Fate/Stay Night Servants vs Fate Zero Servants

First versus battle on the channel. Ooh, a milestone!
Fate Stay Night is often compared to it's prequel, Fate Zero, but how do the two stack up power scaling vice? Only one way to find out...Quite like the way this one came out.
Part 2 here: • Fate/Stay Night Master...
Contents:
Introduction & Rules 00:00 - 02:55
Artoria (STN) vs Artoria (Zero) 02:55 - 06:14
Cu Chulainn vs Diarmud 06:14 - 10:00
Emiya vs Gilgamesh 10:00 - 13:55
Medusa vs Iskandar 13:55 - 17:43
Medea vs Gilles de Rais 17:43 - 19:58
Sasaki Kojirou vs Hassan of 100 Faces 19:58 - 22:35
Hassan of the Cursed Arm vs Hassan of 100 Faces 22:35 - 24:00
Heracles vs Sir Lancelot 24:00 - 26:45
Conclusion 26:45 - 27:45
I own nothing. Fate Stay Night & Fate Zero and other associated properties is owned by Type-Moon, Aniplex, Kinoko Nasu, Delightworks, and Sony Music, & other respective license holders. This is for the purposes of review & criticism.

[@antoniofaulkner2423]

Note: On what you said about diarmud being better in close quarters. Note that Kotomine placed a command seal on him. Never to fight with full potential against an opponent in his first encounter. That's why he was confident that he could kill saber if the battle continued. It would've technically been their second encounter so he'd be able to use his full fighting potential.

[@nameless_moon]

Cú Chulain technically also got a similar restriction. As he just did a "Scout mission".

[@antoniofaulkner2423]

@@nameless_moon true. But it wasn't reinforced by a command seal. It was just his orders

[@nameless_moon]

@@antoniofaulkner2423 Just rewatched UBW. Cú, in fact, got restricted by a command seal...

[@grimm_satisfaction1292]

On Medea, I can't help but notice how often people underestimate her... Like seriously, just her Class Skills alone are broken af. With A-Rank Item Construction, Medea was able to construct a high-rank Artificial Noble Phantasm which she used to win the Fifth Grail War in one of the Bad Ends; and with A-Rank Territory Creation, she was able to construct pseudo-Reality Marbles, one of which contained a perfect replica of Fuyuki City, complete with fully alive replicas of the citizens. She was able to discern the true nature of the Grail, its corruption, and had figured out how to circumvent these so she could get her wish without Angra screwing her over. What's more, Class Card Medea (who is canonically weaker than regular Caster Medea) was powerful enough to completely destroy Fuyuki City with a single attack, had she not been stopped. And on top of all that, her younger, less experienced self was able to summon a Demon God Pillar. So yeah.

[@mathieu9236]

And also Solomon imself say she is one of the 5 greatest Caster

[@grimm_satisfaction1292]

@@mathieu9236 Yup

[@tahirbhatti965]

DIDN'T KNOW MY WAIFU IS THAT POWERFUL. thnx dude for the info ❤

[@myspacebarbrokenevermindif9892]

Medusa is weaker than iskandar overall, but her Mystic Eyes should automatically shut him down if she gets within a certain range (which she should since Pegasus is faster than GW). In one of the bad ends, it is revealed that you don’t even have to have your eyes open to be stunned by them, and all she’d need to do is kill him while he’s immobile. She hard counters him, and doesn’t have to deal with his nonsense. looking forward to FSN masters clapping the zero masters next time

[@Marionic9001]

There’s a good case to be made that she can win the fight for sure, but Iskandar has better scaling & more ways to beat her. Medusa only really has her two hax moves. What is this Pegasus being faster than Gordeus Wheel thing based on? People keep talking about it in this comment section but I can’t find anything saying so, only that Artoria reacting to Pegasus & dodging it multiple times when she was in more weakened state than Medusa was at the time, while Iskandar can react to & dodge Artoria’s fastest attack & perfectly dodge all of Gigantic Horror’s tentacles that could tag her. I do believe Medusa is bad/difficult matchup for Iskandar even if he’s stronger, so she might take it, but I see Iskandar take it more often than not. "looking forward to FSN masters clapping the zero masters next time" - Heh... ;)

[@myspacebarbrokenevermindif9892]

@@Marionic9001 Bellerophon’s top speed is 400 to 500 KPH and Gordius wheels best travel speed feat is about 300-ish KPH (the chariot was being overtaken by Sabers bike, which was 300+ KPH) He did cross 100 meters “in under a blink of an eye” and “in an instant” when he used Via Expugnatio though, and that rounds out to something like 3600 KPH. So the travel speed of VE > Pegasus > GW. Of course if Iskandar is able to spam VE he can easily surpass Bellerophon in speed, but even then, the best he can do is limit his exposure to the ME’s and kill medusa instantly, he doesn’t have any ranged options and has to get in close and suffer the ME’s effects.

[@Marionic9001]

@@myspacebarbrokenevermindif9892 Ah, I remember now, now I get why people are saying that. Unfortunately, those are those old I dunno why Nasu was so fixated on giving specific things mph or mach label, which are extremely inconsistent with rest of the feats in the same work (Gae Bolg had similar statement of being mach 2 in Hollow Ataraxia, but in the same game it also has 2 or 3 statements of surpassing lightning or moving as flash of light). Pegasus was also stated to fly fast as arrow of light. Then how about Iskandar reacting & dodging Excalibur’s light being calculated 70-90x FTL? Or how in the same novel series where Saber’s bike is from, Saber & Diarmud fight at near Light speed according to omniscient narrator? Or how we have half of the named characters using light or reacting to characters who do? (Rin’s jewels, Altera’s sword, Gawain & Ozy to name few), among countless FTL feats? Those kph values are utter hilarity. Though even if we disregard the wack statements, I guess we can still take that as valid implication of how their speeds would compare. Unless feats contradict it... "Of course if Iskandar is able to spam VE he can easily surpass Bellerophon in speed, but even then, the best he can do is limit his exposure to the ME’s and kill medusa instantly" - Which might be possible. Bukephalus possessed by child Alexander was noted to have lesser power than Via Expugnatio but superior mobility, so if Iskandar switches to that equation doesn’t change that much. "he doesn’t have any ranged options and has to get in close and suffer the ME’s effects." - Unless we count Ionioi Hetaroi, but yeah.

[@tronovonflidder775]

@@Marionic9001 How come you think Iskandar's feat of dodging a non-fully outputted Excaliblast is a factor here? Medusa was dodging similar blasts left n' right in her battle against Saber Alter. (At least in the anime, which is canon like all the rest.) Artoria was aiming for the chariot, and Iskandar jumping out of harms way was if anything, a showcase of his physical speed, not his chariot's. And that's irrelevant because nobody's going to argue that Medusa ain't physically faster than Iskandar. Medusa's Cybele Eyes petrify anyone in her field of view. I don't believe there's ever been described a specific radius, just what she sees. Therefore Iskandar avoiding being petrified with his C rank mana just sounds implausible in an actual fight. Only way I imagine him avoiding it in an actual fight, would be to literally hide behind his army and have his army attempt to launch their spears at Medusa while she's flying, which is pretty much a far fetched scenario if you ask me. Or at least, the chances of Iskandar actually winning like that are next to zero. That's just surviving at that point.

[@Marionic9001]

@@tronovonflidder775 "How come you think Iskandar's feat of dodging a non-fully outputted Excaliblast is a factor here? Medusa was dodging similar blasts left n' right in her battle against Saber Alter. (At least in the anime, which is canon like all the rest.)" - Those were just Mana Burst attacks. Saber Alter used True name Release only to end the fight. Medusa couldn’t dodge in Fate route when Artoria that was more weakened than her used True name Excalibur on her & in Heaven’s Feel same would’ve happened if not for Shirou combining Rho Aias with Bellerphon. "Artoria was aiming for the chariot, and Iskandar jumping out of harms way was if anything, a showcase of his physical speed, not his chariot's." - Yeah I was talking about Iskandar’s speed, not chariots. I based the chariot being faster with it being faster than Gigantic Horror that tagged Artoria multiple times, who could react to Pegasos. "And that's irrelevant because nobody's going to argue that Medusa ain't physically faster than Iskandar. " - Feats over statements my dude… "Medusa's Cybele Eyes petrify anyone in her field of view. I don't believe there's ever been described a specific radius, just what she sees." - This Mystic Eyes tom foolery is really weird to me, why does everyone think it gives Medusa free win when it basically never has? That’s like saying Cu wins every fight because he has spear that can kill anyone. She can't fit Ionioi Hetaroi into her field of vision anyway & would drain herself trying to even do so since it's more cost effective for her to just physically battle armies than to use her eyes (which she prlly can't get off since Iskandar outscales her to the pint of destroying her before anything relevant can be done to him "Only way I imagine him avoiding it in an actual fight, would be to literally hide behind his army and have his army attempt to launch their spears at Medusa while she's flying, which is pretty much a far fetched scenario if you ask me." - His Tactics skills allows him to take best course of action & command his troops to systematically take her down. Does Medusa have stats to defeat Karna or Altera? Certainly not, since Saber Alter was considered unbeatable for her without specific circumstances & help. "Or at least, the chances of Iskandar actually winning like that are next to zero" - Ways Iskandar takes this: 1. Medusa fights him head on like she always does & gets crushed like vs Kuzuki without getting change to unleash her hax 2. Medusa uses Cybele/Breaker Gorgon & Iskandar answers with Ionioi Hetaroi as he’s paralyzed & Medusa gets destroyed 3. Iskandar wants to flex & summons Ionioi Hetarioi like vs Assassin & Medusa either drains herself trying to petrif them or killed by superior numbers & power, even with pegasus 4. The battle is just them both going rump card vs trump card at which point Iskandar outscales, 50 000+ Servants some that are stronger than Iskandar whos superior to multiple dragon slayers of NAMED dragons vs Dragon-level Pegasus Ways Medusa takes this: 1. Medusa uses Cybele on Iskandar who’s not on his chariot (for some reason) & he doesn’t summon Ionioi Hetaroi in retaliation 2. Medusa uses Breaker Gorgon in exact same circumstances

[@adhityapratama7119]

Regarding alexander clash with excalibur, the novel stated that alexander choose to evade a full blown clash, rather head on crash in FSN. And besides her monstrous strenght and mystic eyes is fatal against servant without high Resistance. And its works even without actually seeing her eyes. The question is, wether Medusa can take out Alexander quickly before the army overwhelm her. Vio espugnatio do have origin concept of beast given by Zeus and a divine beast, but Pegasus have higher rank in divinity. And Lancelot fight against Artoria is not a good example, shes a broken hearted fighter at that stage, theyre pretty much equal, with Lancelot maybe have the upperhand due to the likeness of Artoria to dragon and Lancelot legend of defeating dragon-like foes. And wiki said Arondight strenght is durability, it conveyed steadfast even against excalibur, instead amplified strenght/mana blast like Excalibur. (Looking at Lancelot Saber FGO) And You forget about the effect of Godhand, granting resistance to damage that harm Herc upon recovery. Although not very much touched upon, Herc have Divinity, which conveyed another resistance to attack without Divinity, but still got wrecked by Alter(higher output) and Caliburn(plot armor I guess). Gil have to use several anti divinity/A rank phantasm to bypass this.

