Power Scales - The Insane Power of Galeem & Dharkon (Smash Ultimate)

I had plenty fun with my last power scaling video (Top 10 Strongest Smash characters by Canon) I decided to have another go with the topic. Welcome to the Power Scales!
In this new series I will go more in-depth into the strength of various fictional characters/verses that may or may not get the attention they deserve.In this episode, we take a look at the Final Bosses of Smash Ultimate, Galeem & Dharkon, to find out where they stand in terms of power as well as in comparison to other Nintendo characters. We'll also go over some lore & general scaling stuff regarding Super Smash Bros. and Master Hand.
Contents:
- Introduction 00:00 - 01:36
- What is Smash canon? 01:37 - 03:38
- Powers and Abilities 03:39 - 07:17
- Destructive capability 07:18 - 15:50
- Spirit scaling 15:51 - 20:18
- Lore & addressing "Beyond Fiction" statements 20:19 - 26:59
- Closing statements 27:00 - 27:54
I OWN NOTHING. This video is for review purposes & I claim no profit nor ownership of the characters, games nor art displayed. All credit goes to Nintendo, Masahiro Sakurai & others holding Super Smash Bros. license.

[@davonbenson4361]

Another reason why the characters can defeat Galeem and Dharkon, is because they were trying to kill each other, while they were fighting you.

[@mel-el5862]

Sephiroth one shotted galeem. Sephiroth is goated

[@mel-el5862]

@Wilt&Blush excuses now huh. Sephiroth one shots

[@jeviljoker8893]

@Wilt&Blush it is definitely canon, Friend#3611

[@aaricbro.]

@@mel-el5862 tbf, it’s shown that the fighters have already taken it on but the trio of Ritcher, Samus, and Hero gets knocked out with the other fighters either also down, struggling to get up, or ready to continue but just cautious- implying that they have all been fighting Galeem and would have weakened it but just unable to finish the job, that’s where Sephiroth comes in and finishes off the rest of its health with 1 swift attack, so the amount of health Galeem has would have been lowered and in a weaker state than when the world of light first started (not to mention that they have already beaten it once already before Dharkon comes in meaning it’s also even weaker than before if it’s already been defeated once when it was in its prime)

[@mel-el5862]

@@aaricbro. nah full health and sephiroth one shotted. I go by factual evidence not your theory which isn't proven.

[@CosmicManIta]

Tabuu : *I have create a pocket subspace universe and defeat all the heroes* Gaalem and Darkhon: 13:57

[@0nefartman]

Sephiroth be like : And i oop-

[@aushynebell2238]

They had weakened Galen in his trailer watch it again

[@TabuuRulesTheSmashVerse2008]

Galeem: Non Canon

[@TabuuRulesTheSmashVerse2008]

Galeem solos Sephiroth

[@hamzathebundaexpert]

My left ear enjoyed this

[@masonedwards5891]

Same

[@nullanix]

for me its only right???

[@egeparlak8004]

Not to mention, he also turned "Infinite" into a spirit, a being that has a prototype of Phantom Ruby, allowing him to warp reality and he can even defeat Sonic if he actually tries and yet, he is a spirit This also kind of proves that Game Sonic events also happened with Smash Bros Sonic (or maybe during Forces events) Dimentio, a maniac magician that surprassed freakin' nothingness at base form, has full access ocer Chaos Heart at Super form (meaning that he can destroy existence with ease) And look at him, a spirit I'd say that Galeem and Dharkon are at least Outversal, or maybe even Boundless

[@DagothUrAmaranth]

Pretend to know what scaling terms are.

[@justjames4]

I love how you actually know what you're talking about. This channel is underrated! Anyway, I will now share the characters I think can escape or defeat Galeem or Dharkon. I'm only going to mention characters I know about. Zeekeeper - Possible defeat through being quite higher dimensional. Magolor - Escape by constantly creating huge pocket realms, which he can do without the Master Crown. Galacta Knight - Escape using dimensional and timeline travel. Kracko - Gets stalemated like he does aganist literally everyone stronger than him via can come back as long as sky exists in any world. Pairing this with Magolor's pocket realm creation will allow Kracko to follow Magolor. Chaos Emerald Users - Escape via immeasurable speed. Solaris - Escape by existing in multiple times at once. Nonexisty - Completely impossible to affect. Flowey - Maybe defeat through determination and control over save data. Monika - Defeat via deleting Galeem and Dharkon from the game or even deleting time and reality itself through plot manipulation. Has infinite speed as well to stand a chance. Non-corporeality along with immortality by creating backups her character file will let her keep coming back. Of course Giygas, Chaos Heart users and others you said in the video stand a chance as well.

[@Marionic9001]

Thanks man! Stay tuned for more videos like this. Zeekeeper doesn't appear as a Spirit yes, but Antasma with Dark Stone does, who should scale above him due to Zeekeeper losing all his power while breaking the Shield that was created by Dream Stone, meaning he wouldn't be stronger than Dreamy Bowser/Antasma with Dark Stone (which is equal to Dream Stone). I'd like to know what feats you have for him, that make him higher dimensional. Magolor is a Spirit. Also didn't you listen to the part where Sakurai stated that all the other dimensions are affected by Galeem as well, so creating other dimensions would help. Galacta Knight is a Spirit. Kracko is a Spirit. Chaos Emerald users being immeasurable speed is arguable, but even if we'd take it as a fact they'd get hit as explained in the video 16:58 - 17:46 like other immeasurable chars have. Also, Super Sonic & Shadow are spirits anyways so... Solaris, I'd like to give you that, but I hesitate, due to Galeem turning Dialga into spirit (and also turning people into spirits that would logically be exclusive to past & future). Nonexisty - is this even a character...? Flowey, maybe. Monika too for same reasons I guess.

[@justjames4]

@@Marionic9001 I know a lot of them I mentioned are spirits already, but most of them had realistic ways they could've escaped. Like it's in character for Magolor to just escape to a different dimension mid fight to hide, buying him time to just keep creating pocket realms, though him not having immeasurable speed will certainly make him lose eventually. I am fairly certain the Galacta Knight was just downplayed in World of Light, as Galeem got the fighters first, which would be more than enough time for him to just escape to a timeline where Galeem didn't conquer... But maybe the Galeem that did conquer also would swallow that world too. What would happen if multiple Galeems from multiple timelines succeeded in their goal? That is surely confusing. So maybe Galacta Knight wouldn't be safe for long. That actually makes sense, since his spirit can only be summoned and not found, meaning he did actually go to another timeline. Yikes, maybe Galeem is even stronger than you said in the video! And if you don't know who Nonexisty is, he is from the cartoon Battle for Dream Island, where anthropomorphic objects do competitions, and the viewers vote for one to be eliminated most episodes, until there are few left so we can vote for one of them to win Dream Island. Nonexisty is a recommended character, who is a living nonexistence.

[@nettune9980X]

Marionic90 "nonexisty- is this even a character?" I look up on KZbin and apparently more or less it is a character.

[@arkhamknight620]

@@Marionic9001 (I know this is like 2 years late but) I'm not sure if you can count the video game versions of the characters, since smash is non canon to every other character.

[@Marionic9001]

@@arkhamknight620 That doesn’t matter, as the Smash versions share the same lore as their canon counterparts. It is consistently referenced by Trophy descriptions & other stuff.

[@chilenitosyt8889]

I want to see Tabuu back in action but this time with full power :P

[@jaketheoctoling]

Yea

[@TabuuRulesTheSmashVerse2008]

Indeed

[@Noname-fb1mm]

Sephiroth is overrated. The only reason he killed Galeem was because either Galeem was on low health or he was just being vulnerable because he was being overconfident. I guarantee you that Galeem can probably kill Sephiroth with a ray of light lol. Almost no one can avoid the rays of light unless it's our good boi Kirby.

[@bruhm0ment6000]

Probably during the final battle where sephiroth appeared and hero during the dark realm.

