EXCESSIVE RANGED! - Noob Mistake #5 | Total War: Warhammer 2 Multiplayer Guide

[@May-dk4ej]

while it may not be optimal, I can say with certainty that my twelve units of Vampire Coast Gunnery mobs all vaporizing a single unit releases too much dopamine into my lizard brain to let me stop doing it, but thanks for the tips nonetheless.

[@carbon1255]

How does a lizardman get Vamp coast gunners? ;)

[@May-dk4ej]

@@carbon1255 With enough money.

[@fashionsuckman4652]

@@carbon1255 Certain sacrifices

[@salgarcia8021]

P.s a lot of mistakes you point out the new players do is from their conditioning from campaign. Might be a good mini series for you to do..talking about things that work on campaign that don't work in multiplayer.

[@tigermuppetcut]

That would be great!

[@daddysempaichan]

Maybe a collab with LegendofTotalWar, where they're up against an army and have to counter that army. They each make their own army and explain why they made it while the other side explains why it wouldn't work.

[@datuputi777]

All campaign things on multiplayer works just the same. All this people talking about stationary players but none of the examples corner camps, none of the players know which units are truly effective for how much you pay for and etc. The game didn't change at all it's just this time you have limited funds.

[@whereswally8695]

@@daddysempaichan 100% I followed the consensus for army compositions and would regularly get owned on higher difficulty settings. The two biggest things for new players to realise: 1) a build for campaign is completely different from a build for multiplayer 2) unit scale changes effectiveness of different units massively

[@salgarcia8021]

@@datuputi777 everyone is a product of their environment. He used the term "defensive play style". Which is a vald way to play but also is probably the safest way to handle battles in campaign with quite a few factions. The enemy a.i tends to charge you. I can have a Lord/hero front line with guns,flame throwers behind them never worry about the a.i trying to snipe them or even avoid them..they just run right into bullets/flames . He is trying to help players break bad habbits with these videos. Identifying the source can expedite the process.

[@Warpmek]

*laughs in Vampire Coast* Pistol mobs ARE the defence AND ranged! are they shit? Of course! But I'll have lots of them

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

sounds like the imperial guard

[@RandomBJJGuy]

Which is funny for this video because the hard counter is archer spam

[@janusceasar7851]

@@matthiuskoenig3378 sounds about right. They are meat shield, dont run(cant run in case of Commisar) and are pretty shitty than the Spesh marine unless we are talking about Cadian.

[@zackc3368]

*Raises Dead and has Mr Suicidy charge at them in the rear for a booming time! God I love Vamp Coast!

[@JD-hz9uk]

im definitely a sausage.. i love watching the arrows fly ...

[@agps4418]

which probably won't last for a long time heheh

[@HistoricalWeapons]

I love shooting arrows

[@Λυκάων]

"Laughs in High Elven" There is nothing more satisfying than finishing your enemy before they even get you

[@kjarllan7097]

Look at Asrai, speak for yourself

[@silc3ents74r]

If you lose due to excessive amounts of ranged, you clearly aren't using enough of it. NOT EXCESSIVE ENOUGH! MORE RANGED DAKKA!

[@DS-tv2fi]

1504245 Do you have enough dakka? No. There is never enough dakka.

[@Mechagodzilla128]

DE ONLY FING DAT ILL PROTEC MY RANGED IZ MOAR RANGED YA GIT!

[@Motorius9000]

Vampirates ahoy-yy! *BURY THEM IN CORPSES AND LEAD!*

[@jonsimpson6240]

Good old ranged dakka, so much better than that silly melee dakka.

[@DS-tv2fi]

jon simpson RAPID FIRE BATTLEAXE! ALL THE MELEE DAKKA!

[@kampfkeks0158]

Never too many ratling guns yes-yes

[@BenAHowell754]

Lothern Sea Guard: "Am I a joke to you?"

[@windflier1684]

yes, they sucks

[@zackc3368]

@@windflier1684 They also act as defensive unit for other archers allowing you to bring more to the front lines.

[@timothyhouse1622]

Sisters of Avelorn.

[@attila2246]

@@cotton9087 If your opponent has any magic your sisters will be the first thing deleted.

