Expert on internet shaming ended up getting shamed himself | Jon Ronson interview

Jon Ronson is a journalist and author. His books include The Psychopath Test and So You've Been Publicly Shamed.
Ronson has also produced the acclaimed podcasts The Butterfly Effect and The Last Days of August. His latest, Things Fell Apart, focuses on culture wars and is available on BBC Sounds in the UK and Apple Podcasts in the US.
Host: Oli Dugmore
Camera: Ed Campbell
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[@chezceleste]

Always like a lovely warm brain massage listening to Jon.

[@markmccallum8142]

He’s such a top man! Always fascinating. Great interview and podcast (Jon’s latest) 👌

[@ninagray4441]

The idea that intent doesn't matter, is stemmed in generations growing up being told the question why is not appropriate. This also goes against empathy, as, as long as we are asking why, we are not judging, just trying to understand further, the essence of curiosity.

[@mindsigh4]

well spoke 🙏💜🕯️

[@julianshepherd2038]

Violence and anger have risen and John doesn't answer why. He blames the symptoms of violence etc, he blames social media but he roots these battles in the 1970s. People are angry and frustrated and insecure. It's the economy stupid. Life is more precarious, jobs come and go, demand you are available any day and time, technology keeps changing your workplace or threatening to, housing security in the private rented sector is terrible, pensions related to inflation are old fashioned and even when the economy grows only the top 20% see the benefit.

[@jmmypaddy]

His point is that the left are also players of the culture wars by explaining how the tactics used are the same as the right from the 1970s. So when he talks about social media it shows this dynamic. Especially when the technology actively trying get people angry with news feed and tailored news. I agree on the economic point that our system breads division, thus being a space for bad faith actors to stoke up anamosities. Capitalism is system that hurts people and will always be the case.

[@michaelrch]

And the capitalists who run the show have a vested interest in ensuring that working people blame each other for the ills of society, rather than looking at the people who have the power to shape it. We have to rediscover how to have solidarity with potential class-allies even with people we disagree with them. Solidarity can bring more trust and dialogue between groups who have been forced apart by a toxic media and political system.

[@eddywax754]

Very interesting interview, thanks a lot

[@fredatlas4396]

As I understand it, Buddhism says if you act out of bad intentions this causes bad karma and good intentions cause good karma. So if that's true intention is very important

[@oneoflokis]

The law understands the concept too. 🙂

[@leewhitemanad]

Thank you Jon X , clarity and sensibility are rare normals at the moment. Tidy

[@Adamb87]

In the 1960s MLK discussed how our technology made the world a neighbourhood but we have failed to make it brotherhood .

[@RC-zm7hz]

Every year I re-read Ronson’s Guardian article Hunt for Santa Killer Intensifies. At Christmas. It makes me laugh like a drain every time and I would like to spread the joy.

[@mindsigh4]

have u heard The Santa Land Diaries, David Sedaris (can hear him read from the book) is good for holidays

[@LordJasonKing]

time dosen't repeat itself but it rhymes! nice quote, Well done John good old cardiff boy!

[@mindsigh4]

i like the one where sign reads: "God is Dead'' ~ Nietzsche ~ & underneath that sign: "Nietzsche is Dead " ~ God~

[@glenndouglas8822]

​@@mindsigh4👍✌️

[@marionreynolds7080]

Well done Jon.

[@fungi5923]

Distance and Distinction You see, humanity has been separated for so long and brought together on social media too fast, with traditional clashes to economic ideals to the elephant in the room religion (or at least the types peddling it) and the inevitable reactions and responses to it. With the escalation of the last 20 years this is the cause and effect of it

[@HelenaBKay]

Interesting take on it

[@oneoflokis]

But the religious right started it WELL PRIOR to social media.

[@mindsigh4]

social media just daylights what was crouching in the dark

[@brngsh5549]

Jon hides himself in generalities to avoid taking responsibility.

[@regisfilia]

Your comment is pretty damn general itself. What do you imagine he should be taking responsibility for?

[@freebornjohn2687]

He's participating in the conversation in a level headed way and helping it move forward. Could you expand on what you meant and also tell us how you are helping the debate.

[@chezceleste]

Mmmm...time limitations perhaps prevent him from solving all the world's problems in precise detail in this podcast.

[@jimdavis8391]

Yes, there are lots of things he will not discuss! That said, I like the guy and he does help bring people together and lower the anger level!

[@jimdavis8391]

​@regisfilia I've watched a few interviews with Jon, I found him rather anodyne and wondered why. I actually enjoy that he is mild mannered and avoids judgement, it makes a welcome change. I can't deny that he always refuses to take sides, it's both his strength and weakness. Louis Theroux is similar.

[@plebjames]

What goes on in campuses shouldn't be extrapolated to wider society (I work on a campus)

[@fionagregory9376]

The best ones have the most books in their bookcase don't they?

[@dcpayne5264]

And not just any bookcase, but Vitsoe 606 shelving!

[@sprobablycancr4457]

@@dcpayne5264 Shelving nerd or Vitsoe shill?

[@dcpayne5264]

@@sprobablycancr4457 shelving nerd 🙁 I need to get out more

[@leewhitemanad]

@@dcpayne5264 hehe

[@DonBelial]

28:27 What Jon is saying here is not right. Statistics show very clearly that female self reported happiness has declines over the decades. At the same time females always reported to be happier then men. That only changed in the mid 90s. Now they're even more unhappy than men. Not trying to make a point, just pointing out

[@leewhitemanad]

I don't think Jon was making any definite sweeps to that degree. I see your point though, it's a big complicated thing so many POVs to Setout.

[@blotski]

How interesting. The thing that springs to mind, of course, is the shocking fact that suicide is the leading cause of death among males under 45 in the UK. Are men overall happier but more prone to suicide anyway? Are they claiming to be happier than they really are? Or don't we really know because these surveys aren't particularly reliable? I don't know.

[@katytaylor681]

I just read The Psychopath Test, and just love Jon Ronson!

[@gravesplendour3481]

I do think that some of the most sensible people I know are under 21, so I hope Jon is right!

[@leewhitemanad]

I feel the same about a positive new status. The social media phenomena seems to me to be starting to settle down ,hopefully to allow definitions between online virtual world communication and the physical reality to become less blurred.

[@RonPaulOrDie]

Elon Musk just talked about this on the Babylon Bee podcast

[@sqrfoot6548]

Be my friend Jon.

[@julianshepherd2038]

I call it corporate media, bought and sold for advertising gold

[@HelenaBKay]

I want that happy drug that the expert is on.

[@jonescrusher1]

It's called perspective.

[@unrulycats2006]

The Andrea Dworkin quote was made up so his aggressive response was very strange.

[@fingerscrossed2453]

This is a satire joke?

[@fionagregory9376]

Trans? I don't know anyone who is that yet.

[@fionagregory9376]

Atheism is logical and I hope it grows throughout the whole world.

[@collieman]

Yeah religion is fairly easy to get out of when we're talking about the west (generally Christianity and Judaism) but Atheism has a very slim chance of progressing through the middle and far east partly because some countries have the death penalty for that and even the ones that don't have it make it very difficult due to family pressure or lack of access to facts and information not approved by religion.

[@benhall2235]

Presumably you think that it’s the only truly rational world view? Do you think it should be compulsory?

[@johnmccarthy1569]

@@benhall2235 You certainly are presuming. You also ignored the word 'I hope' in the original comment. Why was that?

[@benhall2235]

@@johnmccarthy1569 no I’m genuinely interested. If you would describe yourself as an atheist presumably you must see it as the most rational world view? I though that that’s what atheism is built on? Rationality? Separate question: if you hope it spreads would you be in favour of the abolition/outlawing of organised religion ?

[@johnmccarthy1569]

@@benhall2235 you started with 'only' and now it's 'most' rational world view. That implies a competition. Atheism only deals with the world as it is. That which has been established as existing in reality based on the evidence available. It is a position that you must reach yourself. Choice of religious belief or absence of belief should be up to the individual as long as adhering to those beliefs does not harm others or break the law.

[@oneoflokis]

Not ALL British 1970s OR 80s TV was rubbish! 🙂 I suppose there were too many white racist comedians though. 😏

[@radicalturkey]

He lost me at "The left are moral people." Lol!

[@benhall2235]

Of course the left are moral people. As are many on the right.

[@jimdavis8391]

They are ideologues, their interest is in ideas, not realities. Many of those ideas can be seductive, even beautiful, however their actualisation may be steeped in horror.

[@brismith2728]

Ron I liked you but this video shows you dont know your arse from your elbow

[@onepartyroule]

Would love to see Jon have a conversation with Graham Linehan about gender ideology and activism.

[@janoburns]

Graham is someone who is destroying his life with the culture wars. His wife has left him and his friends have publicly deserted him. Its quite a case study.

[@onepartyroule]

@@janoburns Well, his life is being destroyed because of the way some people are responding to him, that seems to be true. It’s certainly had a huge effect on his life, but as far as I can tell he doesn’t appear to have any regrets. I seem to remember him saying he is/was friends with Jon, and has spoken about their disagreements. It would make for an extremely interesting exchange given Jon’s latest project.

[@smith6752]

lol

[@daraorourke5798]

Yes it would be interesting. Can't see it happening though. Jon can't leave too many hostages to fortune.

[@jimdavis8391]

​@@daraorourke5798 Can you explain that? , I'm interested.