[@AnnyMossyTea]

It was just a trailer reveal non canon

[@thelostmessenger]

@@AnnyMossyTea maybe alternate universe

[@TabuuRulesTheSmashVerse2008]

Galeem: It was Non Canon

[@myrox7109]

This is an incrediblr analysis and im glad u didn't underestimate Galeem and Dharkon but I have a few question 1: if Galeem beated Sonic and all of his verse including other Dimensions does this mean he could beat the Archie verse ? The fact of having spirit of a specific verse (example Paper Mario verse). Means that Galeem beated everything from the verse ? Including New fighter/spirit making it canon that Galeem/Dharkon also beated them? That's all. Again amazing vidéo I hope you get more subscriber in the future because your'e clearly underated

[@Marionic9001]

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it! Your question is interesting: It's too tricky for me to outright tell if Galeem/Dharkon destroyed every single version of these verses or just ones that appear in the video game landscape due to never seeing any spirits from non-game sources. If I were to guess, no, probably not, as they're not different universes/multiverses but entirely different medium with their own dimensions (Archie Sonic has entire multiverse completely separate from it's video game counterpart). What I mean by this is that Archie (or any other comic/cartoon/manga adaptation of video game) would have to exist in a video game for it to be effected. I don't want to say that it's impossible though, as we do know for a fact that there are lot more Spirits than what are available in game thanks to the ending showing spiral of millions if not billions of Spirits. Those could be from non-game sources such as comics ect. Could Galeem & Dharkon do it power vice though? Well, Galeem & Dharkon outscale some Infinite multiversal heavy hitters from Pokemon & Paper Mario who have similar feats to some of the stuff in Archie, so yes, they can defeat the mid-tiers at the very least. High Tiers like Ancient Walkers & Master Emerald powered characters are bit harder to estimate, but if we take Galeem (seemingly) not turning Paper Mario High Tiers (Super Dimentio ect.) as definitive sign of him being weaker than those characters, then yes, Archie High Tiers might be stronger than them too. Yes, those Spirits from specific verses (including DLC) mean that those characters are from Universe that was obliterated by Galeem & turned into Spirit. Actually, you bring up interesting point with this question that I haven't really considered before: How are the DLC characters themselves not effected by the Rays of Light that got everyone else from their Universes? In Hero's trailer he even outright appears in the World of Dark, completely fine, but other Dragon Quest characters are still spirits, confirming that DLC characters worlds were indeed effected, so...? It doesn't really make canonical sense, only explanation that I can think of right now is that DLC characters were somehow freed off-screen either by the Smashers or Master Hand, or that they are not canonically part of the story's events (even though Hero's trailer suggests so).

[@myrox7109]

I think u might have missunderstood what I mean't by (beating archie sonic) mean more about: if he beated Sonic multiverse does it mean he Beated Archie. But you already answered that so thank you

[@Marionic9001]

@@myrox7109 I simply explained that Galeem & Dharkon probably didn't affect any Universes that are not from the games such as their Comic versions. But yes, Galeem can beat most of the Archie characters.

[@Marionic9001]

@Orochi HD By absorbing all the Master Hand's under his control yes. I'd argue that those are standard equipment for him, and he's shown creating clones quite casually in cutscenes anyways. Edit: Never mind, he can do the same move in the Bad End as well

[@arkhamknight620]

@@Marionic9001 I disagree on that, but maybe Galeem could scale higher than I thought.

[@maniacalmurderer4123]

You really love to show us our childhood hero’s dying to a ball of light, huh?

[@Marionic9001]

In my defense, Sakurai started it.

[@skistorm739]

@@Marionic9001 If recon and make glaeem and darkcon more powerful

[@erikstrickland96]

I appreciated the “hentai sauron” description of Dharkon! LOL

[@Rhino-Prime]

I love it

[@awildperson.4788]

Why is your voice in the left side of the headphones

[@Chan-el1pu]

Yeah same

[@coledavis7582]

I was first watching this with headphones lol

[@GB-sr9kv]

what???

[@hihowrya370]

tbh your "gameplay isn't always the best depiction for the lore" examples could've been simplified by saying "when a character die in gameplay, they don't die in the story" as an example. Either way, amazing video.

[@missilluminated1]

I've seen many people say tabuu is stronger then galeem and dharkon and I say to them that he's literally a spirit. They make points like he died at the end of subspace making him a spirit, which I'll admit is a sort of fair point but even then, tabuu only destroys village sized areas whilst galeem destroyed the damn universe in a few hours from what I can presume. People need to stop being fanboys of subspace and look at the lore. I think that sse is way better then wol but even then I know that galeem and dharkon are stronger

[@Marionic9001]

Wow, people actually say that? That's a pretty wild claim to make, as Galeem alone One-Shotted much stronger group of character (along with the entire verse *cough*) when compared to Tabuu. The claim of Tabuu already being dead, making him spirit is null & void considering that Galeem & Dharkon turned people across time into spirits (characters that are already dead, spirits, from alternate timelines or outside time appear as spirits), so I don't get that claim either. There's just no way Tabuu measures up to Smash Ultimate baddies. I think you're selling him short tho, village sized areas? Subspace is stated to be Tabuu's personal dimension & is even destroyed by his death... the trophy descriptions for Subspace Gunship ect. also states that the final weapon Bowser & Ganon pull out is capable of rending space "infinitely", making Smash Universe (World of Trophies) and Subspace, which can absorb it all, infinite in size.

[@missilluminated1]

@@Marionic9001 I just assumed that the land he destroyed was about one village per bomb. Should of specified that. That doesn't make me think that tabuu is weak though as he turned 35 fighters into a bunch of useless trophies, it's just the fact that he can't leave subspace without issues is why I said that. I actually have a peanut brain

[@missilluminated1]

@@Marionic9001 also I know how unnecessary this is but wasn't tabuu turned into a trophy actually? But yeah no doubt tabuu would be completely devoured. Even if he wasn't dead

[@MrSTAR4567]

Ikr! I've heard Galeem and Dharkon are the missing eyes of Tabuu and therefore are created by him. Totally wrong! Too many people underestimate Galeem and Dharkon. They are basically gods.

[@ClarkovJ.S.]

They are outright gods. More specifically the absolute embodiments of light/order and darkness/chaos. Order and chaos being the concepts that are perhaps most fundamental to an existence being possible alongside time and space (because entropy and all that), while light and darkness are essentially constants of existence no matter what (darkness more so).

[@fertileplanet7756]

5:08 I was just thinking about that plothole Also, Galeem and Dharkon are comparable in power to Kirby, who destroyes multiuniversal beings (such as Marx) very commonly. Galeem and Dharkon would actually make very good villains in the Kirby games

[@MikaOfficial999]

Comparable? Kirby only survived because of plot

[@fertileplanet7756]

@@MikaOfficial999 Don't just look at Smash, look at Kirby's lore

[@MikaOfficial999]

@@fertileplanet7756 I have. Void is to my knowledge the only god Kirby ever fought, the others were just self-proclaimed Gods because they were powerful. And even then, Void was hella difficult for him, why do you think it’s recommended to play with four characters?

[@Shadow_lord9983]

Also, the fighters are using spirits that have been empowered by Galeem and Dharkon. Effectively meaning you can only counter the two with each others or their own powers

[@Jitterzz]

Everything leads back to Kirby.

[@Marionic9001]

“Galeem and Dharkon, you couldn’t live with your own failures of trying to recreate the Universe. Where did it bring you? Back to me” - Kirby

[@cds3703]

Finally someone power scales them

[@antimatterstudios8395]

The golden goddesses are actually spirits. And we do have to take into account the fact that the ending scene showed billions of spirits, most of which wouldn’t have been able to have been collected in the world of light campaign

[@Marionic9001]

No, Golden Goddesses are not spirits, if you by any change confuse them with the 3 Sages with same names from Legend of Zelda Oracle-series (who are spirits), then I have to tell you that no, they're not the goddesses. If they we're, that'd be such a funny scaling for Zelda series, as that'd imply Onyx & Veran (Ganon's minions), two fodders are stronger than them as they beat & imprison them, meaning that Ganon, who's more powerful than them by a long shot, should easily be above the Triforce in power, despite clearly desiring it as the ultimate power. I neglected to mention how there definitely are more spirit's than what we can collect in the game, because it would be pretty inconsequential for the purposes of this video (for example, they might not even necessarily be any 'characters' & could just be normal citizens of Mushroom Kingdom, Hyrule ect.). Using it as proof that characters not seen as spirits are also collected by Galeem/Dharkon is bit iffy.

[@antimatterstudios8395]

Marionic90 ah that’s who they were. Thought it was weird that they were only advanced spirits

[@Seph0909]

​@@Marionic9001wait a minute where does ness show resistance to soul hax?

[@Marionic9001]

@@Seph0909 He fought off his evil self in his soul. Giygas can arguably harm souls too.

[@Seph0909]

@@Marionic9001 cool!

[@kyedisney4494]

Great video but my only complaint is that your voice is only in my left ear at all times unlike all the other audio in the video.

[@ayyubi1235]

Since galeem and dharkon can control someone as powerful as EVEN DIMENTIO (not super dimentio). Proves that they have infinite power on an 11d scale. (I've seen base dimentio get scaled to 11d)

[@terellisaac317]

Hi ayyubi!

[@DagothUrAmaranth]

gross. An attempt at dimensional scaling.

[@CosmicManIta]

19:38 Super Dimentio is not Multiversal, the Chaos Heart was slowly consuming the universe of paper Mario with his dimensiones which are realms in the same time-space

[@MrSTAR4567]

He can control reality so pretty strong tho.

[@charmingmagican9821]

Base dimentio is already above multiversal He can be scaled up to outrversal

[@Thenumber1yoshi]

Marionic90: Makes detailed power scaling video on Galeem and Dharkon Sephiroth last night at the Game Awards: I'm about to end this whole man's career!

[@Marionic9001]

Sephirot kills Galeem. Cloud kicks Sephiroth’s ass. Galeem kills Cloud & about billion other characters. ………. and Sephy too: www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_spirits_(Final_Fantasy_series) …okay.

[@Thenumber1yoshi]

@@Marionic9001 Isn't Kirby also a spirit?

