We Lived on Portuguese Minimum Wage and This Is What Happened

Minimum wage in Portugal is currently 820 euros a month. Josh and Kalie from ExpatsEverywhere take the challenge of living off of this for 30 days. Will they be able to do it? How does it feel? Could you do it?
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Hi! We’re Josh and Kalie, expats since 2009. We’ve lived in Spain, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, and now Portugal (we know, we broke the “S” streak 😅). Follow ExpatsEverywhere for expat interviews, city breakdowns, travel tips, and more to help you live your best life abroad!
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[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thank you for all the comments. We've read through a lot of them and for the sake of time, we'd like to put a few notes here to give more context for those that commented already. 1. We've been living in our current apartment for nearly 3 years so it's more like 2021 prices not current market. 2. Many Portuguese that we know have been living in their houses/apartments for way way longer than that. We actually don't know any people personally that have tried to move during this market price increase so we'd image the majority of minimum wage workers are living in an apartment way cheaper than ours or possibly living with family, which does cause other issues. 3. We learned that to really have a chance at making minimum wage for several years, one would need to look at the bonus months where there's an extra paycheck (remember Portuguese get paid 14 times not 12) that 1 of those extra checks should be for emergency funds and 1 of those should be put towards investments. The emergency fund could go to things that many of you brought up in the video. We hope you all have a great day. - Josh & Kalie

[@andrecamacho7660]

What a poor content of yours

[@dynamic4sky285]

I live in California, the richest US state, and the world's 5th economy, and people here living on minimum wage are either homeless or living in very serious and difficult conditions, and if they get seriously sick they go broke or die because of the disease, that doesn't happen in Portugal.

[@chamomilesmith2218]

biggest, not richest. DC, NY, MA, WA are ahead of CA in terms of per capita.

[@KikiAndJeffreyPearl]

And the rich are moving out of California at a rapid rate

[@KikiAndJeffreyPearl]

And the rich are moving out of California at a rapid rate

[@Mikesadventures-m2q]

You can always move to TJ! :)

[@letsdoit_k]

Most liberal state in the US too. There's much more to your story. California doesn't fix poverty. They enable it.

[@lindadorman2869]

This is what it is like living on a fixed income such as Social Security or a pension. If you get sick, need car or home repairs, or have other unexpected expenses, you have to cut something else like food. Or take money from your savings if you have any. Every day is a constant struggle just to pay bills, and it's exhausting to worry about money all the time. If you are alone, you have half of what you two had, plus the burden of managing everything yourself. It is not a good life.

[@riumudamc4686]

this is what happens when we vote to replace family and neighbors with government programs that slimy politicians have made people dependent on. Amish don't have this problem

[@shawn47240]

Lol I live in Indiana. The Amish definitely have this problem.

[@ricardoxavier827]

@@riumudamc4686 Family ideology are fascism. I am porto citizen. We are invicta liberal city. Romans never win Arabs never win you dont win.

[@ricardoxavier827]

@@riumudamc4686 you are lucky that youtube opress porto citizens.

[@voice.of.reason]

Unemployment benefit is not supposed to be a good life or struggle free, or many people would rather not work - like is becoming the case in the UK

[@hankryan8164]

Minor hack..if you allow 100 euros to be withdrawn from your Millennium checking each month and put in your savings, the monthly fee drops to 5 euros per month. If you withdraw from savings back to your checking account in any given month, the fee goes up for that one time withdrawal.

[@MariaSilva-ix1qc]

Most Portuguese community are very disciplined with money, they can make the most with what they have. They live better with little every month, with healthy home cooked meals, that proves that, at the end of the day less is more ...be happy😊

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thanks for the comment. Blessings to you. - Josh & Kalie

[@asiaticonaeuropa]

local portuguese who earn 800/month do not live in the more rural area. Go for Central Portugal, rent is half of what you are paying now....If a person earn 800 euros/month, he/she rents a room 200E to live. Not the whole apartment.

[@gladysp2623]

Definitely an eye opener for how the Portuguese people try to survive on this minimum wage, explains why many don’t go out much and bring the party home. Thanks for this amazing video. 😊

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

We definitely lived this experience differently. We actually see a lot of Portuguese people do their social life a little different like going to the cafe everyday, which we think would be around €60 per month to have a coffee and pastry. Going to a cafe where you know everyone is healthy social time for sure. We lived this in a way that we knew how. Thanks for watching. - Josh & Kalie

[@ricardoxavier827]

@@ExpatsEverywhere "Going to a cafe where you know everyone is healthy social time for sure." Correct. For a lot of us, Cafe are the second family.

[@gailkarrer6041]

This is how I live in Greece at age 75, with one small pension from Austria and on from the US. I am here helping my daughter care for her grandchildren. I can get by, but it is depressing after a while, especially if you are capable of working.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thanks for sharing, Gail. Nice to hear from you and we appreciate you watching from Greece. Many blessings to you, your daughter and grandchildren. - Josh & Kalie

[@Fegga1955]

Too high for us in Greece

[@alessandrosilva4441]

The first challenge is to get a good rent for 700 euros. If you survive that, everything else gets "easier"...

[@paulm9333]

Hi Josh and Kalie, I like your videos as they are very informative. My wife and I are Portuguese and retired back home just over a year ago, after 42 years in the US. During the past year, we have experienced how much groceries have increased in price. In this video you mention that you spend 400 euros/month in groceries. I had a really tough time understanding how a family of three accomplishes such a small food budget. On average the two of us spend between 150-200 euros/week, and there are many days, when what we eat for supper is soup and fruit. As an example, a trip to the local fish market this Saturday cost us 67,40 euros for 1 seabream (Dourada), 2 salmon steaks, 1kg of fresh squid. This is 3 meals worth. A trip to the butcher shop every week is between 30-50 euros, and then you still have to add produce, fruit, veggies, etc. I'm not even adding water, beer and wine. So I would really love to understand how you manage to keep your grocery budget at 400 euros/month, as it would help us tremendously. Cheers and keep the videos coming

[@insAneTunA]

