Farmall H Gas Tank Electrolysis Rust Removal

[@ohshi5402]

Thank you for this video. Very straight forward and seems to be nice and comprehensive. Appreciate the safety warnings, I've seen a bunch of people demonstrating this indoors without mentioning their ventilation setup at all.

[@tractorman4461]

Thanks for the cool comment. I stress the hydrogen gas aspect because it is real. I have a close relative that all but ruined a gas tank by creating a spark disconnecting the battery charger with the power still on. It gave a muffled explosion and jumped off the floor and like to have taken out his leg in the process. Outside is the only way to go with this process for safety. I've got another one on a Massey Harris gas tank that references similar warnings.

[@1lilfarm]

I used both the electrolysis and a few citric acid soakings to get my JD gas tank in decent shape. I was surprised how well the citric acid worked. I would also let it dry thoroughly between the soakings and then tapped on it with a hammer and it loosened up the heavy rust quickly. I also used the POR15 kit and it seems to have come out pretty good. Had to re-tap the threads for the sediment bowl because the sealer filled them up. I had seen the first time when you did the Massey tank but still enjoyed this video. 👍👍👍

[@tractorman4461]

Good job !! I knew this would be re-covering a subject done on another video. But you know the Farmall guys won't go watch a Massey video...LOL. I really like this product so far. I've got a bad problem in the Motor Patrol tank. It's going to be redone with POR-15 too. But I gotta get the nasty sludge left from the old product out first. Nasty !! Yes, I use a rubber mallet to bam bam bam on the sides and bottom first then suck 'em out with a stub of a garden hose duct taped to my shop vac.

[@Laserwurks]

I used iron out and 3d printed a plug with hole for avoid to center and hold it. Worked great on my old mtd 5 hp chipper chipper schedder.

[@tractorman4461]

Yes, that would be a great solution. The hydrogen gas has got to be given a way out for sure !! Thanks for adding input with another solution.

[@richardjacques6530]

your a popular guy Ed and Gord had nice things to say about you tonight. I have been following your videos when GP outdoors talked about you going back 1 year ago It is always interesting to go along with you on your videos I use my wife tablet and watch under her name Mona at the cottage she Is probably the only Mona as subscriber great stuff

[@tractorman4461]

Yeah, those two were cracking me up saying such things....LOL. I've just started watching Ed, so I'll have to start commenting more. But ol' GP and me go way back to when he had about 8,500 subs and I had maybe 10. LOL Such a pleasant pair of guys. Thanks for mentioning the chat...it was fun, but you could tell GP was getting a bit tired... Oh hey, If you comment on other videos of mine, remind me you are Richard and not Mona. LOL Thanks again and thanks for watching some of my silliness as well !!

[@TripleTRanchAndSawmill]

Good video! T44 has developed new hi-tech skills- souped up video editing! Love it

[@tractorman4461]

Hahahahaha....Now that's kinda funny. There ain't too much 'high tech' about me LOL. I tell ya what Kim, editing is so much harder than doing the work in the videos. You know exactly what I mean.

[@TripleTRanchAndSawmill]

@@tractorman4461 yes it doubles the time on the job and then there is another job waiting making the videos. I bet you video only 1 out of 10 projects!

[@OldSneelock]

Hotter than blazes and your sweating till you can't see from the sweat in your eyes. You set the camera, check the battery, check the memory card, start the welder and run a bead. It is perfect. Good thing because you only had one. You check the vid and it won't play. I record nearly everything. I only upload about half. 😁😎

[@tractorman4461]

@@TripleTRanchAndSawmill Yes, probably less than that Kim. Many times I'll go in at night and the Missus asks what I did today....followed by 'that'll make a good video....did you record it?' Nope. LOL

[@tractorman4461]

@@OldSneelock I usually take 1 to 1 1/2 hours down into 12 minutes give or take.

[@edgarromero6597]

Hi, friend! Thank you very much for your video, it is excellent, I saw it several times before testing and the results were fabulous ... receive my regards from Venezuela and once again .. THANK YOU

[@tractorman4461]

Thank you Edgar, for the fine compliment. The main thing to remember is that it produces an explosive gas and can be a very dangerous exercise if care is not taken. I am glad you had a good result. I hope all is well in Venezuela for you too !!

