Fasting (Without Calorie Restriction) And Calorie Restriction With Fasting Extend Lifespan

[@monnoo8221]

thank you so much for digging this out and presenting. The most interesting aspect of that research is IMO that some variables in early life had a strong effect on life span and health span. That would support the metabolic theory of aging, based on what it is known as epigenetic landscape (Waddington) for 60 years now. According to this, the whole metabolic network degrades more and more, until the repair quickly falls behind. It is probably interesting to note that the AL group gained 28% weight, while the DR40 group lost 24%, as compared to their weight at 6 mo. The next level of such experiments would be targeting the question what happens in a group maintaining their weight, and with interventions targeting the energy metabolism, whether by food, or by supplements.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Ah, but lymphocytes and RDW were stronger predictors of longevity, independent of group assignment...

[@costa768]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Independent means they just measured the biomarkers from a sample or for all individuals of all groups and associated them to mortality. Biomarkers still correlate better with some groups. Meaning the treatments can affect those biomarkers. But it's good to know since you can further optimize the biomarkers apart from following the treatment in case.

[@user_375a82]

I am 74 and no gray hair. I get some good tips from this channel.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks @user_375a82, and what's your secret for no grey hair?

[@derghiarrinde]

Not even beard?

[@ChessMasterNate]

Do you have hair?

[@derghiarrinde]

@@ChessMasterNate yes. I didn't want to be rude or brisk, I am genuinly interested.

[@user_375a82]

@@derghiarrinde I haven't seen my beard as I shave, but its probably reddish-grayish I should think. The hair on my head is definitely not gray. I do look after my diet and exercise.

[@abdelilahbenahmed4350]

Thx prof. Michael for this very informative video.As a 72 hour water fasting renews the third of the immunity system and lowers inflammation may be we can postulate that it could improve RDW and increase the number of lymphocytes.And also, longer periods of fasting will not bring a significant benefits as shown by this study on mice.So fasting if done properly is a potent tool.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks Abdelilah, and for the biomarkers, the only way to know is to test...

[@invertage]

I think caloric restriction and fasting has been a needle mover to get me to .72 on pace. 2MAD zero snacking 16/8 daily, 24 hr weekly, 72 hr monthly. I don't pile on the food before or after a fast, I just eat my regular meals.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Definitely possible, although in my case calorie intake is not significantly correlated with DunedinPACE

[@tanakaobi]

Awesome content! THX

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks @tanakaobi!

[@natelf4825]

Another great video. Thank you!

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks @natelf4825!

[@aljosarojac8575]

Thank you for the analysis

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks @aljosarojac8575!

[@newdata]

Research also indicated that CR induces lymphopenia (a reduction in lymphocyte count), but this effect is reversible upon refeeding. Following a period of CR, T cell populations showed high proliferation rates when nutrition was restored, demonstrating the dynamic nature of lymphocyte counts in response to dietary change.............Individuals practicing long-term CR (averaging 10 years) exhibited markedly lower circulating levels of lymphocytes compared to those on a typical Western diet. Specifically, the study noted a reduction in total leukocyte counts, including lymphocytes, neutrophils, and monocytes

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Which then raises the question, what amount of CR is best for lymphocytes, and what's the magnitude of the lifespan extension in that case...

[@billsemenoff]

So I guess if you have high lymphocytes in spite of cr, then you're blessed with longer life! Ok

[@michelangelobuonarroti916]

The good news is caloric restriction is very effective for improving health and longevity. The bad news is that it is so unpleasant.

[@Franky2A3]

Do it for a week or so and you will get use to it. You won't feel as hungry.

[@GH-uo9fy]

@@Franky2A3 Not just that, this lifestyle can make you an outcast. Socializing will be hard and people will think you're rude if you decline their food offer or eat very little. Certainly not for everyone.

[@Franky2A3]

@@GH-uo9fy I agree, breaking the rule once and while will not kill you.

[@LeanOnPlants]

It's only as hard as you make it. I've been a CRON for over 10 years now. I'm 34. Perfect markers. Lower end of normal BMI. On a vegan plant based diet. Only fast 14-16 hours daily.