[@czardavid6710]

@@attila2246 not if you spam them and you have a maiden and your lord is alarielle

[@jongarrad5647]

Speaking as a single player... player: since I've been watching these videos I've been spacing out more (staying away from that Formation button, the wily minx) and putting more effort into getting a caster in all my armies, and I've just reached the point this video's talking about WRT where my missiles are coming from. Swapping out some of the Darkshards I hired at the start and never bothered to replace for Shades has made my campaign armies perform better, take fewer losses and so on. IDK if "less ranged" is the lesson so much as "unit variety" - some of those shots need to come from cavalry or skirmishers or flyers or something that doesn't just line up and plod. I agree campaign mode leads to some bad praxis (the state of that Empire army in the video is a LITTLE too close to my Khalida build for comfort), but take heart, Uncle Zerk: this stuff is helping yer campaign players play less like puddings too.

[@Higgs2244]

The issue is that on anything over easy the ai gets cheats in the campaign which means that enemy light infantry will just straight up beat your tier 5 units, guns do fixed damage. Guns win. If they can’t get to you in campaign they can’t beat you, 16ish high tier elf archers plus heroes are the most efficient stacks possible for campaign.

[@ktvindicare]

The issue I see here is that stacking missile units is the BEST way to play in campaign because thanks to the AI cheats that the units get, fighting in melee is horrible. So it's no surprise to me that a player used to playing vs the AI will adopt a lot of really bad habits when it comes time to playing vs players who DON'T have cheats on their units but who DO understand a lot better how to punish ranged units which the AI is utter crap at.

[@TheManofthecross]

unless it is darth mod or other mods that improves the AI to be formidable then they can be equal to players out right which is what I go for in my single player campagins find those mods that improve ai's combat tactics to keep you on your toes.

[@Eldiran1]

@@TheManofthecross ia improvement exist? thanks for the tips man , i never thinks this could be a thing any idea what great mod i need to put for that ? you speak about darth mod thanks again for that , ia was one of the biggest issue for this game , they have tons of bonus in game and they aren't really intelligent (especially on the map , diplomacy is not their thing , but maybe i played too much at europa universalis IV )

[@RoulicisThe]

@@Eldiran1 Yeah, I stopped playing in higher difficulty the moment I realised how much cheats the AI got. I mean : we don't like to see enybody cheat in a video-game, so why would I want to see an AI do the same?

[@bethbearmacethatguy]

@@RoulicisThe Because the AI is too stupid to play without them.

[@RoulicisThe]

@@bethbearmacethatguy Well then, let's make AI that are not stupid. Seriously : the AI of the old Total War game was actually better than the ones we've got the past couple of years, I think there is an issue here

[@TehAsianator]

Who else feels personally attacked?

[@euricoaw1535]

Im here

[@nicolasbarrancos3834]

I mean.... why else would i'd but the Realm of the Wood Elves dlc?

[@Kvzzzon]

Me, a proud noob player of Empire that use way too many ranged units and artillery :c

[@ZerosterBuilds]

>.> I bring 2/3 of my army as ranged, as green skins, and I have a pretty good win rate (80% I would say). (but I normally only play when unit caps are turned off because of my army comp.)

[@Mithguar]

they can tell this to my Ikit Claw army full of ratling gunners who can obliterate any infantry that tries to get close and just melts them. Supreme firepower is what you need. sure some crossbows and guns won't be enough but ratling gunners have just enough dakka to make it work xD

[@IFY0USEEKAY]

Mega ranged works quite well against the AI. It's probably where people start using them, mayhaps on campaign ...

[@TheNzFox]

yeah, you use a few elite blockers like a LL with regen or with campaign only items and your ranged never get touched so people start bringing more

[@hentaioverwhelming]

@@TheNzFox Or you play as Skaven with Ikit Claw, 3 warplock engineers, and the rest of the army stacked with LOTS of ratling gunners, 2-3 jezails, and 2-3 catapults and deploy in a square-like checkerbox formation emphasizing depth instead of width. I've generally outranged even elven archers with my ratling gunners mostly because of the warplock engineers.

[@jimmybobby9400]

Especially because on campaign you have to fight another battle. Ranged units replenish their ammo after each battle. Infantry take time to replenish their health. In Multi Player it's all about that W.

[@Aethgeir]

Yeah, I mostly just play campaign and am not much into multiplayer. Watching this series is like watching my play-style being described in detail! :P Campaign really trains you to do all the wrong things in multiplayer, especially against people who have been playing and evolving with the multiplayer meta.

[@andrewparker5096]

@@Aethgeir He does describe a few tricks that have helped me in campaign. Like staggering infantry and making gaps for flanking. Means I come out better off in more difficult battles. More important though is the fund limitation on multiplayer that doesn't need to apply in campaign.

