Examining Section 31's Covert Armada | Star Trek

[@NerdWorldEmpire]

Section 31 makes a lot of sense to me, like it or not the Universe can be unforgiving and it's only easy to be a saint in paradise when it's not on fire.

[@Starman_Dx]

They didn't have gelato machines. But they had soda fountains so they can make the famous Section 31 Root Beer Float. A insidious, yet delightful drink. Bubbly. Just like the Federation.

[@nitehawk86]

Section 31 motto: "We are bubbly, just like the rest of the Federation."

[@AaronTelfordUK]

It makes sense to me Section 31 having it's own fleet. This fleet need not be big, practically speaking why have it larger than Starfleet? Having it's own ships allows Section 31 more freedom and flexibility to conduct operations. Not having their own ships leaves them dependant on Starfleet to move around which leads to unwanted attention and unwanted questions 🤔

[@LoreReloaded]

Agreed. They could start asking unneeded or unnecessary questions - or have to deal with people who might have moral objections.

[@Nostripe361]

@@LoreReloadedmy issue with the discovery fleet is its size. More ships means more upkeep and harder to hide. I think a spy fleet would be better as a small fleet with nothing bigger than a defiant class. Or have the fleet be public but publicly be reported as a normal starfleet force just doing normal stars fleet stuff

[@jayrodmurderface]

The Black Fleet vibes

[@garycannon4644]

they dont need thier own ships when they have starfleet they can simply just use those ships without anyone being the wiser to them

[@garycannon4644]

@@LoreReloaded you ever watch the episode where it turns out admiral ross was working with section 31 in deep space nine? that episode addresses your entire comment lol

[@johnsledge3942]

These designs always reminded me of the USS Vengeance with the darker hull color, triangular design language, and cutouts. I wonder if in the Kelvin timeline, Admiral Marcus took the secret funding or the fleetyards that would have been used on ships like this to build his massive warship, hence the similarities.

[@obsidian179]

So, triangular-shaped saucer sections might be a Section 31 standard, with four nacelles being common? (side-eyes the Prometheus)

[@AdmiralBlackstar]

I remember seeing this Section 31 fleet right after reading an Honorverse novel specifically criticizing the Havenites for giving State Security their own ships. And it is quite stupid and just asking for trouble. You have an already clandestine operation with little to no oversight that now has the ability to travel freely and deploy massive amounts of firepower with little if any way to hold them accountable, particularly if someone goes rogue. It's like taking every bad part of clandestine black-op groups and multiplying it by a thousand.

[@rodan9773]

It wouldn't make sense for The Fedaration to have it but it dose make sense for Starfleet to have it. Starfleet was the focus of a lot of aggresion so having a secret organisation to deal with threats The Fedaration wouldn't effectively deal with or deal with quick enough would be very needed and Section 31 did it's role as Threat Analysis very well with a few screw ups here and there. Plus Hell compared to The Tal's Ear and The Osidian Order i think Section 31 is the least Violent and more forward with there approaches. Respect and keep up the epic work.

[@Warsage29]

While it does make sense for Section 31 to have their own fleet with there being some missions where a starfleet vessel may raise some questions both from other powers but the crew of the vessel itself but its the size of the fleet i have trouble with especially the amount of resources needed to maintain that fleet.

[@thanqualthehighseer]

it would be ironic if the Romulans didn't create the cloaking technology but captured it from a Section 31 test ship.

[@DrewLSsix]

I dont think their ships have actual cloaks, stealth (low visibility mode) and disguise is all we are shown on screen. But.... in the original script for Balance of Terror the Romulan ship was actually a stolen starfleet ship, that's why the model maker designed it to look like the Enterprise but without the secondary hull.

[@tomasr.]

Romulans have some sort of cloaking technology already in ENT era.

[@mattstakeontheancients7594]

So basically section 31 is black ops. Off the books operations would need stealthy ships and would have more experimental tech than normal starfleet. That way if something goes wrong there wouldn’t be record. Also makes sense they would have their own fleet, the less people know the better. Basically your hidden ace if you ever need it.

[@DrewLSsix]

Before DSC I figured S31 mostly got around on typical starfleet ships serving as officers/crew with their ulterior motives, but that they would also need a multitude of other ships, recovered/stolen alien ships, purchased civilian ships. A hand full of specialty ships like these also makes a lot of sense, though I imagine they go way out of their way to make sure they aren't captured or identified.

[@aperson22222]

3:34 You've got two capital ships and 198 shuttlepods and worker bees with jury-rigged phaser banks. Also, the _Enterprise_ and _Discovery_ had 198 support craft between them? Is Janeway involved somehow?

[@DrewLSsix]

Tha5s including the maintenance drones

[@sighsgkj]

it would explain a lot about Voyager

[@darwinxavier3516]

Section 31 having a fleet is fine. The drones were stupid af. All that pewpew and they couldn't destroy two ships. The battle reminded me of the Vogons trying to shoot Marvin in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

[@RusticFederalist]

That's funny.

