Exposing the Assumptions of Modernity: The Doctrine of Progress | Tom Facchine

Taken from: • Imam Tom discusses The...
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[@noahdanielg]

"So long as western people imagine that there only exists a single type of humanity, that there is only one 'civilization', at different stages of development, no mutual understanding will be possible. The truth is that there are many civilizations, developing along very different lines, and that, among these, that of the modern West is strangely exceptional, as some of its characteristics show.” - René Guénon

[@SonOfMorning]

Indeed. Monopoly in scientific research, freedom (increasingly decreasing) and high standard of living.

[@WantToKnow-b1c]

What to expect other than knowledge and lucidity when you have a discussion between brother Paul and brother Tom.

[@essajan6801]

❤Sayyid Muhammad Qasim bin Abdul Kareem is IMam-Al-Mahdi ❤

[@zak992]

mashallah one is an Englishman and another an Italian American both part of our larger ummah doing an amazing job in taking Islam forward and making it relevant to our fast changing world, may Allah bless them, with respect and love from Scotland

[@Crowbot3K]

The identification of ‘modern time’ as how contemporary western society treats history, rather than ‘moral time’, as Islamic, and most Indigenous societies saw it, is important to recognize the conceit of western historical narratives. History has always been less of an account of the past than it is a reflection of the present, and the ‘modern’ ideal of historical accuracy masks the morality baked into ‘modern time’ narratives. Great conceptual point, Sheikh!

[@arifullaharifullah9335]

Two brothers from Europe. Allah bless you both.

[@wyno2661]

One from Europe, and one from the US, but most importantly two brothers! Peace brother!

[@fredie.cayed.m]

In 2011, I was entrusted to case study suicidal tendencies in teens. The program was sponsored by the UN and two educational institutions of Germany and Ireland. I interviewed over 10000 families across the globe. I wrote 3600 pages and subsequently a book The Age Misunderstood. I've been looking forward to watching this kind of video considering that I'm planning to write how the women in the West are so lonely because of so called modernisation. There was a time when women were respected and admired. Men write poetry and prose in admiration of women. That time has changed. Now men don't write poetry or draw paintings of women. Who is responsible ? Women indeed.

[@dark_attack7896]

Wa'alaikumsalam Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh Semua Saudara ISLAM ku. (My Brother's ISLAM), BARAKALLAHU FEEKUM. From..Indonesia......

[@essajan6801]

❤ Sayyid Muhammad Qasim bin Abdul Kareem is IMam-Al-Mahdi ❤

[@zinnia2980]

Thank you for your amazing videos 💛

[@essajan6801]

❤sayyid Muhammad Qasim bin Abdul Kareem is IMam-Al-Mahdi ❤

[@AhmadAshrinAbdulJalil]

Thank you Paul (and Tom).. I hope you upload more excerpts like this on your channel. Really helps those who don't have time to watch the whole podcast...

[@harunsami2841]

Full of insights, salam from Bangladesh. Both r my favourites.

[@odeebob7826]

Thank you brothers for covering such an informative topic, it's really insightful.

[@SkeeloHendrix]

MASHA’ALLAH, THANK YOU & WE LOVE YOU PAUL!! You are a LEGEND FOR PROVIDING REAL KNOWLEDGE, YOU ARE GREATLY APPRECIATED! 💜💜

[@abdurrazzak2970]

Masha Allah.

[@essajan6801]

❤ sayyid Muhammad Qasim bin Abdul Kareem is IMam-Al-Mahdi ❤

[@HistoryOfRevolutions]

"Would it not be laughable if the sun, for instance, were described as old or “reactionary” and hence it should be replaced by a new and more “progressive” star. Similarly, is it not also laughable for man to be considered antiquated and “reactionary” and his replacement by some other more “enlightened” being to rule the world be argued for?" - Sayyed Qutb

[@choiyatlam2552]

Welcome to the world of SciFi.