[@Marionic9001]

@@Thenumber1yoshi Yes, which either means that Galeem copied it along with his body, or that the fighter Spirits are all of dubiously canon.

[@Thenumber1yoshi]

@@Marionic9001 Well wouldn't that same logic invalidate what you're saying about Sephiroth when you use his spirit as an example? (personally I just think Sakurai really meant it when he said World of Light is more about fun gameplay than the story as opposed to Subspace in Brawl, so we're not supposed to think too hard about it when Kirby is a spirit or Sephiroth slices Galeem in two during his reveal trailer, so power scaling is kind of a waste of time when trying to logically make sense of it).

[@Marionic9001]

@@Thenumber1yoshi Well, considering that whole FF7 Universe are DLC Spirits it either means their involvement is wholly non-canon (including the meme trailer) or that all of FF7 was consumed by Galeem/Dharkon, which includes Sephiroth as well: i.ytimg.com/vi/0_OwWj5_6DQ/maxresdefault.jpg Take it as you will I guess. Sakurai himself goes out of his way to explain away how plot works in Ultimate (how Kirby survived or how he was cloned) so saying that he says ”don’t consider the plot” is absolute hypocricy. Heck, he himself power-scaled Smash when he told who could survive the Opening.

[@justadudeontheinternet2721]

my left ear enjoyed this

[@Rat478]

Nice video although the reasoning behind stuff like duck hunt>Bowser would be due to many world interpretations

[@willwh9228]

I like how sephiroth just comes in and murders galeem

[@Marionic9001]

i.ytimg.com/vi/0_OwWj5_6DQ/maxresdefault.jpg

[@chronenojysk5107]

There is only 1 Samus. But in WoL there is 2 because you unlock Zero Suit Samus. Sooo Galeem has the ability to actually clone fighters?

[@Marionic9001]

As I talked about at 07:07 Galeem & Dharkon can seemingly separate characters into various versions of them (hence why there’s variations of Mario with different Power-Ups ect), but another argument is that they are timeline variations, as many spirits clearly showcase (Young & older versions of Ocelot, Baby Mario ect) However…. Samus & Zero Suit Samus (literally same person) can both be found within World of Light story, among other (Dr. Mario ect.) which either means that those 2 existed separatedly in World of Trophies (Smash World) OR that they got separated into different people by Galeem. It’s weird.

[@aaricbro.]

@@Marionic9001 it could also just be that they are treated as a variation of the character which does exist in smash lore with an example being 2 different incarnations of Ganon seen in the boss fight when playing as him or how there are multiple versions of Zelda and Link (Twilight, Ocurina, Breath, Windwaker, Link, Majora) that have appeared over the series and even how the Shiek in Ultimate is not the same as the Zelda in the game which allows them to fight as separate fighters (it could also explain the ditto matches which are noted by Snake and Pit of being themselves but with slightly different tactics and looks). I guess it’s similar to taking the Mario from the M&L series and comparing it with the Movie version, they may be the same character but are variations of each other and smash just pulls them both from their appearances and makes them fight each other (which would make sense since in Smash it -for the most part- takes place in a child’s imagination so keeping it all in lore correctly or things reasonable is the last thing to care about as seen with Chrom and Lucina being in the same room with Marth and Roy or of Simon and Ritcher in the same vein)

[@TheColdestBoi]

Galeem is this all mighty powerfu- *Shhhhing* *DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN* In comes Sephiroth

[@frohawk8465]

I honestly don’t think he is strong enough to completely one shot him. Beat him, yes, one shot him, no.

[@Marionic9001]

"Sephiroth has entered the chat!" "Cloud has entered the chat." "Sephiroth has left the chat." ... "Galeem has consumed the entire Podcast..."

[@frohawk8465]

@@Marionic9001 I approve of this 😊

[@SoraDonaldGoofy99]

So... what about when Sephiroth cuts Galeem in half?

[@egeparlak8004]

It happened at the end of Galeem fight

[@kadinhouston4991]

And it non canon

[@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8]

Hello, I like the video. Also I think I know a character that could defeat Galeem/Dharkon. Asriel Dreemurr: Destroys entire timelines effortlessly, has infinite defense, and what we see in game is merely a fraction of his real power, he may also be able to make Galeem /Dharkon unable to move, attack, or do anything else as he does in his fight vs Frisk. Also stronger than omega flowey, which has enough determination to override the player and use save states.

[@Marionic9001]

Thanks! Yes, well, just by virtue of destructive power Asriel might not have them beat, considering how they erased close to a dozen characters & realms with similar power... but when it comes to the more meta-fictional abilities that many Undertale characters possess (loading/erasing Save Files, altering Stats & whatnot), I don't think Galeem & Dharkon have answer for any of that... Even weaker characters like Chara & Omega Flowey display ability to subvert some of the rules that make the Game World tick, so it's safe to say that Asriel has much more potent version of these hacks.

[@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8]

@@Marionic9001 Asriel could maybe win with difficulty, because Galeem and Dharkon could trap beings as strong as Palkia and Dialga. Also his haxes (action limiting, probably a more powerful version of PFs metafictional abilities, infinite stats, existence erasure, stuff like that) but apparently since beings as powerful as Dialga, Palkia, and Arceus were taken as spirits, it might not be that easy because Dialga was taken over, the literal embodiement of time, and Galeem could take fighters past selves. Also Asriel could be mind controlled by them. Now someone that could probably beat them would be Bill Cipher (provided you give him a physical form), who effortlessly erases the embodiment of time with a single blast (sounds familiar doesn't it) and apparently destroyed the 2nd dimension and everything in it (meaning he may be as powerful as Dimentio with the chaos heart). Also he can probably destroy at least universes. Also he has a myriad of abilities (like snapping), provided he doesn't get mind controlled and turned into a spirit as well.

[@KamiTenchi]

@@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8 Bill would be a match, Asriel a match aswell as Frisk/Chara...but its not going to be easy.

[@arc-test5222]

@@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8 asriel is just multiversal sorry bud he doesn’t solo

[@egeparlak8004]

Bill Cipher is complex multi and Asriel is multi They cannot beat Galeem and Dharkon

[@hamstermandoom5318]

If Gallem and Dharkon somehow team up, we're doom

[@FatalityOfficialhashtag0860]

Did in the true ending

[@hamstermandoom5318]

@@FatalityOfficialhashtag0860 not actually

[@spoopyghost2683]

@@FatalityOfficialhashtag0860 they actively are trying to kill eachother in the galleem + darkon battle

[@MetaKnuxXbeats]

Just wondering, how do you think Void lines up with Dharkon and Galeem?

[@Marionic9001]

If you mean Void from Kirby Star Allies, well, that's interesting question. Void is curiously absent from the World of Light Campaign, even though all of it's forms have usable artwork for it to be a Spirit (similar to Bleck), so that possibly hints at it being stronger than Galeem & Dharkon, as well as it's status as strongest Kirby villain... the problem is that Kirby is shown to be capable of defeating Void alone, while he could do nothing but run the first time heroes fought & got their asses kicked by Galeem alone, and in final battle, Kirby, with every other Smash character, needed army of hundreds of Spirits to amp them (which also would weaken Galeem & Dharkon as I explained in the video), on top of the two being distracted with trying to kill each other... In short, Void < Kirby < Galeem < All the Smashers (Spirits) = Galeem & Dharkon (no Spirits or Master/Crazy Hands) < Galeem & Dharkon (All Spirits & Hands) Going by pure feats doesn't help either, Void can be wanked to Multiversal-level via the statement of it existing in quote "every dimension", assuming all those Voids are same being & not just versions of it... Unless if by existing in every dimension developers mean it exists in every Higher-Dimension, sure, Void Solo's, but that's HIGHLY unlikely.

[@MetaKnuxXbeats]

Marionic90 oh. I see. Thanks for the explanation. I was honestly fascinated with Void for the longest time really and since the Astral Birth Void boss and Smash Ultimate were released in the same week, I couldn’t help but compare them. Though I had this theory that maybe Void, Galeem and Dharkon are connect since I noticed they share a lot of attacks and traits from Void or the Dark Matter race on general but that is just some fan fiction-ish stuff I came up with my head though I would love that to be true. My doubts though.

[@Jitterzz]

Everything leads back to Kirby.

[@MetaKnuxXbeats]

@@Jitterzz of course. XP

[@MetaKnuxXbeats]

@@Marionic9001 I will admit, it is interesting going back to this comment chain after the Sephiroth trailer.

[@thelostmessenger]

So let me get this straight. Layer One: Reality Kid loves videogames and makes trophies/toys of them. Layer Two: World of Trophies Fake Universe Kid made up with all his favorite characters and their worlds. (He is creator now)(and destroyer later) Layer Three: Subspace Random Tabuu world Galeem & Darkhon come and destroy layer Two and three. (But not really because spirits can be sent back to their world.) Kirby escapes because he went forward in time. (Implies other characters fast enough to do this were blasted because they were caught off guard) Galeem remade World of Trophies(now world of light)(looks ugly btw) becomes creator for a while until Darkhon arrives as his rival(comes from world of darkness). Instead of sharing space they fight. Get killed by Kirbo the godslayer while fighting. World goes back to normal? (Even though you can send spirits home before this?) Tldr: Sakurai likes leaving loose ends Note: if this is all imagination, does that mean the kid also made Tabuu, Darkhon and Galeem? Maybe they're other aspects of himself. Solves why they overpower Master Hand.

