Faith, History, and Te Tiriti: Why It Matters Today

[@funnytilltheresblood]

This man is in error. After 2:40 he mentions gospel being woven in. Herein lies the issue. The gospel shouldn’t be woven in. It should be pure and primary, culture and race secondary. Learn about the dangers of syncretism!

[@hezeli4511]

Kapai my brother, that's right. Kingdom culture over culture of the flesh

[@stevekeeley39]

Yes!🙏

[@jayyyyyyeeeeee]

💯💯💯

[@teriinimclean6222]

Kingdom culture is spiritually woven into all indigenous culture just like a harakeke. Ko Ihu Karaiti Te kīngi nui mā taku māoritanga e whakamoemiti Te Ariki nui a Ihu Karaiti

[@teriinimclean6222]

Our tipuna were converted based on the gospel however this generation of Māori such as myself has come to a deeper understanding that our God given culture 'māori' has a deeper connection to us as Māori who love Yeshua Te kīngi nui

[@kennoble9456]

New Zealand was built on the Gospel and Maori embraced it we told so many lies in NZ now

[@jm9044]

💯 agree! we have to remember the Same Bible we read today is the same Bible our forbears read too. Go to the Word and see why they wrote the treaty, what they read, and what they got saved out of

[@TawhaiSinclair]

The fact that that many people especially Māori protested and there was no violence is somewhat a miracle. I feel there is something deeper at play here and that NZ is fed up with the way this country is being run. I think this was God intervention, Not only for Maori for but all of NZ.

[@TimE-er1kn]

There wasn't no violence, there certainly wasn't very much. But there were videos of X from Masterton where their was so violence towards someone holding a New Zealand flag. But in Wellington as far as I know there was no violence.

[@TawhaiSinclair]

@@TimE-er1kn I'm specifically talking of the Protest in wellington 20/11/24. With over 40 thousand people in attendance especially Maori it was a miracle there was no violence.

[@TawhaiSinclair]

@@TimE-er1kn And that incident in Masterton was not violence from the protesters but rather from the polices end.

[@TimE-er1kn]

@@TawhaiSinclair agree with you.

[@TimE-er1kn]

@@TawhaiSinclair the incident in Masterton with the videos I saw there was violence from some protestors towards another Māori individual in a man up tee shirt waving a New Zealand flag. He was assaults and had a flag taken off him. I have not seen the moment where he was arrested.

[@petervaneeden3651]

Link source Human Rights Commission: [ Although there are areas of disagreement between the English and Māori texts of the Treaty, there are important areas where the texts do agree. Article 1 is essentially about the Crown, Article 2 is about rangatira, and Article 3 is about all citizens and residents (including Māori, Pākehā and other subsequent migrants). These Articles give each party both rights and responsibilities and invest them with the authority to act. These rights and responsibilities include: the rights and responsibilities of the Crown to govern (Article 1 - kāwanatanga/governance) the collective rights and responsibilities of Māori, as Indigenous people, to live as Māori and to protect and develop their taonga (Article 2 - rangatiratanga/ self-determination) the rights and responsibilities of equality and common citizenship for all New Zealanders (Article 3 - rite tahi/ equality).]

[@TimE-er1kn]

