Gearing Side Effects [TDP]

[@grick7379]

For me personally, it just feels like there's a big hole called "Valor System" in the gearing process.

[@omarcomming722]

Has been there for 6 years now

[@Prengle]

Absolutely. It's almost like if Blizz wants to capture the feel of gear progression of older expacks they can, just, you know, use the system's that worked.

[@Orapac4142]

@@Prengle it's a good idea, so they won't.

[@slykeren8371]

@@Prengle same thing with pvp gear

[@davidwellmann4985]

@@Prengle oh come on so many people cried about gear being thrown at them and asked for the good old times

[@ohilaugh]

A person with a day job plus a lot of irl obligations, playing casually has been unrewarding. i cant sit for hours trying to do m+, raids, and some pvp. Then getting 35 anima as rewards rather than drops has been very frustrating, and only upgrades are from the vault and sometimes getting duplicates. Playing other games has been more rewarding than wasting time that I barely even have. I hope they fix it in future updates/patches or I might as well not waste my money on this game.

[@PassionPossum]

I'd rather them give more anima, or none at all. 35 anima after spending an hour in a hard failed key seems like a laugh in the face.

[@BcxWarr]

This is actually the exact opposite, as a casual player I just log on unlock vault and open them. Its super easy for casual to keep up cause there is nothing for people to spam with their degenerate hours and gain crazy amounts of gear past me.

[@brentsteven4944]

some people are saying they need a badge / marks system for M+ where you can get the currency from doing it and buy gear eventually if you dont get anything from the dungeons, this way you are actually working toward something besides the one thing you get from the vault. i completely agree with this idea

[@Orapac4142]

It's almost like the system worked great when they had it in the game the first time.

[@dominiosss1474]

Ikr, i wonder why so many people like PVP now when compared to before. Its not like they get conquest each time they win which can be spent on upgrading gear or anything... to make it worth your time instead of just getting 35 anima from shit RNG.

[@ohinianahiuhki9088]

@@Orapac4142 it did not, and everyone complained about it back in Legion, M+ is at its best right now, what sucks is the scarcity of loot, do not confuse those 2 systems.

[@SmugHomura]

Fin: "I don't actually know how these dungeons work I just follow the tank" Preach: "so yeah guys if you ever need help with M+ shoot us a comment, Fin's got loads of experience!"

[@MrPFMneto]

Typical DPS mentality...

[@Judiacator]

Add a badge like currency system that you can get to 210 gear with caps on how much you get per week. So that even if you get no loot from say 10 runs. You still have earned the currency to buy an item. Like you have suggested

[@Cashinn_Outt1754]

If they do that the badges should only drop in M+, normal raid or above, and rated PvP

[@Judiacator]

@@Cashinn_Outt1754 tbh. I was only thinking as a m+ specific system. If you arent pugging raids, you will get gear inside a guild via drop or trade. And pvp system is fine as is - best its ever been i think

[@mortisoculi8943]

Currency for m+, like conquest. Make it small amounts for each key, dependent on level and timing/+2 the chest. Then cap it each week. Players can get lucky with the low chance for gear each key, but if not then they still get closer to buying an upgrade

[@Orapac4142]

@@mortisoculi8943 litteraly anything other than "run half a dozen M+ and only walk out with 35 anima"

[@Kmaitland89]

@@Orapac4142 this, 1000%. M+ feels so un rewarding.

[@dolan3989]

For how good you two are, you kinda don't understand tank mechanics. On that scuffed pull at the start, the buff is a dmg(30% AS inc) + addheal on melee, and the adds put 2x 20% dmg taken on you as well, and prot paladins simply have to kite that pack until they are cleansed and the adds CC'd appropriately, I assume other tanks have to do this as well to some extent. This is negated when your DPS pump too, but when I did it on a 16 I had to run around. But I think this showcases the strain tanks are facing right now, on top of having to deal with good players simply not interested in keys below a 14 (as you stated around 8:30). This is leading to tanks in the 10-13 range getting DPS who don't CC, don't know what packs hurt so they don't save CD's appropriately, etc. What's happening is tanks are dying and dps are rage quitting keys citing poor tank play, but there's very little the average player can do because they aren't being fed 220+ gear. It's likely a small problem, but even reading class discords to help out or reading reddit comments, people simply don't want to tank right now. It's extremely frustrating and punishing because DPS need to know what packs hurt too to make life easier on the tank. Also, after finishing the entire video I wanted to add that Finn's view of DPS just following the tank along is basically what I am frustrated with. "I don't know what the dungeons do" yet still being high IO is just a huge design flaw from blizzard because the tanks are the one's being punished, NOT the dps. DPS right now bursting for 30k+ with pride on decently sized pulls don't give a damn about mechanics, yet as a tank there's some dungeons where I have to interupt, stun, and kite or I die. DPS can pump. Healers can keep up (mostly shamans for super high keys), tanks just die. I have also gotten the majority of my gear from PvP as well since it is haste/vers. Another issue is that I am passing up 226 vault items because I can just upgrade my PvP gear to an appropriate Ilvl. Even though 226 is 6ilvls higher (I am only aiming for 1800), the stats are simply not great for prot (crit) over haste/vers. When I do push a friends' lower key, the players are much, much, MUCH worse than the "worst" +14 PuG I've had so far. I had 10 15+ timed from this push week and 56 10-14 timed from previous weeks, and it's just frustrating putting that kind of time in as a tank when DPS don't know what hurts and gets mad that I am kiting. You guys are good DPS players, so you're able to zug zug through a 14 pretty easily. Myself and many other tanks don't get this luxury, and god forbid I try to do a 14 or 15 as a prot pal over DH right now too. If they are going to let me get 220 gear through PvP with minimal investment (in both time and money) compared to m+, then they should give an incentive to run 10-14 keys by introducing yet another currency that would let us upgrade gear to an appropriate Ilvl based on the highest key you have timed (you know, similar to upgrading with valour points way back). Players would then be able to upgrade their 210 +15 drop to a 220 or something by simply timing a 15 and farming dungeons for currency, perhaps getting a 16/17 timed lets you upgrade to 223, a 18/19 timed gets you a 226, and then 20+ gets you access to 233, similar to how the best PvPers can get 233 items, and how CE guilds can get donny/stone legion loot too. Then these good players could go into the easier keys to farm the currency, helping out inexperienced players. Just cap the currency each week similar to conquest, so you are looking at getting an upgrade roughly once/week as long as you can maintain timing 15's. I think it's a good start to the idea, but again if you're not running a 14 then you need to do 2 dungeons for the price of 1 for your great vault.

[@andrewshandle]

I think a M+ currency to allow you to upgrade M+ items only is likely the best answer to the problem. They'd need to cap it to prevent people from spamming non-stop M+s a week (much like Honor and Conquest are capped in PvP), but at least doing something like a 7+ wouldn't be a waste of time.

[@tahroo4262]

Don't forget a strain on healers too.. there's so much garbage mechanics on trash that needs to be interrupted, cleansed, purged, stunned, kited, line of sighted, moved out of and healed through. DPS get to zone out in happy land and make numbers go higher and you notice that even a bit after that first pull it took awhile for Fin to think "maybe I should just heal myself between this pull so the healer can get the mage and hunter". It's frustrating, stressful, and all around with the loot the way it is.. extremely unrewarding and not worth the time.

