Examining Extra-biblical Sources for Jesus (w/ Gary Habermas)

Is there good evidence for Jesus outside the Bible? How much do sources such as Josephus and Tacitus add to the case for Jesus? Is the Shroud of Turin good evidence? Has Gary Habermas changed his mind about it? These are just a few of the questions we discuss in this interview. We also talk about his pending 4 -volume tome on the resurrection (5,000 words).
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[@SuzyDinglesGarden]

Re: "scratch the bark" seeming odd in Gospel of Thomas (timestamp 9:55 ), perhaps it's not odd at all. We gardeners know to scratch the bark to check for living tissue below. If the cambium layer is alive, that branch will grow. It's a way to discriminate which trees/branches will bear fruit. Sounds familiar. I am reminded to look for Him everywhere, especially below what appears dead. Sometimes the branch is indeed dead, and we know how that spiritual garden story ends! Thank you for the quality of education you provide.

[@Jd-808]

You’re absolutely right! I find scholars have difficulty interpreting Thomas because it’s a mode of thinking they’re not used to being engaged in. Though I think Elaine Pagels does a very good job

[@InfoArtistJKatTheGoodInfoCafe]

Excellent insight. Thanks!

[@TheSulross]

have seen scholars peg an estimate of about 40% of Gospel of Thomas logians being paralleled with Synoptic Gospels Jesus sayings verses And the foundational verse of all of the GT theological perspective - the Kingdom is within us - is found paralleled in the Gospel of Luke.

[@indigatorveritatis8891]

Sean has such a well-developed skill and style of interviewing ... he knows when to let his guests speak and how to keep the discussion moving along and on topic, asking the right questions at the right time. Excellent work

[@megalopolis2015]

What an extraordinary dude. I've been a fan of Gary's for many years. I cannot believe what a dynamo he is. The amount of information from his new book series is so voluminous it's nearly unreal. The fact that he endorses Sean's book is one of the highest honors imaginable. If I could, I would read this stuff forever, but alas, I must do other things.

[@Standing.W.Israel]

Me too, I fou.d him watching debates on Veratas

[@HarryNicNicholas]

he's full of crap. go watch pinecreek eviscerate him. the question was posed (and this was on william lane craig's website in the questions section too) "how many PhD historians have been converted to christianity based on the evidence" - the answer is NONE, but habermas declared he has a list that debunks the claim - this list has NEVER materialized, along with his book that's been promised for at least five years, habermas is another charlatan and it's idiots like sean keep him in business. this is all great stuff for us atheists cos it all contributes to people seeing that religion is for the ignorant and dishonest - check out pew and gallup, you're on the way out.

[@cmacdona7]

Shroud - it would take about six to eight billion watts for one-forty billionth of a second to create the image on the shroud (Dr John Jackson, Dr Paolo DiLazzaro). What medieval forger would have access to that amount of power? It exceeds the total capacity of all excimer ARF lasers in the world today (i.e 14,000).

[@student99bg]

That's the power of 10 nuclear reactors combined. It is twice the power that my entire country consumes during the day when the most power is consumed.

[@DeusVultTKD]

I love Dr. Habermas. He is truly a warrior of God's Kingdom.

[@Dulc3B00kbyBrant0n]

He makes Jesuits mad. Something about promoting early creed and all that xD

[@paulseigeldorf9461]

I had Dr Habermas for a class at Liberty around 1983? 84? I would love to goback and pay better attention. Lol. What a great mind!!!

[@eldin14]

Once these older scholars like Gary are gone, we will be left with no true scholars for Christ...just preachers.

[@spinrocky7558]

Thats not true..the men and women that sit and learn under these gentlemen are no idiots. God has always kept a remnant to carry on the wisdom, understanding, and knowledge.

[@luxliquidlumenvideoproduct5425]

Seemingly there is a danger of this, but it is funny how suddenly out of almost nowhere, you’ll find that the knowledge has been passed on by these scholars and is expounded upon further. Awareness is being raised in all academic arenas pertaining to the Historical Jesus of Nazareth, the study of the Turin Shroud. Challenges to Neo-Darwinism and origins of life research. Fortunately God gives humans wisdom and knowledge… he also gives them the logos, pathos and ethos to argue their assertions with unimaginable authority, grounded in the concretes of absolute truth.

[@Yuyup7334]

​@@spinrocky7558 Yes.

[@Lurkingdolphin]

Peter J Williams in the UK is building up scholars to defend the bible . He is very interested

[@bear7098]

What a darkened academic environment when the skeptics tell you what NT books you can cite! Hats off to anyone who can swim against that tide. Habermas is a favorite of mine. Paul Maier worth checking out also in same vein. They ""swim/swam" with good humor.

[@ramigilneas9274]

Well, half of the letters of Paul are considered to be forgeries that were written after his death. And no, that’s not just the view of some skeptics… most scholars think that. I would say that an academic environment where you have to sign a statement of faith is much much darker and prevents you from evaluating the evidence objectively. This is the statement of faith from Seans website: WE BELIEVE in the Scripture of the Old and New Testament as inspired by God, and inerrant in the original writing. Scripture is the supreme and final authority in faith and life. Scripture is useful to believers for teaching, reproof, correction, and training in righteousness. WE BELIEVE in one God, eternally existing in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. WE BELIEVE in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, His virgin birth, sinless life, miracles, vicarious and atoning death through His shed blood, in His bodily resurrection, and in His ascension to the right hand of the Father. WE BELIEVE that man was created in the image of God, but because of sin, was alienated from God. Only through faith, trusting in Christ alone for salvation, which was made possible by His death and resurrection, are we reconciled to God. WE BELIEVE in the eternal life of the saved and the eternal punishment of the lost. WE BELIEVE the Lord Jesus Christ commanded all believers to make disciples of every nation, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and to teach all that Christ had commanded. WE BELIEVE Jesus Christ will come again to the earth in power and glory both personally and visibly - to consummate history and the eternal plan of God.

[@Standing.W.Israel]

Well what surprises me is that they include ANY of the Bible as "acceptable" scholarly proof.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

he's full of crap. go watch pinecreek eviscerate him. the question was posed (and this was on william lane craig's website in the questions section too) "how many PhD historians have been converted to christianity based on the evidence" - the answer is NONE, but habermas declared he has a list that debunks the claim - this list has NEVER materialized, along with his book that's been promised for at least five years, habermas is another charlatan and it's idiots like sean keep him in business. this is all great stuff for us atheists cos it all contributes to people seeing that religion is for the ignorant and dishonest - check out pew and gallup, you're on the way out.

[@sally9352]

​@Standing.W.Israel why does it surprise you?

[@btbb3726]

Considering what happened in Jerusalem ~70 AD, is it even more surprising that we have some the ancient documents that we do have?

[@danielmalinen6337]

And in addition, the early Christians burned their own libraries in Caesarea, Antioch, Corinth and Alexandria during the Byzantine period, arguing about the true doctrine and the orthodoxy of the religion. Many writings have been lost in it.