[@nameless_moon]

Didn't Caliburn's attack also have divinity ? It is basically weaker Excalibur.

[@izurukamakura237]

I really enjoyed the video

[@samn365]

Couple points here, 1. Medusa should beat Iskandar pretty easily the second she takes off her blindfold. He would be nearly instantly petrified. "Rider possesses the Mystic Eyes of Petrification, Cybele, which allow her to petrify anything within her line of sight, even those who aren't looking at her or those with their eyes closed, as they are still looking upon Rider with their mind's eye" 2. As for 100 Hassan vs Sasaki, Sasaki WAS able to hold his gate vs Berserker etc so he might havea chance, but I'm not sure on that one

[@Marionic9001]

I addressed this in the video? Iskandar is ironically faster, at least in reaction speed, shown dodging way faster attacks like point-blank Excalibur & Medusa can’t most likely even hit him with her eyes if he’s flying through the entire fight. If it's gonna become air-battle, Iskandar's chariots casual output surpasses Artoria's max, Artoria who's definitively above dragon slayers in the verse. Medusa is also stated to be on same ballpark as Cu & Emiya who have good change at defeating her, while Iskandar is straight up superior to likes of Altera & Saber Alter whom Medusa herself stated would destroy her in 2 mins. "Sasaki WAS able to hold his gate vs Berserker etc so he might havea chance, but I'm not sure on that one" - That was with help of advantageous terrain, Medea’s magic weighing Berserker down & even then the fight was purely defensive, and didn’t even amount to taking one life off of Herc. Kojirou is definitely strong, but 100 Faces is bad match-up. That's the one I'm most doubtful about.

[@Wandersnatch.]

@@Marionic9001 Iskandar is in not even close to Altera or Salter lol. He could only dodge excalibur by jumping before the beam because of his tactics skill and struggled to close his distance charging gilgamesh. There's only Waver hyping him up and him fighting Altera in CQC during Extella and losing, he could also only fight her there because the Mooncell modify the servants(extra and extella level up mechanics are mentioned in the story and they straight up say they are modified so they can fight armies), like Artoria in extella being so strong and beating all servants from Karl faction alone puts her way above him there. Medusa pegasus likely beat his chariot too since it's faster, provides protection and is more damaging comparing how 10% of it messed up Salter vs how 100% of his messed up Lancelot. Not to mention the eyes being able to just mess him up by looking at him. Lancelot vs Heracles, lancelot would lose too. Round table statements are all over the place saying Artoria, Lancelot, Sun Gawain and Galahad are the strongest of the knights and he lacks the firepower to kill all 12 lifes considering he survived Saber Alter with near infinite mana using Excalibur and Mana bursts. Caliburn wielded by adult saber is A+ while overload is A and mess up with his body so it can't take all his lives.

[@myspacebarbrokenevermindif9892]

100 faced are stated by waver to be pretty much unbeatable unless you have something like an AoE attack (anti-army NP’s and such)

[@Marionic9001]

@@myspacebarbrokenevermindif9892 100 Servants vs 1 Servant is though cookie for most people indeed, even though every single one of them is a jobber.

[@Marionic9001]

@@Wandersnatch. "He could only dodge excalibur by jumping before the beam because of his tactics skill." - Okay, he has better reactions than Medusa thanks to Tactics skill. "There's only Waver hyping him up and him fighting Altera in CQC during Extella and losing" - Hype Iskandar doesn’t disagree with. Also, Iskandar lost to Altera in first encounter because he wasn’t used to his cyber frame nor the moon & was nerfed. After he dusts off Cu, Gawaun & Karna, he takes her on once more & pushes her sh*t in. "he could also only fight her there because the Mooncell modify the servants(extra and extella level up mechanics and they straight up say they are modified so they can fight armies)" - That only applies to Anti-Unit ect abilities, to give them more range. Nothing to do with power. Even if it was power boosting, Cu, Gawain & Karna who he beat up would also receive it, so doesn’t matter anyway for scaling, just makes Altera more impressive for hanging with all these people. "Artoria in extella being so strong and beating all servants from Karl faction alone puts her way above him there." - I don’t know enough about that, but that sounds whack, since that faction includes people who've beaten her or given her trouble in past. "Medusa pegasus likely beat his chariot too since it's faster" - How is it faster. Only thing it has is those outdated statements where it’s speed is measured in kph which is even at odds with other feats from the same VN. F*cking base Medusa is stated to move fast as light in her fight with Salter. "provides protection and is more damaging comparing how 10% of it messed up Salter vs how 100% of his messed up Lancelot." - Iskandar one-shot Lancelot with just basic attack from the chariot not even using Via Expugnatio, and Lancelot is superior to Alter "Not to mention the eyes being able to just mess him up by looking at him." - Again, she’s either getting GG’d before that or Ionioi Hetaroi renders the eyes useless. "Lancelot vs Heracles, lancelot would lose too. Round table statements are all over the place saying Artoria, Lancelot, Sun Gawain and Galahad are the strongest of the knights" - They’re really not, I can provide comprehensive catalog of Lancelot being stated strongest. Only ones other than him who have such statements would be Sun Gawain & I think Artoria has been called strongest knight couple times. Still, by feats Lancelot is superior, he mollywopped Artoria in Zero & she only managed to leave with her life thx to Kariya’s mana going dry mid fight, as well as killed Gawain after matching him for hours. I guess fighting Gilgamesh who one-shotted Artoria in Zero is a feat too, as well as being stated superior to any previous foe in Orleans (includes Salter from Singularity F). "he lacks the firepower to kill all 12 lifes considering he survived Saber Alter with near infinite mana using Excalibur and Mana bursts." - Think of Knight of Owner weapons combined with A (or A+) strength as weapons amped with A rank Mana Burst. "Caliburn wielded by adult saber is A+ while overload is A and mess up with his body so it can't take all his lives." - That’s Saber's version doe? Overload is not given rank for Berserker, however, his Arondight itself is ranked A++, so if you wanna say Lancelot takes 6-7 lives with just one slash…. sure, go for it.

[@bingobongo73]

I disagree with the berserker matchup Knight of owner makes anything Lancelot touches a d-rank noble phantasms which is then incapable of killing Heracles through his own God Hand. Saber alter only manages to ‘stomp’ by having infinite mana + mana burst to steroid her own power. The anime version of this fight also doesn’t show that they fought on equal footing like in the LN on top the shadow constantly interfering so Heracles isn’t exactly a wet noodle in a fight. Lancelot can likely take one life with his strength alone knight of owner does not help. Arondight can take another with it being an A ranked np similar to how Salter initially killed Heracles in HF 2. That’s 2 Salter took another 2 lives by stacking mana burst blasts to get over Godhand’s resistance. When Heracles was at 9 lives left as he had died 3 times prior Saber Alter fired Excalibur Morgan which is equivalent to Excalibur and it did not take the remaining lives. Heracles survives this attack with an unknown number of lives left only to be killed later on by shirou using nine lives blade works after the shadow had removed God Hand. If Excalibur Morgan cannot take 9 lives Arondight cannot do it either. Especially since Arondight hasn’t shown the beam sword capabilities of Excalibur as Arash was able to survive its overload technique in the Camelot Singularity. Heracles would certainly once to this but I’m not confident it could take vast chunks like Excalibur Morgan. Also caliburn taking 7 is anime only as by the times it’s fired Heracles is at 5 lives left. Heracles would build a resistance to Lancelot attacks over that battle as both are berserkers and complicated strategies are beyond them so Lancelot cannot use tactics that saber/archer used against berserker in the fate and UBW routes. It’s just two mad warriors clashing. Saber had to use cover to offset the fact that Heracles would launch her in their clashes. Lancelot has to kill Heracles 12 times with only his strength and his sword that hasn’t shown the sheer destructiveness of Excalibur to warrant burring chunks of lives. Heracles needs to land a couple hits to kill Lancelot. Heracles has a slight advantage in stats alongside skills and abilities better suited for this kind of slugfest. I just can’t see Lancelot lasting long enough to overpower Heracles in a 1v1 Heracles has only been killed in 1 sitting by Gilgamesh(GOB directly counters God Hand) who was also taking potshots at his master which he has to defend against and then against Artemis in the Greek lostbelt where she had an anti world np which blasted away GodHand in 2 attacks so an anti world also didn’t take all 12. Heracles should just win out in endurance as neither are capable of higher planning in this fight. Also this is even more unfair as berserker Heracles has since fate stay night ended used nine lives as a berserker in the okeanos singularities manga though this was likely due to Jason being his master and their personally connection in life. If he has that to his name Lancelot would just die to nine lives but I still think it’s not necessary Great video I just think there’s a reason Heracles is called the strongest in the world.

[@Marionic9001]

Knight of Owner can take lives since every attack he would perform with the items would become A-Rank attack, since his strength is A (or A+ with Arondight out). It’s like how Emiya managed to kill him once in UBW, by firing B-Rank NP & turning it into A-Rank attack/damage via broken phantasm. Artoria also wounded Herc in UBW by slicing his belly open with just her weapon (Excalibur) being A, despite her strength & Invisible Air on top of the sword both being lower, so no doubt it will function the same. And he can pick up stuff endlessly, so multiple different ways to kill Herc. Arondight Overload will take 7 to even 9 lives since far weaker Holy Sword like Caliburn could kill Herc 6 (or 7) times, despite being projection that is a rank inferior (and differences between ranks can be numerous times). Saber Alter took about 9 in Heaven’s Feel Movie, but there are statements by Nasu that Excalibur could prolly take all 12. That’d be logical, considering degraded form of sword that was prolly 2x weaker than Excalibur could take 6-7 lives. "Great video I just think there’s a reason Heracles is called the strongest in the world" - Thanks man. In similar vein, there’s a reason why Knights of the Round Table are considered Top tier among Servants.