[@andrewshandle]

​@@tahroo4262 DPS doesn't know mechanics, don't CC, don't interrupt, don't avoid obvious damage: "I think this is overtuned"

[@dolan3989]

@@andrewshandle Yep. I've gotten 210 loot that are upgrades (shield, neck, helmet) this week. At 10 +15's done this week, with each key taking about 30 minutes to do, 5-10 to form, 1.5k flask every single run just to make it a bit easier, I would like to have better Ilvl loot to show for it. I'm actually fine with the amount of loot that drops in m+, but it's frustrating that when it DOES drop, I have to pray that the upgrade for that slot is the same item from my weekly chest. I can spend 2 hours getting conquest cap at a 60% WR every week until I get to 1800 and I've already gotten 5 pieces of 213 loot (6th this week). I chose a 213 item from my cache because I figured I could just upgrade it eventually, which would be better than going up 13 ilvls with bad stats on another slot that I can also just upgrade. When I get into heroic I can just trade everything I get since most of the stats are bad.

[@MrOPD]

TDPs used to be kinda interesting during Legion. You know, when Preach played a plethora of classes, specs and roles in somewhat average gear ind dungeons of adequate difficulty. Nowadays it's just him and 1-2 guildies running through 207 dropping dungeons on their 225 equipped characters, not knowing shit about half of the mechanics while simultaneously questioning every single pug for doing anything different than their 225 guild main tanks that always have a 225 healer having their back. I'm sorry, but he's become insanely ignorant with these last couple TDPs. For someone who's supposedly so close to the wow community and up2date with forums and all that... he just doesn't seem to be aware that there are indeed quite a few outliers in some mythic + dungeons. But I suppose being a hunter and just brain afk pulling 20k dps on every pack leads to such an obliviousness - and it's certainly not being helped by him them being all proud and huge when he's doing a Bursting Shot after his tank's died to a mechanic he doesn't even know exists in the first place. C'mon Preach, you're better than this.

[@joshuagarner1654]

They think if we get too much loot we will quit. But now we arent getting any loot so we will quit

[@Chris-oo8dd]

i'd rather gear up slowly than max out on gear and quit cos I'm bored, like last expansion.

[@ganstaeddie7]

@@Chris-oo8dd other than mythic+ its the same as last expansion

[@huezos8957]

side effect for me: do 10 +m (or 4), then dont touch the game till next week.

[@Cashinn_Outt1754]

@Vambrace so what exactly is the problem with doing your M+, raid then being done for the week?

[@Argennon]

@@Cashinn_Outt1754 do you not think that people should primarily play this game for fun?

[@arthurschopenhauer292]

@@Cashinn_Outt1754 do other activities in game? Its WORLD of warcraft not instances of warcraft, theres so much world content in shadowlands still has lots to do to finish achievements or mounts.

[@nateyoung925]

@@arthurschopenhauer292 yeah but a lot of us want to do content that's actually challenging

[@dirtnap9641]

@@nateyoung925 then do higher level keys

[@Harry-dh2pm]

I'm struggling with M+, Preacherman, pls help... It's bloody prideful. I'm a tank, mostly always have been. In BFA and legion, you could always correct mistakes in M+, unless it was a like 20+. Underpulling/overpulling was fine. In SL, prideful is so extremely punishing, if there's a single fuck up in a 40 minutes run, I kiss goodbye to my key. Example from earlier tonight - Necrotic wake 16. In the opening I pulled an additional pack that I didn't mean to. I'm tired, I fucked up. Ideally, I'd want to pause time, open MDT, figure out what extra % that gave, and see what I needed to skip to make up WHILE maintaining pride spilts for later bosses. That's a 30 seconds job if you're fast IN NW. If you stand still to do this for 4 seconds in Pugs, at best, people will scream at you to move, at worst, a DPS will just start on the next pack while you're doing math. So I just guessed, praying it's the right %. Later, during the gauntlet at the 3rd boss, pride spawns slightly too early, we wipe, group immediately disbands. Rip. Do you have any advise on fallback plans in cases of fucked up % routes on the fly? I don't think it's feasible to do the math in your head from memory of what packs give what %, while working out exactly how it will affect the next 3 pride splits (again, there's basically 0 margin for error). It also doesn't feel realistic to make X*[number of possible fuck ups] routes per dungeon, and memorise all of them either. It feels like the only strategy when it's a key is: do it perfectly first time, make 0 mistakes. Also, to your point in the video about not wanting to help friends on low keys, I feel you. Every day I get whispers to help in 11s, 13s, 9s, etc. I have to say no. Grinding a few 15/16 with the above mentioned routing stress is already miserable enough, thanks.

[@lamenteinvertita]

Tbh NW is the most punishing one out there with pride timings since you can't really skip any trash after second boss. Worst case scenario you pull less and skip the pride (for fortified weeks). If dps ninjas just tell them GG route is fucked now, congrats and brace yourself. Trust me, you missdirect all blame to that dps and you miss lots of drama :D I for instance have always two routes for dungeons where you can fuck up, such as PF and HOA. Play both of them so you get used to both of them

[@ohinianahiuhki9088]

I think the issue is that you are expecting "a fuck up" to be unpunishing on that level of content, you're hardcore M+, doing +16 is not what a casual would ever do, so you shouldn't be expecting YOUR mistakes to be unpunished, specially in that level of content, pug or not, that key was most likely burned.

[@Harry-dh2pm]

@@ohinianahiuhki9088 like I said, equal fuck ups were punished way less in the past, and will be way less punishing next season. It's the nature if the prideful beast.

[@Centripital1]

Heroic raider here - 7/10H all through pugging. I have hit a wall. You guys nailed it - the single remaining route of upgrading my gear now is PVP. At 205.9 ilvl, I cannot get invited to any 10 keys as a DK DPS, unless I have my pocket healer with me. Even if I do get an invite toa key, there are few to no rewards. I really hope to see a vendor that allows us to spend badges for completing m+. Upgrade our gear to the level of m+ we have achieved, similar to PVP.

[@goran77ish]

You should say Heroic pug raider here, with guilds it is a different story. You wall is because you don't have M+ team and pug players perception. I am sure that end of M+ reward of 210 item level would be an upgrade for you on some slots. You can do keys like that with a guild but to get in pug +14, not a chance. It is an old problem, you know, "LFP that are higher item level then the raid drops". It was like that in Legion, BfA and now to. So get a guild or some friends and game will be way more fun, even if you do low keys with drunk friends. I had drunk friend healer that died all the time yesterday in M+. Good thing is I tank as paladin and key was not high so we managed healing group. Made it more fun then sterile calculated run.

[@ganstaeddie7]

@@goran77ish Tbh this is such a naive response so many players give "just join a guild 4head" as if all guilds weren't created by a clique-y friend groups for the purpose of using its members to gear each other so they can continue doing 5 man content without including others. I'm sure people will point fingers and say I just found a bad guild but it is quite literally been the case for all guilds I've EVER joined over decades of playing, and if you're being honest with yourselves many people agree. If you don't agree you're probably part of the inner circle (clique) of your guild. I'm currently in the only mythic raiding guild on my server so there really isn't any options to change guilds either if someone claims I should just find a better guild that isn't toxic. And IF it's important to anyone I'm also the highest performing player in the guild and contrary to my statements no I am not toxic or have a large ego in raid, I am cordial and respectful to all members and still get left out of things, demoted from raider rank for being late 30 minutes, kicked from guild when offline for a few months, if I ask to join keys there is always a reason or no room. Guilds are toxic period.

