Lugia’s feats in that movie are hardly consistent with rest of their appearances, while Hoopa primarily has feats only in that movie & few other things… same kind of outlier stuff as Arceus getting destroyed by a fodder of the week. "Personally, unless a movie isnt mention in the anime, I really don't think they arent worth considering canon" - Suit yourself, however, this video considers every piece of Pokemon media, and movies are definitely part of that.

@@Marionic9001 fair enough

Ain't Xeno ppl got nothing to fear from a guy who couldn't even protect his family.

@@Marionic9001 What?

@@zeinmohammed4370 I'm just messing around. What makes you think so? About Kratos in particular. Interested to hear.

@@Marionic9001 Well , I don't debate , but you can ask warrior z about it , he has outerversal scales for kratos

More like the remnant of the fan theory community’s sanity, am I rite?

@@Marionic9001 Hm...

Mega Man is considered strongest fighting robot in later appearances even after everyone’s aware of Duo, which is not at all unreasonable seeing to how he’s seen getting stronger over time, via upgrades & fighting constantly stronger threats (Double Gear System from 11 being most blatant example), while Duo hasn’t been implied to do so. In just one game Rock went from getting One-Shot by one of weaker Star Droids in the opening, to defeating Sunstar, who was considered super weapon even among Star Droids. Not to mention direct feats like ones in Rockman Strategy, game where Luna and Apollo, pretty much two randos, just beat up Duo. Mega Man ect. are able to beat them up with no problems, & them injuring Duo was never treated as impossible or particularly massive feat either. All to say even IF he didn’t scale to Duo in Mega Man 8, he definitely should later.

@@Marionic9001 I was talking about Mega Man 8 specifically I was unaware of Duo’s appearances in other games besides power fighters And I’m not that knowledgeable on the mega man scale besides MM8

Monado replicas being formidable also makes since when the Monado itself is highly advanced technology.

Thank you. I can only say that my explanation of Smash vs canon was, awfully worded to say the least. You’re not the first one to make note of this. My main goal was to separate scaling of the canonical games ect. material from separate scaling of Smash’s story… for example, in his own games Mario has shown universal & beyond feats ect. while character like Kirby and Link, two people he canonically fights in Brawl, have higher & lower scaling respectively, yet any one of them can beat each other in canon. R.O.B. & Ice Climbers don’t have any notable feats but here they are constantly evading & out-speeding everyone who’d normally be considered strong during cutscenes. This applies to every fight in Brawl’s story mode, the series’ dubiously canon trailers & World of Light. Every character is seemingly more or less relative to each other, which might be explainable with everyone being trophy/spirit based on real world equivalent animated by Master Hand’s creativity & thus they may not exactly match their templates. I simply granted Game& Watch ect. characters the abilities they have in their movesets, which is fine when there is no contradicting evidence in source material, like I mentioned at 07:42 (G&W in particular is fine, considering Smash kinda treats him as amalgam of at least all original G&W games). "Wouldn't the Duck Hunt Trio technically be unbeatable by most characters since the person with the light gun is observing it all from a separate dimension" - The Duck Hunt gunman could be interpreted that way, at least judging by Smash Trailer for them, however, in original game they're simply implied to be a character like rest (Palutena’s Guidance makes note that the gunman is just hidden, but that doesn’t necessarily confirm either which way, but that I can say is that no player is currently shooting his game controller gun at screen when they do their side-smashes). Your game mechanic part confuses me. Are you complaining how gameplay differs from canon or confusing game mechanics with canon? I ran with canonical & story based info and not gameplay mechanics in this video after all, so I’m not quite sure what you’re referring to here… could you elaborate, perhaps with a side of an example from the video?

@@Marionic9001 I didn't expect such an elaborate explanation, but thank you. I understand this video more now. I thought the characters wouldn't rely on Smash at all which confused me a bit I suppose, but I still don't quite get mixing Smash canon and canon from their games. It's okay though. And regarding the last piece I didn't word it quite as well as I could have. What I meant to point out is that if a character, let's say Marth for example, is able to achieve supersonic speeds then what's the explanation? He's made of flesh and blood and should by no means be able to achieve that. Nothing ever supports the fact aside from calculations saying he has to because he dodges stuff sometimes. I get that we're taking the source material as definitive proof but I just think it's kinda silly personally to look at it like that.

