Fellow Ode and Baratza Virtuoso+ Comparison

[@Mandocammarano505]

I use James Hoffmanm’s technique with a very tiny drop of water on the back of a spoon and mix around in the coffee before grinding to reduce static and it works great for me. Don’t know if it’s still safe to have a tiny amount of moisture in the steel burrs though.

[@bobbyomari5500]

DUDE!!! Just the video I was searching for a few hours ago that wasn’t out!!! Thank you! I’ll be calling Prima tomorrow...

[@DarylSawatzky]

The slower speed of the Baratza is a feature, not a bug. They grind slower to prevent heating and you can really hear the machine torque through the beans at a slow deliberate pace. I love that about this machine. It's the quietest grinder I've ever owned. Not to say it's quiet... but quieter.

[@brucechandler9484]

I have BOTH grinders and I have to say the Fellow Ode has my vote. It's much much faster than the Virtuoso Plus AND I love how it automatically shuts off after all the beans are ground. The build quality is amazing (it's very heavy, too...meaning a lot of metal). Another point is the Fellow Ode is at least 50% quieter. In a household where people get up at different times, it's very handy when the one who gets up first doesn't disturb the sleep-in folks. With the speed much quicker and the noise much less annoying, the Fellow Ode really is head and shoulders above the Baratza, though both are top quality.

[@celestema2506]

Do you notice any difference for ode grind size? I see a lot complaints that ode doesn't grind fine enough for light roast

[@brucechandler9484]

Ode is strictly a brewing grinder. It's true it does not grind fine enough for espresso. From drip to percolated to French Press to Aero Press the Ode has a setting for each but espresso lovers look elsewhere.

[@celestema2506]

I really like the look of it, and that it only supplies single dose and how quite it is. I make pour over at home a few times a week. I'm not sure not being able to grind fine enough is an actual concern for me. But it's a big purchase and I don't want to regret it

[@Yirgamalabar]

I don't really mind these functional differences. How do you think these two grinders compare when it comes to quality in the cup?

[@fratini.]

Do you really own both of them?? The Virtuoso + shuts off automatically as well, dude, when the time runs out, with the advantage that you won't need to measure the amount of coffee every single time. Which is much more convenient IMHO.

[@marcusannegarn8497]

Thanks for posting these sorts of videos! It would be cool to see how the Ode stacks up to the Baratza Vario

[@conorpoull]

Worth noting that the Virtuoso+ usually doesn't need to be calibrated for espresso out of the box, but maybe only once after a year or more of use. Also, the Virtuoso is significantly less expensive. I was also pretty surprised by the retention results, with the Virtuoso having less retention and more consistent output. Now that the single dose hopper is available for it, that pop-corning problem should be avoidable.

[@outdoorist6085]

"Now that the single dose hopper is available for it" --Thank you so much! Had no idea this was available! Just ordered one for my Virtuoso+ :)

[@chrisregas7199]

How does a single dose hopper eliminate pop-corning? Plus you can't see whether it does or not since it is not clear. Still thinking through the pros and cons.

[@WTFA54]

​@@chrisregas7199 I don't have the virtuoso specifically but i have the encore and a preciso and they all use very similar parts (same burrs between the virtuoso and preciso, same hoppers for all of them, same rings, etc. etc.) one of the benefits of baratza's products is that the internals between their grinders are all very similar and they're all made to be easily disassembled and repaired. The single dose hopper in my experience isn't SIGNIFICANTLY better at reducing popcorning since they use the same anti-popcorn shield at the bottom of the hopper, but the thinner design does mean that any beans that do bounce out of the bottom can more easily find their way back down to the burrs. Larger hoppers like their stock hopper rely on having the weight of additional beans to keep everything moving towards the burrs. If getting one of the baratza conical grinders for single dosing, I'd recommend getting a single dose hopper that comes with a bellows rather than getting the one from Baratza. With a bellows and a little water (either a small spritz from a water bottle or wetting the back of a spoon then stirring the beans), you can get very low retention (around 0.1 grams) with a Baratza conical grinder.

[@sabatheus]

As a Baratza Virtuoso owner, you read my mind with this comparison. Thank you!

[@AmbroseReed]

About to buy a grinder in this price range and these two are definitely finalists, so this is super helpful!

[@harrybalsagna6883]

What did you get?