[@ducanhdinh8823]

@@Marionic9001 won't the thing Jerc became immune to is Lancelot's Str then so it is like 1 lives. Android is another 1 and the buff Str give him another 1. So only 3.

[@ducanhdinh8823]

@@Marionic9001 Berseker Lancelot in Zero did not have Overload Arondight.

[@Marionic9001]

@@ducanhdinh8823 "won't the thing Jerc became immune to is Lancelot's Str then so it is like 1 lives." - Sure, like if he punches him dead, his punches become ineffective. Any other method is fine. Saber Alter used Mana Burst to kill Herc twice in their fight, it worked because they were done via different methods (exploding & setting him on fire ect.) so Lancelot can do the same. Knight of Owner basically gives endless attack options & his A Rank atk can be applied to the attacks dealt with them, despite their low ranks as NPs. We’ve seen this be effective on Herc already… "Berseker Lancelot in Zero did not have Overload Arondigh" - Prove that he didn’t.

[@ducanhdinh8823]

@@Marionic9001 if we talking about Str there is only 2 way to apply that damage aka blunt force damage and piercing/slashing (this type is the same just different penetration and area of effect) damage similar to how Mana burst burn and explode (or 3 if you think slashing and peircing is different). So it is 2 lives for normal A Str, 3 lives for the NP and boost Str. That is like 5 lives ( 8 if you want to be generous). Nah you point that out so you need to prove Berserker Lancelot has that NP in Zero.

[@thirdplanet4471]

You ought to do more of these servant battles

[@atpr3241]

On Heracles vs Lancelot: This is a 50/50. Arondight may or may not take all 12 of Berseker's lives as it's still heavily debated whether Excalibur itself can take all 12 lives(any phrasing for all material is always "maybe"). Heracles also has BC. Essentially, if Lancelot doesn't land a critical, it's over. Toss up match

[@ssjokg4952]

Saber Alter couldn't take 12 lives so why would the normal Saber. Also, Berserker Lancelot cant use Arondight like his Saber class can.

[@Razealuxe]

Lancelot has no physical way of getting past Heracles God Hand. The lives are only part of the issue. The rank of the attack and noble phantasms used are required to be A rank or high and Heracles gains resistance to the things that kill him. This means that after a certain point Lancelot will be dealing no where near enough to kill him all 12 times before he gets killed. It's a war of attrition and those will usually go in Heracles favor. There parameters are roughly equal but Lancelot has exactly one weapon that can hurt Heracles and eventually it'll be doing less and less damage. Even the parameter boost he gets from pulling out His sword doesn't really matter because his three physical stats are already A and reaching EX is not something he can do as that rank is only reachable under very specific situations. Also while Arondight is being used Lancelot can't use For Someone's Glory or Knight of Owner. Heracles is unbeatable without a large amount of A rank Noble Phantasms or without the help of others.

[@atpr3241]

@@ssjokg4952 -Nasu Interview says Excalibur "may" be able to take all 12 lives with a proper master and calls it a 50/50. -Shirou PoV puts Saber and Berseker equal three times on seperate occasions. I don't see it, but that is why I said there is a debate. Arondight being Anti-unit might actually do more than Excalibur. The assumption is basically whether you want to take Nasu or Shirou seriously over feats.

[@ssjokg4952]

@@atpr3241 Saber Alter is with a more than a proper Master and failed both in the VN and movie. I dont remember an interview, I remember Ilya mentioning how at full power could have killed him at his current state, with only 6 lives. Shiro is an unreliable pov that didnt even know how to read and rank Servants a few days ago. Anti-unit doesnt mean that it does more damage to single targets. And as I said, Lancelot will have to actually hit him as well.

[@mathieu9236]

Fgo confirmed that an anti planete NP can take all the live of Heracles

[@TheTenebrys]

The problem children here are archer shirou since he's actually bullshit and kind of solos almost everyone,and artoria is either a really stronk saber or absolutely slaughters everyone depending on who her master is since her overall power depends on the mana available Gilgamesh is a problem as well but shirou proved he can take him down,the rest of the fights mostly conclude themselves or come to a quick and easy ending

[@Ferch0nes]

Wouldn't Iskandars magic resistance be so low that Medusa could petrify him near instantly?

[@acenyang1227]

Wasn't Cu command spelled to hold back for most of stay night?

[@MrShirotomo]

Just in the early fights he was command spelled to fight every servant but not kill them. So Cu fights and survives a fight vs every single stay night servant except Gil. I dunno if it's Canon but I think it's also implied that Kirei is being a dick and not providing mana to him too.

[@mathieu9236]

Heracles is stronger than Lancelot the weapon of "Knight of honor" is not strong enough to make any dommage to heracles because he negate any weapon lower than A rank , and heracles become resistsant to any weapon who kill him so if Lancelot fail to kill heracles 12 live in only one shot He is dead (in a late chapter of fgo a major god Use an anti planete NP on heracles who survive so even Lancelot can take all his live with Arondignt Ovearlod)

[@Marionic9001]

"Knight of honor is not strong enough to make any dommage to heracles because he negate any weapon lower than A rank" - Lancelot has A-Rank strength doe, so any attack he deals can potentially kill Herc. "heracles become resistsant to any weapon who kill him" - And Lancelot can just pick up more weapons/stuff & apply his strength to them. It’s like Gate of Babylon, with C-Rank weapons but A-Rank attack power. Heck, maybe he even steals his axesword & chops him up, since weakened Artoria could pin it down (That’d be awesome to see animated!). Arondight Overload kills him bare min. 6 times too, possibly 12 times considering how Excalibur level swords should be superior to Caliburn & it’s projection that can kill 5 lives (projections are degraded by entire Rank, so A+/A Rank Caliburn is worth 5 lives). "so if Lancelot fail to kill heracles 12 live in only one shot He is dead" - Not really, considering how people inferior to him have handled Herc in the past (like Saber Alter). "(in a late chapter of fgo a major god Use an anti planete NP on heracles who survive so even Lancelot can take all his live with Arondignt Ovearlod" - It killed Herc in one-shot though, after he blocked it twice, with help of Casters buffing him, what are you talking about? Also, NP classifications refer to range (or effect in case of special classes like Anti-World/Divine/Dragon ect.), not power, otherwise we’d have numerous Anti-Planet (and beyond) NPs. If you want to find how it compares to a Holy Sword you can do that, but in this case it’s not necessary, since Holy Swords already have feats of killing 6 to even potential 12 lives of off Herc. Round Table tier is crazy man.

[@mathieu9236]

@@Marionic9001 ok I understant the problem you forget one thing who totaly change the fight : Any weapon who is not A rank noble phantasmes or not can't hurt heracles even if they are use by someone with A++++++++++++++ in strength so any weapon create by Lancelot Knight of owner is useless except if they are already A rank noble phantasm

[@izurukamakura237]

@@mathieu9236 yeah as far as I know you can't really ooga booga heracles with just pure strength unless you can just ignore concepts to get past god hand

[@Marionic9001]

@@mathieu9236 Yeah but no though, God Hand’s description literally states that A Rank strength is all that is needed. Quote from OG VN: “For him to be damaged, he must be hit by A-RANK ATTACKS or above, requiring the opponent to have at least an A-rank "normal attack" registered through their Strength statistic, A-rank magecraft, or an A-rank Noble Phantasm“. For comparison, B Rank attack like Gae Bolg can be more deadly than A Rank punch, but conceptually will not work on Herc, unlike the punch would. Lancelot applying that A (or A+) strength to all of his weapons will produce similar results of Saber Alter using variations of Mana Burst for different attacks.

[@mathieu9236]

@@Marionic9001 no you didn't understand this A strength doesn't work for the same reason Gae bolg is useless (for the fun fact gae bolg Can kill heracles but Cu need is Rune to Boost gae bolg to A rank) the weapon of Lancelot would be D rank so even if they have the strength of A rank NP they are D rank so they wont work God Hand is a cheat ability given to humanity greatest hero dont underestimate it , Gilgamesh play with Lancelot but he say if Heracles doesn't help illya he could possibely win. And dont forget heracles ise very strong not juste endurent when Lancelot take is first live heracles could juste grab him and break is bone with pure strength

[@danielguardado4574]

1. Saber Alter's statement refers to her mana supply not fire power. "IN A SENSE, she is stronger then when she was in life." this sense is in mana supply since she has infinite. However Nasu states in another Q&A that when she was alive she had equal fire power to Gilgamesh and that he only has a slight advantage in cunning and clairvoyance. This means that Salter has infinite mana but alive Artoria has greater fire power since she is equal to Gilgamesh. 2. In the Medusa vs Iskandar part you got many things incorrect. Excalibur Morgan is stronger then Teardrop Photon Ray actually. They clashed in an interlude and Salter completely annihilated Altera. She even Called Altera a disappointment. Another thing to note, there are other statements that say Excalibur is superior to Ionian Hetaroi such as the one in Fate Zero that says Anti Fortress nps have far greater output then Anti- Unit and Anti Army and the other statement that says that it is unknown that a single Excalibur blast is capable of wiping the entire army or not, meaning that it is a 50/50, it may or may not be but wiping out even half causes the Reality Marble to dismantle effectively still getting rid of it. The statement from Waver is mearly his thoughts not fact. the narrator in Fate Zero states Excalibur to be superior. The comparison for between Altera and Salter also doesn't work since Salter herself says her power was weakened in the first singularity and that her tenacity wavered. As for Altera vs iskandar, as I said, Salter called Altera a disappointment implying that she is superior in cqc to Altera, this is further proven when you read the materials for Fate Extella where it says that Artoria was summoned by the mooncell specifically to deal with Altera. Iskandar was also summoned as a top servant meaning his mana supply was greater then Altera and this is also an Altera who was not receiving backup from her master, she didn't start receiving backup till later in the story. They fought again later and Altera beat him pretty easily. 3. You are completely wrong on Lancelot. The statement about him being "said" to be the strongest knight of the round table is actually not true. It comes from him defeating Gawain, but he actually had to stall Gawain until Nightfall cus he could not defeat Gawain during the day. This is further proven in the Camelot singularity when they call Gawain the strongest since he has endless sun meaning that stall tactics would no longer work. Artoria scales above Sun Gawain as shown in the garden of Avalon novels and stated by Gawain himself in Extella. Lancelot in the Garden of Avalon Novels also states that Artoria is superior to him. The only reason why Artoria seemed to be losing to Lancelot in Zero was because 1 he had multiple buffs applied to him (Mad Enhancement, Arondight AND Arondight is effective against dragons) and 2 she was having a mental breakdown. In other works such as Extella link when she sees Berserker Lancelot she simply accepts him and challenges him. Arondight =/= Excalibur, major difference in power due to classification and Excalibur is stated to be the strongest holy Sword, there is no comparison here, ranks are not an argument heck even Medusa's Bellerophon is mentioned by Nasu to take only 1 or 2 lives, Lancelot is not taking all 12. All in all this is the way the scaling goes when you use all feats and statements, Artoria > Heracles > Gawain (sun) > Lancelot > Gawain (night). You say Gawain stomps Artoria in power when the sun is active which is false, I can tell you havent read the Garden of Avalon Novels. Sun Gawain gets 1 shot by Vortigern and Artoria comes to his rescue, she fights Vortigern for hours straight until she tells Gawain to get up and help her where they finally defeat Vortigern.

