Final Fantasy VII: Breaking the Remake - Reboots, Remasters, and Remakes - Extra Credits

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Everything old is new again! All storytelling mediums eventually wrap around to trying to retell the stories of the past, but what does that mean? What is the difference between a reboot, remaster, and a remake? And how does Final Fantasy VII: Remake challenge the definitions we've set up for ourselves?
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[@Derpinator01]

I think a good name for the category FFVII Remake created is Remix, partly because Nomura also used the moniker for Kingdom Hearts remasters, but mostly because the word fits with taking present elements, rearranging or altering them, and creating something that's best experienced with knowledge of the original.

[@surreal_dreams]

I used to think the best term for FFVII Remake was to call it a Requel as it is both a Remake and a Sequel, but I do also really like the idea of calling it a Remix

[@edwardnygma8533]

Would this work for things like Persona 5 Royal? I have yet to finish P5 or start Royal, so please be kind with spoilers.

[@Derpinator01]

@@edwardnygma8533 I would say no, since the full story of P5 is still in Royal, while the story of FFVII Remake has differences that benefit from knowledge of the original.

[@edwardnygma8533]

@@Derpinator01 Fair.

[@stevemcgroob4446]

I think a good name for the category FFVII Remake created would be "false advertising".

[@20thoughts]

I think my favorite realization in the game was going from "haha those things are so blatantly covering up for plot holes to keep things going the way the original plot did" to "oh dang it's on PURPOSE".

[@stevenn1940]

This reminds me of what persona 5 did with igor. Either you know somethings wrong (and eventually dismiss it until it comes up), or you don't

[@sor3999]

Cloud running into Aerith isn't a plot hole.

[@YoudonGettit]

Well... Of course something like this is on purpose. Doesn't make it a good choice tho.

[@Gooong]

@@sor3999 Stuff like Cloud dicking around the church looking for possible treasure instead of rescuing Aerith from the Turks (how I played the game) was one of the 'plot holes' the ghosts blocked off. Not actual 'plot holes', just making sure player interaction doesn't interfere with the actual plot of FF7. Until we take down the ghosts.

[@AMTRAX]

I’m not sure I even know what to classify FF7R as, and I’m in the dang thing (Hi, Roche here). Because of its relationship with the original, I know a lot of people consider it a “sequel.” Whatever name we come up with for this style of “remake,” I’m really glad that FF7R is really shaking things up and challenging the very concept of remaking games. Great video, guys. Longtime fan, absolutely floored to be in a game that has now been covered by you guys ❤️

[@9Godslayer]

Did you play the motorcycle Soldier? It would be awesome if you are in the other sections.

[@AMTRAX]

@@9Godslayer yep! That’s me!

[@kahlzun]

@@AMTRAX i thought he was a good character, and i enjoyed every scene he was in. Bit weird in retrospect we never encountered any other First Class SOLDIERS.

[@litepaw7]

OMG Hi Roche💜

[@AMTRAX]

@@litepaw7 hello ^^

[@AskAScreenwriter]

"Wait, what if the cake ISN'T a lie?!?!" "That's crazy talk! Next you'll be saying all your base are NOT belong to us!"

[@kennyholmes5196]

That already happened. There's a scene after the game with the cake.

[@thewiirocks]

@@kennyholmes5196 Indeed. This was a triumph. I'm making a note here. HUGE SUCCESS.

[@XX-sp3tt]

Then it's completely ruins the point of the game, it's themes, its tones, and at that point you're just using reputation that you haven't earned.

[@WhoIsRyanFox]

I have the Final Fantasy victory fanfare as my phone ringtone and legitimately thought I was getting a phone call when Matt got one.

[@MahHairChronicles]

I've had it as my ringtone since Advent Children.

[@nathank2289]

Mines the Remade Turks theme

[@zackfair6203]

I have the chocobo wark for incoming messages

[@DaoYeLung]

Honestly I clicked the video cause I want to see Aerith with a steel chair.

[@IAmTheAce5]

About to clobber Sephiroth too. They have a golden opportunity to have Aerith beat Sephi for stabbing her in the first timeline.

[@MartinPurathur]

Same

[@Genderkaiser]

BAH GAWD

[@zachariahjonahmaldonado5897]

Chaeryth! Chairyth! Chairyth!

[@pcachu]

"She hit me with a foreign object! She should've been disqualified!" "Sorry, broheim -- if the ref didn't see it, it didn't happen."

[@techramancer]

It's a resequaster. Remake Sequel Remaster.

[@thefinalstair]

Requelster?

[@telltellyn]

It's a requel, you don't need to have remaster in there.

[@thefinalstair]

The video split them apart so I'd be inclined to improve it, but requel is even snappier

[@thefinalstair]

Not improve it, include it

[@techramancer]

@@telltellyn yeah but requel just sounds like someone remade a sequel

[@patsg1146]

"Games don't take risks anymore" FF7R : "Hold my plot ghost..."

[@k1productions87]

Just because one rare example does break the general statement, it doesn't invalidate the statement. The percentage of risky games today compared to previous generations (SNES, PS1, N64, etc) is significantly lower... even infinitesimal.

[@neodragon797]

If you need a previous game to understand a new one, the latter is some sort of sequel, I think that's an objective thought.

[@nathanhall9345]

It's suggested that Aerith and Sephiroth have at least SOME knowledge of the original, and are trying to use that knowledge to nudge the story in different directions. That's pretty solidly sequel territory.

[@jonathanfaber3291]

The spoilers discussed on this episode continue below: I’d like to propose that an FF7R style game/media is called a “Rebuild” after the Evangelion rebuild quadrilogy- they have the same style of generally maintaining old canon until they don’t and then veer off into interesting places, they generally oblige you to have knowledge or understand what’s going on in its original form, and they update the older segments for more amazing pieces and so on, thus, it ought be called a “Rebuild”

[@benedict6962]

that's a fairly accurate

[@JoaoNilsonKR]

Evangelion being groundbreaking even today. Amazing

[@Gailim]

7R is a sequel disguised as remake. AC Seph basically reloaded his save file

[@KakuEpsilon]

Literally what I thought after watching the episode.

[@paulbutkovich6103]

Or is it a retcon...

[@telltellyn]

There's no reason to think it's AC Sephiroth.