[@slumlord72]

These are more than interviews. When I watch them, I feel like I’m sitting with both of you in a coffee shop having an in-depth discussion. Great job!

[@SeanMcDowell]

I love to hear that. That's part of our goal!

[@daa5249]

@@SeanMcDowell Can you be a christian without believing in demons?

[@Roescoe]

@@daa5249 I think not, but it would make a great topic for an interview.

[@daa5249]

@@Roescoe I tend to agree with you. Hard to believe I heard Gary right. I guess he believes people like psychiatrist Dr. Richard Gallagher are some how fooled or are lying. Gallagher has an amazing story about a satanist name Julia. It's a must hear.

[@blugrave4345]

Been reading your books in my masters courses Dr. Habermas. Thank you for everything.

[@christianvichi5808]

I have watched Gary in several videos and everytime is a hit.

[@SeanMcDowell]

He's a great guest!

[@LindeeLove]

@@SeanMcDowell Sean, can you give me just one piece of evidence that you find compelling that convinced you that a man named Jesus spoke our universe into existence? Rising from the dead doesn't prove he created the universe. Just curious.

[@nosh-kami]

I really enjoyed watching this one. Thank you all!

[@midimusicforever]

Awesome, there is so much that points to Jesus!

[@TheSulross]

It really irritates me how the bulk of the serious NT scholars (regardlees of whether they are believers or not) silo themselves away from the Shroud of Turin The law suit that finally prevailed and won access to the carbon 14 raw data, which resulted in a scientifically rigorous critique that through out the carbon 14 dating findings that had put the Shroud origin in the Middle Ages, and at the same time exposed an unseemly scandal involving the British Museum of History - that has changed things most dramatically, because that dating was the crucial thing that had caused the Shroud to be disregarded, and yet now that dating process has been exposed as completely bogus and even motived to be intentionally skewed for scandoulous reasons. And there are the scientific findings on the nature of the image on the Shroud, which our modern technology can't reproduce in like manner on such an expanse of linen cloth. I really appreciate scholars like Bart Ehrman because he has been the most stallwart proponent of the historicity of Jesus against all those that are assailing said historicity, but Bart will never look into the Shroud of Turin. Bart has spent most of his adult life imbued in his atheisim - which he admits he came to that position mostly because of his subjective feelings. But scholars like Bart, that are skeptical or out-right disbelievers, won't look into the Shroud because of an intellectual cowardice to face the conclusions that the Shroud evidence leads us to (i.e., physical evidence of the resurrection event of Yeshua of Nazareth)

[@strangetheology]

Gary Habermas is a legend. His books are awesome! Have you interviewed Louis Markos? Kinda a different take but really interesting.

[@SeanMcDowell]

Yes I have. Louis is great!

[@davethebrahman9870]

I think Habermas probably exists, athough a ‘scholar’ who is wrong about lierally everything does seem unlikely :)

[@heidils8152]

@@davethebrahman9870 what?

[@Mark-cd2wf]

@@heidils8152 Pay no attention to the troll.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

@@SeanMcDowell he's full of crap. go watch pinecreek eviscerate him. the question was posed (and this was on william lane craig's website in the questions section too) "how many PhD historians have been converted to christianity based on the evidence" - the answer is NONE, but habermas declared he has a list that debunks the claim - this list has NEVER materialised, along with his book that's been promised for at least five years, habermas is another charlatan and it's idiots like sean keep him in business. this is all great stuff for us atheists cos it all contributes to people seeing that religion is for the ignorant and dishonest - check out pew and gallup, you're on the way out.

[@MerBlack]

Thankful for the work of Dr. Habermas! Great interview! Grateful for your channel, Dr. McDowell!

[@SeanMcDowell]

Thx!

[@MerBlack]

Dr. Habermas’s Historical Jesus class provided in the Biola Certificate for Apologetics was very impactful! Most certainly one of my favorites! And I checked-out the program due to your promotion of Biola via KZbin.

[@hhstark8663]

The following is a selection of the *non-biblical* documents mentioning Jesus or his movement: a) Celsus, Talmud and ex-polytheist Justin Martyr accept that Jesus performed miracles. b) Josephus and Lucian indicate that Jesus was wise. c) Pliny, Talmud and Lucian indicate that Jesus was a powerful and revered teacher. d) Tacitus, Josephus, Talmud and Lucian all mention that Jesus was crucified. e) Tacitus and Josephus say that the crucifixion occurred under Pontius Pilate. f) Talmud states that it happened on Passover. h) Celsus and Josephus write that Jesus was known as the Messiah and God incarnate. i) Pliny and Lucian indicate that Christians worshiped him as a god. j) Mara bar Serapion suggests that calamity came about in part as a result of the execution of the Wise King of the Jews (meaning Jesus). k) Phlegon indicates (with Thallus indicating something similar) that it was a solar eclipse during the full moon which was accompanied by earthquakes during the reign of the emperor who was in power from 14 to 37 AD. l) Both Tacitus and Suetonius indicate that Christians were punished by the emperor who was in power from 54 to 68 AD. m) The former polytheists Justin Martyr and Tertullian state that the Jews accused the apostles of stealing the body into the 2nd century. This means that the Jews knew that Jesus was dead and that the tomb was empty. n) Josephus wrote that James and John became martyrs. o) The Pilate-stone mentions Pontius Pilate, which is an archeological evidence. p) We have archeological evidence that crucifixion-victims were buried in individual tombs in Judea (for more information see Rachel Hachlili´s book _Jewish Funerary Customs Practices And Rites In The Second Temple Period_ ) Note: The passage about Jesus is present in the reconstructed texts of Josephus. The following is an overview of the sources mentioning Jesus or his movement (beyond the New Testament) : - _Documents by non-Christians:_ Talmud, Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny, Phlegon, Lucian, Celsus, Mara bar Serapion, Suetonius and Thallus. - _Documents by former non-Christians:_ Clement of Rome, Ignatius, Polycarp, Barnabas, Didache, Shepherd of Hermas, Papias, Justin Martyr, Aristides, Athenagoras, Theophilus of Antioch, Quadratus, Aristo of Pella, Melito of Sardis, Diognetus, Epistula Apostolarium and Tertullian.

[@ramigilneas9274]

And that’s why historians think that a historical Jesus most likely existed.

[@zephyr-117sdropzone8]

Don't forget Josephus and Tacitus both report: Armies in the sky, sword-shaped comet in the sky for a year, a bright light in the Holy of Holies in the middle of the night, along with an enormous voice that said "we are leaving" all this a year before the destruction of Jerusalem.