[@AmbroseReed]

@@harrybalsagna6883 I ended up with the Virtuoso+ because I was also looking at the Breville Bambino as a relatively affordable but capable espresso machine. I've had them for close to a year now and overall really happy

[@huntdonger]

I like Fellow, I like all the features of the Ode and I like the design. But I LOVE Baratza as a company. They really stand behind their products and their environmental mission. I can't see myself ever upgrading from my Virtuoso for my non-espresso grinding needs.

[@renix3968]

Too bad they were acquired by Breville

[@apeschell]

@@renix3968 Not necessarily bad. They are allowing Baratza to continue operating as they have been, so will remain to be seen if any major changes will occur affecting things negatively.

[@ff8123]

Can Fellow do enough grinds for pots? I brew 6-8 cup pots. Autodrip. I don't like pourover.

[@icowrich]

@@renix3968 I've seen that sort of thing go both ways. Breville could leave Baratza alone and allow them to continue their culture as is, or they might not. So far, I haven't noticed a difference in support.

[@bradlindeman7417]

@@icowrich It will change, mergers are never a positive thing. It's all about money boys and girls! Quality never prevails either.

[@edlearned8173]

Pretty awesome and fair comparison between the two machines. I love the design of the Ode, but the more limited grind capabilities toward fine hold me back. I also think their capture cup needs some improvement.

[@JordanBobGeek]

This was hands down the clearest and easiest to understand review of the Ode, that left me knowing which grinder I wanted.

[@primacoffeeequipment]

Let us know when you're ready to purchase and take advantage of our holiday discounts!

[@davidm9090]

which was...?

[@donnasue2394]

I’m ready to purchase a grinder mainly for making French Press, but may also use for larger pots of drip coffee. The ODE is intriguing because of its size and quiet grind. Single dose works for me too. What you missed in this comparison is the cleaning process. How often does each need to be cleaned. How does each handle the more oily bean. Video on how to clean. Cleaning can be cumbersome especially if it has to be done frequently. How about another video comparing these issues, please?

[@stevefordham1740]

Always leary of comparing a prototype with a production machine. Need to wait on the Ode but excited about the possibilities. That said if I needed one now...its available and proven.

[@nycjake4553]

Thanks for the video. I was favorably impressed. I single dose my coffee by weight on the Virtuoso Plus. No surprise that the Ode grinds faster than the Virtuoso - 64mm burr vs 40mm very significant difference....it would have blown my mind and questioned Prima Coffee Equipment's credibility had the Virtuoso grinded coffee beans faster. I'm just your average coffee drinker (not an espresso fanboy) who grinds his beans and takes his coffee with half and half and sugar - obviously no coffee connoisseur. I am delighted with the Virtuoso Plus and I highly recommend it. The Ode has great design and seems to have exceptional grinding performance. The Virtuoso is also an excellent home brewer grinder with an outstanding reputation. I seriously doubt any coffee connoisseur would taste any difference in the taste of coffee with half and half and sugar made with either grinder. (Most likely coffee connoisseurs don't take sugar and half and half.) In my humble opinion home coffee drinkers would be completely satisfied with either of these grinders....additionally either of these coffee grinders would make equal or better cups of joe than most coffee shops/coffeehouse.

[@travisbalthasar9544]

Ahhh the only thing missing in the video was listening to the grinds one after the other. Please do another video of that 🙏

[@rickrichardson1141]

Excellent review of these two. I was a backer for the Ode from the beginning to go along with my EKG so am really looking forward taking delivery any week now

[@Cman775]

Can these grind fine enough for moka pot?

[@Nezann]

Virtuoso definitely can

[@stevefordham1740]

13 setting on the baratza

[@HylianPirate278]

@@stevefordham1740 Keep in mind that not all Baratza's grind the same. Your 13 might be a lot finer than someone else's 13. It all depends on how the grinder is calibrated, which can vary even in factory settings.

[@ff8123]

Ode can NOT.

[@JCleggy]

Well done. I really appreciate the comparison. I’m leaning towards the Ode. I like the idea of something that aims to be great at one thing and follows through with exceptional results. Also, I’m worried I might be tempted to get into home espresso if my new grinder holds the door open for it lol Been using a Smart Grinder Pro for about 4 years now. You guys think the Ode is worth the upgrade?