[@tomasr.]

A bunch of drones may not be used offensively, but to overwhelm the opponent's defense systems.

[@darwinxavier3516]

@@tomasr. How exactly do you unoffensively overwhelm someone's defense systems.

[@RusticFederalist]

@@darwinxavier3516 The wildest Road Runner Kung Fu Panda Captain Ramius Crazy Ivan stop hitting yourself space judo you ever did see.

[@casbot71]

I have a DS9 Theory that *Section 31 is what allowed the Federation to be idealistic.* And all the timelines where Starfleet and Humanity are "evil" didn't have a (independent and unknown) Section 31 to load the dice, and prevent Humans from becoming _"...as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon."_ - to quote Quark. Section 31 also prevents military takeovers of the Federation from within. Section 31 may have helped Sisko, without his knowledge, to uncover the plot in Paradise Lost. If they had wanted to, Section 31 could have accomplished the same operation much more covertly without using Starfleet cadets and registered transporters. They stop Humans from giving in to their baser natures, ironically by using that same winner takes all and end justifies the means nature to protect the bulk of humanity from being lead by the psychopaths, narcissist and megalomaniacs who naturally gravitate to power in _Human_ societies. In DS9, Slone should have told Bashir that Section 31 investigated mirror universes (and parallel timelines?) and discovered one constant about the ones where Humans were "evil." There had been no independent Section 31 to secretly keep the Federation on the straight and narrow - that they are what enables Federation idealism. But the good timelines have a _hidden_ Section 31 pulling strings that allow the Federation to live up to its Better Angels. Also, when Section 31 is co-opted by Starfleet and folded into the mainstream organisation, they can also become susceptible to the corruption that can afflict Starfleet (corruption that can be encouraged by rival powers and ambitious politicians and Starfleet officers alike). Perhaps that's what happened in the Discovery timeline...? Section 31 no longer was a quiet cell structure left alone to do its own thing? What does that mean for the Kelvin timeline, where Admiral Marcus and Kirk both knew about Section 31 archives? A missed opportunity in DS9 is an episode where Bashir and Slone are marooned together and have to cooperate to survive, not Slone playing games and manipulating _(or is he?)_ It would be difficult to explain them being stuck on a crashed ship on an unknown planet - Slone would already have contingencies for such a situation. But both stuck in the Mirror Universe?? Slone could impart some wisdom about why _that_ original Federation was so different and xenophobic. "We, Section 31, were the difference in the timelines, Julian. We're what enables people like you to exist" *_We are humble powerseekers and selfless manipulators._* A bold move would be to have a series with Section 31 being the pragmatic good guys working in the background. _Enterprise_ sort of hinted at that, with Reid being a secret ("former") member who manipulated the others to help with an agenda that was ultimately for the greater good. In the cancelled next season, they could have had Reid be a full operative, playing dirty for the goal of helping create the Federation. [And metaphorically exhuming Gene Roddenberry's corpse to desecrate it]. Having a retcon with Section 31 being the real reason Starfleet prevailed in some close calls in established series, would be a lovely twist. ".... We're what enables people like you to exist."

[@wouldntyouliketoknow9455]

Love it! Could you do a video about WW3 in Star Trek with clips, references, etc? Always wanted to see a detailed breakdown of it.

[@Buschaga]

“Nobody wants another Control.” - Mr. Saru *amen*

[@davidb4715]

This is not what Mr. Roddenberry wanted or envisioned.

[@AlternicityBlogspot]

Personally, I don't care what he wanted.

[@Kameth]

I like the idea of Section 31 having a small group of cloak capable ships. Let's you get agents in undetected, blow up things you shouldn't, and finally, when other species come looking for stealth ships they don't look at Starfleet. Why would they? Everyone knows they're the only people without cloaking tech. Apart from the Defiant, but the Sisko's Mutha F*cking Pimp hand is only one ship.

[@comentedonakeyboard]

Actually Gelato Machines are standard on all Section 31 vessels, including options to ad drugs and poisons into the mix😂

[@kineuhansen8629]

perhaps in the upcoming secton 31 movie we may lern something on the ships

[@blackfire3744]

Now that the subject has been brought up, I don't think the klingons have their own version. Even the vulcans had their own black ops variant during enterprise.

[@RusticFederalist]

You would think they would mostly be unobtrusive courier ships. The next show really should be restricted to physical models for space scenes. I'm not sure a Star Trek show can break with precedence of having sounds in space scenes, but cutting out a lot of that racket would help. Keeping them to only one new species per season would help too. Star Trek looks like someone tried to mix a rave with a highway truck crash.

