Exemption 3585 & 17347 Explained for Airline Pilots & Dispatchers Part 121 Weather Mins & Alternates

[@wrxsnowman]

Fantastic presentation! For whatever reason, I couldn't wrap my head around these exemptions. Sometimes just reading them isn't enough to comprehend. Being able to hear and see their examples helped me understand them. I'm about to take my ATP oral and I was fuzzy on these exemptions. Thanks a lot!

[@LauraLaster747]

I am so glad to hear that it was helpful to you! They are confusing for sure!

[@AnthonyJohnson-pu9ie]

It's crystal clear. Thanks!

[@LauraLaster747]

I’m so glad you learned from it!

[@dhammer87]

Thanks!

[@LauraLaster747]

You are welcome!!! Thank you so much for supporting!

[@mrsatanps]

wow. THIS IS an explanation. thanks for taking the time to digest all the info and present it like this. no further questions!

[@LauraLaster747]

I'm so glad you were helped by this one! It was at the request of a friend of mine going through pilot training who wanted a better explanation to share with others also in training.

[@darrenlucas786]

Thank you so much!!! That really helped me. Just starting at an airline and had trouble getting my mind round that. You made it clearer!! I also loved the one on derived mins too! Please keep this type of stuff coming! Really helps me! Thank you!!!

[@LauraLaster747]

I’m so glad I was able to help you understand! I love feedback that tells me you learned something. What other topics would you like to hear about that I haven’t covered?

[@thelaw300]

Top marks Laura. Fantastic information!

[@LauraLaster747]

Thanks so much for the feedback and for watching!

[@flywithjoshhuber]

Laura- great vid! What is the difference between 3585 and 17347?

[@LauraLaster747]

So from what I can gather, the FAA gives airlines a number for their exemption. Some seem to have 3585 and others are given 17347, and others have a totally different number and maybe a slight modification of the exemption, tailored for their operations. I’m not an FAA employee, however, so I don’t have full details on why there are different numbers.

[@casperscared]

Thank you Laura! This helped me tremendously!

[@LauraLaster747]

You are welcome!!! Thank you for watching and letting me know!

[@13htorrespr]

Excellent video! Clear and concise! THANK YOU!

[@LauraLaster747]

I am so glad you liked it! Thank you for watching!

[@HazellRahh]

Well done! You missed the "REAL" reason 3585 is listed on the Release: To let the crew know they're going to have to work that day ; )

[@LauraLaster747]

Ha ha! You are absolutely right on that one! (In talking with crews, it's also a heads up to communicate clearly with dispatch on the plan if the one alternate is not usable since frequently not enough fuel is loaded to go to both alternates.)

[@cazpoll5]

Laura, the part that im having a hard time with is at 3:37. I see that the weather at our destination may be no less than half the required visibility, does this mean that our ceiling still has to be at or above the required visibility for the approach? Yet at our 1st alternate our visibility AND ceiling can both be lowered to not more than half?

[@LauraLaster747]

Thanks for watching! At a destination, under part 121 rules, there is no ceiling required for flying an instrument approach (in the United States). That is why there is no mention of ceiling at the destination. An alternate for part 121 does require both ceiling AND visibility, so both get cut in half with this exemption. Does that help?

[@cazpoll5]

Ahh this helps very much, I didn't know 121 isn't held to reported ceilings. So for example, a 30 min flight, at the destination the metar is reporting 150 agl ceilings and 1 sm vis. The approach procedure calls for mins of 200-1. The pilot may dispatch and attempt the approach because they are only held to the 1 sm vis, regardless of ceiling?

[@LauraLaster747]

@@cazpoll5​​⁠yes, and in the scenario you described, there is no need for the exemptions because the weather indicates 1 sm and that’s what is required

[@mikehill23]

Hey mate, thank you for taking the time to explain this. Much appreciated!

[@LauraLaster747]

I am really glad it was helpful to you!!!

[@brunomesquita2151]

Keep going Laura !

[@LauraLaster747]

I will! What other topics would be helpful?