[@markmorris8410]

Another great discussion, Sean! Blessings

[@SpielbergMichael]

In case anyone’s interested: Key numbers to unlock a passage: Key 1 - bless “How BLESSED is he whose wrongdoing is forgiven, Whose sin is covered! How BLESSED is a person whose guilt the Lord does not take into account,” ‭‭Psalms‬ ‭32:1-2‬ ‭ Key 2 - keep “Now unto him that is able to KEEP you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,” ‭‭Jude‬ ‭1:24‬ “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who are KEPT by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” ‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:3-5‬ Key 3 - caused by God “But the Lord has CAUSED the wrongdoing of us all To fall on Him.” ‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭53:6‬ ‭ “This came about from [was caused by] the Lord; It is marvelous in our eyes. This is the day which the Lord has made [caused]; Let’s rejoice and be glad in it. Please, O Lord, do save us; Please, O Lord, do send prosperity! Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord; We have blessed you from the house of the Lord. The Lord is God, and He has given us LIGHT; Bind the festival sacrifice to the horns of the altar with cords.” ‭‭Psalms‬ ‭118:23-27‬ ‭ “No man can come to me, except THE FATHER which hath sent me DRAW him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all TAUGHT OF GOD. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath LEARNED OF THE FATHER, cometh unto me.” ‭‭John‬ ‭6:44-45‬ Key 4 - FACE / SEEK HIS FACE In Matthew, Jesus talks about John the Baptist: “This is he of whom it is written, “‘Behold, I send my messenger before your FACE, who will prepare your way before you.’” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:10‬ ‭ Jesus was quoting Malachi: “Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye SEEK, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.” ‭‭Malachi‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭ “When thou saidst, SEEK ye MY FACE; my heart said unto thee, THY FACE, LORD, will I seek. Hide not THY FACE far from me;” ‭‭Psalm‬ ‭27:8-9‬ ‭ From these verses, Jesus could be described as the FACE of the Lord. “Jesus said “The one who has seen Me has seen the Father;” ‭‭John‬ ‭14:9‬ ‭ Jesus = the Lord’s Face Key 5 - SHINE About Jesus: “In Him was life, and the life was the LIGHT of mankind. And the LIGHT SHINES in the darkness,” ‭‭John‬ ‭1:4-5‬ ‭ “in Galilee of the nations. The people that walked in darkness have seen a great LIGHT: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the LIGHT SHINED.” ‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:1-2‬ ‭ “Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, “I am the LIGHT of the world; the one who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the LIGHT of life.”” ‭‭John‬ ‭8:12‬ ‭ Key 6 - gracious “For by GRACE you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not a result of works, so that no one may boast.” ‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-9‬ ‭ “For the wages of sin is death, but the GRACIOUS gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:23‬ ‭ Key 7 - lift up “And just as Moses LIFTED UP the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man [Jesus/GOD’S FACE] be LIFTED UP, so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him.” ‭‭John‬ ‭3:14-15‬ ‭ Key 8 - peace “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have PEACE with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:1‬ ‭ Key 9 - invoke the Lord’s Name / call on the Lord’s Nsme “I will lift up the cup of salvation and INVOKE the Lord’s Name.” ‭‭Psalms‬ ‭116:13 “Everyone who CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD will be saved.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:13‬ “Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins by CALLING ON HIS NAME.’” ‭‭Acts‬ ‭22:16 “These things I have written to you who BELIEVE IN THE NAME of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.” ‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:13‬ ‭ “And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other NAME under heaven that has been given among mankind BY WHICH WE MUST BE SAVED.” ‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭ “The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not BELIEVED in THE NAME of the only Son of God.” ‭‭John‬ ‭3:18‬ ‭ --------------------- With all of the above in mind, read this very familiar passage from the Bible and it might seem new and different to you: “The Lord bless you, and keep you; The Lord cause His face to shine on you, And be gracious to you; The Lord lift up His face to you, And give you peace.’ So they shall invoke My name on the sons of Israel, and then I will bless them.”” ‭‭Numbers‬ ‭6:24-27‬ ‭ Ok, now you can read it again with the KEY NUMBERS: The Lord “BLESS” you (1) and “KEEP” you (2) The Lord “CAUSE” (3) His “FACE” (4) to “SHINE“ (5) on you And be “GRACIOUS” to you (6) The Lord “LIFT UP” (7) His “FACE” (4) to you And give you “PEACE”. (8) So they shall “INVOKE MY NAME” (9) on the sons of Israel, and then I will bless them.”” ‭‭Numbers‬ ‭6:24-27‬ ‭ Aaron’s blessing is perhaps not just a generic blessing of general favour but actually a prophecy of God’s plan of salvation and the Gospel. --------------------- Jesus said to the Pharisees: “You examine the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is those very Scriptures that testify about Me;” ‭‭John‬ ‭5:39‬ ‭ “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me.” ‭‭John‬ ‭5:46‬ ‭ Aaron’s Beneduction/Blessing is of course from the book of Numbers - which was written by Moses. ------------------ “As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven-things into which angels long to look.” ‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:10-12‬ ‭

[@sanjeevgig8918]

COPY-PASTE SPAM. Do not click "Read More"

[@kymdickman8910]

Nice!

[@InLawsAttic]

I find the Shroud of Turnin fascinating. I have one question. In John 20:7 it describes a napkin about his head, not lying with the linen clothes. And I was told that in the time of Jesus’ burial the Jews were using two pieces of cloth for burial, a napkin on the head, and a linen cloths - How can the shroud of Turin be Jesus’ if it is all one piece of cloth? Thank you both.

[@jamiemcvay130]

We have the “napkin”. It”s called the “sudariim”. It has been in a church in Spain since the 6th century.

[@InLawsAttic]

@@jamiemcvay130 WOW!! Now that makes a big difference !!! Thank you for sharing that info!!

[@btbb3726]

“Luke is a historian of the first rank; not merely are his statements of fact trustworthy, he is possessed of the true historic sense … in short, this author should be placed along with the greatest of historians.” - Sir William Ramsay

[@davethebrahman9870]

Yes, that’s just wrong. Luke makes a terrible error with regard to the census of Quirinius right at the beginning of his gospel. This means that Luke/ Acts cannot be considered as reliable even in the broadest of terms

[@ramigilneas9274]

Luke gets the names of people and places right… but that doesn’t make him reliable about anything that we can not confirm.

[@btbb3726]

@@davethebrahman9870 “By way of solution, let it be noted first of all that Luke says this was a ‘first’ enrollment that took place under Quirinius (haute apographe prote egeneto). A ‘first’ surely implies a second one sometime later. Luke was therefore well aware of that second census taken by Quirinius again in A.D. 7, which Josephus alludes to in the passage cited above. We know this because Luke (who lived much closer to the time than Josephus did) also quoted Gamaliel as alluding to the insurrection of Judas of Galilee ‘in the days of the census taking’ (Acts 5:37).” - Dr. Gleason Archer What you assert as a criticism of Luke is far be being a settled issue. There are plausible explanations for what Lune said.