@@amadeus.7436 "I still don't quite get mixing Smash canon and canon from their games. It's okay though" - It’s just to give R.O.B. & others of the sort something we can work with. Smash is supposed to represent the stories & abilities of the characters in it, it is a celebration of these characters & their histories after all, so as long as things it introduces don’t outright contradict lore established by source material (which R.O.B. technically lacks, so we can’t exactly say they have shown lack of lasers) it’s fine to use, at lest in my books. So you have problem with fictional people being able to do fictional things…? If you want ”a reason” why certain characters can reach certain levels of power, we usually have lore explanations for such built into the media, that’s what Power Systems are literally for in the stories. Things like Ki, Chakra, Spirit Energy, Ether, Magic, demonic/holy weapons, different alien physiology and so on are put into story for, well various reasons, but also to explain away why the characters are so superhuman & can do the things we real humans can not. Most of the characters in this list have thing like that. But in cases where seemingly normal humans (yes, most of Fire Emblem technically falls into this category, now that you mentioned them), there is far simpler explanation. It’s fiction. In real life, you could never train your body to be tougher than iron & move faster than light, but in series like One Piece for example, even normal human without any Devil Fruits ect. powers can naturally grind away & become that strong. If it is constantly showcased in the fiction that characters can move at supersonic speeds or whatnot, then it is consistent & thus we would use that consistent info to infer ”I see, so people in this world can move beyond supersonic speeds huh” -ect. They are simply imagined that way. Problems arise when there are contradictions, but in those kinds of cases we settle things by looking at what’s most consistent in the story.

@@Marionic9001 I mean, Mr. Game & Watch turning into the octopus is not something that happens in the games and there's nothing that suggests he can do so other than Smash. I understand it would be pretty boring to say "he's just a dude" but if you want to stick to your rules then stick to them. Feels unnecessary to be lenient with some characters when you have 80+ to work with. And yeah I totally get your reasoning regarding the logic of certain characters being able to do certain things. You're following the same logic most other people do when they power-scale character like this. I just don't think it necessarily makes for a very interesting subject. A lot of it feels like an early Game Theory video where a character's speed or strength technically would be ridiculous but just doesn't make sense when you think about in the context of the story or gameplay. The people who created most of the characters clearly didn't design or write them with the intention of them achieving supersonic speeds.

@@amadeus.7436 "I mean, Mr. Game & Watch turning into the octopus is not something that happens in the games and there's nothing that suggests he can do so other than Smash." - He turns into all sorts of things and characters from Game & Watch games… in Smash he’s more like weird amalgam of all of the original games, seemingly. "The people who created most of the characters clearly didn't design or write them with the intention of them achieving supersonic speeds." - I would like it if you could provide example on why you think certain someones shouldn’t be as powerful as the feats their authors made them display would imply.... I guess death of author is a thing, but still, I would be interested to hear…

Your lesser Monado theory is interesting but I disagree slightly because of how personas are tied to the cores. While Logos never showed the power to predict the future, I think if the lesser Monado were reflections of the Trinity Zanaza needs to have Logos because he is the male aspect of Alvis' trinity. Meaning Meyneth's Monado would be a reflection of Alvis' memory of Pnuema.

I hope you stay tuned for part 2 and 3 then. I’m sure that both the scale (and the narrative) will get their due eventually…

Wait, so you're Mr. Fujimaru Ritsuka then? You're arrested on charges of second hand murder, for destroying god knows how many Lostbelts.

This line of logic only works if we actually have evidence that they're weaker outside. This is like saying Yozora is featless because he only ever fought Sora in Quadratum.

what's your source for this? the only thing i can find is that XC3 might be a simulation, not that it is one, just that it sorta works like one, because of stuff that's explained later in the story and would be spoilers

No, they take place in pocket dimension where space and time work differently and when the dev call Aionios a *virtual world* it’s more a methaphore, it’s not actually like the Matrix

This statement will be addressed in 3rd video obviously, but for now, I guess I could say that Project X Zone and Smash Bros. appearances, AKA portrayals sanctioned by the series authors, pretty much disregard this fact... if it would have any effect on the scaling at all, it’s not there.

That statement is just straight up untrue, I believe what he said was that you could think of the mechanical design of AIonios specifically as a virtual world, 'even though it is still 100% real it is supported by artificial systems

Where has that been said exactly? Quick google search doesn’t give me anything.

@Marionic9001 I got it from this videokzbin.info/www/bejne/a3vHaYJ5r9Nsfq8si=AFcotpzNh8aNB-WL . It's from an old ign article In 2010. He shows the article in the intro.

@@Night_ssbu That is very interesting, I did not know there was statement about the size and it even matches with the common calculations (at least somewhat) …well, assuming Takahashi meant that Bionis/Mechonis are as TALL as Japan from north to south (some 3800km give or take), but this statement could also mean that the two giants hold livable surface area that is equal to the surface area of Japan (377 973 km² according to google), leaving out how tall they are to the guy’s with calculators. From the looks of the statement it kinda seems that he says that the area players can access in-game (where you play) is the size of Japan, you know, compared to character models, but that’s probably not the case, & wouldn’t be the canonical size of Bionis either, since not 100% of it is covered in-game or story. IDK if this statement contradicts anything really, I’ll have to check bit deeper.