[@guesswho8556]

Charlemagne = Karna/Sun Gawain and he couldn't move Artoria an inch even with help from Tamamo and Nero. Lancelot and Gawain also state multiple times Artoria is in her own tier beyond their own.

[@danielguardado4574]

@@guesswho8556 👀

[@guesswho8556]

@@danielguardado4574 lancelot with ME + Arondight was slightly above non full power Artoria having a mental breakdown. ==> summary: lancelot > Artoria overall and can kill heracles 12 times. 👁️

[@danielguardado4574]

@@guesswho8556 Big brain

[@Wandersnatch.]

@@guesswho8556 But she never took all 12 lifes on her own, even with superior firepower. Berserker lancelot options are cutting him once with his sword, and using overload while taking a toll on his body(and it failed to kill Arash). After that he has nothing.

[@heavengroly4588]

Umm it was never said the berserker Lancelot have the overload version of arondight it just the base sword is rank up ++ Which would kill Herc probably 2 times a most Because salter also was able to cut through Hercules and it took like 1 live Lancelot doesn’t scale above artoria ppl forget the artoria was pretty much heart broken when she figure out berserker was Lancelot. Iirc I think it said she lose her will to fight So Hercules would clap Lancelot berserker. Maybe 5 lives at most.

[@Razealuxe]

Never ever bring up Avalon because A it makes Artoria invincible and B she can't be summoned with it and only gets it through help from Shirou. Islander doesn't beat Medusa in anything but parameters. Her mystic eye's alone fuck him over. Then there's Blood Fort Andromeda that it's able to steal the life force of even servants while there inside it meaning his army and he himself gets cucked by that. Lastly down play Pegasus because it's got the durability of a dragon which is the strongest phantasmal beast species in Fate and Bellerophon is a anti army noblephantas that can hit up to 300 people which just for comparison is 200 more then Gordius Wheel which has a max target of 100. The ONLY thing Iskandar has against her is it's arguable his chariot is faster but that's it. Medusa has more ways to win then he does. Everything else I agree with.

[@Razealuxe]

Ment to say don't down play Pegasus.

[@ssjokg4952]

His chariot isn't even faster. And something everyone forgets, if she keeps using her Monstrous Strength she will become Gorgon. Not the giant and still human like version. The true Gorgon. If Iskandar amd his army couldn't do anything to Gilles monster then they are even more fucked against Gorgon.

[@Marionic9001]

"Never ever bring up Avalon she gets it through help from Shirou." - Fate Route gets it tho. I said that external amps are not taken into account, but since that is a permanent amp that changes Fate Route Artoria going forward… it’s alright to use. "Islander doesn't beat Medusa in anything but parameters. Her mystic eye's alone fuck him over." - Her eyes only cover tiny portion of the army & will either be destroyed before she can do any meaningful damge or just refrain from using it, since she can defeat more without draining herself with it, according to Hollow ataraxia. "Then there's Blood Fort Andromeda that it's able to steal the life force of even servants" - It barely effects em though in all the instances we see it used against Servants & needs seals to be placed in order to even activate. Useless NP for battle… "while there inside it meaning his army and he himself gets cucked by that." - It barely covers a school building yet army of 50 000 people get trapped? Right. "Lastly down play Pegasus because it's got the durability of a dragon which is the strongest phantasmal beast species" - Which is absolute fodder to Iskandar who scales above even named dragons in the series. "Bellerophon is a anti army noble phantasm that can hit up to 300 people which just for comparison is 200 more then Gordius Wheel which has a max target of 100." - Area of effect isn’t same as AP. Gordeus Wheel’s casual output is higher than Artoria’s full power attacks. Also if you wanna g by numbers, Ionioi Hetairoi has range of +50 000 people, so... "The ONLY thing Iskandar has against her is it's arguable his chariot is faster but that's it. Medusa has more ways to win then he does." - Iskandar’s win conditions: Overpowers Medusa via higher scaling before she can activate her hax, fly & avoid her hax, chariot vs Pegasus flight battle, Ionioi Hetaroi. Medusa’s win conditions: Cybele before Iskandar does anything, Breaker Gorgon before Iskandar does anything, and even if he’s caught by petrification, he can summon Bucephalus/army to help him out so even that’s bit iffy.

[@Marionic9001]

@@ssjokg4952 Same Gorgon that got torn apart by Ushiwakamaru, or some variation? I think they meant the final form one, since Gorgon (Avenger) wasn’t invented when that statement was made. I totally forgot about that one, makes the match much more complicated… In character she wouldn’t use it & she’d prolly get destroyed before that can happen, but…

[@ssjokg4952]

@@Marionic9001 I clearly mentioned the monster version.

[@thorshammer7883]

How strong would you say the Beasts are in Fate Grand Order? It's obvious they surpass Gilgamesh in raw power but by how much in a powerscaling term is something that remains an enigma that deludes me. For instance it is hard for me to compare Tiamat to Goetia.

[@shacat3864]

Tiamat is a tank while Goetia is dps, its hard to compare

[@atpr3241]

Tiamat doesn't have much in firepower but her authority basically transforms the world into primordial mud. It'll take a few days for it to happen but no one born on Earth can guard against it. She has tons of immortality hax. Geotia also has immortality as long as his 72 Demon Pillars and throne remain but Tiamats authority is conceptually stronger. Geotia does have actual firepower though. AAS can theoretically pierce the Earth and is the best showcase of Anti-planet NP.

[@Razealuxe]

Considering there literally walking world enders and can't be truly killed it's pretty easy to assume there some of the strongest things in Type Moon.

[@thorshammer7883]

@@Razealuxe Safe to say they are above planet busting with some conceptual power, haxs, and defenses. Am I correct with that statement? I do not know how that would translate to dimensional power though.

[@Marionic9001]

Beasts are on same tier as Grands, who have Saint Graphs a peg above regular servants, which is stated to make numerical comparison useless according to Goetia, Andersen & others. This basically mean that Grands Servant containers are on dimensional tier above regular Heroic Spirits/Divine Spirits containers, so regular Servant defeating one is impossibility, unless something very specific happens (BB specifically creating things to seal Kiara’s abilities, Goetia & Tiamat getting weakened by outside factors ect. ect.). Beasts also have higher dimension statements & feats on their own, like Tiamat’s Sea of Life, or Mara’s & Kiara’s Multiverses. As for on what tier of dimensional feats regular Servants have access to… well, you might remember from my other video. There is lot higher scaling for them too… Goetia & Kiara were gonna fuse with the planet itself, and planet in Nasuverse is actual GOAT of the series. About how Beasts compare… there are few statements comparing them… in Babylonia, Kingu & Ushiwakamaru state that only Goetia’s Ars Almadel Salomonis can rival Tiamat when she’s not even reached her full power. However, afterwards, Goetia himself claims that he has no equals, aside from Solomon. Kiara believed she could reach Goetia’s level (with her hax at least) upon maturing into full Beast, but didn’t get a change, so take that as you will. She and Mara are supposed to be equal halves. No idea how Cath Palug stacks up to the rest though. Tamamo Vitch should be the weakest one, since she only became a candidate as far as I know.

[@brandonkirk6498]

grant video do you think you could do Fate Prototype/Siver Sky vs Fate/Zero too

[@everdream4200]

Great, did you edit it yourself? Please I would very much like to know. Also, Iskandar's guys can't use noble phantasms themselves as that function is locked.

[@Marionic9001]

I edit my own stuff.

[@everdream4200]

@@Marionic9001 I do too and it's such a time killer. Thinking of getting an editor.

[@justjames4]

Marionic90: Exists. Ben Chang: TiMe tO bLuRt OuT aN iRrElEvAnT mEsSaGe! (0:01)

[@JoshuaDMarti]

Lancelot is superior than regular Artoria, that's a fact, but I don't think that's a real argument to say he woudl win against Heracles. If not even Saber Alter, who was stated by Nasu to have the same firepower as Gilgamesh and he would only win by a slight adventage, wasn't able to fully kill Heracles in their fight in HF and even needed some assistance from the shadow to accomplish her feat, I doubt Lancelot would manage to do it.

[@Marionic9001]

The help shadow gives her in HF only amounts to taking one life from Herc, rest of the fight makes it clear Herc is getting slaughtered. Normal Artoria under decent Master is also confirmed to be able to kill Herc 12 times by Shirou, Illya & Nasu himself. In FGO, Saber Alter also kills Herc 1v1 in first Singularity.

[@brandonkirk6498]

I think so to the real question is not can Lancelot kill Heracles 12 times the real question is can Heracles kill Lancelot once before Lancelot kills Heracles 12 and the answer is yes Her can kill Lancelot before he can get kill 12 times and I think that is more likely

[@justaweirdtree9645]

If Lancelot has an armoury with him, he might be able to win. But on an even playing field, not so much.

[@corinsalisbury5597]

Lancelot superior to Artoria? That’s a good one

[@ninjad9124]

@@corinsalisbury5597 apparently no one understands that mental trauma and basically a panic attack makes artoria weaker than usual

[@redarrow2036]

Emiya (Archer) could Saber..... not in a fight like what's in context but Emiya starts cooking, Saber's taking a good loss haha

[@aaravgaur7]

Actually, remember, Sparks Liner High, yeah, there is a decent point to be made, that Emiya could take Saber, plus, he knows everything about her, AND, if he was able to access all of the benefits of being a Counter Gaurdian(Benefits he did NOT have access to in the VN due to being from the future), his UBW basically acts as a costlier but stronger version of Gate of Babylon.