[@-Sunny-ly9sp]

For athiests, TIME is an excuse to divert from a Cosmological Kalam discussion regarding God. They used it to be scepic about God's existence and all. Because accepting God as the best explanation for "existence" can lead to moral obligations. Now "TIME" is used to escape from the moral dimension as well. It seems like a loophole, doesn't it? I cannot help but connect these two points. "Assumptions of Modernity". Very interesting.

[@GiganticMythicalSpaceFishWhale]

Abu Hùrraira (ra) rèpòrted: Rasulullah (saw) said, “Allah Almighty said: The sòn of Adam àbùses Me. They cùrses time. And I Am time, for in My hand are the night and day.” (Sàhìh Bùkhari 4549, Sàhìh Mùslìm 2246) Just to clàrìfy, Allah is time, but time is not Allah. Time is the Hijab of Allah. Just like The Qur'an is The Word of Allah, and Ruh is The Breath from Allah. Something which is àttrìbùtèd only to Allah.

[@aluminatechurch]

I teach One Humanitarian Truth Under God. To understand this, you have to understand the mentality of the ungodly, carnal natured person. The ungodly people of a society will always embellish their sinful, wicked ways until they get to the point where it causes them pain instead of pleasure and destroys their society. Then when in pain and impoverished they will become more moral and work together better because it's to their carnal benefit to do so. This is why ungodly empires always rise and fall. Your carnal nature just lives to avoid pain and seek pleasure, this is why God's morality, which builds a good, peaceful, prosperous, long lasting society, because people live disciplined beyond these carnal wicked feelings and can work together in peace is the way.

[@fauziajasia2548]

I think both authenticity about and moral values from past incidents or history are important

[@fauziajasia2548]

Vause authenticity is related to your act of believing and inspiration for actions

[@fauziajasia2548]

And morals should be derived since you can't just assume that people in the past had lesser human values than you at present

[@samcrawford9556]

Thank you

[@atharshadab4463]

Thanks

[@irshadazeez4764]

Time as dogma is a wild idea

[@tabassumkhan6222]

❤

[@essajan6801]

❤ Sayyid Muhammad Qasim bin Abdul Kareem is IMam-Al-Mahdi ❤

[@JasonBlake-o1u]

The physical resemblance of paul to the late gerald kaufman MP is uncanny.

[@jeanniefletcher9937]

Could you please add again the book and author your’e talking about. It seems to have been removed from this podcast.

[@midoevil7]

Author is wael b.hallaq He has several books about criticizing modernity ideology. They discussed one of his books "the impossible state" here on the channel , imam tom had multiple videos discussing it.

[@infiniti28160]

Galatians 5:17 The sympathetic and parasympathetic nerve system oppose each other. Meditate

[@juxtapositionMS]

Dear Imam, I want to know which elders changed your perspective and in what way?

[@Dr.Paul-Williams]

PAUL COME BACK TO JESUS ❤

[@Andersonew]

God is God not Jesus, one is one not three.

[@bkhan19]

Tom needs to write some books. His articulation, knowledge and understanding needs to be put in a written form as well.

[@KashifKhursheed-ng1vk]

Book? There is already a book, I sure which is the one Tom read and reads. That is the clear book. The Qur'an.

[@EarthColonyNet]

@8:40, What you have done is expose the myth of 'progress just look at what is happening in Gaza. Brother Tom Facchine, we should do all we can to expose lies or mythology. So, fact-checking is equally important as informing. Myths do not inform, they deform. History is a mosaic of facts just as chemistry or physics or mathematics.

[@essajan6801]

❤sayyid Muhammad Qasim bin Abdul Kareem is IMam-Al-Mahdi ❤

[@razamughal9095]

@@essajan6801see a psychiatrist

[@SatyamevJayate-m7b]

FOOD IS THE REAL SOUL OF ALL 👉🦇🐂🐐🐓🐓🦅🪰🕷🦍🦌🐴🦒🦘🐬👧🧒👈 OF US

[@Thereisariver-sp9ut]

This conversation is stuck in present-day bipartisan Western politics and has little to do with actually looking at progress from a philosophical perspective. There are many forms of progress...technological, social, spiritual, personal, moral... Progress has always been the way of human beings. It is not new. Moses was progress for his time and place. Jesus was progress for his time and place. Mohammad (PBUH) was progress for his time and place. Buddha was progress for his time and place. All religions come into being within the realm of progress. What is progress and what is not progress, that is the question.

