F for My WoW Guild

[@Steelersince89]

They survived bfa but died in shadowlands. You hate to see it.

[@thicnos3196]

Which is strange because shadowlands is just a slightly less shit version of bfa which was a slightly more shit version of legion.

[@harbhub]

Keep stretching a rubber band and eventually it snaps.

[@thicnos3196]

@@harbhub true. And less stretch is required if most of the stretch it can take has already been done. Bfa and wod did 9/10ths of the stretching, shadowlands seems to have just stretched it that last tenth

[@Steelersince89]

@@thicnos3196 yeahhhh no bfa was way worse especially season 1 comparisons. The azerite system bricked the entire 1st tier and corruption derailed the xpac entirely. Even with legion the beginning was completely garbage. A lot of players quit legion before it got good. At the end of the day it's still wow, and a lot of people, like preach said, will leave the game for various reasons from time to time.

[@jong.7944]

Doesn't surprise me. After enduring something as bad as BFA, a lot of players have a lot less tolerance for anything sub-par. I remember one of the best guilds I was ever in survived and even thrived for all of WoD and even the content drought (and for years before that) but fell apart quickly in Legion - even though Legion was obviously much better than WoD with a lot dumb (temporary) issues over being alt-spec unfriendly, legendaries, "garrisons 2.0", etc. etc.

[@WatersmithTV]

I can't believe Preach made a blood sacrifice using his entire guild in order to get his hair back

[@Fr0zenP3nguin]

needs to sacrifice a few more guilds...

[@TheAlijator]

One of his guildies survived, carrying the brand of sacrifice and straggling through the Shadowlands.

[@65MaX73]

@@TheAlijator He left one alive to tell the tales

[@Xynth22]

Preach should write this up as a story and read it on Drama Time for a goof.

[@kastupido]

This

[@oneevilchef]

Seems like "8 years in Azeroth" Check blogspot for the story, the drama is hilarious

[@s.t.5993]

Yes !

[@dirtylevel]

He used to do Story Time, which was what got me into Drama Time, funnily enough

[@mazztothemax1888]

I’m finding that because the skill of players is rising so dramatically to make bosses hard enough to challenge people they end up just introducing frustrating mechanics. Frustrating mechanics and long fights are not fun.

[@GodlessArtist]

Amen. Fights are way too long with too many intermissions. Give us a challenge, but don't make it so long that we only get 10 pulls in. If you have 1 person each pull that makes a mistake, like, not a bad player but an honest mistake, there's 20 pulls. We always ran out of time due to people catching a bad rng mechanic, ruining the pull, and then having to reset. Really sucks when its deep phase 3 on sire or something, everyone just gets demoralized after that and ppl start being toxic.

[@Varichan]

Problem is, that the devs really dont play their own game. There is just no other explanation how bosses like G'huun M or KJ M or Ejonar in general have gotten greenlit otherwise. Or Lets not just take KJ M, but the entirety of the tomb with all its bullshit instant raid-wipe mechanics. It was just plain frustrating and annoying. Hurr durr somebody lagged? Well, have a wipe for that! Youre a small mythic guild, barely getting 20 people together, yet those people are good enough to clear the content? Here, have a boss, that requires 4 warlocks to be decently playable!

[@Moffattt]

i for once in my life completed and enjoyed the raid tier (pugged it, although only finished normal, i stopped playing halfway through heroic cuz the game just got boring) and i didnt find any fights all that bad. it was a fucking pain to take down the dancing assholes and hungering destroyer (although hungering was hard because of lack of good dps and stupidity) mostly downed boss after boss on the first 3 attempts. sire was a cool bossfight that is easy once you played through it once but when you rea up on it he gives you a bible worth of text but it aint all that much to keep track of. cant say if all this changes in heroic/mythic but im gonna assume a good amount of bosses gets annoying af on heroic and up

[@Moffattt]

@FoorTwelfthDee i never compared them. all i said is that the raid could get annoying on higher difficulties, heroic or mythic.

[@RawreyG]

Experienced this with Mythic Council, when we killed it I think my guild was feeling more relieved than excited. First 9 minutes are whatever, then the last 30 seconds are, you sneeze and the group wipes. Rekills are going to be fun.

[@kamuimac]

2 days ago "game is super healthy " today - "my guild is dead"

[@UltimateGamerCC]

the game is healthy, it's just players are burning out, at least until the next big patch comes, then a lot of those players will be refreshed from their break to see what new challenges await them.

[@NoContextOasis]

@@UltimateGamerCC There is nothing to do atm

[@KumaNicol]

@@UltimateGamerCC The game cannot technically be healthy, but also be burning tons of people out simultaneously. That just doesn't match up. There's tons of people burning out not just his guild, game's def not healthy atm.

[@UltimateGamerCC]

@@NoContextOasis play old content? alt? i think you guys are tripping balls on the "nothing to do" bit.

[@ValtheJean]

@@UltimateGamerCC If people are burning out on the content, then the game isn't healthy. It's not healthy for an MMO for people to burn out on playing it.

[@SirSnoozebutton]

Sorry to hear that, Preach. Your guild is sadly not alone in this. The amount of people on my friends list who are logged in to play WoW is shrinking every week. At a glance Shadowlands was looking great, but I were to make a list of the pros and cons of changes from BfA the list of cons win by a landslide. We are only now seeing slight tuning changes every 2-3 weeks and a lot of this is Blizzard finally listening to ignored feedback from the alpha and beta. Main reasons for people quitting: -Content in general is unrewarding outside of weekly vault -Torghast is boring -The Maw is Boring -Feeling forced to do PvP for gear progress -Mythic+ end of dungeon giving worthless loot -Raiding barely giving loot -Dungeons are pretty boring - i.e most of them are linear like Kings Rest in BfA, leaving almost no room to play different routes. -New affixes are only frustrating. Not fun. -AoE cap is boring, and feels very bad. -Their spec is really far behind the fotm -Tanks not being able to actuall tank, but instead having to run away from everything. -Not picking your favorite Covenant choice based on cosmetic/aesthetic reasons, but feeling "forced" to pick BiS (this was also proven in the data in one of your recent videos). -Different Covenants being BiS for different specs for the same class -Nothing meaningful to work towards on your own. I don't care about grinding anima to upgrade my sanctum. Seems to me that the only community that is kinda happy for the most part are PvPers because of the vendors and a more fast paced meta.

[@jamestomlin5525]

Them gutting m+ and outlaw is what did it for me, cheers for those of you still hanging on

[@farinerawesome9875]

And it’s impossible to change covenant after you chose one.

[@derbadin]

@@jamestomlin5525 you summarized it perfectly

[@maximschlee4605]

@@farinerawesome9875 well i changed my covenant last week when it was renown 26. It took me 2 whole days to catch up to the current level.

[@harbhub]

"Different Covenants being BiS for different specs for the same class." That's insane to me. I played original WoW up to level 58 then quit. I returned years later to play Legion starting at 7.3 which was decent, but had some glaring issues even in its peak state. I watched the Blizzard show where they announced the next expansion. I had so much anticipation, but then they said "Battle for Azeroth" and I instantly quit because that was the most uninspired theme imaginable; it's literally not a theme and came across as the "We ran out of ideas" expansion. I watched from the sidelines as the WoW community got decimated by BFA throughout the entirety of its lifecycle. Similarly, I've followed the Shadowlands coverage and expected this clusterfuck to ensue. Rushed release, not listening to player feedback during beta, forcing problematic systems into the game because reasons, slowly ruining the hype of Torghast with each change they made to it, and so on. For every step forward they took (removing the absurd Titanforging loot system), there was another step backwards (finding new ways to make loot acquisition an unrewarding nightmare).