[@goran77ish]

@@ganstaeddie7 That is true, I am in clique of course, every guild have it and I never had trouble fitting in some in every guild. It is subjective view I guess. It helps out that I main tank and have that tank lead the group mentality and I am not a bad player (used to raid heroic/mythic when it was max content in past expansions but now I shill in heroic raiding guild and have fun). In my heroic guild half of people are kind of bad but other half of us don't mind that to drag them trough heroic raid. But for M+ we pick best players to push but still once a week I tank low keys for others, and it is fun. I stopped caring about gear to much long time ago, it is just buff you get till you swap it soon so who cares, for the level of content we play. But, I know that is not mentality most people have and I am sad for them. Sometimies wiping because healer in M+ is drunk is far more fun then progressing mythic raid. Well not sometimes, all the time. It is a game not a chore.

[@quatron---]

The side effect of current gearing is that casual players stop playing because there is 0 reward.

[@benjaminkett2223]

Yup, half of our heroic guild is essentially raid logging now, because nobody wants to do M+ and they don't really want to do PvP.

[@woutvandessel1823]

Casual player here. I personally disagree. For me, as a casual, my main goal isn't to stay on par with the best players or anything like that. I want to see the raid content, for sure, but as long as I've done all of LFR and most of normals I'm quite happy with that. IMO, if the only thing you value in the game is the numbers you're putting out and the gear you've gotten and you're trying to be a casual player, you're starting off right away with the wrong mindset. There's so much fun stuff to do in WoW that I personally feel like putting too much of a focus on your gear and your dps meters or whatever is a surefire way to optimize the fun out of the game and end up feeling disappointed as hell. And looking at the people who *do* put countless hours into their character so that they can be the best of the best, I'm glad for them that their dedication results in them getting quite a lot better gear than someone like me who will do a few mythics with guildies here and there but no more than that.

[@thomassmith8159]

@@woutvandessel1823 this comment needs to be pinned and shared with every "casual" player in the world

[@quatron---]

​ @Wout Van Dessel I see where you're comming from but i dont agree. For plenty of people (including casuals) having some reward is a good incentive to play. But if u dont like pvp, there is very little reason to do anything. For instance, M+ dungeons (especially a bit higher ones) for plenty of ppl require a decent amount of consumables, which are very expensive. Why would they do that with such a low chance of reward? Then u got the Maw which is a total shitshow, Torghast isnt much better for just soul ash, and u kinda need to do the maw for that as well. I have limited time to play so i do my renown stuff and maybe level some alts. But besides that i much rather do something else that actually feels like i get something out of it besides 35 anima. And that just isnt in wow right now. Yes, i do realise some ppl dont care about reward at all. But what i read below, most people do care. And they just dropped the ball. I honestly feel if they dont make some changes to this, Shadowlands will be the next terrible expansion.. While it looked so so good during the beta.

[@horsebird9251]

I’m literally just playing alts and doing transmog at this point

[@josephbegley9148]

Preach, thank you so much for highlighting these issues again. The gearing system in Shadowlands is a nightmare for busy, casual, or solo players, or anyone who wants to gear up their alts to a reasonable level. We would practically have to do rated PvP, Mythic+, and raiding at multiple difficulties to keep all item slots competitive at this point-which isn’t possible if you can’t commit to a schedule with an organized group. And the Great Vault can’t be relied upon because it still provides only one item per week, and being RNG often generates nonsensical “options” such as duplicates and lower/same iLvl versions of what you already have equipped. I do not expect and have never expected BiS or Mythic raiding level gear, but I still want to experience some level of power progression while enjoying the game and not feeling like I have to challenge myself every second I am logged in.

[@idk1788]

I went from 204 to 206 this week. I dont have a m+ team so pugs can be really painful. Wasnt lucky with raid drops and my pvp skills aren't good enough to get an upgrade. Hopefully the vault will boost me a little

[@lukeluckynblue1873]

on my main i dont do raid and pvp :D i upgrade my gear from 205 - 206 on my alt 193-201

[@melaconwow]

"Only took a week to catch up, not that bad, although I did do 56 M+ dungeons"..............

[@Soulwell90]

I get on wow for 5 minutes and then realize I don't have the motivation to play anymore, this expansion went from amazing to dreadful to play fast af. So I'm in the exact position you two were talking about and it's depressing.

[@Jaigarful]

Not to toot my own horn (too much), but we called this issue when they announced titanforge was going away and loot drops were going to decrease at Blizzcon 2019.

[@serge2cool]

Felt exactly the same. Just take a breather and return at your own pace and it'll be alright

[@Soulwell90]

@@serge2cool Yep that's exactly what I'm doing

[@Soulwell90]

@@Jaigarful Yea I agree

[@Varichan]

@@Jaigarful titanforge having gone away was a good thing tho. Nothing was a worse feeling than working your arse off on a mythic boss, just to do a no-brain m+ the next day and get a titanforge, that is better than the loot you got from the mythic boss. dumfuk devs just once again forgot to give us back a bloody currency system as we used to have, that would allow to target specific items you still needed.

[@legentarynuro]

The soulcleavers in mists appart from having a buff that heals them whevener they Auto attack they also put him a debuiff that increases his dmg taken by 40% which is big , so yeah he needs to kite them a lot if he doesn't have cd's.

[@WorgenDeath]

About 4 minutes in when the tank dies you seem surprised he is having to kite in a 14, yeah, that is what tanking m+ is like right now, it's awfull, if you aren't 220 geared you are just running laps constantly. Unless you are a dh in which case you facetank during meta and then run laps outside of it.

[@SteelfurSpeaks]

The only time getting from 190 to 200+ felt good was when Ulduar time walking was out :D

[@serge2cool]

Inb4 the nerf (very meaningless nerf)!

[@TheMelonbrew]

That is spot on. I got great gear for my warrior before they needed the loot in there

[@WeirdViking]

9:30 This entire problem was pointed 100x by me and numerous others when great vault was announced. This glaring issue with it was so fucking obvious but blizzard just refusing to listen is the reason I stopped playing after alpha/beta. They have zero interest in actually fixing the game unless there's a massive uproar about it, like there was about Shadowpriest as a class or PVP gearing or Torghast.

[@mikeymikeshooms3581]

Getting lvl 80 in wotlk and immediately crafting merlins robe for a fresh clothie was awesome

[@Lindyn773]

I really hope they address the "PvP/Vault or bust" state of gearing. People are going multiple lock outs without getting a piece/new piece to drop for them while filling out their vault M+'s with no drops.

[@aztaclalz]

It seems as if this system is great for streamers (That has WoW as a job and can sink massive of hours) or just people with a ton of time to gear stuff up. BFA and Legion throwing worthless gear was not good - but I feel something between what we have now and then would've been a sweet spot. Also, a VERY annoying thing. The catch up for PvP? The Conquest. Why the hell do they increase the cap but you can only get the shitty first day of the win (Unless you find a partner for ranked) ? As if people will sit and farm normal BG's for 8 conquest a win? I mean they might but come on?

