Fastest Way To Get To War Economy as USA - Hoi4 guides

This is the fastest way to get to war economy as the USA at 262 days. Does require an early war but that isn't anything that can't be dealt with and it takes out Japan before they become a problem.
twitch.tv/71cloak

[@KernelBill]

Next dev diary : “USA now has extra restrictions for withdrawing from naval treaty”

[@jean-edouardahmedozzi6120]

Well in SP it's a very strong strat for sure but in MP it's actually a double-edged sword because in 36 the US is NOT a strong military power at all.

[@JB-xl2jc]

@@jean-edouardahmedozzi6120 Yeah in MP it's a good way to get dogpiled in '36 with the free war goals you just gave everyone (and they'll all have bigger militaries than you haha)

[@juvandy]

I think this may actually be the case. Just tried a run in BBA and I'm in September and Japan hasn't declared yet. Followed this to the letter.

[@charlesswain554]

@@juvandy i can’t even get the stern warning from the uk

[@MrAbgeBrandt]

This is the first time I see the naval treaty features having an actually meaningful effect on gameplay.

[@AjarTadpole7202]

Really? Have you never seen the Uk delete their entire navy then the entire world just declares war on Chile? (I legit had a UK game where I deleted my entire navy, then every superpower except the US declared war on Chile who was guaranteed by the US, so everyone ended up eating America alive)

[@MrAbgeBrandt]

@@AjarTadpole7202 No, never. I wasn't even aware that deleting your own things can cause a casus belli or something... Only knew "no-delete" situations like the Spanish Civil War.

[@KarstenOkk]

You can also use it as Democratic UK to invade USA by 1936/1937 and have a huge military base.

[@RogueAgent007]

Had no clue it could cause this.

[@bradyportwood9398]

I really need a us guide man

[@mattd7566]

That was pretty awesome. Really makes the first 4 years of USA less boring.

[@giahungnguyen6334]

And become even more overpowered, like it isn’t op enough

[@JB-xl2jc]

@@giahungnguyen6334 Since this only really works in SP (it would technically work in MP but it's way more likely everyone will just murder you with the free CB's you gave them), I say that's fun. A specific decision you can take to make an OP wildly ahistoric run sounds fun to me haha

[@Nikarus2370]

2:30. So I've messed with this run a few times. The triggers for wars seem to be as such. Japan will always declare. If you own Puerto Rico (not puppeted), France will declare, and Italy seems to do it based on the size of your military. Britain in my runs has only declared after I either A take French Caribbean (and thus share a border with the UK) or B march across North Africa and border them via Egypt. But they might have an army size trigger as well (if your mil is small enough) And while it's difficult, it's perfectly serviceable for 1937 USA to be at war with all of these at once. Japan's AI can't really make it to the west coast, and they'll still go after China on schedule even if they're supposed to be at war with you. Europeans are easy enough to hold back for a little bit (and arguably, save the 25pp/time and just let the Canadians step into New Hampshire a bit to get the decision off.) Have a few crazy naval battles in the Pacific and East Coast. I recall USS Texas rolling around on like 30+ kills. NAVs are also your friend if you decide to go this route. In the video you go the downsizing your mil route to trigger Italy which is good. A side thought to this is that you could lend lease Puerto Rico convoys and such, and build up some infrastructure to re-annex it triggering a war with France... Beating Italy (and thus sharing a border with France that way, might also trigger them)

[@juvandy]

Any idea if this still works in By Blood Alone? I just tried and after a couple of months Japan still hasn't declared on me.

[@Nikarus2370]

@@juvandy TBH I haven't played HOI at all in a couple months, so I don't know. But you've gotten the ultimatum to disarm your navy correct?

[@juvandy]

@@Nikarus2370 ah- yes I think I was actually selecting the wrong response!

[@gabrielcamargo3010]

I can’t believe I started a USA playtrough around the time that you posted this! Would helped me a lot… oh well, gonna need to play again then :p

[@youtuberobbedmeofmyname]

Imagine a mod starting in 1937 in this timeline where the US left the naval treaties, made a bitter rival out of the UK and starts at war with Japan on the backfoot. It would be sick as hell.

