Federal Punch .22 WMR VS .38 Special+P Ballistic Test

[@GunSam]

I mentioned that I have seen a lot of other videos on this .22 WMR ammunition and stated how it performed for other people. Keep in mind that I didn't see a single other video where denim or clothing of any kind was incorporated into the test like in my test.

[@jamesmarkov9570]

Old time lawman Bill Jordan talked up the M-19 .357 magnum as a duty gun. He had praise for .22 magnum pistols for strange penetration power

[@andywilson8698]

I'd like to see 22mag fmj vs 22lr punch and see how they compare short barrel and long barrel.

[@podsmpsg1]

Even if the punch bullets didn't expand, they still penetrated deep enough to reach vital organs.

[@GeographyCzar]

I tested the 22 Magnum Punch from a NAA Black Widow (2" barrel) through a 2 layer and a 4 layer denim barrier and thick cut pork chops. Both of the test rounds expanded fully and penetrated to the back of the 3rd gallon jug of water beyond the pork chops. I also chronographed the 22 Magnum Punch from the Black Widow and found an average of over 1100 fps! Video will publish on the evening of Tuesday, September 13th.

[@Rick-hx1ne]

Pmr 30 or Walther WMP they shoot faster than the revolver bec don't have cylinder gas gap it completely seal and increase fps than revolver. Maybe 200 fps faster .

[@ironmikehallowween]

The 38 Special is a magnificent handgun cartridge. So easy to shoot well. Low recoil. Low report. Very effective. Very accurate. All that most people need to defend themselves. Thanks for the video.

[@GunSam]

It's my favorite, or one of my favorites. It's "negatives" are often it's positives, like low pressure too big of case, well throw a wadcutter in there and you got .22 recoil, fill it and you got 9mm+P energy. Forgiving, easy to handload. I have cases I have handloaded 30 times with no holes or stretching, that low pressure means high longevity.

[@Nexy9]

You could just get a 357 that is as light a load as .38 special. There's no reason for a .38 when .357 exists. Every kind of load for .357 exists including some that feel like plain .38 wadcutter to .38+p to .357 bear stopper loads.

[@olvera6710]

@@Nexy9 you must be talking handloads. There is no manufactured 357 that feels like a 38 wadcutter. There would be no point of calling it 357 other than case length.

[@davidaustin4407]

Best ballistic channel on youtube! Shooting real stuff that real people use! Thanks for working hard on these videos!

[@GunSam]

Thank you

[@krashgamingandoutdoors1125]

Maybe if he would test things better. He never gets expansion. Even with rounds that definitely expand and have been proven to expand. He also sounds like he doesn't even want to be out there shooting. Makes me think he already knows what's going to happen. But then again I already know whats going to happen because all his "tests" bring the same boring result. Don't lie to him. Let him know how it is. He should be able to take it.

[@SaintBrianTheGodless]

I own a Heritage like yours. Paul Harrell just did a video using one and chronographed it along with another pistol and it seems that the Heritage has much lower velocity. Slightly larger bore maybe? Not sure but it might affect expansion.

[@anangryranger]

Very interesting comparison test. And very glad to see more revolvers being used. It seems like everyone and their pet poodle are into the 9mm auto craze. So sick of hearing 9mm, 9mm, 9mm etc. So, good going there with the wheelguns! 👍

[@melissasmess2773]

Also so tired of poodles armed with 9mm when .357 magnum is way better 😂

[@GunSam]

9mm is one of those weird things. It's "good" but then it's not. The energy is good, with the right bullet design it expands well, but in the real world even with all that "good", bad guys are still taking 12 rounds of it to stop. Stats show lesser powered .380 and .38 Special having more "stopping power". It's really a mystery.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

@Some Guy 99 Sam has tested .357sig on this channel. It does significantly better than 9mm. In the max Sig loads from Underwood for example, it'll match and in some minor cases exceed the energy of .357magnum. But that's not an apples to apples comparison in most cases. Just shows some overlap. It's a 10mm necked down to .355.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

@Some Guy 99 Good choice. Just saying, the Sig is a decent semi-auto cartridge for something of an alternative to fat .45acp or hot 10mm. I don't particularly care for 9mm or .40 S&W myself. I chose .45acp outside rimmed stuff, otherwise easily .38 Special is the most usable and versatile. Magnum is "only" double the pressure of standard .38 Special, it's a handful.

[@rogersweet_OP]

@Some Guy 99 And the FBI and most of our armed forces are using 357, right?

[@frankhinkle5772]

I get why you tested these two against each other. Good test and evaluation.