To be fair, you are conveniently forgetting a lot of expenses. Healthcare, liability insurance, phone and internet and TV. There are also long term expenses for which you have to set aside some money, such a replacement for a washing machine, or a broken TV, a new computer and/or phone every several years to keep it updated, repair and maintenance costs for the type of transportation that you have such as a scooter or a bicycle. Or the costs of public transportation if you have to travel a longer distance. Fuel costs and insurance for a scooter if you own a scooter (which is often cheaper and more convenient as public transport). Clothing, haircuts, and so on. A lot of people have no clue at all what it means to live from a minimum wage. And then there is also the stress from always having to worry about the bills, and all the loss of time when you can't afford a car or a scooter. And guess what, poor people have children too, and I have not even mentioned the additional costs of that. You can't play poor people for just a month. It is almost an insult to all the people who have to live from a minimum wage. Where I live there was a TV show with the same concept. But they also knew that it was just for a month, so for a start there is no stress, and just like you folks did the long term expenses were kept completely out of the picture. Plus you already had a big stash of products that you are using on a daily basis. I have experienced richness and very poor moments in my life. And I will never forget how hard it was to be very poor. I had moments in my life that I had to collect empty bottles in order to be able to get food for that day. And then every little setback becomes a huge problem. Even being able to make an important phone call can become a major issue if you can't afford to buy phone credit. And the world doesn't care. I realize very well what you are trying to do, but it doesn't even remotely come near to reality. And my heart goes out to all the people who have to survive for their existence. Because surviving is not the same thing as living. Luckily for me I am in a much better position as that I was when I had to struggle to survive on a daily basis. But it was hard, and I will never ever forget that. And it made me a different person. I learned how harsh and ignorant the people can be when you are poor. I apologize in advance if I appear a bit harsh on you guys. I don't mean it that way. I hope that you can understand that I am a bit sensitive for the subject. And for those who want to argue with me and tell me that it is your own fault if you become poor, I can say this, it can happen to anyone, even well situated people can end up in poorness with a bit of bad luck, and that is no exception. And not all people are able to follow or finish a proper education for a variety of reasons. So do not think that it can't happen to you. You can get sick, or you can be involved in an accident, or you can get a burnout, or your relation can fail, or your partner or parents can unexpectedly die. There are numerous factors that life can throw at you. And not every person is able to deal with that. Every person is different, and we do not all have relatives on which you can rely for help.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Healthcare - public healthcare ("free"), no private coverage No liability insurance - no car so no requirement Phone - was included Internet and TV - included in cost of rent We explained what the 13th and 14th payment periods could be for used for. We explained public transportation costs and included those. I got a haircut during the video. I'm going to stop reading and responding to your comment at this point because it doesn't seem like you watched the entire video or you omitted the fact that we covered this stuff. I (Josh) have lived pay check to pay check in the US at one point in my life. I've had checks bounce and had a pay the $10-15 fees when that happen occur when you overdraft. I've had anxiety opening mail at one point in my life because I didn't know if it was a bill so by not knowing, I could get on with my life. - Josh

[@insAneTunA]

@@ExpatsEverywhere Healthcare is most certainly not for free in Portugal. I don't know who told you that, but anyone can do quick search and figure out that you do have to pay for healthcare, one way or the other. So I stopped reading your reply....

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

@@insAneTunA So where is it a direct expense? It's funded by general taxation and social security contributions among those working in Portugal. If one goes and visits a public hospital with an SNS, they'll be seen, and likely, very likely have zero bill to pay at the end.

[@marianneeichler648]

Hi Josh and Kaylie, Marianne from the San Joaquin Valley in California. What a great experiment. To put your money where your mouth is! When you say "travel is transformative" you are serious. Emersive experience indeed. I worked out that money for a single person and it would require a rented bedroom to have any funds at all for food. I think the very best part is the engagements with other people on a limited budget. The games, and the children's events, as well as the social outings (and inings at home) were valuable to thrive anyway, budget or not. I was going to use the word endure, but this was about humans going beyond a drudge of endurance. Takes intelligence and some joy to work it out. Congratulations, good job.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Hi Marianne, it's nice to hear from you. Yes, we believe that living abroad transforms lives but so does travel. 🙂Thanks for the kind words. - Josh & Kalie

[@budadams412]

Super cool experiment. Shows how tough it is… great as a 30-day challenge to create awareness, but can’t imagine the reality of that as life. Great work putting this together. Cheers.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thanks, Bud! We appreciate that. It was an adjustment for sure. The edit was a beast. - Josh & Kalie

[@lisas44]

Having been with a credit union in the states forever, I was surprised, when trying to help my sister with her finances, that banks actually charge a fee for keeping YOUR money that they then loan out to others and collect interest on. More people need to find ways to avoid these fees and shop with your dollars!

[@johndecastro6639]

Thanks guys for going through that. One of my favourite videos.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thanks for watching, John. We're glad you enjoyed it. - Josh & Kalie

[@teddydavis2339]

You guys are amazing. That was very thoughtful. I see Americans bragging about how cheap things are. Well, things are not so cheap when salaries are so low. Americans are very spoiled, salaries wise. I was watching a documentary about England. A couple was trying to save on energy. Their salary combined was £3500.00 a month. That's what I make alone, without a degree. This was really thoughtful of you guys. I really feel sorry for the Portuguese people who are being priced out. Obrigado pelo video.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thank you, Teddy. We appreciate reading this. Have a great weekend. - Josh & Kalie

[@voice.of.reason]

£3500 a month after taxes in dollars or £? For an unskilled job??

[@flamer9783]

what job do you have that allows you to make that much?

[@shannonhogan7873]

My husband and I really enjoyed this video. We met you guys at a meet up in Lisbon 2 years ago. You were both super friendly and down to earth. I would love to see more videos like this! Keep up the great work.

[@2clarityin30]

It's reality that many live on this slim a budget. What you've done is also a lesson in empathy.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Yes, the last stat we saw was around 25% are on minimum wage although we don't know their living situation so it's hard to know how it could manifest itself. - Josh & Kalie

[@simonledoux8519]

Wow! That was interesting! It looked challenging and definitely stressful but I bet if you had to do it again, you would probably have a somewhat easier time. Having said that, you were still able to have a social life with that budget. We were rooting for you all the whole way through!