[@raeking8151]

Zerkovich : *talks about how bad empire units are and proceeds to replace an army and buys.... war wagons ??*

[@Badbentham]

Just watched a video by Legend: Alot of ranting about how redundant Giants of all kinds and colors are in campaigns. However, he also mentions that about nearly any unit has at least some specific purpose. With two exceptions: Bloated Corpses ( only resurrect them when you obviously have no other choice...) , and yes, even worse: War Wagons. ;) And then he starts to talk how the latter might be at least a "counter" to the former.... :P

[@gabrielmontenegro9476]

@@Badbentham Yep. Just drive the wagons into the bloated corpse.

[@Nope-en9bo]

Badbentham I can’t count how many times I’ve been saved by bloated corpses. I use one to destroy 3 units of melee infantry (one time I fuckin destroyed 3 units of Phoenix Guards. fuck you Tyrion). War Wagons on the other hand...

[@kubaGR8]

@@Nope-en9bo Corpses have a lot of burst damage, but no sustain Wagons are the complete opposite. They have a fuckton of ammo, but only about 5 dudes firing at once.

[@euromanijak]

Meanwhile in campaign. How many missiles do you need? Yes!

[@_Meriwether]

So Zerk, are you saying my Dawi campaign army comprised of a Lord, Master Engineer, x2 Grudge Thrower, x2 Flame Cannon, x2 Bolt Thrower, x4 Irondrakes, x2 Irondrakes w/ Trollhammer torps, x2 Thunderers, x2 Rangers w/ Great Weapons and x2 Ironbreakers is too much ranged? **Cries in Dawi**

[@aname848]

Meriwether you can never have too many grudge throwers. How else will you settle those grudges?

[@jarrodbright5231]

It's a perfectly fine campaign army. It's just not a good approach in multiplayer or even custom battles against the AI

[@datuputi777]

@@jarrodbright5231 You sure? that's to expensive for an mp battle but if your willing lets limit your fund in mp way but this guy bring his campaign army. imo he might wipe the floor with your corpse without even touching the mouse by just corner camping. I'll let you into something your mp playstyle won't work on a head to head campaign.

[@TheManofthecross]

@@datuputi777 or against ai improving mods either then you will have no choice but to bring the campaign army to the fight.

[@jarrodbright5231]

@@datuputi777 if he wants to play that against my late game campaign doom stacks I'm sure I'd wipe the floor with him but that's irrelevant since multiplayer armies are funds limited and I'm sure my 18 star dragon campaign doom stack will be even higher cost than his army. It's completely irrelevant though. My point is using that high a percentage of ranged units in multiplayer or even a custom battle against the AI where there are equal funds on both sides is going to get you flanked and beaten.

[@MrDorkbot]

You're telling me I shouldn't bring 5 helstorm rocket batteries? That's heresy!

[@Sevorsin]

One tip that helped me greatly in shogun 2 was "if you attack you can control the fight if you defend you react to the fight "

[@grandengineernathan]

Everyone: everything can disrupt your missiles Me: laughs in lore of light

[@napke8571]

Hehe grapjas we say in the Netherlands. I play Empire a lot, you can perfectely make a well balanced army that blows half an oponent from the field even before melee combat starts. It is entirely on you what your style of playing is and wath kind if oponent there is. But in general Empire, High Elves, Wood Elves and Dwarves can bring devestating missile armies to the field.

[@Atercor-kx8hs]

*confused Noctilus doomstack noises* Jokes aside tho, this is actually a pretty good point. I used to suffer from this mistake horribly during my early days of playing.

[@acheron16]

When CA makes high level AI use less melee cheats, then the bridge between Singleplayer and Multiplayer will be closer. As it stands, Singleplayer heavily punishes melee, with ridiculous shit like Empire Archers winning in melee against Dire Wolves in 1v1.

[@randomlygeneratedname]

Or how skinks can take out depth guard in harder difficulty

[@tonyfranksland428]

Yea so in single player we can play more missile unit lol

[@delivererofdarknessshoguno1133]

A recording of a dialogue between a chaos chosen and an Empire spearman: -Hoh? You are charging me instead of routing, pathetic mortal? -I can't use all these cheat buffs that I get on legendary without getting closer.

[@knavenformed9436]

Do they cheat on normal too? I feel like my starting Dark Elf units are paper compared to the enemy mirror match.

[@Nimer420]

@@knavenformed9436 I don't think so but it could very well just be LL buffs making theirs a bit beefier?

