F-Body Torque Arm Drag Racing

[@chaseoes]

You just don't get this kind of quality educational content on KZbin and it's definitely under appreciated. Keep going man

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

chaseoes thanks so much for your comments! Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!

[@flybye70ss]

Just found this and you explained exactly what moving up and down with the rear adjustable control arm points does. Thank you.

[@mikesauer7775]

Thanks for sharing great technical knowledge. Difference from running 11's to 10's is $10,000. And maintenance goes up exponentially

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Mike Sauer thanks so much for your comments! Definitely not a cheap sport for sure. Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@AbayObey]

I have been studying my 2000 ws6 for overa year to nail down this information you provided. Big thanks to you brother!

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Allen Davison thanks so much for your comments and you are welcomed! Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@lewisfoltz6306]

At the end of the day this is a great video full of useful information.

[@Kincentc]

well presented. always found it interesting that the only way to change the IC length on a torque arm setup is to change the length of the torque arm itself... while that is limiting compared to a 4 link, it does allow you to focus on IC height with the lower bars and your shock settings..... less is more sometimes.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Kincent Carter thanks so much for your comments! Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!

[@kennyarbogast5572]

Hey bro. I see you tryin to make a turg gen fast too🤣🤣💪💪

[@TheDevin918]

At 12:30 did I understand that right the lower you mount your tq arm to the chassis will add bite? I always thought it was opposite?

[@biggpoppaz28]

Wish I could have you help me set my 4th gen camaro suspension up.

[@bighamz28]

Thanks for the video!!! I understood more in this video than what I have read in years

[@kzfire552]

Thank you for all this info. My car is a totally different car now.

[@bernieoch6099]

Just be be certain, if the front of the torque arm is lowered it will increase the bite, and if raised, takes away bite? I have 4 mounting holes and it is in the bottom on a car we just purchased. The lower control arms are at the correct angle according to your video. Thank you for putting out good information.

[@god1st.530]

Since 15 age own 7 3-5thgen my 2000 z28 Camaro grudge stock suspension car. I have a umi.Body mount drive shaft loop. This video helps couse I was confused on how to say pion for hooking. Thanks an please bring more 4 gen F body Ls1 videos.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

John Salary thanks so much for your comments! Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@loloforge2841]

Great job Kevo!! Thx, I actually just put one on my mustang! And wow! It’s different how the car drives.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Lolo Forge thanks so much for your comments! Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@loloforge2841]

Kevin, When I did my Pinion angle setting (when did my TA installation) I used the Tremec app, which you can use with the iphone (or smart phone). I takes into account Crank pulley, driveshaft and diff angles reference. cool stuff. It works with all three angles. Just wanted to offer that idea. I'm sure you have many other ways to set that as well.

[@donovanvondracek6758]

thnx 4 ur work have built 383 4 gen only thing needed is a 12 bolt rear. ware r u located

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Donovan Vondracek thanks so much for your comments! Charleston, SC. Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@67cudaksa34]

at what level would you start modding the suspension?

[@tima2477]

Wow. Thank you again for sharing your knowledge. Love these videos!!

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Tim A thanks so much for your comments and encouragement! I want to help everyday racers feel more comfortable with understanding these subjects. Even if at times we don't all agree, it still makes us think through our cars and the changes to improve. Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!

[@mavsformulaful]

Is there controversy on instant center? I thought it was the (imaginary) intersection point of your lower and upper control arms (2nd being the straight, top bar on a torque arm)?

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Nicholas Lee thanks so much for your question! There are a couple line of thoughts on the torque arms and LCA's. I cover my thoughts in the video, but not all agree. Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@jlo532]

Moving the front of the torque arm down and lowering lower control arm down on the rear end side adds bite? Making sure I understood that right, Thanks.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Jimmy Lopez thanks so much for your questions! It depends on the car's Anti Squat line and how these mount points fall along that spectrum. In very general terms, if you lower the rear lower control arm mount point on the rear end and leave other mount points the same, it will increase your Anti Squat percentage. Lowering the torque arm front mount point will actually decrease your Anti Squat percentage in theory. In some of our more serious F-Body torque arm builds we have used a shorter torque arm to help speed up the reaction. Hope this makes sense in general terms. Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!