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thanks for rooting for us, Simon. We appreciate you watching. We spoke about it privately, we could do it again but fortunately we don't have to. - Josh & Kalie

[@Jvang102]

Who would have thought that watching someone’s spending budget could be so riveting 😀, Well done!

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

HAHA, this is such a funny comment. We had hoped to compose it in a riveting way to watch. After all, if it's not watchable, "nobody" will see it. Thanks for the message and making us smile. - Josh & Kalie

[@lucchese20]

Great and fun video-for me that is. 😉 This reminds me a lot when I lived with my aunt in Italy as a teenager. My folks in the US didn’t have a lot of money so I was very strict (self-imposed) about how I spent money. That experience was life changing in so many ways-including how to spend and save money. 💶💵 Congrats on making it thru on a minimum wage. 👍🏻

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thank you, Maurice. We appreciate it. Thanks for sharing more about you and your upbringing. - Josh & Kalie

[@joseestevao2037]

Not that it makes much of a difference, but in Portugal u get paid an extra 2 minimum wages a year or 1,640 euros. Plus most employers pay daily food subsidies as they don't pay ss or income taxes on it. A bit like health insurance in the US.

[@PeterMKooiman]

Subsídio de refeição tem impostos... é reduzido em cartão refeição.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Yes, it makes a difference in our opinion. We realized this as well at the end and we dropped a pinned comment on this video as to how people could approach these 2 extra pay periods. - Josh & Kalie

[@PeterMKooiman]

Not that it makes a big difference but most Portuguese have to drive or take public transport to go to their minimum 5 days/40h week job away from home. Most Portuguese aren't at home living off goldilocks investments or youtube revenue living the "expats" dream.

[@antoniodasilva1230]

It's around 170 extra euros on the food debit card

[@antoniodasilva1230]

It's around a extra 170 euros per month on the food debit card

[@luisalves3723]

Hi. What i do since we receive our bills (rent, water, electricity, gas, internet)the month before is set that money aside. The food we cook at home and only go out in special occasions. The groceries is carefully planned for a week and i buy mostly the supermarket brands (that are the same or better). The transportation, either you have a car or use a monthly pass, don't charge the card when you need, it will cost you more. You'll see that at the end of the month you'll haved saved money and start the next one with more budget. After a while you'll be rich. 😀 Hugs.

[@ralex.2907]

Just to complement on the transportation: andante (metro do Porto) has an app for android - anda - that will choose what is the cheapest option for that month (the monthly fee or individual trip). It only has an additional monthly value of 0.10€ for the virtual card but it is convenient.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thanks for sharing, Luis! Hugs back to ya. - Josh & Kalie

[@shinyshinythings]

Yeah I was kind of shocked that a savings strategy was to eat the meal out with their friends at Pingo Doce! It would have cost half as much to buy some groceries there and cook them at home.

[@ericsoderlund3236]

Another awesome video from Josh and Kalie! Thanks, guys. I especially like Josh's headphones at the 13-minute mark. And I even make a cameo appearance in this one, lol. Living for a month on minimum wage would be very challenging, and you illustrate it very well with this experiment. Maybe you should have done it in February so you wouldn't have been sweating the last day. ;-) Of course, it would be even harder to do it on a permanent basis or for a whole year. Think about all the non-regular, one-time, or "lumpy" expenses that come up in a year: holiday gifts, life insurance premiums, health insurance premiums, clothing, back-to-school spending, health-care expenses, new phones and computers when they become obsolete, and, of course, travel. So many sneaky expenses that crop up and can bust a budget when it's this limited and there is little room for error.

[@imeandmyself525]

You talk about non-regular or lumpy expenses that simply don't exist, in most cases, for people on minimum wage! Holiday gifts - In a large family, the "secret friend" is used, that is, each person only gives one gift to another person (drawn), so, if there is a family gathering with ten, fifteen people, each person only has to give one gift To the lucky one, you don't have to give ten/fifteen gifts, one to each one! Of course, in the case of parents and children, this is not the case. Life insurance premiums - unless you are paying a mortgage to the bank for the house life insurance is NOT an issue, even for higher earners. And this expense is included in the costs of paying the debt Health insurance premiums - in Portugal there is a public and universal healthcare system, everyone can use it. The costs are very small, around €5, I believe, for a consultation, there are many people exempt from this payment, such as those who earn a minimum wage. Clothes - yes, these costs exist Back-to-school spending - not as much as you might think, because the books are free. Of course you have to pay for notebooks, pencils, backpacks, etc. Health-care expenses - as I said, there are practically none if you use the public service, which is good, even better than some private ones. The problem is that it is overloaded and it can take a long time to get an appointment. If you need a hospital stay or operation, it's free! New phones and computers when they become obsolete - there's no need to change your iPhone every year when a new model comes out! And there are already many people who just have a phone, do everything with it, the expense of a computer is eliminated. And you can always hope for one of the extra salaries for these expenses. Travel - yes, it's not possible, although everyone goes away for a few days, to friends or family. It could be to the south, to the beach, or to the homeland, or the land of the parents, where part of the family still remains.

[@fmtntiger]

What an experience that you helped to recreate and remind the value of frugality. Thank you. Cia has grown so much and love for her. Take care.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thank you very much! She's growing ridiculously fast. Thanks for the love. - Josh & Kalie

[@JenShea]

Hi guys, I am realizing how good you both are at keeping socially active. It just hadn't occurred to before... so important for a healthy relationship. As for your personal money challenge, good for you. As someone who raised her daughter alone (and said daughter went to University, etc)... I've always lived a frugal life... but I get that if that's not what you are used to it can be much more challenging. I know that feeling of not being able to socialize because of lack of cashflow. What a great experiment for you to do.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thanks, Jen. Nice to hear from you. We're both very social people for sure! House parties are a must. - Josh & Kalie

[@JenShea]

@@ExpatsEverywhere they were for me when I was your age as well!! 🙌🏻

[@chamlo11]

One of the most intriguing aspects of this video is the level of thought-primarily about finances-that occurs when living on a minimum wage income. I have worked with individuals who have limited incomes in Canada, and even in a country with a relatively okay social support system, earning minimum wage can still be quite restrictive. For instance, are all your health costs covered in Portugal (e.g., pharmacare?). Yes, you had a health cost, but if you had to pay for medications each month...wow!