[@jordon_9333]

F - Sorry to hear about the guild, really sucks, great bunch of guys

[@Zoltri]

With all that said, I think if you're actively running a roster with more then 20 players, it would be a nice gesture to atleast do one final week to make sure everyone gets their cutting edge and can feel completed with the tier before ending the guild.

[@mydogeatspuke]

Unfortunately the majority of WoW players have no interest in helping those who helped them. It attracts very selfish people. It would be a great single player game.

[@RK-gv7rc]

@@mydogeatspuke fuck this is so true. Even back in BC, i knew a legit core MT that just quite after they killed KJ. no one else could do shit after that guy had all the gear LOL

[@BrodyCanuck]

@@mydogeatspuke True, a lot of people use this game to stroke their egos. Tons of egotistical people playing it since its the perfect playground for them to shit on people even if they're not skilled at the game.

[@pizzaki582]

@@mydogeatspuke Reason i stopped, No one gives a fuck. all that's left are rusted on player's with nothing else to do.

[@ericwood3709]

more than

[@hmmhmm3452]

It's interesting, we've had a similar feeling in our guild this tier, with a lot of our raiders and officers being right on the verge of calling it after over half a decade together. I'm sorry it hear that experience is wider reaching, were just another smaller symptom, and I'm sorry you're having to deal with it at such a high level :/

[@strika1140]

People get older and sometimes find they have other demands on their time

[@Craul08]

TLDR: His guild died cos he chose a hunter.

[@ALPHAHXCORE]

cant watch video atm, fatboss guild is dead?

[@TheRexTera]

Repeat after me /Dance /Wave /Gquit

[@mokurt2529]

what?

[@9Hookr9]

I was literally gonna say that lol.

[@ninjaman0003]

@@ALPHAHXCORE don't know if you've been able to watch yet but it can be summed up rather easily. most of the people in the raid team didn't like a lot of the current game (it isn't specified outside of raid content but i suspect plenty of world and class stuff was part of the reason). the moment after sire denathrius was killed, the guild asked if people even cared to keep playing this tier and enough people agreed to call it right on the spot. preach was asked if he minded being sat for denathrius and said he was fine since he would get the kill the following week. preach was mad at first to wake up and find out his guild quit raiding while he was asleep. later, he changed his mind and agreed with what they did.

[@messermoreaux1139]

idk how some wow guild was in my recommendations but sorry to hear this guy

[@SondreGrneng]

I like to think you have never played wow in your life, this showed up in your feed, you watched the whole thing and was like "feels bro, feels"

[@hkr667]

@@SondreGrneng To be honest this whole story really reminded me of being dumped through a text and your whole friends group knows it but you only read it the next day, and you're like meh the relationship wasn't going anywhere but you feel shit anyway that a relationship of 3 years is already fully over and you then start thinking back on the moments you spent together.

[@sunayocarissime5309]

Its always sad when a guild folds up, sometimes though people get burned out sadly. F

[@mentalbreak]

F

[@alvarogonzalez3715]

Raiding felt draining because of the lack of loot

[@Mrvanderspank]

Yeah, some people in our guild has killed like 15 bosses in mythic without any loot

[@ka0snz85]

I just started doin CN Normal after coming back after Cata.. WHERE IS THE LOOT?

[@Visias-Games]

As a Raid Leader I feel both sides, when I was burned out I was asking every officer for a replacement to lead, every single one just looked at ways to not have me burned out because they couldn't think of, or find anyone to take my place.

[@ero9685]

My guild also disbanded this tier part way into mythic. PvP has just been a more enjoyable experience and easier to work in around spending time with my wife and kid. A lot of us were having this same time issue.

[@michaelyun2407]

Lol loot is the biggest issue there is literally no loot in PVE. Is better to farm PVP for gear. People just do their vault and log

[@michaelhouse5276]

Duuude this comment Ezra!! Although I don’t have a wife or kid haha (just friends and gf for me) I’m just so tired of the pve grind having a dedicated schedule and time etc.. really not into it anymore. Switched to pvp and it’s honestly way better and easier for me. I think people should give pvp more of a try. Idk works for me over pve. Just burnt out

[@H41030v3rki110ny0u]

@@michaelhouse5276 Funnily enough, PvP is far more casual friendly than PvE lol... I can log on, do a handful of 2's, and log off satisfied.

[@michaelhouse5276]

@@H41030v3rki110ny0u biiig facts bro!!

[@ndaemon1718]

@@H41030v3rki110ny0u yeah.. i just wish i didnt have thei reaction times of a 103 yearold grandma lol. pvp will nevr be a thing for me.. people bounce around like balls and by the time i realize where m yenemy is at.. they have already shifted position 11 more times and im dead. and i cant afford to buy new mice and keyboard everyday as i would destroy them out of pure rage at dyiong non stop haha :)

[@Xbob42]

"We're playing 1990s Chrono Trigger right now and--" *immediately closes KZbin and goes to twitch vods*

[@TehFiishy]

F's in the chat lads. pouring one out for the homies

[@Retributzen]

F

[@Corarnor]

F

[@ThatGenericCanadian]

F

[@agm1990]

F

[@ominarous]

F

[@stratiss2328]

I'm not enjoying raiding either. I think its due to the lack of reward for it.

[@AnEnragedCat]

Lack of reward and difficult bosses. You're group can spend many hours trying to kill one boss and then 3 people out of 20 get loot lmao, just a dogshit decision that bliz made

[@vinnybuffone6775]

35 Anima all day

[@dailydose1729]

@@vinnybuffone6775 I love getting that sweet sweet 35 anima

[@Nobleshield]

@@AnEnragedCat This. For an "entry level" raid tier its pretty brutal, and not even in a good way since it's just a ton of crap flying around the screen every encounter.

[@mazztothemax1888]

I love getting one conduit drop 😑 for killing 10H bosses and 2M

[@levishaw9345]

Pretty trash they didn't take care of their bench raiders before they disbanded, really pretty trash.

[@MrOPD]

He literally talked about how they had players that they knew were going to quit after the tier. It's not like you can just go in there 1 week later with 10 new people who have never done the place and just willy nilly oneshot the fight. 'Taking care of the bench' would've meant having to recruit new people and basically reprogressing for like another month again to give the achievement to like 2 new people at a time... only to then disband. In which case you people would've given them shit for recruiting people into a dying guild. What they did was the right thing to do for most people. Mike just didn't happen to be one of those people.

[@Pilek01]

@@MrOPD no dude it would only require 1 more raid night for the people who were benched to get them the kill. If someone wanted to quit then ok no problem, but stay 1-2 more weeks to get the kill for the benched players. Quitting after getting the kill yourself and not giving a fuck about the people who you raider with for the last 2 months (or 3 years) is just a dick move and i would not want those people in my guild if i was part of a cutting edge guild. They are a bunch of selfish pricks.

[@crysosisback7115]

@@Pilek01 It all depends wether it was planned for those quitting or not If it's not, they're pricks If it was, then fuck that's how it is We're talking mythic raiding here.

[@mydogeatspuke]

@@Pilek01 100%! It's not reasonable to progress with people and then throw them under the bus once you get what you want. But this game attracts assholes masquerading as downtrodden nice people.

