Language Researcher: "Do not focus so much on language learning." | Dr. Jeff McQuillan

[@jackuzzi5251]

Reading reading reading. What I find happens is I go from mentally translating to just understanding the words as I do in English. This has to be done with an understanding of basic pronunciation so you are reading with the correct pronunciation going on inside your head. Then when practicing listening, the translating quagmire dissolves and pronunciation becomes the inherent function. As for the initial basic pronunciation, I found beginner books using syllable breakdown very useful. I will add. when beginning reading it is important to understand word order which is likely different from one's mother tongue. Be prepared for long periods of frustration, but I believe research has shown language learning comes in jumps. You literally go from not being able to understand what you read, to overnight suddenly "getting" it.

[@cpnlsn88]

I think reading has a special place because it's such a versatile tool. ABR = Always Be Reading. If you can read a bit at a low level then you can read more at a low level, then a lot.There's so much grammar and syntax that needs to be abosrbed and reading is really the only way to do this. For German - reading text at a low level of simplicity will give you the case system, irregular verbs, sentence structure, plurals and basic dialogue. This is a good way to learn such things and in fact it's the ony way to really learn these (in my view). Reading is a very complex skill. At a good level of fluiduty it entails predictive ability (we read ahead without knowing we're doing it) fast recognition - many words are recognised 'at a glance' and are decoded automatically. Listening has a different flow. Literally it just goes past and hopefully you make sense of it (you can of course repeat, use subtitles and pause, read a transcript). With reading you can slow down, re-read things etc. I think you take in a whole sentence in one moment. There are people who can learn well without much reading which is great but I think most would benefit from reading if good material can be found. ChatGPT can help in producing texts with low vocab and complexity. That is what we need especially early in learning. I don't hear much about this, but at some point there was interest in adapting novels so that obsolete or rare words could be replaced to make them more readable with little loss of the story. Similarly, where there is a case system word order becomes much more felxible. But there is nothing to stop material for learners to follow English (or other L1) order so the learner is not overwhelmed.

[@AllenSims.ShaSuperstar]

Thanks 🙏🏾

[@ariuwg4186]

👏🏿Thank you for your wisdom! Omg

[@jonatasmoraes2716]

What books do you suggest?

[@PhuongTran-hm4dy]

I found this episode deeply resonating. There are so many things I have developed understanding of through all the years I’ve worked as a teacher but can’t put them into words. And you two totally spoke my mind out. It’s a blessing for me and those who are working in the language teaching business.

[@ticobrasilcrz]

Dr Jeff Mcquillan was the first person I start to listen and understand English years ago. I’m so grateful to him.

[@fernandomarquez365]

I have a PhD in science (but I speak 4 languages) and I have dedicated myself to researching languages ​​in the real world and what I mean is that studying any language is being very patient and studying every day (THERE IS NO LEVEL BECAUSE YOU ARE ALWAYS LEARNING SOMETHING NEW), nobody knows for sure what happens in the world of languages ​​because it depends on the desire you have to learn and your goals, I continue improving my languages ​​and I would never dare to say that it was easy because I have NEVER stopped studying. What always helps you is a good mentor and a very good one because when you have to work on your pronunciation, accent reduction, spelling etc etc he has to know how to help you.

[@xiaocuiliu1250]

How to learn

[@KeanuGao]

I agree. I had a fantastic mentor, and he had been teaching me for 3 years during COVID. Now I feel like my English level has dropped.

[@marcksuarez]

Spot on. I gree with you in all. I have no phD at all yet so I could learn (Im learning still) my second one this's EsL now Im going get my third language (german) you know learning another language is not easy but is not impossible cuz where there is a will there's a way. Tschüss

[@dandantin]

Four languages? Congrats. I am still trying to learn one language rsrs

[@kasforai]

I've PhD too buddy

[@claudiaj27]

I really like a person like Dr. McQuillan who is extremely easy to understand when he explains to you any topic. He made this very easy for me. Thanks so much for the video.

[@loistalagrand]

Glad it was helpful!

[@ivanrevkov843]

Thank you, Lois. Jeff is a wonderful teacher, I really enjoyed his podcast from beautiful California. I've always recommended his podcast to many other people. Being a teacher of English myself, I really appreciate your time and effort to show the Giants of EFL. Let the light shine on and on.

[@shakenbacon-vm4eu]

Basically: get some basics of the language (so sit down and study), and watch a lot of tv/movies/podcasts/music. Cuz the first part of comprehensible input is getting some basics in.

[@arccosinusopinion2323]

Movies are not going to be comprehensible for a long period of time

[@juanlaigret7919]

I agree, it won’t be a great idea to start with movies or tv shows…

[@fernandogarcia148]

@@arccosinusopinion2323 Until they are. That's the whole point of this video. Exposure from as many sources as possible -regardless of difficulty - as much time as you can . That's how I learned english. I'Ve never touched an academic english book, nor have I taken english classes.

[@arccosinusopinion2323]

@@fernandogarcia148 well, you missed the point then. The point was to gradually increase the difficulty

[@Kitiwake]

I started French vocab and pronunciation with children's KZbin stories and songs. Btw, Just because it's children's didn't mean that it didn't require effort.

[@eschiedler]

I haved used Ai tools, for example, ChatGPT, etc, to great introductory level stories for comprehensible input. I tell the AI to act as a language teacher, give it the paramaters of the story, and then edit the story to my level in the language. For a three paragraph input in English I can generate a 500 word story. I can generate story material that is interesting. And fairly accurate, I can cross-reference the result with other AI translation tools. Those additional tools can read the story to me or I can read it out loud. They are low data text files that I can review over and over.