[@sillymesilly]

When its so unpleasant it is not extending your life but shortening it. Things that lengthen your life: unpleasant at first and pleasant afterwards. Things that shorten your life: pleasant at first and unpleasant afterwards.

[@Battery-kf4vu]

Eating ad lib for a human would be like eating 3000+ calories, so a 20% reduction would be 2400cal, and 40% 1800 calories. I wonder if those people who push CR even more and become skinny could not get a counter productive effect. I read a study where the author said that all those positive results with CR are mainly due to avoiding obesity. Also there is a study showing that the best weight trajectory during life for longevity is to have a normal BMI that increases slightly to overweight in old age. But obesity is clearly negative. There is also another recent study in mice where they used mice with genetic variability, unlike in most longevity studies, and CR lead to a increase in lifespan only when the immune system was not negatively affected. For the mice with certain genetic traits, CR lowered their immunity and shortened lifespan.

[@monnoo8221]

the culprit is in the "ad lib", in bth cases, the mouse and the human. My "ad lib" is sth like 2200/2300. if I eat more for several days, at some point the body simply says. enough and I go to 1600 for 2 or 3 days. It also works the other way round. Such my weight is the same since i was 25. There sems to be kind of a memoy, a set point. That however is given by habits that build across a long time. For the mouse, because it is very small, it has an evlutionary habit to eat a lot if food is available... conditions can change quickly, and unpredictably. Hence, ad lib in those animals always leads overweight. The comparison thus is kind of garbled. Another issue in life span studies is the type of cause of death. That is very different for mice and humans. Mice die mainly from Lymphoma, while we die from infections. So, aggressive CR is working for mice better than for humans.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

In the video, a more specific approach to see if CR may be beneficial (or not) is detailed, which is based on both the mouse and human data...

[@sillymesilly]

Stop using number go by how you feel

[@garethzbarker]

That math doesn't add up. I'd have to read the notes on the study but I'm sure 20% caloric restriction would be 20% below the average TDEE. 3000 is pretty high by the way. I am pretty muscular and lift 3 to 5 times a week and mine is only 2400, my wife's is crazy low, like 1400. It would be 20% less than that. And eating freely could be 5000 calories a day for a human or more. People greatly overestimate their caloric needs. I lost 60lbs a couple of years back. It was a wake up call. Measured everything. By the way, you are slow and lack energy at 20% under and at 40% it's almost depressing. Also, your body adapts, suddenly, 20% under is your new baseline.

[@christiancrafoord]

really cool, thank u for breaking this study down. i struggled trying to interpret everything myself! it's just 2 days of fasting or even 1 day is like a week if we translate to human fasting. im not that disciplined, lol i never thought of eating 6000 calories before a 3 day fast!!! hopefully a lot of the beneficial pathways are the same😄

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks @christiancrafoord-based on thestudy, a key variable is retaining a weekly CR, even with a high calorie day on Friday for the mice... From my experience, that gets difficult to maintain, both in terms of not going even higher for calories on the Friday, and having to fast for 2d after that. For me, a continuous, daily CR is best for long-term maintenance...

[@jamesgilmore8192]

PhenoDelta deserves an explanation as it was the leading effect by a long way. It was the weight loss during phenotypic profiling when the mice were handled around 10 months. It's believed to be a marker of stress resilience. Those with the lowest weight loss, and presumably higher stress resilience lived longer.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

This paper is a gold mine of info, I didn't present all of it-I may cover the others, including the PhenoDelta and BF% in future videos...

[@jamesgilmore8192]

​@@conqueragingordietrying123 Yes I also found lots of interesting things in the paper. They did more extensive blood work than usual, with one notable association being with reticulocytes, which can be measured commercially at low cost. I also liked the temperature data, showing lower body temp as favourable. Also easy to measure.

[@andrewtaylor9799]

In my bloodwork, Lymphocytes and RDW only have gone out of the optimal range when I have been extremely sick. Otherwise they stick in the optimal range, although RDW has come down from about 12.5% to 12.0% in the last few years, perhaps because I've become more serious about moderating carbs and time-restricted eating. I'm 65 as I write this.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

That's good news @andrewtaylor9799, but for most people, RDW increases during aging...