[@22Epic]

@@mydogeatspuke They didn't throw them under the bus. The guild could still exist if someone stepped up to replace the leaving RL. But nobody did as it's way simplier to be a simple member with no responsabilities just loggin to raid. The whole guild is responsible of the disband, every one of them, even Preach.

[@ginosalazar7391]

Will Fin still be around? He’s been an awesome addition!

[@JoshHolden-Aka-evani]

"to ensure everybody got the denathrius kill" poor preach

[@cas6382]

That's actually the part that ticks me off like would it have killed the team to stick together for at least one more reset so everyone got their CE that's so lame

[@razlOO7]

@@cas6382 they might have not rekill the boss with different roster

[@supahfly8067]

I am glad everyone is okay with it but to me, if they knew they were quitting after, asking u to sit out is a dick move, screwing u out of the kill.

[@cas6382]

@@razlOO7 are we really going to delude ourselves that a top 100 guild wouldn't be able to rekill Denathrius with a different roster? It might have taken them a an extra reset or so but lets be real here the rest of the team just couldn't be asked. In the end though it wasn't my guild so it doesn't effect me but it still does seem shitty

[@neildoerdan2298]

Preach - 'I don't mind giving up my spot as I'm tired' (really thinking they will never get kill tonight) Guild - We got kill and we not doing it anymore.

[@isiseungella4688]

I can so relate. Our vanilla guild broke in Cata and we are still in touch. No matter the guild we are in, that is the criteria many of us use about other guilds. It's actually healthy that people take serious breaks and let life decide where they are heading, not "a game/ hobby". This has been a very stressful year for many, SL is so much better than BFA but IRL has many more pressures. Good to see you are giving yourself space for other things and will return to WOW refreshed and renewed. A new adventure will await you. Keep in touch with each of them: connection is more than sharing some pixel-loot.

[@skaels]

This was a very cathartic explanation of how it feels to have your guild split up. I joined a guild in Legion, we were together for about 3 years. The guild split in two, and then eventually even the split broke up. It's hard for me to get the same enjoyment out of the game, new groups just don't feel the same.

[@KrakenLatte]

F’s in chat for sure. I totally know this scenario as the same thing happened to me in the guild I was in during WoD. There was even an agreement to finish HFC mythic before taking breaks before Legion, which is why I was there. But that didn’t happen, the guild physically disbanded overnight, and I never saw any of those players log into the game again. Raiding was never enjoyable after that for me. I loved that guild. Deepest sympathies Preach, hope you can find another good one for the next tier.

[@Stunsnroses]

I think the trash drops from raiding ruined the tier for me. It got to a point to where I was just raiding to do it, then I quit because I couldn't justify the return on gold investment.

[@coolbritt002]

I'm sorry it happened the way it did Preach. You are the reason back in legion that I wanted to try raiding, I had only played casually with my friends up until legion but I wanted to challenge myself and push myself because people in pugs told me I was pretty good. So I left my RL friends guild and tried finding a raiding guild which even now feels daunting as I have been in several that fell apart. I really understand the sadness and salt and hope that the next few days you are able to relax and process. Really incredible self-awareness on your part to admit your feelings and also understand the feelings of others.

[@malifor2210]

As cool as shadowlands is and how excited I was, it's probably one of the most draining I've ever experienced in 12 years. I feel like there's just no goal to work towards and the grind isn't rewarding if there is a grind. I don't get burnout this early if at all since healing keeps me on my toes but... The whole loot situation and lack of an end goal is really tearing me apart.

[@maximschlee4605]

What end goal did you have in previous expansions? All the same things are here: M+, raiding and PvP.

[@sr7olsniper]

Blizzard fucked up the ONLY thing you should not fuck up in a treadmill, the carrot. SL is all stick no carrot and I’m about done.

[@SpookyFaceGaming]

Totally agree with you. The loot, the gimping of m+, Torghast being dull as dishwater with a boring "reward", the anima shit (even tho its not mandatory, it still feels like it) and the amount you have to do on one character each reset to remain relevant was too much for me as well. Sub ran out earlier in January and if Shadowlands keeps going as it is, it won't be renewed. After almost 15 years of ups and downs, this is the expansion that made me quit. Unreal.

[@sr7olsniper]

@@maximschlee4605 yeah but all feel less rewarding for the time commitment. Gearing drought is literally killing SL.

[@r3v3rbs0ul]

@@sr7olsniper I get why people feel that way, but for a lot of us it's about friends and personal accomplishment. Getting loot is just something that happens while we work towards the other things.

[@MarekPar743]

another one bites the dust, F's for Preach Maybe a little Stark Industries 2.0 in the meantime between tiers?

[@krucible9369]

I just don’t feel any motivation to do hard content this expansion. The reward system is probably the worst it’s ever been. I’m just finishing up my covenant storylines throughout my alts and then my sub runs out in 10 days. A break is much needed

[@Brandon-yr3nj]

This. I’m someone who really liked torghast and even the maw, but the lack of concrete rewards has been such a drag

[@Jovahkiiin]

@@Brandon-yr3nj Most of my friends have unsubbed at this point and i loot my vault and do a few weeklies then wonder wtf i'm going to do all week, character progress at this point feels completely dead.

[@MrTincify]

fact that if you're pvping and if you're a glad player, you're miles ahead of a hardcore m+ only player or even raider/m+ player, it's just sad.. :) you're basically forced to pvp and get to 1800 if you want to even do any high keys (speaking above 18+) or to even attempt mythic raid.. :D sad

[@TacynMegan]

@@someguy9970 imagine spensing 12-24 whole hours on mythic raiding and ending up with 35 anima

[@ALPHAHXCORE]

@@Jovahkiiin idk play the game? try to get keystone master or curve or smth?

[@Mscmann]

I had really high expectations for Shadowlands, yet I haven't lost motivation this fast ever before at the beginning of a new expansion. Same with my whole guild that has made an "comeback" for every new expansion... People just lost the will to log in.

[@NoobGamer-di1dw]

It depends still tho cause not every guild is the same I know people who are having more fun than ever the problem is people just think cause it happens to them everyone hates the game and that’s not true at all lots of people still enjoy the game atm

[@KelvinSuddith]

What stinks is that the pressure and stress of raiding this tier, that is breaking guilds apart, is the same as every other tier, but it feels so much worse when nobody feels like their efforts are being rewarded in raiding.

[@cryogenical_]

My guild was almost destroyed when we got to HC donny, our raid leader had basically given up on leading because he didn't want the role anymore and donny without a proper raid lead is horrible. Luckily I was able to pick it up, get the kill and 2 mythic bosses down next week so the guild stayed mostly together, still lost about 4 people in the process though.

[@baronvonwolfin4215]

@@cryogenical_ can relate our guilds raid lead is getting super frustrated when we attempt H Donny. the scary part is we dont have the kill yet

[@malifor2210]

@Ignacio VK Sire Denathrius

[@GodlessArtist]

Yup. Our RL had a breakdown. Everyone criticizing him, but ppl not wanting to put in the time/work to fix the issues he saw. No one wanting to grind the hours for such small rewards. The whole tier is disappointing.

[@evanbunnell]

@@GodlessArtist as a raid leader I feel this so hard right now.

[@Nr4747]

What about the people who sat out for the Denathrius kill ? I would be really annoyed if I had sat out on that one, expecting to get it soon thereafter, only to be told "Just kidding, we disbanded."