Some food for thought. The Treaty was signed between Māori chiefs (autocrats) and the Crown (autocrats). New Zealand was not a democracy then. The crown stopped having any influence over what happens in this nation over 120 years ago when New Zealand stopped being a domain of the British Empire and became an independent democracy. So can that treaty be compatible with a fair and free democracy. Labour and the Green want Co Governance as this is "partnership" in their view. However what that means in practise (with the implement that they were doing to do) is the end of this nation being a free and fair democracy because it would effectively give Māori a 58.8% vote in this nation. (Iwi would automatically get 50% say, which then means everyone else has 50%, but individual Māori will still be able to vote which at 17.6% of the population means that share of the remaining 50% would be around 8.8%. Then we have Te Pait Māori who just want separation full stop. I don't see how that is even possible (with the exception of say Tuhoe) because we are a small nation both in population and in size and Māori and Europeans are so integrated and assimilated into each other. I don't see how so many different tribes could have their own little kingdoms. Christians also need to get their head in the sands. If you look at the state of Christianity in this nation compared to say the 1980s our faith is being purged from our society. The left certainly want it gone from this nation (just look at the UK for the future of things in this nation). The vast majority of Māori who are pushing for this are not Christian and see Christianity as a threat to them and their culture are their see it as a colonial tool of oppression. And yes I know Maori were wrong and that is why there is a treaty settlement process to try and pay reparations for what happened in the 1800s. We as a nation need to start a fresh with a concrete constitution like the United States that guarantees peoples rights and equal treatment whilst still recognising Māori culture as the indigenous people of this nation. But what has happening in the 21st century has gone to far and that Maori people now have more rights than everyone else.

[@gilberthorne4192]

So all the illegally confiscated land, the land that should b returned according 2 pakeha law & the treaty, the Maori that were wrongfully put 2 death falsely accussed of crimes so pakeha cld steal their land, does that come under equality? According 2 pakeha law these grivences shld b addressed & settled. But as u knw most were swept under the carpet neva 2c the light of day! Compared 2 wot is actually there, the government didnt settle squat! More recently n Te Waipounamu we c the introduction of another bs law where Maori hav 2 prove they hav lived on the land n the area or on the foreshore 4 at least 150 yrs 2 hav any viable claim or ryts. Haha. Laws were put n place 2 steal our land, destroy our language & culture! Yor ryt. We need 2b unified. But dnt take away wot little we hav left under the guise of evry1 nds 2b treated equally. Maori nd 2b treated equally! We r meant 2b equal partners with equal say n the goverance of Aotearoa. Why? As u hav mentioned, because WE Maori r Tangata whenua. The indeginous people of this land who NEVER surrendered their sovreignty! Being treated equally does not mean Maori relinquish wot little rights we hav left 2 make the rest feel equal. A hell no!! God is the Creator of treaties, vows, Covenants, of honourable agreements. Do u believe the Crown, the government hav honoured the treaty? Yeah. I thort so.

[@erina4586]

Te Kani A Takirau (Maori Sovereign) Highest Authority in Maoriland Aotearoa-New Zealand. (Never Signed the Treaty of Waitangi) & Queen Victoria (British Sovereign) Q: Did she Sign the Treaty of Waitangi? 1840 Treaty of Waitangi Signed by; Some Maori Chiefs (Not all) & Some British Governers Now, some Pakeha's and MP's want to consider making NZ a Republic? Q: On what Authority do you have? If it be true, that both Paramount Ariki Chief and King Te Kani A Takirau and Queen Victoria both did not Sign the Treaty of Waitangi? Since when does an evil gentile system from British governors liars and thieve's decide what's best for 'The Land of the Long White Cloud.? Coming up to 2024, it's Time nothing but the TRUTH be told and everything tidied up in this nation. The NZFirst and Act Party's need to apologize to the Maori Nation for both Defamation of the Nation and using Deception by trying to throw the Maori Nation under the bus and trampling on the "MANA!" of the Natives of NZ. Then disqualify themselves and get out of Parliment and leave Prime Minister Chris Luxon to serve GOD and Aotearoa-New Zealand. God wants to sweep Aotearoa-New Zealand clean, so that means He wants no dividing walls. He wants UNITY (But not at the cost of robbing Maori Nation of Identity, Land, Natural Resources and Wealth, Unborn Babies, Youth dying by Suicides, Discrimination from Police against Maori - (Keep guns out of the hands of Racist Police Officers who hate Maori). There's more for conversation for moving forward positively. It Is Written; The Fear of GOD is the Beginning of WISDOM

[@serenasimpkin1946]

Arohanui Gilbert, Arohanui Erina ❤ Praying for peace for our people and this nation. Its a beautiful thing when we can walk side by side without prejudice just like Jesus saw no prejudice. My hope is for you to be built up, not torn down. This is our temporary home, until the return of the light of the world.