[@silviahayakawa6655]

Great study and video! And differences between male & female?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks @silviahayakawa6655. Only female mice were in this study...

[@viniciusfrancotreinador]

I will die trying! Im ok!

[@richardheck3794]

Great stuff! I remember seeing a separate paper that talked about the mice in the CR group that were heavier in weight had the best longevity. I’m guessing they weren’t able to detect that here? If this is true seems like there is a Goldilocks scenario.

[@jamesgilmore8192]

They also found that here (heavier CR mice living longer than lighter CR mice), although didn't explore the reasons why (e.g. genetic or activity effect?)

[@KST9182]

Question: does 1 x day mouse fasting mean ‘mouse day’ or ‘human equivalent to 1 x day’? Clearly, a mouse day is a significantly higher number of human days… please clarify? Super video & presentation by the way. Thanks. :)

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Mouse day, and thanks @KST9182

[@monnoo8221]

Ineresting point. That would be a factor of 15..30, scaling to 60 days of eaing and quite a lot days of fasting. But I don't think that biochemical proceses run that much differently in mice and humans, as the size of cells and their ingredients is quite the same.

[@larsnystrom6698]

@@monnoo8221 When calculating doses of substances for humans from those for mice, we divide with 12.3 because of the difference in metabolic speed. Something like that would affect fasting time equivalence, I guess. I think one meal a day (or rather night) would be fasting for mice.

[@hopeforescape884]

My question with 40% CR is, how would you do that long term without becoming extreamly emaciated? My TDCE currently with everything accounted for is roughly 2,400 ~ 2,700 cal/day. 40% CR would put me at 1,440 ~ 1,620 cal/day. That seems impossible to keep up for longer than 1 or 2 months, especially since I am already ay 10~12% body fat.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Yep, 40%CR is a major challenge in people. 20-25% is more doable, at least for me

[@gib_life]

How are you going to optimize lymphocytes and RDW? Plasma exchange like Bryan or maybe just donate plasma and see if that has a beneficial effect?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

CR may have optimized RDW, but on the other hand, too much CR may be bad for lymphocytes. Story here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fWbPmZl9nJp0m9k

[@tommyortiz6623]

I would personally rather do a few days fasting than a prolonged caloric deficit especially considering the autophagy benefit.

[@timkrouse345]

I am currently fasting and I want to eat mice 😆 Thank-you for this very valuable information!

[@larsnystrom6698]

One or two days of fasting for mice is a very long timel The human equivalent might be something like one or two weeks, because of the difference of metabolism speed between mice and men. How often are mice fed? Once a day should be regarded as fasting, I would think.

[@nachoperez6874]

I think about 40 days ...

[@SB-rb6kn]

What kind of lymphocytes were associated with the longer lifespan mice...B cells, T cells, or natural killer cells? Lymphoma is reported to be the most common cause of death in mice. More lymphocytes might help. Is it known that higher baseline lymphocytes lead to lower cancer rates in mice, or humans? Were there any autopsy results for the mice? It would be interesting to know the cause of death of a sample of the longest lived mice in the study vs those around median.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

The type of lymphocytes is definitely important-I'll take a deeper look at the paper. Unfortunately, that's an extra step in blood testing that I haven't taken yet, but am getting closer to taking.

[@jamesgilmore8192]

The mice on calorie restriction are not on calorie restrict with optimal nutrition, as the diet is standardised. This means all the macros and micros are reduced by the amount of restriction. Presumably there is more lifespan to be gained with CRON.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Definitely, good point James

[@michaelwatts1186]

Yeah that would be my point to zero in on. Quality of nutrition vs CR vs CR + quality nutrition (high quality absorbable macro and micro nutrients) and it's effect on lifespan, performance, immune system, biological markers, and external aesthetics , along with organ health. Lots of variables to measure. I think we focus too much on increasing lifespan but need to look further in quality of life with that lifespan. Also quality of optimal nutrition is wildly debatable.