[@DarkHatchet55]

@@aztaclalz BGs are not 8 conquest per win wtf you talking about

[@aztaclalz]

@@DarkHatchet55 After the first daily win, yes they are. Epic bgs are 15 after the first daily win.

[@DarkHatchet55]

@@aztaclalz No that's just flat out wrong.

[@aztaclalz]

@@DarkHatchet55 No idea why you're deciding to die on this hill. Legit login, do a daily win in a BG and tell me what the wins reward in conquest after the first. I'll wait 🙂

[@DraphEnjoyer]

I opened my vault today which was giving me 3 pieces CN gear and all 3 pieces were gear i already had equipped. Cool game

[@kai-xuanyao4666]

Raid vault is shit tbh since it's the same ilvl as the raid you did. But then again raid never had a weekly chest in the past so better than nothing I guess.

[@roberthansson8222]

GG

[@thunder9236]

I had 3 pairs of pants, all below my ilvl.

[@MrMrTravman]

Same, all other 6 options were useless too. So I got some extra stygia. Yay??

[@omarcomming722]

17:40 we're definitively playing different games mate

[@uniqueflowsnake]

21:05, i don't understand this point. for my alts, the crafting gear have been a boon to get into heroic dungeons and get them ready to do keys with guildies. Afterall we did keys in 151 overall ilvl when the exp hit. *shrug

[@Catjamfan]

Ofc. If you have a group of people to play with that you like; the game is a lot easier and more fun. Try finding that when all your friends moved horde or quit playing, and you aint a leftie so you dont enjoy the very leftist guild talk that happens daily in "normal" guilds on an rp server. Yeah, its in the shitter and yeah I could just move server or switch to horde, If I pay out of my nose for it for all my chars. Or I choose loosing 16 years of unobtainable titles or items and have to regrind reps cause Rerolling.

[@uniqueflowsnake]

@@Catjamfan crafting gear+covenant qline armor should get you high enough to start pugging keys tho yeah? Takes a bit longer with the anima for sure, but I don't perceive there being a huge cap in the gearing pipeline. The fun part is a whole seperate issue. You can get gear but the game is certainly less fun without friends.

[@jaklawrence4301]

Do you guys remember yonks ago when you used to get badges from dungeons, and you could go and buy a few bits to help you out from a vendor which helped to off-set a naff drop rate and big loot tables? Like, what was wrong with that as a system - it can be tuned so it's not too much and it at least feels like you're working towards something with each run - not just getting 35 anima for 30 minutes mob grinding. Tbh that's basically how PvP gear is working right now... basically how Wotlk badge gear worked just with an additional upgrade system to facilitate rankings.

[@GlitchBomb]

Cause back then there was no Mythic plus, Weekly chests, World Quests as a gearing system. But Shadowlands gearing system nerfs is so bad.

[@violetbliss4399]

One of my probs with m+ is that the runs themselves are not designed to use the design for fun, but intrinsically you try to skip as much as possible, take shortcuts, cull the aspects that could be fun for efficiency. Not saying that's wrong right now or anything, but it makes it really hard to just go for fun or help people out. I mean, there aren't even any drops or extra things that can drop from the trash, it's only the end chest, so not even drops are exciting that way. It's also ironic that the design for pvp IS preserving the fun aspect of the mode, in multiple varieties and not just the one type m+ has.

[@danielbeales2235]

Mythics need to drop a separate currency with an upgrading option like the covenant armour or pvp. Gives insentive to run multiples even without the gear drops as a priority.

[@ganstaeddie7]

Or just bring back titanforging.

[@danielbeales2235]

@@ganstaeddie7 Titanforging should have been limited to a (15ilv from base) boost and then the system would have been fine. It being unlimited made it ridiculous.

[@ganstaeddie7]

@@danielbeales2235 Agreed. although I was fine with it being either of those ways.

[@SalvLav]

@@ganstaeddie7 Hell no. Also titanforging had nothing inherently to do with Blizzard deciding to reduce loot drops, the fuck? There is no reason why a lack of titanforging means Blizzard MUST reduce loot drops, that is a game design choice, not an inherent part of the package.

[@ganstaeddie7]

@@SalvLav Are you confused? titanforging = endless grind = subscriptions. Low chance for gear to drop = takes forever to get completed character = subscriptions. That is what the entire debate is about. It is people like you that don't understand WHY they develop systems in the first place that ruin the game by complaining about it. They introduced titanforging in the first place to keep people playing/progressing beyond getting every piece bis...

[@rci-tf2zc]

3 words on the whole gear mess (mau) monthly active user.

[@zendiime]

This mau going to unsub because there isnt shit to do. spam mythic all night and get anima... they need a better strat

[@HRTtwitch]

If they don't want Torghast to die a death in the next few weeks, make twisting corridors drop a currency that can be spent Heroic ilvl loot and give it a weekly cap or add it as a new row to the vault. This'll give people who only PvE another route to gear of a reasonable ilvl, especially when raid loot drop is low and m+ can be a pain to get groups for. Everyone is doing torghast for the leggo upgrades anyway and its fun when you get a good set of powers. It won't be as good as raiding or PvP and it won't be as disappointing as having to run a load of m+ for maybe a scrap of loot.

[@amyvertacnik281]

Hi Preach! I'm a Deaf fan who loves wow and loves your content.

[@Diettoxin]

I genuinely dont remember the last upgrade that wasnt from the vault lol

[@joelwillis2043]

sire weapon for me

[@eXpr3s]

Last 4 weeks i have prolly gained like 100 dps worth of uppgrades 🤣

[@arod077]

exactly. I mean did you hear what he said. Took me a week to level my monk but i did 57 mythic plus. HOLY SHIT MAN. 57 that is crazy.

[@eXpr3s]

@@arod077 last week i did 40 keys, this week i did 30 and i killed 10 hc and 1 mythic boss. Al keys have been 14-17 al i have gained this week is maby 1 ilvl

[@eXpr3s]

@@arod077 bare in mind i am only palying on one caracter and i can barely gear that caracter, feels a bit like warlords of dreanor where you literaly cant get any gear and its not rewarding. The loot has been brought down so low that you literaly dont get anything for maximum effort, i can se alotof people stoping playing shadowlands becaus its the least rewarding expansion in years

[@WhiteCrit]

PVP is definitely a strong gearing option, but it does have at least one issue that becomes non-existent this week. From something like renown 10 to 22, your unrated pvp gear is stuck at 184. And your conquest gear is capped by 550 points per week and RNG from the vault. So for the past little bit, we've had to go into PVE content to try and upgrade those slots. As an Hpala, with secondary stats being completely different between pve and pvp environments, it was a struggle to even do M8s. Even doing those, it still felt like doing M+ weren't worth the effort, so we stuck with our 184 pieces. Now, with renown 22, we can upgrade our 184 pieces to 197, so it feels a bit better.

