Feminist Panelists Confront Destiny On Debate Panel

[@destiny]

Panelists confront Destiny on the stealthing discourse on the Prime Cayes debate panel ft. Chaeiry, Spectre, Stabby and Katee... After the panel ends, Destiny and panelists continue the heated debate ►kzbin.info/www/bejne/gaubmamamtx6e5o Follow Prime Cayes ►www.twitch.tv/primecayes ►twitter.com/primecayes ►kzbin.info/door/5-KrE89zNr78JJIFka3QIA

[@mikepilkington2156]

My gf loves to go for late night walks. But the area we live in it's kind of dangerous. In an ideal world yes she should be able to go but iv told her not to and she's just had to accept it. She walks during the day now. Was i victim blaming telling her this? Lol

[@1jhinojosa1]

Don’t they make vagina condoms now? If you are afraid of stealthing, bring your own.

[@no009limit]

Destiny owned these sjw

[@1jhinojosa1]

Sad part is they are incapable of understanding that or realizing they are doing more harm then good

[@Why-_-So-_-Serious]

My issue is when women claim rape but do not go after the person that raped them or even protect said person by not giving a name ! I will not take you seriously if that happens because you are not taking it seriously and you deserve all the hate and the jokes because you are literally protecting a person that raped

[@ZachThom9]

”I’m not an adult, I am a League of Legends player - to be clear” - Steven Kenneth Bonell II

[@Mr.Septon]

I appreciated that moment

[@GoneAngel]

Damn. I can't believe i've been watching Destiny 2 this whole time.

[@flemaster12]

@@GoneAngel LMAO

[@novalovan]

where is the part I ?

[@meltedWax169]

​@@GoneAngelcan't wait for The Final Debate

[@fjordan2345]

when the entire panel actually agrees with everything destiny says, but still feels the need to argue for 2 hours

[@WambwneD]

It's clear some of these bozos are really busier misconstruing his argument, than actually thinking about whats been said.

[@mohammadkayed7780]

Hearing "I agree with you" then 10 minutes later hearing "you're a retard" for two straight hours, these people are an actual parody of "destiny haters", their brains turn off after he ends his statement This is worse than debating a neo nazi

[@braunana5395]

Its understandable that people are heated given how he worded his original tweets.

[@vidzorko4492]

@@braunana5395 still, they should have been smarter in this conversation, judging by the fact they are literally online advocates/commentators

[@cheesy4582]

I got excited at the title but about 10 minutes ik I realized these people aren’t the sharpest tools in the shed

[@abednegokurio9244]

"People often give advice assuming that the world is a utopia", the truest of trues.

[@Crispman_777]

@@Sue_Me_Too WTF? Why??

[@bradlife_]

@@Sue_Me_Too What if their rapist is themselves?

[@theysaidimasian9766]

@@bradlife_ rapeception

[@GKJusticar55]

Man I miss Nebraska Steve here.

[@gemkid85]

@@bradlife_ then they should do themselves, right?

[@-caspo-]

Katee’s transformation from absolutely uncharitable to good faith and then back to absolutely uncharitable was wild.

[@solopunished]

She is the craziest person I've seen online and that's saying something

[@namenome3680]

she's a permanent child....

[@rexvectum]

I couldn't even tell if she was joking or not when she was being good faith lol

[@Zocress]

It's funny how this started as "Destiny, you're wrong and you support rape" and it ended as "You might be right, but you didn't have to say it on Twitter >:(!!!"

[@frankdevo5715]

People post their life story on Twitter and then get upset when the comments aren’t 100% positive and in complete agreement.

[@Shad0wack]

@@frankdevo5715 ~50% of people

[@computerflight2145]

Telling a woman who just got raped that they are immature and shouldn't be having sex is not ok. It doesn't matter if its true. Its outrageously callous and disgusting to say. Thats not "you didn't have to say it on twitter" its "You attacked someone for being a rape victim in the name of being technically correct" that is destiny being a giant piece of shit. how can you not see that.

[@defer114]

@@computerflight2145 If a woman isn't capable of speaking up if she sees a guy take a condom off, especially on 3 different occasions, then maybe she shouldn't be engaging in those activities with people she doesn't trust. This isn't controversial its what every woman should realize before she engages in sex. This isn't shaming a rape victim and calling them immature, just stop it. If a girl tries to stick her finger up my ass you best believe I'm going to tell her to stop. If I said afterward that I wasn't able to say anything and that I was a victim of rape that doesn't absolve me of all responsibility to say anything.