[@Marionic9001]

God damn Imagination of a Child -Theory, it always grinds my gears when people present theories like this as actual lore (I mean no offense to anyone personally) when it’s not implied in the slightest. There's no evidence for it in the game, we are literally told how the lore works & still people want to insert interpretations into it that are not based on the actual lore as it’s explained by 64 to Brawl & by Sakurai in Smash Ultimate teasers. There’s no child. Master Hand made a fictional world using toys & later trophies that is based off of the quote ”Real World”, that is the one where ACTUAL Nintendo franchises exist, while World of Trophies (Smash World) is the one with his imaginary trophies & puppets becoming characters that fight endlessly. Tabuu menaces the Smash World but is defeated & Galeem (and Dharkon) destroy that world as well as Real World, making new world (World of Light) out of Spirits from Real & Smash Worlds, till the characters restore everything to normalcy and return the spirits. The goal of the games & defeating Master Hand (or whatever antagonist usurping him) is to dispel Smash World & return to reality, as Sakurai states in the World of Light Breakdown & how we’ve been shown since 64’s Classic Mode.

[@thelostmessenger]

@@Marionic9001 So when you say "where Nintendo Franchises exist" you mean their real videogame worlds and not the world where Nintendo as a company exists and sells games? I don't get how you say that there is "no child" if there is very obvious evidence in every title (except Ultimate). In the intro cutscene for 64 we the kid's room and the toy box (and see him close the door when classic mode is beaten). In Melee we literally see him pick up a trophy from the "real world". Not a generic floating glove but an actual person's hand (as well as the upgraded room in trophy display mode with many consoles suggesting the progress of time).In Brawl we see a birthday scene with a Dsi in photo mode and in WiiU in photo mode we see a room with many smash symbols but our view is from a table reminiscent of the table in Melee. It's to show the progress of time. I can completely understand that you dislike this theory because it's generic and easy to make but the reason is because it's the one with most evidence. Now, one can argue that they're just uncorrelated bits because it feels like all of that is retconned in Ultimate (no "real" places shown or in cutscenes) so now it can be mostly ignored. We can go with the theory that this world is created by the Master Hand in the Kirby games because he has made multiple cameos in that series it seems like a bit of a stretch however it's not a bad interpretation because there aren't many explanations for that. This theory of mine still wouldn't change anything relating to the "trophy world" cannon. The only difference being that there's just another layer. I'm glad you actually replied to me even if your video is old. I almost never see anyone talk about the Smash Cannon because everyone just listens to MatPat theories and calls it a day.

[@thelostmessenger]

@@Marionic9001 Okay I rewatched your video part debating what Ultimate referred to when talking about the "real world". In this case the real world is where the characters came from. Their game cannon. Like you said, Gannon cannot exist canonically together with Zelda or Link because that would mess up the time lines. That is because they have been picked from their "real world" . In Ultimate, worlds are talked about in Palutana's guidance for breath of the wild Link. She tells Pit that it's not a good idea to mess with other world's problems. Might imply that there could be a way for there to change other characters world's outcomes but sounds iffy especially since that series breaks the fourth wall a lot. Sorry if this theory bugs you I just read another comment bringing it up and I understand if you're annoyed with it coming up again.

[@Marionic9001]

@@thelostmessenger It’s alright. In fact, you are one of the few who have brough up the actual images in the actual games (the birthday pic, Melee real hand ect) that would be evidence to ”Child Theory”, unlike most people I see, who just take the theory as fact without any evidence, so that’ commendable to say the very least. I agree that those facts can indeed be used to infer/justify believing the theory, however, the games have actual story that don’t hold these same beliefs. 64 opening with toy box is Master Hand creating everything as his Trophy descriptions constantly describe (and further describe relationship of real & smash world, calling him the link between the two as he exist in former & creates latter into it via dioramas & trophies ect). His apparent defeat in Classic mode sets everything back to normal in 64. In Melee, the hand we see is either stand-in for Master Hand or it is just trailer type fluff not meant to taken as serious part of story. Either way, if this (and birthday pic ect) are taken as absolute lore, there still hasn’t been implied to be child prior or after in the context of the story. Also, if we follow the theory itself, and use the logic of Master Hand being the stand in for the child (since we literally see him create world from toys & trophies & in bios so the two either are same or contradict each other) then what is Tabuu then if he comes in, tries to destroy all the trophies, & Master Hand as well? If it’s child’s puberty or some inane crap like that, then why isn’t he appear as alternate version of Master Hand? Also, don’t we already have Crazy Hand to represent the child destroying it’s creations, as that’s literally how the character is described in Trophies, further emphasizing how Tabuu is a thing outside of this world Master Hand has made (& removed from real world too). Galeem & Dharkon, same thing, what exactly would they be to Child if they too are invaders from outside, destroy all their creations, destroy their world (both imagery & more importantly, THE REAL WORLD they occupy), remake it all and also enslave child & make hundreds of copies of them? How can that be justified inside the child theory? Are Galeem & Dharkon representatives of Drugs? Gene Manipulation? Split Personality Disorder? Corporate Overlords? Moon Crazyness? I apologize if I came out strong, I was merely trying to illustrate why I don’t buy the theory (despite there being some wiggle room for it), and what the actual lore is as is presented by games & Ultimate’s directs.

[@bingobo2551]

Interestingly I could only hear your voice through one of my headphones.

[@lgflbrandyascognac]

15:05 he could've just jumped over the beam Bonus comment: the posters "future" could've helped

[@parkerlarson6692]

Couldn’t you say that they are the embodiment of light and dark as defeating only one makes the other take full control (galeem being defeats means permanent darkness) but by only defeating both does everything return to normal

[@Marionic9001]

I hesitated to say that, since deaths of embodiments like that would usually imply destruction of the things they represent (light & dark don’t cease to exist when both die) Though there actually is statement in game that flat out says they are embodiments of light & dark, contradicting my avatar statement… I even show instance of such in the video 06:18

[@kingcomplex6678]

14:55 - Sonic possibly could've outrun the beam as he's been shown in Sonic CD to be able to run so fast he can go forward and/or backwards in time. And before you wanna say "it's the signs not actually sonic" the signs are there so that us the player know w hat's happening.

[@V0ID0625]

also sonic is much faster than the speed of light and galeem is literally an embodiment of light. Also he could’ve turned super to travel to the future while also flying away from earth.

[@egeparlak8004]

Sonic needs time stones to do that and needs a Smash Ball to use Chaos Emeralds in Smashverse

[@kingcomplex6678]

@@egeparlak8004 okay? Sonic in base form out ran a black hole, something even light couldn’t escape. He’d be able to run back in time that way.

[@egeparlak8004]

If you actually realize, light is heavily slow compared to Galeem He rewrote the entire cosmology in seconds while light travels to Sun from Earth in a year Super Sonic either wouşd barely escape, or do not survive at all -oh wait Super Sonic is a spirit-

[@egeparlak8004]

And without Time Stones, Sonic *CANNOT* travel through time (unless if time manipulators like Time Eater and Solaris are on the track, or he has 2 Chaos Emeralds) No matter how fast he goes, he never traveled back to time accidently in modern Sonic games, not even in Frontiers So yeah, Sonic cannot escape Galeem's grasp

[@goreobsessed2308]

4d speed got to remember this shit for later lol

[@Tyln93]

Galeem = Seraphim Angel

[@KrakenGod22]

So what if Tabuu is Like god of the multiverse and whatnot and was lonely so he made people and other things and they were bad so he crates dharkon and Galeem to keep balance but they were always at each other and to 1 up each other made the hands as like minions which is why tabuu was using both of them to trick them into turning the fighters into statues because he had seen his mistake in making them

[@shockdrake]

Those Galeem and Dharkon also fierce too?

[@venomgaming7014]

Galeem captured *arceus.* arceus is in lore, the strongest Pokémon by a MILE. Galeem solos Pokémon confirmed.

[@phatnguyenxuan3043]

Galeem so powerful event medusa got consume

[@madworldisrael7584]

Well since Sephiroth pretty much one shotted Galeem, what does that say about Sephiroth. LOL

[@Marionic9001]

That the power of Anime was on his side.

[@raimu4467]

You pronouncing "Tabuu" is funny lol

[@Marionic9001]

I know the name's probably derived from word “taboo/tabu” and should be pronounced more in the lines of that, but I just found myself pronouncing it that way regardless. No idea why.

[@a.m.d5251]

So, how high do they scale? Just multiversal?