[@mohlol2456]

I mean, haste/vers is really good for Hpal in m+ and i believe you can get that with your honor pvp gear aswell as your conquest pvp gear that is 200ilvl just by completing weekly quests. I dont want to be rude but its not a gearing issue if you cant barely time a +8. Even with bad secondary stats, a mixture of great vault, honor pvp stuff and conquest pvp stuff should be enough. You should always value the higher ilvl in this expansion anyway

[@WhiteCrit]

@@mohlol2456 Nah you're not being rude. I'm fully aware I'm not the best M+ player and a +8 should be relatively easy at my ilvl. The issue that I'm really just referring to is there was a gap/soft wall in being able to increase pvp ilvl past M0 level if you get unlucky with the vault. PVP gearing being very powerful is true, but it's also not grossly overpowered is my point. Paladin specifically, haste/vers are optimal M+ stats, but virtually every piece you run in pvp is vers/crit, which I believe is #2 and 4 priority for M+ Hpala. Not having a good amount of haste made those runs kinda sads lol. Last acknowledgment, the issue I'm referring to is 100% a non-issue now since our renown cap lets us upgrade 197. It was only an issue in the weeks leading up to renown 22 where we regularly queued against teams who were 20-30 ilvls above us because they came from a pve environment. The M+ issue is a bigger one because it's going to be an issue forever unless the system gets tuned.

[@brendanhart517]

My vault has given me the same thing I'm wearing two weeks running now

[@DaKdawg]

same. I'm sitting on 171 weapons and 177 legs...guess I'll just pvp then? Sigh...

[@fredmyers503]

I have a gearing question @preach gaming do you strickly take the highest dps increase from the GV or if a BIS item is available do you take it. Example I have 184 chest still I get offered a BIS trinket but the chest I am offerd is a bigger increase should i play the long game and get the trinket, or go with the chest since it is best now?

[@HRTtwitch]

Take the biggest DPS increase. I open my vault every week, copy the simcraft string from in game and sim top gear on raidbots and take whatever choice is best.

[@Catjamfan]

Yes answer is always "go to third party site". Its.... really bad.

[@sazulo57]

Totally dropped the mm+, and just going to torghast even if I already have done it just to see the next broken combo I get. Honestly, more fun for me than the rest.

[@steveyoung3044]

I wonder what is going to happen in 4 months when gear gets reset.

[@eXpr3s]

When ypu have to start gearing again and u havent even gotten remotely close to top gear for this season and u will start looting items that are 30-50 ilvl higher even tho ur clearing hc and doing mythic and doing 20 or so m+15 every week and still barely get past 215 ilvl 🤣🤣🤣

[@Scarebruh]

4 months? LOL. Try July.

[@ChewyHands]

This is the best thing about the M+ changes cos I hate nothing more than running the same M+ dungeons for the exact same gear with a bigger number, now that m+ hardly ever drops loot I don't feel obligated to run that circular treadmill.

[@DarkHatchet55]

@@eXpr3s Thats the problem right there. Content patches shouldnt be considered seasons.

[@Zzues]

Yeah, that's 4 months away, a long time for people who play the game everyday for an hour or two. Just do your m+ for all three vault slots and be done for the week.

[@eliaspatrikis1926]

WIth the response to the new PVP gearing system I wouldnt be opposed to a return of the Justice/Valor point system for PVE.

[@AgentSpiff5]

Fury warrior main, has been really struggling getting gear above 190. Class so gimped this expansion that getting into mythics is impossible. Crafting is horrible, forcing people to craft 15 of a white item that you cant use for anything except selling it is terrible design.

[@Sargaxiist2022]

Side effect? I stopped playing. I have aotc and I quit. No reason to play. We got aotc with half the group at ilvl 202ish. Because everything we do was not rewarded. I sure do love spending HOURS in multiple high keys and getting 35 anima

[@The7thgeist]

On the note of bosses being shorter - my guild had only done one night of H Denathrius prog, and the next we came in we went from trying to beat the dps check in Phase 1 to literally having to hold everything in order to not phase it too quick - we were pushing him down to 70% before the second Ravage was going out.

[@darkdemon653]

Covenant gear is up to 197 this week. So for people who can actually stomach doing the campaign quests, it's a good way to catch up (at least for ilvl).

[@Lmwpitt]

I agree. i.lvls feel like upgrade and low drop rates are appreciated. I wish we could target gear in the GV though, by it factoring in which dungeons you completed. And have a way to upgrade items over time.

[@hookshot320]

It's probably just me, but I've found it extremely hard to enjoy this xpac. I've gotten 3 chars to 60 now and I can't seem to enjoy anything at 60. I haven't even unlocked torghast because I just can't find the motivation to go do it. I'm really not sure why I feel that way, I never have felt this way in my entire wow career of ~14 years. I know that the dungeons I've done while leveling 50-60 and even the couple of normals I've done at 60 feel so disappointing and pointless because I literally never get any loot. I feel like I get more loot in classic, tbh, which is probably not true, but it feels that way. I just can't seem to get into this xpac, as badly as I want to. :( Edit: also wanted to add that I feel kinda alienated with the above opinion, seems like no one else has the same issue as me. Which is quite lonely lmao.

[@Catjamfan]

Im an old veteran - played 16 years. Most of it with good or higher players. Those players quit or went horde. Im now stuck on alliance rp server where my guild choices are; Hardcore as hell people Or Leftist propaganda people Or pay out of my nose for a faction change for my toons so I do not loose all my unobtainable titles and items..... Im not having fun either. Its frustrating to see bad players get praised when they tunnel their way to high numbers while not helping CC or prevent deaths at all. I unlocked torghast - and I am already done with twisting corridors layer 8 so I got my mount there... So I have no reason to keep playing systemlands atm... Feels unrewarding and like I am forced to play with either extreme level players again or people that make me want to hurl and pull out my hair.

[@happyslappersrus]

I have a 197 Hunter as my main and I can't get into any M+ other than a 5. I don't have a guild to help so I guess I'm just stuck here.

[@ByFee]

208 Ret, cant get into anything above an 8

[@maddy02_]

I healed an 17 nw with 209 ilvl

[@Catjamfan]

@@maddy02_ ok? Context being friends?

[@TheQwaser13]

as a prot pally, those are THE WORST trash packs in the expac yes they do need to kite 3:00-4:15

[@lamenteinvertita]

By far the worst. Not even DOS trash is as bad as those 4 assholes. Prot here too and for that part i use the bubble talent bc fuck that shit, i'm not dealing with that crap

[@KogaSagara]

me struggleing to get in a 7 with 203 IL, fin: ti was too difuclt to gear up ( has even better gear) elitism(?), as a feed back how the hell if you dont have friends to pass from a 7? srly all bragging with 14s 15s and every time is a pain to get at least 4 and aiming to a higher on the first one or a useless will be set in the weekly chest!

[@joshuagarner1654]

Make friends

[@KogaSagara]

@@joshuagarner1654 not for everyone is that easy, "git gud", i have huge problems meeting someone, even if i try to be kind to everyone as a rule of life its so meancing, fear if you will to meet new people. "make friends" is not an answer or at least a useful one more in this fuck up era

[@maddy02_]

You're trying to do group content completely alone? Get friends. Get together with people on your level and play with them.

[@rasm745e]

We only have the gearing problem because all three types of content esentially uses the same gear. They need to seperate PvP, m+ and raiding into three branches of end game content, that all has different stats and effects that benefit you in that type of content the gear is obtained from. It will make gearing so much more interesting (if they do it right), and it will eliminate the issues with gearing we're seeing at this point.