[@DoM1B21]

I find your lack of range...disturbing

[@parthaprotimbarua603]

Are you from India or Bangladesh brother?

[@DoM1B21]

@@parthaprotimbarua603 India brother!

[@fabioscordo9653]

First of all i would like to thank you for the great contenent about warhammer, it really helped me a lot understanding some key mechanics of the online battle. With that being said tho, don't you think it's a bit odd that in 2020 we still don't get to have a Matchmaking where noobs can play against eachother and not get completely overwhelmed by pros?

[@Zerkovich]

Yup! They definitely need better match making. And thanks!

[@cptcatnip6367]

The Gobbo King once said in one of his older streams that a good rule of thumb is to bring about 3 infantry for every missle unit u bring. so lets say i bring a canon as empire vs bretonia, i need about 2 spears to protect in the back (vs cav and skirmishers) and about 1 unit to hold back if the frontline trys to break through. deciding what you need the most depends on your enemy faction. if you play against a mobile faction 2 spears in the back and 1 unit for the frontline and vice versa for a less mobile enemy. edit: formating and flashing out the example.

[@bubbasbigblast8563]

That's not affordable: it's better to send one unit back from the frontline than to keep two units guarding one in the back. It's all about having an onion, really: you want as many defensive layers as you can, so long as they can still support each-other. That way, the enemy has to run a long way while being exposed to 100% fire (which you won't get when your units obstruct them.)

[@tomaszjackowski1981]

I have around 100 hours in TW2 and mostly play single player and still learn new things from your videos. Thank you very much, this makes my campaign battles easier.

[@OniGanon]

His videos are for online multiplayer battles. Campaign is a very different environment, where ranged units are much more valuable than normal. It's perfectly fine for a Campaign army to have something like 5-8 ranged units.

[@akshayjb8205]

I can clearly hear the orks shouting "MORE DAKKA !!!"

[@therealdezza90]

The one time KZbin Recommendation was on point. Two seconds uptime of the Video.

[@samuvasc]

Zerkovich I would love to see a guide by you on "High dificulty Siege attack guide: Tips and tricks, optimised army comps, cheesy tatics and other ways to overcome overwhelmed odds when attacking" as Siege attacks are a huge part of the campaign and unfortunately one of the worst parts of it.

[@alpharius7755]

samuvasc if you want cheese go to legend of total war and search how to not suck at sieges, basically you will be able to overcome anything

[@samuvasc]

@@alpharius7755 Thank you dude, will look into it. Have my 'like'.

[@calebcampbell9280]

For most factions you just need something that can destroy missile towers and then sieges are hilariously easy. The AI never goes on the offensive so you can methodically clean the walls with localized missile superiority, flying units, and/or certain spells. From there you can walk in and clean up the stragglers without much issue.

[@isitnotwrittenthat1680]

I know I'm late, but my solution to sieges with beasts has been minotaurs, upgrading to shatterstone from my camp early

[@zechariahsteiger4325]

"doesn't have enough time to protect his ranged units" obviously hasn't heard of the Cheese master Legend

[@tonyfranksland428]

Nah Legend knows Single player campaign, but this is multiplay battle

[@zechariahsteiger4325]

@@tonyfranksland428 True, I'd forgotten that

[@tonyfranksland428]

Basically in single player Ai got cheat so melee is not a great option to play, but missile units doesn't care about enemy cheats, thus Ai is not smart enough to focus on certain missile unit, but on the other hand the real player will focus on killing missile unit first.

[@tonyfranksland428]

So why that is not a cheat lol they had various way to make harder difficulty actually hard, but instead they give ai more buff than player lol

[@zechariahsteiger4325]

@@andre12388 indeed, I was talking in the context of Legendary difficulty

[@SnlDrako]

"Try bringing less missile units" *Looks at his Vampire Counts army* *sad n00b noises*

[@MustbeTheBassest]

Wow, such good points at the end! Those different match-ups really give you a chance to use units you otherwise wouldn't want.

[@Azrael79a]

I like ranged units that are also really strong in melee, like steam tanks and dinosaurs with cannons on their backs lol.

[@fauxgoose3384]

I've always found that missiles follow the rule of diminishing returns; the more you have, the less you get. I can't count the times that just three, *three* missile units have absolutely wrecked my army. You don't need lots of missiles, you just need to manage them and protect them effectively. Missile units are really, *really* good in Warhammer. Some of the more ranged-focused factions can dish out 3000 damage in a single volley (in other words, 1/3 of a Stegadon in a single volley). Giving your missile units the time to fire and acquire the most value (use all their ammunition) is far more important and effective than spamming missile and hoping to shoot everything to death before they get to you because that just doesn't work. For MP, of course. Missile spam is really good against the AI because the AI hates to flank with infantry. And nice video Zerky.