[@Gailim]

@@telltellyn besides the fact the the AC theme plays after you first meet him in the alley? and basically everything in the final act? from fighting the advent children to seph having his one wing...

[@KakuEpsilon]

@@telltellyn Uh, other than the fact that you literally fight the ghosts of the three Sephiroth clones that somehow fused into Sephiroth at the end of AC.

[@nathank2289]

funny thing is even the devs don't know what FF7R is. Sometimes they say "things are going in new directions" other times it's "no nothing is going to change from the original vision"

[@margibso]

I think think FF7 Remake is most like a new route in a visual novel. Its a really unique way to tell a story that I wish more mediums explored.

[@Iybraesil]

FF7R managed to be a Remake, Reboot, Remaster, and a sequel all at the same time.

[@lazernor]

It's a Redo-the game starts out the same, but turns into a new one as different events and choices are made.

[@megabyte01]

On the notion that it's a sequel.... Maybe everything is taking place in the life stream? Then again, that doesn't explain what happens at the end, when that particular character seems to survive instead of perish. Oh! Maybe FF7R is a parallel world receiving information from the future of the original world?

[@Iybraesil]

@@megabyte01 Well, seeing as the Sephiroth you meet at the very start in Sector 8 is Post Advent Children Sephiroth...

[@telltellyn]

@@Iybraesil There's zero reason to think that Sephiroth is from Advent Children, he's appeared with a black wing heaps of times throughout the decade. You could just as easily argue he's from KH.

[@WigglesMother]

ReMasterBootMake?

[@ThomasMurch]

I'm normally pretty bad at guessing plot twists, but my insistence on calling the FF7R Whipsers 'Auditors of Reality' when everyone else kept comparing them to Dementors was one of my few wins, and I don't plan to ever stop going on about it.

[@thegearknob7161]

By the second time they appeared, I twigged that they were the original game, coming back to haunt anything that changed drastically. Because no matter what the remake does, it will always be in comparison to the original.

[@elenafriese891]

Yeah... I don't know why they keep comparing them to the Dementors when they aren't actually all that similar. Also, Pratchett for the win!

[@greenhowie]

@@elenafriese891 There's always three and they can't exist with a personality, cosmic horror and satire in perfect balance.

[@elenafriese891]

@@greenhowie Exactly!

[@Gooong]

I also figured it out when stuff like Cloud dicking around the church looking for possible treasure instead of rescuing Aerith from the Turks (how I played the game) was blocked off by the ghosts just making sure player interaction doesn't interfere with the actual plot of FF7. Usually I see the ghosts when I'm trying to do everything but the plot because I'm afraid of missing out on miss-able items in RPGs and the ghosts keep railroading me back onto the plot.

[@a.dennis4835]

"Then, asks us the audience the question is simply going through the same motions enough ?" YES.

[@drewmotl4663]

Or at least tell us up front what you’re doing so it doesn’t feel deceptive

[@Handles_Are_Bad.Phuk-them-off]

i was sold on no changes, just the same game remade with modern graphics and the undeveloped parts of the game we had all heard about added, i guess nemora thought better of that without telling the pr department and went down the pile of ship that was kingdumb hearts path and that lying to the audience was a good idea.

[@GoldLight73]

This game was really eye-opening for me. When you think about it, the idea of "canon" is a relatively new concept. Myths and folktales have been reimagined and reinterpreted countless times before becoming the versions we're all familiar with today, and even now that process continues through what we call fanfiction. FF7R is brilliant in my opinion, even if the ending is a little confusing.

[@lucaskitamura614]

Really well put. It's not that I dislike the concept of canon in modern day media. It has its place. The problem is the audience is sometimes obsessed with "canon", when human storytelling is not that clear. We repeat multiple versions of the story, with many parts changing with time and space, keeping only the fundamentals. FanFiction is such a good example of how technology enables us to do something we have been doing for millennia in different formats.

[@iczesmv]

Tell that to the christians they have been arguing over canon for well over a millennium.

[@GoldLight73]

@@iczesmv And that is why I don't put much stock in the Bible, despite being Christian myself.

[@greenhowie]

I mean learning how to write stuff down probably had something to do with it

[@ilkiya8028]

​@@lucaskitamura614 people who are critisizing the remake for a new plot were not obsessed with what is canon or not, rather they know the original story is good but sadly the graphic is outdated , so they demand the same thing with tweak with 3rd person and new updated graphic. and anyway when you said "We repeat multiple versions of the story, with many parts changing with time and space, keeping only the fundamentals" to justify new story , Well thats what people think first when they lay their hand on the this remake, expansion of story like trio of wall market , jessie storyline, roche , but in fact the fundamental were changed drastically. im interested of what they will bring to us but, your analysis of what happened is wrong

[@Dolster]

0:11 so that's why every dad says they basically walked through a world war to get to school.

[@DragoniteSpam]

I like the idea of a re-imagining of an old game or story or something finding ways to subvert the original. In a weird way it sort of validates the "what if" daydreams and fanfiction and stuff by saying "yeah, the authors/copyright holders wonder that too."

[@XaurielZ]

Small quibble: remasters are not an adequate substitute for proper archival preservation of games

[@greenhowie]

Gets flashbacks to Silent Hill HD Collection

[@PrototypeSpaceMonkey]

As a Terry Pratchett fan I couldn't help but notice they straight up added the Auditors from the Discworld novels to FF7R. Except now they're not the enforcers of reality, but the enforcers of CANON.

[@XX-sp3tt]

There's a HUUUUUUUGE fandom set of fanfic writers called the 'protectors of the continuity' whose characters protect their favorite stories from being defiled by Mary Sues.

[@tomrivlin7278]

If you think about what happens in FFVIIR, it makes a lot more sense to treat the word "Remake" in the title not as a description of the game itself, but of what HAPPENS in the game's story. It's basically game's SUB-HEADING, like the naming convention of Kingdom Hearts spinoffs.

[@ilkiya8028]

if you think about it , why dont they try to be clear to us when they advertised their game , no one... even for those who praise this game ever expect the change are so radical... and if you think SE just playing around with words. still dont get it why people praise the reinterpretation of "remake" , since its just changing the existing meaning of word, i mean any toddler can do that

[@AnimeAngel88]

I need a full fight between Zoey and Sephiroth!