[@andyrogers2755]

A very sad reality is coming into this discussion. Even though our history is clear, Christianity and the ethics that form a Christian society had a huge impact on our past it appears not so much today. Rather, today, we see a nation that is largely becoming anti-Christian and in so many way is losing many of those fundermental principles that are hugely influenced by the principles of loving, caring, serving and helping our fellow man, no matter what ethnic origin we may be. At the same time, we see very strong, angry, and venomous rhetoric from the TePati Maori party, and surely, this is not what we normally expect to see from respected Maori eldership and leadership. As an average middle-aged European Kiwi, I as... does this really represent the thoughts of the greater Maori population? And where is any true and honourable statesmenship like or diplomacy coming from our halls of power. Then I see an almost threatening stance being shown with the Maori independent flags flaunted in some churches on a Sunday morni. A time which is separated for the sacred worship and honour of God, but has the effect of introducing feelings of insecurity for some of us in a place that should be the most sacred and secure places, a refuge for all mankind. This looks like a truly vulnerable situation to our democracy indeed. My thoughts are, if not handled, carefully this could threaten the stability of us as a nation. We can not re-write history if, in fact, wrongs have been made. But we need to take good care of how this journey and discussion plays out. We as a Christian church need to tread very carefully. Churches must not become a place of division and distention but rather that refuge where we can shelter a while and remember the hope and purpose that we all get to share this planet for a while. We must be seen as Salt & Light, the seasoning of a God of love, relationship, forgiveness, and hope. As a very multicultural society and church, let's strive to embrace each other with a careful understanding and pray for our leaders...ALL our leaders that through this journey, that the message of hope that is the gospel would bring us as a nation to a point and way for a peaceful and caring society together, no matter what our ethnicity or culture.... Pray

[@TimE-er1kn]

​@@gilberthorne4192 The treaty Principles Bill does not take Māori property rights or rights away that are already exist today under settled treaty of Waitangi tribunal. No one is taking those rights away. Of course there are still claims to be settled. The purpose of the bill is to ensure equality for everyone, whether you are Indian, Māori, Samoan, Nigerian, or Scottish. We are a very multiple cultural country now especially considered 30% of our population have only arrived here in the last 25 years (mainly from Asia). So that no one is denied something because of race. Right now are many Government services that should be based on economic need are instead based on race. My special needs children have been denied access to special education help from the Ministry of Education that they would have got if they were Māori. And this is actually not a new thing, 25 years ago when I was leaving school I choose not to go to University because of the financial barriers. My adopted sister didn't face those barriers because we is half Māori. So as a result she is significantly better off then me. The same situation exist in the Public health care system. My health hasn't been that well that great and so the GP would like me to have a colonoscopy to see if there are any cancer, however I am not allowed one because they are only available to Māori and Pacific Islanders. So the health system is saying their lives are more imported then mine. That used to be called racist. Those are the issues the bill is meant to address. What happened to Māori was terrible, it was horrible. The same as what happen to many indigenous peoples around the world when colonised. But this has been human history for all time, people are conquered and lose and replaced. It is human history. Things have to be view through the lense of the history of the time. It was God’s favour that Māori were colonised by the British in the mid 18th Century and not by another European power or in an earlier time, otherwise Māori probably wouldn’t even have a treaty settlement process and certainly wouldn’t make up almost around a 6th of the population instead not even more than a few percent points like many other indigenous people (American Indians in both South and North America and even Australia.) We in the 2nd part of the 20th century and now into 21st have a different view about right and wrong. Just look at how far Māori have come! But equality has been achieved. So I ask you, what do you think should happen? How can we go forward? You need to be a realist though. You need to think of the consequences. We are in a globalised economy and our survival depends on free market trade both within our nation and without. Without a free market economy (with sensible guard rail regulation) in a fair and free democracy where property right we cannot be a prosperous nation. If our nation is not prosperous everyone loses especially Māori. Just look overseas, there are plenty of bad examples out there. When Zimbabwe start confiscating all the white land owners farms it wasn’t just the white people escaping the country it was also many many black people, it also started the a famine as farming is actually a skilled trade and so the skill shortage couldn’t be replaced. The same thing is happening now in South Africa. So what do you think we should do? What is your solution? Genuinely interested.