I took the risk and can say that this is safe from Xeno 3 spoilers 😀 (heavy Xenoblade 2 spoilers in the middle section though, and Xeno 1 spoilers everywhere too, obviously)

Xenosaga is not confirmed cannon and i know neither is X. Nothing from Saga can work with blade well either and X could fit but no confirmation if its coming back or connecting but i think it would be better if neither connected at this point. Also Namco isn't interested in selling or bringing saga back. It also wouldn't make much sales at all.

@@dave9515 Future Redeemed directly namedrops Dimitri Yuriev on a radio broadcast from a radio manufactured by Vector Industries, and the post-credits scene is _heavily_ implied to be KOS-MOS falling to Earth at the end of Xenosaga 3. I'd recommend watching Luxin's video about the radio in Future Redeemed if you don't believe me, he goes into detail on why and how it lines up, including the thing about Bandai-Namco and IP rights.

@@dave9515then you’ve been intentionally ignoring recent canon. That or you’re just stubborn and/or didn’t play FR.

My one issue is that to my knowledge (admittedly not having played Saga) Gnosis were not sentient, at least not to the extent of say a Moebius.) Plus, Fogbeasts were DIRECT corruptions from the impending merge of dimensions, heralding the erasure. Moebius were deliberate refutations of change whose purpose was to never allow the merge to compete.

​@@FlipzMCLDimitri Yuriev was born thousands of years after Earth was lost in Xenosaga. Klaus's experiment was done in a USA controlled station while Grimoire did his in Canada. Shion and Allan also canonically lived in pre experiment Earth and built KOS-MOS Refrain. The names may be from Xenosaga but they can not be the same characters at all. FR Dimitri and Shion are not the same as XS Dimitri and Shion. Dmitri is hundreds of years old, not 5000+. Shion is only 23.

"Alvis was never retrofit into being an aegis core, the two aegis cores were given background tasks to manage every blade. The specifics aren’t clear, but it could be that the power sets of Alvis and his siblings diverged from a starting point." - Yes, Those may well be part of the reason for their differences. My main point was however that Alvis is basically ruler of an Universe & beyond, while the others are, sorta reasonably powerful Blades that do as their Driver’s will dictates, while Alvis... well, explicitly doesn’t. "Shulk's body is still mortal" - He is as mortal as a guy moving at immeasurable speeds and fighting immeasurably powerful gods can be. He's here tanking energy blasts from Yaldabaoth that blow the hell out of his party and clashing with god that recreate & destroys universes in single blow without dying... yep, something f_cked was going on with that bullet.

I don't think that's it 🤔 remember shulk before that point had thoughts of why he and his abilities were changing so rapidly. He questioned why he didn't have visions anymore. It was because he was getting so strong that he didn't need visions, if he focused shulk would KNOW what happens in the future. He explained that to reyn and the gang So maybe the reason he got shot was because his visions/future sight were replaced with a clairvoyance that he manually needs to activate

Ah, yes, I suppose there was a line about Shulk asking if it was her doing & thus implying that se did, in the scene where Meyneth awakens when Egil first starts moving Mechonis. It is my mistake for not making a note of it, after all, the fall down itself makes no reference to this and none of the party members guesion how they made it. Well, I suppose that would make it inconsistency like the ones I mentioned (since Shulk implies the fall would’ve been a big deal via this line, despite how it realistically shouldn’t be). …or alternatively, maybe this line is referring to Meyneth saving the gang from Egil just a second before the fall & Shulk just refers to the whole ordeal as a singular even by saying ”back when we fell” since it happened right after. I mean Fiora/Meyneth seemed pretty inactive afterwards anyway & may have lost consciousness too, so did she actually save them...? Dunno about that interpretation though. "could it be possible that because Shulk did not at this point recognise Dickson as an enemy he could not perceive a vision warning him of being shot?" - I don’t know, not likely? The Visions don’t solely happen based on if something dangerous is gonna happen to Shulk or the party, they can show anything of importance really (for example, all the Visions about important people like party members he would meet or those side-quest collectables you sometimes find before receiving quest). Likely the reason Visions didn’t activate because the event was predestined to happen by Zanza (as he details in the very next scene) & thus it was unavoidable, or it was just blocked…

"SMASH Art!"

Thanks! Hope it was at least partially worth the wait!

You should become a Xenoblade fan! Right now!

