The Uthmanic Canonization | Live Q & A with Shady Nasser

[@Aijan100]

I respect Shady Nasser for his sense of tact and openness to critical studies of the Quran and Islamic history.

[@thenun1846]

Thank you Dr Gabriel and Dr Shady Nasser for a fantastic discussion As an ex Muslim, i really appreciate seeing a very different side of islam from an academic level that we aren't generally exposed to growing up

[@hassanmirza2392]

As a Muslim, I would like to tell you that this charlatan Gabriel is not an impartial scholar, he never accepts problems with Biblical manuscripts, exposed by Protestant scholarships of last two centuries. Uthmanic Codex of Quran well preserved. And stop milking your ex-Muslim identity, get a life.

[@LeanOnPlants]

It's brilliant seeing the collaboration of two such excellent scholars. Hoping for more like this.

[@irreview]

go Dr Reynolds! Great guests today, such an important topic! Alhamdulillah

[@declansceltic198]

Good to see more videos on how the Quran came together!

[@I0888]

This is a message to All the Nations

[@rt2d1880star]

Professor Nasser is great! Thank you Prof. Reynolds for your work on this channel!

[@justtosuffer398]

What a great second interview; Nasser’s scholarship on variant readings has always been phenomenal. Clarifying research themes for a layperson audience is always appreciated.

[@sidneysentell2510]

Thank you all!

[@JohnnieWalkerGreen]

Any possibility of discussing the following in detail: 1) The history of Quran publishing materials usage like bones, clays, parchments, etc.? 2) The diacritics standardization history of using fathah, kasrah, and dammah? 3) The History of the Quran (97 videos) by Dr Shehzad Saleem?

[@brecht9322]

Great video. And brave.

[@santhiramorgan8329]

Looking forward for more updates like this. TQ.

[@jass5g]

Great conversation! Your channel motivates me to finish my master thesis!

[@jacobogutierrezsanchez]

Thank you for the interview!

[@thecanaanite]

Here from mythvision pod.

[@MythVisionPodcast]

❤❤❤

[@MAYBE673]

the speaker basically put forward the classical narrative of the collection of the quran with Othman etc. but there was no discussion of the historical or current evidence or confirmation of that narrative. He says there is no reason to doubt those sources per se, which fair enough, but to what degree are they reliable.

[@2murie]

That is because that is what he believes currently after all his research, which might be disappointing to some.

[@David-kz2im]

Thank you for this beneficial livestream, Dr.!

[@2murie]

This is a fair assessment, indeed. I see a shift in Dr. Shady's conclusions, which didn't go in the direction Dr. Gabriel might have wanted. Dismissing the traditional narrative through oral transmission and Hadith in its entirety is a straight-up pseudo-scholarship in the guise of academic scholarship. Thank you, Dr Gabriel, for at least trying to be unbiased in your approach to Quranic studies.

[@jma7600]

I much prefer professor Nasser when he offers personal explanations (like a detective) based more on reason and observation rather then just explaining away the standard islamic narrative. These texts didn’t fall from the sky after all and the encyclopaedic volume of variants should drown any notion of tawator.

[@theman8070]

He is scared for his life, that's why he doesn't say certain things in a straightforward manner 😢

[@1sanitat1]

​@@theman8070Sadly probably true

[@issamedin306]

​@theman8070 He is not scared for his life and he freely says what he thinks. A lot of what he says disagrees what many Muslims believe and nobody has threatened his life.

[@issamedin306]

​@@1sanitat1Happily probably false.

[@1sanitat1]

@@issamedin306 I hope so, you lot can get quite violent when people don't accept the islamic tradition which lacks historical proof, even though it's not central to your faith.

[@ApostateAladdin]

this was a very interesting listen. Thank you!

[@alonzoharris9049]

I wonder why. An online troll who only appreciates talks that suits his needs.

[@thenun1846]

​@@alonzoharris9049Alonzo, stick with getting schooled by Christians , you don't want any of this murtad smoke. Jump to another comment section and spend your day there and inshallah (and his 3 daughters) you'll get some bonus hasanaat when Allah rewards you for your important dawah work in the KZbin comment section. Then: Salah el din - sword of Allah Now: Alonzo's 40th fake account - the keyboard of Allah 😂

[@alonzoharris9049]

@@thenun1846 I have schooled you hundreds of times. You believe you are a monkey.🤣🥴 You are a key board warrior. Let’s set up a debate and watch how I will school you. 🫠 Let’s talk about your monkey ancestors.🥴

[@alonzoharris9049]

@@thenun1846 Where are you?🤣 You told me that your ancestors are monkeys.🤣

[@mcosu1]

Amazing conversation!