[@thesmallwoodlot433]

Great video Wendell, i have done several motorcycle tanks this way, and a few old car tanks as well! The only real difference is that I also torch soldered any rust holes first, then cleaned, pressure tested and then treated the tanks. The good thing about being in a radiator/ tank repair shop is that you have the ability to completely fill the tank with the treatment, let sit for ten-15 minutes then drain, for the etching compound, and the same goes for the treatment, we would line up 10-15 tanks a month, and only do this once a month for our customers who didn’t want replacement fuel tanks. It always worked for us, but people thought I was crazy for using a flame for the initial repair! Like you said. ”DON’T TRY THIS AT HOME!!!” Fuel tank repair is dangerous, and the process needs to be followed to the “T” any little mistake and an amateur may have a really bad day! As you said this is an “out doors project “ and safety is of most importance! If a person has the slightest question of how to do this, I recommend taking it to a professional instead of attempting it at home!

[@tractorman4461]

The only way I will weld on a tank or container that has the potential for explosive vapors is by first creating an inert atmosphere inside the tank. I'll run exhaust fumes into an empty tank before and during the repair and other times I have used regulated nitrogen to create the desired atmosphere. I ain't dead yet....LOL Man, you've done some stuff !!

[@thesmallwoodlot433]

@@tractorman4461 if I don’t fill with inert gas, then i fill it with fuel to the very tip to and leave zero room for oxygen, but this too is sketchy and dangerous! Well I guess some of us have all the fun!🤣😂🤣😂

[@gatorsworld]

Very interesting..".... I have to take the tank of the Mule and try this.....I knew about electrolysis but never tried it......very informative......CHEERS

[@tractorman4461]

Hot doggies....don't make a spark !! Well its not bad if you do it outside. LOL. But you may not have to trim your beard for a while if you do make a spark. LOL

[@1rustytree]

Good tip on the welding rod mixer!

[@tractorman4461]

Oh heck yeah, I make them all the time. Sometimes for five gallon buckets I'll cut 1 1/2'' ring off a 2 1/2'' or 3'' black iron pipe and drill a hole in one side of it. Stick one end of a 20'' x 3/8'' all thread through the hole and weld it to the inside of the other side of the ring. Chuck it up and spin away....five gallons of paint or drywall mudd at a time !! Welding rods work great for one gallon down though.

[@rodneywager2142]

Thanks, learned something new today. Had Farmall H and 300s and 350 for a long time, never new they had baffling

[@tractorman4461]

I don't know for sure the hundred series, but the H's have one so I'm sure the M's do as well because of the long length. Now the Massey Harris with the short length and tall sides don't have baffles at all. Nor do any Allis's that I know of. Thanks Rodney for watching and commenting.

[@peewee.3138]

I’ve used an old chrome dog choker chain to put inside an old tank to rattle around to get the scale off!

[@tractorman4461]

I've used a variety of things as well. The best for me was big hex nuts that I could pull out with a telescoping magnet when done. The problem comes in when there are baffles in the middle of the tank like this one here on the Farmall. They are typically only a sixteenth or eighth of an inch off the surface and the nuts and chain links can't get behind them. I remember the first one I ever did I dropped in sharp rocks then had one devil of a time getting them out !! LOL

[@daveknowshow]

i've got a fuel tank on a leaf vac that needs cleaning. i may use this method or evapo rust remover. i never tried either before so this will be a first for me.

[@tractorman4461]

I may not have used the Evaporust correctly, but the time I used it the level of satisfaction was very low. I ended up using electrolysis on that tank immediately . The BEST product I've found is POR-15. If you do electrolysis then first, dry thoroughly with a hair dryer, apply the POR-15 cleaner then the actual sealer you will be very satisfied. But you must follow the directions to ensure success. I have done more tractor and motorcycle tanks than I can name and this is the best brand yet. I've done 4 so far with this product. LOVE it !! Thanks Dave for the visit. Good luck. They sell the product in a variety of sizes. I buy quarts for the tractor tanks.