[@michaelwatts1186]

Also if you have better nutrition you may not need to CR because your mitochondria can process it better and burn it easier and more efficiently for energy.

[@joeextraknow2854]

A pre-printing of paper from Yale University in this month, studies on 51 longevity interventions on human showed that fasting or/and exercise do not short biological age, neither CR. How do you think and have you ever tried yourself and compared the data? Very interesting though. Love to see your personal finding. Thanks.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

I saw that, thanks @joeextraknow2854. A limitation is the subject population-I'd expect many of those interventions to have a positive effect in less healthy populations. But already healthy, with youthful biomarkers? That's less clear. For example, my data (HRV, RHR, BP) was worse on rapamycin for 1 week...

[@HappyCetacean]

Low lymphocyte count should correlate with poor immune function, and high lymphocyte count with infection, no? I don't see how to use the information other than advice to not get sick. Increased deviation for red blood cell width (RDW) is normally anemia, cancer, or other organ disease, which would make sense to associate with all cause mortality. I did like the data on fasting. Personally, I struggle when I'm fasting to be productive, so it's tough to say if it's worth it.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Very high lymphocytes (> 2000) is more rare relative to the rest of the population who experience an age-related decline. Nonetheless, you're right, there's likely a U-shaped curve, with ~2000 associated with maximally reduced all-cause mortality risk RDW also increases during aging...

[@monnoo8221]

RDW is related to production and elimination of them. They also change their size during their life span. So, if they get removed too quickly, thtey are all the same size, if they live too long, even if partially damaged, because not enough of them get produced, the RDW increases. Any imbalance for whatever reason changes the RDW. For the aging related changes relative vitamin deficiencies is a hot candidate (folate, b12), besides the usual thingy about energy metabolism.

[@larsnystrom6698]

I think it would be a good idea to first try out if different feeding patterns does somethIng to lymphocytes and RWD. But not just feeding. The resulting exercise habits might also do something.

[@mattfisano]

Thank god it was nice not human trail. Imagine being in a cage with fluorescent lights and processed food given to you. Never mind they never see the light of day or fresh air. Sounds like a true controlled study like a city dweller living in NYC. lol. But great presentation.

[@larsnystrom6698]

Mice are nocturnal. I wonder if seeing the light of the day is their thing. If they are like humans, they wouldn't want the same food every day. I'm told we humans eat until we get enough of protein. If mice is the same, that might explain why they are overeating on their standard food. Some of them shouldn't become fat when eating freely, if it's done right.

[@FormazioneInterna-wu1so]

Interesting but the median lifespan of the control group is quite short...

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Yes @FormazioneInterna-wu1so, that's a great point! When using the 900-day rule for median lifespan (kzbin.info/www/bejne/oXzQYaiknLWYpKs), only 40% increased median lifespan...

[@patriciahayes2790]

Ad lib feeding

[@thomasrebotier1741]

How do you get lymphocytes counts from a CBC? Multiply WBC by lymphocyte %age?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

It's data provided by the lab-I'd ask for a CBC with differentials for the next test.

[@Burnrate]

Did I miss it? How much of the daily value of calories was the AL group consuming? We are looking at the calorie restricted groups as a % of the AL group right? If these were humans would the AL group be eating 3600 calories and the 40% restricted groups be eating 2000 a day? The AL group is being fed processed tasty pellets that have no limits.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

CR is relative to the amount AL ate, so 20% CR was 20% less food than AL If the people in your example normally eat 3600 calories as AL, CR would = 2880 It's true that AL can eat as much as they want-there's still a lifespan difference for 20 vs 40% CR, where food amounts were restricted.

[@SuperAtheist]

how does one increase lymphocytes?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

That's the billion dollar question-if conventional medicine had the answer, it would be big business... I follow correlations in my data with diet-one variable is calorie intake, i.e. too low (2080/d average) might not be good for lymphocytes, whereas when a bit higher (2150) lymphocytes are around 1900. It may be a different equation for others, though.

[@jamesgilmore8192]

If your calories are so low your are worried about lymphocytes, I suggest you need to get some flow cytometry done and see what the actual lymphocyte sub classes are doing.