[@btbb3726]

@@ramigilneas9274 The point of the assessment of Lune as an historian is to show that he had a solid grasp on perhaps even obscure historical facts that would be hard to account for if the writings attributed to Luke were written by someone else at a later date. The point is that at least the person who wrote “Luke” was at a place and time to have knowledge of the events which appear in said writings. This in itself is not “proof” that what is written in Luke is all true, but it is evidence that the author was in a position to know about the events he writes about. It was not someone from another time and/or place purporting to have knowledge of the things he writes about.

[@davethebrahman9870]

@@btbb3726 Thanks for the response. This is precisely what happens when you get your information at second or third hand from apologists. Luke doesn’t say ‘η πρωτη’, ‘the first’, but ‘πρωτη εγενετο’, ‘first happened’ i.e it was the first Roman census to occur in Judaea, because that region only became a Roman province in 6 AD. We know this from Josephus, Tacitus and also from an inscription set up in Apamea by Q. Aemilius Secundus. There are a number of impossibilities in the passage. Luke is just wrong. He probably read about a census in Josephus and misunderstood the time line. There are no ‘solutions’ to the mistake, just attempts by theologically motivated people to twist the texts.

[@coldfridayduckcamp2457]

Are there any extra-biblical sources that confirm the sky turning dark, the earth shaking and rocks splitting, the veil in the temple being torn and other people being raised from the dead at the moment of Jesus’ death? I’ve always wondered this. Seems like those are all odd occurrences that would have been recognized and recorded by people other than Christ followers.

[@brettthomas4740]

This is amazing. Thank you for the great content!

[@HarryNicNicholas]

it's twaddle.

[@informationaboutgod3114]

Excellent factual analysis and very informative.

[@michaelsullivan4134]

Sean, thanks for this episode. It was very informative. We have spent most of our lives in Texas, but we have become a Liberty family. We have five children and all seven of us have at least one Liberty degree. I'll spare you the details. We are also 'McDowell' fans ever since we read 'More than a Carpenter' as a young married couple. That was further solidified when one of our daughters made her public profession at a Newsboys / Josh McDowell event in Houston. (1996 I think?) I've watched your show many times and I've often wondered how much, if any, interaction there was between Biola and Liberty. I love the way you ended the show. 'We're all in this together.' Thank you for what you do! You are glowing in the dark! For His glory!

[@SeanMcDowell]

Thanks. I have many friends at Liberty and have even spoken there for convocation. Probably the biggest issue is that it's so far away!

[@student99bg]

How big is your house? How did you earn enough money to feed so many children?

[@user-kb9ey3ev6p]

I hasd a book called the The Lost Books of the Bible and I always wondered whether or not the emperor received reports of Christ and the events going on in Israel. In this book Pontius Pilate sent a report to the emperor. Also some documentation concerning that Paul was in communication with Seneca. Seneca was close to the imperial court was a stoic philosopher was telling Paul that he was impressed with the aspects of Christian morality. But these docs may have been forgeries.

[@robertmiller5258]

An important point is that there is no evidence that any of the Apostles rejected of their belief.

[@ramigilneas9274]

There is also no evidence that they didn’t recant… because most of them simply disappear from recorded history.

[@robertmiller5258]

The lack of evidence is surely very telling. If any had the opponents of Christianity would have been keen to publicise it. Nobody even bothered to manufacture such evidence.

[@ramigilneas9274]

@@robertmiller5258 It seems more like the Romans didn’t know or care about the beliefs of Christians… not a single Roman source mentions the resurrection or what Christians believed. Christians weren’t persecuted for their belief in the resurrection… they were persecuted because for breaking the peace because they weren’t patriotic enough and refused to worship the emperor.

[@kiwisaram9373]

That a Roman guard was asked for and failed in their duties may have suggested everyone concerned wanted to keep it quiet least they got in some serious trouble. I have seen this happen often in business contexts. The less said the better in some contexts. I can just imagine the guards waking up to find the tomb empty and walking away saying, we will not speak of this again if we want to live.

[@louielikely]

Thank you for your videos Dr McDowell 🎉

[@say10..]

Dr. Habermas promised to provide pinecreek with examples of people who became Ph.D historians then looked at the historical evidence for the resurrection and then became Christians because of historic evidence. We are still waiting for that list.

[@rampartranger7749]

I’ve always been a doubter of the Shroud. But “radiation” is a form of “light” or even the same thing as ‘light” broadly speaking, which does make one wonder about John’s insistent ‘light of the world” terminology, and the shrouded individual having been exposed (or sourced?) to powerful light.

[@eldin14]

The Shroud has been proven REAL by over 900 scientific tests. Only that one test which was done against all acceptable protocols says it is a fake. And you accept only the one n throw out the rest....SMAAAART!!

[@nancyjernigan5840]

The shroud cannot be Jesus. Because scripture clearly says that His head was wrapped separately and that it was folded neatly. The rest of the cloth was not folded.

[@davidauenson5446]

@@nancyjernigan5840 might want to read the Greek.

[@fyrerayne8882]

One good point is that nobody could have even made that image artistically in the 1300’s They can’t even reproduce that type of image with all of its unique characteristics to this day, with all of the technology and knowledge that we currently have! How’s a medieval artist supposed to do it?

[@robertmiller5258]

Surely it is telling that the Shroud, the Tunic of Argenteuil and the Sudarium of Oviedo all have blood of the AB- blood group which is extremely rare - 0.5% of human population

[@FPVMike]

These videos are so great sean, and important now given that Justin B has retired from unbelievable I find these really great. You keep pumping out these amazing interviews, keep it up!

[@Standing.W.Israel]

Justin B?

[@christsoldier1]

Thank you Dr Sean McDowell for this interview, to increase my knowledge 🙏🏾

[@GhostBearCommander]

I'd love to see Gary Habermas debate Matt Dillahunty on the Resurrection. Dillahunty's whole "claims are not evidence" shtick would really crumble before the evidence for the historicity of Christ and His Resurrection. Especially considering practically every bit of evidence we have on any subject of antiquity (not just the Resurrection) is based on claims recorded in ancient manuscripts of the era.

[@vanessac0382]

He’ll just dodge. That’s what he does

[@ramigilneas9274]

Matt would simply ask how many miracles historians agree on actually happened based on ancient writings like the gospels. And the correct answer is zero. That’s why Gary only tells us how many historians agree with his minimal facts but refuses to tell us how many agree with his fringe conclusions. Dillahunty already had this debate with Mike Winger who used the minimal facts argument… and it was a bloodbath.😂

[@GhostBearCommander]

@@ramigilneas9274 If one agrees with all of the minimal facts, which practically all scholars do, there is only one available conclusion. Namely the Resurrection. Thats the beauty of it. Whether human hearts are too stubborn to let facts speak for themselves, and agree with the fringe conclusions or not, makes no difference. Facts aren't decided by a democracy of scholars. They just are. From watching the debate myself, Matt spent the whole time using a double-standard of evidence. If we held history to his standard, we would effectively be forced to conclude that Julius Caesar (along with almost every other Roman Emperor) never existed.