[@economician]

What I was missing from the discussion were the impact of Abd Al Maliks language reforms. Abd Al Malik the Marwanian ( not ibn Marwan) instituted a language reform where arabic would be the lingua franca instead of syrioaramaic in his empire. The langauage of the Quran is arabic but its script is syrioaramaic and the vastness of the Classic syriac language totally outshadow the vastness of the arabic language. Abd Al Maliks language reforms led to people slowly forgetting syriac and hence the text of the Quran without diacritics became harder and harder to read as the years went by which naturally resulted in different readings across the empire. Gabriel invite Thomas Alexander or Christoph Luxenberg and have a fruitful discussion on these issues as true critical historians just like you do when you invite Bible schoolars to your show.

[@BelovedFriend_]

Quran has been written by Prophet and also collected in the book by him with the help of Almighty God.

[@thenun1846]

Lol

[@jasontito7644]

can u prove it? your religion has ZERO miracles

[@areyeh4979]

How Quranic verses memorization worked if not doing it chronologically as the revelations received by Muhammad during the last 23 years of his life? If so, why the Quran now not structured accordingly in the chronological order?

[@lukesusilo2112]

"that is the miracle, we can remember our holy book unchronologically!" the most possible answer in my head

[@jma7600]

@@lukesusilo2112 yeah and what about the missing parts and the abrogated verses .... all in your head also ? No different than parrots.

[@lukesusilo2112]

@@jma7600 well Shabir Ally literally said muslims are parroting right? "without bothering to learn they have just simply parroted they common way of speaking about the Quran and say you know it's 100% the way it's always been with no variations or change whatsoever"

[@areyeh4979]

And... As Yasir Qadi said it clearly: "There's holes in the narratives!" So, if there's holes in the narratives... How Quran is not CORRUPTED? Don't tell me it's another mirrrracle....! But, really it's a miracle that people believe it so!😂 Congrats to Mimi Hijab!

[@jma7600]

@@lukesusilo2112 apparently the illiterate prophet received the Quran in seven different ahrof recitations then Uthman is said to have burned six of them and decided to keep one. Then came Abdel Malek and alhajjaj and made lots of changes then recanonized it etc … that if only the beginning of the manipulation that took place for centuries till you came today reciting from the Cairo edition moshaf believing that it is what the prophet’s was parroting. Common man give yourself a break can anyone call this preservation of a text…

[@shanewilson2484]

He's the real Slim Shady

[@canusapak7535]

Wonderful interview. Thank you for bringing this to us!

[@Wassalaam92]

14:45 the collection of Abu Bakr was passed onto Hafsa because the 3rd khalifa had not yet been elected. The 2nd khalifa, Umar, left behind a committee to elect the 3rd khalifa; so when Umar passed away, the collection of Abu Bakr, which was with Umar, got passed to his daughter Hafsa, who was also a wife of the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ.

[@asattar973]

45 : 20 Shady scholar call bismillah as basmillah.

[@AbdulHannanAbdulMatheen]

👏🙂 Great video

[@kaiserbeigh]

1:08:18 ibn Masud does tafseer along the verse are we going to see many exegesis of quran as quran

[@daviesp2003]

What we need is hard evidence not stories

[@I0888]

And go find Out where and why we placed the name in Ant

[@I0888]

Ants speak , as we have created to Understand their feelings ,

[@crossedfalcon23]

Islamic origins channel also brings in lots of good research

[@xeintabbaa9786]

What’s doctor Shadi’s origins? Palestinian or Lebanese?

[@edmundo.santiago]

Has anyone studying the religion of Islam realized that Aisha's testimony found in the earliest Hadith regarding Muhammad's first revelation has a major timeline issue? According to historical timeline, Aisha (born 623 A.D.) was not living when Muhammad visited the cave and claimed to have an encounter / revelation (610 A.D.). How, then, was she able to give testimony and it become one of the most 'trusted' narrations? This claim breaks the very foundation of Hadith. Khadija (595 A.D. - 619 A.D.) had already passed by the time Aisha was born. If Hadith is supposed to be word of mouth from eye witnesses who saw / heard Muhammad, how is this major issue resolved, reconciled, or justified? Remember, the story is that Muhammad had an experience (610 A.D.), then told his first wife Khadijah, who in turn told her cousin who was a Nestorian Christian. This brings another issue that I'll mention just in case that first issue isn't weighty enough: that man (Khadijah's cousin) is the one who suggested to Muhammad the encounter was the angel Gabriel. In the testimony, the entity did not introduce themselves. This is another issue, but I digress. It begs the conclusion that it was likely Muhammad himself who told this story to his young wife Aisha... and her recounting it to the many Muslims of her day, becoming the beginning of the narrations of Hadith and arguably the foundation of the religion, is clearly flawed according to Islamic jurisprudence and rules of legitimacy.