[@mmarrrtn]

@@computerflight2145 it might be dickish, but posting something publicly exposes that message for a lot of other people to see, and this affects both debate, and potentially how people behave in their own lives. Regardless of stance on this topic, I don't think you can claim that public space and prevent anyone else from pitching in. If someone else then (destiny in this case) disagrees, especially if they consider the original message to be harmful (as destiny states he does) why wouldn't they be allowed to push back against this sentiment? Imagine a man posts rape-y/rape positive things on twitter, and you're not allowed to argue with him because in some X situation he would be considered a victim.

[@boopsnoot3145]

Women: "NO MEANS NO!" Destiny: "You're right. You should say no or avoid casual sexual encounters until you're comfortable saying no." Women: "Wow Destiny, are you really gonna sit there and suggest that women say no?"

[@aveave7569]

😭😭 not women just these 2 idiots and that one man

[@squipy]

The main argument they gave is that women ALREADY know to say no, but they're socialized to please or are have experienced too much trauma to do what they *already know*. What they don't understand is that they can work against socialization and their former trauma to have empowering discourse to women, instead of focusing entirely on the [at fault] men. The defensive driving example is spot on. I am flabbergasted at the mental gymnastics is being used to avoid the points of discussion. Katee has the conversational comprehension of a minor or is so blinded by her position that she is obtusely bad faith. I fear for Stabby's child, and Spectre is absolutely insufferable and living in his own world. It's a shame these are the people that was scraped up to have the opposing conversation.

[@ExeErdna]

I had people block me years ago over this very argument. That I am supposed to risk my life because they refused to take measure to protect themselves. They we're like "Oh if you see somebody clearly drunk walking away with somebody you're supposed to do something about it" I was like "What if they know each other then I look like an asshole." They came back like "Why are you so rapey?" Me being like "How in the fuck am I rapey for minding my own business?" Like squipy said some or so damn socialized or traumized to be legit stupid about expectations of safety. I'm supposed to be protect everybody and they're able to be reckless. It isn't fair if you have agency I do too. They hated me stating that shit. They saw me asserting my own boundaries as being rapey and that word was used a bullying tactic to get me to do what they wanted. When really my whole logic is "if you're gonna get blackout drunk in public, I'm not gonna deal with you"

[@Shad0wack]

Expecting women to take responsibility is WRONG and MYSOGINY

[@crav3s]

@@squipy 10000000000000% spot on

[@lancecereal3673]

As fathers talking to their daughters, telling your daughter (or any woman you care about) to take precautions when going out to protect one's self from rape and the like DOES NOT mean blaming the victim or mean the assaulter is not responsible for their actions. Preparing your loved ones, women specifically in this discussion, with the necessary tools to protect themselves is the responsible action.

[@realeques]

they are way too emotionally charged to understand that because they brains keep shutting down everytime destiny makes ANY point

[@clivedoe9674]

There's a reason dad's used to show off their gun collection to new boyfriends coming to the house. And it wasn't to "control" their daughter. If they wanted to do that, they would attempt prevent dating altogether. It was to let that young man know he was in mortal danger if he took abused his daughter. That's how you teach a rapist not to rape. Threaten his life.

[@aidanhearn4210]

@Clive Doe also helps to teach children consent as a hard limit early in life. Cut the raping tendencies off at the knees.

[@bash555]

@@aidanhearn4210 you teach both - but teaching defense is crucial, because you can’t control other people outside your purview.

[@DDogg43777]

@@clivedoe9674 That isn’t going to solve the problem. You’ve effectively just circled back to, “rape is really bad. If you rape, you really bad.” Telling guys not to rape by threatening them won’t solve the problem. It’s not doing it now with the uber feminists yelling it, and it won’t solve it in the future.

[@marksmanmerc1]

What the fuck are they even arguing about? They'll all agree then suddenly someone just starts the argument over again.

[@UnseenOct]

Their feelings. People decided somewhere along the line that debates need to be around how you feel and not what the truth is

[@RanEncounter]

They feel like Destiny has no understanding of the topic so they have to argue against him to virtue signal people they are not on his side.