[@tex4096]

I believe that has to do with things such as: lack of good targets, more to micro and less to defend.

[@krell2130]

@@tex4096 I'm gonna grab a Dr Pepper from the cooler, put it on my tab

[@baka5626]

Laughs in ikit claw

[@chrisstanton70]

lol on campaign i played skaven and made a stack consisting of Ikit Claw, Warlock Eng, 2x clan rats(stands behind ranged), 2x Grinders(guards the flanks), 1x doomflayer, 1x doomwheel, 4x rattling gun(front line), 2x jezzales, 3x warpfire cannons, 3x catapults I know its campaign but its still fun watching the mayhem lol. My worst enemy is me not seeing a mild slope that my rattling guns cant shoot over

[@auroraourania7161]

This is part of why I like Hogh Elves. With Lothern Sea Guard, your protection is also a ranged unit. Not like you can bring enough spearmen to protect more than one or two ranged units. Just add a couple silver helms to smash whatever attacks the LSG and you can easily bring 7+ ranged units and get good value out of them. At least against factions whose infantry isn't powerful enough to smash through spearmen super quickly. Teclis is good for those kinds of builds too since he can net stuff in place if it gets past your defenses. Plus, if you bring a sister or two, his kindleflame will mean that they'll annihilate basically anything that lacks silver shields or better during that net. Sisters are also not bad at defending themselves against stuff like zombie or clan rat summons.

[@tex4096]

This is not true, when using Lothern Seaguard to defend your front and rear they will almost never get value. You pay for all 20 arrows and you will only get to fire about three of them before you get stuck in melee. A very poor trade considering their lackluster melee stats.

[@motog4221]

Lothern sea guard with shields behind pheonix guard works well. They support with arrows where possible, and with spears when necessary. They can refuse the flanks or advance through breaches to find the enemy flank or rear. They can resist a cavalry charge and go toe to toe with monsterous infantry.

[@jarrodbright5231]

That's... very expensive for multiplayer. Phoenix Guard are 1400 each, Sea Guard with Shields are 750 each. That's either a very small battle line (getting flanked easily) or an army with nothing else in it (again getting flanked easily). Phoenix Guard are really bad when they get flanked because they won't be braced to negate charge bonuses.

[@RoulicisThe]

@@jarrodbright5231 Yeah, for the same price you could bring 2 greatswords + 2 crossbows with the empire, and elves lacking HP I'm not sure they could win a 2v1 battle, even with their great stats and martial prowess

[@juliuspavilovskis4862]

*laughs in dwarven armor and leadership*

[@lebigfrog2079]

Laughs in throwing axe and higher mobility

[@Megaman8880]

Thank you Zerk for making these noob videos. You've been a huge help for me.

[@lachlanmckinnie1406]

"You fucking sausage." I'm stealing that.

[@thekillertaco5432]

*looks at my vampirates army with lord, 5 depth guard, 4 mortars, 8 gunnery mobs and 2 necrofex* There is a reason I don't leave the campaign

[@jsven007]

Superb work on this video series Zerkovich!! I have followed and watched your whole series and you do a phenomenal job!!

[@warhammerguy]

Zerkovich: Dont bring to many ranged units! LegendofTotalWar: *Make 20 stack missile armies!*

[@Zerkovich]

Not in Multiplayer you won't. Hoorah for unit caps.

[@jasperzanovich2504]

I usually have 6 ranged units in my army but that is in campaign with a full 20 unit army. The rules for PvP are very different from PvE in pretty much every game.

[@RoulicisThe]

limited fundings makes bringing a full stacked army pretty difficult to do. How we should interpret this is more like this : I usually balance my army at (6/20)*100 = 30% missile units

[@xenonchikmaxxx]

cmon for campaign you can have 16 ranged units and it would be ok

[@ephemispriest8069]

D-did he just call me a sausage?

[@spartaxjp5073]

A FUkkin Sausage!!! (Ramsey bolton meme)

[@babyspine]

this is the best warhammer 2 channel for guides and your editing is pretty damn good as well. I will have to apply these tactics to my gameplay and head online to battle!!!

[@chickendrawsdogs3343]

Making the enemies fight in the shade!!!