[@zephyr-117sdropzone8]

​@@ramigilneas9274Mike dismantled Matt in that debate but I know Dillahunty's minions won't believe that. No reliable historian will EVER say a miracle happened because that's not the goal of history. You can't say something happened that isn't really testable. But scholars like Dale Allison readily admit they have seen and experienced supernatural activity and miracles before. That doesn't mean they'll ascribe that to history, even if they believe it to be the case.

[@ramigilneas9274]

@@GhostBearCommander If we used the standards of Mike Winger then we would have to believe in pretty much all miracle claims and in all conspiracy theories. Can you name a single miracle in recorded history that historians actually agree on happened based on ancient writings?😂 All historians who aren’t religious fanatics agree with Matt and even most Christian historians would never claim that the resurrection of Jesus is the best explanation for the historical data because they know that naturalistic explanations are far more likely to be true.

[@PC-vg8vn]

The Josephus passage that some think contains later interpolations from Christians could equally be authentic Josephus, but written in a sarcastic tone. He was clearly not a believer, in fact a Jew who crossed over to the Romans. Given his background, a sarcastic and rather mocking tone would seem quite appropriate.

[@ramigilneas9274]

Sure, if there was an original version by Josephus it’s not unlikely that he would have mocked Christians for their beliefs and that he would have called Jesus a false Messiah…

[@davethebrahman9870]

It is quite possible that they entire paragraph is a Christian interpolation. It fits very oddly within the context. The ‘Josephean’ sound of the passage could well be confected. I don’t think just removing the impossible bits gives you anything that is reliable, although it’s certainly possible that Jesus was discussed

[@Yesunimwokozi1]

​@@davethebrahman9870 it could be Josephus was a secret christian

[@cheaptrickfanatic3496]

The Josephus blurb is a fraud. Hell, I knew that when I was a 16 year old Christian, reading it for the first time. It has no place in Josephus. As for Tacitus, for God's sake, the guy was writing 85 YEARS after the events would have taken place! We arent talking about a day and age of photographs, video and internet. God KNOWS what his sources were??? To say that Tacitus is evidence of the person and life of Jesus is absolutely ridiculous and dishonest. Now, you wanna talk about the Shroud??... okay, I'll have that discussion. Or James and the crew of those who claimed to be Jesus's disciples?... I'll talk about that... but Josephus, Tacitus and religious texts??. Ya, no. Bad scholarship. I don't care what Bart Ehrman would support. Those sources suck.

[@omarwalker3056]

Your right, it is possible that the Josephus passage in question could have been written in a sarcastic or mocking tone by Josephus, who was a Jewish historian writing for a Roman audience. However, it's important to note that this is just one possible interpretation among many, and there is no clear evidence to definitively prove or disprove this theory. Some scholars have argued that the language and style of the passage do not support the idea that it was meant to be read sarcastically, and that it is more likely that later Christian scribes added or modified the text to bolster their claims about the historicity of Jesus. Ultimately, the question of the authenticity of the Josephus passage is a matter of interpretation and scholarly debate, and there is no one definitive answer that is accepted by all historians and scholars.

[@Standing.W.Israel]

On the "if Jesus actually healed" what about the high priest's man's ear that Peter chopped off? The shroud is really fascinating. I looked at it very skeptically for a long time, but when I really looked into it its amazing, but the way that Gary uses discretion when talking about it because he soeant want to put a stumbling block in front of anyone.

[@ballasog]

Absolutely, let's take a look at the high priest's chart.

[@DamianS1893]

If Jesus is able to Create all things seen and unseen... Then walking on water and /or calming an actual storm would be easy.

[@louielikely]

150yrs after 🎉❤ is everyone set on 30AD as the crucifixion year?

[@tgrogan6049]

So if all these “ evidences” for the shroud of Turin why doesn’t the Roman Catholic Church accept it as a true relic?

[@OmyKon]

Pope John Paul II has clearly attested to the value of the Shroud. For instance, in 1980, the Holy Father stated, “The Holy Shroud, the most splendid relic of the passion and the resurrection.” Almost ten years later, in April, 1989, he was asked by reporters during an in-flight press conference on the way to Madagascar about the Shroud, and he responded, “It certainly is a relic!”

[@tgrogan6049]

@@OmyKon So was that his "opinion" or was he speaking ex cathedra?

[@OmyKon]

@@tgrogan6049 you do know that the Catholic Church does not normally make any official decisions on relics right? They don’t speak of relics as “from the chair of Peter”! In 1936, Pope Pius XII called the Shroud a "holy thing perhaps like nothing else", and went on to approve of the devotion accorded to it as the Holy Face of Jesus . Relics include the physical remains of a saint (or of a person who is considered holy but not yet officially canonized) as well as other objects which have been “sanctified” by being touched to his body and can receive devotion. All you need is a letter from your bishop for approval of a relic.

[@tgrogan6049]

@@OmyKon Wow that is convenient!

[@OmyKon]

@@tgrogan6049 yup. Hence the rarity of it.

[@DanielH92]

thank you

[@Gutslinger]

1:06:13 What's the dispute on James in Acts? I don't understand.

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

I don't understand the purpose of these "historical proof" videos. Why would I need any historical evidence of a person who is alive today?

[@Jewonastick]

For fuq sake.....

[@say10..]

Good point.🤔

[@StringPlunker]

That's actually a very good point. According to the Bible, believers know the living Christ and have him living within them. That being the case, there would be no sense in appealing to historical evidence for his resurrection. This video is preaching to the choir and believers shouldn't need to rely on these historical evidence claims.

[@jacobvictorfisher]

I really don’t get Habermas’s apologetic style. Sean asks him a question about a historical source and Habermas essentially says “Here’s a critical scholar who says it’s a good source.” So now I have two questions: is the source good? (Habermas doesn’t make the case.) And now, does this critic actually say what Habermas says?

[@ramigilneas9274]

It’s a very strange style. I don’t care how many people believe something. I don’t care who believes it. I don’t care how many arguments there are. I don’t care how many pages some book about the topic has. I only care about the evidence… instead of telling me how many people believe something tell me WHY they believe it.

[@Heavy.is.the.head83]

I thought I was the only one who noticed this...

[@Nadiahope7]

Great interview!! This isn't blind faith.

[@DrKippDavis]

I have been looking for pictures of the shroud all morning where the "teeth" Gary mentions are visible, and cannot find any.

[@tgrogan6049]

Remember First Century Mark. Gary totally bought into that!

[@aubreyleonae4108]

As an aside: When someone tells you who they are, believe them. Thank you Sean for showing your true self. I believe you and I shall not forget.

[@Asher0208]

There is one question I like answered. If all these sceptical or critical scholars agree on all of Garys points, then why don’t they believe in the resurrection? What do they say or believe instead?

[@hhstark8663]

The *jewish* scholar Pinchas Lapide *accepted* the resurrection in light of the historical evidence. Atheist scholar will never accept any miracles, because of their philosophical bias. They categorically reject miracles *on beforehand* . That is what they say.