[@chrisdufresne9359]

It makes sense that Section 31 has a stellar navy, but it's strange that they don't just have certain admirals and ships under said admirals as their main force. We've seen that Starfleet admirals can easily be inept, but the fact that Section 31 actually revealed their capabilities was dumb. It would have made more sense to have a sector fleet go "rogue" and be "lost" with all hands that incidentally work for Section 31. Something akin to the Ghost Fleet from Battlestar Galactica.

[@iainhewitt]

You have to wonder what the Klingon equivalent to the Tal Shiar, Obsidian Order and Section 31 was like?

[@src6339]

Theoretically, any agency in the federation would only have access to equipment necessary to perform that agencies mission statement. In section 31's case, that seems to be subterfuge and counter intelligence. The roll of gathering intelligence being squarely in the domain of agencies like the aptly named "starfleet intelligence" though i imagine that there would be some degree of overlap there. So logically, if section 31 were to have ships they would be specifically tailored to that role. I mean they arnt exactly going to need to fairy 10000 colonists to the frontier any time soon. So, we're probably talking small, discrete vessels, suitable for fairying small teams in and out of areas controlled by other nation states around the federation border, capable of intercepting and decrypting both fiendly and enemy communications, decent tactical sensor capability, both passive an active, as well as booking it in and out of deployment zones at high speed. As fow weapon load out, that will probably need to be interchangeable and mission specific. Most missions they likely wouldn't want to have weapon systems tracable to the federation and in all likelihood they wouldnt need anything more capable than taking out a select target (think sniper rifle as opposed to a bazooka). With all this in mind, chances are they could perform most missions with a small fleet turbo charged runabout type craft with enhanced sensors, improved computer cores, modular tactical bar and something akin to a cloaking device. If they need anything else for a special mission, they should just be able to draft the services of another agency like starfleet. 🤔 Obviously thats not the direction they went in canon, but its basically all they need to have to effectively do their job.

[@jayburn00]

I highly recommend the section 31 book series, especially the final book "Control". Control is a bit scary because it seems quite plausible for what section 31 starts as to be created. *spoilers follow* Discovery drew some inspiration from Control (section 31 being run by an AI and one of the names of the AI), but the actual characterization of the AI is much different and i think it is actually more interesting in the books (isn't out to destroy life, out to protect the federation at all costs). I just don't like what happens to doctor Bashir at the end...

[@specialnewb9821]

My problem with S31 is my problem with real world agencies like NSA/CIA. F em for making those decisions for me. I am just as capable if not more so of determining the best course of action if I had their information. Why should I trust them when we know they have made the wrong decisions in the past?

[@charlestownsend9280]

When it comes to section 31 being ahead technology wise, that's not much different from real world secret organisation, with some holding onto newer technology for decades. So it's possible that section 31 has some level of control over starfleets research devision and prevents some technology from going public to deliberately keep ahead of the competition (it's harder for an enemy to counter new tech and the strategies that come from it if access to it is highly limited). I'd also guess that section 31 break several laws and restrictions that starfleet has imposed on itself (like cloaking technology and probably certain weapons or types of technology). Which given the type of organisation they are isn't unlikely.

[@Jeremy-83]

Section 31 did not have its own fleet nor was there ever a building that acted as their headquarters. They enlisted certain people in positions of power who then gave them use of ships. Section 31 was secretive, worked from the shadows. The very idea they had anything like a secret fleet or headquarters was something invented by uninformed writers for the JJ movies and Discovery. Don't even get me started on the A.I. story arc. Apparently section 31 and the Federation only dabled in A.I. once then gave it up..unlikely.

[@beepboop204]

presumably, Gene thought that replicators + alien contact = Jeffersonian Technology, aka technology being used for good and non-Orwellian means after the Dominion War, what would it take to move away from the Orwellian StarFleet back to a Jeffersonian model? or is it impossible to go back?

[@bentencho]

I preferred Section 31 to be ominously powerful from the background, not just a variant of the Cardassian Order + Tal Shiar. Where a Section 31 clandestine operation could have been done without the majority of the crew realizing or knowing what's happening.

[@vrenak]

I'd just like to point out that the auto subs writes "Kardashians" instead of "Cardassians".

[@Americandragonrider333.]

Section 31 was controversial. But necessary for the Federations existence and survival! Without it the Federation wouldn’t have lasted 10 years!

[@TDBoedy]

I'd say that if I was to take my Anti-DISCO bias out of it that S31's fleet makes use of the private sector for building their starships - y'know that part of the Federation we never see. IT's clear that the UFP has a military industrial complex and that likely has been the case since the Earth-Romulan War when it was solidified from Terra Prime to S31 which likely involved a bias towards an Earth Led UFP rather than a Vulcan or Andorian led one or any other filthy non-human. Too risky. They already saw how slow their "allies" were to respond and how much they withheld vital technologies - hence also their grabbyness for any tech advantage and maintenance of that general superiority. remember they have such control that they have backdoors into every system - so much that they have silent transporters that are stealthed. Oh and they can avoid security systems at will. Like the computer probably doesn't even know that they exist - they get auto-deleted from security footage in real time etc. They are Twilight Zone powerful. Admiral Ross wasn't IN S31, he was an agent, a useful guy - but not in control. HE was afraid. He knew just enough - maybe he resisted in the past and paid dearly for it. Maybe S31 even caused an incident and made it look like something else and that convinced Ross. They are not above false flags I don't think.