[@jlo532]

@@KevinWilsonSBC thank you for taking time to respond to my question. You have pretty cool channel here in KZbin. Looking forward to other videos, Thanks again.

[@SOFJackie]

Have you ever do a Moser torque arm system for a C5? Also for 28x10.5r15 c07 you want the control arm more level or point down for less bite right? and pointed up for more bite if running a PBR?

[@Z28PAPI]

Is there a Fbody front suspension video?

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Not in particular.. I do have a couple of videos that discuss the settings we generally shoot for depending on the use case. Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!

[@jubjub905]

I know a lot of guys have gone very fast on a torque arm setup and some say its a great platform to use, but for an all out drag car would I be better off with ladder bars?

[@scottnettellracing35]

Nice job again Kevin. I keep learning new things every video. Well done!!!

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Scott Nettell thanks so much for your comments and continued support of these chalkboard sessions! Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!

[@SamM-qk9xo]

This is awesome info. More please...especially fbody info!!

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Sam M thanks so much for your comments! Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@prestonedmonds4128]

Thanks for the video! Finally someone gives information on the torque arm suspension. I would definitely like to know your thoughts on the instant center on an f-body though.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Preston Edmonds thanks so much for your comments! Here is a good read on f-body and Instant Center: www.speed-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6691 and in my experience I have seen the same results discussed in that forum. The relationship of the intersect point of the torque arm and lower bars are your key factors. Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!

[@stevesutton522]

Thanks ,would like to see you take more about ic

[@god1st.530]

One ? In drag racing it's a word that call separate the rear end to hook. Can a true stock suspensions tq arm car with everything you talked bout can a car like that separate with out having to 4 link it . An thanks for the video. Ps I think a video on stock suspension seperation in drag racing would help an be good.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

John Salary thanks so much for your question! Yes, you can get separation without a 4 link. I will try to get more videos out for sure. Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@god1st.530]

@@KevinWilsonSBC Thanks an I'll sub Gm ls lt FTW.

[@79blackbird1]

Great Video. I'm wondering if the pinion angle adjuster between the bottom rear rod end and the bottom rear torque arm tube on Spohn Torque arm works exactly like your example that rise or lower the front mount. It' just pinion angle adjustment right?

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Ingar Hauge thanks so much for your comments and question! The adjuster in the bottom bar is just to put your pinion angle back. Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!

[@79blackbird1]

@@KevinWilsonSBC And that does the same as to lower or raise the front mount? Or to put it another way: Does raising and lowering the front mount of the torque arm affect anything else than the pinion angle?

[@davidwidick1218]

I’m looking to do all of this great video.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

David Widick thanks so much for your comments! Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@stevie..d..pontiactransamm1215]

ABSOLUTE BEAUTIFUL VIDEO AND CONTENT MY MAN. KEEP UP ALL THE GREAT WORK MY MAN. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE 3RD GEN GM-F-BODIES. I ALSO LOVE MY SBC 400 ENGINE'S.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

STEVIE.D...ENGINE REBUILDING/PERFORMANCE PARTS. thanks so much for your comments and positive feedback of the channel! Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@stevie..d..pontiactransamm1215]

THANK'S MY MAN. I SEE WITH THE 3RD GEN GM-F-BODIES WHERE PEOPLE USE THE FACTORY LCA AND WELD A TOP/BOTTOM BRACKET AND DO THE SAME WITH THE REAREND AND MAKE A LINK SETUP,USING THE LCA TO CONTROL PINION ADJUSTMENTS,LIKE A FRONT SUSPENSION JEEP CHEEROKEE. I HEAR THEY GET POOR IC CONTROL THIS WAY.