[@kronos01ful]

This is to prove that iskam is not a Abrahamic Religion. The origins of islsm is pagan not bade on Yahweh.

[@I0888]

I am dumbstruck , Univertistoes teaching absolute Monkeirism

[@sozo4115]

It is bewildering how such a highly educated person cannot see that a "holy god" has certain standards to meet like purifying the soul of people to meet The Holy God and how is it done in islam thru sex, enticements, power , killing and threats and the humongous difference in the Holiness of Jesus which teaches love, mercy and forgiveness and compassion

[@sozo4115]

@@HH-pv9ex youu are absolutely right ! it is a real shit load of BS this cult

[@rawdog8141]

​@@HH-pv9ex, Abdool, The truth hurts 😭😭

[@alonzoharris9049]

The trinity is three gods. You are only making yourself look like a fool. Your god commanded numbers 31:18. Nobody is buying your cheap appeal to emotions that goes against your bible.

[@I0888]

Take 9 , miltiply by 3 .... Before that stop .. Take 9 multiply by 2 .... Al Kahf Surah 18 The Cave ?

[@earnesteffort8115]

There is no abrogation in the Qur'an. The issue of abrogation is totally a misconception

[@I0888]

Play more with the Word ...

[@kryschiou4449]

a truly great webinar!

[@Kassalawy56789]

Thanks God for Islam ❤❤❤❤ Go figure out who wrote your versions of different bible...or why is so many Christians are reverting to Islam Allah Akbar, we love our Quran ❤❤❤❤

[@gentz8310]

@@Kassalawy56789 which one? Hafs, warsh, khalaf....? There are 30 different Arabic Quran's available

[@Kassalawy56789]

When you know about the science of Graat, you will find out. For us, it's clear & thanks God for Islam. Go try to apply the same standard to yoyr book & tell me which one do you believe in... ​@@gentz8310

[@I0888]

The Bee

[@I0888]

When Your foundation is a Lie , You shall become a Bigger Lie .... Birds have better understanding, as their brain functions in a NoN Lying manner

[@I0888]

Coz they fear Death ...

[@I0888]

Your degrees can not explain .... With All combined , 1 Name , and this Ardh would sieze to exist ....

[@I0888]

No respect for Lie's ⚠️

[@I0888]

Waste of valuable paper money that could rather serve a far better purpose.. Their are people ie human beings , starving and homeless... yet all the care is regarding Garbage Education for people who are unable to read a book carefully ..

[@I0888]

Get paid to do Absolute Lying Business

[@I0888]

This is the level of our intellect ? Don't understand basic arithmetic , like 123 ABC Start woth one letter , before even attempting to undesrtand IT's clear meaning ...

[@I0888]

Qalu , waman Rahmaan ... Allamal Quran Ar Raheem ? Qul , لا Iqra Ism Allah Explain....(Dhaalika Hu As Samee ul Baseer)

[@I0888]

Now , Iqra bee ISMY , RABB

[@I0888]

Rabbihi Mard-iyyah : with all Your pHd eeez, Explain ? .... AND dare start selling our Word ....

[@I0888]

Zombie Nation People

[@I0888]

Let me teach You Pseudo Galactic Science Brain Lacking sided

[@I0888]

Jaahiliyyah Ardh

[@I0888]

My Boook

[@saburrashid5566]

How is this scholarship they havent come weth not one fact just a bunch of guesses . Two fools

[@kaiserbeigh]

58:36 even today muslims can write quran word by word without requiring any script

[@thenun1846]

Does that include all ahrufs and qira'at?

[@merlinx8703]

@@thenun1846 Scholars needed to learn all the Ten So yeah, a scholar can

[@thenun1846]

@@merlinx8703 scholars might be able to add apologetics to explain the problems between the different versions but not necessarily recite from memory. Maybe a small number of Qura'a can though

[@thetabletopskirmisher]

That may be true for SOME Muslims. But for the majority of Muslims? No way! By the way I live in a Muslim majority country and so I know what I'm talking about since about 90% of the population is Muslim.

[@gentz8310]

@kaiserbeigh: majority of Muslims using today the 1924 Cairo Hafs reading. What was before 1924? Why Al-Azhar took Hafs as standard Quran? Why there are still 30 different Arabic Quran available today?