[@webocoli]

Well strait from the start. The gentleman stated the partners to the treaty were Crown and Maori - wait a minute - should have said the Peoples of the Treaty were Crown and Maori. Two people groups brought together. As long as you go down that rabbit hole insisting on partnership it's futile . There the Maori ceded sovereignty to the Queen. One Nation - New Zealand

[@SeanusAurelius]

Lets start by looking at the word kawana and acknowledging that given the prominence of Pilate in the NT as an example of a governor, Maori understood that a governor had authority to impose laws on the local populace. Redefining terms to get away from the parts that you don't like is reneging, and organised Maoridom is guilty of this.

[@BigSnapper]

What a spinner. LOL! Nice try buddy.

[@BigSnapper]

Māori understood kāwana as limited settler governance, retaining their rangatiratanga. The Crown breached Te Tiriti, not Māori. Reinterpretation reflects justice, not "reneging."

[@djhemirukahemisphere8893]

Tell us how then if maori had rangatiritanga could they be governed ?

[@HTDSNZ]

@@BigSnapper No, Maori after 1970 understand it to mean limited, Maori before the 1970s understood it to mean sovereignty. We know from the speeches given by the chiefs on the 5th after being presented te tiriti that they understood kawanatanga to mean sovereignty. These speeches are Maori council/iwi evidence and are accepted by both sides so are unbiased and beyond reproach. The first to speak were against signing (many later changed their mind and signed anyway) and the rest were pro signing. We can see from these speeches what the chiefs knew te tiriti to say and mean regarding the ceding of sovereignty in te tiriti. These speeches prove the chiefs knew by signing they would become less than, lower than the queen and her governor even. They also show they knew they would be subject to the queen and her laws. These are not the words of men who thought te tiriti said they got to retain sovereignty or that they would be exempt from the queens rule or laws. This is Maori council/iwi evidence entered into court record by them, so not biased whitey evidence. They authenticated them as a true, full and correct translation of the words spoken by the chiefs that day. 1. Te Kemara, chief of the Ngatikawa: ......"If thou stayers as Governor, then, perhaps, Te Kemara will be judged and condemned. Yes indeed, and more than that - even hung by the neck. No, no, no: I shall never say yes to your staying. Were all to be on equality, then perhaps, Te Kemara would say "Yes", but for the Governor to be up and Te Kamara down - Governor high, up, up, up and Te Kamara down, low, small, a worm, a crawler - No, no, no." 2. Rewa, chief of the Ngaitawake tribe: "What do Natives want of a Governor? We are not whites, nor foreigners. This country is ours, but the land has gone, Nevertheless, we are the Governor - we, the Chiefs of this our father's land. I will not say Yes to the Governor’s remaining" 3. Kawiti, chief of the Ngatihine Tribe: "No, no. Go back. What dost thou want here? We Native men do not wish thee to stay. We do not want to be tied up and trodden down....... I, even I Kawiti, must not paddle this way, nor paddle that way because the Governor says No" 4. Hakiro (speaking on behalf of his chief): "I say, no, no, no. Go back, go back; Do not sit here. What wilst thou sit here for? We are not thy people. We are free. We will not have a Governor. Return. Leave us" 5. Tareha, chief of the Ngatirehia Tribe: "No Govenor for me - for us Native men. We, we only are the chiefs , rulers. We will not be ruled over. What! thou, a foreigner, up and I down! Thou high and I Tareha, the great chief of the Ngapuhi tribes , Low. No, no; never; Never;....... Yes, I say we are the Chiefs. If all were to be alike, all equal in rank with thee - but thou, the Governor up high - up, up, and I down, under beneath! No. no. no!". (1) Colenso, William. The Authentic and Genuine History of the Signing of the Treaty of Waitangi, New Zealand, February 5 and 6, 1840. First published in 1890. (2) NZ Maori Council vs Attorney General - New Zealand Law Report (3) Māori Council's Lands Case against the Crown in 2014