[@toolmakerbest1584]

That brought back memories. Back in the day when carrying and shooting competition with a wheel gun, I'd check to make sure all rounds slid into the chambers prior to loading my speed loaders. Great video, as usual! 👍👍

[@SaintBrianTheGodless]

By the way... I can't shoot outdoors where I live but I bought a bunch of Aguila Colibri powderless ammo and practice in my basement with two NNA minirevolvers and the heritage I have like yours. Very useful to be able to practice with the tiny guns, since they are very hard to aim if you don't practice a lot.

[@javamanV3]

Thanks Brother! Nice Shooting. I have a Heritage 22Mag (22 LR/short ) Just like yours, snff ss S&W model 19/4) I have about the same results accuracy wise. Nice shooting at distance - I wish I had a longer rang - But it is what it is. 40 yd seems to be the range to practice these days after the guy at the mall...I think the Smith would do it, but not the Heritage. The Smith is such an accurate revolver! I like the Horrnady 357 125 Gr or handloads 125 GR Hornady HP. When You tube fixed it when it wasn't broken, I lost track of your channel for a while, glad to see you again!

[@GunSam]

Thanks for finding me!

[@callumbush1]

They'll both put you down with a few well placed rounds!

[@sumoneelse6881]

I have heard 380 Acp comparisons to the 22 wmr. I have personally never heard anyone with more than a few brain cells compare the 22 wmr to 38 special. Kool test either way

[@carloparisi9945]

While it's not a buffalo load, that 22 mag. in the SA revolver may be a good choice for some people, I'm thinking about some older fellow, who would not like the recoil of a bigger caliber, would have trouble with a DA trigger and racking a slide. A natural competitor may be the 32 S&W long.

[@CandidZulu]

I agree .22wmr is a excellet choice for a lot of people, and I would suggest a Ruger SA. Hitting the target is far more important than anything. Exept not hitting bystanders of course.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

While it's not affordable for a lot of people, S&W has a 22 wmr in a classic 6-shot, the model 48. Also you can run the short barrel snubbies in 22 wmr with a velocity penalty. Maybe the best balanced is the Ruger LCRx 3" for this cartridge.

[@bryantbutlermf]

S&wl sucks bad I own one and I’m better off hitting things with it physically

[@oldcop18]

I still hear how weak the .38 Spl. is, yet given my street experience w/my issued .38 I’ll call BS on that any day.

[@patrickrodriguez320]

I'd like to see 38spl vs 327 fed mag. The 22magnum has always been real neat and interesting to me. But I know the 38spl is much more powerful.

[@deborahchesser7375]

Man I love my Heritage RR especially for the money. With that WMR cylinder in there it’s a mean little piece.

[@kevanhubbard9673]

.22 Magnum and it's cousin .17 HMR shine out of rifles but can be underwhelming out of handguns and sometimes the bullets spin and go in sideways.

[@ironmikehallowween]

True. The22 mag and 17 HMR light things up out of a rifle. The 22 mag does pretty well out of a 22 Auto Mag 6 inch barrel or an 8,5 inch AMT accelerator, 1600 and 1900 FPS respectively, but they both need more barrel length to achieve their potential. Having said that, you don’t want to be standing in front of them.

[@beanalog8202]

Hey, that was a cool comparison, thanks for always keeping it interesting. Love wheelguns baby!

[@robertseafield5810]

Good video. For revolver carry ammo I try each round in each chamber. For autoloaders, I plunk test each round. You can get bad ammo from any maker. You dont want to find that out in the middle of a situation.

[@castlecarry]

For people wondering about the .22 revolver he's using here: The Heritage Rough Rider series is designed for .22 LR but has interchangeable cylinders allowing it to accept 22 WMR. Although both cartridges are considered 22-caliber, the 22 LR fires 0.223” diameter bullets while the 22 WMR (magnum) fires a 0.224” bullet diameter. (I have the Heritage Rough Rider Barkeep Boot version of that series of revolvers which is a hilarious little package with some 22 WMR snake shot shells.)

[@Brandon-to9vp]

Why even bother with the .001 difference, such a crazy cork for a gun to have haha 😂

[@castlecarry]

@@Brandon-to9vp because the .001” larger bullet is fired with approximately twice the powder. Much faster. That equates to more effect on target.

[@Brandon-to9vp]

@@castlecarry that's weird because most gel test show similar results between the 2

[@bryantbutlermf]

@@Brandon-to9vp drop a link please

[@Brandon-to9vp]

@@bryantbutlermf kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4DdanWVjal7ars

[@cajunstacker1376]

I really enjoy all the videos you put out. I love to see the revolvers

[@AmericaFirstLastGlimmerOfLight]

As always great and fair test! 👍🏼🤠 Thank you!