[@loistalagrand]

Thanks for sharing

[@gregmcnair4272]

I also do that with new vocabulary I've garnered from other reading material. I'll take 10 to 15 words and give Chatgpt an assignment: Write a short, simple story for me using these words in any tense. In this way I'm learning and reinforcing vocab in context.

[@raventracer3760]

Most of these interviews seem to envision solitary adults without raising the subject of learning (never mind acquiring) a language in secondary school environments. If you're teaching English to classes of 25-35 French teenagers, many from disadvantaged backgrounds, with widely divergent levels (OK, so I'm going to need four or five different sources of comprehensible input per group?), and you see them for between 90 minutes and three hours each week, and you have a six-level European ranking structure looming over it all that the vast majority of students, for their respective years, fall well short of, and you can't even assign certain types of homework anymore because ChatGPT...what to do? Especially because you can't give five (or even two or three) different levels of tests? Oh, and by the way, the French teacher training is hellbent on a communication-is-king method that mixes TBL and implicit or constructivist methods, so heaven forfend that the teacher explicitly instruct them about anything, especially grammar, or, at the end of day, that the teacher even open their mouth and "steal" (yes, one trainer actually said "voler") the students' own speaking time? Shouldn't the students just "discover" it all for themselves? The French system abandoned grammar decades ago and a government-commissioned study showed that the levels are even worse. Long story short: if you want to get anything done, you do need some explicit instruction, you do need some grammar (it makes them feel more secure -- and it actually does yield results), you cannot rely on fashionable "metareading" strategies where the kids jump through paratextual hoops and identify place names and transparent words and connect the dots in a happy constructivist utopia, and never mind the value of a text as actual literature, because they often don't even have the French vocabulary to begin with! At the same time, one can't just wait around two or three years for CI to weave its magic when there is testing to be done. One needs to get out of this notion that immersion is everything and that EFL is not a different kettle of fish, in many ways, from ESL. The only thing that these kids are immersed in is TikTok. One could, in principle, just have them use their smartphones during each class and read/listen to a text appropriate for their level, but wouldn't that just feed their addiction? Alternatively, we could just say that the conditions aren't there to have any meaningful progression, so just give up... My colleagues and I feel like we're reinventing the wheel. It's a great challenge, and sometimes a lot fun, but it appears that there's a whole untapped field here that no one is addressing. I personally feel that some of the solution does lie in differentiation aided by AI, but I would like to see more exchanges of ideas with people who are in the trenches and not just talking about CI and apps for grown-ups.

[@andyli619]

An awesome interview.It is informative and good for my English acquisition🎉🎉🎉

[@brirothert]

Thank you for this video which mirrors everything I found out whilst acquiring languages myself during the past few decades. Actually, I found the tools you're wishing for in some cases - but not for everything I want, of course. Early on (around 1990) I already purchased books for Spanish, Italian and French with drawings in them. Just as you said, they merely gave the essentials and no translations! In 2022/23 I searched for easy stories with accompanying text to be able to read along with the story telling and at the same time being able to look at a relating little film or some insightful pictures. I found that for a few languages, but, alas, not for all I want to learn. But there's certainly *something* already there!

[@loistalagrand]

Thanks for sharing!

[@drmoezawaung]

Eslpod is my favorite, back in 2007 . Best wishes to him and Dr Lucy Tse.

[@ivanmontes9645]

Hi! I’m really enjoying this conversation, and I’d like to share that I’m a blind language learner. Unfortunately, you haven’t provided me with a solution for using comprehensible input as a beginner. I was monolingual until I was 33 1/2 years old, when I started learning English. At first, I had no choice but to study vocabulary because of my blindness. Later, I was able to begin using comprehensible input. This year, I’ve started learning German, and I’m approaching it the same way: studying vocabulary with Duolingo. When I reach the intermediate level, I plan to start using comprehensible input too-unless you have any advice, keeping in mind that I’m blind. Either way, I’m very grateful and happy because this video has helped me a lot. Greetings from Argentina.

[@loistalagrand]

In terms of getting comprehensible input, I would definitely take a look at the Innovative Language websites (GermanPod101, in your case). I'm not sure how user-friendly they are if you are blind. However, you could get a GermanPod101 subscription, and listen to all the podcasts that they have.

[@ivanmontes9645]

@@loistalagrand "If they provide a transcript of the audios, that would be helpful for me because I use a screen reader. Actually, that’s how I’ve been acquiring English up until now. But I need to check whether they have audios for beginners or not - you know, audios with basic vocabulary and verb repetition. Many thanks anyway! I'll definitely check it out. Warmest regards and thanks for answering me.

[@loistalagrand]

@@ivanmontes9645 They do have full transcript for all the lessons. They also have tons of levels (complete beginner, beginner, up to advanced).

[@waynelb5805]

I'm always impressed with how well you have developed your English Lois!

[@loistalagrand]

Thanks!

[@JohnsonNong]

recently i found reading is really useful to improve my fluency in spoken English, especially reading the books that the style of expressions is naturally conversational.

[@chapterme]

Chapters (Powered by ChapterMe) - 00:00 - Intro: Dr. McQuillan 02:20 - Unconscious language acquisition 03:24 - Child vs. adult language learning 05:41 - Comprehensible input importance 07:50 - Defining comprehensible input 10:10 - Beginner-level comprehensible input 12:14 - Leveraging known language 14:23 - AI-generated language content 17:56 - Comprehensible and interesting material 21:18 - Consistency in language acquisition 24:54 - Technology and language learning 28:52 - Ideal language learning course 32:22 - Hours needed for fluency 36:58 - Visual aids in language learning 39:51 - AI-generated learning materials 45:03 - Format of the course 46:15 - Outro

[@derekofbaltimore]

The problem with discussions around comprehensive input (which i do myself and love) is the ptesenter often makes it seem like intentional study is a waste of time when its clear both work. It forms a rivalry when it needn't be that way

[@ivanmontes9645]

Well, the same thing happened to me. Actually, I’ve used both methods to learn English. At first, I had no choice but to study vocabulary because I’m blind. Once I managed to reach an intermediate level, I started using comprehensible input to acquire English. Now, I can tell you that, even though neither my friends nor my relatives speak English and I haven’t been able to afford a teacher, I can still express myself in English in a pretty understandable way. So, my conclusion is that I’ve had to use the traditional method of learning and then comprehensible input to reach fluency. Of course, I still make grammar and pronunciation mistakes, but I can communicate effectively in English.

