The Forgotten Foundations Part 1 - The History of Sci Fi - Extra Sci Fi - Part 4

[@extrahistory]

Let's explore the weirdest, most obscure stories and authors that never quite made it into mainstream sci fi lore. What are your favorite weird sci fi stories? (We'll be covering more of these, btw, in Part 2 next Tuesday!) NOTE: the previous version of this video, launched earlier today, had a few editing errors. This is the correct polished version. Thank you for your understanding!

[@Victorsabar]

Extra Credits your one of the best KZbin channels ever. Keep up the great work!

[@fluffytheostrich3878]

I was just thinking I watched this 20 minutes ago. XD

[@commissarrobertson4779]

I’m still a bit disappointed that you didn’t cover “roadside picnic” by Boris strugatsky it would’ve been a great one to talk about

[@JulianKruger]

No worries guys. It's a sign that y'all care about what you do. Which is clearly a good thing, since your work is lovely. There are two stories floating around the Internet, that explore some curious scifi twists... Not really 'out there', but curious. The author's name is different, depending on where you go, and as far as I know they're public domain. One is called The Watch Maker, and its basically a time travel joke, told over a couple thousand words. The other is My Himitsu. It starts with the rise of homo sapiens, through world war 2, and on to the end of the universe - but it takes like 15 minutes to read. Thanks again for all these sweet sweet knowledge bombs y'all keep dropping on my face. Have a tasty fresh week.

[@G_Okr]

Extra Credits I really wish I could see you guys in Pax. But I live in Greece and I can't make a hole travel overseas just to attend Pax. But I wish everyone who will be there to have a great time!

[@cuentadeyoutube5903]

Robert Chambers - The King in Yellow Robert Chambers - In Search of the Unknown William Hope Hodgson - House on the Borderland William Hope Hodgson - The Night Land Richard Jefferies - After London

[@illidrionz5049]

you're the commenter we need.

[@101Mant]

And being out of copyright you can get digital editions for free.

[@lettuceprime4922]

Mark Antill - _Oh_ HELL yes.

[@TutorNathanDB]

Also free audio-books,they are all on Librivox!

[@101Mant]

Nate Blakeway they any good? Last time I tried a free audio book the narrator really wasn't any good and I stopped.

[@faeoori]

This is freaking epic. It's like "games you might not have played" for historical science fiction books. I've only read one of these. I intend to find the others and read then as well.

[@IncredibleWerekitty]

The House On The Borderland reminded me of Darkest Dungeon. Swine men in the Warrens, and ghostly pirates in the Cove.

[@elisgibbard5215]

IncredibleWerekitty A 'haunted' house sitting on the precipice of a cliff.

[@caseygoddard]

I believe the developers of Darkest Dungeon mentioned that it was their primary influence.

[@christianbrown7959]

Also there is a chapter in the Sandman graphic novel that is think is called World's End, that sounds very similar.

[@ProjectOrigins]

The Night Land definitely deserves a read. Its one of the weirdest and most unsettling books I've ever read. The writing is purposely archaic though and it can be pretty hard for modern readers to get through. I recommend a modern "translation" like Jason's Stottard's "The Night Land Retold". You can get it on amazon for a couple of bucks.

[@loungingwithluke7213]

You should compile a list of all the sci-if books we (as huge sci-if fans) should read in your opinion. Should we read every book you mention or are there a select few that we should focus on. I’m talking about all sci-fi books even, possible especially, the weird and obscure books most people will not have heard of.

[@joaquincrespo4880]

Morgoth_ yes please!

[@andmos1001]

Morgoth_ the answer is that it is your own desision to make. However the books they referenced towards is good books to start with

[@kneau]

Book club!

[@caseygoddard]

I concur, but ask that such a list come with a brief summary of each work.