[@richardelliott9511]

Thanks for this interesting comparison. Beyond the comparison, I often wonder what is the point of having that expensive hollow point 38 cal bullet if it doesn't expand. Seems to me that one would be better off with a much cheaper, medium hard Keith style semi wadcutter. The only reason that I can think of that they would choose a none expanding hollowpoint is that it might give better penetration on hard barriers over a lead bullet but is that important in a self defense situation? The 22mag performed pretty much as expected, that is giving you 22lr rifle ballistics from a pistol. For the purposes of this test it would be valuble to find another revolver that can stabilize the bullet better and run the test again. I never get any keyholes from my Single Six 22 mag but it does have a 6 1/2 inch barrel.

[@timhallas4275]

You made a valid point. This test did not come close to getting the most out of the .22WMR round that he chose, but did maximize the potential of the .38 +P round. Barrel length to barrel length is only valid when comparing handgun round to handgun round. The 45 grain .22WMR is optimized at 24 inches of barrel length. So let's meet them in the middle. Run the .38sp +P in a 16 inch barrel and compare that to the .22WMR out of the same barrel length. THAT would be a useful comparison.

[@Mattlock52]

A good +p hollow point .38 will expand.

[@shermrock345]

I had found some 150 grain box of ammo for my .38 special and I was the best thing that I ever ran through that lil gun.

[@sombra6153]

As much as I hate to say it, the most accurate .38 Special ammo in my opinion are the older low tech 148 grain wadcutters, the 158 grain semi wadcutters, and the 147 grain Hydra Shok +p+ - especially in short barrels. The .22 mag in a J-frame looks interesting on paper with its light weight, lighter recoil, and two extra rounds over a .38, but your test showed, at least with the Punch, that it’s not very effective on much other than tin cans. I’ve read some results where the .22 mag performed better, however.

[@margarethouse404]

.22WMR from 2in gives similar velocity to .22lr from a 4 in . .22WMR needs 4 plus inch to be worthwhile . From 4 3/4 and 5.5 SAs , 40gr will give 13-1400 fps .

[@bobcatforever3485]

Good video. Interesting ammo comparison. Thanks for sharing. Take care.

[@jpb1231000]

LOVE to see your version of the Hyper Velocity ammo test w/ "Stangerz", "Yeller Jackits" Velocitors and Agula HP 30 and 40 and the Winchester 1480 fps 40 grains in gel compared w/ Punch from a Marlin 60, 10/22 or Henry lever rifles... I'm crazy about Butt nekid 22 lr rounds!!!

[@c.miller3802]

That's a good test , interesting . Other videos shot the mag expanding very well .

[@skiphinson8620]

How does the old original Winchester 40 grain HP at the advertised 1910 FPS velocity stack up in your ballistic gel test in a revolver? I can’t seem to find videos floating around that test this particular ammo. I have a few Ruger single sixes, both with 5-1/2 inch barrels and a .22 mag rifle and I’ve never found a better .22 mag round than the Winchester 40 grain HP or the fmj, depending on if you want expansion or not. I do not have ballistic gel to test with but using wet newspapers or old catalogs stacked up or shooting into a nice fairly consistent red clay dirt pile, I’ve had the best results with the Winchester 40 grainers. Even in my little NAA .22 mag with the 1-1/8 inch barrel, I get the most impressive results with this load compared to CCI and others in the various new loadings that are today’s popular rounds to test. Sure would love to see the old standard Winchester .22 mag HP and solids tested in ballistic gel. Thanks for another great video.

[@jasonashley4579]

That federal punch is pretty good stuff, I carry thart in my 442 from time to time.

[@GeographyCzar]

You beat me again, Gun Sam! My .22 Mag test is scheduled to publish on Tuesday the 13th.

[@GunSam]

Well it will probably be more interesting than mine if you use a shorter barrel.

[@GeographyCzar]

@@GunSam I do indeed! And my results were fantastic!

[@yuvgotubekidding]

Let’s face it. We just love guns. 😁👍🇺🇸

[@bluemouse5039]

Let's face it no matter how much argument about the viability of a 22 or 22 magnum as a self defense weapon or stopping power it just doesn't measure up to a 380, 9mm or 38 special , I don't know of any police force or military anywhere in the world that has even tried using a 22 rimfire as their issued sidearm,

[@TheKentuckyPatriot]

Cool man! Thanks for all you do!

[@GunSam]

Thanks for stopping by!

[@highermedia]

Weird how that 38 didn't expand but on your test from last year the expansion was really good

[@traumajock]

Mixup98 got great results from a 2 inch barrel with this ammo. But he wasn't shooting through cloth.

[@disgustedvet9528]

I'm using the 22 mag as a nightstand revolver , 8 shots from maybe 10 feet max . I'll keep the 9mm for my carry though .