[@Avalanche_Mudder04]

Thanks for the sort by airbase tip. I didn't realize that filtered the carriers to the bottom.

[@UM96lol]

Wow, that's amazing. What else can be done with the naval treaty? I've heard that UK deleting their fleet also gets war goals.

[@71Cloak]

Its really just the UK and USA that can exploit them. Noone cares if France, Italy or Japan delete their navies.

[@MetoFulcurm]

Who gets a war goal when UK deletes their fleet?

[@MetoFulcurm]

Oh I get it, because your fleet is smaller after you delete some, now you can go to war because they don't scuttle their fleet. Kinda stupid but it's a game, who you gonna invade without navy.

[@danielgloyd4529]

@@MetoFulcurm you can do basically a world conquest as Democratic UK if you delete all your capital ships. Then send a warning to everyone wait a few months because the AI will never delete their ships even if they choose the option to do so in the event. So for a bit of PP, you get free war goals on whoever you want.

[@m.s.cheung8471]

@@MetoFulcurm it's not stupid. All the naval treaties count are the number of capital ships. If UK deletes a bunch of obsolete CA, they still have substantial firepower while getting war goals.

[@dcbadger2]

This was my all time favorite thing to do in HOI4, but alas, it has been "patched." Italy bails on the treaty if you do, and it triggers the escalation clause, so no one gets war goals on you.

[@Technae]

thanks for your videos, informative and helpful as always

[@stevecarswell6329]

For some reason, in the runs I have attempted to replicate this Japan never invades Attu island. I have made sure there are no divisions on the island and there are no ships in the zones they would need to pass through to invade it. This makes it so I can never use the decision to go to war economy.

[@CJ-wh7ik]

In my case this strat always works

[@Bradley_UA]

In my experience a couple of medium tank divisions can push through anything in Japan, so downfall using them would be fine

[@krawdad4600]

What I usually do is go Alf Landon's route for dealing with the Great Depression. I get the +15% PP advisor first and don't choose a single focus until the election in order to produce as much PP as possible. After the election, I spam out medium lobbying effort while doing only the Great Depression focuses. Usually done between 1937-1938 depending on how often I remember to click lobbying effort and if I get distracted with another focus while waiting for Capitol Hill support.

[@pubcollize]

But going Gold Standard requires having Alf Landon, so you can only start it *after* the election.

[@krawdad4600]

@@pubcollize Yeah, it's not an issue though since you need the time to bank as much PP as possible. No point in doing lobbying before the election since Capitol Hill gets shaken up on the election.

[@pubcollize]

@@krawdad4600 Ok from the way it was written I thought you meant you do the Gold Standard first thing, and then stock up on PP waiting for the election. But what you meant was you stock up on PP waiting for the election. I was actually going to try something similar to what you suggested after watching this vid, wanting to go Gold Standard while also rushing War Economy even if it's not the most speedruny thing to do.

[@kaigao4842]

... but gold standard gives you +5 consumer goods, which kinda sucks a lot, and going america first for the production bonuses is kinda thonk

[@krawdad4600]

@@kaigao4842 yeah, but 5% isn't felt that hard since you have ~129 civilian factories on game start and get ~20-30 more from trade. if you really want the extra civs, there is a financial advisor that has -5% consumer goods.

[@Technae]

Oh also, I don't know how well known this is, but... As the uk if you purposefully scuttle your capital ships you can then take those naval treaty decisions to chance getting wargoals on countries at the start of the game.

[@darkentrepreneur134]

Hey so if I understand you correctly as UK I just need to delete some capital ships (Without taking any decisions?) And afterwards I get War goals on other major nations? If it aint that simple could u share what decisions and steps I would have to take?