[@baronvonwolfin4215]

generally speaking if youre in a guild on the high end CE, the achievement, isnt really what gates you out of guilds. its your performance. plus just saying "we cleared CN" should be enough regardless if they were in on the last kill.

[@rosco3]

Preach is one of them. He wasn't there for the kill. I would sure be annoyed but whatever, it's just a kill. It's not like it would give them anything as it would be a reclear anyway.

[@brezza6892]

@@baronvonwolfin4215 yes but he missed on CE because of selfish people.

[@baronvonwolfin4215]

@@brezza6892 isnt it selfish to then demand people play a game they have no interest in for an achievement? theres two sides to every coin.

[@Amoreyna]

@@baronvonwolfin4215 Not really when he seems to consider them friends, has paid for their travel expenses, invited them into his home, and isn't the one saying he should have been able to get the CE before these guys just totally took off before the boss was even cold on the floor. Friends should help each other and be able to be at least honest about important things that impact each other. I can see some of them being just burned out but hey - say that. Or others staying for a week or two to work on a kill for those that sat out. None of that happened and it seems like no fucks were given to those who helped the team progress by being okay by not being on the team to get the first guild kill. That's where the big problem of all this lies.

[@al44tec]

This expansion burnt me out as well. I'm at the same point of not knowing if I am going to come back. Just too many systems to keep up with and the raids were just not fun. Good luck finding a new guild Mike

[@tegridyfarmer2581]

How?

[@r3v3rbs0ul]

Your content has been so good going into Shadowlands and since it launched. Seemed like you were really enjoying it, or at least felt a lot better about the direction of the game. Sorry to hear you've lost the lads. PS - Chrono Trigger is BIS.

[@andreafonger3638]

First benched, now guild is dead? What a sad week!

[@wight4991]

I mean it's gatedlands what did you expect? 😂 Only 5 specs are on top and that killed the last bit "MMO" in an MMOrpg with 12 classes and about ?38? Ingame specs. That's just wrong..... It's just wrong and goes against anything a game is about

[@jakewright1932]

@@wight4991 I don't remember a WoW tier where there wasn't a handful of specs on top. Maybe MoP? In Classic you're either a warrior, a rogue, or a bad dps. Nothing in this video indicates that players quit the game because their class isn't strong, more than they just weren't enjoying the raid. 36 specs.

[@filipbatora7523]

@@wight4991 Somehow, anything bad in the game is what kills the "MMO", even if it´s something that was even part of Vanilla. Especially in this case, have you ever visited classicwow subreddit or seen any video about Vanilla? Or, you know, played and raided in the game? There are few specs that are gods, many that are meh and some that are entirely unusable. If few specs being on top kills the "MMO", then the "MMO" was never alive to begin with.

[@wight4991]

@@jakewright1932 too bad that i played a hunter on classic and even he was somewhat usefull, alone tranq shot was a must have in raids or his ability to effectively kite mobs around while holding aggro. And still all classes and all specs had something to go for them in prior expansions ie. Buffs for the raid / debuffs on bosses to boost everyone's dmg and or reduce the dmg of bosses / auras (no paladin wasn't the only one that had those). But since bfa-SL everything that made EVERY class unique and usefull got stripped away and only a handfull (the 5 specs that are prominently dominant throughout these expansions) are not just "a tiny bit better" no! They're letting all other specs eat their dirt and even the dirt performs better with less effort than other classes that are playing at maximum potential.

[@kasPWI]

@@jakewright1932 WotLK class viability in PvE is pretty good. All tanks and healers are viable, only really dps shaman is underperforming. Well and the PvP trees like frost mage, survival hunter, sub rogue.

[@Mech1000]

Same sorta happened to the guild I'm in, which sucks, but luckily I still have a group of friends from another guild that I can get invited along during a night I'm not working which helps keep me motivated to stay subscribed.

[@Bozey]

Shadowlands was my last shot at WoW until the foreseeable future, unless they add some type of alternate progression system for soloers so I dont have to raid or m+ then I don't see myself returning. I just don't have the will or patience for group content anymore. I guess my mentality has just changed as I've gotten older.

[@randomnobody660]

Why do you "have to raid or m+" thou? If you aren't going to do either you don't really need that level of gear do you? If you just run around the world doing random things you get the gear to do that very quickly.

[@GamingDualities]

TBC PvP baby is where is at

[@Squishydew]

Same for me, i already felt burned out on the game before but shadowlands was that last hooray hoping the game would draw me in again. It didn't. It'll have to undergo significant changes for me to consider it again.

[@ronholmesuk825]

My guild of many years broke up after Uldir in BFA - I haven't been able to find a steady home since. It just isn't the same - so I get how you feel. People who say WoW is an antisocial game couldn't be more wrong. Trying to enjoy the game without a guild full of piss-taking mates is hard, and I'm still struggling with it. Luckily you're a great player, an awesome bloke and you have every opportunity to find a great new group when you're ready to, and I'm really glad for that. Just spare a thought for those of us who never really seem to get over it because we love you, and Wow, too. Chin up mate.

[@Jitterzz]

Yeah, I know what you mean about unusual mistakes this tier due to things feelings off; as an aside, it feels like there have been a bunch of disconnects and latency issues in raids I’ve been in. I wonder if others have been experiencing the same.

[@janeallan3901]

this is normal...wow has always bin super crusty

[@bluexephosfan970]

Huh, haven't had any latency issues on my end

[@100Predator]

This feeling everyone from your mates that you describe, if the feeling i have about wow in general. Nothing in wow speaks to me anymore. Thorgast is so booring i actually feel depressed playing it. Raiding takes time that i dont have. Rated PvP is so above my skill now that i cant even reach 1400. Im playing a class that cant get into M+ becuase blizzard has designed mythics in such a way it favours more evolved classes. And you can tell most content in wow is there to keep you subscribed. I know thats the way of MMO but the way wow has evovled it becomes so transparant thats why the mechanics are there. I dunno but even the setting of Shadowlands in of itself is depressing. When you die you come to this new world where you are forced into servitude with each of the covenants. Its ofc only my opinions but the overall feeling....Depressing... :/

[@GodlessArtist]

Hey m8. I feel all of that. I was able to get into a good rbg team, and that has been fun. But honestly, ya, I agree with you. I actually downloaded the free FFXIV trial and I've been enjoying the single player/slower pace of that. Also, crafting is so in depth over there it is actually fun.

[@greenfox3010]

Sad to hear! dont take it too personal preach, the fact that they stayed true to their word and stayed for the last kill speaks volumes.

[@ganstaeddie7]

Ya WITHOUT preach lol. they asked him to sit out then killed it and disbanded, its scummy.

[@harbhub]

@@ganstaeddie7 It was always going to be without several players due to raid size. They gave a valid reason for excluding Preach that time.

[@TheGreatestLewis]

I disagree, maybe clear one more time with people on bench but I guess officers didn’t care.

[@cas6382]

I strongly disagree I have no doubts their whole roster put a lot of time and effort in just for some of them to be sat for the kill. I don't think it would have been the end of the world for them to have stayed together for maybe a couple resets max to get everyone their CE for a proper send off.

[@harbhub]

@@cas6382 I was under the impression that they did get everyone their cutting edge achievement prior to that last raid night. You mean that only those 20 players got it and no others? That would be pretty lame.