[@merevel436]

Cats beat birds. We already know who wins. Its the show that we want lol.

[@redcrown5070]

okay but what if I've never played the OG FF7?

[@Latronibus]

Until the last segment, you'll follow along just fine. The last segment will just make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[@unknownfantasyalchemist]

I've watched this channel for many years now. So I really appreciate the extremly improved Animation-Quality for this Episode :)

[@aa-tx7th]

i dunno if i like the new stuff in the ffvii remake's story but i appreciate the creative risk and square's desire to give something new to og players and new players who have had the story spoiled for them. if we want the original ffvii we can always play it of course

[@paulcruz2246]

This KZbin channel has changed a lot, it is still greatly educational and excellently oriented to contribute with history and facts but geez miss the old team.

[@t.w.mackay11]

4:14 THAT WAS AWESOME. This was a really interesting video. While I did know some of this, this video made it clearer. Great job folks!

[@xiahoupaul19]

Seeing Zoe as Cloud and fighting Sephiroth is super cute.

[@ModelAAA90]

Still on Ch. 14 of FFVII REMAKE, so I’ll come back and finish this episode some other time!

[@sabata2]

Good call. And after you've watched this, I suggest you look into "Spoiler Mode with Maximillian Dood" to *fully* understand what is being touched on here.

[@ModelAAA90]

@@sabata2 I’ll keep note of that! Thank you.

[@telltellyn]

@@ModelAAA90 Though note that what Maximillian says is a theory and definitely not confirmed. There have been discussions back and forth about it. I think Max got heaps wrong.

[@ModelAAA90]

I finished it! I’m not an FF Fan myself, but I knew of FFVII’s Story. And BOY... was I not expecting these endgame revelations. Is it a Remake? To an extent yes, but it feels like something more than a simple redo. It’s honestly pretty hard to explain lol 😄

[@270z]

These labels get reeeeally fuzzy when you try to account for Ports, Localizations, definitive editions, directors cuts, expansions, etc. Ultimately, they are marketing terms attempting to quickly convey how a product differs from the original. They set expectations not rules.

[@Skywolve1998]

They can also represent intentions though, which is what the video focuses on. From a consumer stand point, yes the term really just tells you what this new version is and what to expect. But from the design stand point, when you set out to retell a game, these terms could be an easy way of conveying how you intend to retell and so identifying the purpose of each and how they are generally done gives direction and a jumping off point for that process. Also, I believe remasters, remakes, and reboots have the distinction of being brand new creations. Even if your intention is to bring Ocarina of Time to the 3ds, you're going to have to rebuild a lot of the game for the new engine, graphics, etc. Where as localizations/ports only have minor tweaks, and definitive editions/director cuts/expansions are the same game just with post launch content bundled in.

[@Soot5007]

@@Skywolve1998 Or, in Persona 5 Royal's case, extra content and a reworking of many of the systems to make it a better game.

[@270z]

I see your point, and I think the video communicates its intention and also points out how games can break those distinctions. To elaborate, some localizations are definitive editions. Think Final Fantasy’s international versions. Before simultaneous global releases were common, during the localizations devs are still doing bug fixes, quality of life improvements and even adding additional content. And ports can require an entire reworking of the game. An extreme example would be Donkey Kong or Pac-Man on the Atari. Those games was recreated from scratch and whole features were removed to run on less powerful home console hardware.

[@ThatFanBoyGuy]

I think you did a good job explaining the remaster-remake-reboot spectrum

[@Zeknif1]

It is Aerith Lives Paid DLC. Ironically, Sephiroth still stabs the shit out of the main healer.

[@270jonp]

I think FF7 remake is a sequel that pretends to be a remake until the very last moment. Most of the evidence in this is the way Aerith and Sephiroth appear to know about the other timeline. Love the video and its a great discussion point and primer for people not used to discussing these things. Also the image of cloud with a pokeball while Aerith holds up your cat is gold.

[@HaitaniMasayuki]

Have you noticed that Final Fantasy VII Remake is the ONLY game that actually uses the word "Remake" on it's title screen? I don't mean in marketing materials, but actually IN the game. Go check the Resident Evil remakes, or Trials of Mana Remake, Panzer Dragoon Remake etc. That word is never used inside the game. (I think there's even a list of every remade game on wikipedia)

[@MaskedNozza]

I had no understanding about Final Fantasy but this was excellent to learn the distinction between the different ways a game can be 're-made'

[@lordseriqolm4898]

In Comics and fictional worlds its called a RETCON a reconstruction of the original material for modern audiences

[@Rippertear]

I think the FFVII Remake is more of a "second run" than it is a remake or a reboot. It's like replaying an old favorite game for a second time, but taking a different route you didn't ever know was possible.

[@kryzethx]

Like a New Game Plus? I remember something similar about Chrono Trigger, where you fight a boss and are supposed to have a "scripted" loss against them, but if you go back into the game in New Game Plus (keeping your levels and stats or whatever) you can actually beat that boss, and you get a completely different ending than the normal route

[@Diamanrouge]

It astually motivated me to get back to the FFVII just to be ready and caught up for FFVIIR-2, even if I know how it ends and am spoiled the heck out of it.

[@Rippertear]

@@kryzethx Yeah, exactly.

[@mauriciobetimpaesleme8702]

By the technical difference, a true remake would not be a bad thing. But it would certainly devalue or be impossible to equalize in emotion what the original game had, since it was the first FF for a lot of people. Going on a different route not only shows the value of the original, since it is kinda faithful until the ending, but also creates expectation to where it might go now, creating a new experience even for people that had played the original.

[@LordTrousers]

For FF7R, can I coin the term "Requel"? Not quite a remake, not quite a sequel - Requel! And just to make things even more confusing, would you consider Undertale a Requel of itself? Since the story on playthrough 2, 3 etc interacts directly with the story in the first playthrough?

[@Msoulwing]

You cannot. Maximilian Dood did it like a year ago. :D

[@KrasMazovHatesYourGuts]

Essentially, what makes FF7R so unique is that at a certain point, the characters are actively trying to defy the canon story for their own sakes.