[@ramigilneas9274]

@@hhstark8663 And Lapide is the exception to the rule.😉

[@kevinlawrence2600]

It seems that a person does not come to a heart belief in the face of evidence. Their belief is followed by a humble heart to know God

[@zephyr-117sdropzone8]

Faith and God.

[@daffidavit]

I just suscribed. I have high respect for Dr. Habermas. I read his book "Verdict on the Shroud" co-authored by Kenneth Stevenson back around 1981 and have been a student of the Shroud ever since. I'd like to see Sean do a video on the subject of "doubt and faith" as he mentioned at the end of this video. Too bad I'm responding about five months after this video was produced.

[@robertmiller1299]

Why does everyone ignore the Sudarium of Oviedo and the Shirt of Argenteuil? The greatly reinforce the argument of the authenticity of the Shroud.

[@PC-vg8vn]

Given that the vast majority of secular historians believe Jesus existed, that is not the question. The question is was he as portrayed in the 4 Gospels? I think so, but others would disagree. Id rather read a book on that than evidence for his existence which is already well established despite literally 2 or 3 'historians' denying it.

[@ramigilneas9274]

Well, there also only seem to be 2 "historians“ left who still try to defend the minimal facts argument. Gary Habermas and his buddy Michael Licona. Of course I think that Jesus existed… but Mythicism is only slightly more fringe than the few historians who would unironically defend the view that the resurrection is the best explanation for the historical data.

[@johnmartin4152]

I wonder what he would think of the Johannine Priority idea? Or the early dating of the Matthew fragments advanced by Thiede. Also it´s very wise of him to point out that miracles happen today and that there are thousands of accounts backed up with evidence in the form of medical imaging, personal testimony, and so forth. The antisupernaturalist position is and always has been irrational.

[@ramigilneas9274]

Is there a single miracle that medical experts agree on actually happened based on medical data? Is there a single miracle that scientists agree on actually happened based on historical data? Is there a single miracle that historians agree on actually happened based on historical data? The correct answer is NO, and as long as this stays the case not believing in undemonstrated supernatural nonsense will stay irrational. And no, personal testimony is worthless if you want to confirm supernatural claims. But if you think that personal testimony should simply be accepted then I would tell you that there are millions of people of other religions who had supernatural experiences that disprove the core doctrines of Christianity and everything that Jesus ever said.😂

[@johntumpkin3924]

Great, historically factual discussion, Dr. Sean & Dr. Habermas. Jesus was not an exorcist in the popular, contemporary usage and understanding of the term, but was and is the Great Physician. The physician component of King Jesus' healing ministry was on a sound footing, compared to the time of Asa (2 Chronicles 16:12-14), & miraculously advanced in the Greco-Roman context. Physician competence is acknowledged by Jesus in Dr. Luke 5:31, 32, and physician continuity in Christianity is exemplified in the ministry of Dr. Luke (Colossians 4:14). Since healing in Jesus' and Christian context finds both medical and miraculous expression, but psychological healing finds supernatural expression, we may infer that psychological healing was far from being on a sound footing, even in King Jesus' time, but was frighteningly powerful, without sedatives, tranquilizers, and other modern medications meant to calm and bring balance to the mind. Note the inhuman chaining of the Gadarene demoniac and his deliverance by Jesus (Mark 5:1-20). It us commendable that mentally troubled persons were not killed, but chaining them up cannot be viewed as an acceptable therapeutic measure, and a psychiatric hospital doing so today would immediately be shut down by the Department of Health and Human Services. King Jesus' therapeutic prowess in healing mentally ill patients is further demonstrated in the casting of seven demons out of Mary Magdalene (Mark 16:9; Luke 8:2). The less subjective wording of the Lukan report allows the reader to infer that King Jesus took Mary through all of the stages of therapeutic healing of the mind, from the first stage to the last stage, seven being the number of perfection, without in any way adding to her demons, but actually, and systematically, removing them all from her. In Health Professions, this requires a system that will not violate personal vulnerability, and which others can also follow with similar success. Because of his compassionate ministry to disadvantaged and demon-possessed, Jesus was falsely accused by his opponents off being a Samaritan and demon-possessed (John 8:48). Those not supported by the divine royal healing system of King Jesus did not fare so well in superhuman confrontations with psychologically troubled patients, and were physically overcome, even in groups. Note the case of the seven sons of Sceva, all of whom were rapaciously put under, stripped and bruised by a lone demoniac, before fleeing naked from the scene (Acts 19: 13-17). As I have suggested before, demon possession of biblical times may be applied to ingrained systemic dysfunction in various domains, such as human road traffic systems, pornography, substance abuse, upside-down philosophies, etcetera, concerning which King Jesus was and is very much more powerful than all of them combined. G-d bless!

[@daveandersen6453]

Sean. Josh back in the 80s said that prior to the 14th century or so, there is no mention of the shroud. What, if anything has changed since your dad said that??

[@SeanMcDowell]

Dave, i’m just not an expert on the shroud, so I hesitate to say. There’s a couple articles in the recent volume Licona edited on the resurrection.

[@daveandersen6453]

@@SeanMcDowell do you happen to have a link to that for me? Thanks so much for your help!

[@knightofchrist3594]

Please put timestamps on long videos

[@JoylieC]

Thank you for this very interesting interview.

[@callmefienix4865]

Man I cant wait for Garys magnum opus to come out. Beyond excited for the books to come out.

[@SeanMcDowell]

ME TOO!!!

[@graceanneful]

The closest sources were martyred, and DONT forget they were under great persecution! And many were not literate. Papyrus paper was very expensive as well!

[@chrisazure1624]

I think the shroud is a burial cloth of a man who crucified. I am just not convinced it can be shown to be Jesus.

[@winniecash1654]

That's reasonable.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

The fact is that many dozens of doctors, scientists, archeologists, and other highly trained researchers and their tens of thousands of hours of examination have *PROVED* that the Shroud most definitely wrapped the body of a severely beaten, scourged and crucified man that died wearing a crown or cap of thorns. This was *proven 100%.* So who is silly enough to think that this was someone other than our Lord Jesus?

[@OmyKon]

Only one person matches all the evidences in the Shroud…

[@chrisazure1624]

@@OmyKon Unless it was a criminal they did that to make it appear that way.

[@OmyKon]

@@chrisazure1624 did what?

[@SINQUEFIELD83]

It is wild that we live in a time when most people are almost incapable of surviving on their own yet they worship themselves above all else. It seems whenever life is at it's easiest is when people lose site of God and focus only on their relevance.

[@Jewonastick]

When my life was tough there was no god helping me out either....