[@stefaniekumaran563]

Thanks so much for taking on this brave experiment. And most of all, for our honest opinions about it.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

You're welcome. Thanks for watching and taking it all in for how it was intended. - Josh & Kalie

[@RICARDOABECH]

This was a great video. You are very limited on minimum wage, so things like: Vacation, pets, home cleaning, fun (movie theater), gym/sports, clothes (eventually), beauty (hair cuts, etc) are not possible, so you are basically just surviving. If you get sick or need to fix something that broke, that is also a struggle.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thank you, Ricardo. Yep, vacations are out the window unless a couple other factors lower your expenses like a rent from 5 years ago or longer or you live with your parents or in a house that's been passed down. We workout at home using KZbin videos. Kalie gets her haircut twice a year. In the video I got my cut once, which is normal. We could have done a movie had we not gone to FC Porto. - Josh & Kalie

[@southernfriedkiwi7726]

This was a weird one for me. An interesting experiment, but the fact that you know it finishes in 30 days, absolutely clouded your approach. I'm not saying that to be mean, it was a given that it would. The biggest problem with this experiment, was that there was no intention to save money. None. As someone who was making minimum wage(with my wife) for 9 months, 30 years ago in London, there IS NO MONEY for eating out and drinking alcohol multiple times in the month. We had to eat at home every night. There was no money for watching live sports. There was no money for buying coffee "out". The reason that there was no money for these things is that we HAD TO save money for our future. If you had set aside a reasonable amount to put into an imaginary savings account, it would have been more realistic. You would have been forced to approach it more seriously. Honestly, you lived more in one month, than we did in 9 months, because of the lack of needing savings planning.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

We did address that at the end. We also addressed the money saving strategy we would use in a pinned comment. - Josh & Kalie

[@Staronqueen]

Also, if they had a 9 to 5 job they wouldn’t be out and about every day, spending money or telling their friends that they are living on a limited income.

[@emilywilson3752]

It was an interesting video because a lot of the conversation around where are good places for people in the US to retire or live cheaply use metrics like the minimum wage as the benchmark they refer to of just how cheap it can be! While people are correct in that it is different to live like this all the time and you would have a lot more expenses to really consider if this was a regular way of life rather than an experiment, i think it was perfect for the purpose of debunking the myth that you can move to Portugal and live on $800 per month if this glorious life of sitting on the beach and drinking wine every day. Which is the picture that is painted in sooo many of the relocate articles/posts.

[@on2thenextthing]

Great vid. Very interesting to see how it unfolded.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thanks for watching and commenting. - Josh & Kalie

[@jimmiewhite]

Thank you guys. This was great.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching, Jimmie. - Josh & Kalie

[@the_ikiru]

Great video. Very interesting experiment.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thank you! - Josh & Kalie

[@robertbravo8032]

Really enjoyed this challenge. My wife and I plan on moving to Portugal when we retire and I've struggled to come up with a number that we need to live in. This was very eye opening.

[@bernardopiano7153]

Hi Josh and Kalie, your financial adviser can explain better than me, but with that income you will receive from the state a pension for your child, don't know the exact amount but I think it's around 200 eur. For the rental you will get another pension, maybe 65% if not more... transportation I'm not sure but I have a feeling it could be free. On top of your income, certainly you get more 600 eur if not more in pensions. Sometimes people that earn minimum weige take home more money than the ones getting an average salary, they know all those benefits/pensions... not saying they live well, just saying they live with mora than you did. I'm sure there are much more "help" from the state and city hall, this is one of the reasons why Portuguese pay so much in taxes... it's called social state ;)

[@CGsYTChannel]

Loved this video. I really enjoy your annual monthly cost videos earlier in the year. So this is a great comparison to those if you are on a tighter, or fixed income. Based off of everything I've learned from your videos and from people living in the village I'm retiring to, my wife and I will be living very comfortably on our income. Excited for the future!

[@tenese8]

Loved this local/reality perspective and the comfortable-budget number. Great baseline to work from.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thanks for watching and subscribing. :-) - Josh & Kalie

[@marisapollock4703]

I cant help but wonder how this would have gone if your flat rent were closer to what market rate seems to be. I'm watching from the US, so could be way off but I think newly rented flats are much more expensive. Also, this is how my family lives our lives. Except without access to affordable transportation to get everywhere. And, we make far above our state's minimum wage. Kind of blows my mind that it was such an adjustment. Count your blessings, I guess.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

One would have to find a flat they can afford with their salary. So if we can only afford €700, we find something that's €700. A lot of people forget that we live in a T1+1. It's a small apartment. - Josh & Kalie

[@sagmahi]

Thank you for creating this content...it is super helpful for understanding how affordable Portugal can be. This video isn't too far from my daily living experience in the SF bay area 😅 And the Cia highlights are the best! 🤩

[@capt.miguelresendez5238]

It would be so interesting to watch you continue the challenge for a few months. We would start to see you visiting parks, free outings, cheap museums, etc. We would be able to see you get creative with cooking as well. Great video!

[@shinyshinythings]

Some money-saving tips from someone who for real has lived on a budget: if you go to your fresh market, the veggies and fruit are cheaper than delivery, bread from bakeries is cheaper and much nicer than from grocery stores, don’t buy pre made burgers, meat is MUCH cheaper by the kilo if you just buy it in bulk, avoid alcohol - it’s expensive! - and finally, don’t spend your last 33€ on going to see football (you would definitely not have gone to the game if this were your real life and not “for the experience”).