[@trulsrohk470]

I'm really feeling that gear wall that you mentioned being at 200 ilvl atm. No one in the guild wants to touch 10-12 keys and trying to get into pugs as a rogue is awful unless you have stupid io scores. I'd actually love to see you both come out with class guides now that everything is relatively stable, and maybe add to that how your ui can be adjusted to help you play better :)

[@madsboandersen5316]

An easy fix to M+ would be currency system structured like the Conquest and honor system. Could be a justice/valor system. Like you gain justice points for playing any dungeon, anytime, no cap, and you can buy some basic starter gear with it and use it to upgrade items and maybe some cosmetics. And then valor points has a weekly cap, and you can use it to buy end game items that then scales through upgrades based on what high m+ dungeons you've done. This way the system can grow and more people will be encouraged to try harder m+s and this aspect of the game can get access to 233 weapons, too. It won't add too much additional gear too fast, it will have a cap to keep the gearing pace steady and equal to other asspects of the game and with the same level of difficulty involved.

[@mshea093]

This week brought Covenant gear up to 197, and pvp gear up to 200, will muddle the water around a 200gs, but should allow you to get jump into 7+ keys for new players/alts who haven't yet.

[@zeveroarerules]

Getting stuff to drop... That's so very wow 15 years ago :) Then again, back then I was also playing a druid and I was completely geared in 1 run of MC.

[@elbardo_lux]

8:11 either I don't understand what you mean or you don't understand how the great vault works, so what did you mean by needing to do another dungeon for a choise at the great vault?

[@nagynorbie]

13s have shit rewards, it's definitely you that doesn't understand how the vault works, not Preach (lol).

[@Liambunu]

If you do 3 plus 15s and a plus 13 the 4 m+ vault reward will be a 13 not 15 so it's a wasteof time he can't get anything from a 13

[@elbardo_lux]

@@nagynorbie nice comment

[@elbardo_lux]

@@Liambunu that's only valid if you only have time for 1, 4 or 10 dungeons a week, which unless I've missed it it's not what he's talking about. If you can do any other number of +15, doing a +13 won't affect your great vault at all.

[@SirSnoozebutton]

I'm a mid tier player, currently doing keys in the 12-13 range. Most players in my group are around 205ilv, except one guy who is actually good at PvP so he is 10ilv ahead of us. Outside of weekly vault there is barely anything to do slowly bump up the itemlevels. Targeting dungeons for drops is not an option because I can't expect 4 others to go somewhere where they can't get upgrades, just so I can maybe get that ring or pair of boots I need. I did a bit of PvP for some off-pieces, but I don't enjoy arenas or BGs that much. So this really just leave the major part of progression locked behind weekly vault. Once your character has full 200+ gear, you hit a wall unless you do all content on the very highest level every week. And just like you said in the video, with the current system you are discouraged from helping friends do lower keys since that time could have been spent increasing your weekly vault options. If there was a system similar to PvP vendors and upgrading with conquest, at least you would get something for doing a low key.

[@charlielegge113]

Ulduar was massively overlooked by Blizz. It could be done by any alt above 30, was easily doable with a leader that knew what to do (meaning make your own groups) AND dropped 200 ilvl gear regardless of your level. My monk was level 40something and had NINE pieces of 200 ilvl gear to equip once 60. I went to 180 just due to Ulduar and boes.

[@jazzdomi4364]

What if you could choose between a few options on your "weekly" box. For instance: 2 Dungeons, 1 day reset, lfr ilvl 4 Dungeons, 3 days reset, normal ilvl 7 Dungeons, 5 days reset, heroic ilvl 10 Dungeons, 7days reset, mythic ilvl

[@bdwithey]

Maybe you guys can help, because I've been feeling really stuck as well in regards to my gearing. Im an ilvl 205 Ret paladin main with (I think) around a 600 raider.io with no real way to improve either of those outside of the once-a-week heroic raid my guild is trying to progress (currently 4/10). But I just cannot seem to get invited to mythic+ groups for whatever reason. Even dungeons that provide no increase in any slot on my character; I was getting denied to mythic 5's which I was hoping to use to round out my 10 dungeons last week for the extra loot option on the great vault. Is melee really that bad right now? It seems like paladins are middle of the road dps-wise and I pull solid numbers during our guild raids, just not sure why NO invites come in for like a mythic 7-9 range.

[@Kronos_88]

Wow it's like you're writing from my perspective. I'm a 205/206 Ret Pala who is having the exact same problem. I have timed every dungeon on +8/+9, generally top DPS overall, have run most of them several times, and yet I'm getting declined for +6/+7's which I don't even need but just want to run since it's pretty easy now. My guild is at 3/10 HC right now. It's crazy honestly. Ret Pala is in a really bad spot right now, our utility is not good enough to justify bringing slightly lower DPS. And I can already tell you it's going to stay that way for months, if not the entire expansion.

[@mohlol2456]

Build your own keys and make friends with people you linked to run with. It will always be the most reliable way to get higher in keys and get invited when your spec isnt FOTM. It will also make you understand the problem better: you'll have a ton of dps who applies and the only way you have to reduce the chance that the player isnt going to fail the key is by taking people that have an IO around or above yours and by taking a class that deals a lot of dmg or have a BL. Also, the only advantage a melee have over a range is that it can interrupts way more but we all knows interrups fails a lot in PUGS. This + having to run dungeons like Sanguins Depths, well you take less melees for sure.

[@wolfshanze5980]

I did my 10 Mythic + last week so I could have 3 choices... my two best pieces of gear on my toon are shoulders and cloak... so anything other than shoulders or cloak from the vault and its an upgrade! What were my three choices from the vault this week? Shoulders/Cloak/Shoulders

[@BadgerGirl]

I've jacked wow in over the loot thing, nothing feels worth my time. a very passionate part of the community seemed hell-bent on making retail more like classic, and i simply don't care enough any more to fight it, so ill leave them to it, there's plenty other games to fill my free time.

[@dilloncarroll7487]

Do you think you could do a m+ dungeon and explain your decision making during the dungeon? I feel like there's a ton of bosses with weird intermission/ immune phases this expansion with odd timings, and I cant quite get my head around the decision making process for instances like that. Very frustrating.

[@ExtremHappyMeal]

Holla Preacher, i dont have a question regarding m+ but i have heard of several occasions of people being stuck on renown level that cant get renown to drop in activities. Im currently 15 dungeons deep into renown 10 and didnt have one renown drop, theres no campaign to do or any quests so i thought i would look up if people had the same issue and behold. I only found one bluepost that said "well its random lol just do dungeons lmao". I swapped covs on my pala and i dont have the nerve to farm another 100 dungeons just to catch up. Wondering if you made any experience with the catch up mechanisms or have some tips for me and some others what to do to get forward faster.

[@rossboisvert6288]

Preach your situation happened to me hunter to dk started the second week. Got stuck at 200 ilvl still have a 184 helm and ring. I can’t really no life the game and do 50 mythic plus a week. Yesterday got lucky in vault with a 226 weapon with leech.

[@GriffinLKVW]

Came for the thumbnail, stayed for the content

[@jpblopes]

a lil late but, PROPER new intro and logo, mate!

[@HOCScott]

The biggest problem I've had this expansion is finding a guild or group of people to do content with. I'm living the pug life and dude, it sucks. I've tried looking on the WoW forums and joining guilds but the guilds that actually do M+ content have their own cliques and it's really difficult to get into em. I'd be totally willing to reroll on a lot of different specs / classes if that's what it took but I dunno what to do. Any advice?