[@HTDSNZ]

​. Easy, tino rangatiritanga meant possessions in te tiriti, it was understood by all to mean so until the 70s when it was changed. Ask yourself this, if tino rangatiritanga meant high chieftainship/soverighnty as is now claimed how could it also be promised to the tribe members also, and to all the other people of NZ in article 2 of te tiriti? How can you promise high chieftainship/soverighnty to the chief and to the people the chief would seek to have it over at the very same time? You can not as that is not logical, or true. You have been lied to Neo.

[@DW_Kiwi]

The treaty was conceived, setup by and conveyed to Maori by Christians. As a result of being convinced by these virtuous and honest Christians. The treaty was received by Maori. Mainly because they trusted these Christian missionaries . Maori had a perceived need to be protected from the French, Russians and Americans. But mainly the French. They also saw that continuous warring and utu. Maori were seeing themselves being exterminated. Because of the above the Maori chiefs signed the the document Te tititi O Waitangi. Ceding the governance, Authority to govern and Control over "all" the people of these lands. Settlers, Maori Hapu and Iwi; Chiefs, Slave and Warrior. As they were now all citizens of Great Britain. This authority was given by Maori to the Queens representatives to establish Law and Order.Vested Know and now known as The Crown. Maori gave up their Mana to another with greater Mana. The British empire! That has been the way of things since 1840. That is,. Up to around 1975 when the treaty's meaning has been intionally moved progressively away from the original understanding and intent. In short Maori have had sellers remorse and now say they want their and back. Well sorry. They signed and sold that way.

[@harryevans4589]

The parties to Te Tiriti were Queen Victoria by her representative Captain William Hobson and around 500 Rangatira.

[@davethewave7248]

Henry Williams himself, the head missionary in the country at the time of the treaty, recognized just a few short years later, after the debacle of Fitzroy and the Heke uprising, that the missionaries had erred in having too much to do with politics. Henceforth, with the coming of Grey, a more pragmatic approach was taken to NZ politics, one that soon eclipsed the treaty, and kept all parties content, setters besides Maori. The 1844 Select Committee on a Report into NZ came to similiar conclusions with the treaty seen an injudicious document [thanks to a too heavily Church/ idealistic influence]. And yet our politics today wants to go back in time, and somehow found itself on a treaty-centric politcis.. which would be disastrous for our country moving forward. It would turn a very successful country into a banana republic.

[@dyle52]

"We have forgotten who we are, and we have told the only people that remember, to move on. We have called our church culture 'kingdom culture' as a means to diminish the Māori story and avoid responsiblity. Why are minorities being asked to forsake their cultural self in order to be part of a kingdom culture that ironically seems to reflect so much of a white western vision for humanity? We have reduced Māori voice to kapa haka that occasionally graces the stage in our time slots. We have used the performative elements of ao Māori without ever diving into the depth of the story of origins behind them. We want the performance without the pain. We have created cultural advisory teams to help people fit into our eurocentric systems and to avoid handing over power at the decision making table. We have said, "it's not about one culture it's about all of us" as a way of remaining the dominant story tellers and therefore ironically fleshing out the reality that it is indeed about one culture. We have rejected the Te Tiriti kawenata. We have misinterpreted scripture in order to maintain the status quo. We have done it over and over again, and we have done it all in Jesus' name...and the holes in Jesus' hands call us to remember that we have done this, and are doing this, they cry out for justice." 'A.Hardy'

[@nifokoula1]

Agree with you Ritchie re: the duty of Christians to love and care for Māori. Why is it that so many Christians ‘hate’ Brian Tamaki? The dude cares about Māori like no one else. You just mention the word destiny and believers even ministers cringe? Where is the love?