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thanks for the comment. Literally thousands of people on minimum wage will go to at least one match a season at €11 per person per match. Some are so crazy about football that they'll manage to have a season ticket. Remember for some football isn't an experience, "football is life". - Josh

[@jeanineh6006]

I'm impressed that you guys were able to do this. Not an easy thing to accomplish. Not all Americans who move here are "Golden Visa" people. We are not Golden Visa people and have a budget that we have to adhere to but it is a bit higher than PT minimum wage. The thought that it is "super cheap" to live here may be from a wealthier person coming from the US or wherever. Maybe someone having sold a home for a lot of money or gotten an inheritance would feel that way. Not everyone is in this situation. This is very enlightening to those who have a smaller income or maybe their income is based on social security from the US (or a "pension" from another country). As long as Social Security is in existence. No large expenses or catastrophic expenses were incurred, ie. a partner loses a job or maybe the car breaks down or you need new tires. Other considerations would be clothing, shoes, internet, tv, streaming platforms which all add to your monthly expenses. Travel was not an option either. Not looking to cause any issues with your challenge because this was great but these are considerations for those who are thinking of moving here. Congrats to you for meeting the challenge!!! Aren't you happy that you can go back to your normal budget?

[@Carolinapetroska]

Why in the world would you buy foreign bread when the Portuguese bread is one of the best in the world and very cheap too ?

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

The bread we bought was from Pingo Doce. How's it a foreign bread? You mean because it's sandwich bread and we like to make sandwiches for lunch? It's a cultural thing, Carolina. It's like something something that our American and Canadian audience can really relate to. PS - We're not advocating for this particular bread as it's not nice. A euro more and it'll buy a much better bread that's the same style. As you saw later in the video, we preparing the snack for watching football on TV with a friend, we bought bakery fresh bread for €0.19 per roll I believe it was. Downside to this bread is it needs to be consumed in 24-48 hours but we did in this case, so it's all good. - Josh & Kalie www.pingodoce.pt/produtos/marca-propria-pingo-doce/pingo-doce/pao-de-forma-12-cereais-e-sementes-pingo-doce-600-g/

[@jonkerr6793]

Kudos for being willing to do this and admit to the psychological pressures it created in daily life for a month as relatively young, healthy, well-educated people. Now imagine doing that for six months, a year, five years etc. and how that might change your entire outlook on life, especially when you start to factor in really serious health challenges. I've been lucky enough to rise from a family situation like that in my youth, but many (most?) in Portugal, the U.S. and probably the whole world are not. It affects you the rest of your life and cannot/ should not be forgotten. A side question related to your ability to hold utilities down to under 130 a month? That's still very low for Portugal urban areas. I didn't hear you mention city sanitation/utility costs, gas or internet/tv? I'm also wondering if you have private health insurance which is, arguably, optional in Portugal and so you may not have included its cost. But living solely on Portugal's public health system has its own set of psychological and physical challenges for many people.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thanks for watching, Jon. One thing that didn't get discussed in this video because it's too deep of a backstory is that Kalie and I grew up very economically different. We come from two didn't parts of the country. I've had some very financially broke moments of my life in my early 20s. That wasn't needed to be told in this piece but many people jump to the conclusion for whatever reason that we're 2 rich kids. It's just simply not true. I had flashbacks to when I had to choose food or a gallon of gas. - Josh

[@denisescally7090]

How patronising pretending to be poor for a month and the lack of awareness that it’s rich foreigners (Americans) who are pushing the prices up.

[@shinyshinythings]

I think they are pretty aware of that, it’s the whole reason they made this video. They’ve lived abroad for a long time. Where do you live?

[@denisescally7090]

@@shinyshinythings Come on, they made the video for content.

[@mariannea.2140]

Hi Josh & Kalie, thank you for spending the time and effort to show us approximately what a day to day spending would cost on an 820 euro budget (base on 2 1/2 :P ). I am American of Portuguese ancestry and have been planning a retirement there before it became "popular". I have been increasingly nervous as prices rise as I would be retiring as a single person and my budget would be in the ball park of both of yours combined. This gives me a 'general" idea of what it would cost me taking into consideration my circumstances as I know I would also need to budget in private healthcare, etc. and other factors that pertain to my life. This has been the best video in helping me to better understand how I would need to budget or even if it is still an option for me. Thank you for doing this it really has been helpful!

[@shinyshinythings]

Keep the Numbeo website bookmarked so you can track prices in different cities. Porto is one of the more expensive places to live in Portugal.

[@mariannea.2140]

⁠@@shinyshinythingsThanks for the tip! 😊 I was definitely not thinking Porto (for financial reasons) I am still in the research phase. Maybe a smaller town/ village a little inland not far from a larger city is what I am focusing on. Researching is half the fun though Numbeo will help, thanks again! 🌺🪸

[@paulcatarino2209]

@28:23 I think you found the secret sauce there. Even in the silver coast you can buy a house with some land for a veggie garden and chicken/duck pen and still have the mtg pymt be less than rent in Porto or Lisbon. I understand the global appeal of living in the city, but I think that a 20-30 min drive out is where you can find the perfect balance city life and country life.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thanks for sharing, Paul. - Josh & Kalie

[@papiyonmov]

Great experiment! I'm thinking there would be additional expenses for toiletries, dental care, clothing/shoes. Looks like no money available for pets, school, travel, repairs (if you own something like a house, car, computers, phones) or giving to charities. Thank you for doing this!

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Toiletries were in the grocery runs. Other things have been referenced in our pinned comment. Thanks for watching. - Josh & Kalie

[@victorialira]

That is correct. My house needs a lot of repairs and I can't afford that.

[@johnwang2910]

This is awesome! Thank you guys, Kaylie and Josh, a greeting from China. I need these information.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Great! You're welcome. Thank you, John. - Josh & Kalie

[@skkskskskskskskfjfbd]

Great video guys! As a Portuguese currently living in the USA, I commend you for this video. The amount of videos about how Portugal is great while living on an American income is ridiculous, we all know how amazing it, it's not rocket science. This is the first time I see an expat actually showing how things are using the local resources/conditions. Parabéns!