[@SINQUEFIELD83]

" You're narcissistic expectations are ridiculous. I always thought my life was tough until I met someone with real hardships. Now I feel like an asshole for even making an absurd statement. By the way, Thanks for proving my point by showing everyone that your problems take priority over everyone else's. Perhaps you should quit dwelling in your own discomfort and reach out and help someone in need. Christian people who are suffering in other countries would never make a comment like yours because they are fully aware that they are not special. P.S. you are not special and no one owes you anything

[@Jewonastick]

@@SINQUEFIELD83 where did I say that my hardship was the worst? Where did I say that I prioritize my problems over other's? Where did I say I was dwelling over my own discomfort? Where did you come up with me not helping anyone else? Where did I say that I am special? Where did I say that anyone owes me anything?

[@SINQUEFIELD83]

@E Stok you replied to my original comment with no relevance. You reconstructed my comment to make it about yourself. I was simply pointing out that people are drawn toward God when times are difficult. And when times are easy, they are drawn to themselves. Then you had the arrogance to say God didn't come to you when you wanted him to. ARROGANT ARROGANT ARROGANT

[@SINQUEFIELD83]

"When times were tough, God didn't help me out either" I am curious... what exactly did you want God to do that would've met your expectations? Perhaps you are already equipped for what is necessary. You already implied that your struggles weren't as bad as it couldve been, so I hope that accounts for something. How about trying to be grateful for what you do have rather than expecting more. Who knows, it could all vanish in a moments notice

[@R9500pro1]

Pardon my ignorance, but what were the creeds they kept referring to?

[@SeanMcDowell]

Short statements embedded within the NT such as 1 Cor 15:3-5

[@omarwalker3056]

Does Harbermas address Richard Carrier who is a contemporary historian who has written extensively on the historicity of Jesus. One of his works includes an analysis of the writings of Flavius Josephus, a first-century Jewish historian whose works have been used by some scholars to support the existence of Jesus. In his analysis, Carrier argues that the passages in Josephus' writings that mention Jesus have been tampered with or added by later Christian scribes. He contends that the original text did not include any reference to Jesus, but instead may have referred to a different person or event. Carrier's argument is based on a number of factors, including the fact that the language and style of the passages do not match the rest of Josephus' writing, and that they contain details that seem unlikely to have been known by a non-Christian writer.

[@robertbrown7470]

It's interesting that there can be a difference between these scholars and others that believe the resurrection is a historical fact but yet refuse to believe. It's truly a choice.

[@lcurt5910]

John 19:20

[@PC-vg8vn]

Regarding the shroud, surely the description in John's Gospel tends to negate any idea that this could be the cloth that covered Jesus' body. John makes the point that the cloth covering Jesus face and head was separate from the cloth covering the rest of his body. They are 2 different pieces of cloth, but the Turin shroud is one piece, including covering his face. That does not fit with how Jesus' burial cloths were found by the disciples.

[@davethebrahman9870]

Yes, obviously. Also all our evidence indicates that the Shroud is mediaeval.

[@1981jsoldier]

The Catholics have the face covering which was stored separately. Spitzer has information out there if interested.

[@matthewcollins8148]

There is No Paint on the Shroud, Dave. You’re confused.

[@robertdelisle7309]

@@davethebrahman9870the sample of cloth from the shroud that was carbon dated to the Middle Ages was later determined to have been repair work done at that time. The sample is not original to the shroud.

[@davethebrahman9870]

@@robertdelisle7309 No it wasn’t. That is a silly claim made by Shroudies. The sites for carbon dating were very carefully chosen and examined for re-weaving prior to destruction. The parts of the Shroud that are repairs can be identified by sight, let alone under microscope.

[@martineeveraerdt5303]

I'm a big fan of Gary :)

[@davethebrahman9870]

That’s quite a confession! :)

[@fbcpraise]

At 1:05:24 you DO mean James the brother of John, right? And your concerns are about the external sources on his martyrdom?

[@SeanMcDowell]

Yes, both external and internal

[@dan_gocavs4110]

Just started this video (about 18 minutes in). Habermas an excellent scholar so he knows far more than me but... I question the 95 AD date of the gospel of John. We have the p52 fragment of John estimated to be appr. 125 AD. That's a copy of the original gospel. So, that only leaves appr. 30 years from the original. Seems off to me. I've read John's gospel may have been written far earlier, perhaps before 70 AD. Just a comment (back to the video!)

[@darrenmiller6927]

Excellent! Thanks so much!

[@michaelabbott9080]

Paul was an eye witness...? To what exactly..?..Having a vision is not being an eye witness....Oh sorry,just googled Habermas and found out he is a lecturer at Liberty University..

[@markhoffman7437]

I had a roman history professor in college that said if you ask any roman history professors across the country 97% would tell you Jesus was really a person who lived in the time period the scripture says.

[@ballasog]

1. Paul knew his brother. 2. How hard is it to believe there was an eschatological Jewish preacher who was executed by the Romans. 3. The Bethlehem fiasco where Jesus was born in a barn is at bottom, a story of a husband dragging his wife on a trip and being too stupid to make a hotel reservation. So how can that story NOT be true?

[@joymahiko]

The shroud has never been proven to be from Christ, nor even authenticated from His time period.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

The fact is that many dozens of doctors, scientists, archeologists, and other highly trained researchers and their tens of thousands of hours of examination have *PROVED* that the Shroud most definitely wrapped the body of a severely beaten, scourged and crucified man that died wearing a crown or cap of thorns. This was *proven 100%.* So what kind of moron does it take, even an atheist one, to think that this was someone other than our Lord Jesus?

[@christopher7725]

@@beverlyhurd8556lots of people were beaten and crucified. You don’t know what Jesus looked like. A long haired bearded guy just fits your idea of what Jesus looked like.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

@@christopher7725 Sure a lot of people were crucified. But only _one_ time in history that it was proven* by many dozens of doctors, scientists, archeologists, and other highly trained researchers and their _tens of thousands of hours_ of examination that the Shroud *most definitely* wrapped the body of a severely beaten, scourged and crucified man that was wearing a crown or cap of thorns before he died. And the man in the Shroud did have long hair and a beard. So how in your mind is this just my idea of what Jesus looked like?

[@christopher7725]

@@beverlyhurd8556 ok so it wrapped a beaten man. How do we know that man was Jesus? Cause he was crucified and beaten? Ok, many people were. What specifically points to this being Jesus?

[@beverlyhurd8556]

@@christopher7725 He was beaten _and_ scourged _and_ crowned with thorns _and_ lanced in the side _exactly_ as it says in the Gospels. But it's fine with me if you want to believe that this was someone other than Jesus. No skin of my nose.

[@achristian11]

Excellent video brother ❤

[@SeanMcDowell]

Thx!

[@larryforsythe416]

Is there any proof for the 3 hours of darkness and earthquake that occurred after Christ's death?

[@Hondo0101]

People forget that HE was a carpenter. Carpenters don't make it into history books. Jesus being poor and unknown because of location and trade would never be mentioned anywhere. Unless something strange happened. Being mentioned once is history is very unusual for a man in that trade. Being mentioned 15 to 17 times is extraordinary. Something happened on April 6 AD 30.