[@hotfishy]

I don't think Ode is for espresso though

[@JCleggy]

hotfishy it doesn’t. I think my comment was misleading. I was joking that if I get the ode which can’t do espresso, I won’t be tempted to buy an espresso machine. Anything to justify the purchase

[@primacoffeeequipment]

We are always fans of sticking to equipment that you are comfortable with and has been providing consistent results. But, if you are in the market for a new brew grinder, we have been really impressed with the capabilities of the Ode!

[@thatoneguy3d]

Tap the top of the Virtuoso + after you're done grinding and you won't have random grinds falling out when removing the bin. Love my Baratza.

[@travisbalthasar9544]

Just the review I’ve been waiting for thank you! Great job 👍

[@abmr999]

I wish you had tested the noise between them

[@primacoffeeequipment]

We will make sure we test the sound comparisons for our future videos!

[@jicalzad]

I read reviews that the Ode tends to get messy? This true? If so, does it negate the positives?

[@primacoffeeequipment]

The first generation Ode did have some issues with messiness, but this has been completely resolved in the generation 2 Ode, which is now available!

[@gregoryreffner2939]

Anyone else surprised with the grind retention results? The Ode seems to be marketed to single dosing which relies on the same input and output... and yet varied by .5 grams on a 20g dose. Prima CE, what do you think about this somewhat surprising result?

[@primacoffeeequipment]

Considering the steps Fellow took in the Ode's design to mitigate retention, we were a bit surprised. But it's no big deal in the scheme of things -- we purge every grinder with a few beans prior to every brew, and you'll quickly learn how many extra beans to add to your single doses to account for that bit of retention.

[@acmescores]

This is expected for flat burrs. The coffee itself does more of the pushing action in flat burrs whereas in conical burrs gravity has a greater role (in comparison).

[@VincentGalbo]

Great video. Ode definitely has the features I’d look for in a grinder, and the cup clarity you mention seals the deal. Virtuoso has a lot of nice features and versatility, but it’s versatility I don’t necessarily care for.

[@dwikafebrianto3016]

If you love making Cold Brew, then Virtuoso's versatility will definitely win. However almost all of Fellow's products are really pretty and good quality

[@MarkMphonoman]

Doesn’t the Virtuoso plus come ready for Espresso?

[@primacoffeeequipment]

The Virtuoso+ does not perfrom very well for espresso.

[@dtonpbac]

If there isn't significant difference between the two in terms of taste and grind quality, I assume Ode is no match for Vario since there is a huge difference between Virtuoso+ and Vario.

[@portnaluinge]

As a Vario owner, that’s a comparison I’d love to see.

[@flipy_]

I would hope the Vario is better than the Ode seeing as it is almost double the price

[@portnaluinge]

flipy118 But better how? Is a Merc G Wagon better than an Alpine A110 because it’s double the price? Depends on your needs, right? Same here - if you don’t need the flexibility of the Vario and only want the model that produces the most consistent grind for brewing, then the larger burrs of the Ode might well beat the Vario. I wouldn’t assume that the Vario will be qualitively better just because it costs more, although it’s certainly more flexible. That’s why I feel a direct comparison would be so interesting.

[@225byakuya]

@@portnaluinge maybe he bought a Vario himself and doesn't want to get buyer's remorse. He wasn't against a direct comparison either.

[@joeladamshapiro]

Great video - thanks for the objective and level-headed analysis

[@kacpercywinski2092]

What about Wilfa Uniform as an alternative?

[@primacoffeeequipment]

Not available here in the US, unfortunately. We have never tested one.

[@tc-su4gw]

The reason the ode cant go finer grind is because of engineered teeth that space it. However they are talking about changing it to go flat against the burrs and offering the upgraded burr on kickstarted for early buyers at a discounted rate. You can buy a different burr that fits the ode and will work. But im waiting to see if they come out with one on their own. I just got my ode and i love it. But i would love it more if it could pull espresso.

[@Shelmerdine745]

Noise?

[@pythonian123]

Interesting that the reviewer ignored the “Pulse” setting on the Virtuoso+. My current grinder (Breville Smart Grinder Pro 800XL) died recently, hence the interest in reviews such as this one. One of the things that I liked about the Breville was the ability to pulse the grinding. I know that the Ode basically requires you to measure beforehand but the pulse combined with the bin allows for a greater flexibility when needed.

[@chrisregas7199]

What advantage does the pulse grind provide?