[@krackerface]

Im brand new to this series of games i fell in love hard and i am so grateful for your vids im admittedly terrible at the game atm but just the few tips ive seen from you have helped tremendously all that to say thanks for the vids

[@CharCole]

Turning the camera to the horde of orks, I was just in that Bretonians mindset and just thought "Oh no..."

[@czechmeoutbabe1997]

I feel so called out by this video even though I’ve been playing total war for years, decades maybe. Guess I learned these habits from campaign and never really changed.

[@lachlanmckinnie1406]

I'm the same. I started with the original Rome: Total War, so I've still got some habits stuck from that and Medieval 2. And in RTS games I've always been fond of turtling strategies, so defensive is almost like a default for me with most factions. Though I do it less with Warhammer, as Vampire Counts are my favourite faction.

[@indigo7898]

Having melee in campaign is just frustrating You literally click on an enemy and the unit will instantly react to it, its just not fun

[@Fischdosepremium]

*cries in vampire coast*

[@megaplexXxHD]

2:21 in all my years of total war ive never seen such a smooth arrow drawing :O

[@andrewgodly5739]

Well ranged units are good for preserving your army. Since online matches are all about maximizing damage output and disregarding unit survivability ranged units aren't that great. The only way to get a true strategic experience is to play campaign because you have a reason to preserve your army, it's more like reality. In campaign mode you can lose a battle but still win the war, retreating is a valid option. While in online battles all that matters is winning the battle

[@Zerkovich]

The battle ai is nowhere near reality. It's senseless charging for the most part. Playing another person is the way battles should be played.

[@TheGreatUnwashedThing]

@@Zerkovich I've been playing Total War exclusively single player since the first Rome and TBH its been a running problem with the series that the single player campaign rapidly becomes more like a Grand Strategy game through mass auto-resolving because the alternative is endlessly repitive battles with a fairly stupid AI. Which was fine in the more historical Total War games but it feels significantly less satisfying in Warhammer and to a lesser extent Attila.

[@tex4096]

Spamming 20 Stegosaurs, ah yes. The true strategic realism.

[@guppyitsallgood]

Online matches aren't all about maximising damage and disregarding survivability, if it was people would run frontline sisters of slaughter or shades with great weapons. But generally, they don't. People will run line infantry, with 1 or 2 elite infantry backing up, one unit of witch elves because rampage is a scalpel that wins matches. Multiplayer is all about maximising your chances of success, being efficient with your funds, and winning at all costs generally takes you pretty close to losing from leadership penalties. If you don't preserve your army as best you can, you're probably throwing units away that could clutch you a lategame victory. A multiplayer battle is all about balanced unit choices to tackle a variety of potential threats. Cheese simply isn't that viable, unlike campaign which is wildly unrealistic because the ai has no concept of recruiting or countering a faction.

[@KhanBloodBowl]

HELL YES!! Im so grateful that you make such videos for noobs! Im total Total War Warhammer noob, I want to play rating battles and I can’t find normal videos for beginners on Warhammer. Every my fucking battle is disaster, i lose probably 25 of 30 games. Thank you for such vid

[@andrewroland7436]

Don't you dare call me a sausage, sir! I'm definitely a hot dog!

[@TheRealStoneyGames]

i think these videos are great bc i dont get to play multiplayer so its nice to see how different they are. bc in campaign if you bring too many melee troops you are basically guaranteed to lose (bc AI cheats) so missile spam + distraction ends up being the best way to play most factions (any with decent ranged anyway). take the skaven doomstack for example, the only melee troops are either 4 hellpits or doomwheels and the rest arty and missiles so that definitely explains the fondness for missiles a lot of "noobs" have

[@WolfA4]

You'll never get me to give up my Ratling guns and Jezzails!

[@omganotherun]

"Too many missiles" - LegendofTotalWar would like to know your location.

[@FifinatorKlon]

"Always use protection" Oh, had I known this a bit over a year ago lol

[@jklas4591]

Hundreds of hours in Rome, hundreds of hours of Medieval, hundreds of hours of Empire, hundreds of hours of Shogun 2, hundreds of hours in Warhammer 1... Could you please make a video of a noob mistake I am NOT making?

[@silentbutterfly5036]

Legendoftotalwar: Hold my beer. *doomstack of 19 missile units

[@Zerkovich]

This isn't Campaign yo.

[@Draffut2003]

How many waywatchers can I buy for 12,400?