[@Alec72HD]

I can discuss this in more details, but here is a quick overview. Learning L2 (target language) grammar using L1 (native language) is extremely INEFFICIENT. I am not saying it's completely useless, but should be kept to a minimum. The goal is to reach a level where you can learn L2 grammar WITHOUT any explanations in L1. Studying L2 grammar like a native speaker school student could be very useful. Though, Not for everyone and not absolutely necessary.

[@derekofbaltimore]

@@Alec72HD Maybe (and Im not out to defend either method) but id honestly love to see a controlled experiment , with dedicated learners, before labeling one or the other "extremely inefficient" "the goal is to reach a level where you can learn L2 grammar without any explanation" well yes, but how do you reach that level is the question.

[@LeeSohlden]

@@ivanmontes9645 In my experience, being blind does not hinder using comprehensible input. Yes, you have to find a teacher, or a system that teaches those first words to you. A more pressing problem is this - finding a teacher who can communicate to you in your native language. If you'd like to try to learn a language, using comprehensible input, I'd be glad to coach you thru that. I teach lots of languages, from the 4 main latin languages, many germanic languages, and many others. Its just a hobby for me. Let me know.

[@ivanmontes9645]

@@LeeSohlden Hi my friend, First of all, allow me to apologize for not seeing your comment earlier. Regarding my English learning journey, yes indeed, as you said, my blindness hasn’t prevented me from using comprehensible input to learn English. Let me tell you, at the beginning I had to learn vocabulary by using apps like Duolingo and Babbel. Then, I started using audiobooks for English learners. When I started doing so, I began to enjoy English much more. I’ve always loved stories, and with them, my learning process has been much more compelling. Nowadays, I listen to many podcasts about scientific dissemination, philosophy, literature, sports, and other subjects I’m passionate about. Unfortunately, practicing output has been much harder. As I said before, I haven’t had enough money to pay for a teacher. The situation here in my country is awful-especially for disabled people. I can’t remember how many times I’ve applied for a job up to now. I’m entitled to a pension, but of course, it’s not enough. What’s more, I’m aware that if I had a chance, I would perform as well as everybody else, not to mention my pride as a human being. But well… I don’t want to bore you, so getting back to our previous topic, I’ve been practicing my speaking with ChatGPT and Meta AI. Duolingo also has a version that’s not very expensive here, where you can have a video call with a character named Lily along with role-plays. In short, AI enables me to communicate much more fluently and confidently. You are very kind to offer me help with my German. But as I said, I’m not able to afford any fee unfortunately. Nevertheless, I’ll keep your username because if I’m able to have a language coach in the future, I’ll try to contact you. I started studying German a few months ago, and I’m going to try to do the same things I’ve done with my English so far. Warmest regards from Quilmes, Buenos Aires. My best wishes to you and your loved ones.

[@adilsonnascimento3833]

Thanks for the class!! I enjoyed a lot!!

[@chrystele-fr]

Yes Loïs you are right finding interesting and comprehensive input is a huge challenge. When I moved to the United States I wanted to become fluent so I stopped to watch or read anything in my native language to focus on my English acquisition.

[@loistalagrand]

It's a lot easier to find good stuff if you are learning English!

[@qiangjiao1274]

Hi Lois, I really like the way you interact with the language researchers, especially the questions you conducted. I'd like to share with you a question: "For a child, say about 6 years old, who wants to learn English as Second language. How to apply the strategies you shared? Schools these days still utilize the traditional way of teaching English." What do you think of the question? Hope the message can find you.

[@loistalagrand]

I'll keep this as a possible question for future interviews.

[@philipdavis7521]

Please create this course! It would be amazing. I actually tried to persuade a friend of mine, who has an AI start-up to do this. But I couldn’t persuade him that there was a market for a pure input based language course.

[@loistalagrand]

What kind of content do you think people would like?

[@philipdavis7521]

@@loistalagrand Thats really hard to say, its such a personal thing. But I think the simplest material would be commentary on visually interesting videos - one or two people discussing a popular tiktok, for example, explaining what is going on.

[@elenaekanathapetrova2282]

I also recommend you to pay attention to two channels one is Input English and second is English input. it will be really interesting to see their owners as a guest one day. both of them create comprehensible input for English learners and I'm sure they really will be happy to cooperate with other content creators

[@talkativeacademy4528]

Excellent interview. Dr McQuillan, you're doing God's work. I think I could sit and talk with you for hours!

[@jesse_ledesma]

Explicit knowledge is constructed when we are task-focused, whereas implicit is constructed when we are meaning-focused. Both kinds of knowledge have benefits and limitations. Learners need to know about this distinction in order to guide their learning. The input/ouput or memorization/immersion debate hasn't reached any meaningful conclusions because it isn't incorporating the entirety of our understanding of how our brains store information. Both sides of the debate are speaking truth, yet they are unaware of what that truth is.

[@noquit739]

Wow, I can't agree enough with the speaker 🤭 I am learning Finnish language and everything about it, I already passed the level competency up to the A2 level and going to get A2.2 but when I watch a Finnish movie or a news or listening a song lyrics, I can't hardly understand it all😅 I'm struggling and I need to examine every word's declensions using the sanakirja (dictionary) and it's so tedious for me.