[@daveknowshow]

@@tractorman4461 awesome thanks

[@316jd140]

I used the acid method, it came out pretty clean. Then I seal it with POR-15. I still haven't got it on the tractor yet - contemplating sanding it down, and the grill, hood, etc. and painting the whole tractor, or just leave it in it's work clothes.

[@tractorman4461]

I think either way would work just fine. Did yours have a ton of rust flakes like this one ? This one stretched out over a three week period before I was happy with it.

[@ButlerOutdoorsCanada]

Great job Wendell! Another tank saved!!

[@tractorman4461]

I don't have to much choice...well I do have an M parts tractor, but I think that tank is a lot larger than this little guy. Thanks for stopping in Andrew !!

[@winfordnettles3292]

Thanks for the information. I'll be cleaning and coating the fuel tank from my 1947 John Deere model M tractor in a couple of weeks and will use the procedure that you demonstrated in your video.

[@tractorman4461]

Cool. Make sure you remember to keep the tank totally full during the process. A void at the top of the tank will allow the explosive hydrogen gas to build up and a spark can ignite it. Its also dangerous to do it in an enclosed space. Rinse and totally dry it with a hair dryer before applying the coating. I also recommend following the preparation guidelines prior to applying the coating. Some products like the POR 15 have a specific treatment that almost ensures a good out come.

[@DIYMyWay]

Hi Wendell! Very impressive! That whole process is an exercise in patience - with a dash of danger for seasoning! Looking forward to seeing you get the tank back on the Farmall H. Thanks for sharing!

[@tractorman4461]

Well Martin, I don't want to downplay the danger using the process on a tank. In an open container, outside in the breeze there is literally no chance of ignition though. The part that made this stretch out so long was that blasted baffle !!

[@DavidRobinson-mx6cl]

Awesome tip ! Going to use it on my d-14allis-chalmers ! Thanks for the info !!👍

[@tractorman4461]

Well, it does work quite well, but remember the process creates the explosive gas. More than one fellow has blown tanks to distortion !! Thanks David for watching and commenting.

[@fricknjeep]

hi there nice show . thanks john

[@tractorman4461]

Thanks John....I see you are busy as the devil with milling this and that....You're as bad as me, just can't sit down. LOL Take care and keep sawing !!

[@mattthescrapwhisperer]

I have frequently heard of using washing soda (Diprotic acid), but this is the first time I've heard of using Baking Powder (Sodium Bicarbonate). Obviously it works!

[@tractorman4461]

It's not really the particular compound used when it comes to electrolysis because its the battery charger that's doing the work....its that the sodium bicarbonate or tri sodium phosphate increases the specific gravity of the water above the reading of 1. Clear clean water is the base for the specific gravity chart with a base reading of 1 and will in fact conduct the DC flow, but increasing the reading to something above 1 increases the conductance of the water. So adding to the base number is what increases its ability to conduct the tiny DC current from the negative post to the positive post, the anode. Now some real smart fellow can rip that apart because I don't know all the proper terms to use, but that is basically what happens. So Matt all I know is that what I do works, so I ain't a gonna mess with the technicalities because what happens by doing what I do is good enough for me !! LOL. Thanks for watching. I bet it's pretty warm out that way this week....

[@mattthescrapwhisperer]

@@tractorman4461 yeah, we have been hovering around 103 with 7% humidity for a week, but it's cooling off now. Our monsoon season is getting ready to start

[@tractorman4461]

@@mattthescrapwhisperer Whew !!

[@regsparkes6507]

I wonder if you had access to a bore scope to see just exactly what it looked like inside, before you did this process , then again when you've finished. Those pictures would be interesting. Understanding your CAUTION and WARNING of doing this, it is a good way to clean out tanks like this. Interesting and educational video here Wendell, Tanks a lot! ( hahaha )

[@tractorman4461]

I had a bore scope and used it a number of times down spark plug holes to see what condition cylinders were in. But for some reason, with software upgrade, it would no longer work on my I-phone and there has been no software upgrades for the scope !! They got ya over a barrel don't they !!?? I gave it to my daughter to fiddle with. I've been looking for a replacement though. I tell you what, it was an impressive view though. Incredibly close and focused. Thanks Reg for stopping in for a visit.