[@Rossstewart88]

Spectre - unintelligible white Knight Katsee- ears closed and just wants to rant Chaerly- not speaking enough Other one - thinks personal anecdotes is worldwide Destiny - I WILL DIE ON THIS HILL PrimeCayes- "I wish I had become a doctor or astronaut or something"

[@winsonxie3179]

I will say I think Katsee somehow became enlightened mid-conversation, and made a very good representation of what destiny said.

[@suchawolfy]

@@winsonxie3179 she started listening. I think 2nd half katee is spot on

[@nacholpm5471]

Not shouting = Not speaking enough lmao

[@blackmage665]

@@bluebarrymore5442 What's that? never heard that term before

[@MrMetricSystem]

@@nonesimilar at one point its like her psychoses goes away for a minute and she basically rearticulates Ds points, then the illness sets back in as soon as D opens his mouth and she starts right back up, it happens again with her face and spectre not sure if she is a grifter or so dumb she didn't know. i wish prime simp didn't have her on all the time i find her voice irritating.

[@lemonheadkw2493]

It’s extremely hilarious how destiny walks them through the entire argument, and they give no resistance. They basically concede the exact argument destiny makes. And then 10 minutes later they are back to opposing everything he says, when they already admitted to every scenario proving him right.

[@victormarinfelip1645]

Because he is technically correct, but that's not why they were debating him. When you have a platform, a hige one, you cannot start giving personal advice about stuff you don't know shit about. What you can do is talk about systemic solutions to problems (policy etc). Men's toxic mental health produce rape (a friend of mine did it because he feels that women, in general, owe him sex and attention, as an example). We should have better education and resources to address that (aka a systemic solution). Instead, destiny choosed to talk about an individual case that doesn't know about, giving a "one size fits all" prescription for personal responsability (don't have sex if X) not knowing shit about the specifics (starting with 'not having sex' is usually something heavily penalized in society in some groups). You cannot generalize personal responsability arguments therefore you should not prescribe them in the way destiny did. Big platforms should keep to systemic solutions. That's why they were debating destiny. Of course the guy with all the debate experience won, technically at least, but nothing changed to the better in the world, quite the opposite, now hundreths of thousands of people think things like rape is often not a big deal because it is not the stereotypical alleway assault. Once again feminst concerns were painted as irrational and hysterical while being absolutely right. Holy shit thank you destiny for nothing.

[@lemonheadkw2493]

@@victormarinfelip1645 you have a lot of trouble staying consistent in your own message. You keep saying he choose to talk about an individual case, that he doesn’t know about, but he gave a general prescription. Well it doesn’t matter if the one case he was responding to was actually different then he thought, because he is giving a generalized statement. For example if this girl was terrified this guy was gonna get violent, then desinys statements simple don’t apply. But all the evidence suggests he was probably right. Being “technically right” is important. If everyone encouraged women to speak up more, there would be less rape, and there is NO evidence that violence would increase. If you saw destiny’s other content studies were brought in that support him

[@lemonheadkw2493]

@@victormarinfelip1645 and I simply don’t believe you that destiny’s advice is going to change MENS opinions on the okayness of rape. That’s just total bullshit

[@victormarinfelip1645]

@@lemonheadkw2493 Perhaps I did not explain myself properly. Let me try again: Destiny decided to give a really bad advice in a very mean way with language filled with contempt. It is a very bad advice because telling people to evade sex will bring many, many other mental problems, therefore it must be used ONLY as a last resource. To prescribe something like that you'd need to really know the case you're talking about, and really check that there is not other way of dealing with it, that there is really no way around telling someone to stop having sex, because that will have huge effects on the person. However destiny just jumped from the tweets to a "oh, so there is literally no other way aroud, this person has some mental impediment to say 'stop' during sex and it wont ever happen, so let's prescribe no more sex", which is a crazy hypotetical. There are a million degrees there and he just jumped to the last, most extreme one, from a couple of tweets. He is technically correct that in the hypotetical scenario the right prescription is "no sex" (which again wil bring MANY OTHER MENTAL PROBLEMS so you wan't to avoid giving that prescription as much aas possible) without knowing shit about the issue. And he did it in the most mean, mocking way holy shit. How is that reasonable? And of course it triggers, for good reason, some women that go on to debate him. