Exploring the Argument for Reducetarianism (Instead of Going Vegan)

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TODAY'S VIDEO:
I often receive comments or hear in debates that promoting that people simply eat 'less meat' would be a better, and more effective use of time and resources. So, is there any validity to this argument and would it be advisable to change tactics? Today, we're looking at the issue from the animal's perspective. #Reducetarianism #Veganism #Animals
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Transcript: surgeactivism....

[@ed.winters]

I often receive comments or hear in debates that promoting that people simply eat 'less meat' would be a better, and more effective use of time and resources. So, is there any validity to this argument and would it be advisable to change tactics? Today, we're looking at the issue from the animal's perspective. Let me know your thoughts on this below. 📚 Order my best-selling book This is Vegan Propaganda (& Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) here: earthlinged.org/orderbook 🌱 If you find my work valuable, you can become a regular supporter or make a one-off contribution through the following links (thank you!): earthlinged.org/support & patreon.com/earthlinged 🎤 Organise a speech or presentation at your company/education establishment: earthlinged.org/contact

[@VeganV5912]

.. HitIer and StaIin and PoI Pot and Putin, were KiiiiIIing innocent souls. BIuuudgeoned to death... 👈 Hint hint 🤥🦠🍖🔴.... 🙄. Over a frigging 5 minute burger et cetera !!! CuIt🔴foIIowing !!!!! What a world we live in !!!!! Sick !!!! 🔴

[@VeganV5912]

“I am the one that’s responsible, what’s happened” Jeffrey Dahmer . kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y56ciZ2giMili7s !!!!

[@v.a.n.e.]

something along those lines would, in theory, produce significantly more results. If 99% of humanity ate less meat, the implications would be unimaginably worse than the current 1%.

[@VeganV5912]

CuIt😩🦠🍖🔴foIIowing

[@Fanon1916]

Do you think a socialist planned economy would help end the suffering of animals? Also do you think that former animal agriculture workers (not the people who profit of the suffering if animals but the people who work for them for poverty wages i.e slaughter house workers) should be guaranteed employment in a post meat society?

[@watcher190]

I don't think reducetarianism should be looked at as a whole lifelong thing like veganism, I think it's good to get people to eventually go vegan. It's easier to switch gradually.

[@cheekiestclan5668]

Did you not watch the video though? One of the points was that advocacy for veganism leaves that option on the table, but doesn't make it a 'comfortable' position. We should advocate for the end-goal we want... reducitarianism should be a temporary status surely?

[@watcher190]

@@cheekiestclan5668 this video just seemed entirely against it.

[@thomaswolfe7465]

@@watcher190 That is not what he is saying. He never says that reducitarianism is bad (of course reducing your intake of animal products is good), he says that we should advocate for veganism instead because that is ultimately the goal we are trying to achieve. Someone can eat a reducitarian diet so long as they continue to gradually decrease their animal product intake.

[@misty_oar]

Reducing with the goal to stop, sure. Absolutely! Simple viewing "reducing" as enough, will never be good enough.

[@JoaoIsntJohn]

I owe my veganism to reducitarianism and am having success in persuading lots of people around me through that route too. The appeal of reducitarianism is that it sells itself as an end goal but its not necessarily that. When you start reducing you slowly start deconstructing the reasons why you eat meat and start realising it wouldn't be that difficult to stop consuming animal products all together. I understand the points Ed is making but I think it's missing the human psychology aspect that we don't eat meat because we are rational, we do it because it's expected and so we rationalise it. Reducitarianism has fundamentally changed the plant food market by sort of bypassing some of those biases and appealing to a much wider audience, because it paints itself as so easy. I think both approaches are valid and necessary the animals don't care what the best way of saving them is either. They care about being safe, about ending the industry through every means necessary.

[@Jacxel]

When I first started reducing my meat intake I never even seriously considered veganism. Once I had started it made me realise I could do it without difficulty and that led to me being open to watching more vegan promotional content and eventually led me to veganism (just over a year now) I'm not saying your wrong, I think not being critical of reducetarianism might prevent some people going fully vegan but I also think being overly critical of it might discourage some others taking a first step.

[@LocalForestWitch111]

Also, when your behaviour is more aligned with vegan lifestyle, it's easier to admit to ourselves that our actions were unethical, because we already started adjusting to morally superior lifestyle.

[@BulbasaurLeaves]

I completely agree. When I first tried to give up red meat and poultry in college (not even fully vegetarian let alone vegan) I made myself sick from swapping out my main protein sources with bread and ramen noodles. I gave up and went back to meat. When I tried again, I took a less strict approach. I told myself I could have meat only if I had a craving nothing else could satisfy. As I learned more about nutrition and found more protein rich vegetarian food, I had fewer and fewer cravings. One day, I realized that the thought of never eating steak, sausage or chicken again didn’t seem like such a big deal anymore. Fast forward a few years and I’ve eliminated almost all dairy and egg using the same approach. I’m still not vegan (yet) because I occasionally eat processed food with small amounts of dairy or egg as a binder. You can lump me into the same category as people who eat meat three times a day but that isn’t going help animals. Offering manageable steps for reducing animal consumption does.

[@robflel]

Yeah 100% this. Some people will never make the leap to fully vegan and for those people the reduction in meat consumption is better than just continuing at their normal animal product consumption, but there will be many, such as myself, who will jump the full way after seeing it’s really not that hard to not eat meat and gaining an understanding of the moral importance of stopping eating animal products. I do understand Ed’s point of veganism being the end goal and that should always be front of mind but this is easier from a position where society in whole already starts to consider eating less meat the norm rather than having their head completely in the sand. Meat consumption in the UK has dropped 17% in the last ten years, however it’s not likely that 17% of the population has turned veggie/vegan and everyone else is consuming the same - reducing omnivore meat consumption has saved lives, just the end goal of veganism needs to continue to be pushed.

[@cherrybearylemondrop]

Statistically, a slow progression into veganism is much more effective at keeping a vegan lifestyle long-term. Most people who switch overnight eventually switch back to eating meat. I think it's a personality thing. I agree that veganism is the end goal, but reducetarianism is a lot more appealing to people who have thought very little about changing their animal consumption. I don't think reducetarianism is about continuing to eat meat, it's about becoming vegan slowly.

[@cestraszimmer2115]

@@BulbasaurLeaves I did it in exactly the same way. Vegan for ten years now, I doubt that would have happened without reducetarianism.

[@CoryDavisPAg]

I think reducetarianism is great. It is a good strategy. Reducetariamism in theory would decrease demand for meat, increase demand for meat alternatives, thus making alternatives more accessible. Reduction is easier to achieve, and reduces the barrier to going vegan. Please read "How to Create a Vegan World: A Pragmatic Approach" by Tobias Leenaert.

[@Vanessa-fs7oz]

The thing with reducitarianism, when we disregard the ethical considerations, is that even if people wanted to "reduce" animal consumption for health or environmental reasons, there is no clear standard of how much to reduce, and so people will almost delude themselves into thinking they are reducing meat consumption simply because they are aware they should and maybe they ate something accidentally vegan the other day. A person will have a lentil wrap and then eat the rest of their normal animal-filled meals and then tell someone they are "reducing" consumption because that vegan lentil wrap stands out in their memory against all the other status-quo non-vegan meals that they eat. I 100% believe reducitarianism is a mental trick people play on themselves and a way for them to get our of harder conversations about morality and responsibility.

[@cheekiestclan5668]

Totally agree, reducitarianism should be a very uncomfortable position to be in otherwise people will utilise it for immoral reasons.

[@tyke269]

Absolutely.

[@biancat.1873]

💯

[@eternalblue4660]

Great point.

[@dragonskylords9032]

Yep! That reducitarianism mindset is certainly a very convenient "enabler" to do absolutely nothing while pretending you're changing something.

[@SpiritPhoenixRose]

Very well said 👏🏼 Prof Gary Francione says it too: "People are more likely to embrace veganism if they agree that there’s something serious and important at stake. And as long as [they] choose to eat any amount of meat, dairy, and eggs, they will never see veganism as a matter of fundamental justice". We have to hold veganism up as the end goal, period.

[@v.a.n.e.]

some people will go to any lengths to spread their cult. keep an eye on such folks.

[@dragonskylords9032]

@aSpiritedRoseCreations I always appreciated Gary Francione's abolitionist mindset.

[@tal3nt707]

Nothing Gary Francione says is based on evidence though, it’s pure ideological demands. The outcome that reduces animal deaths the most and quickest is the one we should strive for. And the thing is that reducetarianism doesn’t have to be called the end goal. You can call for it now and when people have reduced switch to advertising for veganism. All that being said, I think it’s important that there’s different approaches because there’s gonna be people who will respond to different ones.

[@michaelrch]

@@tal3nt707 Exactly. People do things and justify what they do for lots of conflicting reasons. I am vegan but I when I started thinking about diet it was for environmental reasons and I would not have considered being vegan then. Once I had already gone most of the way to being vegan anyway over a period of a year or two, it was easy both practically and mentally to just go from "a few" to "no" animal products in my diet. If people start down the path, even with a limited goal, they will always find the next incremental step quite easy and unchallenging. That can be a more effective approach for many people.

[@keeshea6718]

@@v.a.n.e. some people think non-violence is a cult.....

[@NoInjusticeLastsForever]

Would we commend a serial killer for only killing 5 people this year instead of their normal 10 victims? To the victims, reducing is not enough. ✊🏻

[@edyann]

Good point. English is my second language so I wasn't sure I understood this video. With your comment though- GOT IT.

[@dillonbija9592]

No, however that outcome would be preferable.

[@yvonanikou3904]

@@dillonbija9592 it's still not enough.

[@angycucumber4319]

sounds a bit strange because of the fact that they're killing animals of their own species and they're not doing it for food but I guess the point still stands

[@dillonbija9592]

@@yvonanikou3904 My statement still stands.

[@EC-jd9ej]

For people who genuinely, sincerely can't go vegan today--I like the concept of "reducitarianism with the goal of veganism". As opposed to just reducitarianism, this makes the transition to becoming vegan more clear as the end goal.

[@jenniferk1941]

For MOST who cannot make the change overnight, I think this is a great concept to reach the End Goal. Non-Vegans do eat some Vegan food already as mentioned in another comment, PB&J fruits & veggies, Beans & Rice......But when they are realizing why they are reducing, that will help speed up the process to The End Goal💚💚

[@sr-kt9ml]

I don't think those people actually exist

[@JM-us3fr]

@@sr-kt9ml I think that lacks a bit of imagination. Other than the obvious survivalist situation, there’s people in tribal communities, or people who don’t cook their own meals, or people who have health deficiencies. The vegan argument should always be directed at the bulk of society that produces the demand for the livestock industry, and not necessarily at its fringes. If you’re trying to justify that even in these fringe cases one should remain vegan, then you are falling into the traps of the opposing rhetoric, even if you are right.

[@sr-kt9ml]

@@JM-us3fr I doubt anyone is interacting with anyone in a tribe but how does that differ from a survivalist situation? And not cooking your own meals is such a bs excuse. Like just cook your own meals... And there's no health deficiency that necessitates consumption of animal products

[@JM-us3fr]

@@sr-kt9ml The difference isn’t that significant, but it would be that a tribal situation is more a matter of survival for the whole community rather than the individual. Some elderly folk need to be taken care of, and if their caregivers don’t share their vegan philosophy, then there’s not much they can do. There’s also children who eat their parents’ cooking. I wouldn’t be so unsympathetic as to say there are *no* health deficiencies that require animal products, but I could concede that there are *almost none* and those which do would probably only require a small amount.

[@abidavies154]

I started as a reducetarian for the environment as I knew cows were bad for the environment. It was only after I watched earthlings etc that I went vegan because I had no idea the suffering the animals went through. A lot of people I know reduce or go veggie etc because of the environment rather than the morality. I find less people agree with me about speciesism than do about saving the planet. Obviously I'd rather people saw it my way but something seems to stop a lot of people.

[@red_rose_redemption]

vegan for 14 years, keep educating everyone ed!

[@macyplantain6176]

That’s awesome! I’m 14 and i’ve been vegan for almost a year 💪 🌱 ❤️

[@XDanimalzX]

@@macyplantain6176 don’t do it mate!!?

[@mouse3110]

Be honest you just wanted to flex your 14 years lmfao

[@jeenjeanjeen]

Today is my 8 year veganniversary!

[@caliskaterboy626]

@@macyplantain6176 That’s awesome! So great you’re vegan earlier in life than many people. I was 13 when I saw slaughterhouse videos for the first time and it was horrifying. I went vegetarian but had no idea what was happening to cows and egg-laying hens. But after seeing more videos, 8 years ago went vegan and it’s been much easier than I thought and health benefits have been great. My cystic acne went away after giving up dairy too. I hope your parents are not giving you a hard time. Family can sometimes be difficult, especially around holidays. Ignore the anti-vegan trolls; they are either ill-informed or simply don’t care about animals. Don’t let anyone bring you down for your moral decision. You’ve made an ethical choice and you should be proud of doing what many people are too stubborn to do. Have a good day!

[@CarnismDebunked]

Reducetarianism and flexetarianism are something pretty much all non-vegans do anyway. Everyone eats a margherita pizza from time to time, has peanut butter on toast, has jacket potato and baked beans, eats a lentil curry. Hell, the idea that people often eat meatless meals, or even animal product-free meals without even realising it, is one of the selling points we often use to non-vegans when telling them about veganism. All these terms have really done is allow people to continue doing the things they were doing anyway, and then just give it a nice term to make them feel like they’re doing something. #VeganIsTheMoralBaseline

[@JoaoIsntJohn]

As a vegan myself I strongly disagree. Without the Reducitarian/flexitarian approach I never would have become vegan and I find it much more effective at persuading the people around me than the "just go vegan" message, which actually personally kept me from thinking about speciesm and animal cruelty for years because it all seemed too daunting and allienating. I just could not go cold vegan turkey. I knew the cruelties existed but I felt too overwhelmed to do anything about it. Reducitarianism opened the door for me. Should it be the end goal? Absolutely not...

[@CarnismDebunked]

@@JoaoIsntJohn well I would argue that you were just doing what you were doing anyway, but working more towards it. Though indeed, as you say, it should not be the end goal-which is what the very existence of reduci/flexi ultimately poses as.

[@tphalange9030]

@@JoaoIsntJohn Or maybe you could reflect on why you couldn't go cold vegan turkey and maybe change people based upon that.

[@dragonskylords9032]

@@tphalange9030 Totally agree. Think about the difference between those who had epiphanies because of ethics while others like Jaoa had a lazy, apathetic approach that they still see nothing wrong with. That is not something that should be associated with veganism or animal rights in any way.

[@sandywendelfred8260]

@@JoaoIsntJohn lol the replies to your very valid and not uncommon experience are so bad faith. "You would have done it anyways" (how the hell would someone know this?) and "even though your vegan, your way of getting there was lazy" - because perfection is more important than outcome in so many puritanical vegans eyes. So sad to see. I appreciate you sharing your experience. Ignore the ego driven.

[@justincarrubba759]

Imagine looking inside a factory farm and being like “yea im okay with this as long as you reduce it like 75%”

[@hibernopithecus7500]

Then it wouldn’t need to be a factory farm. It’d just be a farm, which, while not ideal, would drastically improve the animals’ quality of life.

[@GarethRiffStevens]

Who cares about the quality of life they are given, why not just choose not to harm no animal because.. we don't need to.

[@ourworldisstrange7301]

Yea killing is not the problem it’s the suffering.

[@ourworldisstrange7301]

@@GarethRiffStevens Why does it matter? I swear most vegans try to argue like an anti natalist but for the first time ever not equating humans to animals. If an animal lives a life not filled with torture and is killed without pain then there is no problem. Saying that life is not worth it if you die is similar to what an anti natalist would say.

[@dragonskylords9032]

@@hibernopithecus7500 So you'd be saying the same welfarist gibberish about human slaves destined for execution, that all they needed was a "good quality of life" and the fact that they were bred to be murdered wouldn't matter? I hardly think so.

[@davidcarlin1229]

tbh, reducing meat consumption was how I slid my way into veganism. Behavioral change is hard and scary, and it takes time. As I started eating more veg options, I found how delicious they were, how abundant they were, and I felt healthier. After a while it seemed doable to go vegan. I think so long as people are moving in the right direction, we should support and encourage them.

[@polkadot9505]

hey, I'm trying to figure out my stance on this and I'm curious - do you think you still would have stuck to your reducetarianism-to-veganism if veganism was your end goal to begin with? Or would that have still been too daunting even though it was step by step? The reason I ask is because many people are saying they're "ok with reducing as long as the end goal is veganism", which is fine in theory but like I wonder if that 'too much commitment at once' factor would still apply :)

[@TheVeganVampire]

Reducitarianism panders to human interests, displaces the animals as victims and relegates them to abstractions as opposed to individuals. Most people 'care' about animals. Reducitarianism teaches people that they can both care about animals and continue to exploit them. This is a very dangerous message to perpetuate. Truly caring about animals necessitates veganism

[@anyamiranda9452]

Your avatar scared the h3ll out of me 😳😳

[@Chris-dx4mf]

I’ve been thinking about this in the fringes of my mind for a while now and I’m glad someone put it into words so pointedly and eloquently. Thank you

[@cheekiestclan5668]

Well put, totally correct.

[@TheVeganVampire]

@@Chris-dx4mf Thanks 😊 It's something I've been mulling over for a while myself. Reducitarianism has never sat right with me, but it's took listening to others opinions for me to be able to properly articulate my issues with it

[@TheVeganVampire]

@@cheekiestclan5668 thank you 😊

[@sia1036]

just got this from someone today at school - 'but... I don't eat that much meat'. my response: that's fine, the animal's only a little bit dead then.

[@ronniegeorge3152]

and now your response can include asking them to watch this video :)

[@sopheakko697]

Yeah and he’s reducing harm just like you

[@Assassin99584]

Hypocrite

[@ronniegeorge3152]

@@Assassin99584 bad bot

[@ragzzy2814]

@@sopheakko697 only a little bit of intentional slavery rape and murder is just like none?

[@marcolopez8087]

What a great channel!! I discovered it just 2 days ago and I cant stop watching the videos. Thank you for the great work.

[@evanstroessner5090]

As much as I agree with you on other topics relating to veganism, I have to disagree with this take Ed. While I can understand the draw towards the (incredibly emotionally charged) dog-beating owner analogy, I think the key difference lies within veganism's relation to the meat industry. When a vegan abstains from eating meat, they no longer provide any monetary support to animal farmers, and therefore, on average, animal cruelty will reduce. It is not the act of eating meat (which is unable to experience suffering), that is immoral; it is the support of the production of this meat, which unilaterally increases suffering. So I don't think it is fair to compare a reduction in direct action, such as beating a dog, to a reduction in indirect action, like buying meat or dairy. If we were to say indirect action was equivalent to direct action, then we would all be slave-owners and child abusers for owning the technology that we're using to discuss these issues. As a quick, and fairly semantic, side point, I think we have to acknowledge that when the animal industry shrinks as a result of people becoming vegan, no animals are liberated, as a dog may be from an abusive owner. Instead, fewer animals are born to be exploited and killed. Of course, reducing the number of miserable lives lived by farm animals is a reduction of suffering, but there is no way that abstaining from buying and eating animal products can liberate an animal, as so many vegans would like to believe. Once again, I find that your analogy isn't quite accurate to the situation at hand. I think the most important point to address is the impact that this all-or-nothing stance has on potential reducetarians who are hesitant to fully commit to veganism. The idea that no less than 100% of one's animal intake must cease in order for them to have any real impact is discouraging to people who can't reasonably expect to eliminate all meat from their diet, and this is discounting the absurd idea that 100, or even 1 million deaths, is just as bad as 1 billion, which your argument seems to be based on. We need to understand that one, most people are lazy, and two, that society today is built for meat-eaters. If we are able to push people toward just eating less meat, not only will veganism become a more reasonable end goal for reducetarians, but society will also shift to accommodate vegans. We have already begun to see this shift as vegetarianism and "Meatless Mondays" have become popular. Though not vegan, they are making it possible to live as a vegan, which would have been much more difficult even a few decades ago. When we are seeking to change the world, pragmatism is key, and sometimes we must abandon our personal fanaticism in favor of progress, even if what we are advocating for truly is righteous. Thank you so much for the work you've done on this channel, though. You have made the strongest arguments for veganism I have seen and you actually confront people in a productive way.

[@stevnrey]

Top notch editing Ed. keep it up!

[@caseybrooks6690]

love your videos!

[@veganfortheanimals6994]

Such an important topic to address, excellent video Ed and team....sharing

[@mrwallygator501]

True, morality must be measured from the prespective of the individual victim affected by our actions. Every glass of milk, every egg, every piece of meat comes from individuals that did not give those away gladly of willingly, they were taken by force for benefit of others and they get nothing good in return. Love your work mate, much love and respect from Mexico.

[@v.a.n.e.]

is there a reason why you would talk to food?. I can't imagine a situation in which you ask a lettuce for consent to take a place in your gut. yet, anything is possible nowadays.

[@v.a.n.e.]

could you give an example of at least one type of food that gives consent to be eaten? besides, where did the notion that consent must be gained come from? @@OM617a

[@pianoman159]

Viva Mexico!

[@mrwallygator501]

@@v.a.n.e. no animal walks into a slaughterhouse happy it will have their throat slit. No cow is happy humans take her milk intended for her calf, or when her calf is taken from her. The fact is that you have objectified animals to such a degree, that even considering what they would actually want is outside of your capacity for thought.

[@v.a.n.e.]

@@mrwallygator501 please stop anthropomorphizing the world around you. save this comment of yours and read it in a few years, when you'll already wear your former-vegan hat. I'm hoping you'll see how ridiculous it is.

[@DebugYourBrain]

According to psychologist Casey Taft we don't need to ask less of people, and in fact it might be less effective at even achieving that goal. "A wealth of research in the field of motivation demonstrates the importance of long-term goal setting. Importantly, goals need not be easy to attain in the short-term. In fact the underlying premise of the widely studied and empirically supported "Goal-setting Theory" is that SPECIFIC and DIFFICULT goals lead to greater behavior change." From the book "Motivational Methods for Vegan Advocacy"

[@julianw7097]

Veganism unspun made a video about the martyrdom effect a long time ago. You might find it interesting, if you haven't already seen it.

[@Annibals]

Exactly. When it comes to veganism people like to avoid this

[@dontwatchdotorg]

To anyone reading this make sure to sub to Debug Your Brain! His videos are amazing and his channel deserves way more subs

[@DebugYourBrain]

@@dontwatchdotorg Thanks for the shout out!

[@DebugYourBrain]

@@julianw7097 Just watched... interesting stuff thanks for the rec!

[@PeaProtein22]

As always, very well put, Ed.

[@smashmusique]

If veganism was hypothetically bad for your health and the environment, would your opinion change?

[@PeaProtein22]

@@smashmusique If you un-hypothetically lived in a world where the largest and most respected entities of nutrition and dietetic research agreed that humans DO NOT need consume or use animal products to live a long, healthy life, then would you still choose to pay for animals to be harmed?

[@smashmusique]

@@PeaProtein22 dude I'm vegan for the moral aspect...

[@keithh23]

Reducetarianism is like going into a negotiation and conceding on your arguments before the negotiation starts without any pressure to do so.

[@luvamiart8567]

Vegan for 2 years ago and couldn't be happier with my decision! Thank you for all your advocacy, Ed. When I went flexivegan (2 years and 3 months ago), I did it partly for the animals but also for the environment, and I had that mentality of "well, one cookie that has milk every 10 days surely won't have an impact in the world", but I wasn't thinking of the impact in the world of that one animal. Your videos helped me to achieve the full transition without missing anything. I want to start my own activism too now.

[@sameerasmr6217]

Earthling Ed and Joey Carbstrong are very good and clear with explanations. Come on both...! Thank you for your difficult obligations for poor animals...!! Long well...!!!

[@ThePimpsSis]

Joey gets so much more hate for no reason. Its so sad. :(

[@MrJavacash]

clear explanations? It's clear vegans are misinformed I'll tell you that! And the fact that you're embracing them really goes to show the kind of person you are!

[@sameerasmr6217]

@@MrJavacash thank you mac'donald

[@ThingsYoudontwanttohear]

@@MrJavacash Misinformed? So animals are not horribly mistreated in factory farms? Please post at least some evidence before you call someone else misinformed.

[@ThePimpsSis]

@@MrJavacash go troll somewhere else, nice try.

[@exoterminator7085]

Up for the algorithm. Good work as always Ed!

[@lllULTIMATEMASTERlll]

I agree. However, we need to remember that less is better than the same. Reducing is not the goal, but it can conceivably be a step in our goal.

[@johnhachey9239]

Maybe, but it seems to be that we always get less anyways. There's never been a time when we asked for something radical and it wasn't compromised on. For example. MLK (and other leaders of civil rights) were democratic socialists, who wanted radical wealth distribution and reperations for black people, as well as an end to segregation, systemic racism, disenfranchisement, and all the other stuff of the civil rights movement. In the end, he and the movement were only really got an end segregation. The point I'm trying to make is there's always a compromise. If you do the compromising first, it only gets further compromised.

[@plumadeicaro]

I think the problem Ed is addressing is not whether it is helpful or not, which obviously is, but the philosophy of reducetarianism on the long run and the dangers of having "eating less, but still eating meat" as the main goal rather than a step. Reducing your meat consumption can be a step into veganism, but that is not exactly Reducetarianism.

[@lllULTIMATEMASTERlll]

@@plumadeicaro I agree.

[@lllULTIMATEMASTERlll]

@@johnhachey9239 but in the case of MLK, they were at a point where it was conceivable that it would work. The issue is that they were WAY closer to civil rights than we are to veganism.

[@johnhachey9239]

@@lllULTIMATEMASTERlll Not really. I understand what you mean on a large scale, but let me explain. The fight for civil rights was harder because that involved changing every institution and ammending government laws, plus getting everyone on board. Veganism on the other hand is as easy as switching your diet choices, and it's not like there isn't the means to do it. Veganism is as simple as someone being convinced that they should be vegan and them doing it. But when a racist person is convinced to stop being racist, that doesn't change laws.

[@cloudysensation8406]

Thank you, Ed. This was a well needed video. I'm sharing it with my friends ☺️🙏🏽

[@eddiemasa77]

The compromise reminds me of the “middle ground fallacy “ which I would believe you should incorporate in your vocabulary Ed

[@rahtsnake144]

oooooh, yes!

[@justinberber9848]

Vegans have a logical fallacy for everything. You think just saying the word fallacy means you win the debate

[@plumadeicaro]

@@justinberber9848 saying fallacy does not win an argument. Making actual points and proving that who you are talking to is using fallacies instead of having valid points does.

[@ragzzy2814]

@@justinberber9848 people who support animal abuse have to use so much fallacious reasoning to continue doing so 😂

[@justinberber9848]

@@ragzzy2814 Vegans have no argument so you appeal to logical fallacies

[@yolandavonbraunhut2363]

Beautifully done video! Very compelling, Ed! You are a powerful voice for the animals, the Earth, and an advocate for humanity as well! I’ve been vegan for around 20 years and it’s the best decision of my life! What’s being done to the animals used for our food is unbearable and it must stop!

[@zodd67]

I didn't even know this was a thing with it's own foundation....There appears to even be a Flexitarian foundation/society site. Very strange, even though it's not a solution it's going to appeal to most semi guilty people stuck in that slight guilt phase.

[@vioheubach3112]

That is not a good sign! That means people are identifying themselves with it and that could mean they get stuck in their "flexitarianism".

[@JoaoIsntJohn]

@@vioheubach3112 hi I started flexitarian and now I'm vegan. My best friend is going the same way. Veganism as a philosophy had actively put me off going plant based for quite some years (that's on me for sure but it was my experience). I understand your fears but I think in practice not everyone sees reduce/flexitarianism as an end goal for that long.

[@vioheubach3112]

@Joao Valido Vaz I wish that was true for everyone, but there might be people that think they are already doing enough in reducing (my mom for example, although she is not calling herself "reducitarian"). But I am glad you are vegan now 😊

[@elremito]

Very interesting ! This is definitely a discussion we need to have… I don’t know if there are social psychology studies that tell us wether full change is better achieved progressively (with the risk of stoping midway) or radically (with the risk of going back). This is just my personal experience (of which no one should draw general conclusions): I’ve seen a few people go suddenly vegan and come back to eating meat whereas I was very progressive and never went back! I went from a standard meat eater (up to age 25) to an « ethical »/reductionist meat eater (outdoor raised animals) to a vegetarian (for 1 year) to a vegan (past 4 years). Overall the process took a few years and looking back I think I needed them to transition from one frame of mind to another. So I totally agree with you that reductionism doesn’t make eating meat moral but it could (we’d need science to back or contradict this) put people in a position where it’s easier for them to become vegetarian then vegan. On the « less victims equal more moral » argument. That’s a hard one. -I would say numbers can’t be a sufficient argument but at the same time it has to count somehow: if humanity killed a few hundred animals per year for eating, it wouldn’t make it moral but it would be much easier to bare. I think it’s the reason why you remind people that trillions of animals are killed each year… No war is acceptable, but wars that have killed millions are the ones that weigh the heaviest on our consciousness. -To contradict the number argument however, we also know the the context and intentions behind a wrongdoing is very important. If I believe Veritassium’s last video, leaded gasoline is held responsible for over 100 million deaths worldwide, almost 17 times as much as the estimated deaths from the Holocaust, should that mean that the first is 17 times worse than the other? Anyways, I just wanted to point out that there is a lot of philosophy behind these questions and while we want a vegan world, the best way to achieve this is far from obvious. Thanks for your hard work and amazing content!

[@laurainman3244]

Yes, I do think there needs to be a change in approach--less talk more action. Although I enjoy listening to and have learned a lot about veganism from lectures, discussions, debates, and podcasts, I think there is a fatal flaw in relying on debate and discussion as a means of changing anyone’s mind, especially those in the grip of carnism, i.e. most people. First, there is a very small window of opportunity to even talk about veganism to a carnist; after the initial expression of vegan ideas to a carnist (friend, family member, etc.), we all know that the topic with that person thereafter becomes an eye-rolling non-starter. Furthermore, as an indication that discussion is ineffectual: have you ever heard a vegan, when asked for his or her story about becoming vegan, to say that the change to veganism resulted in the midst of a discussion or debate with a vegan? The only time that rarity happens is when the person is already curious, already suspecting that something is wrong, such as the student you talked to on the UC Berkely campus. Peter Singer, I read, was surprised that his book “Animal Liberation” did not in fact cause any liberation. It is a valuable work for those who are already on the path and want a full understanding, but his words have no power to effect large-scale change. In using arguments and discussion to change minds, vegans are borrowing from the model of religious proselytizing, which is not effective because the messages are so different. The bearer of a religious message is offering something to fill a void, love, the chance to see departed loved ones, help in times of need by a great power-all things people WANT to believe. Veganism is an opposite message. And veganism is combatting an entrenched condition, carnism. Other paradigms of change also indicate how little meaningful discussion has helped to effect change. How did slavery end, women get the right to vote, and civil rights advance--yes people made speeches and wrote arguments, but it took more than conversation to convince people to see those topics in a new light; in each case, it took war, mass demonstrations and imprisonment, and again a movement of protests and civil disobedience. If a racist could not be made to understand that it was unfair to tell black people that the hotel or the bathroom was off limits for them, how would a speciesist / carnist ever buy into the vegan arguments against the suffering of nonhuman animals. So, the way to beat carnism is to borrow from the playbook of how carnism became the dominant view. Nobody was talked into carnism; it happened through myriad influences bombarding us every day. How do we bombard people with veganism? Influencers (e.g. celebrities who flaunt their veganism, not to convince others but to show how they live and how fabulous they are); education in schools; messaging in media (placing anti-speciesist messaging in movies and programs generally, not just in documentaries about animal abuse); gatherings, protests, marches for animal rights, hopefully someday covered by the press; images, wherever images appear, of what exploiting animals looks like; more and more choices in every supermarket. The information you give is so valuable to those who seek clarity on animal rights, but for any real cultural change I wish you, as the most capable and appealing advocate I have come across, would go beyond talking and organize direct action inspired by revolutionary changes in the past. There has never been a march for animals that has shut down traffic and received press coverage. There is not currently a true animal rights movement; you have the notoriety, the social media platform, the look, and the talent to create a movement. People will show up and be glad to have a chance to do something other than interact on line with likeminded people or in pointless conversations with antagonists. I ask you to please consider this path; if you don’t do it, I don’t know anyone who will or could effectively.

[@JonathanB00K3R]

I LOVE THIS! I agree fully. You said it so well. We need to use lessons learned from the past and use those same tactics today. Love this comment.

[@DominionMovementDotOrg]

it’s honestly what i thought this individual might be gearing up to and i hope he does. he can lead a unified force can he not? hopefully has brushed up on the art of war etc

[@laurainman3244]

@@JonathanB00K3R Thanks. I wish Ed would read it and consider the suggestion.

[@laurainman3244]

@Jiwon Chang I think Ed is in a unique position to call upon people to join in sustained and widespread action. It is so exciting to think about the possibility of giving animal rights real standing with other rights' movements. I would be there! Enough of sitting at home and listening and commenting. Nothing ever changed with that approach.

[@latesummerearlyfall]

this this this

[@MrTheoptimiser]

Timely for the kind of conversations I've had with my family lately. Will share.

[@roku3216]

Eating "less animal products" for most people is like me eating "less refined sugar". It simply doesn't work out as well as expected. If I wanted to really change, I'd need to abstain from it completely.

[@AiguilleVoodoo]

Funny because the majority of studies shows that drastic diets do not work on the long-term as opposed to moderate diets...

[@roku3216]

@@AiguilleVoodoo I hadn't really thought of just cutting refined sugar as drastic, but when you look at how it's in so many things, I suppose it could seem that way.

[@Capcommunist]

Clear and concise as usual Ed. Keep fighting the good fight 🌱

[@chrismraz5007]

I think this argument greatly lacks diplomacy. The issue with these arguments is that people are wholly rational and level headed. If I can't initially convince my family to go vegan but can get them to give up on red meat, that's still a move in the right direction. We've all been meat eaters before, and many of us hard a hard time transitioning. Guilting the way this video does works for some, but for others this association with veganism and feeling bad is just going to make them turn away more ignorant than they were before. Diplomacy is a tricky process and everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses, but I feel like this absolutism is not going to work on the people who need to hear the vegan argument the most

[@galkinp]

Diplomacy is tricky... Theres always going to be that person who doesn't like something about the activism. Its not about vegans but about the animals! But often people react to whats infront of them, not thinking whats behind it. Theres always a meaning or an intention...thats whats important.

[@gamegirl949]

In my personal experience and observations, advocating veganism gets people to take meaningful steps towards reduction (ex. no red meat/milk) if not going fully vegan, whereas pitching them 'reducitarianism' begets nothing--as the speaker in Ed's video said, 'we're all somewhat of a reducitarian'. I think Ed articulated it perfectly: by setting veganism as the end goal, reduction still remains an option, whereas if reduction is the only goal, veganism is impossible.

[@cgortz89]

So well put! I especially appreciate how you point out how it's more viable to advocate veganism over reducitarianism. (4.13.)

[@roskisboss2920]

Thanks Ed 💚💚💚

[@vioheubach3112]

Thank you for talking about this! Great video!

[@frankmedrisch7451]

I think that we should think of reducitarianism’s ultimate goal as being global veganism, thereby making the two consistent

[@satanistvegan3021]

Important video! Thank you Ed! 💕

[@richardjohnson5529]

Being an Ethical Vegan should be the end goal

[@tinyjungle_]

Ethical Vegan = Redundant I get what you're saying though and agree

[@kattihatt]

An ethical, animalloving vegan that dont eat eggs, dairy or meat, and dont wear leather? Yep agree.

[@somerandomzombie7536]

@@tinyjungle_ Well, there actually is a difference. From a philosophical perspective, going vegan only for the health benefits is of course still good, but also forgets the overall picture. That important point is whether or not you're doing it only for health reasons, or you actually care about the animals being slaughtered needlessly. Of course like we're all saying, it's GREAT to not be contributing towards needless animal suffering (whether it's for them, or your own selfish benefit), but it's also good to be refreshed every now and then how horrible the animal agriculture system is if you're prone to being manipulated and highly agreeable amongst your relations with carnists. It's really not that tough to grasp lol.

[@tinyjungle_]

@@somerandomzombie7536 it is really that easy because you can't go vegan for health

[@richardjohnson5529]

@@pacmanmcgavin7034 yes there is bescause some individuels are vegan for their health kick but would still buy animal products to wear.

[@3Diva]

I'm not going to lie, when I read the title I got scared that you'd advocate for "reducetarianism" but I should have known better - I was worried for nothing. lol This is an outstanding video! Thank you for all your hard work for the animals!

[@efhbke]

I disagree with some points in this from a psychological perspective. People know about veganism but aren't making the change. Reducitarianism can be a great stepping stone to veganism for a few reason. One: veganism to some can be seen as running a marathon (something they think is impossible), so why not just convince them to do regular cardio instead. Two: once someone has significantly reduced the amount of animal products in their lives, it will be much easier to convince them to make the full switch (the same can be applied to the cardio/marathon analogy). Three: with reduced global consumption of animal products, prices for these products will increase since factory farming will be less viable. Decreased scale of production will lead to increased prices, which will make people even less like to consume it, thus making it easier to go fully vegan. People can make substantial changes in their lives, but most don't, especially at a population wide level. That is not condescending, but a fact. The ability for a society to completely and totally change the way it lives and views the world takes decades (unless something immediately life-threatening happens). Some people accept this change completely and immediately, but most only change a little bit and pass on this to the next generation. Big change for humanity happens in small steps. Reducitarianism is a step. Of course, just stopping at reducitarianism doesn't work.

[@ขลัง]

As a vegan, this explanation is absolutely beautiful

[@ojdubz2]

Or if you promote veganism you'll get to point faster and it wont be a forgotten thing

[@efhbke]

@@ojdubz2 still only works on those who were already on the cusp of becoming vegan. Doesn't help those who aren't even close.

[@ojdubz2]

@@efhbke them people will never change they'll do everything to make an excuse

[@ojdubz2]

@@efhbke not relevant but I just found out today that JME a so called vegan isn't actually vegan he's vegetarian but the even more outrageous thing is that he's headlining vegan camp out this year

[@crisp_like_dylan]

I've seen this sentiment in the comments quite a bit but I wanted to add my voice in case Ed or his team reads these: I think it's correct to make it clear that the end goal is veganism for everyone, but I also think it's prudent to let newcomers to veganism (or even just vegetarianism) know that it's okay to make that transition slowly by first reducing their animal product intake. And it's okay for us to partially embrace "Reducetarianism" as a way to get people's feet in the door.

[@tofuguru941]

Ed, this may be long but I feel it is worth your read; I've been a vegan for nearly 15 years, but that's besides the point. I wanted to talk to you about this reducetarian concept; You yourself have agreed (I don't recall the debate/conversation/video) that going vegan overnight would have soil ramifications, as well as food supply growth issues and you have said that this should be a gradual process. You have also agreed that there are some parts of the world where veganism isn't possible/ideal. You have argued in this video "now imagine if you're one of the remaining animals" in a reducatarian world to get the point accross. Although your argument is "right", what good is that argument if you are tunneling on a very specific scenario and blinding yourself to the bigger picture? Does an Army general pull back their platoon because one of the members may die? They push through to save more life in the long-run. The war isn't going to disappear, it is active, and requires pro-active actions for it to end. Do not let this argument deter you from reading further, there are more points to be made that I'm sure any sane individual would agree with, so have patience and read on. What I am proposing is: You "add" to your arsenal of methods-of-approach. Currently your approach is "all or nothing", and this is shying away people that may otherwise be attracted to being a "reducetarian". If you shy that person away, now you have your own argument biting you back of "now imagine if you're one of the remaining animals" that would have otherwise been alive if that person turned reducetarian. This is one of the reasons many of us Vegans are not liked. We have to open our eyes. We too have blinders on. We should DEFINITELY approach with the goal to go Vegan first. But when that fails, there should be another avenue for people that MAY be receptive to "reduce". Obviously I do not do what you do in your debates and speeches, so I wouldn't know the logistics of how this would be put into practice, but I feel that it should definitely be considered to reduce the harm to animals (just like people going Vegan does). And until "everyone" is vegan, that's all we are doing, is reducing. I agree that the reducetarian platform is not good for the precedents it sets. But as Vegans, we can make a bigger impact if we find some way of pulling in more people with different methods. I know you are good at what you do. And the world needs people like you. But that doesn't mean you cannot take on a different skill-set and add to your methods in order to make a larger change. After all, what difference is it in the bigger picture? Especially if you consider that some people that you talk to go vegan and some don't. The only difference with this added method would be adding an opportunity for the people that "don't" go vegan to "reduce". Those very people that "reduce" plus TIME are much more likely to eventually go Vegan. Especially after the soil has time to recover. As well as our society and industry shift to compensate for the "gradual" plant based change accordingly. These "reducers" will eventually see the direction we are going and since they would have already been a "reducer" at that point, the next step of going "vegan" will not only be more realistic to them, but they will be a lot more receptive to it by then. Some peoples psychology needs coddling, hand holding and time. Just like the world cannot handle going vegan overnight, some people cannot either. So you should take steps with people, just like we need to take steps with the world.

[@tofuguru941]

@@coracias I agree with you. I don't think babysitting is a good idea. I just think Ed and more vegans should open up their "toolbox" if you will, and add some new tools. Of course, those new tools require heightened senses of personalities in order to know what tool to use and when... but it seems obvious to me that this is the way to go to have the most impact and also to expedite the process of reaching the ultimate goal. It just seems as if most if not all vegan activists are very tunneled into one way of trying to have people see what they see. I get the whole concept of "if they don't do it for the animals, then there may be a chance that they go back to a carnivorous diet". I understand that science and agree with it. But how many more tools are we wanting to avoid and dodge all because of our pride to do it one way, which in turn, DOES cause more suffering to animals since we have less "reducers" because of it.

[@Comesonoguaritadaldca]

You're my big inspiration Ed! thanks for what you do! 🌿#GoVegan 👏🏻

[@austinlangdon9847]

I can only speak of my own experience. I became a vegatarian at the drop of the hat, because I hear one single argument that clarified my hypocrisy as a meat eater. Cosmic Skeptic did a video about Kurt Zouma, which I only watched cause I love football. Never gave Veganism a thought in my entire life before then. I watched the video, was convinced I was living hypocritically and became a vegetarian. I am now a vegan, but that process was the result of a kind of unintentional reducetarianism. I think that process helped me become a vegan. Its a process of learning and adaptation that helped me become vegan. From my own experience, I think reducetarianism is a viable strategy to help people who are new to thinking about these ideas organically find their way to veganism. But like you said, reducetarianism can NEVER be the end goal. I 100% agree with the morality argument made here. I was living hypocritically while I was a vegetarian, but a lot of that was also me being less informed. So we could frame reducetarianism as a way to reduce a persons contribution to animal suffering while they continue to learn about what kind of other changes they need to make as the continue learning about animal agriculture. Could say something like "Well, its great that youre reducing your meat consumption, but maybe keep researching with an open mind and see if Veganism makes sense to you." The morality argument against reducetarianism is strong. But I think the strategic argument in favor of reducetarianism as a path to veganism might be just as strong as long as it is clear that veganism is the end goal. Maybe that will make more vegans? Again, thats only my personal experience though.

[@cheekiestclan5668]

I think a key point was that we shouldn't advocate for reducitarianism at all though, or give praise to those in it, as it should be (as it was for yourself) an uncomfortable and temporary transitioning phase. Can't make it too comfy! And as Ed says, if you advocate for veganism, all 3 options are still on the table.

[@austinlangdon9847]

@@cheekiestclan5668 You're right, we shouldnt make reducetarianism "too comfy". We dont want people to be satisfied with only reducing meat consumption or being vegetarian. My only argument, based solely on my own experience, was that if people are feeling like they're "doing better" by reducing meat or being vegetarian, that might be a good way to keep them on track to becoming vegan. This still allows natural feelings of guilt, that will accompany the transition, to move people towards veganism as they keep learning. I dont think its a one size fits all kind of thing, but thats how I became vegan. It was a learning process, and it could help to keep that in mind. But maybe other approaches work better for other people.

[@leonardoterzani9639]

Amazing analysis, thank you Ed

[@CatherineKlein94]

Amen 🙌🏼

[@princedoge4586]

Ed dropping another fire video!

[@AlyssonAugusto]

Reducitarianism can't be a good goal, but can be a strategy. The goal needs to be veganism.

[@x-latetv-x6816]

Reducetarian is your only goal, either go that route or just give up

[@stefanosanastasi99]

@@x-latetv-x6816 what are you talking about? Are you mentally okay mate? Have you ever heard of incremental changes?? "Step by step"?? Jesus with some of you people.

[@ronniegeorge3152]

and as the video points out, it's an ineffective, harmful, and condescending strategy

[@Crazycorn2]

@@x-latetv-x6816 Exactly. It's either that or nothing.

[@nybcp]

Thanks again Dr.Winters 💚🌱✊🏾

[@ericbabasonico]

being realistic, i think aiming for a vegan world is very difficult to achive today. we're on the right path, but still a long way to go. on the other hand, reducing the consumption of animal products could be a more reachable starting point, and could motivate people knowing they're doing a good thing. some might find out that they still want to keep eating meat, but many others will go 100% vegan with time.

[@cheekiestclan5668]

But did you watch the video? He made a handful of really strong reasons as to why we wouldn't advocate for reducitarianism. People will make their own decisions, but what we advocate for should be the end goal no?

[@julianw7097]

I don't think the likelihood of the world going vegan soon was even brought up. It isn't necessarily relevant to what our approach should be. It could be the case that advocating for veganism will create the better world in both the case where the world goes vegan soon and the case where it does not.

[@johnhachey9239]

I think it's the difference between what realistically will happen and saying what an acceptable goal is. Every time we want to make radical change, or any change for that matter, it's never really fully achieved. There's concessions, and compromise, on whichever goal it is. That is to say, realistically if you say the ideal goal is veganism, a lot of people will go vegan as we've seen, but many will reduce, or do nothing. When you say the ideal goal is reductionism (or the acceptable goal), they'll be less reduction happening because there will be concessions on that goal too. Or to put it like this; if you aim for the sun, you'll hit the moon. If you aim for the moon, you won't get out of the atmosphere.

[@ericbabasonico]

@@cheekiestclan5668 the end goal seems far away from being achieved. in the meantime, reducing animal products might be a good transition.

[@ericbabasonico]

@@johnhachey9239 with that argument, I could say that setting reachable goals is better than impossible ones. you can't get to the moon if you don't know how to fly. everything we've done trying to turn the world vegan, hasn't been enough. in the meantime, we could reduce animal products while we get there with time.

[@ToeKneeMarlow]

Never stop making so much sense in the way you present the idea of veganism, Ed. I went vegan and haven't eaten meat in 7 years but I occasionally eat cheese and eggs, but this has made me want to go completely vegan again. Thank you 🙏 more of this please. Sharing everywhere!

[@therockingvolbeat3630]

So you went vegetarian

[@HSRoss-lz2lc]

Driving cars and flying when we don't need to are also injustices to the global poor and free living animals we kill with our GHG emissions but most people can't give this up all at once all on their own. There are so many things about our rich country consumer lifestyles that are deeply unjust. Still, virtually all of us are only able to change certain parts of them bit by bit, and we desperately need institutional support to do better. I say this as someone who has been vegan for 18 years, gave up flying 5 years ago, and has struggled to reduce driving and plastic consumption as much as possible in recent years. I know I still do injustices all the time but I am trying to reduce them as much as I can and I started with what seemed to me to be the biggest and most pervasive and easiest to change unjust parts of my life first.

[@gilesdesign]

Excellent video as always

[@leaderence3290]

Would people encourage child molesters to reduce the number of children they are molesting or reduce the number of times they molest a child?????

[@x-latetv-x6816]

No we just lock them up or chemically castrate

[@pianoman159]

Thanks for everything that you do for the animals Ed!

[@Mag_1418]

Preach 🙌

[@nandspeartree7263]

I've been vegan almost 2 years and I'm so happy with my change and don't think going back, I just want to convince more people in my circle but I fall back thinking about their reaction of making me seeming preachy so I try to convey by example and in some cases try to talk about what really happens in the meat and animal derived products industry.

[@Ermude10]

The key part in this video in my opinion is that reducitarianism cannot be the end goal in itself, because of the reasons stated in the video. BUT, I think it's totally fine and even sometimes very beneficial to argue for reductionism as a stepping stone to veganism. The practical change that happens with people reducing animal consumption is hugely important, but it needs to be made clear that it's just a part of the journey.

[@eatitra]

I totally agree with you. You can't force anyone to go Vegan I don't care how convincing your argument is. Change happens overtime, not overnight. Just like the idea that the dairy industry is collapsing, sure it is but we won't see the destruction of it immediately. People are becoming more and more health conscious everyday without force so we shouldn't try to force them to go cold turkey now so the best way is to spread awareness, expose them to more plant based alternatives via a cooking channel or hell a Vegan restaurant and allow Nature to handle the rest meaning, God will do his work on those who are ready to let go of their old ways of living and thinking.

[@PogieJoe]

Really great Vox-style motion graphics!

[@Lorenzo_That_Vegan_Dad]

I always make it a point to make it clear, that veganism has nothing to do with reducetarianism.

[@IanParker]

Thank you for your continued work.

[@petter3995]

Reducetarianism seems quite a meaningless term.

[@pauuulkk]

honestly, I think that it is an overall positive for people to promote or a subscribe to plant based diet even sometimes. Many people will just never become vegan and reducitarianism is a good start. The future is coming! Look up companies like Mosa meat - they basically create cell cultured meat meaning we get the same product without any suffering or harsh environmental consequences! You are a legend Ed!

[@stefanosanastasi99]

It's so much easier to convince someone to reduce their consumption than to outright stop completely. Also when they have already reduced it and have familiarised themselves with vegan options it's so much easier for them to cut it completely. Not a lot of people are going vegan cold turkey and to pretend otherwise it's delusional and in my opinion harms the movement more than it helps it. Veganism should be the end goal but it can be scary to even attempt for the first time. Having the option of reducing as a stepping stone is useful.

[@ianmendoza8599]

so what exactly are you arguing for? to tell people to reduce instead of going vegan? for vegans to be more supportive of ppl who say theyre eating less meat?

[@scratcher7683]

I'll start beating my dogs only on weekends to become familiar with non-dogbeating days 👍 Reduce dogbeating but it's okay if you do it sometimes!

[@stefanosanastasi99]

@@ianmendoza8599 i'm not going to be rude cause clearly you posses the reading comprehension of a preschooler if you are seriously asking that question. Go ahead and re-read my comment and let me know if you still have the same question.

[@hellothere4380]

@@ianmendoza8599 yes you should be supportive of them. You think hating on them for trying to change is gonna help your cause? No, you're just turning them away from your veganism even further. You know, I used to think vegans were in the right and were the logical ones against the meat eaters, but the more I look into it, it seems like you people dont even know what you want at all.

[@ianmendoza8599]

@@stefanosanastasi99 lmfao my dude i was literally asking for some clarification, not attacking you💀im sorry your fragile ass ego couldn't handle it. i literally cant tell if youre suggesting that vegans advocate for reducing, or just to be more supportive of people who say they are reducing

[@cooper1423]

excellent video as per usual ed. well done

[@vegantubers5585]

Imagine if some Extra Terrestrial species did the same thing to us as the Animal Agriculture industry does to the Animals involved… we’d call for the abuse & speciesism against us to stop! 🌱

[@jumpander]

"The Promised Neverland"

[@seinmstudio3646]

@@jumpander The orphanage is a "humane" and "high-welfare" farm and the stock still break out once they know why they're there.

[@timluo6120]

I think we'd just ask them to reduce. Please godlike aliens only eat 200 million humans a year rather than 400.

[@anyamiranda9452]

@SEINM Studio What's happening in that movie/series? I've seen a footage in Ed's "Best arguments against veganism" video (or some similar title) and it's been haunting my mind eversince. Why did the kids have numbers on their necks?

[@seinmstudio3646]

@@anyamiranda9452 If I told you I'd spoil it but just watch it (or read the manga). It's great.

[@natvegan8307]

Thank you Ed for remaining ethical and committed to animals and compassion. Comforting in a sea of morally corrupt and crowd pleasing arguments.

[@nekochadechu]

When people are willing to change their animal consumption and think it's enough to consume less than none at all, it's because they are only seeing themselves in the situation and not the animal. Because in this case the version of themselves who consumes less is better than the version that doesn't change at all so it creates a false sense of "i'm doing something to contribute less to this issue" , they don't think about the other point of view that is the animal and how limiting themselves to consume less instead of going further only is a big change for the person. The idea of suddenly changing your diet is scary so that's why only consuming less of animal products while still consuming it seems like a smaller change that can be done easier, tbh removing those products completely with plants isn't that much higher in the difficulty scale, it's just the idea that sounds scary

[@mikethats4thebirds600]

I agree with all you said, except to say that changing your diet is only "scary" because people have been told that eating plant-based means they'll be deprived of something (taste, habit, nutrition, fun, etc) It's actually EXCITING to change your diet! This should be the message. People need to stop living in such fear.

[@amadeusalcantara]

Ed, you are the best! Thank you!

[@ranjinimohan7124]

I had to listen to this video, I couldn’t watch it. Ed, maybe a warning at the beginning of the video that there are graphic scenes is warranted. I’ve been vegan for 7 years and have never been able to watch the atrocities animals endure.

[@kennysoul8454]

Brilliant Video Ed

[@darwinsiu3913]

Veganism is better for the future💚

[@robsengahay5614]

We actually tried reducing our meat consumption several times over the course of 2-3 years but always backslid into our old habits. Once you are at the meat counter you get drawn to ‘special offers’ etc and you wind up forgetting that you are supposed to be reducing. I bit the bullet in 2019 and went vegetarian but also gave up all dairy except cheese. I kept limiting my intake of cheese until I realised that I wasn’t eating it at all so have had to acknowledge that I am now vegan.

[@reshanegi3268]

“An Injustice is an injustice, and what is wrong is wrong.” If someone is not able to change to vegan diet then okay reducitarianism, but ‘willing' does not justify as a reason.

[@stefanosanastasi99]

It might not justify as a reason but it is the realty. This is not philosophy class hence the suffering is real regardless of weather you accept their reasoning as valid or not

[@helloweeny]

Thanks for the explanation, lots to learn.

[@carnismiscancer2108]

Veganism is rising and thriving while carnism is trying and dying!

[@x-latetv-x6816]

@@constantine5562 just leave him to his delusional state of mind

[@jamesjohnson2394]

@@constantine5562 It will if we didn't lie to people about how animals are treated. Lies are what keeps them eating it

[@XDanimalzX]

@@jamesjohnson2394 also the taste and nutrients helps the meat eating cause.