[@monnoo8221]

there are indeed some hot candidates, but the story is complex. Candidates are cd38, IL6 and IL11, because those are messengers across organ systems. CD38 links energy metabolism to the immune system, and high levels are immuno suppressive (via Adenosine, which comes from the breakdown of NAD+), and CD38 raises with age, and largely because LPS and chronic infections, which the body can not get rid of. CD38 actively counteracts the salvage pathway of restoring NAD+. iL6 is immunomodulatory (pro and anti inflammatory) and necessary for a baseline activation. Lots of IL6 is produced by healthy muscles, which get lost in age. IL11 can be detrimental in age: causing sarcopenia, chronic inflammation, and as a result decrease of lymphocytes. yet...nobody knows, because healthily aged people with a good record of parameters are rare, or non-existent

[@KTPurdy]

yes, the data is irrefutable, but no, it's not a fun lifestyle.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

If one tries to jump from no CR to 25%CR, then I agree... In my case, I've slowly cut calories to attain that level over the past 3yr, and have maintained it without those feelings of hunger, boredom and all the other CR stereotypes...

[@solverapproved]

Another study about calorie restriction that uses mouse chow as the standard control diet. Something just doesnt sound right about that, there are so many benefits in healthy anti-oxydant rich foods, i just can't believe that the benefits of eating more of those foods are outweighed by the benefits of calorie restriction. I want a study where the ad lib diet is a whole foods diet filled with a diverse range of anti-oxydant rich and fibrous foods. no more rat chow with added micronutrients.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Fortunately, the diet in this study was whole food-based, not purified (i.e. food components, no actual food), but it was high protein-high-carb-low fat. Whether those are ideal macros (for a mouse or people) is another can of worms, but the biomarker data in the video may be a guiding force for determining what's optimal for macros, micros, body weight, etc, in people.

[@espinosalexis]

But what was the REAL caloric restriction? I think it's time for longevity researchers to clearly establish the ideal feeding and use that as the baseline measure. I definitely think the red curve is the ideal and proper baseline, and then the AL line are poor mice overeating by 40%. This is very important for being able to translate to humans! We simply can't estimate the 40% CR from humans eating ad libitum. Or can we?

[@larsnystrom6698]

And mice are probably not so keen running in their wheel when they just have eaten! Feeding them sufficiently, but with adequate daily fasting might get them running more. My guess is that the CR mice running more made a dufference!

[@rolfpoelman3486]

*stablish *ESTABLISH*

[@evolved.health]

Would have liked to see a CR only group for comparison

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

That's tough to do, as CR mice generally eat all of their food after receiving it, then fasting until the next day...

[@joeextraknow2854]

Thanks Mike! This is huge study considering that many mouses being used. This again demonstrates that omnivores (unlike herbivores) need to be constantly hungry and fed intermittently! This is due to the genetic intrinsic evolution over millions years! Herbivores eat grass continuously with no such “hungry” concept as we understand. I now deeply believe the CR is the way to go. Thanks again for your great work.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks @joeextraknow2854-I agree about the mouse #s, but didn't address omnivores vs herbivores in the study... In terms of CR, a key finding is the magnitude, i.e. 12 vs 20 vs 40%. CR wasn't always great for biomarkers, including lymphocytes, so recommend "CRON-OB", i.e. Calorie Restriction with Optimal Nutrition and Optimal Biomarkers".

[@joeextraknow2854]

@@conqueragingordietrying123. A Agree, the Fasting part is the key too. That actually matches the evolution path of all omnivores: while hunting (fast), as found food or successful hunting prey then fuller eating, or not enough to eat (CR). These CR (hungry), Fasting and Eat fiercely patterns could be embedded in the millions years of evolution path for omnivores. I am just started my Rapmyacin therapy. I would not do the Fasting but will do CR though. Thanks again

[@michaelwatts1186]

That's incorrect, herbivores eat their proper native diet and don't need to CR because if the stay on native diet they will live a long healthy life. And omnivore diet is vague and riddled with vague quantities and types of food that should be eaten. CR is an application to use but I still think there are many details and measurements to flush out.