[@Beonid]

@@darkentrepreneur134 You'll need PP - 50 per wargoal; decisions appear at 3AM the day after you scuttle your ships. What you're aiming to do is reduce your number of capitals below your target nation, which makes the decision available to take. Once you take the decision, your target will respond either saying they'll disarm, or they'll refuse. There are advantages to both, but I usually prefer the former, because if the target fails to disarm, the current treaty signatories (France, USA, Italy, Japan, UK) will get wargoals on the target - which can be useful if you need military access, or want to join Japan's faction down the track. What I usually do is scuttle everything but the Hood and a Revenge class, which allows you to get wargoals on pretty much any country you could want. I then send ultimatums to Spain and Argentina - if you're lucky, they'll offer to disarm. Then take out Spain before the civil war and puppet them using the wargoal (not usually possible for democratic UK). France and the USA probably haven't declared on Spain at this point, but Italy and Japan will have. France and the USA will declare on Spain almost immediately - typically within 48 hours in the case of France, and up to a couple of weeks in the case of the USA. This will drag you into the war, but both France and the USA are very weak at this point and are easy pickings. You can then declare on Argentina, and just leave them alive until Marco Polo Bridge Incident - they'll join the Chinese United Front, and drag China into the war. From here, you can take all of China (just make sure you block Japan's advance to prevent them from getting war score).

[@darkentrepreneur134]

@@Beonid Wow I appreciate your detailed response. Thank you!

[@qqwince]

even in Japan, it is possible to block the straits with a surface fleet, thereby encircling their divisions

[@rocko2268]

Nice strat! Can you do a fast one on Japan rushing USA?

[@jamesmayes4351]

Man thats nasty OP

[@youtuberobbedmeofmyname]

This is Galaxy Brain, truly.

[@thomasjefferson7828]

How do you make the naval landings into Japan? I tried it, but my divisions were DOA.

[@GianpieroVenerosoMusic]

Could we get a no war edition to speedrun the mobilitation of USA economy? This would be so useful in MP

[@71Cloak]

Most mp rulesets I've seen put a limit on when the usa can do the giant wakes. Usually its way later than even normal timing.

[@AjarTadpole7202]

@@71Cloak Most, not all. I say make the vid if people will watch it

[@ItsJustDoctor]

The best way is to use the communist route but not actually go communist

[@pubcollize]

I can't figure out a way to do something similar with the Gold Standard path. When the 1936 treaty decision ends I'm always missing 10 PP, and can't figure out another way to break the agreement :(

[@marcogh]

71Cloak what do you do as a real job/what degree do you have because you seem really good at this sort of stuff

[@hamman2441]

In my experience Japan doesn’t declare for some reason

[@momokeo2521]

I just tried this with the America at War mod and it still works. If you're having trouble getting naval superiority, detach your subs and convoy raid around the Philippines and in the East China Sea. Detach some destroyers and convoy escort around the Philippines. Then put your main fleet on stike force on all of these tiles and you'll defeat the Japanese navy piecemeal.

[@momokeo2521]

However, atleast in this mod, the homeland defence decision does not remove the great depression

[@AjarTadpole7202]

Make a follow-upm video where you continue playing and annex Italy

[@mainman879]

You can prevent the second theater from reinforcing by setting their priority lower. The gear icon on the left of the theater bar.

[@MrShigwell]

Great video . Keep it up .

[@kevinkim725]

How did you even find about these features?

[@kjetilnyjordet7742]

Any reason why Japan would not invade Attu Island if all the steps in this video are followed?

[@thomasmay9089]

When I tried this today there was no response to withdrawing from the naval treaty, has this been changed or more likely I assume I did something wrong?

[@colin5197]

I think it's been patched

This is either completely dead, or Man the Guns DLC is not enough. I don't have the 2 latest (tanks and planes) and the Powers don't even get the worgoals once I leave the treaty.

[@samarkand1585]

Wtf, all that just cause you quit the Washington treaty? That's quite silly

[@BigMackWitSauce]

Wait you're telling me its unrealistic all of Europe would declare war on the USA just because they withdrew from a ship treaty, preposterous

[@marthvader14]

When to choose Limited Intervention and when Neutrality?

[@71Cloak]

I don't ever do limited intervention.