[@dalejohnson2682]

I think the idea of comprehensible input is often handicapped. If you listen to a news broadcast in the target language that is incomprehensible, then you can go through the transcript and use intensive reading methodology, then listen repeatedly until the audio becomes relatively comprehensible. So comprehensible input does not have to be only through extensive means, but also through intensive means. And this is how many people use the Harry Potter series learn to languages.

[@Communicate_Language_Teaching]

This is so useful. Making my teaching brain get excited.

[@PRColacino]

In my experience additionaly to images we need more real dialogs. Nobody learn to speak reading texts in 3rd person, descriptive or narrative. We need conversations!

[@LeeSohlden]

This is true to a point. But, if you learn from me, which is from natural language acquisition, you will in short order do three things - absorb the entire vocabulary of the language, be able to pronounce everything correctly, and understand the language when you hear it. Then its up to you to find someone to talk to. At this point, change up the videos you are listening to, to conversations, if you can. But hey, three huge skills, for conversation, are knowing the vocabulary, having a good ear for the language, and being able to pronounce all the words right. What is missing, is experience. Conversational videos / audiobooks will help with that, but you still have to actually have conversations. (and even there, you can practice by talking to yourself, carrying out both ends of the conversation, if that is the only way you can find to practice.)

[@nidhishshivashankar4885]

I find subtitles & parallel texts are great “extra linguistic cues” and that they don’t have to be purely visual or contextual to be effective

[@LinhNguyen-pn2op]

Thank you so much!

[@myonedayhops]

Unfortunately we're all in the system where teachers and students are forced to follow a certain curriculum to pass the exam. A lot of exams are grammar/vocab based. It's not just kids at school. Very often adults have to "certify" their level to be able to get a job or whatever their purpose is. So we're forced to prepare them for exams. That's why my ideal students are those who learn for themselves and don't need to pass any exam. Then the teaching/learning process is so much more fun

[@loistalagrand]

This would be ideal

[@learning2read]

Right. I have a language school for children in Taiwan. Most parents use the public school results of their children as a way to measure progress. Most public schools test grammar and vocabulary because that's relatively easy to measure. It's the metric most parents know and understand. If their children aren't getting good results at school, it's difficult for them to be accepted into good schools or universities.

[@KrstK-qp9zz]

The question is how to find these new words where we know a let's say, 2000 words, new words won't be so often in these texts, until I will see them again, I will forget about them, and if you say something for the first time, you can guess what this word means, but you can guess wrong...

[@Alec72HD]

Depends on what is your goal. If you want to reach an advanced level in a second language then avoid using your native language in any way during learning of L2. Use monolingual dictionaries.

[@gidmanone]

Comprehensible Input is a religion at this point. They never tell you how long the method typically takes to reach fluency. My recommendation is to pair it with explicit grammar study. It's the best combination. There is absolutely no reason not to do it.

[@elenaekanathapetrova2282]

sometimes a lot of people told you how long it takes but in reality not all get it in this period. it's depends on the people so I think it's realistic It don't give you any expectation about it it depends on your efforts and time spending with the language and a lot of other factors that sometimes even hard to count

[@stevencarr4002]

Jeff pairs it with explicit grammar study in his KZbin videos where he says things like '"We more often hear this word as an adjective timid TI M I D if someone is timid someone is a little bit afraid someone is lacking confidence they don't have courage to do something"' Here he explains the concept of 'adjective'.

[@hsitz]

You must have missed that section of the video, starting at roughly @42:00 in and going for several minutes. McQuillan says several things: (1) there are so many variables it's impossible to say anything about how long things take with any degree of precision, (2) rough rule of thumb would be that focussing comprehensible input for 500 hours might get a person to high-level beginner or low-level intermediate proficiency, and (3) in any case focussing on comprehensible input will be much faster than a method that focuses on traditional "learning" of grammar, vocabulary, etc.

[@goldmund2902]

I started learning Greek a year ago by basically just going for comprehensible input. Now I am reading Harry Potter and I am stunned how easy it is. I barely have problems understanding each part. I even came to visit Greece and was able to hold conversations - with many mistakes and a lot of help from the natives of course but nevertheless actual conversations that were not on superficial touristy topics. So when it comes to my experience, it doesn't take much time at all. Actually I am stunned how far I've come in such a short time. Even without reaching a point where I wouldn't enjoy the process.

[@nidhishshivashankar4885]

The reason not to do it is that it’s redundant for those who can understand it and useless for those who can’t. You’re confusing an indicator of performance with performance.

[@sunwoojang6888]

I like your video and interview style.

[@loistalagrand]

Thanks for watching!

[@endalkachewtesfaye2419]

What an informative video and Guru!

[@andresgomezmikan5849]

Really interested talk! Keep it up!

[@loistalagrand]

Thanks!

[@allafleche]

about the missing apps : imho the problem is not that it's technically challenging or that no one had the idea but more that it requires a lot of effort and money to be able to provide the good stories, with illustrations also, and in lots of languages. but that would be great indeed

[@adonasbuhr2784]

Finally an interview with somebody who is not smug.

[@Kevin-k8u1m]

Man as a former teacher he is so correct on the subject of learning any topic period, i was challenged so much by my younger students 16-24 as to my older students 18-70 the learning environments was that much different because my younger students were not aspiring to be they just was; my older student were consciously aspiring to be. They my older student's were so cerebral they couldn't learn, the younger students were straight to the point and they were saying and showing if you want me to learn something you want to teach me then show me. 🤯 Life changing once i came to understanding what was going on so much so i quit teaching to become a teacher instead of teaching literature that has a low efficacy rate in translating from unknown to known. He is definitely a jewel in a crown Dr Mcquillan and sadly a needle in a haystack seeking to be acquired so that you can't find him. Thank you Lois for bring him to us because there is force out there that intend to bury him alive.