[@TimE-er1kn]

yeap. THat's because too many christians in this nation have to much of themselves in the "world" and not in the kingdom. They listen and believe what the news media says. What they don't realise is the media (over 90% according research) is left leaning. The left in this country hates christianity. So christians are allowing their views of over christians to be influenced by people that hate christians.

[@davethewave7248]

This speaker should study Maunsell. He was one of the earliest missionaries to the Waikato tribes, was next to the Williams the best scholar in the language, and spent the best years of his life serving Maori. He did his best to keep the tribes from joining the King movement/ rebellion, but in the end served as chaplain to the British forces in the war.... recognizing that force was in the end required to enforce law and order.

[@raniera13]

These comments tell me everything i need to know about the Christian religion in NZ and "Christians". Jesus you and only you are the way the truth and the life.

[@richardosborne2067]

Christianity and Culture are opposites how can a person be in Christ and AND ancestral worship as well.No reply required a true Christian should know not matter what culture.When one recieves Christ and his uncreated Spirit we become bornagain meaning old things,the oldman was Crucified and a new man is born. Too many still live and speak from the soul that has no relationship to God in fact is in enmity

[@johankrukerink6767]

Exactly 💯. Frank said we have to be different Christians in different countries, this is totally wrong. As you said the Old is dead and we are born again. We aren't a Dutch Christian or Moari Christian - we are a Christian that just happened to be Dutch or Moari.

[@Missjokelly]

Preach 🙌

[@rev.frankritchie1926]

Yes, we are made new when we receive Christ, but that happens within a culture. The culture we live is that shaped by the transformation of the Spirit within us. That may mean letting go of parts of the culture we live, and it will mean the transformation of other parts. Christ and culture are not opposite - the former redeems and transforms the latter - enhancing what is good, beautiful, and true, and dismantling what is not.

[@rev.frankritchie1926]

@@johankrukerink6767 You've misheard me. The Gospel remains the same, and you're right, we are first Christian - submitted to Christ as Lord. We then live in that submission in the context we find ourselves in. So a Christian who is Dutch will be informed by the same ultimate truths of Christ as a Christian who is Māori, but the context and culture in which they live that out will look different. One person will esteem one day, another person will esteem another (to reflect the words of Paul). A Dutch person is not going to express their faith in performing a haka for instance, but will have their own cultural traditions and context in which their faith is expressed. Gospel influences culture - dismantling that which is destructive, and enhancing that which is good, beautiful, and true. Some of that will look different from nation to nation. How Paul spoke to Gentiles was different from how he spoke to his Jewish brothers and sisters.

[@johankrukerink6767]

@@rev.frankritchie1926 that's the problem we should express our faith from a Dutch culture or a Moari culture, it is expressed by the Kingdom culture. We are dead and born again into the Kingdom of Heaven, ALL the old is dead, we don't get to choose what WE deem as appropriate for the Kingdom. That's why we have hundreds of different churches and divisions and racism because humans make it about themselves. Paul writes to multiple churches explaining not to conform to their culture and to come back to the Truth.