[@daviesp2003]

All those variants are ridiculous in the explanation

[@I0888]

Hadhaa Dhikr , not Shi'r

[@I0888]

Ism

[@I0888]

۶ لا

[@I0888]

جسد s

[@MCXM111]

With the amount of mistakes Shady makes and his very superficial knowledge of the Quranic sciences, I find it amazing how he managed to secure a job at one of the worlds most famous schools. 'Catch me if you can' type of story on display 👍

[@theman8070]

He is trying to cover his back. Otherwise the peaceful people are going to advance on him.. 😆 🤣

[@hans471]

Quote one mistake, otherwise you are just an idiot 🙄

[@daviesp2003]

comerciales vulgares y muy estupidos

[@I0888]

ا ل م

[@I0888]

Shamefull , Do Tawbah Surah 9

[@kaiserbeigh]

Quran is transmitted through Tawatur by all of Muslims through 1400 years if thr wuld have been a different quran we wuld have different versions of it like bible has many versions and many manuscripts that differ with each other the qiraat are very well recorded to the time of prophet s.a.w the version of bible are not even close to the early centuries

[@gavinjames1145]

You haven't heard of _qira'at_ ?! There are between 7 and 14 official variant readings of the Qur'an, but we know of at least 37 different Qur'ans in print, today. Furthermore, companion Qur'ans (long since destroyed) were different. According to Islamic hadith sources, pre-Uthmanic Qur'ans were quite different from later readings: Ibn Masud's Qur'an had 111 chapters, and Ubay bin Kaab (please, forgive my spelling) had 116 chapters in his companion codex; and the Sana'a palimpsest shows a different order of chapters, verses, etc. The Qur'an is no different than the Bible or New Testament: many versions with many variants.

[@kaiserbeigh]

Those variant reading r traced back to the prophet he allowed it in his time while bible’s many versions r jus transmissions of mistakes of scribes we don’t deny qiraat neither many different variants of manuscripts of different companions but the very fact only one quran is transmitted and variants r transmitted with the proper knowledge of the difference is the very proof quran is preserved while bible having no information that where did those variants came from is the proof bible is nothing but mistakes and errors of Christians not the word of god

[@kaiserbeigh]

Those 37 quran prints that these so called orientalise scholars have told u who don’t even know the difference between scripts and should first learn the language r jus different scripts in which quran can b written I can write Romeo and Juliet in arabic script does that mean thr r two Romeo and Juliet one in English one in arabic that’s what these scripts r Kufan Syrian aramiac thr is also Urdu I have in my home

[@gavinjames1145]

@@kaiserbeigh You are very much mistaken. You cannot demonstrate that the Qur'an can be traced back to Muhammad: no complete, early manuscripts survive and oral transmission leaves no trace (so cannot be verified as authentic). Furthermore, Uthman ordered that only one version of the Qur'an be written down, and that it should be written in only one dialect (therefore, the other six _ahruf_ were lost!). The variant readings we have today were written between 695 and 950 CE, in places such as Cairo, Kufa and Baghdad: they do not go back to Muhammad. You really don't know the history of Qur'anic orthography.

[@gavinjames1145]

@@kaiserbeigh The differences between the 37 Arabic Qur'ans are obvious to see even if one cannot read classical Arabic: all that is necessary is to compare scripts for differences in spelling, wordings, etc. One doesn't have to read Arabic to show textual variants. However, such variants have been recognised and discussed by Islamic scholars for over a thousand years. However, unlike Islamic scholars, modern academic scholars make such variants public: they don't hide them from Muslims like Islamic scholars.

[@saburrashid5566]

This is laughable . Are they serious

[@chitzkoi]

Which of the points in particular do you think are easily disproven?

[@kaiserbeigh]

U shuld change ur channel’s name to “trying to criticise quran authenticity and failing miserably”

[@jaisalrw3494]

They are so desperate to disprove Islam. Especially Reynolds, who we know is christian and hates Islam with a passion. The funny thing is they try to give off this 'neutral' vibe as academics but we all know what really goes on in their heads. Anyway, Islam will never be defeated. Keep coping orientalists.

[@inquisitivemind007]

The Quran's authenticity had been debunked on Mythvision Podcast ages ago....you need to keep up to date 📅 with what's going on.

[@alonzoharris9049]

@@inquisitivemind007 It’s debunked on myth vision?🤣 Do you mean Derek? The propagandist who only invites people that suits his needs.

[@unhingedconnoisseur164]

@@inquisitivemind007 no, rather, he selectively chooses scholars that dont believe in the Quran’s authenticity generally, whilst neglecting those who do ive also noticed that your own channel provides a nice window into the way you think; youre nothing but a guy who likes to go and quote mine for anything he can find attack Islam whilst ignoring anything they say that sheds any positive light on it

[@inquisitivemind007]

@unhingedconnoisseur164 what's there to believe? Orally it hasn't been preserved kzbin.info/www/bejne/oZmtdp-HltioY6csi=3egS94GYra2omN99 nor has it been preserved in writing kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJXKqJqZp7R2q5Ysi=cYxPWYrjF9ry71ka