[@regsparkes6507]

@@tractorman4461 You're welcome Brother, next time the coffee's on me! :)

[@akquilter3519]

That was informative. Can't say I will ever do something like that.

[@tractorman4461]

I'm sure most all the viewers will never have the need for the process either. But guys like the Much Older Brother and myself need to use it quite frequently. The new oxygenated and alcohol enriched fuels cause many problems with old equipment. There are those that majically never seem to have an issue with it and I wish I knew their secret. We are not that lucky. LOL. These new fuels are engineered for the modern fuel injection systems most of whose fuel storage and delivery systems are made of composite materials that are impervious to rust and oxidation. Not all are composite, but many are. Its hard to rust plastic. (generic term for composite...the composition of which I have no clue). LOL

[@anonamous4166]

I love the warning about hydrogen gas. Yes, it was the Hindenberg that blew up but for a true example of Hydrogen gas explosions, one need only look up... it's kinda what causes the sun... to sun...

[@tractorman4461]

I think they go through that lesson in the entry jingle to every 'Big Bang Theory' sitcom. LOL But seriously though, more than one gas tank has been destroyed by the careless removal of the cables. Remove power first !! LOL, should be the easiest thing to remember for folks. Thanks AA for the fun but accurate comment.

[@anonamous4166]

@@tractorman4461 I've never had that issue myself but it's possible I've just been lucky so far. I was watching to remind myself which lead goes to which because I have a motorcycle I'm working on and a tank with a lot of rust and holes (the other one I had actually rusted through because I had left it alone for so long) Problem is there's so many dents and some pinholes in it I'm thinking a might have more luck just making a whole new tank at this point.

[@mwsartwell]

I am using evaporust on ford jubilee gas tank, seems to work well. I will need to get a endoscope to see inside to verify!

[@tractorman4461]

I tried five gallons of that on one and wasn't too happy. Might have been something I did wrong though. I ended up abandoning that product and started over with the battery charger. I had an endoscope, but the I-phone updated the version and it would no longer work with the endo. The Endo people have no updates and what IS available on the web is all in chinese or something. So I gave it to my daughter. But man it was great while it worked !! Some of the Fords have a baffle too. I don't know about the Jubilee. My 800's tank is still good, and I've never looked inside it. About the same as a jubilee tank I'd think. Good luck Michael...let me know how it turned out with the Evaporust !!

[@allanvarner8137]

I have a H that has a real bad rust problem I might try that and acid clean and try copper electrolysis and plate the inside and seal it.

[@tractorman4461]

I haven't heard and know nothing much about the plating process. That's why I like to stick to getting to bare metal then use the tank coating. I've had real good luck except for one failure. And that was my own fault, not the product. I think on the next baffled tank, I'm going to try the vinegar routine, then flush, metal prep then the POR-15 product. Good Luck Allan on what ever route you choose.

[@OldSneelock]

Hi Wendell. I was watching and thought about the baffle problem. The tank fitting for the fuel line is usually on the opposite side of the baffle from the fill. Would it be possible to use a rubber grommet and some cobbled up fitting to insert an electrode through the fuel line fitting? That would give you two electrodes so the process will have line of sight access to both sides of the baffle. Depending on the size of your electrode it may take a while before you stop seeing the brown smut coming out of the tank. I have used electrolysis on all kinds of rusty stuff but never used electrolysis on a fuel tank. Your method sounds like a winner. When I cleaned out the rust from the Ford 8N tank I used bungie cords to strap it to the front of my cement mixer. Then I let it run with the etch in the tank for about an hour changing the tilt of the cement mixer every 15 minutes or so. The only thing I did that I wouldn't do again is dumped about a cup full of old 1/4" nuts in with the etch. I had a dickens of a time trying to get the last nut out of the tank. I think it was just the right size to slide under the baffle if it was laying flat. An hour of spinning gave it all the opportunity it needed to get under the baffle. I spent at least an hour shaking and tipping to get it out.