[@blackbeltgamer98fire-spitt96]

From what I’ve heard and seen of FFVII Remake, I think it’s safe to call it a sort of AU reimagining where the core of the original has been preserved but it’s more frequently asking “what if (such and such) happened?” or “what if we could do (this thing)?” In a way, it looks like a fun thought experiment of the game’s characters, world, story and even its original version.

[@danielhale1]

I watched my brother play parts of FF7 Remake and kept feeling like the designers fumbled two things terribly: 1) They destroy the tension of certain sequences by stuffing lots of filler in between (e.g. racing back to the pillar to stop the collapse, but Cloud and friends instead go on an hour long ghost side story. This was only a few minutes in the original game. Too much filler dilutes the tension!) 2) They *couldn't wait* to show off Sephiroth. Every chance they got they were referencing Sephiroth. The original game smartly plays very coy about him for quite a while, like a good monster movie only giving you hints and glimpses of the lurking horror. This monster movie can't wait to show you every shot they can of the monster, right down to focusing on the zipper in its costume.

[@Quinnknights]

Agree

[@telltellyn]

The big problem with the train graveyard is they show you the Turks helicopter going towards the pillar so you know you have to go FAST, and then they give you a slow paced horror-esque segment. If they had just given it time to breathe it would have worked fine. The original feels way too rushed there on a replay. On Sephiroth if he appeared at the same time as the original game he wouldn't have been in Part 1 at all. I can see why they wanted to avoid that, though it might have worked.

[@j.c.denton5193]

I think they're more elegant with this than one might think. When they're racing to the plate through the train graveyard, you know from playing the original that the attack is going to happen. In the remake, there are hints and assertions by Don Corneo, but through 3/4 of the journey Tifa (the one who's driving the urgency) is waffling and going "Would Shinra really do that? It sounds so unrealistic... maybe the Don was trying to play us. But we can't take the risk if he's telling the truth..." In-game, it is a -little- of a pacing slow-down, and the sewer sequence debatably gave enough time for the plot to breathe already. But if you didn't know the plate was coming down for real, you'd be less urgent. In that scene, nobody, with the probable exception of Aerith, knew this to be the case. 2) If you're seeing Midgar as a prologue, as in the original game, it makes sense to play coy with Seph. Constant hints, a creepy reveal in Shinra Tower, plotus interruptus when he stabs the Pres. However, FF7R has to ride on its own as a game, and the plot arc to introduce parts 2+ needs to play more like sequels (because of the release schedule) than a cohesive part of the same game. That means you need to introduce Seph as a plot agent a lot earlier and more strongly so he has time to make an arc in the plot, rather than coming out of nowhere at the end. As much as the current iteration has a wall-banger ending, it would've been worse if he'd pulled that as a "Who's this guy?" seven minutes from the end. Now, on top of that, Squeenix got very clever with their relationship with their fans. They knew that relatively few of the players wouldn't have played the original, and would call foul if things were too different for no reason. So they played with the hints (like those three ultra-Whispers at the end, or the weird timing and oddly neutral commentary from the earlier Seph appearances) and seemed to introduce new motivation and knowledge Seph has. In the original, Cloud was a non-entity to Seph until he started getting too close to his heels, and made himself a target of opportunity for taking the Black Materia. This time around, Seph VERY much knows who Cloud is and his importance from the first moment. That's not just a monster movie creep-out. That feels like intentional signaling. So him showing up early serves a pacing purpose, a story purpose, a meta-story purpose, and a cross-game purpose. It's not perfect, but it's very, very intentional.

[@ssssssstssssssss]

Why not call it a “reimagining”? Remake implies that the core of the game is still there. But they completely altered the battle system. Game mechanics must be considered when giving it a label

[@prestoncrawford9258]

Can I just offer "Re-bake" as a new term for the type of remake that FFVIIR is. Not only is it a portmanteau of "reboot" and "remake", but it also evokes the kind of process that a chef/baker/cook goes through with a recipe they are perfecting - a type of ever evolving conversation with the source material (cookbook/ingredients). Thanks for coming to my TED-talk. haha

[@Jayfive276]

5:29 - *AND ITS CHAIRITH PAINSBOROUGH FROM OUTTA NOWHERE!*

[@Artista_Frustrado]

so 3 things: 1.- I'm really glad you guys actually took the time to properly explain the difference between Remasters, Remakes, & Reboots/Reimaginings 2.-i love that people still blames it on Nomura even tho he has said he actually wanted the game to be a standard Remake before he went to work full force on KH3 3.-as for what FF7:R is by definition? It is just a sequel, fam, like a straight-up sequel. It requires you to have prior knowledge of the original (& the compilation) while also advancing the story. Yeah is smart that they add stuff from the OG but Time Travel in sequels is a thing; & it is good, but at the end of the day it is still a Textbook definition of a sequel, maybe a "Soft Reboot" if you want to be really pedantic but Soft Reboots are still a type of Sequel

[@archangel11235]

I was conflicted with FF7 remake. Overall I liked it and am excited for the future, but there is part of me the is wanting what was already there. The original is such a great story already that I am afraid they will mess it up. I want that story with all the new pretty graphics and beautiful cut scenes. Part of me also says they could go in another direction and give me another great experience, but I have seen that fail with other IP. I think as long as they hit the major story points I will be happy. They are keeping true to a lot so far, but that ending does say we are going to take hard left turns from now on. I just know going extra dimensional can get confusing and bring to it a lot of plot armor or devices that can feel forced. I want more to see what will happen, but ultimately I am worried they will go off in this new direction and lose what made the original so great and leave us with something no one wanted.

[@telltellyn]

The interesting thing is there isn't actually that much plot left in the rest of FF7, its mostly character side stories from here until the final hours. Midgar is like 50% of the original script. I agree that I just hope they keep the same major plot points.

[@Moingboy]

Because of the active engagement of the game with its former self, I think "reinvention" or perhaps "meta-make" might be good. Reinvention gets straight to the point, but meta-make sounds fun and carries the point of the barriers broken in the retelling of the story.

[@yunatuna6011]

Fun fact. Nomura actually wanted FF7 Remake to be much closer to the original. It was Kitase and the other director that decided to be much bolder with the game

[@fillosof66689]

Can you provide a source for this, please and thank you?