[@ajharris2690]

@@aaravgaur7 yea if he couId get cu's gb out its over but other than that idk if he has the ap to trueIy get to her

[@Omega-uc7wl]

Cu actually has a better noble phantasm than darmuid because while there both b rank by default cu can make his a b+ by throwing it and and make it an a rank with his runecraft

[@gabrielecalabrese2906]

Might I add that When Cu faught Artoria was just testing the field and was restricted by Kirei, whe Artoria wanted to follow him he stated with no daubt that he could kill saber if she followed.

[@risekujikawa7763]

about the Cu vs Diarmuid THANK YOU!. people really saying Diarmuid will beat Cu in a fight because he had a better showing against Artoria is stupid, Diarmuid's 2 NPs Gae Bolg literally has those 2 skills innate in his Gae Bolg but the difference is he has more skills on his spear lmao Cu is a top 3 servant in Ireland while Diarmuid is around top 15. the gap is huge especially if they're in ireland also on your Lancelot vs Hercules. Herc actually wins that fight 100% of the time just because God Hand nullifies Lancelot's Knight of Owner NP because Lancelot's NPs arent A rank when he helds him even tho the skill KOO is A++ it doesn't mean his weapons are A. its like EMIYA'S UBW the rank of the UBW itself is A+ max but he actually has no A rank weapons thats why he didn't defeat Hercules in their fight in the Fate route. so the only chance Lancelot has against Hercules is with Arondight and that can only kill around 7 times because Arondight is not as strong as Excalibur or Caliburn (Caliburn has the same output as Excalibur if weilded by a king thats why in the Fate route Artoria killed Herc with Caliburn because she was holding it thus the output is just as strong as Excalibur)

[@aaravgaur7]

He does, Emiya absolutely has A rank weapons, remember that he took 6 lives? Wtf are you talking about, he literally killed berserker 6 times with a massive injury and without even activating his Reality Marble. I agree that Lancelot wouldn't win though.

[@risekujikawa7763]

@@aaravgaur7 EMIYA was completely healed by the time he fought Heracles. also EMIYA is in his best class (archer) while Herc was in his worst class (berserker) and EMIYA still only took 6 lives lmao

[@aaravgaur7]

@@risekujikawa7763 What do you mean 'Only?' Most servants wouldn't even get past 2 or 3, since a weapon can only kill Hercules once before he gets a massive resistance to it, that's why you need to take out a bunch of lives with a single attack to destroy him, most servants would fail after the first 2-3. Furthur, we don't know whether Emiya is in his strongest class, technically he can be summoned into 4 canonically, (Assassin, Caster, Berserker, Archer, maybe Saber?) we have no way of knowing whether it's his strongest(Probly stronger than Berserker), Also, EMIYA definitely held back since he didn't use UBW, Nine Lives, or Excalibur, also, he didn't even target Illya the way Gil did, that would have definitely allowed him to take a bunch more lives. That's not even mentioning the fact that he is out of his comfort zone as an Archer locked in close combat, whereas Hercules is absolutely in his element in a close quarters fight. Hell, that's even ignoring that Archer could use Fragrach, and use a version of Gae Bolg that would hit Hercules, or better yet, Illya. In his strongest class, it's not even a contest, Herc would win, hell, if Herc had access to Nine Lives, he would probably win. But you are massively underestimating EMIYA, if you think that he couldn't have won that fight, EMIYA could have won with ease, he simply chose not to.

[@user-rg7mv9yo7b]

UBW's Max is A++... Which actually gets degraded to A+ rank, but regardless, Archer stated himself he could create a close replica of Excalibur at the cost of his life. His A ranked Noble Phantasms are degrade to B rank, but he could bring them back up to A rank by turning them into broken phantasms. He killed Heracles 6 times, meaning he has to at least have performed 6 different A rank killing methods.

[@Hugo-qf1wb]

Zerkerlot IS just built different

[@gabrielecalabrese2906]

A beats B and B beats C doesn't mean A beasts C here, they're not numbers. Certain skillset might be advantegeous in certain matches and disadvantageous in others. Whe you beat Heracles he becomes immune to whatever you killed him with so you gotta be able to kill him with 12 different weapons/ skils. Even if you take more lives out of him, you're not killing 12 lives in one hit so you'll always need more than one devastating weapon/skill.

[@Marionic9001]

Point was more to showcase how Lancelot is objectively stronger than Artoria, on top of being more VERSATILE, Artoria, who can kill Herc 12x…

[@Emperorwolf999]

Serious question, what if medusa used her phantasms and eyes on Iskandar 's steeds?

[@Marionic9001]

Ho, that might be useful, since we don’t know if they resist anything. I’d argue it’s just the same situation if she would target Iskandar, he’d respond with Via Expugnatio or Ionioi Hetairoi before the petrification ect. finishes… though if it’s mid-flight & Iskandar is taking it easy for whatever reason, it’d be funny sight for sure if he’s steeds suddenly becoming statues ends up grounding him. Though, in the video I failed to mention a potential counter to Medusa’s eyes (& likewise to Breaker Gorgon), that being the targets divinity, since it has been shown that one’s with certain amount of it resist certain haxes in the series, like could her eyes even effect a god? It’s never specifically mentioned how divinity interacts with any Mystic Eyes though, so that’s just a guess…

[@Emperorwolf999]

interesting!@@Marionic9001

[@user-en8tt4uu3g]

Fate/Stay Night assassin's well destroy 100face 10/10

[@r.k845]

This video is full of misinformation. Saber: alter never defeated Hercules, the movies are non canon and don't play by the rules. The VN states outright Hercules is equal to saber alter and straight up would have won if it was 1v1. Lancer: Lancer got wiped while he was heavily nerfed by command seal. He easily wins by a landslide Archer: eh pretty accurate Rider: Rider matched saber alter for 12 minutes not two. Either way this is an easy win for Medusa. Bellerophon immediately destroys him even in his reality marble. There's literally nothing he can do so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Assassin: yeah lol. Berserker: Hercules wins for the most part. Mana cost could easily fuck Jet over. Strength literally kills him only once (most of your arguments in the comment section has you misunderstanding this. A rank strength gets nullified once he's killed by it. The weapon is irrelevant). Aron- whatever it's name is could take 12 lives but that depends on whether he can even get it off. He doesn't defeat Hercules in single combat.

[@r.k845]

@@scaw29 The soldiers are irrelevant. You only need to kill iskandar. She either just needs to avoid the army with her superior top speed or divebomb him with Bellerophon.

[@r.k845]

@@scaw29 She still had A rank speed.

[@Marionic9001]

"Alter never defeated Hercules, the movies are non canon and don't play by the rules. The VN states outright Hercules is equal to saber alter and straight up would have won if it was 1v1." - Nope, in the VN exactly same happens, except Alter arguably stomps harder. Herc swats away Assassin & battles Alter till Shadow shows up. It restrains Herc only once & he breaks out in short order (unlike in the movie where it helps Salter kill him once & hampers him longer), then Salter just Excaliburs him dead. - It is stated multiple times that Saber Artoria can defeat Herc when going full power & in fact does so 1v1 in FGO’s First Singularity. Cu wasn't really nerfed in the true sense of the word, but he was ordered to not kill anyone so no NP use for him, which yeah, is big nerf (despite this he used Gae Bolg on Saer, Cu resists Command Spells confirmed?). "Rider matched saber alter for 12 minutes not two. Either way this is an easy win for Medusa. Bellerophon immediately destroys him even in his reality marble. There's literally nothing he can do so" - It’s true that Medusa fared more than minute against Saber Alter, but that’s only because Alter was fighting defensively to delay them. The VN makes it very clear that if Alter goes on the offensive or attacks even remotely serious the fight ends. Medusa died immediately in the bad ending where Shirou goofs up & does not use Rho Aias. Meanwhile, we have Iskandar being the one putting that level of fighters on defensive & beating them up. Altera, Gawain, Karna, the list goes on. Berserker: Hercules wins for the most part. Mana cost could easily fuck Jet over. Strength literally kills him only once (most of your arguments in the comment section has you misunderstanding this. A rank strength gets nullified once he's killed by it. The weapon is irrelevant). Aron- whatever it's name is could take 12 lives but that depends on whether he can even get it off. He doesn't defeat Hercules in single combat.don't play by the rules. The VN states outright Hercules is equal to saber alter and straight up would have won if it was 1v1. Again, Herc get’s killed by the attacks, not stats. A-Rank punch, A-Rank cut ect. Nasu has clearly explained this & we see this Saber Alter in the movie where she kills him with Mana Burst by applying it differently. Arondight Overload alone can probably take all 12 lives considering it has 2 different attacks (Sword Beam & actual Overload), since even ranked down Caliburn can clear half of the lives with its beam. I’m not thrilled that the series is pushing 20 years & people still have no idea how God Hand works…

[@r.k845]

@@Marionic9001 I do know how God hand works, rather it seems as though you don't if anything? God hand gives a large resistance to anything that kills Hercules not an outright invulnerability. An annoying retcon by Nasu I know but I believe he stated that in an interview. In the movie saber alter just forces her way through the resistance via brute force. The VN makes it incredibly clear that Hercules is as strong in a fight as alter at minimum. Not only does Zouken state that Hercules would win if it was a 1 on 1 matchup but the VN states their strengths are equal at that. Nothing suggests in any way that saber alter could defeat berserker in pure sword combat, he has vastly higher agility stats and saber alter loses her precognition. Alter being utterly broken comes from her ability to spam what amounts to a nuclear bomb endlessly, in an actual sword fight she's nothing exceptional. Oh and she never used Excalibur on him in the VN, that was mana burst. Shirou was close enough to be able to hear her if she activated it and the destruction was far too limited to be actual Excalibur. At best she took 1 life in that fight (something she only managed to do precisely because Hercules had his major advantage of agility over alter taken away). Yes Cu was nerfed, go look back on lancer vs archer round 2 and it makes it very explicit that Lancer was shackled in his first fight against archer. Not just because archer gets dominated in the second round compared to the first but because the narrator practically spells it out. Saber alter wasn't counteracting because she literally couldn't, rider is far too fast for her to go on the offensive so alter was waiting for rider to slow down so she could attack. There is no choice where shirou doesn't use rho ais btw. Don't know where you got that from.

[@r.k845]

@@scaw29 Yeah, it says she can beat him because she can endlessly invoke Excalibur. Nothing there contradicts my statement.