[@tractorman4461]

I just slapped myself in the face !! I never even thought of that !!. Most sediment bowls are 3/8 or 1/2'' iron pipe threads so the appropriate pvc mpt x slip would satisfy the requirement for entering that additional opening. DANG !! Now my forhead's stinging.... I just may have to try that on the next one that meets these parameters. Thanks for thinking outside the box for me. I smartened up and used hex nuts for my second attempt....the first attempt many years ago bit me in the butt. I put in 20 or so real sharp rocks that would fit through the fill hole. Guess what...THAT my friend, was an extraction NIGHTMARE !! Telescoping magnets worked much better on the nuts...LOL Cement mixer is a novel idea as well. My one old uncle picked up dozens and dozens of five gallon buckets of walnuts from the surrounding farmers every year. He'd toss them in his little mixer with brick batts and let'em go until all the pummies were knocked off. Then dry them elevated in chicken wire. Then soon as cold weather would hit, he's spend countless hours cracking and picking walnut kernels. Concrete mixer you say..??? Naw... that's a universal rust removing walnut washing machine.

[@OldSneelock]

No need to abuse your poor head. I was pleased that I thought of it. Having the same issue on the 8N I could have saved a lot of time.

[@tractorman4461]

@@OldSneelock hahahaha... just a flat spot on the forehead LOL. Yeah, that Ford has a baffle too. I think most of the longer tanks do.

[@jankotze1959]

That is a process I never seen, thanks for sharing my friend, so in fact the treated surfaces will look like steel or silver spray painted

[@tractorman4461]

Yes Jan, the process will change the flaky, rusty surface to almost a perfectly gray but pitted surface. Once air dried and treated with the POR-15, it will we a perfectly grey coated surface. It doesn't fill up the pitting up to a level surface, it just places a perfect sealant that when cured is supposed to be impervious to rust. That's why it is so important to ensure the application of the product covers all areas exposed to fuel. The tanks like this one leaves me to wonder though, because there is no way to fully cover the center baffle. Time will tell what effect if any that will have on the whole tank. Thank you sir for the visit today.

[@jankotze1959]

@@tractorman4461 thanks very much, I learned something to remember on my Farmall and Lister D engine tanks

[@tractorman4461]

@@jankotze1959 On really nasty ones, I will stop by a car wash in town and use heavy soap cycle and blow the baloney out of the tank first. Then I bought my own pressure washer for degreasing the backhoe and skid steer before working on them. So l have used it on at least one now.

[@icannevergetthistowork]

What size container did you use of the POR15? The h tank is 17 gallons. Also, did you experience flash rust between when you were drying it and putting the sealer on? Thanks!

[@tractorman4461]

I would definitely recommend the container of the pre-treatment. It will almost ensure a perfect job. I used a pint container but I almost certain a haf pint would be adequate. It adhere's very nicely and is the best product I've used for sealant in 40 years of working on these things. I did not experience flash rust, but I hang a hair dryer on a metal strap to blow into the open gas tank for 24 hours before I apply the pre-treatment. Then I do the same thing before applying the POR-15. You cannot connect the hair dryer to the gas tank because it will overheat the dryer and burn it up. Hanging it on the strap allows it to blow directly into the tank but also allows some of the air to bypass saving the dryer. The main problem with the IH tanks is the blasted baffle in the middle of the tank. There just is no way to get the sealant to cover the surfaces of the baffle.

[@icannevergetthistowork]

@tractorman4461 They recommend a quart up to 20 gallons. They say a pint will only do 10 gallons.

[@tractorman4461]

@@icannevergetthistowork I'd go with what they suggest. I'd have to look at my container to see what size it really was. But it goes on super thin and almost looks like a galvanized coating. I just don't remember the can being really big at all. But the main thing is to use the pre-treatment and dry fully with a hair dryer before proceeding.

[@icannevergetthistowork]

@tractorman4461 how has it held up? Did it get behind the baffle? Thanks!

[@brianbuchanan7215]

my motorcycle gas tank has three holes; the fill, fuel pump opening and fuel sensor opening. If I have a large enough vessel can I totally submerge the tank and make the connection to the anode and tank with copper wire?