Finally someone with something interesting to say about Persona scaling! Tell me more. Do you have that Kandori scan, or know what part of the game I can find it from? What are the concepts that P2 brings to the table (and how do they relate to outer)? Even after al this time I’m still an amateur in Persona cosmology, SMT is more in my wheelhouse, so first time hearing that it would be SMT, series with definitive outerversal statements & lore well established by multiple entries, being the one to benefit from being connected to Persona is new to me. How are the two connected exactly…? I’m asking strictly in a cosmological/scaling sense, I do know of early lore connections. It'd be great at least if you could point me to places where I can get the information from to do my own research.

As explored in the video at various points, Servants can’t destroy Earth in Nasuverse precisely due to Counter Force (and other factors), but in any other verse where they would be dealing with ordinary planet/universe, it would be free game.

@@Marionic9001 So, that mean they are still Universe level and above but can't destroy universe and above due Counter Force, right?

@@Animfateblade874 Yes. Only the absolute god tiers are ever seen as to be able to bypass the Counter Force to threaten the planet (or the Universe) under their own power. Beasts like Goetia & Kiara were such beings, as well as Lostbelt Arjuna Alter & Zeus.

@@Marionic9001 Oh so, it's only Strongest Servants? If that is so then that is good to hear.

Those are Sages from Oracle of Seasons & oracle of Ages that merely share same name as the Goddesses. Not the same characters. Not that I particularly believe that Goddess’ exclusion is sign of anything. Those fodder just don’t have usable artwork for Spirits is all…

Infinity is not the same as omnipotence. I suggest you read up on the concept of higher infinities and imaginary numbers if you want to know more about the subject. It is all quite interesting.

Thank you. And sry, the only thing I could hear from that Master Hand part was ”Master Roshi is clearly strongest Dragon Ball Z character, he’s god of martial arts and stated to have power that borders on absolute & never used his Max Power buff form in actual fight, King Piccolo only killed him because he held back & didn’t use his Max Power. He can do anything and I mean anything.” Also, what’s with this weird reasoning that because Sonic (or any character really) coming out of nowhere & catching their opponent off guard allowing them to do something, as absolute confirmation that they are stronger than the character they took by surprise (and didn’t even harm them in any meaningful way, just prevented them from using an attack they can still use in this particular scenario). I see people bringing up stuff like this lately. If by your logic Sonic is above Tabuu because he outspeeds an attack from him, why ain’t Galeem & Dharkon above Sonic in turn, if they have attack that outsped him? Lemme guess, because he slowed down to save Pikachu (despite not slowing down one bit in that scene)?

@@Marionic9001 LOL hello again it is true Sonic caught Tabuu off guard but he is the only one who broke his invincibility and the Nintendo characters couldn't do that and Sonic did it with two spin dashes, and afterwards you can play as him to beat Tabuu. Despite that Sonic can still be turn into a trophy he was just not in that scene when Tabuu turn all the Nintendo characters except Bowser into trophies, during Tabuu fight even though his off waves were weaken by Sonic it can still instant kill him meaning if Sonic was in that scene with everyone else he would be turn into a trophy. And yes Sonic should run away instead of staring at Galeem but he wasn't the alone one everyone else was too, and I have to say it Sonic tried to save Pikachu which lead into him being disintegrated but still Tabuu off waves to me are stronger than Galeem's beams.

@@Marionic9001 I don't even think Tabuu got turn into a spirit I think it was just for the sake to make Galeem/Dharkon stronger than Tabuu, think about it they have spirits that don't make any sense like how can Fire Mario be a spirit or like Ice Mario, Dry Bowser, Fury Bowser, Metal Ridley, and Omega ridley just to name a few there game mechanics that don't make into sense. This makes me believe that Galeem/Dharkon never went into verses and never actually beaten Tabuu. I think Tabuu was actually still dead and was killed by the Smash cast and if he did get access into the world of trophies maybe he can consume the universe idk it is possible but he couldn't since he is stuck in Subspace so yeah.

@@Marionic9001 Tabuu off waves > Galeem beams

@@TabuuRulesTheSmashVerse2008 I don't know what invincibility you're referring to. Also Sonic running away instead of taking on Galeem )if he could) just because everyone else ran (even though likes of Link & Samus fought & failed and then everyone tried to run) paints him as some mob mentality weirdo which he is not, quite opposite as a matter of fact I would say. All of Sonic cast was turned into Spirits across the verse as well, including Super Sonic too ya know... "I don't even think Tabuu got turn into a spirit I think it was just for the sake to make Galeem/Dharkon stronger than Tabuu" - So you don't think a character was killed, because developers/writers had another character kill them to show them that they are stronger...? As explored in the video, all of the variants of characters across time & dimensions are turned into spirits... If embodiments of space & time get f_cked by Galeem & Dharkon, then it shouldn't be that surprising... Master Hand < Tabuu Tabuu < 36 Smash characters of Brawl over 70 Smash characters of Ultimate + their verses in their entireties seemingly <<< Galeem/Dharkon