[@Tigerfiredancer]

Aw :( Sorry to see you are sad, I hope you have lots of good memories that in time will make you smile when you think about your guild.

[@Obsidianen]

This is exactly what happened to my guild back in BfA. We got together into the first raid on opening day, did it as far as we got and 80% of the guild decised to stop playing WoW forever.

[@Siggy152]

Its actually sad to hear the Artificer Video wasn't well received. I hope this is from a views and YT-metric standpoint and not from a "quality of the advice" standpoint. Because this was really an important video with an aspect that many guides didn't talk about and it helped my guilds progress quite a lot. It took a lot of the stress out of those people that have to do that one job and that is a really good thing. Even though not many people watch them i hope this kind of content doesn't get completely neglected. And good Luck to the raiding future Mike, something awesome will come around, i am sure.

[@SCEndbringer]

Preach, alpha/beta tested raid and shadowlands, says its really fun. Also Preach, entire guild G quits and says the game isn't fun.

[@GamerboyAlex]

too be fair the beta raid was significantly different in terms of damage taken from what hit live servers, they said they had a good time with it and expected a relaxing raid tier and so did everyone else from what I remember at the time, then they flipped it on its head by over tuning the raid. That coupled with lack of gear, which you don't "feel" inside of alpha/beta since its usually not implemented and they give you a set item level when you do the encounters.

[@td6460]

Well you have to understand Mike's motivation, especially after Potiongate. He sucks up to Blizz in an attempt for Access. Access is everything and how these corporations control their content creators. Mike said Torghast was great, it turned out to be absolute shit. CN is great, turned out to be absolute shit. Just don't trust these CCs and you're better off. Expect Blizzard's content to be shit, then either be happily surprised or not.

[@ALPHAHXCORE]

@@td6460 how is CN "absolute shit". By tha metric half the raid tiers historiaclly have been absolute shit. It's a bit of hyperbole.

[@TheAssirra]

@@td6460 Torghast was great in beta. You even see it? It was fucking nuts and hilarious. CN changed a TON from beta to release. Remember that we had raid testing super freaking late and in the first couple days the raiding addons didn't even had some spells on it like waves of blood for Shriekwing.

[@V1CT1MIZED]

It’s in mikes best interests to say the game is good even tho it’s shit. He makes a living from it

[@MurphyGreg]

Sad to hear this Mike. But thanks for all you do for all of us who enjoy the game. Your real team....us fans, will never break up bro. Enjoy your family time. And looking forward to the next vid :))

[@cameronpack3965]

I miss the OG intro, with the dragon. Iconic as fuck.

[@MrDrop442]

If only he would've kept it his good would still be here lol. But I'm all seriousness I lived that into simple and effective

[@jellyman420]

Much love brother been playing this game for what 16 years now. It happens, it sucks. I’ve met so many good people and that was always worth it. You’ll find your place again and the real friends will always stay in touch! Enjoy chrono trigger one of my favs got it on my ps vita lol

[@mortals94]

My Heroic guild is about is about to break up if we dont kill Denathrius this week (we are about 150 wipes, 0.8% best pull) Hoping for the best. EDIT: WE KILLED IT. LETS FUCKING GOOOOO

[@ablecdn1565]

Gonna try mythic?

[@mysteryman2961]

Gz

[@Shoshkan01]

Bro you made your comment 2hours ago, and you edited to say you killed it? i call BS

[@mortals94]

@@Shoshkan01 we did the pull right around 20 mins after i made the comment. Ill upload the kill video in a bit. edit: vids on my channel

[@HOBOsnake]

@@Shoshkan01 it is reset day idk why you'd think he's lying

[@Exocraze]

Something similar to what he explained about hidden extra time actually happened to me and it burned me out pretty quickly. I enjoyed CN for the first few times I was in there, but my guild had us raiding like 2 extra nights a week and it was "optional" but never actually felt as such, and I just couldn't keep doing that, so I stepped down as well.

[@Jonaldo75]

Despite the initial enjoyment of Shadowlands I've already grown tired of it and quit. It's actually been quite a disappointing expansion, too much time gated content and pointless mechanics that don't add to the game. PVP is the only thing worth doing right now and unfortunately for WoW, a lot of other games do PVP a lot better.

[@UltimateGamerCC]

your useername shouldnt be Fuego, cause you fizzed out like one of those Bananas Foster fires.

[@rebuildAt29]

Comparing wow pvp to other games is already a mistake. If you want the most unique pvp game wow is for you if not there's plenty of others that I'm sure you'll find.

[@Spikycloud]

@@rebuildAt29 I want to like WoW PvP, it just feels so frustrating. Like you are immediately pitched in to battle against hardened veterans as a noob, quite disheartening.

[@EloquentTroll]

I finished my covenant stories and lost interest, I'm playing SWTOR again.

[@rosco3]

@@rebuildAt29 It's definitely is. I've never seen a game in 2021 with so fucking horrible MM as wow's, you can't take WoW pvp seriously. PvE gear is sometimes BiS for PvP as well. If you want to play exclusively PvP you're fucked, getting as a fresh 60 into arena you'll just get fucked, in BGs you'll do nothing but mindlessly grind. I like the PvP gameplay, but the systems surrounding it are garbage.

[@DonaldTurner]

condolences, Mike. solid video though, you modeled maturity, thank you for that.

[@Dracounguis]

It's funny that everyone left after the first raid tier. You'd expect this more after the last one!

[@MrDean-zz2se]

Preach I am sorry to hear about the guild. Hope things work out, I am truly grateful for all the work you do and the content you bring.

[@Anyntay]

My guild also died recently, raid lead and a few top performers were frustrated with people not having the initiative to ask to do m+/pvp/level alts/anythying, as well as people relying on the raid lead too much to be a personal DBM. I feel the pain, brother.

[@crispybaconmatters7160]

Happens alot. Good players, who put in alot of time and effort, dont want to carry potatos. That usually comes down the expectations being low, and the better players finding guilds that suits their needs more.

[@DakkonDS]

thats why i left a guild i was with for a long time and jumped to a guild that is progressing. there was maybe 5 of us actually putting in work.

[@crispybaconmatters7160]

Its a sad state of affairs tbh, but it comes down to the GM/RL not making the expectations crystal clear and holding players to those expectations. If you expect nothing you get it in return.

[@alicedubois8315]

@@crispybaconmatters7160 Yeah that's kind of the case in my guild, two-thirds are varying levels of decent then there are the carries that just expect cauldrons, feasts etc. while parsing in the greys every boss. I can tell it's starting to become quite frustrating for a few players cause those slackers are getting loot while doing nothing and the drop rate is low as hell...

[@michaelcain-pruis2422]

My guild were ready to push for an CE after forming an amazing roster of guys from other CE guilds... We literally disbanded almost immediately after hitting 2/10 Mythic. The environment we had during Nyalotha was nowhere to be found in Castle. Just constant frustration, anger, arguing, etc. Constant turnover only a few weeks in. I feel like the raid just ended up being unreasonably long and difficult for an opening raid tier these days. Just too much commitment necessary by most raiders to get CE.

[@kiwifan6002]

Who would've thought no loot, another boring currency to keep you on the treadmill, a weekly list of mundane chores, the maw, Chore/Boreghast, having to do all that stuff on alts as well, who thought that would burn people out?! Wow, no way! It's almost like designing a game with retention mechanics and time-gating, throttling players at every moment at the cost of fun and general satisfaction will, in fact, push people away because they play games to have fun and not be throttled and have their time disrespected.