[@brunomesquita2151]

@@LauraLaster747 I guess the 121 regs are a must . You break them down so well . A great tool for ATP test prep

[@MrViniAU]

Wow, thank you!

[@LauraLaster747]

So glad you enjoyed it!

[@jazzleee]

You are awesome. Thank you so much for breaking it down.

[@LauraLaster747]

So glad that you enjoyed the explanation! This can be a difficult one to understand!

[@madcowhookerslayer]

Thank you

[@LauraLaster747]

You are so welcome!!!

[@sternbuddha]

Awesome video! I may have missed it but the alternate minimums that you would be using is derived alternate minimums correct? Then the conditional language cannot be lower than 1/2 your derived alternate minimums? As an example, you use ILS 28L and ILS 28R in SFO as your first alternate and figure out that your derived minimums would be 400' and 1m. Then the conditional language cannot be lower than 200 and 1/2? Thank you for the awesome videos again!

[@sternbuddha]

Just having a hard time figuring out if derived alternate minimums and exemption 17347 are related to each other.

[@LauraLaster747]

Hello! Glad you liked the video. Yes, for the alternate minimums, you would be using the derived alternate minimums. The conditional language cannot be lower than half the derived alternate minimums for the first alternate. For the example you mentioned, if SFO is your first alternate, then if you derived 400' and 1 sm, your minimums under 3585 could be as low as 200' and 1/2 sm. But the second alternate must meet the derived alternate minimums in the FM, TEMPO, PROB, or BECMG groups of the TAF.

[@sternbuddha]

@@LauraLaster747 thank you for clearing that up!

[@chrisr855]

So if there is no Tempo or prob at both the destination and 1st alternate we wouldn't be able to use this exemption?

[@LauraLaster747]

That is correct. It can’t be used for a FM or BECMG forecast at destination or first alternate.

[@william0203usa2]

Thanks for this video. How much is the dispatcher's course at Letorneau? any reduced courses for atps?

[@LauraLaster747]

Hello! Our course is integrated with either an Associate's degree or Bachelor's degree program focusing on Aviation Management with a concentration on Dispatch. More info on tuition etc. is here: www.letu.edu/academics/aviation/aircraft-dispatch-as.html Regarding the reduced hour ATP (R-ATP), LeTourneau is approved for the R-ATP depending on the degree! We have all that info here: www.letu.edu/academics/aviation/restricted-atp-certificate.html

[@LauraLaster747]

And the best way to get more information is to get in touch with our Admissions team: www.letu.edu/admissions/index.html so they can talk more specifically with you about financial aid options, schedule a visit, etc.

[@vincealbano808]

When do you use Exemption 17347? Is it only when your alternate doesn’t meet the minimums?

[@LauraLaster747]

It can be used if your alternate or destination have a TEMPO or PROB line preventing the operation...so not in ALL cases of not meeting the minimums.

[@tiffany51793]

Thanks Laura , do u know any Univrrsity that provide Master that would gives the R-ATP?

[@LauraLaster747]

I am not 100% sure what you are asking - there are many universities that have Master's degree programs in aviation. I have not seen them specifically tie that to a Master's degree. The FAA's guidance on the R-ATP is found in Advisory Circular AC 61-139 says this is tied to a Bachelor's degree program.

[@HanSolo1]

I have been looking for a good source that specifies that “conditional language” does not apply to FM and Becoming, do you have one? It would be most appreciated, thank you.

[@LauraLaster747]

I have found some good information for you through searching around in the FAA's Dynamic Regulatory System. This legal interpretation is short, but then it has pages of other legal interpretations that apply. drs.faa.gov/browse/excelExternalWindow/FAA000000000LEGALINTPR2007004PDF.0001 If this link does not work, please let me know so I can find some other way to email you the PDF I downloaded from the FAA to answer this for you (hopefully!)

[@LauraLaster747]

By the way - excellent question!

[@sce2aux464]

"I also like to live dangerously..."

[@LauraLaster747]

Ha ha ha - right! It’s an exemption that demands careful use of the allowance to not follow those regulations!