[@grizz474]

8 rds of .22mag would certainly drive off most if not all two legged bumps in the night. So would 5rds of .38, 7rds of .380, however many rds of 9mm....even the lowly 22lr and .25.....anything's better than nothing.

[@danoneill2846]

I just tested my 16" FM-9 AR on av I got 200 Ft/Sec more vel than your 4" .. some was the same lot # you tested . The best +P was 124 Speer Gold dot @ 1,400+ Ft/sec , best non +P was SIG 124 @ 1,350 FT/sec . Fed FMJ & Win wt box JHP 115 gr , both got 1,315 Ft/sec . I think Horn Crit Duty 135 gr +P may be as good , the vel was lower than the 124 gr JHPs , but the bullet is stronger & may hold together better at close range ....

[@GunSam]

I have been asked a lot to do carbine 9mm. I might. Just depends on the month and how well I am doing. I could do Hipoint at any time, or do the Ruger if I am having a good month. Your numbers might be useful to see if a cheap carbine is as fast as something like the FM-9.

[@danoneill2846]

Next I will try the 16" 10mm RE +P+ Ranger 127 9mm for only 25 FT/Sec over the gold dot ,,, the primer looked a lot flatter , I would only use that in winter in a rifle .. never in any 9mm handgun . BTW the crit duty 135 +P got 1,150 from the AR , Sam got 1,094 from his 5" S&W . Around cars , likely a winner !!

[@danoneill2846]

@@GunSam It was only 15 ft from a rest , I was shooting kind of fast to save time .. 40 rounds went into 1 large hole , zero jams . From 147 gr to 115 gr .

[@noahbianchi1920]

Interesting. I was also told that 38 special was no better than 22 magnum. I’d be curious to see the comparison when it wasn’t + P.

[@nathanlambshead4778]

I remember those days, when a 22 wmr was equal to a 38 spcl. Along with a lot more urban legends. lol I knew instinctively, that if I have to shoot through clothes and bones, I want more weight behind the projectile. BUt I will say, the 22 wmr is my favorite home defense caliber by far. For wood chucks, coons, skunks, etc. Awesome round for the job. Especially out of a scoped rifle.

[@professorpewpuew]

Jeff Quinn talked up the 22 Magnum as penetrating favorably against the 38 Special. There is certainly alot of truth to that but just look at the damage path. I love 22 Mag but those wound tracts are ice-pick in character compared to the 38. That does matter.

[@GunSam]

I like the .22 Mag, more or less becomes a pocket .22 LR rifle for ballistics. But that being said, a .22 LR rifle is something literally no one would say is a decent defense choice.

[@Mister-sm1hs]

@@GunSam false I'm good w 22lr and so is @demonstratedconcepts

[@christophernemeth421]

​@@GunSam there are a decent number of people online that claim that they would choose a 22lr for self defense vs a more effective cartridge because they are such fantastic shots with guns chambered in it.

[@hubertwalters4300]

Sitting here I remember several people who met their death from the barrel of a .22LR handgun,that ice pick wound track through the heart,or the major arteries coming to the heart,or leaving the heart results in a quick death.

[@christophernemeth421]

@@hubertwalters4300 there is zero question that a 22lr can kill you, but it is far from the most effective self defense round. Barring some sort of medical issue that limits what someone could shoot, if you had to choose between a rifle chambered in 22lr or a rifle chambered in 556 what would anyone honestly choose?

[@latigomorgan]

I've only used the Punch in .22LR and 9mm. The round does quite well for me in those loadings - except in the Beretta Bobcat 21A. It won't cycle a full mag without a few malfunctions. The same pistol eats Stingers and MiniMags with no problems at all. In my CZ-P01, it gives me the tightest groups of any other ammo I've tried.

[@GunSam]

I can't recall how the Punch did in my model 21. I did test it a year ago in that, I recall it running fine but maybe I had issues.

[@latigomorgan]

@@GunSam I've seen it go either-or. Some 21As run it flawlessly and some don't. Maybe if I polished the chamber it would run it better, but since it runs the other ammo just fine, I haven't done so, yet.

[@JoseyWalesWi]

Another interesting comparison..thanks!

[@williamrowell3053]

I ordered a couple of boxes of the 38+p 120 grain Federal punch, the 1st first box was fine, the 2nd box had a round with the bullet seated backwards in the case. I had never seen this before, I think maybe Federal's quality control maybe suspect. I won't buy anymore Punch ammo.