[@kingkobo2332]

given the context and rules I'd say the winners are: Zero Artoria (considering both Artoria would need their master to given them Avalon to use it), Cu, I can see an argument for both archer and Gil being the winner for this case I'll say Archer as the winner, Iskandar, Gilles (Medea needs the right environment to actually do the crazy things she did), considering the army slaying Cu refused to fight Kojiro in a 1v1 imma go ahead and say Kojiro here, imma say for 100 face over cursed arm man's skill just isn't good enough in my opinion, since we are greatly weakening the effect of mana cost than I'd say it'll be close but with Lancelot having the light edge so I'll go with Lancelot. my score coming out as Zero-4 (5 including the crused arm v 100 face) Stay night- 3 it's important to note I did not use feats and statements outside of Stay Night and Zero I was also a lot stricter on the no outside help from masters. my scenario was if they were summoned and immediately fought with no prep thus items and prep that would require the servants master to give said servant I am not taking to consideration. finally, this is just my opinion from my understanding of things so by no means is this to be taken as law nor as a "I'm right, you're wrong sort of comment"

[@mathieu9236]

Saber is stronger in stay night because Rin is the master who could let her use full power. Gilgamesh is stronger than Archer, shirou almost beat him because he underestimate a human but even with what Gilgamesh only lose one arm and shirou was out of mana after that. For Caster are you serious ? He territory just make her almost Invincible don't worry she is far stronger than Gilles even outside, she is in the top five caster when Gilles is one of the weakest of Caster, Outside her territory she just for exemple beat arthoria and Gilgamesh need to shoot many times for killing her. Heracles is a fucking monster even if Lancelot can probably take half of is live the strength of Heracles is so high that he will finally kill Lancelot in few hit, don't forget in Berserker Heracles is always a better fighter than Lancelot.

[@kingkobo2332]

@@mathieu9236 Every time I’ve seen Medea do something she prepared for it the only casters I’ve seen capable of doing pretty good off the rip in a seconds notice was Gilles and avicebron. Which is what swayed my decision for that. As for artoria I was using shirou as her master as he’s the one who initially summoned her but with rin yeah I’m willing to agree on fsn pulling through

[@nameless_moon]

​@@kingkobo2332Medea is pretty smart and cunning while Giles doesn't even have a stable mind to begin with. Bet how many seconds Medea need to destroy Giles' book after the fight start ?

[@kingkobo2332]

@@nameless_moon that’s a fair assessment

[@flygonkerel781]

Artoria should be literally the same in all scenarios since you stated that masters dont matter.

[@Marionic9001]

You misunderstand. I'm looking at the strength Artoria herself is manifested under in each Route, without Master influencing anything else, same for all Servants. Think of it as us looking at Zero Artoria with her good parameters compared to STN Artoria with weakened ones, but neither receives any Mana or other help from Kiritsugu nor Shirou, they have just their own gas tank to carry them. Masters only keep them manifested but don't factor otherwise (though STN Artoria canonically doesn't even have that going for her). That's what I meant. If we didn't talk about the state they were manifested under, otherwise how would we even know what any Servants Parameters are ect.

[@bluebearie7230]

have to keep in mind, Cu in the first encounter with Saber and Archer was held back by the command seal. that he could not fight seriously. When he actually did against Archer in the 2nd fight, Archer, even with his Mind's Eyes couldn't keep up at all and had to compromise to a style that either dies in 1 shot or barely survive. So it's really hard to say Zero Lancer is a better fighter. At the very least, by the speed and power alone, Cu is just that superior. Not to mention his rune magecraft which could easily land him in a Caster category. For Saber, it's really hard to say too, because if it's Avalon, Kirit also could have given her willingly, unlike Shirou who discovered he could do that by accident. So, i think it shouldn't be brought up, as it's a form of Master's assistance. But just Rin as a master alone should be enough to make her stronger than in Zero version (unless Kirit gives her Avalon, but the rules state that there's no Master's interference, so no.) For Gil, Shirou basically plot armor through. It's actually very unlikely in an actual analysis

[@thorshammer7883]

How strong do you think Proto Arthur Pendragon would be? He is the true Arthur afterall.

[@Marionic9001]

He is just as true as Artoria is, what are you talking about? Both are about equal, though Proto has additional skill (Giant hunting) and parameters that aren't exactly same, though this might just depend on the Master. When Manaka was Proto Saber's master his parameters should definitely be his max since that's best master available, but he still had comparable parameters to Saber as Rin's Servant, with better endurance but far inferior luck, and Rin isn't on Manaka level, since no-one is. Proto's Excalibur is also ranked higher for some reason, despite FGO confirming that the swords work under same rules of seals.

[@thorshammer7883]

@@Marionic9001 What I am talking about? Oh I am being nostalgic because Proto Arthur Pendragon is my favorite and I like him alot better as a character then Artoria. Hopfully he will have his time to truly shine in Fate one day. The guy is awesome and deserves it.

[@thorshammer7883]

@@Marionic9001 Plus he's the most accurate version of the Arthurian legend which is a extra favorite point in my books.

[@heavengroly4588]

@@thorshammer7883 so u don’t like artoria bc she a female

[@thorshammer7883]

@@heavengroly4588 Excuse me?

[@ballmanearny255]

I don't think fgo feats are always viable

[@Marionic9001]

Oh? Why only sometimes then? When is it specificallyviable & when not?

[@ballmanearny255]

@@Marionic9001 lol obviously when your title is comparing fate stay night and fate zero. Then you should ONLY use the materials from those series

[@Marionic9001]

@@ballmanearny255 ….So you do think that there’s a difference between characters in FGO compared to STN/Zero, despite them being same characters then?

[@ballmanearny255]

@@Marionic9001 yes different masters. And as you may already know, in Fgo, some servants CANNOT use all of their NP's

[@Marionic9001]

@@ballmanearny255 "yes different masters." - And mostly same parameters. ironically. Only people I can think of that have clear differences in FGO are likes of Herc & Karna that have no access to God Hand or Armor of the Sun. Is there something in particular you think is wrong about FGO feats I brought up? I only brought up feats by solo servants, so ones with Masters like in this vid should only upscale if anything…

[@ssjokg4952]

With the exception of Gilgamesh amd Saber, FSN Servants beat FZ Servants any day of the week. -Medusa can fly so the army is irrelevant, her Bellerophon is stronger and faster than Gordius Wheel and her Mystic Eyes will petrify the whole army and Iskandar instantly. She does not even need to caught him off guard. And Iskandar evading Excalibur at point blank is bullshit. Urobuchi doesn't know what to do with Servant skill. Diarmuid didn't even have knight tactics in Zero; Saber acted stupid just because Urobuchi needed her to. -Medea will kill Gilles before he even opens his book. -Cu is superior to Diarmuid. Has runes and his Gae Bolg will instakill Diarmuid who has shit luck. -Heracles will bury Lancelot. There is nothing Berserker Lancelot can do that will hurt Heracles more than 2 times. And even if he does he must first actually hurt him. You really cant be serious here. -Sasaki is at a disadvantage against 80 Hassans but he was able to fight back Heracles and make Cu give up on fighting him again. Also fought full power Saber while he was fading and was still blocking her way. -EMIYA cant win if Gilgamesh takes him seriously. -Zero Artoria can only really beat Shirou's Artoria.

[@Marionic9001]

"Medusa can fly so the army is irrelevant" - Bucephalus/Gordeus Wheel flying & fire-support from army of Servants isn’t relevant? "her Bellerophon is stronger and faster than Gordius Wheel" - Based on what exactly? Artoria can react to it & dodge it when she’s in more weakened state than Medusa, while Iskandar can react to & dodge her fastest attack & perfectly dodge all of Gigantic Horror’s tentacles that could tag her. And saying it is stronger is also borderline laughable, since Gordeus Wheel’s casual power output is above Artoria’s max. True, they both bop when faced by Excalibur (even when Via Expugnatio was used by Iskandar) but it’s Poseidon's power vs Zeus' power. Pegasus is also stated to be on level of a Dragon & Iskandar easily scales above likes of Siegfried, Artoria & Lancelot who’ve all killed actual named dragons & not nameless fodder ones. "her Mystic Eyes will petrify the whole army and Iskandar instantly." - Unless she gets destroyed before it happens, by like 50 000 Servants. Also, whole army? Slow down, she can’t even fit 10th of it in her field of vision, remember how just Avenger’s shadows in Hollow Ataraxia were major trouble because of this? She will drain herself quicker than simply fighting them, which isn’t gonna work either. I admit that there’s good change for Medusa to win, (only via Breaker Gorgon & Cybele, before Iskandar activates Ioinioi Hetaroi, Bucephalus or Gordeus Wheel) but Iskandar scales far higher than people who have good change at defeating her according to Nasu (Cu & Emiya according to Nasu), or heck, even Saber Alter, whom Medusa stated could destroy her 2 mins, despite Alter’s slowness allowing her to tag her multiple times with Cybele. "Heracles will bury Lancelot. There is nothing Berserker Lancelot can do that will hurt Heracles more than 2 times. And even if he does he must first actually hurt him." - Lancelot can prolly kill Herc 12 different ways just by using his A-Rank strength in conjunction with random crap he picks up with Knight of Owner (weapons will be nulled, but not the attack which will be A-Rank). He’s also on similar skill level so it’s give and take, but if we’re to add Arondight & Overload, he definitely can, since even weaker Holy Sword’s that are mere projections like Caliburn can take away 5 lives. Also, Lancelot scales higher than multiple Heracles killers, like Saber Alter & normal Artoria, via being superior to numeral Gawain, stated to be strongest Round Table member & being straight up stated to be superior to all previous foes in Orleans singularity, which includes Alter who in Fuyuki Singularity killed Herc 1v1. "Sasaki is at a disadvantage against 80 Hassans" - Or 100, depends on the source how many can be manifested at once (it’s def more than 80 since 10 weren’t dead by time Iskandar sh*t stomped them all) "he was able to fight back Heracles and make Cu give up on fighting him again." That was with advantageous terrain of Ryudoo Temple. with Herc, he also had Caster’s support (and maybe even Kuzuki). And even then those aren’t equilevant scenarios, as he’s defending vs 1 foe, versus 100 people surrounding him with projectiles from all sides. "Also fought full power Saber while he was fading and was still blocking her way." - Again, Kojirou is better against Quality vs Quantity. He can’t defend vs hundred dirks on equal ground. Also, if you think STN wins all fights but Saber & Archer ones, why not talk about Cursed Arm vs Hundred Faces? "Zero Artoria can only really beat Shirou's Artoria" - What is Zero Artoria gonna do to Avalon?