[@loistalagrand]

Glad you enjoyed the iterview!

[@tatalama8193]

So insightful. thank you so much.

[@batsoup7031]

I saw a post on reddit the other day saying FSI used mostly comprehensible input to teach Spanish. I gather from that post and even this interview that what FSI does is in flux.

[@Reflekt0r]

This was a really good episode, thank you!

[@khalidimohamedfadel2048]

Continue! God bless you......

[@loistalagrand]

Thanks!

[@Flortaffa]

I really wanna learn english and so many other languages i know that it means that you have to learn and not memorize things like words vocabulary but it takes time,im trying to learn more words in english,10 per day,im 17 years old

[@desiobu]

32:00 there are actually some large image-text pair datasets (eg LAION) the captions of which could be translated for this purpose

[@vforvalorant1019]

RE the hours thing: I learned German purely through comprehensible input plus Anki, and it took me 6 months to get from not-quite-zero (I remembered a handful of words from school and had the most vague general feel for what order the words have in a simple sentence) to testing into the second half of the B2 course. Which for reference meant that I was struggling a bit but getting through books like Harry Potter and could understand well basically any German KZbin video that wasn't intensely political or full of specialised terminology. I'm now struggling a bit more with levantine dialect Arabic because of the lack of resources, so I think I'm going to work a bit with chat GPT. It doesn't do amazingly well with generating whole Arabic texts but I can just use the few resources I have and ask it for word lists and example sentences and things.

[@DAODUYDONGmini]

Very insightful

[@MrMohaxi]

Great interview. Finally my gut level hatred for classroom language learning is scientifically justified!

[@dudeinthecrowd]

I am glad to read insightful comments below.

[@johnjallen]

So many hours of comprehensible input of German and can still barely speak it. Can read and listen at at least B2 but can barely speak at B1. I simply don’t believe that only reading helps us speak. Reading will help listening and reading but will barely help speaking. Speaking will lag way behind. Like years behind. Two levels behind at least

[@loistalagrand]

Thanks for sharing! For how long have you been getting input in German?

[@HoraryHellfire]

Reading doesn't help much with speaking, correct. Listening helps much more than reading in order to speak.

[@Alec72HD]

It is only natural to understand more L2 passively than being able to produce actively. Unless you want to be like some tourist who only learned a few phrases and can repeat them, but has zero comprehension. It's fairly common for L2 learners to reach a level where they understand EVERYTHING, at least on par with average native speakers. But not too many can produce L2 that will pass for a Native Speech.

[@profhippo1]

The truth is, any one-sided theory falls short. Naturally, there’s an interface between learning and acquisition, and the two must go hand in hand in foreign language learning. It should also be clear that consciously learning grammar helps you monitor and refine your output. McQuillan, however, seems to reveal a lack of firsthand experience with mastering a foreign language.

[@Zkennk]

Really i liked this video. Thanks for this content.

[@loistalagrand]

Glad you liked it

[@omarperezprada]

Great interview

[@loistalagrand]

Thanks

[@reginaldosilvasantos8853]

Thanks!

[@ЮрийЕлистратов-м9ь]

How many languages does he speak himself?

[@Alec72HD]

Doesn't really matter, he is primarily an English teacher. But he had experience learning a second language, so he understands the process of SLA firsthand. Do you know how to say Raccoon in Russian? Yeah ? Not ? Ochen horror-show.

[@vogditis]

Really, anyone off the street can become a Spanish teacher, or you still need to know Spanish, which most people learn from an early age. He started by introducing himself, stating his titles at the beginning of the interview, and the interview can end there. Such videos do not show an adult without the language becoming a language teacher after a few years of training. They talk and talk about some abstract things without any evidence. Language is learned in childhood and an adult cannot go back to childhood, further is already a useless waste of time.

[@kirianaskystudio]

​@@Alec72HD Ochen horror-show is very good - Очень хорошо. Raccoon is "енот" in Russian

[@timwoods3173]

Thank you

[@teach-learn4078]

Great, very interesting. It's not so much I disagree with this professor, but wouldn't this be in a larger learning strategy plan of some directed learning activities and evaluation? I'm thinking in particular of the I guess now-discredited or definitely underappreciated strategy of sentence substitution practicing. I say this bcs I asked a friend of mine who is a highly expert language working as simultaneous interpreter to point to a method or strategy he used. btw he had already organized the understandable input by working in a restaurant where only that language was spoken, for five years. AFTER and ALONGSIDE the understandable input, he recommended those drills or practice pieces where a sentence is repeated with one element e.g. the subject changed. He approached it like learning scales to be a necessary but also fun and fascinating part of learning an instrument, even though ultimately the goal is to communicate.

[@Minimmalmythicist]

It´s a tricky one as to whether the difference between Adults and Children is to do with ability or if it´s environmental. I myself tend towards the ability end, but environment does play a role. I´ve taught adults who have no language learning experience and it is much harder for them, they tend to fossilise a lot more quickly. I also do see real individual differences between people. Some people just learn everything you teach them wrong and even the best language teachers can´t get much out of them.

[@Alec72HD]

What is the difference between adults and children when it comes to language learning? Adults have a fully developed native language and children don't. Fully developed L1 dominates adult's consciousness, it simply gets in the way and prevents a formation of a Second Language. Children, have less of a resistance from the First Language because it's not yet fully developed. Adults CAN learn L2 as fast as children when Native language L1 is completely suppressed. Middlebury Language school uses that approach by not allowing any use of L1 for the duration of 8 week study course.