[@GunSam]

That's pretty bad. I once had the same thing with Hornady Critical Defense .38+P. I informed them that a bullet was upside down, and whoever I talked to acted like I was making it all up and was trying to cash in or something. This was all emails, I messaged back that I just wanted them to know that this happened and I caught it before I fired the round. Then he's all offering me baseball caps with the Hornady logo on them, which I found odd. I told him, if you want to send a hat or not send a hat I don't care, I just wanted you guys to know.

[@actionjackson1stIDF]

Another interesting comparison. I think comparing Hornady .38 Critical Defense .vs Hornady .22 Mag Critical Defense would be more interesting.

[@GunSam]

I have done the Critical Defense before, but with a 4 7/8" Heritage Rough Rider. Next week I am purchasing a 2" Heritage Barkeep and I do have like 35 rounds of both Critical Defense and Gold Dot .22 Mag which are hard to find now days. I plan on 2" VS 2" Critical Defense .22 WMR VS .38 Special as one of my first ballistic tests. Will probably be a couple weeks before I publish such a video.

[@UserFormelyKnownAs_hjkh]

I dont care what anyones personal negative opinion on 22 mag or LR is....i still dont want to get shot with either of them!

[@jasonsliger5430]

I'm not particularly impressed with this particular.22 wmr ammo myself. I've seen several tests too.

[@margarethouse404]

The latest batch of " defensive " .22WMR is designed for snubs and mini revolvers . For 4 inch and longer , it's hard to beat the old school W-W 40gr JHP .

[@stevegimenez9981]

That's some real good shooting with a 38. That's a real good video I like the 22 Meg but you can't put it up against the 38.

[@bigrocc3925]

Sad to see both fail to expand. I would hate to have that happen in one of my carry loads, I strictly carry critical defense jhp in 357 for the wheelgun and 9 for the 9 Never tested them tho

[@GunSam]

My first ever gel test was with Punch 9mm and .38 Special. Both expanded in that initial test, but for whatever reason didn't this time around.

[@357magstreet9]

I carry critical duty 125 gr jhp in my 357 mag. Will eventually make a test vid. hopefully they expand.

[@actionjackson1stIDF]

The only time I don't Critical Defense rounds is if I am carrying my Sig P226 in .357 SIG. Then I carry Hornady Critical Duty because the Critical Defense in .357 Sig is impossible to find. Personally I have found Critical Defense to be the most reliable defensive round out of my CZ P07 in 9MM, Springfield Champion in .45 ACP, Kel-Tec PMR20 in .22 Mag or my Ruger GP100 with either .38 SPL or .357 Mag.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Can't really beat a 38 Special +p in 110gr Barnes Tac-XP.

[@anthonyn.3575]

I got the heritage rough rider with interchangeable cylinder (.22lr & .22wmr). With the .22lr cylinder I have NO problems…every round fires. BUT with the .22wmr cylinder, with each cylinder, I probably get 2-3 misfires/no fires. Not sure if it’s light primer strike or what 🤷‍♂️

[@richardmoorer2668]

Look up Sheriff Jim Wilson , he was a proponent of the venerable. 22 magnum as a self defense cartridge

[@roberthill6554]

Not the 1st video I've seen of the Federal Punch 38 +P failing to perform. Thank you for doing your Test with the MDF.. Gives more of a realistic aspect to it... Can you Test the CCI Blazer (3514) 38 Special +P 125 Gr JHP?

[@GunSam]

The thing with the Blazer is there's no way it will expand. I have tested other Blazer JHP's before, (but not the 125 gr JHP) and even in .357 Magnum there's zero expansion. The reason why is they use a target hollow point called the Speer Plinker. Looks like a hollow point but it's not designed to expand, just designed to put more weight at the rear so it flies straighter, more accurate like how a rifle bullet has more weight in the rear.

[@roberthill6554]

@@GunSam Did not know that,,, Either way I picked up a few boxes for $20 a box of 50. and my EDC Round for my snub nose is a +P... so not too often you can get a +P practice round for that kind of price. Have you ever tested the Fiocchi Defense Dynamics 9mm JHP. many say it runs hot like a +P and I also got a few boxes for $20 a box of 50. like to know if these are a diamond in the rough JHP that expands under your testing.

[@orangecrush5512]

Forget the ammo comparison. Just looking at these two guns side by side lets you know which one packs the bigger punch. The .38 crushes the .22WMR out of a short barrel. Carry what you can shoot well, though. I don't want a hole punched in me by either of these rounds. The .22 WMR will still scramble you brains or deflate your lung, or bleed out your heart.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

And it's exactly that, hemorrhaging that does someone in, no matter what handgun cartridge or caliber. Bigger caliber just gets the job handled sooner, assuming adequate penetration in all comparisons.