[@marthvader14]

@@71Cloak Ah ok thanks Why not?

[@tg-sj2nu]

@@marthvader14 its useless focuses mostly

[@marthvader14]

@@tg-sj2nu Doesn't it let you mobilize and industrialize earlier?

[@Chocolatnave123]

@@marthvader14 limited intervention allows you to send volunteers and lend lease much earlier, but makes it much harder to switch off of the undisturbed isolation economy law. neutrality does the opposite; it makes switching to partial mob easier, but you cant send volunteers or lend lease til the war starts.

[@pewterschmidt23lord99]

So pretty much if you withdraw from the naval treaties everyone goes spastic on you pretty much

[@MetoFulcurm]

Can Japan war declared on them somehow like this?

[@killformo2152]

This doesnt work anymore with the new update, does it?

[@agentn2o]

Seems to ... on BBA and followed this method. Japan just attacked on the 23rd of June, 1936.

[@killformo2152]

@@agentn2o hmmmm ok thanks

[@agentn2o]

@@killformo2152 NP .. the main points are withdrawing from the naval treaty, making Alaska core, and leaving Attu available for Japanese invasion so you do the war emergency act. All that still occurred and I just finished my war with Japan at the end of 1937. Bonzai!

[@killformo2152]

@@agentn2o yeah in my runs its either japan doesnt get a wargoal or after picking 'lets not find out what these measurements are' the 80-100% naval says completed so japan doesnt declare war.

[@Mr.Artjom]

can you still do this?

[@franciscofonseca8126]

In what situation will the uk and france actually declare war on you?

[@71Cloak]

If you don't release the 3 coutnries they are very likely to declare war on you because they want them.

[@dominien6487]

does this only work with dlc?

[@71Cloak]

You need man the guns i think for the naval treaty. No other dlc should be needed.

[@dominien6487]

@@71Cloak thanks, whats the best way if i have no dlcs?

[@BigMackWitSauce]

Damn how do people figure this stuff out, gonna try it out now, maybe I can finally get that take over leadership of allies from UK achievement

[@bjjfan4873]

I have done every USA achievement except for that one. I can take over the faction but they won't give me the expeditionary forces.

[@BigMackWitSauce]

I fucked it up lol, they got the Alaskan Island so I went to invade and was just thinking I couldn't get naval superiority but then realized I had to call the Philippines into the war...

[@BigMackWitSauce]

@@bjjfan4873 So I just managed to do it on that playthrough I started yesterday, after Italy declared on me the UK actually invited me to the allies, so I used that to be able to invade them from Gibralter. I built a couple civs and mostly mils, constantly and also builts a ton of 1 brigade cavalries, I was planning to convert them to better divisions later but was just spamming them to get around the "only can only train like 10 divisions at once if your army is small problem" Then I turned 72 of them into national guard divisions because that was the biggest template, stuck them in theatre 2 and deprioritized their equipment What this did is gave me the army size necessary to take control of the faction and a year on war economy meant I had enough factories. I took over the allies and then I requested 51 divisions from the UK It says they wouldn't accept, but they did anyway, so not sure what happened there Anyway, that got me the achievement Also doing this but not getting neutrality act would allow you to still go communist USA and ally with USSR for probably the easiest world conquest ever

[@bjjfan4873]

@@BigMackWitSauce That's awesome! I'll have to mess around with it. Thanks for the reply!

[@Baba.222]

Gut

[@KosayJabre]

When I tried this in R56, France is the one that always declares on me and Japan never does. I even tried releasing Puerto Rico entirely, not as a puppet. In vanilla, it works though!

[@felipearenasbarr]

Same happened to me in R56

[@KosayJabre]

@@felipearenasbarr In R56 instead of coring Alaska, you can core Puerto Rico instead. Then when France declares war on you and takes Puerto Rico, you can still hit the focus.