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thank you. We appreciate that. That was the point really. It certainly wasn't to mean any harm to those on minimum wage . Thanks for watching. - Josh & Kalie

[@leDeemaria10]

So many things I could suggest, like cooking vs eating out, until you're more financially stabilized. Buying super cheap, fresh produce and fruits on the side of the road. Buying cheapest or substituting cheapest brands at grocery stores. Not limiting yourselves to Pingo Doce, try Aldi, Continente and whatever other grocery stores they sometimes have in shopping centers. Save up for a decent size chest freezer to store meats and such, take grocery shopping trips outside of the city and stack up in that freezer; heck, move outside of the city and let your friends come to you until you're on steadier grounds. Probably not very helpful but just a few suggestions.

[@anniesshenanigans3815]

365 days a year for ppl in the USA, especially someone that is single!! I live alone and the thought of living on SS is scary.

[@jorgelourenco2085]

Great exercise guys.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thanks so much! - Josh & Kalie

[@TBMAKEAMERICAGREATAGAIN]

Wow 🤯 I want to thank you guys for doing this 30 day challenge ❤ It is a lot of sacrifice and exhausting mentally and emotionally to live on a tight budget. 😢

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thank you for watching. - Josh & Kalie

[@nichols1969]

Maybe this explains why so many live with their parents and maybe even grandparents. This happens on both side of the Atlantic. Rent would be the killer.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Rent is the X factor for many and we suspect many have really, really low rents or mortgages. - Josh & Kalie

[@victorialira]

Exactly! Most of the families live with their parents or grandparents because of this.

[@alvaropachecosilva]

Interesting test. Other things to weigh in: Cia would probably be entitled to a small government allowance and both of you should either deduct the expenses of one of the main meals on weekdays or add anything from 6,00 € to 9,00 € per weekday tax-free as mandatory food allowance.

[@ricardoxavier827]

Thank you for this. And you did a luxury lifestyle for our living standards. You could "cortar á boca" more. And with a kid even more precious "Eye Opening. Obrigado

[@MamaLlama007]

This is a really great video. So many people live on a tight budget: Social Security & minimum wages. Thank you for showing this experience.

[@chamomilesmith2218]

I grew up in a poor immigrant family where I could not see any sunshine in my domicile. Monthly budget outside of housing was probably under $400 for family of 3 in NYC in 2000s. I make that money in 2 hours now. My frugal nature kicks in often but definitely I don't worry about micro scale of the money and be miserable over just couple dollars any more. Money can definitely buy convenience and can help buying "some" happiness.

[@alexgray1905]

Very intersting, thanks.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thank you, Alex. Good to see you. - Josh & Kalie

[@Jman_22g]

Eye opening for sure!! My Portugese friends talk about how minimum wage is and paying rent... 🤯🤑 My game plan would be to eat in, buy beans and rice (live bellow your means) put some money for savings/emergency fund and you should be good... 👍🏻 In theory. I learned alot with David Ramsey. Paid off debt. I am a American living I Portugal 🇵🇹

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

We paid off all our debt in Saudi. Wayta have a plan. Good job. Thanks for watching. - Josh & Kalie

[@Hdio99]

Great Video, seen almost all, this probably favorite. Yes its possible, confortable begins I guess 50% higher than minimum wage witch is more or less the AVERAGE WAGE here in Portugal... But I would say that maybe people that is on minimum wage does not have so higuer ELECTRICAL BILL ( I am a 52 year guy living with my wife and dauther just like u guys and by bills are electric around 45€ each moth and water around 23€ I live in SINTRA area, so I guess something is costing in the electric bill of yours... another thing is I dont think people with minimum wage would go so much on social events, not without social behavior but maybe not going for gatherings where you spend. Another is sport events , I mean there it goes a lot, for example I dont go. For example I only have INTERNET 500GB and Phone in my house for 35€, with internet I see all the TV I want , and my phone has 20GB per month and 5000m of calls and sms. I dont pay any rent because I own my house, my wife makes the minimum wage, I make a little more but spend much less than the minimum wage so every moth I save a little.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thanks, mate! We're glad you've found an almost favorite. We hope to create a new favorite soon. :-) - Josh & Kalie

[@zoem891]

Great experiment. I guess if you don’t have to pay rent it would help. I’m still debating if we should move to Portugal. My husband is Portuguese but we live in USA for so long that we are little hesitant about moving there and not be able to adapt with low income.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thank you. Yep, rent took half. - Josh & Kalie

[@Kalecimus]

Great experiment, however it doens't even come close to what most people in Portugal are going through as it ignores the fact that you didnt have to go to work and therefore had plenty of time for your social life, without taking abuse from your bosses and not being paid for your extra duties etc, only to earn a salary you could barely make ends meet. If i had to live like that... I WOULD RATHER BE HOMELESS!

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

We're not retired. We work from home. - Josh & Kalie

[@sharletlobo2016]

Rent, utilities, groceries were deducted for the fixed expenses… how about your medical insurance costs? How much would that be for private health insurance.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

For this video, the assumption is that one wouldn't have private health insurance and be solely reliant on the public system, which is "free". We have a regular cost of living video on our channel you can check out for those costs. - Josh & Kalie

[@dcterra]

Someone making $15/hour in the US couldn't make it through half the month here unless they are sharing an apartment. I don't even mean like a "roommates" situation, I mean like more people living in the house or apartment than there are rooms. It says a lot for Portugal.

[@Sergey_Mironenko]

try to do the same experiment with 729,80 euro in USA

[@angel794]

Haha, as if that could work!

[@jjbetofonseca]

I think you really did a great job. This is indeed an interesting video where you actually put the shoes of people and feel it how it actually looks like to lice in such conditions. I think thats also important to point that those people dont have a way to get kids to some school or, that at least they have to pay something on any school, right? And also that people living on min wage most provably also needs to pay for that transport in a daily basis (not the case for you guys). Again, congrats for the great video, i really like it!

[@PeterMKooiman]

In conclusion you can't have kids, gas, internet or a social life on minimum wage. Your car breaks down or an appliance goes out you don't eat to get it repaired.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

All of Cia's costs were accounted expect here school fees. In theory, she could be going to a public option. - Josh & Kalie

[@DjBrunoFiasco]

Really cool experiment.

[@capt.miguelresendez5238]

If you had car expenses, it doesn’t seem possible to afford a vehicle and insurance, gas, maintenance, etc.