[@MrKago1]

If you want a list like that, I highly reccomend Isaac Aurthur's book list. All of these are on there and books like Neuromancer, Ringworld, and the Foundations series. www.reddit.com/r/IsaacArthur/comments/7vxcr4/sfia_recommended_reading/ a treasure trove of reading. Hell, I'm only 15 books in. They are all amazing, but just to note, some, like Terraforming: Engineering Planetary Enviroments by Martain J Fogg are nonfiction. Fascinating, but not stories per say. That said, there are some incredible ones there.

[@Djorgal]

"The forgotten foundations" - Sounds like it could be one of Asimov's books.

[@falconJB]

Yeah my first thought upon seeing the title was to try to remember where in the foundation series "The Forgotten Foundations" was.

[@Notthetimeforit]

I was hoping it was going to be on the foundation series 😩

[@timothymclean]

Until the first time I watched this video, I hadn't realized The King in Yellow had inspired Lovecraft (rather than the other way around). I'd only heard of it in passing when reading the Call of Cthulhu RPG, which is about as deep as I've ever gotten into Lovecraftian lore; I'd always assumed it was just another of those stories folded into the "Lovecraft canon" due to having been authored by one of Lovecraft's reference-loving writing buddies.

[@kokuinomusume]

HPL said it himself along with a lot of other influences on his work in "Supernatural Horror in Literature": www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/essays/shil.aspx

[@Crosis101]

I am in the same boat with you...I know of it because in traditional gaming, once you step off the boat and onto the island....the king in yellow is lurking behind Cthulhu Point off to your right....a dark and large section of the island....

[@MrKago1]

I think what happened was Lovecraft had already written Call of Cthulu and the Dunwich Horror. The King in Yellow came out and Lovecraft liked it so much he began adding it to the Cthulu mythos. I forget which story, pretty sure Shadow Out of Time mentions is the King in Yellow by name (Hastur) and description (yellow robed figure with a horrible maggoty face of many mouths and horns of a great stagg and a yellow hooded man wearing a featureless, alabaster mask with empty, black eyes if I remember correctly) several times If I remember correctly this was done with Ithaqua and Tsathoggua as well. The thing about Lovecraft is he WANTED people to add to his mythos. I think he would be greatly pleased with additions by the likes of August Derleth and even later authors like Brian Lumley.

[@cuentadeyoutube5903]

The King in Yellow was released in 1895, Lovecraft was 5 years old. I don't think it happened as Necroticus describes it. In fact, wikipedia says Lovecraft only learned about The King in Yellow on 1927 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hastur

[@Ardanel68]

Each of ou episodes make me want to read those books. I guess it's the sign of you doing a great job lighting up those authors ! Thanks !

[@saintguardian3639]

The problem I find with horror is that I don't leave horror in the pages. I often take them to the real world which is why I avoid horror. If you can suggest books that aren't horror then I would be more than glad to read them. Also, I notice the artist loves to reference a lot of other things than what you are talking about. D&D, Futurama, Steven Universe, Ghost Busters, and Fallout to name a few. Please tell the artist to keep it up because I love seeing the little additions. It keeps my mind even more engaged when I'm playing "Where's the next reference?".

[@Tina-Brune]

You can check out "Death of the earth"(La mort de la terre) in the post apocalyptic genre (without horror). It's french sci fi from the early 20th century. It's really good and (very slight spoilers YMMV) does thing with the post apocalyptic genre that are usually associated with much more recent cold war era sci fi.

[@saintguardian3639]

huh?

[@friedzombie4]

Couldn't take a more opposing stance. To each their own of course, but I relish the nightmare. I love the deep dark hole my mind takes me in my sleep and how the persona of myself interprets the entities that are or very close to invulnerable or non-existent. Do I fight? If so what ridiculous Mcguffin does my mind create to combat this? Do I hide? Do I run? Do I accept my fate that any struggle is pointless? Do I drink (in my dream) myself to oblivion in the hopes that this is in fact all in my head and lower my concentration ability enough to not let the creatures manifest? I think you can draw a lot of conclusions on the type of person I am and the media that I enjoy, but it's something I do love to explore and I'm happy the EC team is helping me do that.

[@bigo8647]

You should stay strictly with Sci Fiction

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

I think that is the point of good horror. The eldritch horrors break the boundaries of reality and leave the reader influenced.