[@madness..3449]

Before 10:25: "What in Heaven's name are you talking about? Me, the proud vampirate player, shouldn't sit there, showering landlubbers in lead?! How dare yarrr!!!" After 10:25: "OK...Guess you're not gotta go feeding the fishes just yet..."

[@miclo20011]

“I ask no questions. I tell no lies. I got big missile units, and all of them died...”

[@MrDioXIII]

Less static ranged, more protection and skirmish units. Got it. *Cries in Dawi*

[@RoulicisThe]

Don't worry dwarf friend, you got rangers to play with ^^

[@raikaria3090]

Worth noting that generally stationary; infantry missiles counter Skirmishers, since they usually outrange and outdamage. Especially things like Shielded Darkshards.

[@nopens]

Than you, i keep struggling with mid to late game empire armies. I just like steampunk guns and artillery shoot hordes too much to stop recruiting them.

[@SirTimbo]

the army slot has value all its own as well since most multiplayer games are only allotted a 20 stack anyways, the army slot value also increases as funds increase/decrease along with it, like bringing 10-12 skavenslaves would be pretty cheap it is still a pretty big investment into army slots, leaving only 7 after your lord.

[@NoOne-dz8mf]

It's a great job, as always.

[@thebiggun6663]

But what about units like the free company or Lothern sea guard?

[@ktvindicare]

Lothern Sea Guard are pretty expensive, (as are all High Elf units) if you bring too many of them you won't have any money for much else. As for Free Company, I'm not sure, I don't play much Empire myself but I rarely see them. They're basically bad infantry (slightly worse than Boyz or Swordsman) but who can deal a decent amount of missile damage if you leave them alone. Still, being melee units, I don't see them getting to just fire unharassed much in a typical battle unless you're severely outnumbering your enemy.

[@RoulicisThe]

Militians aren't that bad in the campaign, but in multiplayer... They're just meh : no shields, not great stats and even though they got some missile damage the range is simply too short. The only way to get reliable value is to have them shoot from the flanks... So you're basically taking a melee unit out of your frontline to try and do damage that even a basic archer would outcompete >

[@Guaccc]

You still want those units firing at range where they generate the most value, only having them fight in melee when they have no ammo or when there is no other option(much better if there is).

[@tex4096]

Still no, everyone of them will only be able to fire one volley. Not worth it.

[@RoulicisThe]

And they're worse than regular swordsmen in melee while having no shield to tank a bit of missile fire. You get better value out of swordsmen than militians

[@dannyavarice]

That's one thing I never thought. I didn't think the Empire was a noob friendly faction. Through this video I was thinking, "Why would defensive noobs EVER pick Empire? Go with Dwarves." Even their cheaper infantry have the sustain you need. You run more of the risk of being out maneuvered, but your Imperial handgunners aren't gonna outrun Rat Ogres or Cav anyway. Really good advice in this video. Magic and Missiles take a bit to get used to and noobs bringing a lot of either won't do them any favors until they learn to properly defend and micro those units.

[@iforgotmyname1669]

Wait, my 20 stack of necrosphinx colossus isn't a good multilayer army? But it works so well in campaign.

[@thehistorians5231]

its a good army...but its way too expensive 1 necro costs 1900 you only have 12400 so....

[@MrRoboticeyes]

This explain why I have so much trouble just to capture grunburg against those seccesionist. I'm sorry Karl Franz, I will try to be better.

[@justrobin8155]

Thank you, Uncle Zerk. Every video makes me slightly less garbage.

[@hamaru7642]

It's very interesting to see how different campaign and multiplayer is 🤔 in the campaign ranged units are the best, because the AI does not care about losses and charges right into you. That's why IMHO the Lothern Sea guard with shields is the best infantry in the campaign: Its a good ranged infantry, it's okish in melee and isn't to expensive. That's why my best army consists of 16 Lothern Sea Guards/shields, 2 Phoenixes (sometimes dragons) , 1 eagle claw and Tyrion.

[@jarrodbright5231]

Try using Sisters of Averlorn instead. They're basically better Sea Guard at the same upkeep cost

[@hippegast12]

@@jarrodbright5231 sisters are DLC not everyone has them.

[@hamaru7642]

@@hippegast12Sadly I don't have the DLC otherwise I would use them.

[@hippegast12]

@@hamaru7642 just wait for summer sales on steam. Dlc gets pretty cheap most times

[@zackc3368]

"You fucking sausage" LOVE that insult :D

[@570y3n]

I gave up multiplayer because I never won a single battle. This is quite possibly the reason. I'm a Total War Sausage for sure. I love my Tomb Queen.