[@tractorman4461]

Well Brian, the anode must be in the solution where the rust needs to be removed from. It seems to be a 'line of sight' transference from the rusty surface to the anode. So the negative post must be attached to the outside of the tank with the positive connected to the anode immersed inside the tank. I'm not sure the of results for what you ask with the entire tank immersed. The real problem with motorcycle tanks is the way they are built...with the saddle down the center. I do first one side then the other. Slow and steady ensures a safe and thorough project though. Hydrogen gas WILL be generated in the process. Good luck with your endeavor.

[@brianbuchanan7215]

@@tractorman4461 thanks for the reply. I understand the line of sight deal and I see where I can get the anode inside the tank. and if running copper wire to connect the battery outside of the solution will work I think it could work like the tools that are submerged. Now if I were to close off the two holes that would allow me to fill the tank to the rim of the fill, what could I use?

[@tractorman4461]

@@brianbuchanan7215 I assume the holes you need to plug are standard piping threads...? I plug the extra holes in my tractor tanks with pipe plugs of various sizes. I'm sure the motorcycle tanks are standard threads as well. But some British and Japanese bikes may have metric pipe threads. Remember too that you have to make sure the anode does not or cannot come in contact with the inside of the tank. So it must be insulated as it passes into the neck with provisions for the gas to escape. Some guys use coat hangers they can bend to the shape to go in the fill neck and hang to one side or the other as the anode. Motorcycle tanks are the hardest I've done by far ! Remember to do it outside to eliminate the potential danger of explosion.

[@frankcadillac9151]

muriatic acid works wonders on old cast iron carbs the will look freshly cast with all the small passages cleaned out. Don't get it anywhere near aluminum or pot metal. It will be so clean it will flash rust so protect the surface.

[@tractorman4461]

I've not used muriatic acid for that but I can see the benefits for sure. I am lucky enough to have an ultra sonic parts washer and with the Chem-Dip it does a wonderful job in just a few timer cycles. Good tip on the acid. Thanks Frank.

[@projector7141]

I'm curious why people choose this method over soaking in vinegar or acid?

[@tractorman4461]

Well, though it' a bit more time consuming and a lot of work, the results are stellar. I think vinegar or acid is probably better for a baffled tank like this Farmall tank is though. Electrolyosis is primarily a 'line of sight' operation and does a wonderful job in a wide open non-baffled tank. There's also the hydrogen gas vapor/explosion danger to be aware of. Its not for everyone.

[@projector7141]

@@tractorman4461 Thank you for that valuable insight.

[@frankcadillac9151]

If great care is used Muriatic acid will rapidly remove rust, flush and neutralize with bicarb and dry.

[@tractorman4461]

I've not tried Muriatic acid Frank. But that makes sense. I may try that in the future as I still have two gallons of it in the shop. Thanks for the tip...one I will remember for sure.

[@jeffreyhays6970]

I'll just send you my gas tanks and money,good job thanks

[@tractorman4461]

It should be a LOT of money if they are as bad as this H tank was. LOL It's not too bad, you just can't get in a hurry is all. Thanks Jeffrey for stopping and commenting !!

[@markjoudrey7036]

Wanted to try that for a while now.But have not fully convinced Lisa that I won't blow myself up.lol

[@tractorman4461]

Hahahaha....You definitely need to be careful with the hydrogen gas for sure !! Just keep it vented and totally topped off and flush it frequently and add a little more Arm and Hammer each time. Good comment Mark....I liked it. LOL

[@jimmywilliams9824]

Filled with water, safe now

[@tractorman4461]

Yessir Jimmy, doing the inside of any tank you have to eliminate any possibility of accumulating hydrogen gas. That's also why it must be done somewhere other than an enclosed shed.

[@Cinder2008]

Don’t try this at home. (Do it at work when the boss isn’t around .)

[@tractorman4461]

Now David....I didn't say that. But you know that might not be a bad idea... LOL. Ok guys, that's just a joke. LOL. Good comment and thanks for the early morning smile !!