[@Marionic9001]

Multiversal is such a vague term. Do you mean Infinite Universes? Or infinite amount of universes that are infinite? Beyond that, easily. Galeem & Dharkon, judging by how their influence seems to take over Real Worlds AKA Verses of each Nintendo franchise, some that have impressive cosmologies like multiverses and whatnot (or at least turn characters into Spirits that would scale to their respective cosmologies, Pokemon Gods, Base Shulk, Paper mario & KH Characters among them for example). Some franchises have infinite Universes or multiverses as I said, all of them are effected, judging by all trophies & spirit constantly referring to them, like Zelda & Mario characters from parallel Universes/times appearing as spirits). 6th-Dimensional feat. AT LEAST. BARE MINIMUM. For example, lot of verses (like Xenoblade, Castlevania & KH) have Universes or realms that are infinite, same going for some of their Multiverses (Xeno, Paper Mario ect), which makes those cosmologies 4th Dimensional, since they are infinities that contain another infinity (4D = infinitely above 3D infinity). Not every franchise has cosmology of this size, but destroying/scaling to characters that scale to them, is all we need. Xenoblade for example has infinite universe + infinite multiverse + infinite time in each universe, making it bare min. 6th-Dimensional. Even if Galeem & Dharkon didn't destroy or remake the cosmology (though as I said in the video, World of Light being made of pieces from these realms seems to indicate that), but High-Tiers like end-game Shulk scale to this anyway like I said & they fodderize him easily. Pokemon has similar scale cosmology & it's very personifications are also destroyed (Arceus & Creation Trio) & made into Spirits, just as easily. Again 6th-Dimensional bare minimum. There are others like that, Persona & KH for example, and some can be argued to be even higher. I suppose I could've said it clearer in the video.

[@egeparlak8004]

Boundless.

[@thorshammer7883]

I wonder how Galeem and Dharkon would fair in battle with Solaris from either the Archie comics or the game series.

[@Marionic9001]

I wonder... not great I'd assume. Even if we'd place Solaris at 5D by saying that Sonic Universe is Infinite space with infinite Timeline & Solaris destroys infinite amount of them (pretty sure none of those are confirmed), Galeem & Dharkon still end up being stronger if we give them exactly the same benefit of a doubt. As I say in the video, Galeem & Dharkon power spans Infinite Universe of Smash to various other Nintendo-Verses, some which have infinite Universes or multiverses (it is confirmed that it’s not just that each main universe is effected, but their multiverses, like with Zelda & Mario characters from parallel Universes appearing as spirits). That'd be... well, 6th Dimensional bare minimum: For example, lot of verses (like Mario & Xenoblade) have Universes that are stated to be infinite, same going for their Multiverses, which makes those cosmologies 4th Dimensional, since they are infinity containing lesser infinity. We can’t however use this for every Verse in Smash, unless it’s directly stated (Kirby & Castlevania for example are implied to have infinite sized Universe, but the size of their multiverse is never confirmed... I think). Still, it matters a little, seeing how Galeem & Dharkon also seemingly effected all of time, by turning characters timeline variants (younger/Older Ocelot, Baby Mario Bros. ect) into Spiris & destroying characters that exist beyond time, like Creation Trio & Arceus. Heavy implication that they also destroyed all of Time & alternate Timelines. I believe at least Persona & possibly Pokemon have Infinite Timelines, while some franchises have infinite time... If we are to combine all that crap, It would jump to 5th & 6th Dimensional. Archie Solaris, I dunno, because he never appeared, so we'd only have the Sonic Encyclopedia to go off of.

[@thorshammer7883]

@@Marionic9001 I doubt there are actual multiple multiverses but just a large complex multiverse.

[@Marionic9001]

@@thorshammer7883 For which one? Solaris or Galeem & Dharkon? I’ve provided evidence for Smash in this very vid….

[@jhevgainz2307]

Considering they scale above every verse that is shown in smash series, they stomp.

[@themustardman219]

@@jhevgainz2307 except Kirby himself and probably void

[@indiaonstreet8335]

Sephiroth:- Pathetic

[@Marionic9001]

Galeem: -Non canon.

[@ClarkovJ.S.]

Dharkon: I wish it was canon.

[@venomgaming7014]

Yeah so the LOZ goddess thing isn’t exactly correct. While no spirit of farore exists, nayru and din have spirits. Capturing 2/3rds of a trio of goddesses is pretty impressive.

[@Marionic9001]

Those are Sages from Oracle of Seasons & oracle of Ages that merely share same name as the Goddesses. Not the same characters. Not that I particularly believe that Goddess’ exclusion is sign of anything. Those fodder just don’t have usable artwork for Spirits is all…

[@beanman5988]

The voice is only on the left ear😢😢

[@TabuuRulesTheSmashVerse2008]

Great video I know this will surprise a lot but Master hand and Crazy hand are the two most powerful entities, because they have a "Power that borders an absolute" meaning they can control the whole universe. It is stated that Master hand and Crazy hand doesn't use all of their power, because they want a fair fight with the Nintendo characters and Galeem/Dharkon, Tabuu, and Sonic. Master hand and Crazy hand can do anything and I mean anything the reason why the characters stand a chance is because they are holding back, and this leads to them being controlled by Tabuu and Galeem/Dharkon. Tabuu only beat Master hand because he was holding back same goes with Galeem and Dharkon, so Master hand/Crazy hand scales above everyone as for Tabuu. Sonic clearly scales above him he broke his Invincibility and was the only one who damage him, Tabuu to me should and chould beat Galeem and Dharkon when he unleash his off waves The Nintendo Characters couldn't do nothing but react with a blank of an eye. When it was to late when Galeem unleash his beams they at least fought back and Kirby escape Galeem beams, but couldn't do nothing with Tabuu off waves and his boss fight is even harder Tabuu can beat Kirby and every other Nintendo character. If it wasn't for Sonic they would have been turn into trophies again, and Tabuu being turn into a spirit must mean he was in a weak state. So to me I scale all of them like this Master hand/Crazy hand > Sonic > Tabuu > Galeem and Dharkon > The Nintendo Characters

[@Marionic9001]

Thank you. And sry, the only thing I could hear from that Master Hand part was ”Master Roshi is clearly strongest Dragon Ball Z character, he’s god of martial arts and stated to have power that borders on absolute & never used his Max Power buff form in actual fight, King Piccolo only killed him because he held back & didn’t use his Max Power. He can do anything and I mean anything.” Also, what’s with this weird reasoning that because Sonic (or any character really) coming out of nowhere & catching their opponent off guard allowing them to do something, as absolute confirmation that they are stronger than the character they took by surprise (and didn’t even harm them in any meaningful way, just prevented them from using an attack they can still use in this particular scenario). I see people bringing up stuff like this lately. If by your logic Sonic is above Tabuu because he outspeeds an attack from him, why ain’t Galeem & Dharkon above Sonic in turn, if they have attack that outsped him? Lemme guess, because he slowed down to save Pikachu (despite not slowing down one bit in that scene)?

[@TabuuRulesTheSmashVerse2008]

@@Marionic9001 LOL hello again it is true Sonic caught Tabuu off guard but he is the only one who broke his invincibility and the Nintendo characters couldn't do that and Sonic did it with two spin dashes, and afterwards you can play as him to beat Tabuu. Despite that Sonic can still be turn into a trophy he was just not in that scene when Tabuu turn all the Nintendo characters except Bowser into trophies, during Tabuu fight even though his off waves were weaken by Sonic it can still instant kill him meaning if Sonic was in that scene with everyone else he would be turn into a trophy. And yes Sonic should run away instead of staring at Galeem but he wasn't the alone one everyone else was too, and I have to say it Sonic tried to save Pikachu which lead into him being disintegrated but still Tabuu off waves to me are stronger than Galeem's beams.

[@TabuuRulesTheSmashVerse2008]

@@Marionic9001 I don't even think Tabuu got turn into a spirit I think it was just for the sake to make Galeem/Dharkon stronger than Tabuu, think about it they have spirits that don't make any sense like how can Fire Mario be a spirit or like Ice Mario, Dry Bowser, Fury Bowser, Metal Ridley, and Omega ridley just to name a few there game mechanics that don't make into sense. This makes me believe that Galeem/Dharkon never went into verses and never actually beaten Tabuu. I think Tabuu was actually still dead and was killed by the Smash cast and if he did get access into the world of trophies maybe he can consume the universe idk it is possible but he couldn't since he is stuck in Subspace so yeah.