[@Koush88]

its a shame that raiding can have this effect when either the raid is not appealing or just not fun enough

[@22Epic]

The raid is not the issue. Simply the RL left and nobody wanted to fill the role. If someone else would have step up then his guild would still exists, but it's way simplier to be a simple member with no responsabilities just loging to raid.

[@jasonmendoza2044]

As 0Epic0 said, it’s not the raid, the raid itself is awesome

[@Emajenus]

@@22Epic What if I told you that the raid being bad was probably why the RL left? Is it that hard to just think about 2 things instead of 1 thing?

[@22Epic]

@@Emajenus Why are you quoting me ? The reason why the RL left doesn't change anything ....

[@Koush88]

Im just commenting on what preach said XD

[@lonefish8128]

Nothing better than wiping on a boss for 2-3 hours, only to get 35 anima! Or even better, downing 10 mythic bosses and getting only anima! We used to be the pigs following the carrot on a stick, but they don’t even let us take a bite after working us to death. It’s such a simple concept. Blizzard’s respect for people’s time/effort is non-existent imo.

[@MrSenserus]

Shadowlands is great if they learn to just fucking balance classes. Literally the biggest problem in WoW for the previous four expansions is awful lag between balance changes. So many people feel destitute and abandoned and are not having fun feeling forced to meta abuse.

[@nolabets3130]

It's not even that dude, think about when you log in and what is available for you to do in WoW right now, realtalk I think this game is dying finally after 15 years, the loot drops made people feel like their time was worthless and the raid is a slog to get through tbh and the whole thing is becoming kinda stale... The later patches have allot of work to do.

[@furious5009]

It was after he made a video how guilds are the most important thing in the game and you CAN have fun while being good at the game and while doing mythic progress. His guild died in mythic progress and rumors say some people literally gquit the second sire touched the floor.

[@chinaman1]

I feel it, I am getting the feeling that my guild might die soon too.

[@alexanderh2715]

My guild is bleeding out like crazy. I don't even know why excatly. Technically it is a bit less mandatory grind compared to bfa but I just stopped after the first 2 weeks because something felt extremely unrewarding and boring and I am fed up that I need to play wow like a second job. I stepped back from being officer, another officer quit, too and several raiders and even socials left. They all stopped in the last few weeks.

[@chinaman1]

@@alexanderh2715 there's more time gate this time than last time I feel.

[@DJ_Treu]

Sorry to hear :( . Hopefully yall can treat this like you just graduated highschool, May not talk as much but youre still friends and what not.

[@knifetoucher]

I feel like a HUGE part of this is the loot system for raiding. It's never been this bad. Raiding is THE WORST way of the big 3 (dungeons/pvp/raid) to get gear. I fucking got 2 (TWO) pieces of raid drops in the last THREE WEEKS of raiding. It just makes it not worth the time. I'd rather they bring back TF and increase drops.

[@kristinsearight3813]

I agree. Imagine being a boomie and getting boots in raid and dungeon slot, then getting chest piece you are already wearing. I keep getting same shit over and over again. I have like 4 shriekwing cloaks from various sources (vault, trade, loot box), a few of the crit mastery necks but not the one from huntsman. You run m+ to catch up but the covenant gear is 197 which is better than +5 stuff. +7 will get you to normal so thats ok...no way to catch up to heroic ilvl if you need to reroll because your mage left and now you have no mage at all for the roster, let alone getting that mage mythic ready and caught up gear wise. Its a fucking joke. Ive been 203 for at least a month. I keep getting the same items over and over and over again and all my high ilvl stuff would mean I drop so much haste or mastery and be all crit vers which feels shit. If I pvp I can get gear but who the hell wants to drag a PVE player with 0 pvp experience to even 1600 to get 213's? Its the loot 100%. And the legendary timegating. Imagine being a druid and you cant heal a 15 for the guild because you dont have a legendary since you main balance/feral. Oof. Conduits are dog shit as well. Cant even target your main spec or off spec for upgrades. At least with TF and increased drops there was a small chance that m+ that drops gear 16ilvls below yours could drop something, even if the chance was super small.

[@asakarlsson3133]

I know the feeling, was also in a guild that dispanded after 2-3 years together. We all knew each other etc. But pple where moving on and there wasnt anyone who wanted to raid lead and all that left. Was really sad, but you do get over it.

[@stede9304]

F for your guild, man. That sucks. I feel it though. More than ever before, I feel like the game just doesn’t respect my time. We’re only a little aotc guild but all the little things add up to that feeling. And there’s days man, where I just can’t shake the feeling that I’m getting too old for this shit. And it gets me real sad.

[@graden2203]

I for some reason like these types of videos. Gets me right in the feels.

[@mykulpierce]

I honestly did not feel like blizzard really fix the core issues that were wrong with previous expansions. and didn't fall for a lot of the hype of content creators that thought it was going to be better. While there may have been some small quality of life and some changes, they did little to alleviate the overall problem with Blizzard's philosophy around managing an MMO. As long as blizzards game loop revolves around content where you separate yourselves from other players into instances it will always be lackluster compared to wows beginning where players didn't raid out of sheer ignorance of the mechanics of the game. An MMO needs players living in the world in order to build a communities but it was once based on. for players that played MMOs before wow became popular this is a no-brainer.

[@usosaito.namahage]

Original guild I joined during Shadowlands (prior to raids opening) said they were raiding weekends but then decided they were doing it on Tuesday/Wednesday and not only that the posted raid time was scheduled for 7pm EST and they were actually starting at 10pm EST on the different days that didn't match their recruitment posts and what officers were saying. Suffice to say I found a different guild and happy where I am currently.

[@stephaniephouotrides2435]

Preach: THIS IS THE BESTEST EXPANSION EVAR Preach 2 months in: I don't enjoy raiding

[@seanrogers9505]

I don't think he ever said it's the best expansion. He just said it's a good expansion and better than BFA which it is. Just doesn't enjoy the raid, nothing wrong with that.

[@stephaniephouotrides2435]

@@seanrogers9505 my comment was hyperbole but Preach has a tendency to do this, as does Bellular. I'm waiting for his vid next

[@AmandaPelland]

So sorry to hear Preach. I felt for you as I viewed this video and the way the guild ended....the principal of it.

[@flygirlhandm]

They got lost in the Maw.. This truly is the Shadowlands

[@fluxnoble]

I had almost this exact same thing happen with the main half of my guild (2 raid group guild, I partially lead/recruit for the 2nd group that is still going) and even though I wasn't in the group I cried off and on for a good 2 hours or so. The group killed sludgefist then and the guild leader told the group that he didnt want to play the game anymore and just like that the group was done. This was my home for almost 3 years. I have been friends with many of the players for over 5 years. Went to my first Blizzcon in 2019 and met many of them for the first time. I'm thankful It lasted as long as it did because it always felt like something was around the corner that could bring an end to it all. Its sad, but it is what it is.

[@alittlebirdi]

Something about Shadowlands just drains my energy so quickly. Even BFA's azerite grind didn't do this much damage to my soul. The problem is I don't know what exactly it is. It does suck how alt unfriendly this expansion is if you want to get more than one character to a moderately competitive state (200+ ilvl), but BFA wasn't really much better...yet there's something else here and I just don't know what it is.