[@arthurparkes7948]

I support Apostle Brian Tamaki, he has the courage & boldness to stand up for the truth! Apostle stands up for Israel & the Jewish people because he knows the truth, unlike many ministers or leaders of churches throughout this nation who don’t! I would never listen to anything Te Pati Maori leaders have to say, the Indigenous people of the land of Israel which includes Gaza & the Westbank are the Jewish people, biblically & historically & that’s the truth! They don’t know anything about God! The ONE TRUE GOD! The GOD of heaven & earth. The GOD of all creation. The GOD of ISRAEL! 🇮🇱 The GOD & FATHER of OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST! ❤️

[@dawnezone8491]

Shhhh - Israel is not even a christian country...shhhh

[@kiwitraveller6451]

@@dawnezone8491 They do not need to be Christian...there was never a church Christianity...it was a man made organisation...there were the Jews The Israelites/The Hebrews...I am Jewish and do not become a Christian. I am Messianic a believer in YeHoVah Yeshua and the Ruach Ha Kodesh...Gods bame has become known with Nehemia Gordon researching being a Kari rite Jew but study's the New Testament...oh hang on there is on old or new it is one Bible from Genesisi to Revelation...Israel is the chosen land that God Himself gave to the Hebrews

[@kiwitraveller6451]

@@Edwarderuera5297 what?????????

[@Edwarderuera5297]

Sorry dumb Māori here can’t spell lol🥴

[@Raised_byKingz29]

Thank you God for the British empire. No matter the circumstances the goal is to move up forward onwards. Say it is our native culture gods religon' I'm thankful and glad British empire chopped it down to one Jesus Christ ❤

[@arenaheta9610]

The truth was signed. Then the clergy of the day invoked God as witness. When God is invoked God then becomes the covenant keeper. As He did with the Gibionites. Māori have always said te wairua o te Tiriti the same wairua then is the same today. No christian should be against a covenant by whom God has witnessed

[@almiaquinn225]

He tangata, He tangata, He tangata....read the story of Tarore and the Kingmaker my tupuna ❤

[@davethewave7248]

"The Maori population so much larger than European population when signing the treaty... so why would they ceded sovereignty??" Because that larger Maori population consisted of tribes that had been in brutal warfare for the 2 decades previous to the signing of the treay. Many southern tribes were wiped out and consigned to the ovens during the muskets wars. they signed the treaty for law and order, which came with recognizing British rule/ sovereignty. This is not rocket science people. Study the actual history, not what revisionists would have you believe.

[@petervaneeden3651]

Let's be clear God is not a man/human does not think like this worldly reasoning His ways are far above us as scriptures declares. Anyone truely representing God is being lead by His Spirit knows His thoughts and as Jesus said I only do what I see my father doing. There are many 'christians' 'churches' not listening to God that have put Him in their religious box of understandings. Now this guy wear's a cross symbol. Jesus surrendered on the cross to the point of death now those who He lives in likewise live as living scarfices holly and pleasing to Him. Scripture says we can know the mind of Christ. Clearly this protest was not good for anyone being not based on truth but highlighted leaders aggrogrance pride and deception. The new bill supports particularly Article 3 of the Treaty which guarantees equality for all. READ IT! It's not all about maori rights it's called a partnership for goodness stake. Article 2 talks about MAORI responsibility to look after their toanga with help from government/law. It's that simply!

[@iosefaandrews2351]

Thing is the likes of Ngata and Pomare had no problem with the treaty. They were intellectual giants of the highest order and were closer to events than any of us were. So why 180 years later we want to rewrite and reinterpret the past into a fantasy of what might have been? All of us fall under common law - Maori are the same as everyone else because they ceded Sovereignty. They have access to the same services as anyone else. the crown has entered into a never ending loop of grievances that sees no end.ahh but theres money to be made. So tell me how much of the billions that have been doled out over the years has made a difference to ordinary maori? Where has that gone? Is this trickling down to them?