[@TabuuRulesTheSmashVerse2008]

@@Marionic9001 Tabuu off waves > Galeem beams

[@Marionic9001]

@@TabuuRulesTheSmashVerse2008 I don't know what invincibility you're referring to. Also Sonic running away instead of taking on Galeem )if he could) just because everyone else ran (even though likes of Link & Samus fought & failed and then everyone tried to run) paints him as some mob mentality weirdo which he is not, quite opposite as a matter of fact I would say. All of Sonic cast was turned into Spirits across the verse as well, including Super Sonic too ya know... "I don't even think Tabuu got turn into a spirit I think it was just for the sake to make Galeem/Dharkon stronger than Tabuu" - So you don't think a character was killed, because developers/writers had another character kill them to show them that they are stronger...? As explored in the video, all of the variants of characters across time & dimensions are turned into spirits... If embodiments of space & time get f_cked by Galeem & Dharkon, then it shouldn't be that surprising... Master Hand < Tabuu Tabuu < 36 Smash characters of Brawl over 70 Smash characters of Ultimate + their verses in their entireties seemingly

[@turbosharpsho6311]

Master hands are stronger galeem just holds the light every spirit has light so master hands have light so absorbing there light and power darkhon controls dark so master hands have dark and they create the complete dark master hands my theory crazy hand is a complete dark hell version of master hands as darkhon releases darkness through out the world and than that happens

[@roscodogg1289]

Yo do one on tabuu or sonic in brawl plz

[@roscodogg1289]

Take it back he did that the end

[@lightparody]

Not anymore since sephiroth just one shot it like it's nothing....and if we being technical sonic is... Because he is broken in his games and his comics. And he got like fate that makes him win any fight no matter what...i never knew that till my friends start talking about it.

[@lightparody]

But nothing stronger then the plot armor that Kirby has in smash bros ultimate😂😂😂 Golem: *stops everyone* Kirby: well where's that plot armor and my star that is apparently faster than sonic.

[@Marionic9001]

@@lightparody Even though Galeem killed Cloud (in canon story) who has defeated Sephiroth like thrice? Even though Sephiroth & all of FF7 got turned into Spirits? Game Sonic is different from Archie Sonic… Galeem killed him pretty good too. Also, you’re kinda incorrect about the whole fate thing, it’s actually that he defies conventional fate, which doesn’t result into him winning every fight (he lost to Eggman among others quite frequently), but there is always element of chaos at play that in the end allows something to save him, or something unexpected to allow him to win in the long run. Kirby being faster than all the Smash characters is surprisingly consistent in his own series (aside from maybe Shulk). Sakurai even goes out of his way to explain how he did what he did in Ultimate, it wasn’t because ‘just cause’ but has actual reasoning.

[@woodgod5858]

@@Marionic9001 Kirby also have a fighter spirit, even without getting kill by galeem, probably by his scanning ability like you said. So why are you assuming different for a character who's shown to be above galeem in the trailer? Also like you said, smash multiverse and character's original story are not connected to each other. So how can we assume that smash version of cloud actually have beaten Sephiroth before? If you're using the trailer as an example of "cloud beating Sep", he kidda just landed his final smash on him and nothing really happens afterward. Btw, not trying to be rude, just wanna discuss. You made really good vid.

[@Marionic9001]

@@woodgod5858 Oh boy, someone called me out.... I dreaded the day someone would come at me serious about Sephiroth Trailer… fortunately, your comment seems to be more interested in pointing out flaws in my previous argumentation, which is welcome. I admit that I haven’t made the best counters in the past, but only because I’ve had no desire to elaborate further when answering to memes. "Kirby also have a fighter spirit, even without getting kill by galeem, probably by his scanning ability like you said." - Yeah, Sakurai confirmed it. "So why are you assuming different for a character who's shown to be above galeem in the trailer?" - First of, that scanning argument specifically applies only to Kirby, as it’s not explicilyt stated for any other character -but rather in response to why Kirby is the ONLY survivor of the attack & is still fought (already confirming that he’s literally the only one, at least from cast of playables). From that, we’d naturally conclude that DLC/others were all vaporized & converted into spirits like the rest, but let’s ignore this argument for a while & look at other counters, as I admit that using fighter Spirits from classic mode is sh*t argument in my part, as Kirby has one too, so I’d like to make amends. 1. Consistency between Sephiroth in his series vs Galeem’s consistent feats. As I go over in the video, without even using raw AP of the realms Galeem effected, he scales above every Smash character, which includes Multiversals/beyond Infinite 3D chars like Shulk, Bayo, Ness & Kirby chars other than Kirby, as well as scales above all the spirits he devoured (including likes of Megaman.EXE, Arceus, Bayonetta/Castlevania/PKM high-tiers all that scale AT LEAST above infinite 3D). And yes, with or without Master Hand’s absorbed, as he kills Spirit amped Smashers just the same in Bad Ending without any MHands, if smashers only focused on fighting Dharkon. Sephy on the other hand… Solar System level hype much? Granted, there are few silly outlier arguments for sephiroth like Universal/Multiversal, but even that’s literally poop to the cannon fodder that Galeem One-Shots in the story (with or without Master Hands, as seen in one of the Bad Ends). From this we can assume that the trailers either don’t follow the scale of the ACTUAL story, or scale entirely differently. There’s multiple examples of this, such as every char beating up *canonically* much stronger chars in their animated CG-portions, like Megaman bodying all series mainstays simultaneously, Insineroar beating Ken & K. Rool One-Shotting Dedede, not mention Ridley. 2. Trailers are f*cking non-canon material anyway, used to hype up the upcoming characters, the worst offenders are especially the ones that CONTRADICT the actual story mode. Where was Sephiroth cutting Galeem in World of Light story? Nowhere, because that contradicts each & every ending. Same goes for Hero. Not to mention how some trailers also contradict lore of the very games the chars are from (like 2 separate Corrins/Byleth’s being aware of each other, Robin flying, Pyra/Mythra being able to switch & various dead chars being alive/from different points in time) so they’re generally unreliable. 3. DLC are of nebulous canon to begin with, but if their existence in games story is to be validated in some fashion, we would go by what is shown of them in the actual story… which is that all of them join your party after clearing set requirements (rescue 10 Fighters) & proceed to not appear in any cutscenes, while some (like Minmin, Pyra & Mythra) appear in the story as Spirit fighters, some which are required to be defeated to reach True Ending. 4. Sephiroth has 2 separate spirits of him, implying him being among the devoured. Now obviously I already conceded on Fighter spirits not being valid argument, but coupled with FF7 Sephy being available it becomes much more valid to say that he became a spirit (not to mention if we want to take DLC as canon, that would mean DLC Spirits were all consumed along with rest of the verse, so all of FF7, which includes Sephy as show, is effected). Also, all the arguments like “that could just be SOLDIER Sephy, who’s not as powerful as End-game one” are equally as valid as it being any other Sephy, but I’d argue that it’s his most seen/relevant iteration AKA the Lifestream fused End-Game one from FF7, AKA his strongest form 5. Wank "like you said, smash multiverse and character's original story are not connected to each other. So how can we assume that smash version of cloud actually have beaten Sephiroth before?" - That’s not exactly what I said tho. I said that Smash follows it's own canon which is separate from the games characters are from, but not that they're entirely different: Smash versions of the characters are derived from the “real world” which is either their residential Verse or place from 64 Intro, both of which are aware of the stories & histories of each character, even Smash world is. Trophy descriptions go on long detail about each chars lore, as do multiple modes in smash via references, like Spirits or Classic Mode and heck, even the trailers sometimes refer to the og stories, very explicitly in some cases. Also, if we look at Sephiroth trailer specifically, Cloud & Sephy reference (read: parody) Advent Children, Sephiroth even saying that he refuses to become memory (in OG context refers to him becoming one ‘again’). Also, arguments like “maybe sephiroth in trailer is different strength than others” can be countered in same vein by saying “maybe Galeem (and everyone) in that trailer is different strength”. "If you're using the trailer as an example of cloud beating Sep, he kidda just landed his final smash on him and nothing really happens afterward" - That was not too thought out refutal either I suppose, I admit that. Hopefully this suffiies. Glad you liked the video man.

[@woodgod5858]

@@Marionic9001 Yo, Super well thought out respond. I'm pretty much kidda in the middle about the whole Sep vs Galeem thing (maybe even leaning toward Sep) but your respond pretty much justified all of my questions regarding the video quite well and have def moved me towards Galeem>Sep for the main (Canon) smash's lore. "Smash versions of the characters are derived from the “real world”, yea I completely overlooked that statement entirely, which should means that the lore of each Smash fighters should be relative to "real world" (original) counter part. My point about Smash Sep have completely different lore to the original is def not the case. "arguments like “maybe sephiroth in trailer is different strength than others” can be countered in same vein by saying “maybe Galeem (and everyone) in that trailer is different strength”. Yea, I agree with this now. To further the point, Pyra/Mythra is strong enough to knockback Sep in the trailer (doesn't matter if it's gameplay and not CGI part since in all trailer the gameplay also tell the story??? of the trailer ie. Pyra, Sep and Hero's trailer which transition between CGI and gameplay are pretty much interconnected ), trailer Pyra is relative to Shulk, Shulk got one shot by Galeem, ---->trailer Sep one shot Galeem. Which makes the power scaling nonsensical, thus only valid interpretation would be, the trailer having different canon to the main story. Also, all the arguments like “that could just be SOLDIER Sephy, who’s not as powerful as End-game one” Yea, that argument is pretty stupid, that's why I don't even touch it and go with "Sep might got scanned like Kirby". Especially since Galeem spirits always have complete description of the characters. If that's the case, the spirit would named something like "Sephiroth (Jenova/clone)" Now I'm on the opinion of trailer and main game being a completely separate canon, kidda like DBZ to their movies. Trailer Sep>>> trailer Galeem (for obvious reason) but main Galeem should be above Trailer Sep (and obviously main game Sep) via better feats/ actually have one. Very nice respond and video, you're probably the only youtuber who scale smash character. I've seen so many stupid comments about Sephiroth that you've argued with that result in "Smash doesn't makes sense anyway and Sakurai doesn't care about power scaling anyway" which obviously not the case from all of the Sakurai's interviews that you've brought up. And I have legit questions about Sep vs Galeem outside of the "meme" stuff which you've pretty much justified all of your point with the respond. Have a good day main and again nice video/responds. Also prepare for another horde of memers when Doomguy inevitably one shot Dharkon.