[@ssjokg4952]

@@Marionic9001 -What fire support from the army? How excatly are their javelins gonna do anything against Pesasus's increased abilties and defense??Also its top speed is 100 km above Gordius Wheel. -Artoria hasnt dogded Bellerophon. And she didnt dodge the Pegasus either. "Her body is blown away. That which should have nullified any possible impact could not even slow the charge of the Pegasus. "Fuh…!" She cannot block that blow. The only possible measure is to jump and evade it. But even if she does avoid the attack, the trail is enough to chip at her protection. She will eventually take a direct blow if she continues like this. The white light comes swooping down. The Pegasus glides down from high above, mows Saber down without touching the rooftop, and returns to the sky. Pursuit is impossible. There is no wall to run up, and even if there were one, no one would be able to catch that Pegasus." And that is just Pegasus without the increase in power from Bellerophon. >While Iskandar can react to & dodge her fastest attack, tentacles. Urobochi cant write fights based on their skills and stats. Sorry but you wont find anyone taking him evading Excalibur ON FOOT seriously.An dif he was that fast then Waver would be dead from the acceleration. He also didnt evade all the tentacles. He was captured just like she did and need help to escape. >since Gordeus Wheel’s casual power output is above Artoria’s max. The casual output failed to kill Lancelot or do more than a scratch to the Giant Monster. Stop joking. >but it’s Poseidon's power vs Zeus' power. Irrelevant. At the very least the bulls dont have any mentioned abilities, unlike the Pegasus. >Iskandar easily scales above likes of Siegfried, Artoria & Lancelot who’ve all killed actual named dragons & not nameless fodder ones. Great imagination there. I dont know how or why you want to think this but no it isnt true. >- Unless she gets destroyed before it happens, by like 50 000 Servants. You know the meaning of the word instantly?And she doesnt even need to petrify them all. The RM will become unstable if a large portion of the army is petrified. >remember how just Avenger’s shadows in Hollow Ataraxia were major trouble because of this? You mean the infinite number of shadows?Yeah i can see how THAT can be a problem. >but Iskandar scales far higher than people who have good change at defeating her according to Nasu (Cu & Emiya according to Nasu), or heck, even Saber Alter This is a joke right? You cant be serious right? Iskandar has better skill than those? >Lancelot can prolly kill Herc 12 different ways just by using his A-Rank strength in conjunction with random crap he picks up with Knight of Owner The attack will be his Strenght rank. Which will be nullified. >Arondight & Overload, Berserker doesnt have Overload. >Lancelot scales higher than multiple Heracles killers, Scaling in Fate doesnt work. I hope you will realize this at some point. Also funny cause Saber Alter & normal Artoria did more than he did against weaker enemies. Berserker Lancelot witH Arondight couldnteven kill a mentally broken Artoria that wasnt even fighting back. >why not talk about Cursed Arm vs Hundred Faces? Hundred Face wins. And? >What is Zero Artoria gonna do to Avalon? FSN Artoria isnt summoned with Avalon. FSN Artoria with Avalon also won against Gilgamesh by trying to time the activation to Enuma Elish, which she had to get hit by again and again . Most of your points are just wrong based on the source material or you use scaling which just doesnt work in Nasuverse.

[@Marionic9001]

@@ssjokg4952 Responding to all of your other comments in this thread too since you're so eager commenter. Please respond here from now on if you have further arguments :D "What fire support from the army? How excatly are their javelins gonna do anything against Pesasus's increased abilties and defense??" - Like million Javelins from people that some are stronger than Iskandar who can One-Shot Lancelot & force him to retreat, beat Cu (Medusa’s rival according to Nasu) & Gawain (Cu’s superior according to Extra) & Karna (everyone’s superior according to some source or another) "Also its top speed is 100 km above Gordius Wheel." - Those are outdated & inconsistent numbers that are even contradicted by Pegasus in VN where it’s stated to fly light arrow of light. And even if we use those feats to say that ‘well, the difference is still about as vast’ that doesn’t excuse the feats of Artoria reacting to it, or Via Expugnatio multiplying the chariots speed. You even gave me exact quote of her reacting to it & dodging, it’s power was only thing that allowed it to reach her, not speed. Really, did you not notice words "she cannot block that blow. The only POSSIBLE measure is to JUMP AND EVADE IT. But even if she does AVOID the attack, the trail is enough to chip at her protection. She will EVENTUALLY (ie. after few dodges) take a direct blow if she continues." Anime showcases this as well. "And that is just Pegasus without the increase in power from Bellerophon." - That is just to command it to attack due to it’s docile nature. Even still, Medusa used it on Artoria who reacted & blew it and Medusa away with Excalibur (while she was in more weakened state than Medusa was at the time) without the horse or her being able to move out of the way or do anything, while Iskandar in same situation saw it coming, grabbed Waver & jumped multiple meters, while the light was literally on his face. "Urobochi cant write fights based on their skills and stats." - Don’t cry to me about it, feats take precedence over statements like stats. I know it’s incredibly wonky & funny that Iskandar just ends up being faster than whole of STN cast with his feats, but it be like that sometimes. "Sorry but you wont find anyone taking him evading Excalibur ON FOOT seriously." - Gilgamesh did exactly same in the same novel later too btw. "An dif he was that fast then Waver would be dead from the acceleration. He also didnt evade all the tentacles. He was captured just like she did and need help to escape." - Checking the fight & that doesn’t happen. Can’t find that on the novel either. "The casual output failed to kill Lancelot or do more than a scratch to the Giant Monster." - Rider One-Shot Lancelot by simply running over him in their first encounter & he was forced to run for his life. Artoria only killed him via cheap-shot combined with him getting weakened by losing his master. Artoria can’t scratch the Gigantic Horror either & needs True Name Release of Excalibur. "At the very least the bulls dont have any mentioned abilities, unlike the Pegasus." - What are you talking about, they have, Zeus’ thunderbolts & Via Expugnatio that multiplies the power of the chariot? You problbly don’t want to hear what those thunderbolts do in Lostbelt 5? It’s not like they scale but just saying... "Iskandar scales above dragon slayers? Great imagination there. I dont know how or why you want to think this but no it isnt true." - Iskandar while still nerfed & having to get used to his cyber frame & Moon Cells environment beating Cu (rival to Round Tablers), Sir Gawain (among Top 3 of Round Table) & Karna (beyond Round Table tiers & equal to sun amped Gawain) Martha’s punches beat named dragons & she and Georgious aren’t nowhere near top Round Tablers that Iskandar scales to… "she doesnt even need to petrify them all. The RM will become unstable if a large portion of the army is petrified." - You know the meaning of before she has change right? Kuzuki classroom scene all over again man. Anyways, she can’t fitthe army into her range at all. Plus, the more she petrifies, more she’s drained. Using it even on one target like Saber Alter quickly exhaust her. Nasu has gone on record to say that more cost effective way for her to fight army is physically, not with her eyes. "You mean the infinite number of shadows?" - More like ceaselessly incoming amount of dozens to hundreds at time that all could fit into Emiya estates borders. Iskandar’s army might just as well be endless to her. "This is a joke right? You cant be serious right? Iskandar has better skill than those?" - Here’s Iskandar while nerfed beating Cu, Gawain & Karna, then fighting Altera: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6LNYneCmdhpn5I "The attack will be his Strenght rank. Which will be nullified." - A-Ranks don’t ruin Herc now? I must’ve missed something. A-Rank attack produced via hitting Herc with random stuff will be effective since each method will be different. A-Rank stone throw. A-Rank rubble ect. Emiya killed Herc in UBW this exact way according to Nasu, actually. He shot B-Rank (ranked down by projection) Galadbolg, but made it into A-Rank attack via broken phantasm. Saber also slashed his chest open in UBW with invisible air because Excalibur is A Rank... "Berserker doesnt have Overload." - He definitiley does tho. Uses it in Extella & FGO both & is never stated to lack it in Zero. If we o by logic ‘he didn’t show it there so doesn’t have it’ Artoria doesn’t have True Name Excalibur in Lancelot fight either since she didn’t show it there. "Scaling in Fate doesnt work." - Yet you’re trying to argue me about it’s workings, saying that my scaling is flawed, which implies current scaling must exist. Or was this some self-defeationist argument? Please tell me that you aren't seriously saying that to my face while scaling Fate to me. "Berserker Lancelot witH Arondight couldnteven kill a mentally broken Artoria that wasnt even fighting back." - Excerpt fro the novel... - "she couldn’t move; she had reached her limit. There was no way to defend against the next attack.” Also her being mentally broken didn’t make her stop fighting, what, you think saving Britain means that little to Artoria & she gave up on life because her friend hated her? Please reconsider your low opinion on her. The reason given in novel is verbatim stated to be because SHE COULDN’T DO ANYTHING. Another excerpt: “Strongest sword wielding Servant? Who had fabricated this? Now she was but a small boat in raging storm. Facing Berserker’s black sword, she could only give resistance and suffer the attack; she couldn’t even make single decent retaliatory blow.” "Hundred Face wins. And?" - I mean you said STN wins all but 2 matches so I was kinda interested why'd you think only Gil & Artoria fights go to Zero if you think 100 Faces wins... "FSN Artoria isnt summoned with Avalon." - You probably didn’t hear the part of the video where I said ‘as they appear in their respective shows’. Avalon becomes part of Artoria’s arsenal in Fate Route…. Or would it make you feel more comfy if I just said Artoria with Avalon vs Zero Artoria then? "The A rank STR will work once because THAT's the method of attack." - Think of it as Saber Alter using Mana Burst to empower her attacks, but replace Mana Burst with Lancelot’s Attack Power & Lancelot using random objects powered by that. "Saber with barely any mana didnt do even a scratch against Herc and that lead to a bad end. Ilya is talking about a full powered one." - Saber with barely any mana is relevant to discussion… how? I never said Illya was saying that. I said that weakened Artoria from same route with full gas tank could kill Herc 6x (as that’s what Illya says in that bad end). "Caliburn's power is raised to Excalibur when wielded by a true king." - Here’s excerpt from Fate complete material: ”It is not as strong of a sword as Excalibur as the swords of kings are often lowered to the role of fancy decorations due to being symbols of authority.” The FGO statement refers to it reaching same scale of power (so same ballpark & not even exactly same) with cost of it being destroyed. "Lancelot absolutely wont do more damage with Overload than Excalibur Morgan did." - Never said he would? Just that he’d do similar damage? "Where is Overload?" - He can do it in FGO & Extella & it is never stated that those versions have it as special trait. It is special function of the sword, not his class. That’s like saying that Excalibur loses it’s beam if Artoria is in different series.