[@sirmitri6666]

One of my best of High elves were 4 archer, 4 sea guard. 4 spearman an 2 white lions of grace, and it destroy everything.

[@KartarNighthawk]

Another possible solution: bring hybrid units. Lothern Seaguard, Free Company Militia, even "decent melee combatant," units like Orc Arrer Boyz and Marauder Hunters, can all protect themselves to a large extent.

[@srdjan455]

Zerkovick: fucking low tier skaven Melee units Legendoftotalwar: Don't bother with high tier skaven Melee units, you get more value from the low tiers I'm confused

[@toversnoleu8769]

But, but, but Jezzails and Ratling gunz…!!!

[@lunariclunestra8335]

Oh wow I did that noob mistake. But I learned it from Rome Total War II. I used to have an army with 10 phalax and 10 rangeds, put them all in a corner so the enemy runs at a wall of spear, can't flank and my missle units just chew away the frontline. Worked like a charm. But wow TW Warhammer is so different.

[@romanatorx3949]

"you fucking sausage" - is that a compliment?

[@KarimBellot]

the thing im noticing is I am bringing "bad habits" from older TW series. Magic is one thing that I was often like "wtf was that about". And don't even get me started on monsters and flying units xD but its good, makes me feel like im re-learning to play TW.

[@damjanjelic4970]

9:41 "Fewer.." - Stannis Baratheon, Lord of grammar

[@SKILL3RS101]

As others have said, this comes from campaign. I don't play multiplayer very often at all (just don't enjoy it) but in campaign ranged units are far more efficient for the losses that they take. Swordmasters might kill more than your archers, sure, but they'll also take a lot longer to replenish afterwards. A ranged unit operating well takes minimal casualties, whereas a melee one is bound to take damage. If it was just a single battle, then it wouldn't matter, but in the campaign due to replenishment, it can have an impact. That, and on higher difficulties the AI cheats like mad, which just makes all melee fights completely useless.

[@sindra309]

*laughs in Lothern Sea guard*

[@jarrodbright5231]

One point that is kind of missing from this video is that ranged units that can defend themselves are a little bit less vulnerable, but you're still picking those Sea Guard or Rangers to shoot not to fight in melee because you didn't remember to bring/deploy protection for them. You might not need as much protection since they can assist with that role but you still want them shooting as much as possible. I did the math on my usual ranged package and it's a little under 20% of my army but half of them can defend themselves meaning I need a little bit less protection than I otherwise would to keep them firing profitably.

[@icewindofchange]

Its so happened in campaign, that after a huge battle with chaos mostly my ranged survived. Next battle, with a weakened chaos I had to play with 70% ranged units. It was a hell of a battle

[@Galdenberry_Lamphuck]

You need a staunch line of spears for your proud people

[@WurstWasser617]

Legend wants a word

[@1chefadam]

One of the best days in your life....when TW2 finally “clicks” one day while you’re playing

[@HistoricalWeapons]

I miss Rome 2 I could just spam horse archers

[@spikegarzilla586]

13 noobs didn't like being called out for their excessive ranged

[@Average.Enjoyer555]

archer spam is really strong. Put them in checkerboard formation and you're set.

[@abcdef-cs1jj]

I think the main problem why newer players are so defensive is because the game mechanically teaches them to be in singleplayer for two reasons: 1) Most of the time, the enemy will simply charge in your direction without much maneuvering, allowing you time to shoot them and maybe countercharge at the last second. 2) The mechanics of the game aren't really making offense a fun alternative. Yes, you can move your army up and keep your formation with some hassle, but you will have to order every single unit in your battleline to attack the enemy in front of them (instead of just telling the whole line to advance). The option to order a group of units to move forward and attack would be as welcome for TW as attack-move was for old school rts.

[@ruugyaku5347]

no no no no no, the problem is not all that proectile, the problem is to use hellstorm battery

[@Changelingineveryway]

I don't need to worry about ranged stacking, you see, because my black ark corsairs have no problems whipping out a sword

[@xyzen9673]

Laughs in vampire counts. What are ranged units? *Cries in vampire counts*

[@mattscott4792]

The lesson I learned from this: The Seahawks really need to spend more money on the O-Line to protect Russell Wilson.

[@ImperatorTrajun]

First faction I played as is von Carstein, I quickly figured out that skeleton spamming is viable until you conquer most of the empire and can move onto Grave Guards and Cairn wraiths