[@user-hs4ku8dl4t]

Sonic would have outran Galeem if he did not reach for Pikachu

[@Marionic9001]

Run where? There's nowhere to run.

[@Kajiufan2021]

Where to-luigikid

[@jacobsmith7292]

Second strongest in the smashverse actually. Sephiroth proved it

[@Marionic9001]

Galeem & Dharkon < Sephitoth? < Cloud < Everyone including Cloud

[@code_error6112]

Sephiroth kinda got the jump on Galeem while he was charging his ultimate attack (which might have made him vulnerable)

[@Marionic9001]

@@code_error6112 Despite Galeem & Dharkon being able tank each others attacks huh?

[@AnnyMossyTea]

But it was a reveal trailer to make an amazing entry

[@jacobsmith7292]

@@Marionic9001 I didnt realize my tongue in cheek comment was an actual argument but alright

[@Mr.Wahoo77]

Can you say that Smash Mario and co are different than the real Mario and co? They just toys brought to life?

[@Marionic9001]

Please refer back to the part exploring Real World’s connection to the fighters & Spirits.

[@Mr.Wahoo77]

@@Marionic9001 I have trouble understanding, is all just imagination or the real characters? I have a learning disability...

[@Mr.Wahoo77]

And did Super Sonic imply that Galeem got him too?

[@Marionic9001]

@@Mr.Wahoo77 I go over this at 22:57 - 23:38 of this very video, but I suppose I can explain it here too. As Sakurai has explained in directs & implied from Smash Bros. 64 onward, the Fighters we play as are just toys (later Trophies), animated to life by imagination of Master Hand, who creates imaginary battlefields for them to battle in, in form of Smash Universe, where all the games in Smash series take place. The imaginary fighters are based on world known as Real World, where all the real Nintendo games & stories exist in, and I’ll explain why this is what the Real World is in a moment. In Smash Ultimate, Galeem destroys all the fighters and Smash Universe as a whole, remaking them into templates for Puppet Fighters and World of Light respectively (though World of Light likely contains parts of Real World too). The various Nintendo (and other) characters seen in World of Light as the Spirits we collect throughout the game are not from Smash Universe, but from Real World according to Sakurai’s statements & Smash Ultimate. Goal is to save the Spirits and return them to their home in Real World, just like how in Smash 64, upon defeating Master Hand the Fighters return into being toys they are normally in Real World. This means that Real World is origin of all these Spirits, AKA it is all the different worlds seen in various Nintendo games. Spirits are real characters appearing in those games turned into, well spirits, while Fighters are toys/trophies imitating Real World characters. This is further implied by the Fighter characters all having Spirit counterparts you can unlock through Classic Mode; those may very well be Real World’s versions of the fighters (AKA their models), while in World of Light, Fighters are not shown to become Spirit upon getting incinerated by Galeem, but are instead used as templates to create soulless clones (though this might just be Galeem choosing to do different things with them, as the clones are shown to be lifeless husks before any random Spirit inhabits them, implying that Fighters possibly have Spirits of their own, which is either created by Master Hand or they’re literally animated by Spirit of Real World character they are based on). - In essence, the Fighters are the same as their Real World counterparts, but in truth are not them, just toys/puppets animated into becoming them, like any puppet fighter is animated into becoming different character via different Spirit placed into them.

[@Marionic9001]

@@Mr.Wahoo77 And yes, Super Sonic & other Super Form characters (like Shadow) appear as Spirits.

[@aidenzach8911]

so basically spheres are gods also kirby is probably stronger than both of them

[@leonamoonslasher7070]

Not anymore 😂

[@Marionic9001]

YGOTAS Bakura Voice: "I'm surrounded by bloody wankers"

[@AnnyMossyTea]

@@Marionic9001 lol true

[@jansonshrock2859]

Meh the argument for tabuu> is still there. Giratina is NOT a spirit you can collect, so it would be safe to assume that Subspace/antimatter space can't be touched by Galeem or Dharkon, and Subspace is tabuu's realm and control. They only show up after someone else defeats Tabuu, and the spirit is not given a body anymore, so would be keen on finding any way to be given a body again, even if that body is a metallic bayonetta it seems just like a rock paper scissors type battle to me, between the smash characters, tabuu, and galeem/dharkon. note: we don't know Dharkon's power level is equal with Galeem, as when HE enters the world, he loses his fight with the smash fighters as opposed to galeem wiping them. Finally, Tabuu is able to kill kirby, even when not surprise attacking.

[@Marionic9001]

But Giratina is a Spirit you can collect and so is Arceus who made him… Subspace is never stated to have anything to do with Anti-Matter anyway, & I don’t really get it why a random Nintendo verse would have influence/power over a realm in Smash Bros… Tabuu got beat up by army of 32 characters from Brawl, while Ultimate’s roster of about 70 characters amped by hundreds of Spirits could only beat Galeem & Dharkon when they were killing each other & distracted. Dharkon is shown explicitly equal to Galeem when they fight in the end, with neither getting the upper hand unless Smashers interfere. Both bad endings show that if the Smashers allow the other being to expand their territory (that final area in the story) without it being balanced, the other will immediately destroy their opponent, but otherwise can’t. It’s pretty clear. Dharkon’s first ”defeat” actually makes them look better than Galeem’s first ”defeat”, since by that point, Smashers have collected more Spirits & Fighters so are overally far stronger when they made Galeem retreat in their first fight. But as I said in the video, their first defeats didn’t really do anything to them likely, as they are just fine fighting each other & ALL THE SMASH CHARACTERS simultaneously.

[@TabuuRulesTheSmashVerse2008]

Sonic is the strongest character not Kirby he couldn't even beat Tabuu without help, Who knows Tabuu could even consume the universe but he has no access to it.

[@RustyhairedAlp9575]

Sakurai is showing favoritism to his son

[@prod.sixxdeath]

sephiroth solos

[@TabuuRulesTheSmashVerse2008]

Galeem: Non Canon

[@piglord8293]

Kirby can beat them ez, it clearly states in their data(provided from the game) that Kirby has infinite power

[@bruhm0ment6000]

@Amanda Poole That means cloud scales to sephiroth Cloud: Wall level (Has shown to be on better shape than his fellow Shinra Infantrymen, who compare to the first AVALANCHE's soldiers, who can shatter large stone statues with a single punch), up to Multi-Continent level with Heightened Emotions (In moments of extreme emotions, Cloud has pushed himself far above his normal capabilities, assisting in the defeat of AVALANCHE's Ravens, who by measuring up to SOLDIER 3rd Class members should compare to Ifrit) and with Firearms (Shinra's weaponry is cutting edge technology that can pose danger to even their own superhuman members) | At least Multi-Continent level (As early as the beginning of the story, Cloud could defeat Sweepers, Shinra mechs recognized as worthy opponents by Ifrit, who has the power to burn down the world, as well as stronger machines such as the Guard Scorpion/Scorpion Sentinel, which are used to train by SOLDIER cadets, who themselves have access to and have fought Ifrit. Eventually grew strong enough to casually defeat full-fledged 3rd Class SOLDIER units), higher with Limit Breaks (Limit Breaks are stated to reach power far beyond the user's normal capabilities) | At least Multi-Continent level (Much stronger than before. Can now access Summons himself, including several above Ifrit, such as Leviathan and Bahamut. A Summoner's power correlates to that of his Summoned Beasts), eventually Multi-Solar System level (Should compare, if not stronger, than Red XIII who can create a starry sky with his own power with his Stardust Ray Limit Break. Defeated the pieces of Jenova, including Jenova∙DEATH who may compare to how she was during the time of the Cetra, being above Zirconiade by virtue of warranting the creation of the eight Weapons, while Zirconiade's destruction caused the deployment of simply the Jade Weapon. As Zirconiade's Summoning was considered an unprecedented crisis no other Summon had caused, this would put it above Summons Like Bahamut ZERO and Bahamut Fury both who can sustain a personal space large enough to contain countless stars, which disappeared once the Summon is defeated. Creating and sustaining starry dimensions requires this much energy), higher with Limit Breaks. Can ignore durability in several ways | Multi-Galaxy level (Controls the Knights of the Round, who can destroy a dimension large enough to contain at least two galaxies during their assault. Was instrumental to Sephiroth's defeat who could endure the power of the Knights of the Round and whose Supernova can destroy a dimension far larger than the Milky Way), higher with Limit Breaks. Can ignore urability in several ways | Multi-Galaxy level (Far stronger than before, which Sephiroth acknowledges. Once cured of his Geostigma, easily defeated Kadaj, one of the Remnants of Sephiroth, who Advent Children director, Tetsuya Nomura, stated was conceived to be as strong as Sephiroth was in the original game. Even before being cured, Cloud could keep up with Yazoo and Loz at once, as well, the other Remnants, who could easily defeat the Turks, a group who kept up with the endgame party two years before, and the former who took out Tifa Lockhart with little effort once serious, far higher with Limit Breaks (Stronger than ever, Cloud's higher-level Limit Breaks can one-shot enemies who can shrug off his regular attacks). Can ignore durability in several ways | Low Multiverse level (Is comparable to the other Warriors of Materia and draws power from the gods of the cycle. Participated in the defeat of Shinryu I literally debunked your planet and black hole feats lol they're outscaled by sephiroth you don't believe me?