[@vincentgraymore]

​@@fillosof66689 Dunno if you know by now, but I will link here with citations for various things they have said: www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/05/interview_final_fantasy_vii_remake_producer_and_co-director_on_development_launch_and_being_grateful_for_the_fans "Kitase: I personally envisioned quite a dramatic change overall, but our director; Tetsuya Nomura and co-director; Naoki Hamaguchi, wanted to keep the beloved aspects in the original as much as possible." This is the one most people refer to when claiming "Nomura is not responsible" and it is a "later" interview. www.vg247.com/2021/01/31/final-fantasy-7-remake-part-2-expectations/ "During the interview (as translated Twitter user aitaikimochi), Kitase highlighted the significance of subverting player expectations satisfyingly - and that his goal was to deceive players in a positive way (thanks, Siliconera). Note the word deceive in there, but it is probably just a word for subversion. In the same interview he also says that the next part will subvert in the same way. www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2016/04/11/final-fantasy-vii-remake-interview-game-informer.aspx "I, along with Nomura-san and [Kazushige] Nojima-san - who are involved with the remake - were involved with the original Final Fantasy VII. We were the people who created it, so in that sense, we don’t think anything is untouchable. That isn’t to say we’re changing everything! Of course, within Square Enix and across the globe, there are people who think it’s on this holy scale. That there isn’t anything we can touch or play around with. But we believe we know the balance between what can be changed versus what needs to be protected. " Old interview but showing that Nomura seemed onboard with changes. And you also have: www.frontlinejp.net/2020/04/17/final-fantasy-vii-remake-interview-with-nomura-tetsuya-and-kitase-yoshinori/ "Kitase, who was director of the original FFVII, is asked how much input he had on the remake. He says that the overall direction and concept, story and worldbuilding was left to Nomura, while game design and drama scene direction was left to co-directors Hamaguchi and Toriyama. Kitase did not make many direct requests, but did participate as a planner on some locations in the game: He says that the initial level design for the infiltration and escape from Mako Reactor no. 5 was done by him, and hopes players take notice of it." Personally I consider it all a group effort. Regardless of who made what, Nomura as one of the directors and with the most prominent name and legacy carries the face of the "blame" but Kitase as a producer has to green light everything, Nojima has to write it and Hamaguchi + Toriyama are the second hands.

[@lh8618]

Maybe it's just because I was a total dork when I was a teenager, but the best way I've found to describe FF7R is as a playable AU fanfiction. I think that gets the idea across better than "well it's sort of like the original, but then they go in a totally diffrent direction later on".

[@kittenkommentries5796]

5:48 gotta love what the artist did here.

[@lightbeware9875]

6:45 is pure gold 🤣

[@h2ojr1]

"See, this is a sequel! This is a FUCKING sequel!" - Egoraptor

[@BlakLite15]

Personally, I’d love to see a remake of Fallout: New Vegas. I played through it for the first time over the last month. I love what it does with storytelling, mechanics, and player expression, but I really wish it wasn’t so horribly buggy and unstable.

[@IanHsieh]

Whatever FF7R is, I am just glad that it's not a REFORGE.

[@shino4242]

You know what, same. I didn't get what I wanted out of it and am not happy, but I'm not gonna call it a bad game...its just not the experience I wanted. Square Enix had free reign to just slap some pretty graphics onto FF7 and say "give us your cash". While still a lot of work since they'd need to recreate every asset, they wouldn't have needed to do very much in terms of actual design, writing, etc. They had a money printing machine sitting their for them...and they said "no...we're gonna try something different and risky". So as a company, I respect that even if the free money machine version is what I wanted. Blizzard on the other hand knew they had a money printing machine and decided "lets put the absolute MINIMUM effort into this AND try to destroy the fan experience as much as possible" and were being pieces of shit the entire time. Like in both situations, I personally came out beaten and battered and bloody. I failed to get what I wanted out of two remakes that were near and dear to my heart But I didn't come out losing respect for Square.

[@bananaeater19]

@@shino4242 I guess there's also the fact that they said that this remake is not meant to replace the original in anyway, so it doesn't really make the original thing a waste of time because there's a newer alternative (because there isn't)

[@TransAperio]

As far as I am concerned, that's exactly what it was. The plot ghosts were so bad, that I got actually physically angry, and swore I will never touch the sequels. As far as I am concerned; I was lied to and sold less than half a game.

[@MrSpeakerCone]

I think there's a useful analogue to music here: on one hand, there's value in hearing the same symphony played by a new orchestra, on the other, there's value in hearing a jazz ensemble using bits of it as a lead sheet. They seek to do very different things, and both are valid, but if you sell one as the other, folks get mad.

[@Zer0_Ph34r]

Considering the finer details of what is said in the Final Fantasy VII Remake, it appears that it may actually be a Sequel, rather than a Reboot or a Remake. Obviously, based on what was laid out in this video, it would most closely align with the Remake category, hence the name, but also as described, it appears to talk about the original game and expects you to know the story from it like a sequel does. This also works since Sequels to games often, if given enough time, look and play much better/different than the original. A "Soft" Reboot may also be a good description of FFR since soft reboots allow you to enter a series without needing to know anything that came before, but they capitalize on a players knowledge if it's there. God of War (2018) is a great example of this. The way the game looks and plays is drastically different than what came before and it's story is completely different, but it doesn't throw away everything that came before it, referencing it from time to time and giving players who know about the history even more depth. Having said that, I think that FFR is probably best described as a Soft Sequel. It's not quite a reboot, not exactly a remake and only kind of a sequel. Perhaps in the future, this will have its own definition due to many other franchises taking a similar approach.

[@tolkraft1883]

The beginning of the video made me think you would call FFVIIR a reboot and my understanding, and the understanding you laid out, challenged that. So, when you said it isn't quite a reboot despite somehow being in-between a remake and a reboot, I instantly agreed. All that said, I feel Remake fits the game the best. A Remaster improving graphics and quality of life, a Reboot taking the core and rebuilding around it and a Remake, completely agree with it falling between the two, has the most wiggle room for an identity while the other two are a lot more solidified in their meaning. And with all that said, this again is a video that just scratches at the surface of a concept. I'd really enjoy y'all taking a deeper dive into literally any subject, beyond the iceberg. I tend to come out of them thinking "Yep, already knew that from general knowledge. What more do they- oh, the video is over. Okay." Pick any design philosophy, game genre, anything and just dive deeper. Talk about some of the game y'all have worked on with detail and compare it to how similar projects might go about it. Each video has begun to feel like a tease, like there's definitely something more to be said but it isn't going to be said here.