[@martygrajeda3457]

Thank you Kevin.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Thanks so much for taking the time to leave your comment! It is my pleasure. Hope others can pick up some info! Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@jeffzabawa2699]

I have all the stuff that you went over and explained. My car is a weekender/ street. What is your recommended pinion angle?

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Jeff Zabawa thanks so much for your comments! On a solid mount F-body I recommend 2.5 - 3 degrees pinion angle. Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@vettster89]

If I send you my hp tuner file, how much is the tune?

[@daleyoung601]

I have a lowered 97 SS street/strip car with a Strange S60 rear all UMI tubular suspension including LCAs, adjustable torque arm that's stock length but mounts to their trans crossmember but not on the tailshaft of the trans. My question is if I'm trying to get the most forward bite with the long torque arm where should I set the front mount? In the lowest point with the LCAs also in the lowest mounting position or move the torque arm front mount one setting up from the lowest setting?

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Thank-you so much for taking the time to leave a comment and for supporting my channel! I don't take your views and support for granted. Not sure of your power levels and gearing and shocks, so at a high level front tq arm mount, higher will help with some, but the stock length tq arm is really neutral. The on the rear LCA is what adds bite. See this Part 2 video that goes into more detail on adding bite to F Body: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKGwoIJ7fJyKmaM Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!! Kevin Wilson KevinWilsonSBC

[@daleyoung601]

@@KevinWilsonSBC thank you soo much, I'm not sure of hp/tq yet as the engine is currently being built but it's an all forged 383, 12.3:1 scr, AFR CNC 210 heads, ported Victor E EFI intake 242/248 .620/.615 110 lsa hr cam, 3.73 gears full weight street car.

[@arthurmoore1524]

Any ideas on duplicating the tourqe arm on the other side? I love 3-link But I've been contemplating how to duplicate the tq arm like a mirror to the other side and both meeting side by side at the 2nd crossmember brace behind the transmission. I think there's enough room to do it, it'd be like 4 link, it might be worth it.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

If I am going to pursue that one, I would likely make other changes on the rear suspension design to go more of a 4 link setup. Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!!

[@arthurmoore1524]

@@KevinWilsonSBC yes I meant duplicate it in a symmetrical way. I'm going out today to do some measuring on mine since I've located a couple fbodys in the local junk yard.

[@WDBRacing]

Any experience with fi tech

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Adam Taylor thanks so much for your comments! No, sorry. Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@norbertestrada8182]

What center of gravity placement should I target for while building my 4th gen stock body with spohn torque arm and bmr frt k member. Has a mild bbc and turbo 400 with ford 9in. Street and strip application. I know there are still more variables. Just looking for starting point.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Norbert Estrada thanks so much for your comments and question! Shoot me an email for specific help on your build. Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@danielburks5746]

Have a torque arm car that wanting to drive right. I’ve added some spring and preload with the anti roll. Can I adjust the LCA to help with read steer?

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Daniel Burks thanks so much for your question! There are many factors to be considered so I need to be careful with these responses without a bunch more info. On a torque arm car you have be very careful with rear steer and not binding the torque arm. You could use the LCA's to put a very small amount of rear steer in it, like an 1/8" at the end of the axles. You will need to make sure the rear end is back centered after you put rear steer in it. I assume no wheelie bars, but if so you could use them to help correct the car also. I would recommend you watch my video on rear steer at kzbin.info/www/bejne/ima7f6uJoq6doMU Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!

[@dannyoaks85]

I know this is a bit of old video, but I've got a question. What are the effects of moving the chassis end of the torque arm up and down on the mount? My car is on ss springs shocks that are destined for the garbage can. I've already got all the umi bars and torque arm on it. I have some new springs and shocks as well as some lca brackets in a cart ready to check out. When I lower the car, I know the pinion angle is going to change, so I'll have to fight that can of worms again. So my question is this... what should I do with the front mount? Move it up towards the floor to maintain what I've got or should I do something else?