[@margarethouse404]

THIS .22WMR load is .... uninspiring , behaving much like 22lr RN . But there's other . better loads out there . Will a good .22WMR be " better " than a good .38spl ? Nah . But a 40gr HP W-W or CCI from a gun this size closes the gap a lot , and with minimal recoil . To give a different slant , I'd rather have trusty Single Six with W-W 40gr JHP . than a pocket size .380 with FMJ .

[@exothermal.sprocket]

@@margarethouse404 Or a Ruger LCR running 22 wmr.

[@erniewalden3050]

Glad i stoped by here before buying this ammo. At my local gun store this ammo runs $38 for the 38s.

[@joeltowle2737]

Have you shot the 38spl punch in a Snubbie yet? I almost bought some. Great video

[@BobMarley-dk9hn]

Great video. The proof is in the pudding!

[@butchcase6351]

Actually the old addage was that a ".22mag hp was better than shooting the old under powered .38 special 158 grain round nose" that police carried for years.

[@andywilson8698]

Would love to see 22mag fmj vs 22lr punch in different barrels lengths.

[@rippertrain]

You gotta stand back further so the bullets can achieve full velocity. Just jokes great vid as always , cheers from canada

[@GunSam]

yeah the rocket motor in there takes time to speed up.

[@rippertrain]

@@GunSam I watched a video where people actually thought the bullet keeps gaining speed after it leaves the barrel. Unreal, and these are the people that make laws that we have to live by.

[@tiger7655]

Sorry off topic. I'm going to get your sign, "The average response time...." and mount it on my Catalytic Converter!

[@electrochubb]

yo' Sam, Thanks for putting that myth to sleep for good.

[@dangerman007]

I would say that the .38 sets the bar for a defensive cartridge. The 22 magnum with such a small, light projectile just can't compete with it.

[@Gieszkanne]

Until its 5.56 😄

[@dangerman007]

@@Gieszkanne LOL!

[@BB-1990]

Yet it exceeds the FBI minimum standard.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Any volunteers want to stand at 20 yards and catch some 22 mag? Anyone?

[@SWMissouriOutdoors]

Great test. I just lucked into 1000, 120 grain JHP bullets to load. From what I can find they must be the 120gr Punch bullet. Can't find load data for it specifically but in comparison with 125gr XTPs, the distance from cannelure to base os longer on the 120gr bullet, actually more similar to the 140 XTP in case capacity when seated to cannelure. That's the data I started with. Any way you could find a shot bullet and measure cannelure to base on a known 120gr Federal punch bullet? That would help me identify what I have. Many thanks!

[@Pappy_1775]

You even said at the beginning of the video, that back in the day, people said ".22 magnum is just as powerful as .38 special" which was probably true because "back then" there wasn't a whole lot of +P ammo. If you used standard .22 magnum against standard .38 special you would have different results.

[@Justintheinsane]

Really thought the .22 mag would expand a bit more. The .38 rarely seems to expand properly when speeds are less than 1000fps.

[@chrisgabbert658]

👍😊 on the Heritage check the chamber alignment on each one with the barrel.

[@terrygoolsby2160]

Like to see in 22 mag hornady defense and Winchester silver box. Ive had good luck with both

[@sleeve8651]

Loss of power thru cylinder leakage ? PMR - 30...etc. ! But...what are you using it for ?

[@mkshffr4936]

Rather than becoming like a FMJ it probably acts more like a WFP whene failing to expand. That is not necessarily a bad thing.

[@progunliberal]

I just got an naa mini revolver in 22 mag! Have you considered getting ahold of one to subject to your excellent ballistics tests with some of the better ammo you've tried in larger guns?

[@GunSam]

I used to have one. I just didn't care for it.

[@progunliberal]

@@GunSam they are really neat though! Well made little objects. Regardless, if you had one to borrow, it would be cool to see same ammo from the mini revolver next to a longer barrel to see just how much is lost in ballistics.

[@mrwayne5158]

Why are all tests of .22wmr out of revolvers & micro revolvers? Use a .22wmr rifle & test different types of ammo, & please dont use hollow points for penetration tests like some people do 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@1984_media]

Great test.

[@bryantbutlermf]

The mag out performed in every way

[@grahamohea2424]

You can compare any two calibers, barrel lengths, or design as long as there is a standard that can be used to measure each equally. A comparison between .22LR and .50BMG is fair as long as they are getting the same test, with the test being designed for a specific purpose. The FBI standard is such a test, as are modified protocols like the one used here

[@GunSam]

You can always find a standard point to compare. Now with these two guns not so much, but the fact that the J frame and LCR both have identical guns in .38 Special 5 shot and .22 Mag 7 or 8 shot (can't remember) means that there's situations where a person is debating both of these calibers in the same role, therefore they are very comparable calibers.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

@@GunSam LCR/x is 6-shot in 22 wmr, all barrel lengths. 22 lr is 8-shot all barrel lengths. Really, Ruger could have easily made a 7-shot cylinder for the 22wmr. But then I look at all the meat in the S&W Model 17 cylinder in 22 lr. haha

[@bigracer3867]

Well both would hurt like hl!! In fact that 22 might be more dangerous that 38. In certain instances.