[@edwinortiz1262]

I think it's being able to clear heroic nathria and not getting a single drop, then the vault is all duplicates.

[@Zora147]

What? This is the most alt friendly expac in a while. Doesn't take long at all to reach max level. Not extreme amounts of grinding. Only problem this expac has is that the rewards feel like they are at an all time low because of the low gear drop rates, that's really the only thing that's not alt friendly but then again neither is it main friendly either.

[@Yellowgreenblue069]

@@edwinortiz1262 how loot protection for chests hasn’t been added i have no clue. it’s just lazy imo.

[@alittlebirdi]

@@Zora147 Exactly! Every avenue that leads to loot is a grind. PvP, dungeons, anima, the weekly box, its all such a grind and I have zero motivation to do it on more than one character after how much of a slog it was on my main. I am STILL using my covenant set shoulders to this day even though the majority of my pieces are 220+.

[@Fabriciod_Crv]

@@alittlebirdi anima gear is just good for catch up, fully upgraded is just mythic 0 level

[@Jiiimmie]

Thats just sad, missing out on the kill and logging in to see an empty shell of a former guild.. F my dude!

[@DoubleMeatpalace]

I would agree with you except they asked you to sit, most likely, knowing they wouldn't be back to get you in on the next kill. That is a bullshit-douche move. I would have a hard time being friends with them if they did that to me.

[@humungus3]

And then totally disband 20 minutes after he logs off, with no mention of what was coming. They really did Mike dirty.

[@tipsycreations7290]

I agree, he put a lot of time and effort into these guys and it seems they just used him. Hard to say though because at the end of the day it's just a game vs long time friendships.

[@hehaw4147]

They probably blame him for hyping them on about how great Shitshowlands was gonna be so they were salty that they wasted their time

[@t.a.p.8.4]

There's real sadness in your eyes Mike, makes me sad for you. Hope some good will come out of all this eventually. C'est la vie, like we say in my country, though it doesn't make it any easier.

[@BrunoLopes-ou1gy]

back to the old intro, nice, I missed that.

[@bou3621]

Man same bs happened for us to that's why I changed my playstyle to focus on keys with 4 close friends that I know won't leave or quit on you at any moment so now we really having fun. I hope you find ur place too again

[@Nobleshield]

Big oof, sorry to hear that Preacherman. I can see where they're coming from though, I think Shadowlands is quickly falling off from the hype for a lot of people. For different reasons of course but something definitely seems "off" with Shadowlands. And in the end, no matter the reason(s) if you aren't having fun why keep playing?

[@andreware2039]

I do feel this sometimes. The one reason why it doesn't hit as hard is because of the guild I'm in. Everyone just takes it easy and never really force anyone to do things or take the content super seriously. However, I am finding it hard to not have my dissatisfaction with the classes hit hard. The more I play dk the more keep seeing holes in the class as a whole. Like, there's so much more that they can do with it, but not being expanded on.

[@Alenarien]

I randomly woke up 2-3 weeks ago and felt the familiar “What the f*ck am I doing on this grindy hamster wheel?” It was a sudden realisation that I wasn’t really being rewarded for my time invested, along with the sameness of every week (do your sanctum weeklies, Maw weeklies, Torghast weeklies, anima weeklies, etc). I just stopped playing cold turkey and didn’t look back.

[@sr7olsniper]

The main reason it feels odd is the gearing is just garbage. It used to be you could get BIS in a semi effortless matter and then move to another character and enjoy everything the game has to offer. Now, more and more you are pretty much FORCED to stick to one char and alts are relegated to just vault lottery. The maw is a joke and Torghast is pointless besides just getting ash. TC once you do it once then it’s also dead content. Doing multiple M+ for no gear is soul crushing.

[@100Predator]

I feel the same as everyone above me has described :/

[@Valkari22]

@@Alenarien the gearing is super frustrating and not fun at all. It's hard watching someone get your best in slot trinket and you're still sitting around with the fucking darkmoon deck because RNG, for some reason this xpac just feels so much more punishing if luck isn't on your side. Removing warforge and titanforge was a good idea but decreasing the drops was just a vindictive move; watching 3 pieces drop in a 20+ size raid feels awful.

[@TheSivGaming]

I feel the same way about this tier of raiding. We are still working on Heroic castle. But the gm pushed the group as we keep pushing the lockout and bosses instead of re-clearing so its been a rough raid tier. But things seem to be looking up. I hope you find a perfect raid home for the remaining tiers and into the future Preach.

[@Deeps__]

I quit mythic in legion when my second kid was born, just HC now and have far more fun.

[@TacBlades]

Same love heroic, is just fun nothing more is needed for me.

[@cattysplat]

I don't see the fun in the mythic experience AKA slamming your head into a brick wall over and over to be in the sweaty cool club. Heroic is the best balance of challenge and rewarding.

[@Deeps__]

@@cattysplat it’s the challenge of the difficulty. Tbh I also found mythic to be increasingly toxic, this was not the case with the old HC, why? I have no idea but more and more people I know are quiting mythic.

[@Raze_48]

I feel you @Preach ... I trusted Blizzard this xpac and decided to play what I *wanted* to play and found fun, my Sub Rogue. Well, thanks to Blizzard and their bullshit class meta my guild was stacked with tryhards that all re-rolled either Druid or Hunter. So even when I was top 1-3 melee on a given raid night, I was still only sometimes cracking the top 10 dps because we had 5 of each meta class. Mix in an Affliction Lock and a Spriest and I was lucky to stick in the top 15. Not because I was terrible, but because the faceroll this xpac is real. The raid itself was meh, and I found myself bored quickly... So between that and "LoLcOnVoKe Go BuRrRr" I ended up stopping play entirely and un-subbing around mid January. I think this was Blizzard last kick at the can for me, 15 years in for me and I'm just not willing anymore to risk my precious free time on WoW.

[@alexabager3242]

F, but in the same time looking forward to see if a Laps Around Dalaran will be published about it.

[@cas6382]

Maybe in 6+ months when they finally care enough

[@БорисМ-д1б]

Thank for sharing something this emotional and important for you.

[@squashua16]

I said during beta. I give it 2-3 months before it dives off a cliff. Not sure thats an accurate description but it was a high high now the low lows are coming.

[@ANTERIORcs]

I think the problem with the game is that everything that made it World of Warcraft has basically been stripped from the game entirely. It's just not the same anymore.

[@Aeluron]

So basically nothing of substance.

[@Yarzu555]

@@ANTERIORcs it’s probably too formulaic. I took a break for most of BFA playing other games or catching up on games I’ve missed. Honestly? I loved every second of it and fell in love with a ton of new series. A week into SL I realized it’s just the same... which is weird it took me until SL to realize for myself but I think I needed that break to realize it. It wasn’t new, it wasn’t exciting. It wasn’t until I hit max and started the usual grind that it really hit home as well. Tbh i can’t really explain it too well myself. Maybe it was the time away that broke me out of that cycle? Still interested in the story and everything but I wonder how many others feel that way. Might still come back now and then to blow through the story stuff.

[@Aeluron]

Calling a bunch of people addicts @_@ dude thats just lame.

[@TheAssirra]

@@hydraulixx more like insulting people without any base....