[@paulosousa8821]

Para isso tinham que também subtrair o valor da renda de uma casa

[@seamusp5991]

Great challenge! :)

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thank you 🤗 - Josh & Kalie

[@capt.miguelresendez5238]

Could you use the Wise card? We use it and we have very minimal fees.

[@Alfablue227]

Great vídeo guys. Cannot believe how much Valencia has grown!!😮Gorgeous little girl. You could hv saved a lot more if you hit the local weekly food markets, but it is so hard. Now imagine the households that only have puny pensions, or just 1 single earning person. 😮

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thank you. She's growing like a weed. - Josh & Kalie

[@Alfablue227]

@@ExpatsEverywhere She is bless her heart. Porto's scene is good for her and not just.

[@stevefromthegarden1135]

Thanks for doing with experiment. I'm sure this was quite challenging. ( Just keeping track of everything can be hard. ) Baking your own bread, buns have been cheaper and taste better. (making different types of bread is not hard) 1 aspect of a family who is truely living on minimum wage, they would not have been going to watch the games in person. Money not spent there would have been better off in a high yield savings acct in order build an emergency fund. In you're case, this was an experiment so spending down to the last euro was ok. Your experiment shows me that we could live quite well in Porto on the smaller of our 2 incomes or that my brother could live quite well on his retirement income.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

You're welcome. Thanks for watching. I imagine that some minimum wage diehard fans have season tickets because there are entry level tickets that are really low. Like €150 for the season including the EL matches plus €12/month socio fee. That would be €7.50/match plus the socio fee. If one loves football that much, which many Portuense do, they'll find a way. :-) - Josh & Kalie

[@danidonadan]

This experience is so important.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

We've learned how to reduce our budget considerably. - Josh & Kalie

[@SilverTurtle65]

Hello from Costa Rica 🇨🇷 I was in Portugal in March and spent most of February in the Azores. Most people that are native in Portugal either have their homes mortgage free and don’t pay rent so that makes a huge difference on monthly expenses in my opinion.

[@afaria6173]

a lot of people in the Azores have mortgages and they are all variable rates loans. People who have been paying 500 euros monthly for years are now paying 800 because of the spike in interest rates.

[@rdmf2921]

What are you talking about? Ahahahah

[@PeterMKooiman]

LOL, that is incorrect and not factual! Who sold you that bs story?

[@dagerman7032]

@@PeterMKooiman"In 2020, 46.6% of households living in Portugal had some kind of debt. Among all households, the most common type of debt is mortgages on the main residence (30.5% of households). (Data from the Bank of Portugal) And the percentage of Portuguese who own their home is 78 %. So afaria is right.

[@PeterMKooiman]

@@dagerman7032 Sorry wrong! I know of no one, NO ONE!!!! mortgage free, unless they are living with their parents. The data you pointed out is a joke, if you have a look at the details they consider people living with their parents as if they have their own household. Not even 1/3 of the people I went to school with have their own home. Sorry actual facts beat poor data.

[@fernandomagalhaes6820]

Don t forget that it is 820 euros x 14 month / 12 month = 957 euros. So where do you live with a minimum wage?

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

We addressed this in the pinned comment. Thanks for watching. - Josh & Kalie

[@matchbox3eb]

Hey guys, great channel. I wish I'd found you sooner. I'm an expat living abroad since 2020. Very curious how you have found the process of obtaining work, permits, and residence in different countries. Any recommendations? I'm in Poland now, and lived in Italy for a few years. Looking at moving to Norway or Spain next. Depends on job offers. All the best to you and your little one. Cheers!

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Welcome aboard! The majority of the time we've had work contracts in the various countries we've lived. We used to be teachers. - Josh & Kalie

[@veronicadcf]

Shout out to Cia, who makes this type of video prettier! I love the part of entertaining at home.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thank you :-) We love having people over even though our place is tiny. - Josh & Kalie

[@oussama_bedoui]

Hi guys! I'm moving to Portugal in three months and this video and chanel in general is really helpful to know what's waiting for me and summarize it . Thank you !

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Thank you very much for the message. All the best! We're glad to help. - Josh & Kalie

[@pedrolopes3542]

To be fair tho, this experience is not realistic, because people who earn minimum wage never go to parties like that, or concerts or events. And most people who are on minimum wage also have extra odd jobs to earn some extra money or they work extra hours sometimes to compensate. And rent... That rent is completely unrealistic for someone earning minimum wage.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

You're right, Pedro. Our rent is likely more than most on minimum wage are paying. 😬 - Josh & Kalie

[@RushmoorFizzbomb]

TAX! Tax is deducted from your minimum wage, but by chance the extra 2 pay periods per year make up for it. You must pay nearly 12% tax if the minimum wage is 14x820=11480 less tax is 10100, so divide by 12 months is €842. That’s fine if you are working and getting 14 payments per year, but not so if you are on a D7 where 12x820 is the minimum passive income requirement. Can somebody comment?

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

As explained in the beginning, we had a tax person answer this question about how much we'd need to set aside for taxes. - Josh & Kalie

[@dovoso5685]

Very nice but bottom line = If you are single retiree and your social security equals to 800 euro , you can not make it.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Definitely not as a foreigner just moving to Portugal and trying to live in a city. - Josh & Kalie

[@qwqwlex]

If you subtract rent of 700 euros and utilities from the minimum salary, how can you have 629 euros left? Maybe I missed something. With minimum wage as a single person, you rent a room for 300 euros which includes all bills. Also, Portugueses, and myself I have to say, spend their money a bit differently and are more frugal. They go for coffee rather than bears, and not necessarily with friends. I live with no more than 150 euros a month in groceries, and I almost always take public transport which works pretty well and it is cheap. If needed, I ride a Bolt or Uber. I probably live on 250-300 euros per month for the basics. Everything else is a plus that I can avoid but I don't because I can afford it.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

We're two people. €820 X 2. We explained this in the beginning. - Josh & Kalie

[@congruent-thoughts8781]

Interessting. Another Amercan on KZbin who helps Expat’s are talking about a rent around 3-4000€ pr month. This is much more then a luxory home in Norway, Sweden or Denmark - much more expencive countries, with much higher standart and insolation and much higher income. But you keep the prizes in this video also affortable for People on Pension. Minimum pension in Norway is about 1850€ pr person. So it should be possible without kids to have a good life, without depenting on friends buying a beer. 😅 Thank you!