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

dannyoaks85 thanks so much for your question! When lowering F Bodies you need to get the TQ arm back up in the chassis closer to the floor board to put bite back in the car. This is a very high level and general comment. Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@dannyoaks85]

@@KevinWilsonSBC hey man thanks for the response. Once all my parts come in and I get them on, I will play with the mount until it works well. At least now I know which general direction to go. Thanks again. Much appreciated.

[@jeffwelpman3067]

Great info,Thanks

[@lestrotter8557]

Looking to do a 9” swap and rear disc as well as coil overs on a 77 camaro.... after a lot of research I’ve decided the gcomp unser torque arm kit from speedway is undoubtedly the cheapest strongest option. This is going to be a dedicated drag car with occasional cruise to work, do you think this kit can be made to work?

[@lestrotter8557]

Appears to have all heim joints with no bushings and mounts is solid mounted from subframe to torque boxes to frame rails

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

I don't have any experience with that torque arm kit. Sorry about that. Go Fast, go straight! Be Safe!

[@John-jr1si]

Can I just use my bolt on LCARBs and weld them on my 9 bolt and still yield the same integrity as weld ons?

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

John thanks so much for your question! You absolutely can do that. We have many go that route and it works great, but we do highly recommend the welding as an additional measure. This video is an example of bolt-ins with welding: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sJa1YYydls-Af8k Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@John-jr1si]

Kevin Wilson My shock mount on my 9 bolt is bent on the driver side axle tube. I can reinstall the shock if I loosen the nut on top of the shock and position it on. I ended up rebuilding the rear end but I don’t think the bent shock mount will do anything detrimental to the suspension geometry of the car, correct? It doesn’t rub the LCA.

[@scottdickerson266]

With increasing the bite of the tires how important is it to stop the chassis Flex do I need subframe connectors by the way I do have T-tops

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Scott Dickerson thanks so much for your comments! Subframe connectors is a must IMO. Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@Phil-rs5wl]

I'm building a 3rd gen for noprep back of the track type stuff, I just found an old 9inch in my local pull-a-part for 100bucks I'm buying it this week. Question is would I be better off sticking with stock style suspension and try to find a bracket kit for that or would I be better off making it a 4 link setup?

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Phil thanks so much for your comments! I would memic the mustang unequal length 4 link setup. I would not triangulated, but I would do unequal length. Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@thomaswilliams3751]

I bought a 4th gen and cant figure out what is clunking I replaced almost everything

[@jesusmarquez7887]

My car is doing the same. Ended up being the torque arm bushing.

[@chrislynn2076]

Do you feel you get more reaction to bite from adjusting the control arm or the torque arm?

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Chris Lynn thanks so much for your question! In my experience, I can impact the bite with the lower control arm quicker and use the shocks and springs to keep control of impact. Understanding each car's Anti Squat line will dictate these changes though. Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!

[@chrislynn2076]

@@KevinWilsonSBC thankyou for your quick and helpful responses!

[@boostedthirdgenracing]

On my F body I have a hooker transmission cross member with a torque arm mount that is it adjustable are you send to get a different Torque arm mount

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Joe & Denise thanks so much for your question! I apologize, but I am not sure I am understanding your question. Might be best for your to shoot me an email from my website listed in the description (samsonperformance.com) and include some pics would be great! Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!

[@boostedthirdgenracing]

My fbody torque arm mount is on the hooker transmission cross member that is adjustable do I need to get a different torque on mount or can I keep using the one I have ?

[@DiscoGreen]

Thanks for the vids brother! Learning more everyday.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Sean Texsean thanks so much for your comments and glad you are learning! Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!

[@tyler6602]

I found out through my stepdads 2000z28 that the torque arm bushing being blown out makes it launch great 😂

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Tyler 660 thanks so much for your comments! That made me LOL... Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@jeepramz]

Great video. How does the setup change from prep to no prep and slicks to radials

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

jeepramz thanks so much for your question! For a radial you are trying to get as much rear separation as needed to keep the radial planted. So based on your cars Anti Squat line, the more positive anti squat value generally the more you plant the radial. I would recommend you watch my video kzbin.info/www/bejne/pIaXgYuNnJd3nZo that covers this in more details. Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!