[@higgy5499]

You’ve got a serious problem with the 22mag pistol , light hammer strikes and I’d guess cylinder misalignment issues hence dismal accuracy

[@ST19859]

Im guessing this rumor is coming from a comparison of a fairly standard 38 load vs a 22 mag from a long rifle, in that case the 22 mag ballistics beat a 38 nearly every time, the 22 is dramatically different coming from a pistol. From a rifle with a hot load it exceeds all but the hottest 38 loads and will penetrate 3A armor.

[@GunSam]

.22 Mag from a rifle doesn't 'beat' a .38 Special from a handgun. You might be able to deliver more energy than a standard .38 Special round, but maxing out at about 50 gr will not be as effective as a much heavier .38 Special bullet.

[@ST19859]

@@GunSam Energy is energy, a bullet with 30% less of it isn't somehow more effective just because it has a heavier bullet, I really dont understand why so many people believe that. Fact of the matter is a standard pressure .38 is pretty weak energy wise even in comparison to a 9mm which also has a much heavier bullet than the 22 WMR . To each their own, but a .38 isn't going to be making my first choice as a self defense round anytime soon, even if I really needed a revolver.

[@commonsense1649]

would like to see the 22 magnum punch in a rifle for a test. if you have multiple rifles then in the short and longest barrel showing gel and fps Thanks

[@reelfishing002]

Real distance 15-20 yards for outside and 10-15 for indoor , not sure you can be justify at 25 yard plus for self defense indoor (of course it all comes down to where you live ) my state (run first , shoot last , no stand your ground )

[@DanTheWolfman]

Whoa the punch not expanding 2" well ok but not expanding 4" is Unexemptable what's up Federal????

[@ammooth1592]

I 👀 why they are sometimes hard to get on the federal ammunition site.

[@YellowHammer26]

👍👍thanks for the comparison

[@ammooth1592]

Gotta get me some before they are all gone 🤝

[@facasdeguerra8402]

.38 SPL vs .38+p vs 327 Federal Magnum. Please

[@sirgangar]

If I don't seat all my .22 WMR they sometimes miss fire. Not saying that is your case. I am looking at heritage RR nine shot revolvers really like those single actions.

[@Drknow-mx1fj]

Why compare that was a dumb question its why not you have to do research and compare all types of ammo to see what works best and the damages they can cause as well sometimes a smaller caliber can do more than a bigger one so thanks for comparing and showing the results

[@ammooth1592]

I am feeling federal 120 grain punch 👊 .38 ➕ P 💯

[@podsmpsg1]

I carry Federal Punch .38 Special in my S&W M&P Bodyguard. If I get a S333, I might keep Federal Punch .22 Magnum in it.

[@GunSam]

I think the punch is much better than the .38 HST, and I really like Federal ammo. I often keep my 20 Oz Taurus .357 2" snub loaded with Buffalo Bore .38 Special+P 125 XTP.

[@podsmpsg1]

@@GunSam Really?, wow. I want to get HST Micro, but I haven't been able to find it in the store. Buying ammo online where I live is a little tricky, I don't know how to do it, it's okay.

[@mikewallace8087]

I think of the .22 WMR as something as a 5ft 4in. spitfire woman. Go ahead , test her out.

[@crusiethmaximuss]

Hey, Sam, do you plan on doin' a comparison between .22 Hornet with somethin' in the future?

[@GunSam]

No, I don't know much about those type of cartridges.

[@crusiethmaximuss]

@@GunSam Neither do I, and whilst searchin', I came across another obscure cartridge called .218 BEE... How many small arms cartridges are there...

[@butchcase6351]

Also that punch ammo hasn't been very good in most tests I have seen. You might want to try the new Winchester Silvertips in .22 mag and .38 special.

[@JCL43]

Good video but one thing that needs to be done is sighting in the guns before testing. The 22 mag was way off.

[@GunSam]

sighting? Just how is that done on a fixed sight gun? lol

[@drehewitt4921]

Gun sam would you rather 7 shots of 22 magnum or 5 shots of 38 special?

[@GunSam]

I think I would rather have 3 shots of .38 Special over 7 of .22 Mag.

[@bobjohnson1633]

If I'm carrying a 38, I'm not too worried about the ammo, but 158 was cutters smoke 9mm anything.