[@congruent-thoughts8781]

What will definitly be a challange, is I get the pension from the many different countries I did work since the 1970s and the tax like in Danmark about 38% and in Norway 25% is already removed. I would pay double tax and this will be most of my pension. Do you know something about the ‘Withholding tax’ in Europe in most country’s? 🙏🌹

[@mariacorreia8362]

Save $$$, don’t refill ur card , in Lisbon u can get a card and pay monthly for $40 euros and u can ride anything around . That’s one way to save $$

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Hi Maria, thanks for the comment. This isn't completely accurate for Porto. The all zones pass is €40. Kalie had 3 top ups which this given month should could have done a monthly pass and it would have saved her money for the 3Z monthly card which is €30, however, Josh only did two top ups, which was €28 and cheaper than either monthly pass for adults. Typically, we just do two top ups per month but this 30 days was an anomaly for Kalie. - Josh & Kalie

[@ritamattos4237]

Olá pessoal,não esqueçam que todo trabalhador tem direito a 22 dias de subsidio alimentação,e também são 14 ordenados por ano😉. Mas sim é muito difícil estar sempre a fazer cálculos mentais. Abraços da Alemanha😉💪💪

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Hi Rita, thanks for the message. We weren't going to try to explain the 22 days of food subsidies. We actually asked several business owners to explain it and it got explained differently each time. Some said it was an entitled benefit, others said it was optional as a way to provide a tax free benefit, others said it's not a tax free benefit. We addressed the way to view the 14 payments in a pinned comment. Hugs! - Josh & Kalie

[@ritamattos4237]

@@ExpatsEverywhere bom dia, sempre que trabalhei recebi subsidio alimentação só não pago aquando das férias, e sim é livre de taxa,em algumas empresas,há cantina logo não necessita subsidio.😉abraços

[@SoundscapeCopyrightFreeMusic]

So, now you can SEE how many of the Portuguese people feel with foreigners moving to their country driving up cost 😢.

[@kristinaexpat3843]

Foreigners could not buy anything over here if the Portuguese weren’t selling it. No one is holding a gun to their head saying “you must sell your property to the horrible foreigners at a price your fellow Portuguese can’t afford but foreigners can!”

[@Maria-js9ou]

@@kristinaexpat3843 It's true that no one has a gun pointed to their head and forced to sell to foreigners, but before foreigners with more wealth came, things were sold at a lower price. Yes, as Gordon Gekko would say "greed is good"

[@kristinaexpat3843]

@@Maria-js9ou Then the Portuguese should refuse to sell to foreigners and lower their price to suit their fellow Portuguese finances. Foreigners cannot purchase what is not for sale to them. If the Portuguese want the foreigners out, then they should have the integrity to refuse to sell to them and lower their price so their fellow Portuguese can afford it.

[@Maria-js9ou]

@@kristinaexpat3843 Yes, as Gordon Gekko would say "greed is good"

[@AliG00779]

@@kristinaexpat3843 Your argument is fucking ridiculous...you think it's the Portuguese people who sell or rent those houses for a higher price? Obviously not, local people can no longer even buy an apartment...they are all companies that are dedicated to housing speculation, which causes prices to rise because of people like you...Not to mention that culture matters little to them, and learning the language and local traditions 0...Do you think that just because you are from the US with a salary from there, you deserve more privileges than us in our own country? We are starting to get tired of Yankees and their egocentrism...This is not a theme park! #ExpatsGoHome #YouAreNotWelcome

[@horatiu70]

The “comfortable budget” you mentioned of 2000 is that per person or as a couple?

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Per couple, but it's very dependent on where you're renting. IF you're just broadly talking about living in Portugal, €2,000 should actually be okay. - Josh & Kalie

[@nanaontherun1968]

Now can you imagine doing that as a single parent with only one min. wage income.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

No. Can you? - Josh & Kalie

[@bluedouchemark4685]

No, I couldn't do it, because I'm not a 16 year old with my first job, living with my parents

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Fair enough. - Josh & Kalie

[@sicko_the_ew]

If you'd been on the actual minimum wage, you'd have been working 12 hour shifts on a lot of days, probably a minimum of ten hours, and occasionally 16 hours. And what's this "overtime" thing you're talking about? Let's say you guys both got jobs packing boxes at a factory, so there's a conveyor belt to keep you hard at it all day, solidly. Then you knock off and go wait for the bus home (no metro out in the industrial area). Odds are if you want some beer, you'll just grab a six pack of the cheapest, or a single larger bottle. You drink it at home. Your daughter? I think you'd drop her off at Granny's? As soon as she was old enough, she'd just find her own way round. Safe country, so nothing to panic about in that. In a traffic safe country you might buy here a bicycle, then, but kids can walk miles (literally) without suffering harm. Not little ones like her, but the bigger kids. There's a fair chance that you'd work some Saturdays, too. It's possible to get used to just about everything, though. The Portuguese minimum wage is the point at which unimaginable wealth kicks in, in Malawi. (No factory to pay a minimum wage, there. Go till the land or catch enough fish to have some left over to sell. If times get hard, you borrow again from your brother. If you make a bit of extra money, your relatives come and borrow it all from you.)

[@916medic]

Would $5200 USD a month be ok to live and pay rent. Thats my pension but in California thats not much at all. Could i live ok with that much.

[@letsdoit_k]

Maybe I missed it but where in Portugal are you?

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Porto. - Josh & Kalie

[@AshleyOliviaDaCosta]

I find that this is so much easier in Portugal vs twice the money in the US. Getting sick took half our income and was a constant worry. No more!🎉

[@veronicadcf]

Amen!

[@sarasimoes9845]

Lucky your girl didn’t need any clothes/shoes or you have birthday presents to buy. Minimum wage is always very tight in every country. With children basically impossible. 😊

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Hi Sara, we've pinned a comment on our thoughts on that. - Josh & Kalie

[@wendiezzes2281]

which suburb do you live in?