[@deliciousdishes4531]

I would say the first story that made cosmic horror truly frightening was Algernon Blackwood's _The_ _Willows_ published one year before _House_ _on_ _the_ _Borderland_ . And to this day it's way more frightening and terrifying than any Lovecraft story I've ever read.

[@GenesisJFAP]

Thank you for bringing 'forgotten' or lesser-known authors into the forefront with this series. Lots of new reads!

[@silvertheelf]

I mean... I think I already lost my mind in Antarctica when I entered those forbidden unholy mountains of madness...

[@griffincrouch2226]

6:32 that dog is just adorable thank you for making that

[@JoseAngelC]

Thank you for this, Extra Credits. These videos are some of the highlights of my week. They mean a lot to me

[@mightynick40]

I just realized Darkest Dungeon is based on "House on The Borderland"

[@leoschenk2118]

Fantastic stuff guys, love it!

[@naveedclifton]

Yes! W.H. Hodgson's works at last. _The Night Land_ is one of my greatest inspirations in writing [among many, many others]. Happy to know that he's getting the recognition he deserves. :D

[@wafflesthewookiee4716]

I hope you guys talk about some alternate history genre stuff. Like Harry Turtledove, and Harry Harrison, and Greg Bear. But mostly Turtledove.

[@zon3ful]

this is my favourite series on this channel so far! keep up the good work.

[@Emma-ee4bz]

I have started reading House on the Borderland. Four chapters in now, and this is fantastic. Thank you so much for making these series. And thanks for making the book list, too!

[@ImrazorZodd]

Speaking of foundations. Can't wait for the episode about The Foundation.

[@corwin32]

Thank you for this! I love "weird fiction"! The King in Yellow is one of my favorites

[@philips.5563]

This may well be your best work in the series so far.

[@fucknuggectmegee5579]

You can actually hear the exciment in his voice at the start that is so cute omg. I know they have art visuals to support there content, but I just love hearing infections and tone changes in these kids of videos. A lot of speakers tend to convay information in a dry "Here it is." Kind of way, I like ones that make it feel like your having a conversation, it adds this later of life and fun to everything and I'm rambling.

[@lordzaboem]

Was anybody else expecting this video to cover "The Great God Pan" 1890 by Arthur Machen? Just me. Okay. It's a story about an unknowable and maddening horror which exists just outside of human perception but is partially known to cults and illuminated individuals. The monster is purely mythical god instead of space alien but otherwise this story is the blueprint for all cosmic horror which followed. To this day, interpretations of The Great God Pan vary wildly to the point where any two reviewers seem to have read entirely different books.

[@vexaris1890]

I hope Machen and/or Blackwood get mentioned.

[@lordzaboem]

Blackwood? Who is Blackwood?

[@vexaris1890]

Algernon Blackwood. He's most famous for "The Willows" and "The Wendigo". Lovecraft ranked "The Willows" as the best weird story of his time, and some (including me) echo that notion to this day.

[@adoredpariah]

This was an unexpectedly great episode, really enjoyed delving into the obscure foundations there and the covering of how much of these notions are tied into the progression of the genre/form. Was much more interesting than anticipated (wasn't the biggest fan of the Wells/Verne episodes, but I guess you really do have to at least cover them, and the other giants, in the topic), which isn't to say I was anticipating boredom, more just worried this series wouldn't be "for me". I just really love you guys when you cover the poignant forgotten stuff, and the little guys who history chooses to push to the background despite their often grand accomplishments and impact on the world, and I love the focus on de-mythologising through human recounting and contemporary perspective to try and get at the most believable realistic representation, and while its not perfect or to be taken as gospel (as you guys like every human are subject to biases and fault), you do an amazing job of adding to the discourse and attempting to provide entertaining education, as unbiased as humanly possible.