[@tehikamane1589]

When talking Te Tiriti (9 Feb - 5 Aug 1840) over 500 mauri kings signed that document within the jurisdiction or boundary of He Whakaputanga (28 Oct 1835) a Constitutional State. The Treaty ( 11 April - 26 April) a seperate document signed at Port Waikato outside the jurisdiction of the Declaration of Independence of a Sovereign Mauri Nation, the Waikato Kings were duped into signing the english version, then english imported that document across the border of a Sovereign State, then history lies mauri ceded Sovereignty based on the decievers interpretation. Christians want the truth, then answer this, who was more loving, or neighborly, and who was the savage, English or Mauri?

[@vaughntongs1836]

Unfortunately there was a lot of personal opinion. At this time, facts are essential not personal opinion. As with scripture, when we give opinion rather than referencing the text In context of the time and and people we can mislead many. Over all the conversation was good regarding the gospels impact. Reconciliation vs reparations is the churches challenge. We are the ministers or Reconciliation so let's not allow ourselves to get distracted by the winds of doctrine from both sides. Let's study the text, bring the conversation into the Light (which David has done) and let's be ministers of reconciliation for all New Zealanders.

[@tigasnapogipa]

Keep stressing on the word "partners". He's in conflict with himself talking about the country's identity, yet pushing the idea of "partnership" and having split sovereignty. How is a treaty a theological document? Why elevate a treaty to the level of God's word?

[@vaughntongs1836]

@@tigasnapogipa I agree, We as Christians do not live under treaties, we live within covenant. The other thing is as believer we need to bring all things into the light. again, the very purpose of David's bill is to start the conversation between all parties. Understanding today there are many people groups sitting at the table and under democracy every person is allowed a voice at the table. This conversation seems to be limited to two parties and the conversation behind closed doors.

[@williammaginness6534]

The treaty must be honored it is an agreement between Maori and European what the act party wants to change the foundation of the treaty which is partnership participation and protection is a betrayal of the original agreement the indigenous people of Aotearoa are special and unique to our history the tragic history of the way European people have tried to act superior will never work as we are all equal in God's kingdom

[@matthewashman1406]

The Church wasn't yhe midwife of the treaty. Evangelical do gooders were. Because of course the Church is Catholic 😮

[@erun8r]

You shouldn't be preaching on Christianity and representing all Christians because you don't represent me as a believer of God, Jesus Christ & the Holy Spirit, and as a Maori European. The Maori Party is all about Maori, and the victimisation of Maori, and more Maori rights and NOT about the unity of all New Zealanders, all those people that were born here since the Treaty was signed, and that made Aotearoa their home, a safe haven. God is all about loving everyone, not just one people group, so if you wanna preach Christianity Frank you should be inclusive of all people groups and cultures because everything God created is perfect and should come together as one and not be divided like the Maori Party is. As for the protest march, it's hypocritical how this was accepted yet the anti-mandate protest that was a stand against the coercion and mandate of vaccinations so ALL New Zealanders and their Rights was tarnished by the Media and Government. Wolf in sheep's clothing.

[@geoffstokes]

The church has the gospel not the treaty

[@dannybishop324]

That's right a lot have the gospel with no love jus a religious spirit

[@geoffstokes]

​@@dannybishop324which isn't really the gospel - right?

[@bensutherland5066]

OK - now have a Christian leader in who supports the bill, unless you are unfair in your reporting.

[@BigSnapper]

Māori leaders signed Te Tiriti under the understanding that their sovereignty would remain intact and that the Crown's kāwana would govern settlers, not impose laws on tangata whenua.

[@LeeRaela-w3m]

Read One Sun in the Sky by Ewen McQueen. Loads of transcripts of chiefs commentary the night b4 signing treaty/te Tiriti

[@BigSnapper]

@@LeeRaela-w3m read deez nuts

[@BigSnapper]

@@LeeRaela-w3m Read, Deez Nuts by Lightning McQueen

[@serenasimpkin1946]

​@@LeeRaela-w3mthanks for the recommendation.

[@jkknobel5146]

Frank Ritchie, the proverbial stain on the Church.

[@rev.frankritchie1926]

I've been called many interesting things... but that's a new one :)