[@Earwaxfire909]

Is there any data on the mice food ratios of sugars, fats, fibers, and proteins? Protein consumption, vitamins, and high temperature exposure is associated with increased lymphocytes. Sugars and cold temperature exposure can decrease lymphocytes.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Yep, that's a good point-testing which macros are best for longevity is something to look out for. Until then, we can test it ourselves, which I regularly post about on the channel...

[@bgsharma875]

My RDW is low and so is Lymphocytes... Not sure how the two couple... RDW varies from 10.5-11.5 while Lymph 1-1.3K... Neutrophils is about 2K.. Have seen several articles on NLR, Mono/HDL etc. ratios.. Not sure if being vegetarian ( and now close to vegan) has anything to do with it... What do you think low RDW coupled to low Lymph indicate?

[@monnoo8221]

yes it has. key parameters are B12 + folate, and perhaps protein. Your RBC get recycled too fast, or the synthesis of Hb is too low, RDW% goes down. Yet there are many possible reasons. it also could be iron deficiency. but all of them has to be tested by the doctor.

[@bgsharma875]

All other CBC parameters are excellent ( Hg, RBC etc.) and so is Fe panel/Ferritin or Fe+++/Fe++ homeostasis. Although was diabetic for decades, well controlled in past few years with a1C 4.8-5.2, low FI ( 2-4)/good C Pep and most endo parameters ( leptin, Glucagon etc.)... My Bili also goes up above high limit once in a while. B12/folate excellent and so is Homocysteine/HsCRP/IL1/6/TNF-alpha. Recent B3 ( NA, Amide) was low ( < 20) although B6 very high.. Excellent Testosterone, SHBG etc. Only B6 Supplement + WFPB with minimal Oil... I am also G6PD deficient and hence prone to diabetes or glucose Homeostasis issues besides hemolytic anemia but Fe panel and CBC parameters great except RDW and lymphocytes... Not sure what to make of it... RDW varies 10.5-11.9 and Lymp 1000-1200 every 3 months. Mono and Neutro seems fine. Not sure why Bili goes above high limit after good T2D control - It is also considered antioxidant and protective but also shows issues... My GGT/AST/ALT/ALP all are great.. and MRI/CT abdomen is clear.. What do you think is causing Low RDW and Low Lymphocytes... Is it bad? Dangerous? Or other way around... Where are the knobs to do something?

[@bgsharma875]

Sorry take only B12 supplement ( and not B6)

[@rolfpoelman3486]

No testing done with raw food. No testing done with raw sweet fruits. No testing done with raw sweet tropical fruits.

[@jaym9846]

Why are mice who had less to eat, running around more?

[@jamesgilmore8192]

There doesn't seem to be an answer in the paper. Maybe food drive?

[@Franky2A3]

Because they have more energy. If you don't eat breakfast and go outside a do some activity you will have more energy. As the saying goes, the less you eat the longer you live, not to the point of starvation.

[@billsemenoff]

Yeah That's so counterintuitive. My experience with long term fasting suggests it's increased andrenaline and other hormones designed to kick you into hunt food like your life is on the line mode. But mild calories restriction doesn't really do that (for me), I don't think

[@larsnystrom6698]

My guess is that they don't run for a while after feeding. I don't! 🙂

[@nachoperez6874]

They need to keep their bodies hot and they have more energy to look for food . Humans just use more clothes and they lose real benefits from fasting

[@Mufasa9090]

The info on fasting is good, but I don't see the point or relevance of the biomarker stuff, if it's something we are born with and cant be changed, does it matter?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Both RDW and lymphocyte levels can be altered, they're not genetically determined

[@tatiananikolskaya6991]

I wonder if the time itself runs “faster” for mice, who live only 2 years of so vs us? How can we “translate” one or two days of fasting for mice? Wouldn’t it be like two weeks or more of fasting for humans?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Although a day for mice is the same as a day for us, they live much shorter, as you mentioned. However, it raises the possibility that CR with and without fasting may be beneficial for longevity in people. I prefer a more specific approach, including biomarker optimization as a more specific guide.