[@Minimmalmythicist]

@@Alec72HD Ok, fair hypothesis, but there´s no good evidence for it. For starters kids by the time they are 5,6 or 7 unless they have grave developmental disorders, do have fully fledged language competence. As for "complete supression", there´s plenty of evidence it´s impossible to do this (see Vivian Cook) and our brains use more or less the same circuitry for both languages. The evidence is actually against total immersion being the best way to learn too for beginners (see Krashen), it´s more that you need to get a source of comprehensible input that you enjoy.

[@Alec72HD]

@@Minimmalmythicist It's not that children are not good at their First Language, it's not as dominant in their psyche. For a 5-10 year old, it's not even their Native language, not yet. Languages COMPETE for attention like in the allegory of The Two Wolves. And I know firsthand that 24/7 immersion with complete L1 abstinence allows adults to learn as fast as immigrant children can. It feels like magic. As an adult I progressed from A1 to C1 in the first year. I can prove it.

[@Minimmalmythicist]

@@Alec72HD yeah sorry that's rubbish. Read some applied lingüísticas research

[@Minimmalmythicist]

@@Alec72HD that you went from A1 to C1 may be true but what you say about language acquisition has been disproved

[@TopSpinWilly]

Im at 7:48 minut mark & im impressed. Not so much that its all new to me.. some is, but it's well put and very usable. Great interview. Well thought out Qs.🎉

[@loistalagrand]

Thanks

[@TopSpinWilly]

Interesting. Here is his chatgpt prompt answered.. its a good start. Let's start with some simple phrases and basic words. I'll introduce greetings, pronouns, and basic questions, which are essential for beginners. 1. Greetings Hola - Hello Buenos días - Good morning Buenas tardes - Good afternoon Buenas noches - Good evening / Good night 2. Basic Pronouns Yo - I Tú - You (informal) Él / Ella - He / She Nosotros / Nosotras - We (masculine / feminine) Ellos / Ellas - They (masculine / feminine) 3. Basic Questions ¿Cómo estás? - How are you? ¿Qué tal? - What's up? ¿Dónde está...? - Where is...? ¿Cuánto cuesta? - How much does it cost? 4. Useful Phrases Por favor - Please Gracias - Thank you De nada - You're welcome Lo siento - I'm sorry Start practicing these in short conversations. Let me know if you want more words or phrases!

[@vesimitta]

Are the timestamps accurate? I watched the section "Flashcards and intentional learning". Flashcards weren't mentioned, were they? An interesting interview nevertheless.

[@FrenchKanKanSlowFrench]

If you are looking for French Comprehensible input ... I make some !

[@hebozhe]

Those two circles DO intersect. That's literally been my life's work since 2014.

[@JemaShewa]

it is vital advice

[@joseangeljimenezruiz674]

Muy interesante gracias.

[@myonedayhops]

Thanks 👍

[@UnShredded]

But but dr McQuillan, I have a short visa, limited budget and if I want to immigrate to this country, I need to achieve X proficiency by such and such date. The only way to demonstrate my language ability in X amount of time is such and such test, so what do you say about assessment?

[@allafleche]

About the two groups of ppl that 'ever meet: programmers and languists : isn't lingq the app that was supposed to be exactly wjat he he talking about ??

[@NewStory31]

the efective way to learn any language is to living with the society who speaks this langague.

[@gomito5000]

I agree language learning methods need to give more space to absorbing comprehensible input and giving the brain time to do its thing but, saying everything else is useless as they seem to be implying is like throwing the baby with the bathwater, and sounds a bit too much like "learn this one simple trick to learn languages without effort!" snake oil We are not children so we don't have the advantage of endless time and attention plus having everyone around us invested in getting us to learn - but we have the advantage of analytical thinking and many time tested learning techniques so why not leverage that? We sure don't need to internalise the whole grammar of a language before taking a step, but if i see a verb construction or whatever more than once and I don't get how it works, looking it up quickly definitely enhances my learning, and so do flashcards and spaced repetition

[@Alec72HD]

I can discuss this in more details, but here is a quick overview. Learning L2 (target language) grammar using L1 (native language) is extremely INEFFICIENT. I am not saying it's completely useless, but should be kept to a minimum. The goal is to reach a level where you can learn L2 grammar WITHOUT any explanations in L1. Studying L2 grammar like a native speaker school student could be very useful. Though, Not for everyone and not absolutely necessary.

[@synguyennguyen6638]

Great!

[@grahamchiu2817]

it's not adequately explained why you need images to convey CI. If you don't speak the same language as the learner, then yes, I can see you might need imagery, but if the language learner and teacher both speak the same language why bother with images?

[@loistalagrand]

This is just an example of a cue. However, I agree that I should have asked for more examples.

[@grahamchiu2817]

@@loistalagrand In TPRS 2.0, I believe the local language and target language are both displayed on the same blackboard, web page or whatever.

[@ConspiracyCraftersStudio]

The more context you have around the world when hearing it the more solid comprehension is. As a CI learner of Spanish i can say this method works

[@Alec72HD]

​​@@loistalagrand Because Comprehensible Input (in L2) should NOT involve Native Language L1. If we use Native language it becomes the old Grammar/ Translation method. And learning L2 through translation to L1 is extremely INEFFICIENT. Sure, beginners often have little choice but to use translation to get started. But it's INEFFICIENT and a better study course could be created that is entirely in L2. The added benefit is that anyone can use it regardless of their L1. I think that's what Jeff had in mind, because bilingual (translation) courses have been around for decades. If you are interested, I can logically prove that any use of native language is extremely detrimental in the process of acquiring L2.