[@dustind3960]

If i were of i were section 31 where is the very best place to hid section 31 in late 2290's to about 2370's hint in plain sight with in tue excelsior and mirenda classes given their are claases of federatiin ship with very high numbers

[@shahassxs]

i stand by my theory that discovery is another timeline cuz the time stuff in season two.

[@ZontarDow]

The existence of the fleet goes against everything about how Section 31 operates in the main universe, but the Discovery timeline seems to be much closer to the Kelvin timeline where Section 31 operates openly and officially like the CIA and NSA to today rather then secretly like the NSA did in its first decade of existence. And also works as one of the countless examples of why the distinction between pre-2006 Trek and the modern series is more then just used to figure out who gets how much royalties for merchandise sales based on designs and that the two are in fact unconnected distinct universes which is likely why Picard season 3 remains the only entry that made any attempt to tell a story that could fit in a single timeline (though due to how much was built on the first two seasons that remains a Discovery timeline series just one that implies many of the events of TNG also happened in a similar enough fashion in the Discovery timeline).

[@rc8937]

bah! No Trek after DS9 for me.

[@gimzod76]

They turned section 31 into the NKVD.

[@carlosT3000]

What took you so long to talk about section 31. Please do more Section 31 videos.

[@LoreReloaded]

I have quite a few actually

[@ryanventer9221]

You must be new.

[@ravenRedwake]

The Obsidian Order is a baller name.

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

I mean Section 31 is the federation's black ops and in our time those guys don't have budgets more like suggestions... Also Section 31 could also be Star trek's form of super science were in our time it's a well guarded "myth".

[@LoreReloaded]

I generally tend to agree. Who knows what resources starfleet command could move to the.

[@ts757arse]

For me this just goes well beyond what section 31 was meant to be. They were shown as a small group of elite and morally flexible individuals who kept all their data in their heads so as to leave no trace. Pressing a few select buttons from behind was the whole point. Now, I can see Section 31 putting code into starships that allows an operative to take control of them using features they'd placed here, there and everywhere. The complexity of such systems means small changes in each platform and compartmentalised information would make this relatively simple if it was a strategy put in place since the dawn of Starfleet. But whole fleets of ships? Nah. Maybe a couple of highly automated, minimally crewed ships with masses of small drones controlled by AI. But fleets? It's not about the ships, it's the supply lines, the basing, the training facilities for everyone involved. It'd be the worst kept secret ever. You'd probably need a clandestine section 31 planet with a decently populated city or two and a functioning society to do this kind of thing. In my view, they ruined section 31 with this nonsense. It turned a precision scalpel with dubious morality but an honorable goal into a poorly written mega villain.

[@PhilBesch]

I don't recognize anyone in these clips. Is this Star Trek or the adhd bad robot fan fiction?

[@LoreReloaded]

Star trek

[@PhilBesch]

@@KingValisFelix exactly!

[@spencer1980]

Star trek needs to update its lore. The federation has cloaking now.

[@nomercyinc6783]

inertial dampeners should prevent any of the crew from being thrown around the ship at ALL. that shit makes no sense in combination with the shields. shits fuckin stupid.. dont get me started on the rocks

[@knightingale9833]

Isn't the whole point of Section 31 that Starfleet IS it's fleet? When they need something done they have an Admiral hand down the Captain classified orders which the crew are not privy to.

[@JohnNathanShopper]

Bro!

[@danielgallant4986]

This crap was written by someone who had heard about the idea of section 31 and went "obviously they had a fleet." Sorry man I just can't get any of Paramount + crap

[@GalaxyheartStudio]

Man, discovery is a another timeline or parallel universe. I don't believe this history is the same universe tos and next generation 😂 is a joke for me STD is not existing. I have prove example, during last episode second season Michael goes to future 32 century or ever, is a court Martial's and all seniors stuff of the Enterprise denial a existing uss discovery ncc 1031 and sporo's drive simplicity the "ship's" not exist 😅 I believe is the best way to define this series.😮

[@cgmason7568]

Warships have ladders not stairs

[@mikewaterfield3599]

Could we not use Kurtzman blasphemy. BurntHam is not a Spock or even aware of his existence. Furthermore Spock is not a facial haired emo!

[@Sigurd_87]

I never liked the virtue signaling/preaching Starfleet used when talking about Section 31.