[@Keenath]

I have a split feeling about FF7R. On the one hand, it's a really interesting direction to start delving into multiverses and fate versus choice, giving us a story where we don't actually know how it's going to turn out. But on the other hand, I feel bad that the remake does not in fact remake the game; the whole concept of updating the game for future generations to enjoy is kind of lost when you need to be intimately familiar with the original plot to understand why the divergences matter.

[@paultapping9510]

"games are fundamentally a storytelling medium" well that's a bold opening statement!

[@stepstuart9359]

I like the term "Reiteration" for this transformative style of remake.

[@GeektoStudios]

i was already going to watch this video. but also kudos to whoever got to draw Chaireth for the thumbnail.

[@HavocPrime8989]

FF7R is honestly like a parallel universe or alternate timeline. Most of the aspects are similar enough, but things are tweaked just enough that it starts to diverge, and a couple of characters are aware of the changes. It will be interesting to see how that knowledge and those differences further create a unique story. I was waiting for 20+ years for this, and haven't been disappointed, so I look forward to the rest of the.... REUNION!

[@jaydun6106]

That Mona Lisa example cracked me up

[@Game_Hero]

-"Please grandpa, will you tell us about the story of Balan Wonderworld" -"Sit down, children, this is a nightmare for the ages..."

[@Latronibus]

I like the basic idea of what FF7 Remake is trying to do as a meta-commentary on the spectrum from asset-only remasters to canon-shattering reboots. But I think it revealed its hand too early with the ending of the first part of what is presumably going to be a trilogy. The problem is basically that it's now telling a story that is so much higher stakes than the original that any elements it decides to borrow from the original in the future will inevitably feel like they were forced in. Additionally, although the commentary given in the first part is interesting, in retrospect it didn't need to be attached to an FF7 remake specifically rather than some other remake. There are some vague *spoilers* in the following paragraph, which is elaborating on the previous sentence. Any story with an antagonist reaching for godhood (which is extremely common in JRPGs) would have worked for this concept. The protagonist suffering from delusions as Cloud does helps, since it allows the developers to play with the idea that he might be losing his mind rather than just seeing the strange new reality. A protagonist with delusions is a lot less common, and FF7R does play with it, but it is not really necessary to make the concept work. Maybe they'll pull something off, but my general impression from the first part was that it was basically Nomura getting his Kingdom Hearts energy out in a different setting.

[@TheGprinziv]

I feel the same way and, honestly, I would have been much happier if they had just said "f*ck it" and committed to telling a different story instead of trying to have it fight with a bunch of random ghosts as some sort of meta-commentary while also justifying a spectacle of a final chapter. From a storytelling perspective it feels.... cheap? The stakes feel arbitrarily raised and the story to that point was doing *such a good job*. Having Jesse survive because things played out differently? Great! Having the ghost intrusion feels like it robs rhe characters of a lot of agency. I dunno, I just have problems with it because I think it'd have been a complete story without "fate ghosts" and they could have done a more interesting job playing up Cloud's potential insanity going into the sequel. Edit: it also doesn't really feel like it's some sort of deep meta-commentary abkut the nature of remakes, either. I genuinely don't believe they have the talent for that. I think they absolutely thought purists would attack changes to the narrative (and were right about that) but I think the ghosts were more an attempt at justification than depth.

[@Latronibus]

@@TheGprinziv Yeah, what I said is the generous interpretation of the significance of the Whispers. The less generous interpretation is that they are a representation of the purist old school fans, inserted in to keep things on the rails...and then explicitly made into the enemy.

[@leflamewolf]

4:18 Matt talking out loud while suppose to sneak around is scaring me

[@acmiguens]

I don't see the terms reboot, remaster, remake and reimagining in the same light, but I can see your points.

[@RorikH]

I mean, isn't that they're different the whole point of the video?

[@acmiguens]

@@RorikH Not that they are different amongst themselves, but that I see those definitions differently from the way explained in the video

[@RorikH]

@@acmiguens Yeah, their definitions were a little odd. I'd say remaster = graphics change, remake = graphics and gameplay, with varying levels of drasticness, reboot = continuity reset. Some games toe the line between remaster and remake when they tweak the gameplay a little without seriously altering it, like Wind Waker HD adding some convenience items and fixing up one or two annoying quests.

[@GooGoo491]

I love the sponsor pitch today. Problem I already have ting

[@BillAngelos]

I've only ever played FF the original on the old NES. Such an epic game that I played for most of a year trying new things out even after I'd beaten the game. Love the original FF ringtone before the ad started.

[@jimluebke3869]

The newest Kunark expansions for Everquest made the sarnaks somehow look exactly the same as you remember them looking, except the way they looked in 2000 was about what you'd expect 2000 graphics to look like. It was kind of cool.

[@dolebiscuit]

I don't care to classify it. I'm just thrilled that a game I know and love was able to surprise me while still feeling authentically Final Fantasy VII, with a mild seasoning of Kingdom Hearts there at the end. I'm excited to see where this story goes.

[@pjohososanta]

ah yes, perfect example of innovations by pokemon games, add a friend to travel with you. thats enough innovations for 20 years

[@lucaskitamura614]

The example was quite bad, but the point still stands. Pokémon is a pretty consistent franchise - gameplay has not changed much over the last 20 years. However, I cannot imagine introducing a kid to Pokémon Yellow. It's the best they could do at the time, but it simply does not stand the test of time. Even if they did a "remaster", it would still be a sort of "grindy" game, with unbalanced typing and clunky AI. Pokémon Let's Go, for all its flaws, allows new (and old) players to experience (mostly) the same story with the modern mechanics and QoL improvements that range from new typing and moves to being able to use the box out in the field.