[@samimaaroufi4841]

Very bad arguments. None of these religion came as progress. They came as "regress" or a come back to the Origin with the idea that the origin is the goal not with the idea that what is forward is always better. Jesus peace be upon him is seen by christians as progress as he is a door to the origin, same way that Muslim see the Prophet Alyhi salat wa Salam. The return of Jesus peace be upon him is not a progress. It is a return to the origin. Completely different concept than modern secular doctrine of progress as progress is something better "than ever" with no connection to the past. It is better than ever, point.

[@Thereisariver-sp9ut]

@@samimaaroufi4841 And what is the "Origin" and how is the journey towards that not 'progress'?

[@samimaaroufi4841]

@@Thereisariver-sp9ut The Origin is Allah. The path towards this Origin brings you "back" to Him. That is why The Qur'an emphasize so much the idea that this Qur'an is just a "reiteration" of the previous message and a "Remembrance". It's actually very amazing how the Islamic narrative is completely against the modern conception of progress. We can agree that having fridge in our houses make our Dunya more easy but progress in Dunya is not considered a real "progress" as to the human goal of life which is Allah. Anything that is bringing you closer to Allah is progress. Anything not bringing you closer to Him Glory be He is a regress. Within that framework, modern lifestyle even though it has progressed a lot as to Dunya matters is actually a "regress" because it has brought people further from Allah instead of closer to Him Subhanau wa ta'Allah. The modern conception of progress is that the modern lifestyle and ideas are the best that ever existed with the assumption that humans always progressed because they add to the knowledge of the past. The city of Medina at the Time of our Prophet Alyhi Salat wa Salam is considered the best that ever existed according to Muslim even if there was "slavery" and no electricity still in that's society. Why? Not because we like slavery and don't like electricity but because that society of Medina was the best to bring you "back" to the Origin according to Muslims while modern society with cars, electricity and without slavery is one of the worst to bring you back to The Origin. This makes it a "regress" according to Muslim instead of progress. In other words, the concept of progress for Muslims is Spiritual while the concept of progress in modern philosophies is material. And Allah knows best. May Allah bless you.

[@Thereisariver-sp9ut]

@@samimaaroufi4841 A culture that has slavery is definitely not a culture close to Allah. To enslave fellow human beings made in the image of Allah is abhorrent. The enormous mystery of the relationship between the spirit and the material world is fascinating. How they are intertwined and the effect they have on each other is a question upon questions. Returning to Allah is not about returning to some ancient and often cruel culture. Although there is only one path spiritually, in the material world (which includes organized religions and their rites) there are many paths to advance towards the Origin but clinging to the flawed past of ancestors is not one of them. You see this with the Israelis right now as they cling to violent stories from the Bible as if that is their present. This terrible choice has moved them a very long way from Allah/God/YHWY.

[@PL_Con]

The prophet said (s.a.w.w) I leave you two things ,Islam and the ahlulbahyt

[@razamughal9095]

crap. he said he leaves behind the QURAN and the SUNNAH

[@PL_Con]

@@razamughal9095 read your hadiths brother, may Allah guide us all

[@rizwanrauf4940]

@@razamughal9095 he said both

[@razamughal9095]

@@rizwanrauf4940 in his farewell speech he said sunnah. He has said both but the asses that are shias dismiss that

[@PL_Con]

@@razamughal9095 I love my Sunni brothers but please respect the prophet (s.a.w.w)

[@Millathunmain]

The point Imam Tom discussed about us always progressing and getting better, Syed Naquib al-Attas also talked about extensively in the Second Chapter of his Book, Islam and Secularism when he explained what basically Secularization is. Those interested should check it out.