[@maddy02_]

Keep looking

[@bryphost]

Love these TDP vids keep em coming!

[@ItsMySpaceship]

lol that last pride. tank didnt move a step, preach walks into the bolt 'fking sniper!'

[@oOtommyO0]

HEY! What is that circle reticle thing Fin is using!?! Looks fricken awesome

[@TheMisleduser]

I miss when you could be mostly done with dungeons until they released a new one. M+ just seem to mandatory now if you are not good at rated pvp. When are the tier sets coming?

[@relyks8645]

Yeah, I miss the old days where you eventually graduated from dungeons and moved on to raiding and that was your only weekly responsibility. I can't wait until TBC most likely comes out.

[@mohlol2456]

??? M+ isnt mandatory. If you want just want to raid, just do that. M+ doesnt give a better item lvl that heroic raid anyway so i dont know what you guys are talking about. Unless in the great vault and here you dont even have to time the key to have a good item. I dont get people that miss then the game had less content, it doesnt make sense

[@OakenTome]

I’ve been gearing via Normal Castle Nathria on my Boomkin, and I’m at ilvl 197. I don’t like much Mythic+ for a variety of reasons, so I don’t log on much outside of raid days, even though I completely no-lifed the game for the first two weeks. As of right now I’m simply going for a full set of raid gear. I’m most of the way there, with all but three, of the visible armour pieces (missing head off Denathrius, legs off Destroyer, and boots off Council, though I already have legendary boots anyways). I’ve also got the off-hand from SLG and the necklace off Huntsman thanks to the vault, so all I need to replace are my main-hand, pants, trinkets, and rings. Replacing those is going to be a right pain in the ass because 4 out of those 6 pieces drop off Denathrius. The grind from 190 to 200 is a long one. Because we’ve finally managed to down Denathrius on Normal, I should 3 slots from the raid open in my vault per week. I’ve gotten a lot of my current pieces from there, so it’s definitely been the best source of gear for me.

[@butterflysrage]

I wish they would use Torghast for that "casual pve player gear path" that you mentioned for players who can't do 10 m+'s a week. It scales, it's fun, it can be done in groups or solo, the only thing it doesn't do is scale hard enough.

[@69y5jd]

I like Mr. Fingle aka. Finn's UI. Is it possible to get it somewhere?

[@marcusolsen7985]

Renown Covenant gear allows you to buy 190, still stuck between 195-205 buts its really nice for alts

[@Ozrichead]

I looked at my raider.io score and it's 127. I have been thinking about maybe doing some more M+ for a chance to get gear. Which level of M+ is appropriate to do? I have 209 ilvl.

[@tylerwake5574]

You can pretty much do any long as you know mechanics

[@dolan3989]

With such a low IO you'll likely get declined to anything above a 10 because you lack experience. So even though you have 209 ilvl, unless you have a group, you'll never get into a +10 with such a low score, since it'll be assumed you don't understand mechanics. If you had everything timed on a 10, I'd say 12's and 13's should be a good starting point, and then push into 14's and 15's but you'll be about 2-3 weeks behind the PUG curve

[@tahroo4262]

At your IO score? You'd be looking at needing to do all the +2s you haven't completed to at least make your score visible in game the next day. Until you hit 200, you have no visible score in the addon. Might be able to squeeze into a 3 or 4 if someone has the addon setup for a more live data stream off the app. But either way, until that score is up.. you'd be lucky to get anything in your ilvl range without a guild/friends.

[@mohlol2456]

209 ilvl so all your parts must be 200+ i guess. M+10 give 203 ilvl at the end of dungeon but with your IO, no one will invite you in those because you lack experience. Grind you way up or build your own keys

[@Netsuko]

I really wish that playing melee would be less of a punishment this expansion. It feels like there is SO much stuff that makes playing a melee just a total nightmare compared to literally any ranged spec. Especially if we have specs like hunter in the game, which doesn't even have the penalty of having to stand still to cast most of the time. It's literally all the good things of melee and none of the downsides of a caster. I guess I'm just a little salty. But really, with the amount of stuff on the ground that almost insta-kills you and debuffs around your char that force you to stay away from others makes it so much worse.

[@joelwillis2043]

boomers play melee

[@darthruneis]

Vault feels useless when I only have a few hours a week to play now that vacation is over. I often can't even get to a single threshold for one, let alone 9. It'd be cool I guess if it would go across weeks until you at least get something.

[@darthruneis]

@@dirtyswampman Wasn't really complaining per se, the video did ask for what it feels like to those of us who don't have a commited schedule they follow. I may have been conflating the Raid numbers with the M+ one in my original comment (as in, 4/7/10 for raid bosses, 1/4/...7? for M+).

[@stenly97]

Heaving missed the first couple of days of Shadowlands because of work and then not getting gear for the next 2 weeks from m+ (the only piece i got was dropped to the healer in the group who gave it to me) I had to craft my lego to at least enter the raid at 170 ilvl. I still have no luck with drops and after farming plaguefall for my bis conduit (infernal cascade is a must for fire these days) i got the 184 ilvl version from a world quest from all places... I really like that im excited to get gear again. .but also as someone who maybe does 4-5 dungeons a week its been such a struggle (as not much gear drops from the raid (heroic) also). Now i feel like I've hit a soft cap on loot. I'm 205 at the moment and apart from the raid we do (we raid heroic) i cant find anything i can do to get some more gear that is actually worth it...

[@LaterShortDerum]

What is the addon setup Fin is using for party and target health frames? Please help

[@KlaatuZu]

Blizz could keep gear feeling significant but allowing people to do lower keys, maybe only having higher keys count towards the G. Vault.

[@niddan1337]

Stopped doing M+, I'm a full time PvPer now lol... 1600 and rising

[@lukisek222]

The gearing was is really weird for my blood dk alt. I had a plenty anima, a lot of renown from Threads of Fate and catchup mechanism. I almost finished the covenant campaign and since I upgraded my covenant gear, my ilvl is close to 190, while only running few normal dungeons while exping. And suddenly, even M0 and LFR doesn't offer ilvl upgrades. This kinda sucks. I used these two to learn the layout of dungeons and feel of the bosses. But since they do not offer any ilvl upgrade, even potential titanforge upgrade, I do not feel like running them. And on the other hand, I am not confident enough with the mechanics and my ilvl to run M+ and pug normal raid. It seems weird complaining about free gear like this, but the way the item levels are set, it creates a weird incentive to not run lower levels of content at all.

[@adufresne1]

As someone who quit around 8.2, moved to classic, and just came back for 9.0, I'm not really feeling the low amount of gear tbh. I'm totally used to not getting much gear week to week, but I definitely remember getting more in the past for sure. Like many others have said here, and everywhere else, I really think they should implement a valor token type system for m+ or even raiding. Feels like the pve side of the game needs some bad luck protection via a currency system or another means.

[@ChrisForPrescott]

Any tips for finding a group to m+ with? I’m in a raiding guild but they have pretty predefined m+ groups. Putting as a warlock has been a struggle, partly because I don’t have a ton of time to sit in queues. I’m 210 ilvl so not completely terrible but I’ve just been having a hard time finding groups.