[@kryzethx]

I like this definition of all the re-types of games. It also explains why people are so annoyed that the new Sinnoh games are closer to the "remaster" side than the "remake" side (at least, visually speaking)

[@AjarTadpole7202]

Wait, there's a difference between Reboots Remasters and Remakes? This feels like rediscovering the difference between homicide murder and manslaughter

[@XaviusNight]

I think the best way to look at it is like a NewGame+ It's a NewStory+ The whole thing you know... with things you hadn't gotten before.

[@MAlanThomasII]

My gut reaction to your description was that a work that requires having experienced a prior one and is in dialog with it is a sequel or side-story. Or possibly a "what if." (And AU versions of these things are all still them.)

[@Mikebumpful]

Rob is the best narrator on all of KZbin, fight me. I’d pay to have him read my shopping list!

[@ShreddySteve]

That sound of Mr X's footsteps, my heart rate just jumped up on hearing it!

[@MasteroftheZ]

I've never actually played the game myself, but from what I understand I think you could make a case for classify Final Fantasy 7 Remake as a Parody. I know that word is normally associated with humor and making fun of the original work, but I think we can disconnect that association. To paraphrase Linda Hutcheon (cause I can't find my copy of 'A Theory of Parody' so I'm going off of memory), parody as a genre inherently refers back to previous works directly (if a person does not recognize a reference then it is no longer parody) to derive meaning be that a commentary of the original work (which can make it more fall in line with Satire) or as commentary for something else. I might have to reread Hutcheon's work, but parody seems like a solid classification of the FF7 Remake

[@Endarire]

FFVII remake is more of a reinterpretation of the facts, premise, and story from FFVII. It uses the original elements as a base to tell a different story in a similar enough world.

[@sor3999]

So a reboot.

[@ilkiya8028]

@@sor3999 but its acknowledge not in easter egg way the original plot so it also a sequel

[@kennyholmes5196]

I feel like Final Fantasy 7 Remake isn't a genuine remake, but rather a new type of Game Update known as a Semireboot. A Semireboot is a subtype of a Reboot that re-examines a game and asks "what would happen if X changed?", turning from what appears to be a Remake into a genuine Reboot at the point where they . A Remaster is, as you said, a simple improve-graphics-and-port-forwards of an older game. A genuine Remake is a remaster that also alters mechanics and occasionally fleshing out the world by touching minor details and altering side stories to the main one, but does not touch the main narrative at all. the only one that touches the major beats of the story are Reboots, and by extension, Semireboots.

[@finnle5432]

There's remakes, remasters, reboots an re-TERRIBLE IDEAS. FfviiR broke my heart. I didn't trust it at first, but I ended up opening myself to it once I started living the exquisitely realised Midgard, just to be betrayed at the end. I'm not sure I want to play the second part now.

[@Viceroy_Sundercles_III]

Just tune it out. I hated VIIR too and I’m just not going to pay attention to any of the rest of it going forward.

[@telltellyn]

Part 2 could screw it up but it's not screwed up yet. Imo we should wait and see what they actually do before freaking out that they're doing it.

[@charliefarmer4365]

Who else wants a series on Elizabeth I of England? She was the third official Queen of England, and the second to actually get crowned. Even before she became Queen she survived things like rivals and imprisonment, and after her coronation saved England, but ruled through fear. Much like her father, she had a short temper and a busy excecutioner

[@forevermasteri4330]

"Dungeon Defenders: Awakened" is another game that I think challenges what a remake can be. It's technically a sequel to Dungeon Defenders II, but the game presents itself as a DD1 remake. As it currently stands (before its Episode 1 content update releases), almost all of the maps, enemies and music tracks in DDA are from DD1 with minor adjustments, excluding visual and instrumental updates. The game's five heroes and all of their defenses come from the OG Dungeon Defenders too and have similar behaviors. However, the mechanical and content differences between DDA and DD1 (the PC/Steam version specifically) justifies playing one of these 3D action-defense titles over the other. Awakened has a "Rifted" gameplay toggle, a difficulty level above Nightmare that includes a new enemy, the Hero Deck system from DD2 to more easily level-up multiple heroes at once and a better inventory UI system. DD1 on Steam though, the Redux conversion especially... has way more content and a plethora of inner mechanics that do not belong in Awakened. The game's full package often goes on-sale for 75% off, down to a price lower than DDA.

[@Shinymouse]

4:57 - Hold on a minute - That thing is in Terraria!

[@TenyoS]

I'd call FF7R an Alternate Universe Sequel. Depending on your knowledge of the original like that is very much a sequel thing.

[@benedict6962]

I think it would have pushed a lot fewer of my buttons if they weren't so obvious about the "haha you thought it was going to follow the normal story neener neener", but I think the flavor of discontent from fans who wanted things exactly the same wouldn't be quite as blunted as it is now.

[@phodon129]

It's called a Rebuild. Evangelion has been doing it for a decade now, and it's super interesting.

[@GcorpCoPrez]

Are they still rebuilding that series? I dropped out after the 2 movie, read a few of the mangas where there was no evas.

[@Viceroy_Sundercles_III]

The fourth and final one just came out in Japan. I like the Rebuild waaaaaaay more than VIIR.

[@dink7458]

1:56 Actually it was Saber and 343. Bungie had already left.

[@DanManginelli]

First of all, loved the video! About what FF7Remake is, I belive the best definition would be a sequel but pretending to be a remake, such as the first 3/4 of the game you can enjoy as if it was a remake no problem, with just a little hints of something more, and then the revelation of what really is going on blows your mind and puts the player in the right mindset to the next iteration, which is a full out sequel of the game and the universe (with probabily hints of a reboot, but since one of the prerequisites of a reboot is the restart the franchise, don't belive it can be called as such)

[@Tyrranis]

I've already learnt not to auto-categorize retellings of games based on what's in the title. After all, Command & Conquer: Remastered Collection may call itself a remaster, but honestly enough QoL improvements and new features have been added to it that it qualifies as a remake to me.

[@mohammadalfattal2902]

After the original 7 there was a compilation of games, anime, movie and multiple additions through ultamania books The remake is taking the best moments and stories from the compilation, and retells the og with these additions in aim to refine the story to the maximum and answer any questions left from the compilation and give us the final ending of the ff 7 universe as a whole

[@supremefankai5480]

FF7R is a straight up sequel, it requires you to know about the previous games to understand the plot and Sepheroth is clearly using that knowledge to mess with the plot. It's like an in universe remake instead of the game itself.