[@fenikslied]

I'm sorry. Kind of reminds me when my guild died in BFA. Alot of our star players said they were done when we were 1/2 way through heroic, and then our GL just quit. Honestly, it's been hard to get back into WoW ever since. Even though I wasn't super attached to this guild was only with them a month, it sucked having that activity yoinked away and the way it ended kept me thinking about how fleeting raid tiers and the gameplay loop is. If you always think of WoW in terms of "the next big thing means more" then there's no reason to play. Because there's always going to be a next thing. I thought I might grind gold and pay for mount runs at the end of SL, but the gameplay loop has me burned out. I was looking forward to playing multiple characters, but between Ion's lost promise on that and how slow everything feels without flying, I just felt done. Not to mention it just hasn't innovated much. I still want to play, the art is amazing, but it feels lost on me.

[@GLOCKRIVERSTV]

This is like preach doing his own drama time lol

[@CalestoBella]

I think COVID has really dampened people's ability to enjoy things they usually would. Imagine how much organic conversation has been killed because no one has any random stories of the things that have happened to them during the day. Because no one can do anything during the day. I personally have this underlining anxiety and frustration. My work from home situation is cramped and sometimes noisy since my child is doing school from home in the next room. I am frustrated with people visiting friends and family, while I canceled the only vacation I could have taken in 2020 because of COVID. I played Shadowlands for about a month and it just felt like the same old grind with a shinier coat of paint. People built Shadowlands up to be this redemption for the year, and it couldn't ever live up to the expectation people put on it.

[@darthenx2585]

I would say that is still a shit way of ending it because not everyone in the raid team got a chance to end the raid tier. They helped get there and got cut short hyat because the leaders wanted a break.

[@22Epic]

It's not a shit way, if someone whould have step up to take the role of RL, then his guild would still exists. The only issue is that nobody did as it's way simplier to be a simple member with no responsabilities simply loging for raids.

[@DragonflyenAmber]

Sorry to hear about your guild. One thing I have noticed this expack is how hard it is to get unguilded folks into guilds at all. So many have been scared off by raid/guild drama etc that they don't even want to join to begin with. I have a tiny guild and we run a few things together but no raiding as no one is motivated to put in the work it takes to organise and manage a team. Add into that the inconsistencies with gear drops and folks are even less motivated it seems. Just my thoughts from what I have observed so far.

[@H2ydrogen]

It was written on the wall. Many MANY players who has been sticking around for ages are just fed up. It's sad :/

[@moebiusmania]

fun fact, I've unsubbed the same day that this video came out and discovered it today (2 days later), and I've been active since Cata. Shadowlands (or bfa 2 as it's more appropriate to call it) is the expac that bored me so quickly and the overall direction that the game is sustaining right now just doesn't appeal me.

[@Uhhmazing123]

I remember when my guild broke up :( we also would go on vacations together and we were strong for a few years nothing in the ladders but bonding was amazing our synergy was amazing and when I lost them felt like i lost my family never found a home since then.

[@DJRiyzen]

I'm on the fence of quitting as well. I was having allot of fun playing FF14, and came back to WoW for the Raiding. The amount of work you have to do for raiding, seems more and more every tier now, and this tier harder than ever before without much reward for it, other than bragging rights. Not being part of a world first guild, but still having to commit allot of time to stay relevant feels really bad. Not sure how much longer I will be playing, but I think I will stay long enough to get Heroic Sire down.

[@Furcas]

Good lord you aren't kidding. I played all of WoD, Legion, and BFA. Heroic raided throughout large portions of it including all of BFA. The chore list since Assjatar and Mechagon were put in is insane. I'm not sure who thought Shadowlands was better, but it's not. Give me 8.1.5 BFA or any part of WoD over this. I've been trying to get up to speed for just plain old heroic raiding and the chore list is miles long to catch up on Renown and other necessities. Even BFA's chores had an end to them though. With this stuff like the Maw and Torghast we'll just be doing them the whole expac. The Maw alone makes me want to quit.

[@raky76]

Totally get it, hopefully, they will be back for the next content, clearly, many of the core team were burnt out from such a push.

[@Snoozems]

The only thing that makes me a bit miffed on your behalf, is asking you to sit out, knowing they're not going to do another kill. That's shitty.

[@billymays9296]

It's not like they can bring more than 20 people. Someone will always have to sit.

[@V1CT1MIZED]

@@billymays9296 exactly, it’s refreshing to see people not suck up to KZbinrs

[@AS-yw1jz]

Feel for you brother. Know what that feels like first hand. 16years it happens all the timr it still hurts.

[@Mignacia_]

“Meaningful” upgrades is what is killing pve currently i think, had 2 of my closest wow friends stop playing for the tier at least.

[@borga6566]

You can have the loot drop more frequently and still be a meaningful upgrade.

[@ac833]

Yep. Why bang my head against an unfunny raid when we can just push keys for the vault

[@ZeroX252]

Hell, stats are so arbitrary and the math so hidden and muddy now it's hard to feel excited for a piece of gear anymore. And even when you get it - there's at least 3 other versions of the same item that are slightly better.

[@__-fi6xg]

i think its good enough to do 4 high keys for mythic gear and be done with it. 4 is a good number for a working man and you have no obligation to raid, tough my guild does hc clear in 3 hours-4 hours, usually 1 drop. But weekly chest rewards M+ dungeons way better for easier content.

[@douglasw0]

@@__-fi6xg So this is the problem right there: The overall time expenditure to obtain 2 choices from dungeon gear is significantly less than obtaining 3 choices from raid gear (given all the time and effort it takes to clear a tier), but the dungeon gear scales better for less effort. The Wow gearing system doesn't lend itself to "meaningful loot"...a system where you replace EVERY piece of gear with a better piece 4 - 5 times over the course of an expansion does not make anything meaningful. The Definition of meaningful was an Everquest class epic that was GENERALLY on your person through 5 - 7 ***expansions***. I'm not suggesting that this was a good gearing system, I'm suggesting that no piece of gear I will replace 5 times in 2 years can be considered meaningful...no matter how hard you make it to obtain. Meaningful is obtaining a BIS weapon in legion that continues to be competitive in Nathira. Wow SL "meaningful" means making it harder to obtain any gear even though better gear exists, and knowing that if you ever DO get it, you'll have just as hard a time getting it next time...which isn't meaningful, it's just the definition of "feels bad".

[@Lordlt82]

This is exactly what happened to me and my guild. Hits the feels when people you been playing with for years go away.

[@arthas_stormr8ge877]

Damn preach I feel ya buddy, that happened to me on mythic nzoth. I spent over 3 months in mythic nyalotha and was in on half the pulls on mythic nzoth the one day I had to sit out because real world issues the guild killed it then broke apart after. That’s why i didn’t really wanna go for hall of fame this tier. Feelsbad bro Iam still salty over it.

[@foust117]

As someone who has just gone full casual (not even raiding with a guild anymore) it's sad to hear this but understandable based on everything you said about what caused the break-up and I do feel like part of is this expansion got rushed to launch. The other thing I really feel is Blizzard have let the LFR/Normal/Heroic/Mythic raid tiers kind of stagnate the game to where we've come back to PvP gear is good for raiding and super easy to get compared to any other gear out there. Myself, I'm enjoying the laid-back pace I've taken and so far have enjoyed the expansion. Hit a bit of a brick wall with Torghast but part of that is me just making bad plays. I hope that the next tier Blizz will have recovered from the upheaval that was dealing with Covid shutdowns but even without that it feels like the opening of this expansion was in serious trouble. Anyway, thank you for the video Preach, it's a good reminder to everyone that it's okay to not enjoy the game and just take a step back.