[@maddy02_]

Add people, make your own groups

[@sparkysparkyboomman761]

Where does preach and his guild mates go to find out what they're best in slot items are? New to try harding plz teach me :)

[@slykeren8371]

its kind of insane how a 14 drops 207 gear which is the same as upgraded pvp gear, and you need like 215+ to do 14-15s

[@xRichhhx]

Lol. You do not need 215+ ilvl for 14s -15s. I hate how bad players keep setting that ilvl bar higher while they've been hardstuck at 7s for 3 weeks... as if ilvl is THE obstacle to completing a higher key. They can be done around 207~ ilvl if you're not playing an absolute meme spec like survival or sin rogue.

[@slykeren8371]

@@xRichhhx at least you'll never get into a pug. It's doable yes

[@xRichhhx]

@@slykeren8371 I've pugged my way to +16s a Shadow Priest, sure it's hard but if you just keep applying its no problem

[@BenJonesart]

I wish they would have added "upgrade tokens" as dungeon or vault loot so you can gain a couple Ilvls on an item as a possibility and a mechanic to get specific items along the lines if i run this dungeon 5+ during the week i have a higher chance of an item from that dungeon to show up in my vault.

[@joobin1049]

i really liked legion system were there was huge amount of loot but the ones with right stats where something else . having your damage go up because you have more haste mastery or crit is way more fun than base main stat . i really want to go back to the times when i sniped crit stat on frost mage or mastery on assassination or haste on shadow .

[@Krillol]

Those mobs in the start of the dungeon that grows big and leeches hp deal truck ton of magic dmg. For me as a prot pala if I do not have GoAK ready for their DoT I will kite them. Especially on a fortified week.

[@nero2zero1]

Honest question, should i re roll if i wanna do higher keys if i main a kyrian rogue?

[@Vaunne]

I see no reason to do m+ when i easily can get 220 gear from arenas

[@Cashinn_Outt1754]

Conquest is capped at 5 a week so that’s 3 weeks for one weapon.

[@ChickenSoupMusic]

@@Cashinn_Outt1754 550 a week or so but you can catch up on missed conquest from previous weeks.

[@pobopower]

Id rather get ebola irl tho than spend a fucking second in arena

[@PassionPossum]

@@pobopower Arena is a lot easier than you make it sound.

[@Varichan]

@@PassionPossum its not about easy or difficult,. but the quality of the experience and wow pvp is probably one of the most attrocious experiences i can imagine

[@Jackomack]

I have had the worst luck when it comes to weapon drops. I am still wearing the two weapons I got during the Mythic 0 weeks everything else I'm wearing is around item level 213 or higher

[@ValtheJean]

I really appreciate that Preach is conscious of casual players, because it is a real slog right now. My guild is super casual, but I managed to convince people to do M+ with me in BfA. It wasn't anything laudable, like I think our best was an 8 or a 9 or something. In SL? Nope. I can't even convince them to run 2's. They don't see it worth their investment of time. The game feels extremely unrewarding, and they don't want to go into a dungeon with the very likely outcome of not getting gear.

[@AdrasAdraki]

Oh man the new intro is sick.

[@namelessjoe27]

@Preach what if loot from dungeons was doubled, ilvl was just as hard to increase, but the stat variation of items was more random to compensate. could be fun to create custom or experimental sets? just a thought, love the commentary, thanks!

[@cweston9440]

Playing a game for fun? What a strange concept

[@robinpettersson8456]

My biggest issue is that there is no protection against bad luck. during heroic ive gotten 2 items total from god know how many boss kills. its just demotivating after a while, especially when something drops and its on the one slot you have your legendary... you just know you are going 1.5 raid before seeing another itemdrop.

[@Fani777]

6:07 guess most of the damage comes from the +15 int enchant

[@Crkinghorn]

MW offspec :)

[@MALITH666]

Its good they nerfed gearing. But they kinda ended up nerfing too far. This would completely balance out if they introduced an upgrade system like pvp-gear/benthic for M+ or like how azerite currency system where you buy gear for some kind of token. Next patch definitely needs something like this.

[@abyysabyys]

I have to rebuke fin on his statement about raider.io, I'm at 699 on my disc priest with ilevel 211 gear and cannot get an invite to a 9 or a 10 mythic, I'm hard stuck at my raider.IO, gear obviously isn't my issue and I've had 209 for about 3 weeks now. My IO score is not high enough therefore I cannot get it higher, chicken and egg problem plus probably not a "meta" druid or shaman healer feels bad. Really regret not switching guilds at the start to one with players actively running lots of mythics to stay ahead of the curve.

[@Catjamfan]

At least you did not end up in a guild that makes it worse to log on. Every time I get on I see leftist chatter. Im reconsidering if its worth staying just to do content at all - or leave, try find the impossible guild that would fit me (my server is an rp one and full of the same type of people with loads of braindead behaviour). Or just quit. I cba with the timegates and lottogates combined with humans on this server and the cost for moving is insane... Rerolling would mean loosing unobtainable titles (not acc wide) and 16 years of progress.

[@Ozzyorcborne1]

Got fed up of getting anima, useless conduits or crap verse gear. I cant believe they could make the gearing worse than BFA.

[@deanfromhungary]

Are you r? Its way way way better than BfA, you clearly haven't spent enough time in BfA. You get gear that matters and no more bullshit forgings

[@sr7olsniper]

@@deanfromhungary that is now saying much when they are both garbage. Doing multiple m+s and not getting ANYTHING is a disgrace.

[@deanfromhungary]

@@sr7olsniper good! Finally content is hard, We are not one shooting HC raid on first day. Me and my guildies are doing m+ for the challenge and not for the loot, which feels so much better than in BfA

[@Ozzyorcborne1]

@@deanfromhungary I played BfA from launch all the way till the end. If calling conduits, anima and sidegrades are considered "gear that matters" then yeah, I'm really rolling in it.

[@deanfromhungary]

@@Ozzyorcborne1 you were talking about gearing generally. I don't mind conduits and anima, it's nowhere near as bad as the azerite necklace was. Gearing generally is great. You log in, do your few runs and you're good for the week. No more 10 or 15 spawning for titan forging and bs like that. You can farm m+ for challenge and fun.

[@blueoutrider]

Hearing about these two journey on their alts makes me feel it's just their PoV and they aren't trying. My alt is 184 gear and gets into 6-8s easily. Both as feral and Boomy. My main is barely 204 and gets into 10-12s. I'm curious if their mains are getting into things easier because they have the gear and then they feel slanted on their alts when it has nothing to do with their alts. Edit: 3 alts that are all 180-195 geared with either sub 1 day played or one alt that has 2 days but has completed (and mostly timed) 11 keys.

[@max8m1]

I dunno man, maybe you're just lucky. I'm a boomie main at 209 ilvl and 1060 score and I can't pug anything above +12 if I'm not willing to sit afk in my covenant hall for an hour only to then deplete a 14 in a shitty pug group. Playing with randoms has been absolute misery for me

[@TheMrsmartiekid]

Im not buying this.. anyone i know and myself included struggled to get into anything above a 6 as 190 or under, nothing fun about applying for groups for 20-30 mintues just to get into a dungeon that offers weak loot and i know for sure nothing other than a MM, Fire mage, Boomy or Resto sham is getting into a 10-12 with 204