[@mavsformulaful]

Amen, i ask so many people buying torque arms and control arms, where are your LCARBs? That 60$ bracket should've been on your car before that 500$ order..

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Nicholas Lee thanks so much for your comments! 100% spot on!!!! Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@Chickenfam_LSX]

Can’t thank you enough for the info, great stuff 👍👍

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

VTCWS6 thanks so much for your comments and support! Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!

[@nsboost]

Great video! My thinking Draw a vertical line at the front TA mount. Instant center is where the imaginary line front the LCA intersects with that vertical line. The front TA mount doesn’t change that much of anything with the IC. It is useful though if your can’t easily get your pinion angle adjusted with the adjusters. Your biggest changes to your AS % is the length of the TA and ride height/lca angle. No TA is solid mounted. None that are commercially available that I’m aware of. Even my madman that has a “solid mount” has a slide built into the arm. Others use a pivoting style mount. That kind of fore/aft movement is needed or the suspension binds.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

nsboost thanks so much for your comments! Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@shrigzyshrigzy556]

Do y ou still reply on ur videos?

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

I do, but September to December I was not able to do much replying. But now I am able to. For detailed assistance please visit my website at samsonperformance.com and shoot me an email or check out the services offered. Thanks! Go fast, go straight! Be SAFE!!

[@seanellis9132]

Good video !

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Sean Ellis thanks so much for your comments! Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@maldo72]

Great content... keep it coming

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

maldo72 thanks so much for your comments! Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@dezieak47]

Awesome info

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

D.A.M.K thanks so much for your comments and encouragement! Go fast, go straight! Stay Safe!

[@timgroleau1612]

Awesome info.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Tim Groleau thanks so much for your comments! Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@jeffyoung2089]

👍👍Thanks!!

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

jeff young thanks so much for your comments! Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!

[@dirtysouthstreetcars9007]

First I would like to Thank You for all the great content! Keep up the great work! Could you do a more in depth video on setting up a f-body like how to find the instant center, how to select the right coilovers and springs, and how to adjust rear suspension for radial and slicks.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Dirty South STREETCARS thanks so much for your comments and question! I will get that added to my todo list. Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!

[@jasonbirch1182]

Lower center of gravity is not helping you accelerate in any way shape or form. It actually decreases usefull weigh transfer. Only increasing antisquat will return a lowered car to where it was with a higher center or gravity.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

jason birch thanks so much for your comments! My comment was centered around a lower center gravity gives you more ability to add more anti squat. In the video I said with a lower center of gravity you have a better ability to launch a car, implying I can more easily increase anti squat. Center of gravity height most certainly impacts how the Instant Center hits the rear and planting the tires. Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@jasonbirch1182]

@@KevinWilsonSBC unless you are making enough power to wheelstand lowering your car is not helping you launch.

[@gregsmith9457]

👍👍👍

[@jaimeestrada4507]

What spring rate and size would you use on an fbody? Low 9 sec car on a radial.

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Jaime Estrada thanks so much for your question! What are your 4 corner scale weights? Shoot me an email with weights and more about your fbody and I can give you better recommendations. Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@jaimeestrada4507]

@@KevinWilsonSBC thank you for your time! I probably commented before I should have..I recently found this channel and had not watched your other videos. So much good info! It makes more sense after watching the other videos however i will definitely send you a message if I can't figure it out from the videos!

[@justdale1966]

Wow I am going to go on a diet so I can save more money to buy those parts

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Dale Chirstopher thanks so much for your comments! Definitely not a cheap process. Go fast, go straight! Be Safe!!

[@anthonyakers6374]

Anyone a fan of UMI?

[@kelseywade4033]

You need a tip jar!

[@KevinWilsonSBC]

Thanks!! Checkout my vinyl stickers as a way to support the videos: www.samsonperformance.com/store/p9/donate3.html