[@HoraryHellfire]

Here is the adequate explanation. The brain is a "pattern recognition" machine that processes sensory input data (touch, taste, hear, sight, smell) and stores them into neurons to connect to other related neurons. Connecting words to images, or particularly any of the senses, will create stronger or more abundant connections than just translation. Though, imagery is not the only thing that can provide context, as sight is only one of the five senses. The key is to use as many senses as you can to connect the word to its meaning, and in multiple DIFFERENT but similar contexts. A good example is this. Imagine you are walking along a path right next to the beach. People walk up to you and say "can you guess what these MADE UP words mean while blindfolded for $20?". You agree and they blindfold you. The first thing they do is say the word "Ogluh" out loud. You shake your head no and then they say "we give you three chances, not using sight". They say "Ogluh" and then hand you an object. It's kinda pointy, feels a little cold but not quite metallic. Almost ceramic, but not quite. You ask them "is it a small lamp?" and they inform you that's incorrect. "That was your first chance". They now say the word "Ogluh" once more, but this time they put it close to your ear, and you hear something similar to the ocean, but faintly. By this point, you should now know that this is a seashell. This experience is quite personal, and you likely wouldn't forget it if it actually happened, and the word "Ogluh" might stick in your mind. This can happen for ANY word or really anything. Our 5 senses are tied very strongly to memory. Remembering an abstract idea or an explanation is nowhere close to as strong or prominent for recall than having heard, felt, and seen something. It's best to utilize what our brains are already great at. The brain is great at pattern recognition, especially with its own 5 senses. Yeah, it's great to read a new word in a riveting novel that I'm reading, but it's even better to remember or understand at all if there's some more context clues like images, sounds, touch, etc etc.

[@paulwalther5237]

I might try using AI just to translate these English graded readers into different languages. Sure you don’t get the cultural education but you can get that elsewhere. And having a familiar culture setting makes it easier and even feel more relevant.

[@loistalagrand]

Good idea

[@vogditis]

For instance, I've been learning second Russian since I was a child, and I've watched a lot of Russian TV since then. I also studied it for about 10 years in school. I don't like using my second Russian writing comments in Russian blogs because it's not as strong as my native language. I haven't been able to bridge the gap between my languages with comprehensible input. If you don't have a high-level second language, you don't have an inferiority complex. The most similar scientists, like this "professor," talk about the dream world. Listening to a language is the easiest part of any language in the world until I have to use that language to communicate in it.

[@Alec72HD]

Do you know how to say Raccoon in Russian? Yeah ? Not ? (... Енот.) Horror show. Хорошо. Coke dealer. Как дела. Cast ruler. a cooking pot. Stall. A table. Hollow dill nick. A refrigerator. 😅 Such an easy language.

[@vogditis]

​@@Alec72HD If I hadn't learned English in an English-speaking country, I wouldn't know much about that country. My second language, Russian, is more advanced than similar English. However, my second language is less sensitive to word order than my native language, which can lead to confusion when writing in Russian. These words aren't significant as word order in a sentence.

[@vogditis]

@@Alec72HD As you yourself say about learning a second language, you can't get the real meaning of the word through translation. The only question is whether it is your second language or a foreign language. Stallis ( Latvian), Pferdestall ( German), конюшня( Russian) A barn where a horse is kept

[@Alec72HD]

@@vogditis Stall in English is also a part of a Stable. So a Stable (for horses) is made up of many Stalls. The examples I gave above were only a joke. I don't believe mnemonics is useful.

[@vogditis]

@@Alec72HDYes, a stall is a place in a stable, but in my native language, Latvian, "stallis" means a stable. For me, your joke allows me to pick up some words in English. I started learning it as an adult, which has led to some interesting effects on my English language after many years.

[@Gabu_Dono]

Finding comprehensible input in Japanese can be difficult even at the advanced level, unless you know kanji. Even advanced learners can have difficulty with books for the 5th grade level. Kanji isn’t the only reason though, there are many words in elementary school texts that even advanced learners might not have encountered.

[@vuxuanhuy9079]

I am beginner level A1. I need partner help me practice speaking 😢😢

[@memotv7036]

I'm here

[@vuxuanhuy9079]

@@memotv7036 Do you used discord?

[@vuxuanhuy9079]

@@memotv7036 Do you used discord?

[@AboveRL]

why is it the 64-thousand-dollar question

[@Nailed_It_Tutorials]

10% this is my cut 😅

[@frankgradus9474]

fine words butter no parsnips

[@TheSummmer69]

You will never learn a language as an adult without building vocabulary and studying grammar. You may think you understand, but you don’t. You may think you can speak, and perhaps you can repeat common sentences, but you won’t be able to express your own thoughts. Blank text-fill exercises are useless. Learning English involves listening, reading, writing, and speaking. The more, the better. However, without vocabulary and grammar skills, you will fail.

[@faribaabbasi9802]

🙏

[@adampoludniak7818]

“Same old … hat” can well be worn by the very people who perceive others as wearing one. Language learners are mostly students of “foreign languages” rather than “second ones”. L2 learners start their journey with - and arguably never lose sight of - the genius of their L1. Failure to put L1 at the centre of L2 acquisition/learning is possibly the most unfortunate of our sins in this regard.

[@Alec72HD]

Not sure what exactly are you saying here. Use of Native language is nothing but detrimental for development of a second language.

[@Zoxuk]

Why not focus on language lesrning?

[@ahmetevren9253]

Actually he do not want to say don't focus on learning. He wants to say that you should focus on process of acquisition. My process of acquisition English says same thing as well even ı have been studying only for 5-6 months. Sorry for my mistakes.

[@Zoxuk]

Ah, so it's just that the title of the video is clickbaiting because it says "Do not focus on language learning". Blacklisted either way.