[@pythonian123]

@@chrisregas7199 It allows me to grind very small amounts as needed. Consider the following two scenarios, things that happen often enough in my household: Imagine that I want to brew just a bit more coffee than normal, say an extra cup or even half cup because someone wants just a bit more that morning. Perhaps I’m trying out a different coffee bean / roast and I’m experimenting with getting the right amount for the desired strength of the brew. In either of those cases, I just need to put the Virtuoso into “pulse” mode and I can grind coffee in 0.1 second increments.

[@chrisregas5045]

@@pythonian123 thank you! Do you typically grind with the timer?

[@pythonian123]

@@chrisregas5045 Yes. I never really dose and and that is probably the whole point of the convenience of “on demand” grinders with storage hoppers. Oh sure, the units used by the grinders might vary: some will use time, while others use “cups” or similar. In the end, you figure out the amount you need at the grind level you need for your particular brewing method. It’s nice to know that I can be half awake, hit the button and always get a great cup of coffee. Mmmmm, morning coffee.

[@Star_Gazing_Coffee_Lover]

Just got the Virtuoso + and only problem i have is having to tap the top a few times to get all the grounds to fall in the bin. Saying that, I am thinking of sending it back and getting the Ode.

[@icowrich]

Get the single dose hopper (it's only $24) and then use it as a bellows. kzbin.info/www/bejne/p4ukg5xortagf6M

[@bowieknife]

Would love to see a comparison video of the Ode vs Wilfa Uniform as well if possible.... Thanks!

[@LuckyDragon289]

Pretty sure Wilfa grinders are only sold in Europe, and they don't have any distributors in NA. Wouldn't make sense for Prima to compare against a product they don't carry

[@primacoffeeequipment]

We'd love to do that, too! Unfortunately the Uniform is not available in 110V 60hz :/

[@bowieknife]

@@LuckyDragon289 I didn't know that it was only sold in the EU. Thanks for the info.

[@bowieknife]

@@primacoffeeequipment I see. Thanks a lot for your comparison video anyhow!

[@MarkMphonoman]

Great review. Thank you.

[@leesteely8875]

I thought the ode grounds bin is grounded. Did not hear that mentioned in the review and should really help dust from escaping.

[@RedSwoo]

Interesting video as I considered both these machines when ordering recently. I was looking for a machine that can go course enough for a french press which ruled out some other more expencive machines. I like the fact that the Virtuoso can grind finer for an aeropress or moka. I have no plans for espresso, however I like that the Virtuoso can grind finer so that I can experiment with moka and aeropress with different grinds. It is more versatile in that view. The Virtuoso + can grind twice the speed of the Encore which for me was important otherwise I would also consider that machine to save money. One thing not mentioned in this review, is that, if you use the Virtuoso+ in manual mode. It will show you how many seconds you have grinded for, so that if you remember the time, next time you have the option to use the timer instead. which is good if you will be using frequently. So in summary. I was attracted to the Ode with the large flat burrs, but in the end, the versatility and current availability of the Virtuoso+ won me over.

[@iamjerney]

RedSwoo sounds like you need a niche zero

[@RedSwoo]

@@iamjerney thanks Jerney. I did consider the niche zero as it is very well reviewed with low retention and is also very versatile. However with a 1 month delay on shipping the niche combined with it costing twice the price of the virtuoso, pushed me towards the virtuoso. Your right that the niche is a serious contender.

[@iamjerney]

It is. I love mine

[@jiffjiffernson7292]

a Virtuoso + is a elemental espressso grinder unworthy or the investment or your time in a quality machine, likewise I am astounded yet was not surprised that taste would into anyone's consideration. I like me some inferior coffee.

[@nickcoleman]

Baratza Virtuoso+ hands down. Fellow has horrible customer service -- no customer support phone number and they don't respond to email requests for help (even through their website). I have a Fellow Stagg SKG kettle that is still under warranty and started having issues after 6 months and I can't get help from them. My current grinder is starting to have issues and feature-wise the Ode would be a perfect fit (I use an aeropress). But, I don't want another $300 door stop if it breaks (that would join my $150 fellow stagg skg kettle). I'll replace it with the Baratza -- all the reviews say their service is exceptional. Follow-up: Fellow did finally get back to me and replaced the Stagg kettle ... but it took a lot of pestering. But, with the lack of customer support phone number and long delay in responding to customer support requests, I still can't justify buying the Ode.