[@ssjokg4952]

@@Marionic9001 >Javelins You compare those Servants to defense as strong as a Dragon? Using Extella of all this as well? What strength do those soldiers have?EX? No, it doesnt matter that they are stronger than Iskander. Their attacks wouldnt touch Pegasus with Bellerophon. >Whose are outdated & inconsistent numbers that are even contradicted by Pegasus in VN where it’s stated to fly light arrow of light. Using hyperboles or metaphors for feats? The VN describes Herc's attacks as capable of "tearing down mountains". Yet he barely wrecks a street. >that doesn’t excuse the feats of Artoria reacting to it, When? She did jack shit against Pegasus and when Rider used Bellerophon she put a huge distance between them before descending. So yes Saber had time to react by firing Excalibur. > or Via Expugnatio multiplying the chariots speed. But that is it's top speed. BTW the VN uses "instantaneous movement" to describe Pegasus with Bellerophon as well.So it means jack shit for either. >But even if she does AVOID the attack, the trail is enough to chip at her protection. So she isnt evading the entire attack, just the body of Pegasus, just like what Lancer did against the bulls....Not so amazing. >That is just to command it to attack due to it’s docile nature. Wrong. It raises its abilities further. One rank and AC +100. That's from the VN status page >(while she was in more weakened state than Medusa was at the time) Bullshit. a)Shinji is worse than Shirou since he doesnt evenhave magic circuits. b)Rider used Pegasus already so all she had collected at scholl was gone. c)Saber has her dragon core/mana burst to keep her going even without consuming souls. >Don’t cry to me about it, feats take precedence over statements like stats. I know it’s incredibly wonky & funny that Iskandar just ends up being faster than whole of STN cast with his feats, but it be like that sometimes. Feats must make sense. Rider evading Excalibur by jumping upwards, while holding Waver and Waver not being killed by the acceleration is massive bullshit. Or is Waver stronger than who knows how many Servants? >Gilgamesh did exactly same in the same novel later too btw. You mean the one where Saber wasnt aiming at him? Gil wasnt at point blank distance, wasnt already speeding towards her, and he was also at least unable to do anything after it while Iskandar was nonchalant about it? >Checking the fight & that doesn’t happen. Can’t find that on the novel either. The novel doesnt have either but the anime as both. >Rider One-Shot Lancelot by simply running over him in their first encounter & he was forced to run for his life. Did you read what I wrote? Failed to kill. > Artoria only killed him via cheap-shot combined with him getting weakened by losing his master. Which is relevant how? He had all the time to do that with or without Arondight which adds a bonus against dragonkin. He didnt do shit. Berserker didnt get weaker gradually. He suddnely stopped. >What are you talking about, they have, Zeus’ thunderbolts & Via Expugnatio that multiplies the power of the chariot? You problbly don’t want to hear what those thunderbolts do in Lostbelt 5? It’s not like they scale but just saying... So what did they do against the tentacle Monster? Emmmm nothing. >Extella Iskandar Yeah keep the jokes away from here. You could take Mata Hari and still beat everyone and the game would allow it, story or arcade mode. >You know the meaning of before she has change right? I am guessing that the army and Iskandar are now Speedsters? >Using it even on one target like Saber Alter quickly exhaust her. The fight lasted 10 minutes while she continously used it on her . Which is more than what a RM can last. FYI IH last barely 5~ minutes agaisnt the monster. And RM generally dont last long, so give around 10 mins against a normal enemy as well. > that all could fit into Emiya estates borders. which she was limiting herself in. >More Extella bs. Again, you could use ANgra and still beat someone like Goetia if the game wants you to. It is no different than an Arcade's story mode. >A-Ranks don’t ruin Herc now? I must’ve missed something. Not after the first time. The method is the same; His STR rank. >Emiya killed Herc in UBW this exact way according to Nasu, actually. He shot B-Rank (ranked down by projection) Galadbolg, but made it into A-Rank attack via broken phantasm. Saber also slashed his chest open in UBW with invisible air because Excalibur is A Rank... Those two arent the same thing and IA is a different NP from Excalibur so no ,thats not how it works. >He definitiley does tho. Uses it in Extella And Archer can use Excalibur. Doesnt matter for normal settings. >FGO Quite a bit of difference between that and Extella and even the Saber version. No different than Saber Alter's mana bursts. >If we o by logic ‘he didn’t show it there so doesn’t have it’ Artoria doesn’t have True Name Excalibur in Lancelot fight either since she didn’t show it there. This makes no fucking sense. If Berserker LAncelot cant use Overload because he is too dumb, even tho he has it, then there is no reason to think he will use it against Heracles. >which implies current scaling must exist. No it means that scaling doesnt exist. It is all about compatibility. the reason why Gil is at the top isnt Ea but because he can use the right tool against the right enemy if he wants to. >Excerpt fro the novel "Before Arondight’s relentless attack, Saber’s holy sword gave out a groan. Her sword of light that promised victory-it had long since become meaningless, in the hands of its owner who had lost the will to fight." How nice of you to skip the important parts. >Also her being mentally broken didn’t make her stop fighting, what, you think saving Britain means that little to Artoria & she gave up on life because her friend hated her? "Since he was thus unwilling, thus filled with hatred-in that case, apart from using her body to receive the sharp sword that he swung, there was no other method of recompense.At the exact moment that Saber decided to completely abandon resistance-suddenly, Berserker stopped moving." That and if you ignore the entire backstory given during the fight that exist there just to show us how much gaslighted Saber is at the moment. It is as if Urobuchi has misjudged her character(and powers).It isnt like he has admitted to it..... >Avalon becomes part of Artoria’s arsenal in Fate Route…. So lets give Lancelot Gil's NPs since they become his at some point. And in any case Avalon worked that well because Gil was playing at first and Saber manage dto time teh avtivation after actually having to get hit by Enuma Elish/or its waves after it was off set by Excalibur. All Gil had to do was use full power Ea at the start and Avlon would be useless. >-think of it as Saber Alter using Mana Burst to empower her attacks, but replace Mana Burst with Lancelot’s Attack Power & Lancelot using random objects powered by that. That's not how it works. GH has chagned into instead of nullification it get an enormous increase in defence. Salter can increae her output 3 times at best before having to use Excalibur. Is Lancelot going to increase his arm str like that?No. You are comparing totally different things. >I said that weakened Artoria from same route with full gas tank could kill Herc 6x That's really Ilya's guesswork, and you assume that Saber under Rin would just double the damage somehow. >The FGO statement refers to it reaching same scale of power (so same ballpark & not even exactly same) with cost of it being destroyed. And that's what happened. So...what even is your point? >He can do it in FGO & Extella & it is never stated that those versions have it as special trait. It is special function of the sword, not his class. That’s like saying that Excalibur loses it’s beam if Artoria is in different series. Already addressed Extella and FGO. Considering that some NPs actually need a sane mind that can call their true name or, like in Herc's case, motor skills yes classes do matter. If Overload is degraded to a normal mana swing then it just sucks for Lancelot.

[@Marionic9001]

@@ssjokg4952 Responding here... "Again, scaling doesnt work in Fate." - Can’t be scaled huh, and why is that? Because there are inconsistencies like in every story ever made? That’s not disproving scaling (logic) that’s just excuse not to try & find consistency. This is something people usually pull when they can’t no longer argue their thesis with logic, but you still make the effort to do so by commenting back to me, so… what the f*ck? Kinda bummer too, since now I have no idea why you even bother scaling fate while saying it can’t be scaled? Or are you talking that it CAN be scaled in certain circumstances & other times not? Am I misinterpreting something? But hey, we can talk about the things you think break the scale in Fate if you want. The particular examples about Shirou you gave out is a great examples on how Fate relies on scaling, logic, plotpoints & writing around problemst to explain away how far weaker characters can beat people they do not scale to (Shirou being Gil’s Kryptonite & all is again, good example, otherwise scaling breaks if Gil get's beaten via just strength), so sure, let’s go for it. Leave your grievances here & I’ll see what I can do to address them. You have lot to say about scaling for a guy who says Fate can't be scaled, but I'm not exactly eager on answering when all you say is default nonsense by your own logic. I ask of thee one more time… are you sure that you can’t scale Fate & thus all you’ve said is just nonsense that is not worth talking about? I’ll gladly answer your comment depending on the answer & we can have fruitful discussion.

[@juneriders2872]

Why the commets are so full of people downplaying Lancelot? He is literally stated to be stro ger than Artoria idk what you all complaining about.

[@Marionic9001]

I kinda understand where people are coming from, Herc is supposed to be this OP beatstick with very op ability, so of course there are people that just can’t see him get beat by likes of Lancelot, since he rarely acts on his hype in the series (Camelot Singularity had him not doing anything too wild for example, while Herc is always made out to be big deal).

[@juneriders2872]

@@Marionic9001 I see, yeah, respire being fue strongest in the round table, his feats in Camelot are not really the impressive, and, in the other hand, he is usted yo Type other characters like Arash surviving Arondight or being Killed by Mr. Gamer Agravain who still barely has any description of his own abilities.

[@Marionic9001]

@@juneriders2872 Yeah. Despite being extremely powerful in canon, he rarely gets to show it off, while Herc has plenty opportunities to paint a picture on what an badass he is.

[@mathieu9236]

Lancelot is very strong yes maybe one of the Strongest but heracles was just too much

[@jonjoh6634]

Subtitles.

[@memeuniverse8671]

If it was team matches zero wins 0 dif

[@mathieu9236]

No the opposite, in a team match the useful servant is caster, to bad for zero team their caster suck. According to bad end Medea buffing Saber or Archer is enough to win the war and beat Gilgamesh, now giving her 6 servant to buff, this is a stomp.

[@ludwigkoopa3343]

@@mathieu9236 Lets be honest, even all the fate stay night and zero servants wouldnt be able to beat a serious gilgamesh. Avalon can block Ea, yes. But NOTHING or NOONE have an answer to sha naqba imuru. That is so fucking overpowered. He only needs to win once out of unlimited possible futures and then just do exactly what he has to do. He can even match some grand servants with that ability.

[@mathieu9236]

@@ludwigkoopa3343 Gilgamesh need to watch all the possibility one by one and is too proud for paying attention to some possibility. Saber under Medea buff was enough to beat him in some bad end.

[@catbot5521]

Ha! I knew that Herc would job to Lancelot.

[@carlweeper7436]

How does herc job against Lancelot?

[@catbot5521]

@@carlweeper7436 watch the video

[@r.k845]

@@catbot5521 The video is wrong so no.