[@dolookecki3084]

As an illustrator I enjoyed this until I reached the image generation part and then I started to cringe a little. This will always be a sensitive topic in the artist community because we were all inside the original Laion database without our consent and the money from users and investors is going to Open AI. Fortunately, we still have reading comprehension in our favor for illustrating textbooks and comics, I wonder how long it will last until we shift to the food service industry to earn our living.

[@loistalagrand]

At this time, if I were to start this project, a good illustrator would do a better job. However, considering the volume of text I would have to generate, it would get really expensive. AI in getting better by the day, which makes me think that the demand for lots of jobs is going to change in drastic ways. Including for programmers, like me.

[@xiaocuiliu1250]

How to learn English very well

[@stevencarr4002]

Has Jeff McQuillan ever learned a language using the methods he recommends? He learnt Spanish at university. In his KZbin videos, Jeff gives explicit instruction such as '"Healthcare h e a l t h c a r e refers to the medical services that people get for their illnesses and diseases"' And "Biracial b i r a c i a l refers to someone who is a member of two or more races" And "Polarized p o l a r i z e d means clearly divided when two groups have very different beliefs or goals" Is that kind of explicit instruction, where you quite literally spell out the meanings of words examples of excellent learning materials?

[@TomRNZ]

Why do the two have to be mutually exclusive? If I'm learning a language and someone gives me an explicit instruction in the language that I'm learning that is made comprehensible to me, isn't that comprehensible input?

[@stevencarr4002]

@@TomRNZ You mean , it is best to learn a language by understanding what is being taught to you? I think you are on a winner there! Jeff learned Spanish with years at university. Has he ever learned a language using the methods he preaches?

[@TomRNZ]

@@stevencarr4002 Anyone who uses comprehensible input or teaches using comprehensible input thinks it's best to understand what is being said. The key word is "comprehensible". It's a teacher's job to make the input comprehensible for the level they are teaching. This may include using things like images or props, etc. The biggest problem I see is that people misunderstand what comprehensible input is. All it is is input that is comprehensible. It doesn't have to be just books, podcasts and movies. I couldn't tell you if Jeff has learnt a language with his methods. You'd have to ask him.

[@TomRNZ]

@@stevencarr4002 I teach English to Spanish speakers using comprehensible input, and yes, sometimes if the student isn't getting the meaning of a word, even after I have tried explaining it several times, if I feel it's important, I may translate it into Spanish. This is not ideal, and I try to avoid it if possible, but if it makes things more comprehensible for the student, so be it. And I can explain anything I want in English to them, whether it be why the ending of words have changed or why I consider The Beatles to be better than The Stones, it doesn't matter. If it's input and it's comprehensible, that's what matters. I'm also not against learning grammar (I know you never said I was, but some people have this misconception that people who use comprehensible input think that grammar is the devil), and I think grammar is important. What I'm against is focusing on grammar. I teach grammar in context, not by drawing conjugation tables and asking students to memorise them or by overanalysing grammar rules. I have a high intermediate level in Spanish, and I've never memorised a word or a conjugation table in my life. If I'm curious about a grammar concept, I might read about it or watch a video about it (always in Spanish), but I won't try and commit it to memory. It's for my own curiousity as a language geek rather than to memorise it as a "rule" I need to know. Grammar "rules" aren't really rules, but observations people have made about the language, which is why most grammar "rules" have a tonne of exceptions, especially in speech. How many native English speakers say things like, "Me and my friend went to the park" instead of "My friend and I went to the park"? Even though "me" is an object pronoun and according to the grammar "rules" it is incorrect, it's still used by a lot of, even well-educated, native English speakers. I'm not 100% sure where Jeff stands on everything related to language learning or teaching, and I'm sure I'll disagree with him on some things, but comprehensible input is extremely important to the point where I can't really understand why anyone disagrees with that. Perhaps an argument could be made that some methods might work faster (I think this may be true in the short term, but I'd say comprehensible input wins long term), and I can certainly appreciate that different people prefer different methods, but I really can't understand why some people seem to be so vehemently against comprehensible input, even if it isn't their preferred method.

[@vogditis]

Children are capable of reaching the highest level of proficiency in their second language, but it will never be at the level of their native language. It works in adolescence for a moderate level in a second language, but as an adult can try to imitate the sound of another language from memorized words in it. When an adult thinks he has learned a new language from scratch...🤣

[@markrand652]

Anyone can acquire an accent, only way to do so is to immerse. Same thing learning a new language I suspect. Immersion

[@stevedavenport1202]

Adults don't learn language the same way as babies. You can't put an adult in a remote Chinese village and expect them to pick up Mandatin through osmosis

[@JJ-hb9in]

Uh yeah that’s the best way. Go to a watering hole in that village and ask people “how do I say X” and joke and have fun.

[@nidhishshivashankar4885]

If what you are saying were true it would be equally impossible for adults to expand their vocabulary in their native language after a certain age

[@arccosinusopinion2323]

Actually you can. Has been proven

[@Alec72HD]

​@@arccosinusopinion2323 Indeed, it can be done. But an adult needs to be completely immersed in a second language 24/7 and have little or no exposure to their native language. I am one example who learned a second language that way exactly as an adult.

[@arccosinusopinion2323]

@@Alec72HD I also know such people. What it essentially means is that you need to break ties with your culture and family

[@michaelfuxeklint4909]

😔😔😔😪

[@OzdeDemiraz]

Always blame the girl friends if u are no good ))

[@olegwiththeknowledge1729]

His spanish is horrendous😂

[@sunshine2272]

비칭 색이야

[@Js2024-dl3dh]

Interviewer zero smile, zero interaction

[@galt82]

He looked very autistic to me.

[@peterwilliams942]

The professor says he is a professional broadcaster yet he uses a cheap poor quality microphone that gives me a headache!