[@SilenceDoGood4th]

I have never had an issue with federal ammo in my heritage

[@magnum_0710]

Im surprised the 38s measured at .355 and .356, they're definitely not the same bullets they use for 9mm...this tells me my 38 and 357 HST experiments may be worthwhile afterall. Federal used to use the 147 9mm hydrashok in their 38 +p+ load...if you're interested in testing the 9mm HST bullets in 38/357 let me know ill send you the projectiles

[@GunSam]

The bore of each particular firearm can squeeze the bullet down to the bore size of the gun. Every gun can have slightly different variances in bore size.

[@DanTheWolfman]

So funny I was just looking at punch results last night for .22 mag seems good from 3" barrel like Legit good. In fir later

[@GunSam]

I've debated getting the Heritage barkeep and slapping the mag barrel in it for tests. I feel it's underrated. I'm betting I could perfect some fast shooting, maybe even hammer fanning lol, could be a decent concealed carry choice for someone with a $200 budget.

[@hikingwChris]

It's a lot like comparing a 4 cylinder engine to a six cylinder engine.

[@davidlee8551]

Thanks!

[@grizz474]

I guess I wouldn't wanna pay for a hollow point that doesn't do anything more than a wad cutter. Might as well shoot wad cutter!

[@margarethouse404]

Better yet , one of the plethora of 38 spl loads that Do expand .

[@timhallas4275]

Well, the .22mag is a rifle round, so it's ballistics depend on a 20 inch or longer barrel. That invalidates this comparison. Maybe a better test would be with guns that more accurately represent the designed purpose of these cartridges. Try a snub-nose (1.5 inch barrel) for your .38 special,, and a rifle with a 22 inch barrel for the .22 mag. I would bet the .22 will crush the .38 in both penetration and damage done.

[@GunSam]

This .22 Mag ammo is handgun ammo. In a rifle the .38 Special is still more powerful. If you used a hot .38+P you're approaching 700 ft lbs in a rifle, the .22 Mag in a rifle, maybe 300 ft lbs. I did laugh about you saying invalidates though lol. You have to realize like everyone else, that "comparison" based on specific parameters like concealed carry handgun VS concealed carry handgun has to stay within those parameters, and also realize that the word is "comparison", not "COMPETITION". The comparison is not invalid, even if I used .22 short VS .50 BMG the comparison would not be invalid. If I said this was a competition, I would have said so, not said compare. Why compare? Because people ask for it, people debate what is a better low recoil handgun option between the two.

[@timhallas4275]

@@GunSam The .22WMR is a rifle round by design,, including the slow burn powder and how much it uses. What this manufacturer did was to put a heavier bullet in this ammo cartridge as an attempt to compensate for the lower velocity it will achieve out of a short (handgun) barrel. They did not, and cannot put fast burning pistol powder in this cartridge, because it can and will also be used in a rifle. They DID NOT convert a rifle cartridge into a handgun cartridge. Other ammo manufacturers have done similar tricks to their rim-fire rifle rounds in order to grab a bigger piece of the growing .22 rim-fire handgun market. Saying that a cartridge is "short barrel" friendly does not make it handgun ammo. The reason I said this was not a valid comparison is because you already knew that the .22WMR round you chose had poor ballistics when used in a 4.5 inch barrel handgun. Why not find a rifle that shoots .38 special and put it up against the best rated .22WMR round out of a 24in barrel bolt action rifle. .38 special does not gain much velocity by running it through a long rifled barrel... but .22WMR looses half it's velocity or more out of a short barrel.

[@GunSam]

@@timhallas4275 I think you're missing the point. This is a handgun ballistic comparison. The fact that both S&W J-frames and Ruger LCR's along with many other guns in the same exact size, offer those guns in .38 Special and .22 Mag, there are people considering one or the other for a handgun, not a rifle.

[@timhallas4275]

@@GunSam They have been making handguns in .22LR for almost as long as the round has been in existence. That doesn't change the fact that it is still a rifle cartridge by design, therefore a poor handgun cartridge. The same is true of every rifle cartridge. Someone went so far as to make a revolver that shoots 45/70 rifle rounds. Those rounds cost about $2.50 each will nearly break your wrist, but out of a 5 inch barrel, they are slower than a .45LC and have less kinetic energy than a .44magnum. The point is, nobody is going to load the 45/70 for handgun performance, and nobody is going to load the .22WMR for handgun performance either. On the other hand, .22WMR can be had for 26 cents per round, and deliver .380 performance at half the price. To me, that alone makes it a viable handgun round. But when compared to 9mm, it loses both on performance and cost. Where it shines is in the rifle market, because for 26 cents you get long range performance and 320+ ft lbs of killing power.

[@nealamesbury7953]

Mdf. ?