[@DocReasonable]

“One of the striking and to many people, surprising facts about the first century is that we don't have any Roman records, of any kind, that attest to the existence of Jesus. We have no birth certificate, no references to his works or deeds, no accounts of his trial, no description of his death - no reference to him whatsoever in any way, shape, or form. Jesus's name is not even mentioned in any Roman source of the first century.” "Forged" by Bart Ehrman

[@Lillaloppan]

Thank you so very much😊!

[@sandypidgeon4343]

Great talk. Please tell Gary "the purple octopus guy" said hello - re his book with Licona pg 106. My question to you is with respect to the Qur'an being a corroborative historical "piece": Given that many scholars place Nestorius as a propagator of Christianity in the Saudi Arabian peninsula, and given that Nestorius' understanding of Christ, heretically, as he denied the hypostatic union, could the Qur'an be then a historically useful piece given that the Jews and Christians living there would have/could have propagated that denial that gave Muhammed his understanding of/denial of Christ's divine nature? Second, I didn't hear you all bring up Shlomo Pines and the passages in Josephus, and, is there new scholarship that then re-invigorates that debate? If I missed that, my apologies. Thanks much. GOD Bless

[@alex_rogan]

Interested to hear what the thought is on the Alexamento Graffito as minor evidence.

[@RedeemedRogueMolecules]

Hey Gary!

[@juanmilian4207]

Have you read the book, "Lincoln, Shakespeare, and The Resurrection?"

[@alancook4407]

If there is no Jesus we have no hope without guidance we are lost

[@MrWoods899]

Question, do you mean 5,000 pages not 5,000 words? (Talking about his four volume tome) Because there's a big difference and 5000 words is not a lot.

[@marionchase-kleeves8311]

The Italians found syrobe-likw movement on the shroud showing the hands moving, nail coming out of feet, other movement of the body recorded on the shroud 34:33

[@matthewcollins8148]

I’m not surprised that the promo for the episode was the Shroud. That speaks volumes. Gary is like all academics in that he is heavily influenced by Shroud Stigma. He said something very interesting in that his thoughts have changed about the Shroud (he’s always been fluid in assigning a % to it’s likely authenticity) Lately his % has gone DOWN to 80% !! (from the 90s !!) But then he adds to that - ‘as far as Using It’ So, it’s still a industry stigma thing.

[@matthewcollins8148]

At the 3min mark Gary talks about the Academic who wrote the Forward for his book wishing he had not mentioned the Shroud. There is an Extreme Bias against the Shroud in the Theology Industry - always has been. They get Mocked if they talk about the Shroud favorably. Thanks to Sean and Gary for daring to bring it up anyway.

[@ramigilneas9274]

@@matthewcollins8148 Believing that the shroud is authentic. Believing that there is credible evidence that NDEs are real experiences of the afterlife. Believing that Evolution is just a giant conspiracy that involves almost all scientists on the planet. Those are all huge red flags.

[@ethanrichard4950]

@@ramigilneas9274 the chances of evolution seem small, since mtDNA and Y chromosomal mutation rates in sin and and men respectively point to recent human origins.

[@ramigilneas9274]

@@ethanrichard4950 No they don’t.😂

[@davethebrahman9870]

@@ethanrichard4950 Where on earth did you get that idea?

[@SincerelyBradley]

Going to LU I swear I had him for Theology or NT, but alas I did not. What a bummer!

[@tedgunderson67]

Great interview. Subscribed.

[@CentralMississippiWhitetail]

Thanks

[@kensmith8152]

The problem is with scholars is that in the case of the existence for Christ is that it hits too close to home in their personal bias’

[@Gutslinger]

1:10:41 🗓👀 Look at that. We're in January.

[@Mark-cd2wf]

When it comes to evidence for the Resurrection, we have more than enough evidence to reasonably determine that the best explanation (greatest explanatory scope and power) for all the facts as we know them is that God raised Jesus from the dead, and the disciples knew this like they knew any other fact. The Shroud is completely unnecessary to any of this, and therefore irrelevant. Which is why I wish people would stop talking about it.

[@ramigilneas9274]

Pretty sure that a few unverifiable anecdotes and anonymous hearsay aren’t good enough to reasonably determine that the laws of physics were broken by an undetectable magical superbeing. The simplest explanation with the highest prior probability is that the stories of the gospels are mostly fiction.

[@jasongarey8329]

I'm curious why Gary gives so much credence to Bart Ehrman.

[@hwd7]

Because Bart Ehrman is a hostile witness, so sceptics cannot cite bias.

[@cheaptrickfanatic3496]

​@@hwd7 Bart is far from "hostile" lol... if he accepts Josephus, Tacitus and all that religious literature as support of the existence of Jesus, ya, he is FAR from hostile.

[@matthewcollins8148]

It’s because Ehrman is a god to atheists everywhere. He’s the best known, most widely read atheist in the world.

[@Frst2nxt]

1 Clement was written soon after Peter's martyrdom, not in the 90s. It was written in the 60s.

[@krismikewill]

Greetings, Peter. Why do you hold to a date for 1 Clement in the 60's?

[@chniks]

Sean, thank you very much for these videos. Im a young christian and I benefit a lot from it. I also have a very important question: I was baptized in an orthodox chruch as a child. Should i be baptized again? And can i do it myself ? (because i dont have christians around me) Thanks a lot again!!

[@SeanMcDowell]

Great question. I’ll keep this and address in an upcoming short video! I need to think about it a bit.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

doesn't your PERSONAL god tell you these things? why does anyone need a pastor or apologist when they tell me they have god with them 24/7 - or are you lying about that?

[@tgrogan6049]

The Neronian persecution is unmentioned by Tertullian, Clement,Eusebius and others. Very strange😮

[@LilyAmongThorns]

The fact that atheist scholars call out those who believe Jesus is a myth as not knowing what they are talking about is great to know and to use with those many atheists who believe that feeble lie.

[@forerunner1357]

I'm taking notes; I'm debating an athiest who say's I can't use the bible or scripture as a source or to support my claims 👍

[@poldreborn4281]

Take notes, but why do you agree on that? Why you can't use The Bible? In my view it is important in such a debate to show the evidence that Bible is reliable and credible. All in all, The Bible got tons of 1st century written information., as well as prophecies about Jesus Christ written before He was born into this world. I think it's very good evidence to show, why restrict yourself and accept such a rules? Although I think you still can provide tons of evidence without The Bible. I advice you to check out videos by J. Warner Wallace like: "Is The Bible reliable?" or "Jesus: Person of interest", they could help you in this debate imo.

[@ABarton43]

5,000 words? That is around 15 pages.

[@michaelharrington75]

They're very large words.

[@nathanbauman1579]

Volume one, almost 1100 pages, Habermas said. McDowell simply misspoke.

[@ABarton43]

@@nathanbauman1579 He also mistyped it in the description. But I presumed he actually means pages.