[@anyamiranda9452]

@James Johnson Not really. Most people (including children) from my Eastern European country have seen Dominion-level footage and just shook their shoulders in indifference.

[@jean-chritophedesjarlais8435]

The percentage of meat in regards to the total amount of macros that an American eats has fallen, but we eat more calories than we used to so it turns out that meat consumption per capita is actually on the rise

[@alisiademi]

BRILLIANT VIDEO as always

[@plumadeicaro]

I think people are now confusing terms. Reducing your animal products consumption is of course a valid and viable way of turning into veganism, but this is not reducitarianism. Reducitarianism is a specific way of thinking in which if you reduce (and only reduce) your animal product consumption that is enough. The main difference between just reducing animal products consumption and reducitarianism is the goal. If you are a reducitarianism, you are not a vegan nor you are willing to become one, because that is not your goal. If you reduce meat consumption while you are planning on eliminating that consumption, you are slowly becoming vegetarian (and if you keep eliminating all animal products, you become vegan). So people, do not mix up these two terms. It is not the same being a reducitarian as being someone who is slowly becoming vegan.

[@kaijuvegan]

Absolutely spot on. 💚👏

[@benton-benton]

Vegan here, almost 17 yrs. Just leaving a comment. Thanks Ed for all you do.

[@edyann]

Awww.. 32 years for me! Nice to know other lifelong vegans!

[@DonnieX6]

Only 9 years here and counting, but vegan for life, no chance going back to causing harm! Thank you everybody who carries a voice for the voiceless, spread the love! 💚

[@anthonyman8008]

@@edyann I can help you with that

[@vedantdobhal7739]

@@edyann vegetarian since birth❤️

[@edyann]

@@vedantdobhal7739 Wow... SO LUCKY!!!!!! How does that feel... wow... I was 13 when I stopped but you were inside your mom! That is AMAZING! 💚

[@earthling_parth]

This is the main complaint I have with the OCC video on veganism. Very well put Ed 🌱♥️

[@Fizzbuzzbizzfuzz2]

I've noticed since r/vegan has grown, a large population of the subreddit is apologetic toward flexitarians and reducetarians.

[@Veganbytheway]

I like to tell them that baby steps are for babies.

[@stefanosanastasi99]

I really don't get people like you. I'm also a vegan but i don't understand why the hostility towards people that are actively trying to become vegans. Like honestly, if you want to convenience someone about anything, it helps to meet then where they are at. And where they are at is flexeterianism. As vegans we need to be more willing to work with the people some of us have branded as "imbeciles"

[@Veganbytheway]

@@stefanosanastasi99 I do that because I treat injustice against animals the same way I treat any other injustice. I was abused as a child, and I would find it absolutely insane to suggest that people gradually decreased their child abuse, praising them for trying their best, instead of just telling them to immediately stop.

[@Fizzbuzzbizzfuzz2]

@@stefanosanastasi99 Watch the video, it might help you understand a bit. I'm not going to be happy with someone raping and murdering every now and again... I want them to STOP all together. I will celebrate improvements, but I will not pretend like reducing or vegetarianism is an acceptable end point.

[@stefanosanastasi99]

@@Fizzbuzzbizzfuzz2 lol

[@alexandrabos1639]

I think that with some of these arguments, there’s a risk of not settling for ‘improvement’ (less suffering) as it isn’t equal to perfection (no suffering/injustice towards animals)

[@Spartan0100]

A agree with ed here completely, but the reducetarianism is probably necessary for some people. We need to push people to go vegan but some people just won't at first so they reduce. Maybe later down the line they will go full vegan. It is very difficult for some people to change.

[@kiaran1991]

That’s what he explains in the video if we say veganism is the end goal people can try to gradually cut out all forms of animal cruelty. Where as if we say reducetarianism is the end goal they will never cut it all out completely.

[@Spartan0100]

@@kiaran1991 I know but all I'm saying is that different approaches work for different people. If I tell my mom she needs to go vegan she shuts down completely. If I say eating too much animals is bad for you she is open to discussion.

[@kiaran1991]

@@Spartan0100 I agree it’s not easy but ultimately the point being made is yes maybe your mom will reduce meat consumption but chances are she will never cut it out completely because she will see that as acceptable as a reducetarianist. It’s hard being vegan and talking to none vegans I’ve lost friends over it and everything because people even if I’m not talking about it just naturally believe I think I’m better than them. I think the point is we should never accept a compromise when it comes to living beings still losing lives. It’s not about us it’s about the lives lost and when we can get that across to people the better 👍 Good luck with your mom and the rest of the family I’m in the exact same position as you but we can only carry on doing what we do ☺️

[@Spartan0100]

@@kiaran1991 I'd rather she reduce it then no charge at all. She's not going vegan until the day she dies. The all or nothing approach just doesn't work on some people.

[@nathanielg.m.888]

Thank you Ed

[@WatchDoggyDog]

amen, well said. go vegan, and bring on that cultured meat, stat, cuz we'll be needing it, plus I'm intrigued and curious.

[@antonsmith221]

Thank you, just thank you!

[@303cerebral]

Reducitarianism supports more plant based economies of scale which makes vegan food more available and cheaper which will help. It makes meat less ubiquitous and increases acceptance of plants. Vegan should be long term goal but people should be encouraged to do as much as possible rather than being put off by a 100% purity requirement.

[@marieb6463]

Well said

[@MindKeys]

Personally, as a vegan I think it's still a great idea to introduce this concept, I'm saying this because some people are skepical if they can even eat plant based. Alot of people I know feel like their giving up something but with this concept it kinda gives them a sense okay how hard can it be and try it out I can go back if I wanted. Hopefully then they'll realise maybe I don't need meat and dairy and gradually find it easier to switch to veganism. Although I understand your point of view but there is a silver lining as this will give veganism more exposure as people will be searching for plant based recipes to try reducatarian.

[@misty_oar]

Reducatarians: "I'll eat what I want when I want, but I'll tell people I am reducing to sound important in society, but in reality I ain't changed, and won't change shit.."

[@leaderence3290]

IF YOU'RE AGAINST ANIMAL CRUELTY, YOU ALREADY BELIEVE IN BEING VEGAN. SO, WHAT'S HOLDING YOU BACK?

[@x-latetv-x6816]

Not wanting to join an experiment will forever hold me back

[@Crazycorn2]

Knowing that no matter what I eat be, it meat or vegatables amimals die.

[@mega-lomart7154]

This reminds me of the proselytizers of my youth ❤️ I always release the hounds when they enter my yard

[@TheAleatoriorandom]

I think reducitarian works great as a stepping stone and as a way to achieve something with people that just won't go vegan no matter how hard you try to persuade them. But the end goal should remain veganism, that's for sure.

[@johnhachey9239]

It's hard to say. Realistically that does make sense. The problem is it seems like it would be very easy to slip back into eating anything you please after some time because there's less of a moral obligation to stop the act entirely. How do you even measure if someone is a reducitarian? Is it when they reduce any amount of meat/animal products consumption? Like you eat 2 or 3 less meat meals in a week? You don't have a bucket of chicken wings on superbowl sunday? I see your point, but I think with discourse surrounding veganism people will naturally find ways to reduce consumption, there doesn't have to be a movement that propegates it as some form of ideal for people not willing to make the change

[@TheAleatoriorandom]

@@johnhachey9239 I think it's about the balance, wich admittedly is hard to measure and apply. It should be a niche, another tool in the belt when other options fail. But not the main focus at all, that's where veganism goes. So I agree that it's hard to say and has its problems. Basically a little of it, when used well can be a good help, but let it go out of hand and it will backfire. Maybe time can help clarify if it helps or hinders more. You could argue that it's not worth the risk, but I think that may be to inflexible, and that can push people away wich is the opposite of what we want. Often starting a change and tearing down mental barriers is the hardest part.

[@PiceaSitchensis]

Imagine if people made this reduction argument around chattel slavery. "We don't need to totally end slavery, just reduce it!"

[@seanmoynihan7471]

I will be increasing my meat intake,just look at ed and Mr reducer not exactly specimens