[@felipearenasbarr]

@@KosayJabre I'll take that in mind

[@paulboudreau4363]

I know this is slightly dated but I can't seem to get the naval supremacy in my favor for amphibious operations

[@71Cloak]

Try baiting the ai into sending their fleet elsewhere with some convoy raiding. Or surface raiding with your main fleet and try to catch some of their screens and smaller fleets. The ai loves splitting up it fleet, so try and pick it those off first if you can get naval supremacy.

[@dika2saja]

how to win speedrun

[@batzing]

You can do this while choosing Alt-History paths for world conquests. Something that is sadly not possible as a Democracy. Sad you shared this. Now Paradox will remove the fun.

[@julian9241]

yeah i already knew that exploit but its good to hear it from you

[@benjaminbesaw7540]

Is there a way to do this without doing the New Deal?

[@71Cloak]

It will probably work. Slower though, you won't get the pp from focus so you will have to not take a focus and hope you have enough pp to abandon the Washington naval treaties.

[@Pretosama]

Loquele estuvo aquí

[@1PorscheCaymanS]

I recognize that HOI4 is a huge sandbox specifically designed to allow gamers to play with history via 'artificial' mechanics. That said, this approach, along with others of its ilk, pretty much ignores the actual state of public opinion (and public policy) in the US at the time. The role that US has played on the world stage since WW2 has created an impression of a country far different than that in existence in the years before Pearl Harbor. The US was completely distracted by the Great Depression and the average citizen was paying zero attention to events overseas. Non-intervention was the reflex reaction for most citizens and it literally took years of WW2 coverage to slowly change public opinion and cause a growing recognition that intervention was going to be necessary. Simply put, this sequence, along with the other non-historical approaches, should cause a massive stability hit to a population that would be totally unready for the events which occur. Just sayin.'

[@PejmanMan]

"Japan declared war on us, time to get a move on". That's the exact same thing that happened on pearl harbor. FDR came in the previous year promising to keep the country out of war. The great depression wasn't over yet in 1940 or in 1941 It's the same thing that happened. And the Naval treaties would've been just an executive level decision.

[@steadyjumper3547]

@@PejmanMan I agree, it could be 1939 or 1936 the USA is going to react the same way to a declaration of war. It’s just the kind of people Americans are. There should be some draw backs but your average young male is going to be signing up. Many famous soldiers joined when they were 16, 17. That’s how eager many were.

[@pubcollize]

Americans behave in a far more puppety way to the whims of their rulers and media than they'd like to believe, and in that regard they're far closer to the European mentality they claim to have washed their hands off of than they'd like to admit.

[@LucasCastro-ox6qi]

amazing guide, but is it effective to get rid of my Great Depression? jk

[@ahmedkeremsayar]

game is already easy as fuck i intentionally stay on civilian to make ai buffed. they need to buff ai

[@CleetusBilly]

Expert AI mod

[@MisterBhodisattva]

wtf!!!!

[@thecanadiankiwibirb4512]

Why does releasing those nations make the AI not want to invade you

[@peggymitchell5452]

I thought the reason you release them, and then dont call them into the war, so that when japan naval invades you the nearest place for them to do it is alaska so they just go for that

[@nolin132]

@@peggymitchell5452 But he did it for Puerto Rico as well, which is famously not close to Japan

[@71Cloak]

The French tend to like to declare on you for Peurto Rico and the UK will declare over any of the 3 most of the time.

[@919Loki]

​@@71Cloak maybe because these are none core territories and the democracies wants to free them

[@MetoFulcurm]

@@919Loki Heh heh heh :D

[@helloquestionmark9942]

Where's the fun

[@danilkibenko4017]

Doesn't work. Bs of Japan, wont invade on core island :'(

[@Tetragramix]

USA! USA!

[@naoyanaraharjo4693]

"This is just a showcase of why OP Downfall would be so bloody, Japan is a horrible terrain to fight through" Based

[@FreeMan4096]

you might want to finally look up what "based" means.

[@naoyanaraharjo4693]

@@FreeMan4096 by this point it means "i agree with you a lot man"

[@monkeydetonation]

@@naoyanaraharjo4693 No it doesn't

[@felipearenasbarr]

japan's not declaring war bruh