[@bruhm0ment6000]

@Amanda Poole Sephiroth: Speed: Massively FTL+ (Even in his weakest incarnation, Sephiroth could easily outpace Zack Fair, who could fight and defeat Bahamut Fury) | Massively FTL+ (Capable of moving himself and other objects at this speed with telekinesis. Able to react to his own telekinesis. The blast of his Supernova is this fast) | Massively FTL+, likely higher (Stronger than before. Could easily keep up with and overwhelm a full strength Cloud during their fight at several points, who, in turn, could match Sephiroth's previous forms and his Remnants in combat, the latter while suffering from Geostigma) | Massively FTL+ (Can keep up with Warriors of Materia such as Lightning) Lifting Strength: At least Class G (Stronger physically than Zack Fair, who may compare to Cloud and by extension Tifa, the latter whom can lift and throw enemies as heavy as the Diamond Weapon), possibly Class E (Comparable if not stronger than Jenova during the time of the Cetra, who had telekinetic powers strong enough to transport a planet as her vessel through space as part of her cycle of destruction, eventually crashing it into the Northern Region with enough force to create the Northern Crater) | Class E (His telekinesis is strong enough to crash a giant comet through several planets of the Solar System. Can physically contend with the main party who were strong enough to break free from his telekinesis) | At least Class E (Far stronger than before. Can easily overpower Cloud at his full strength, who could in turn defeat Kadaj without great effort. Kadaj himself is as strong as Safer Sephiroth was) Striking Strength: At least Multi-Solar System Class, likely far higher (Despite still holding back, pushed a serious Genesis in his prime condition against the ropes during their spar, who was a match for 1st Class SOLDIER Zack Fair. Completely overpowered Zack in a swordfight and left him critically injured with just a few strikes) | Multi-Galactic (Much stronger than before. His physical attacks could heavily injure Cloud and his allies, who could survive the destructive power of the Supernova and who were comparable to the Knights of the Round by virtue of commanding them) | At least Multi-Galactic (Effortlessly parried Cloud's original Omnislash in their duel with just casual swings. The same move that destroyed him two years prior. Cloud's mid-level Limit Breaks and above are strong enough to destroy in one go enemies that can shrug off his regular attacks, and his Finishing Touch was enough to defeat Kadaj in one go, who was as strong as Safer Sephiroth) | Low Multiversal Durability: At least Multi-Solar System level, likely far higher (Was unaffected by Genesis' assault during their training, when Genesis was in prime condition. Zack was unable to deal any lasting damage during their duel, despite the latter having the strength to defeat enemies like Bahamut Fury, Minerva and Genesis himself) | Multi-Galaxy level (Can survive Ultimate End. Is completely unaffected by the blast of his own Supernova and the dimensional collapse caused by it. Endured Tifa's Final Heaven, which destroys her enemies from inside) | At least Multi-Galaxy level (Stronger than ever before. Cloud, despite becoming stronger and shown to easily defeat Kadaj, was unable to deal damage with the few hits he managed to connect and needed his absolute strongest Limit Break, the Omnislash Version 5/6, to finally defeat him) | Low Multiverse level Sephiroth in his base is already multi galaxy level add the dissidia feats it's an instant overkill

[@bruhm0ment6000]

@Amanda Poole not just sephiroth that can beat Kirby either nonono

[@bruhm0ment6000]

@Amanda Poole Sonic: Large Planet level (Superior to his Classic self and is equal to Adventure/Modern Shadow. Repeatedly defeated Chaos after he absorbed up to four Chaos Emeralds, where only one could move planetary fragments or split the Earth), higher with the Light Speed Attack (The LSA is capable of letting Sonic achieve double the damage he can normally do) | Small Star level (Fought against and defeated Emerl when he had the energy of all seven Chaos Emeralds, who had grown in strength with each one and should be capable of harnessing this level of energy. Equal to Shadow, who had given Emerl the seventh and final Chaos Emerald he needed and fought him afterwards. Is consistently stated to grow much stronger, proven by him defeating the Egg Dragoon by the time of Generations and showing strength akin to his Werehog self as well as besting Infinite after previously being effortlessly defeated by him. Could damage the Death Egg Robot, which was superior to Infinite), higher with the Light Speed Attack | Small Star level (Defeated Merlina, who had previously stomped his Adventure/Modern base form with little effort) | At least Small Star level (Formed by the conjunction of both Dark Gaia's energy and the Chaos Emeralds, which was enough to make Dark Gaia mature into its Perfect form once it absorbed said energy. Defeated the Egg Dragoon) | Universe level+ (Defeated Alf Layla-Wa Layla, who destroyed the space-time of the Arabian Nights reality just by existing and planned to recreate it in his image. Recreated the Arabian Nights reality with a gesture, and is powered by the World Rings) | Multi-Solar System level (Due to being powered by the Chaos Emeralds, he wields power far greater than that of the Final Egg Blaster) to at least Universe level+ (Fought and defeated the Egg Salamander. In conjunction with the Sol Emeralds, the Chaos Emeralds were going to merge and destroy his and Blaze's universes) to Low Multiverse level (When fully charged with positive energy, he was able to defeat Solaris alongside Super Shadow and Super Silver. Defeated the Egg Wizard alongside Burning Blaze. Easily defeated the Time Eater alongside Classic Super Sonic and reversed all the damage it caused across multiple timelines), higher with Super Rush (Instantly defeated Imperator Ix in his Super form) | At least Low Multiverse level (Far above Super Sonic, who can defeat the likes of the Egg Wizard and Solaris at his strongest. Powered by the seven Super Emeralds, which are far above the Chaos Emeralds)

[@bruhm0ment6000]

@Amanda Poole Bayonetta: Low Multiverse level (Can defeat Father Rodin who is considered to only be slightly weaker than Right eye Jubileus) | Low Multiverse level (Can fight and seriously injure a weakened Jubileus) | Low Multiverse level (Much stronger than her Bayonetta 1 base form, and can defeat Demon Rodin)

[@thesilentshadow1256]

hey btw, so were literally debating Link VS samus and you imediantly put castle vainia above her FT MY GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Link beats castle vainia no S***

[@Marionic9001]

Are you aware of any Castlevania feats? Sh*t gets pretty crazy pretty fast.

[@thesilentshadow1256]

@@Marionic9001 Aye, but all I know is that they are fighting an immortal vampire with whips and holy water.

[@Marionic9001]

@@thesilentshadow1256 If you know so little of the series, why would you make claim of Link beating them? The main plot of Castlevania pretty much entails that Dracula is Dark Lord, balancing opposite to God who created Castlevania Multiverse & other Realms, as in order for God to be purely good, being of pure darkness must exist. He literally commands concept of Death as one of his lackeys, sustains & manipulates Dimensions housing infinite Demons and is relative to beings like Chaos who maintains & manipulates Universes & is conceptual entity. Every character in the series is capable of beating the sh*t out of Time Reaper, who can destroy Time & Space itself, erasing thousands of years worth of Eras from the history. There’s people scaling to alternate Universes, soul absorption, casual time/space f*ckery & arguments for Infinite/Inaccessible speeds. There’s lot more if you’re interested.

[@thesilentshadow1256]

@@Marionic9001 Aye, I think ill research it myself.

[@Hamantha]

Dude leave my left ear alone

[@DagothUrAmaranth]

Zanza>>>>>them

[@Marionic9001]

Base Shulk with fake Monado & sum friends be taking him on

[@DagothUrAmaranth]

@@Marionic9001 tbf I think Alvis was helping them out too, But it is a hugely impressive feat

[@charmingmagican9821]

Sonic and mario solos

[@jay-yi9im]

The smash version are weak compared to their cannon counterparts .. if this was outside of smash Kirby, Mario bros , bowser, Bayonetta, sonic , etc would’ve killed Galeem before he unleashed his big attacked

[@egeparlak8004]

Then explain why Infinite, Dimentio, Paper Bowser and Paper Mario are spirits

[@jay-yi9im]

@@egeparlak8004 a lot of characters in the smash verse are spirits what yo point lil bro ?