[@professorbland]

maybe because in low calorie environments the system wants to prolong breeding time in case opportunity to mate is infrequent

[@sillymesilly]

No. There is no such mechanism. What happens when you overeat your body cannot digest all of the food, so leftovers partially digested food permeates body and clogs channels. When cellular channels are clogged major issues health issues arise.

[@sooooooooDark]

i wonder what their bmi/muscle tissue was if at 40% calorie restricted 🤔 i mean they probably just ran thru that wheel thingy which doesnt exactly cause big hypertrophy - so they mustve looked like marathon runners probably - but if one were to optimize for body composition (muscle/strength and around 13% or so bf) one wouldnt want to be marathoner-looking

[@arihaviv8510]

Important to note that marathoners don't just do a lot of cardio. They hit the pavement so they need to recover from all that stress to joints. That recovery comes at the expense of muscle. Cyclists don't have that issue

[@sillymesilly]

@@arihaviv8510they have low muscle density because they under-eat on purpose.

[@derghiarrinde]

Aren't you mistaking correlation with causation in these biomarkers?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

At no point have I claimed causation. All I'm saying is that there is a similar pattern for longevity in mice (low RDW, high lymphocytes) with age-related data in people. Whether that translates, we'll see.

[@derghiarrinde]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 as long as you're fine with it, I am ok too.

[@rmcmillan7413]

Great! If you happen to be a mouse.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Human data that matches mouse biomarker data is presented in the video. The story might be the same.

[@Jason-ju7df]

N=1 medicine SNY Lab at Stanford longitudinal multiomics Dr Michael Snyder Big Data longitudinal profiling Dr. Snyder's work at the SNY Lab uses longitudinal multiomics profiling to collect vast amounts of data from individuals over time. By analyzing changes in a person's genome, blood molecules, and other biological markers, his team aims to identify early warning signs of cancer before symptoms appear. This approach could revolutionize cancer detection, allowing for earlier diagnosis and treatment, ultimately improving patient outcomes.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Yes, I'm a big fan of Michael Snyder

[@sillymesilly]

It will not. Its the same watch until it happens. Nothing about it is preventative.

[@scottmiller2591]

Fasting 1 day for a mouse is equivalent to 3-4 days in a human, or 10 days if you use gastric transit time. Nobody wants to live like this.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

In the video, a more specific approach to see if CR may be beneficial (or not) is detailed, which is based on both the mouse and human data.

[@ocoro174]

time to starve I guess 😹😿

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

The other side of the coin is optimizing biomarkers that may be related to longevity in people, like RDW and lymphocytes...

[@monnoo8221]

always measure basic parameters before and after...

[@wocket42]

1) studies need to be done in humans. Please don't try to calculate actions from a mouse study. 2) I thinkthe term "calorie restriction" is stupid and misleading. You can have protein restriction, glucose producing food restriction, fat restriction. Lumping them together makes no sense at all as humans have completely different sensing paths for those three. Fructose might be a forth. Fat consumption of almost any rate (in humans!) is not interfering with most pathways that are active during fasting. Which makes sense as during fasting the body's fat cells release large amounts of fat anyway, so there is little difference for the metabolism.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

The RDW-lymphocyte data matches human studies (which is shown in the video), which suggests a potential longevity effect in people, too.

[@monnoo8221]

both objections are kind of empty. The first due to ethics, as human beings could not be held under controlled conditions. The second, because the parameters lymphocytes count and RDW are chosen wisely. You would be right with respect to the microbiom, or the main causes of death, which is quite different between species.

[@jamesgilmore8192]

Fair point on 2). This was scaled calorie restriction with a prescribed diet formula, where all the macros and micro where scaled by the amount of restriction.

[@YuraL88]

1) You'll die much earlier than the human study with the same design will have finished even if someone one day has done such a study. 2) It's stupid and misleading not more than "fat restriction" or "carb restriction" in general. But it's how science works: you establish the basic facts first then you study the details to discover which nutrient is the most important.

[@wocket42]

@YuraL88 having no good data is not a good reason to rely in bad data, though