[@FutsuoInui]

Once every blue moon, I pick one absolutely random book from Project Gutenberg and read it. I've gotten some real jewels, but none of them surpasses The Night Land. Is one of the coolest, weirdest, most metal and fascinating books I've ever read. Since seemingly no one seemed to know about it until recently and it was too weird to just recommend to anybody it was my little secret fascination for years. I am so happy you guys mentioned, I'll definitely check out all of the other books you recommended.

[@stantrien8106]

It's sad that this one-off mention is likely the closest The Night Land has ever gotten to mainstream attention.

[@DesignatedMember]

I have considered this reply with my brain-elements, and come to consider it a much worthy and proper argument, as you well know. Cue 50 pages of talking about love and then an attack from the humped men, as you well know.

[@Suprsim]

Never stop making these! So Good!

[@CHEEZBRGR01]

This is awesome. All of these books are precisely my taste yet i somehow never heard of most. Thank you!

[@TurdApocolypse]

I love this show. I love this channel. I love what you guys are able to introduce me to again and again and again. Many of these books are on my reading list now.

[@lizerdspherex]

I love your use of Mignola's art. He's perfect for horror and the macabre. .

[@matthewryan7775]

"Clementine will remember that" made me spit out me coffee I love this channel so much

[@michaelolson7626]

What a wonderful word, phantasmagoric. Fantastic work as always guys, I always appreciate these installments.

[@gingerjesus6383]

You definitely need to do an episode on Terry Pratchett!

[@ashleyhyatt6319]

You're right, The King in Yellow does change one's soul.

[@kymelatejasi]

Video not available? I didn't even get to read a whole reply to my comment... Oh how I wish y'all had the time to make longer videos. I would love to hear Dan talk about all of this and watch the pretty pictures for 20 minutes. Y'all are awesome for giving us what you do, though. I'm loving this series! I keep rewatching it. Can't wait for more!

[@MrPippykins]

I'm turning that fairy bottel mecha at 4:10 into a D&D mini and you cant stop me.

[@MitchelPigsley]

This is the best series you've ever done.

[@caspianchan2371]

I am always fascinated with nature, whether real or fiction. Seeing lifeforms other than us do their thing to live their momentary lives in their own way is charming. The idea of nature reclaiming a supposedly dying planet allures me more. That is why I started writing my own universe portraying the beauty of nature in post apocalypse, because most of the time: post-apocalypse equals to dead. (Well, that is why it is called "apocalypse") And then you let me know that such a book exists. After London, I am going to give you a good read. Thanks for the recommendation, EC!

[@stevenneiman9789]

That thing you were mentioning about Chambers makes me think of what I regard as among the most impressive feats in game design, which is to make the player feel complex emotions similar to what their character is supposed to feel.

[@LunyMilky]

This is trully a fascinating series x') Thank you for it x') And I do love the Mignola's kind of illustrations x') Awesome!!

[@mileswilson6204]

The art style prompted me to watch this video. Great job capturing that Mignola art style!

[@brycevo]

I'm sad to hear they're forgotten, but maybe that's because they've done such a great job founding Sci Fi that they are overshadowed by their descendants

[@gurentgc3546]

Man I f**ng love you, thanks to you my sci-fi book collection it’s gonna be bigger and incredible, thank you so much brother!

[@00110000]

House on the Borderland is giving me some serious Darkest Dungeon vibes

[@TheJopato]

What a great topic! Looking forward for the other videos

[@bobthecopywriter]

Thank you for creating this series!

[@tp6335]

Please do 'Roadside Picnic' by the brothers Strugatsky it is truly amazing and it is the Book which builds the world where the movie Stalker takes place.

[@GabrielGReyes-kj1tp]

Your videos are amazing man! Keep it up 👍🏼

[@CrimsonMey]

Thanks. I'm just starting to get into sci-fi and I'll look into these classics!

[@shawnheatherly]

I am down for highlighting some of Sci Fi's stranger classics. Also, I find it funny that After London, the original post-apocalyptic story, likely inspired some of the Fallout series and yet all the games are set in America.

[@Crosis101]

If the play isn’t RUR, AI riot!

[@ingmarelfsborg1466]

I love this series so much, you have to do more!