[@bluemystic7501]

I'd hop on the Ode but I like an occasional moka pot at home and sadly it won't go fine enough.

[@lexlarkin]

Very, very well done video. Thanks!

[@danakinscheuer]

This grinder handles more beans then other grinders I have used. Easy to clean

[@MrBobbyArcher]

Feels premature to be calling the Fellow Ode one of the very best electronic home grinders on the market - worth waiting to see if any issues crop up in usage before giving it that credit IMO

[@themikelee]

"We've got something pretty fun planned for you," he says without even a smile.

[@klaskristian1]

I have a Virtuoso. A great grinder, but if i have to choose between those 2 i defenatly would pick the Ode!

[@orrinbelcher6593]

Nice video fun and informative thank you

[@Acontinouslean]

The flat burr vario would have been a better comparison

[@finspin4984]

Price would have been a smart criteria to consider.

[@lakorai2]

Baratza's team is really responsive now, but since the owners cashed out to Brevelle it is going to go down the toilet. Brevelle is terrible quality, they don't sell parts to consumers and they have zero accountability for mistakes they make. When you see 25% 1 star reviews on their grinders and expresso machines on Amazon then you know they have a problem.

[@sidfry2880]

love the new intro (:

[@primacoffeeequipment]

Thanks!

[@fedormurashov]

Can you grind espresso on Ode grinder?

[@ljennn]

No.

[@dtonpbac]

Watch the video first before leaving the comment like this duh

[@fedormurashov]

fb_dtonpb I will try, thanks!

[@RobsDunne]

Nope

[@RealLockheedMartin]

Did he say "Hey y'all" or "Hey all"

[@D4PPZ456]

Honestly, if you want good coffee and you dont want to wait until you can save up for a quality machine grinder, you'll get more for your money with a hand grinder. If you want a machine grinder, save up and get something you'll never need to upgrade from like a Niche Zero.

[@VincentGalbo]

Duhizy I recently sold a Niche Zero. I felt my Comandante was out performing it for filter and french press brews, and the small convince it added over hand grinding wasn’t worth the price tag for me. Just throwing my opinion in, as I saw a lot of comments like yours that lead me to believe the Niche Zero was the end-all-be-all grinder.

[@D4PPZ456]

@@VincentGalbo I agree with you that the hand grinders likely make a superior cup, but if you have any intention of having espresso regularly, grinding for espresso with a hand grinder is tough work. I personally use a 1zpresso for everything other than espresso for that reason. The Niche is going to get you 95 percent of the way towards a high-end hand grinder, which is why it's generally seen as a better purchase for espresso lovers.

[@huntdonger]

@@D4PPZ456 Interesting! I only use my 1zpresso for espresso and a Virtuoso for everything else. I find the 1zpresso JX Pro creates more fines in the coarser settings.

[@D4PPZ456]

@@huntdonger The highest setting I've used on the JX Pro is 40 for french press and I find it hard to believe grinds could be more consistent, but if you're grinding coarse than that I can't compare.

[@harijaja]

@@VincentGalbo ​ @Jeffrey Cleghorn Grinding for Espressos on a manual grinder is a pain, I know because I have the Helor and Im gonna buy a Niche for the reason that. 1-dialing in can get tiresome, specially on a 18 gram basket. 2-The overall experience, especially if making espresso for more than 1 (both doubles, ain't no body in here for singles xD) is another painful experience. 3-going back and forward (hence having to dial in sometimes) from espresso to pour and viceversa is another pain. Yes, grinding for french press can be super easy with a manual grinder, and I don't really see any point in buying a Niche if your are going to use it for french press. Now, you want to compare The Niche with a good espresso hand grinder, there is the HG-1 which cost 1k XD

[@everythingsawesome]

first 11 minutes could've been cut. why not cut to the chase. we're here for essential information, not throat-clearing preambles for 11 minutes

[@vacuumlover1]

The confirmation bias in this video is evident

[@devlin2427]

Either gets crushed by a cheap 100$ Chinese ghost burr grinder.

[@Adam-vx6to]

No they dont

[@harijaja]

you be raving my man.

[@dwikafebrianto3016]

Is there any video about one particular grinder? Honestly, I am interested to buy a Chinese "Ghost" Burr but also worried about its durability especially the motor part. I don't want a grinder that breaks after just 1 year of usage, let alone a couple of months