[@GcorpCoPrez]

I should playthrough the og game before the remake. It made sense though. I’m currently on chpt 9. I already get the feeling aerith, and heck even cloud, sorta feel deja vu in some scenes.

[@thegearknob7161]

I agree. Just about everything in FF7R is a callback to FF7, and many things are shown in strange order, often before they've occurred. I can imagine to a new player it comes across as very poorly written. Sephiroth for instance appears many times, and we know he is bad because Cloud wants him dead, but we don't know why he is so bad yet, so he seems kind of flat. The original handled it in the complete opposite way. We see why sephiroth is terrible before he ever gets to open his mouth. Kitase (i think), said it was because people all know who he is now, so they needn't bother doing that again. Which is true only for people who played FF7. Otherwise, It reminds me of Metal Gear Solid 2. The events of MGS2 were essentially a deliberate recreation of MGS1 (and eventually you're told as much), until it wildly diverges. Which like FF7R, was done to make a point. You're not going to pick up on that so much if you haven't played MGS1. The main difference is MGS2 was actually sold as a sequel and it's (relevant here) point is about sequels, while FF7R was sold as a remake and it's point is about remakes. Both products of their time.

[@youngdata7585]

Can we get a video on the history on the rise of auto-battler games as well as their pros and cons? Been watching this channel for years and finally feel like I have a question worth asking lol

[@originalityize]

I know y'all got a lot of flak for the *evil races in games* video, but you're still one of the best game dev with etcetera

[@Jimera0]

@3:21 I didn't know this image of Jigglypuff was what I needed this morning but apparently it was.

[@bradcook1537]

Spoilers I always saw it more as a "Groundhog Day" styled sequel. It calls back references to Advent Children and somehow implies that both Sephiroth and Aerith managed to have their spirit time travel to change the story. Thus why "Fate" tries to fight the changes to the Past, both in the forms of the "ghosts" and the literal fight against Fate.

[@kryptoknightmk1]

Spoilers as well obviously. . . . . I got more the impression that it is parallel worlds/alternate timelines. Its not so much that their spirits time traveled but that communing with the Lifestream has afforded them glimpses into other timelines, including the original.

[@telltellyn]

It doesn't require time travel or AC Sephiroth, the Lifestream just gives them visions of the future, that explains everything and we already know that happens from the original game. Aerith doesn't know everything, not even close.

[@ThatDudePlatina]

Spoiler for FF7:Remake btw - I’m still hesitant to believe FF7:Remake is asking us any of this. It seems so happy to be a huge nostalgia blast for the whole game, showing slight hints that things are a miss, and then believes itself so smart when it makes it all about fighting against “destiny” and stopping the literal Arbiter of Fate. Considering how lazy of a story device the Whispers were, the whole game loses any tension cause the characters are literally not allowed to die. There is also the worry this is all just to save Aeirth from death. I am certainly finding myself musing on this game more often then I ever expected, I enjoyed it to a fault, but there are a lot of issues that need quite a bit of work. This isn’t even to mention the combat. >.>

[@telltellyn]

I don't understand calling the Whispers "lazy writing" when they could have just not done it and had an easier job. You can't call something lazy when it literally only adds more effort required. I'm worried about it being used to save Aerith too, but I think the most likely scenario is that they'll make us THINK they're changing it only to break our hearts again. Also IMO, best RPG combat ever, easily the best in the series.

[@ThatDudePlatina]

@@telltellyn So, for my point of the whispers being lazy writing. I find it lazy because it is the least amount of effort, I think, you can put into explaining how/why you are rewriting the story. It is the most on the nose sort of writing, and it is extremely over used by SE. It is barely a step above killing off a character, and then immediately bringing them back, making the shock you had from the deviation of the story now be cheapened cause it was a lie. To continue, and try to be less wordy on this, they seeded a lot of interesting hints that things were amiss. I found quite a bit of them interesting, but to find out the reason the whispers are literally there is just the for the writers of the story writing in their own justification to not allow the story to be deviated from. And then to instantly have your characters destroy it, to allow it to open up a new story. Like, Yoshua, there were so many more in lore-logic ways to do this... I do hope they do make it as you said. Having the rug pulled under from us like that would be neat, but then I would be left asking, "Why then?". Like with stabbing Barette, what was the point when you revealed it was a lie? Why put all that wasted time, effort, and resources into something like the whispers for example from before, if they are just nothing? It's like a lazy jump scare. Not a good jump scare mind you, not one that makes you sit at the edge of your seat in anticipation - guessing at if it'll happen, and for what reason. It is more, to me, a bad jump scare that was thrown out with loud noises and pretty graphics without a thought to what it means or could mean to the story. This is certainly not to say I couldn't be totally wrong on this, and like in a decade be on Agedlikemilk - and I would own that :D It's awesome to be wrong in something like this, I would say. Now, as for the combat. You aren't wrong that it is the best in the series. That is, if you are only meaning like; 15,14,13, and with a focus on the more action combat. If you find them fun, and the pinnacle of combat in the series, I'm not here to try and yell at you for that :) (like I'm sure you aren't for me) Just, FF7:RE's combat is good, if you narrow it to those games. Like, 15 was so, wrong. The best way to show you is to watch the video from SuperEyePatchWolf (just skip to where he shows this if you need to see it and not just take my word for it) where you can literally beat the hardest "secret" boss in the game at the base level you find him. This usually being recommended to be done at max level. Now this may make you want to say, but skill is a factor, and you would totally right. Sadly, this is where the rest of what happens comes into play. You can just hold attack (Square for now) and you will beat it just from attrition.You don't have to do anything else, just hold that one button. The game will heal you up on its own, as the death state in that game was a joke. I always likened FF15s combat to this, "They attempt to go for a realistic Kingdom Hearts combat system, but somehow made it more simple than Dynasty Warriors 2. This being headed by the same man that made the KH series." FF7:RE does have much better combat than FF15. It is a slightly evolved version of it. It gets the you to finish line, sure. It looks super pretty, can look really cool, but it really isn't that complicated as the player. To, again, put into context real quick, I don't think it needs to be like Ninja Gaiden meets Total Empire complex (using extremes to quickly get my point across I hope >.