[@AaronJShay]

Oh man, is the play for next episode "Rossum's Universal Robots?" So under acknowledged! I can't wait to hear your take on it.

[@n.b.2164]

So happy you mentioned William Hope Hodgson.

[@stormchaser9738]

I think the king in yellow might have been the inspiration for Darkest Dungeon's "collector" boss

[@JoshSweetvale]

5:30 HELLO. That's basically the plot of The Master's return episode in Doctor Who S3

[@tangolimanov]

Very cool! I'm just now getting drawn into some of these works after playing plenty of Darkest Dungeon... Will have to get some more reading up on Chambers. Thanks for the history lesson/suggestions!

[@lordzaboem]

Tangolimanov Fair warning, Chambers was a diverse author. A lot of people dig into The King in Yellow expecting more Lovecraft-esque horror. Half of that book is love stories. Give it a try, but go in with no expectations. The Horror Babble channel recorded and uploaded the entire book thing not long ago.

[@raven3314]

This is the best episode yet!!!

[@Echosinfireify]

These videos inspire me so much

[@samvimes9510]

I hope you guys do a full exploration into the horror genre after you've finished this series. Sure, the more popcorn stuff like Stephen King can be fun sometimes, but there's so much great horror out there that not only gives you messed up dreams, but leaves you with lingering thoughts and questions as well.

[@elsergecruz]

This was great thank you and I loved the morbid art

[@viziroth]

I hope Roadside Picnic shows up in a future episode.

[@hamiller666]

I would be surprised (and disappointed) if it wouldn't. It's far to influential at least in russia to ignore.

[@Echodonut]

No need to hope, it's pretty much a guarantee.

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

Ooh, that would be neat.

[@TofuBug24]

It's funny that it was mentioned about the contrast of beauty in the midst of desolation and how it gives us hope for the possible. Because one of my FAVORITE shows is Adventure Time and one of the biggest reasons I love that show is how it has flipped that very concept of beauty and possible as tiny oases of hope in a vast land of death and destruction on its head where Finn and Jake live out a life of sweeping beauty and wonder in a land of magic where the very impossible is possible but all it takes is crack in the (in some cases LITERAL) candy coating of their world to see that it is a world of death and desolation, that beauty and wonder only BARELY covers the horrors of what brought the world of Ooo to that point. I love that It's such a fun hilarious show but if you really pay attention to the implications it leaves you feeling not just sad or depressed but down right unsettled, almost guilty for having laughed at the antics you just watched

[@TheNeoLoneWolf]

0:55 Have you seen the yellow sign?

[@isaiahdobesh5109]

I love you guys, keep up the good work!

[@Agora42069]

what was the episode where you mentioned The Jungle by Upton Sinclair?

[@TheJboy88]

Okay...I want that robot unicorn :)

[@MidnightChemist]

Jay We all want the robot unicorn 😁

[@ackack6890]

No! Team Pegasus!

[@Madhattersinjeans]

I like the message extra credits said that came with it. You don't have to making science fiction in the realm of possibility. You just have to convince the reader that it exists in the realm of possibility. It sounds so simple but it's genius to me.

[@mariuspequeno2175]

Justinian wanted a cyborg dinosaur

[@youtoober2013]

Just *_BELIEVE!_* 4:25

[@kaeli829]

I remember my first "sci-fi" story was Nathaniel Hawthorne's "Rappacini's Daughter" which, maybe wasn't as hard core sci-fi if it even was at that. But that story was why I went to things like Frankenstein and is worth a read if anyone's looking for something short.

[@indigohalf]

Guess I gotta scoot Dune down a couple spots on my to-read list to make space for The King in Yellow and The Night Land. These sound totally wild.

[@TheCreepypro]

oh snap we finally step into the weird I have been waiting for this

[@goldsocks9999]

I need more extra scifi, or even extra literature (a show where you guys talk about authors that aren't constrained by scifi)

[@tiagonovaes9211]

TIL that Darkest Dungeon has its roots in some very bizarre Sci-fi

[@hedgehog3180]

The Night Land sounds a lot like it inspired the genre that Attack on Titan and Knights of Sidonia is in. It's not the same since those two focus on trying to fight back, even if it is hope less. But I can easily imagine that they read it. I'm definitely gonna read The Night Land I was instantly intrigued when I heard the description. I love the idea of humanity holding out in a pyramid. There's something about them, being the first great wonder we built, that makes them timeless.

[@MrDanielEarle]

Really good artwork this week

[@christianbrown7959]

House on the borderland reminded me of a chapter in Neil Gaiman's Sandman series called World's End. I guess Gaiman was a fan of this book, Night Land sounds like a must read.

[@cortanathelawless1848]

That s.t.a.l.k.e.r reference almost made me think you would be talking about "Picknick by the wayside"

[@Reilly1888]

I would love for these guys to cover the Strugatsky Brothers. Roadside picnic is my favourite sci fi novel.

[@talongreenlee7704]

After London sounds like the first story in the “Ghibli Apocalypse” subcategory of the post apocalypse genre.

[@quintu5]

That was awesome guys! I am still waiting for Dune. One of the most influential Series of all time.

[@XenomorphXIII]

Yes, William Hope Hodgson! As soon as I saw the topic, I was hoping you'd mention him. =) His work is fantastic! More people really should read it!

[@TheShadowwalker007]

Keep up the good work!

[@syhusada1130]

Oh god. I definitely MUST read these books.

[@thomasjardine2108]

OMG! Liu Cixin's Three Body Problem is just like the Night Land!

[@frenstcht]

The beginning of "The Night Land" isn't strange at all; it sets up the entire plot, because true love was apparently the only reason Hodgson could come up with to motivate such a drastic action taken by the main character, and it's also what makes his success or failure so worth investing in. He's fighting for something even the most jaded of us want. It's also worth mentioning that Hodgson's "Ghost Pirates" is outstanding, especially because he was a sailor and it shows in his writing, it gives a verisimilitude unobtainable for an author who doesn't have sailing in his bones. Another great one is "Boats of the 'Glen Carrig'," the story of a crew in life boats after their ship sank and their adventures in strange seas. (Edited for typo.)

[@Mavericktravo]

I think I need some off these in my life

[@DERderZOCKT]

strong visuals ! awesome

[@lavender5911]

Wow, at least now I have some new books to read. Have you guys ever considered doing an Extra Fantasy? I would love to see that

[@GamerFromJump]

The “dying earth genre” mention make me think of _Now and Then, Here and There_ ; I hope you cover that sometime.

[@RandomAllen]

These are so good!

[@JoshSweetvale]

There was that one short story. "The Machine Stops." Posibly most prescient story ever; it's BASICALLY a variant on the 'digital isolation' theme. But written over 100 years ago.

[@AltBlu]

I hope I am not the only one who takes these as an audible reading list. I just picked up the king in yellow, house on the borderland, the night land, and after London.

[@PCspray]

Is nobody going to mention the Art on this episode ?? Each slide I would hang on my wall. I'm at a loss for words here

[@denolaj]

Lol, with the title “Forgotten Foundations” I thought it would be Asimov we would talk about. Missed title opportunity!

[@101Mant]

Nikolaj Bourguignon but Asimov isn't forgotten.

[@VictouffeVideos]

I think he means the books called "Foundation"

[@101Mant]

VictouffeVideos yeah I read them all but they aren't forgotten either.

[@denolaj]

Mark Antill Well, Second Foundation wasn’t know either, right? But yeah, good arguments :)

[@maggsgorilla]

i love it guys! keep it up pls

[@wilseibel556]

Half of these titles ("In Search of the Unknown", "House on the Borderland") sound like old D&D modules... and I think there's a chance that isn't a coincidence.

[@leahperdue4655]

Dude now I need to read all of these!

[@pedroscoponi4905]

You guys talking abot post-apocalipse made me remember I have to finish playing the Metro games And also wonder if you guys will cover the novels in this series, as well :p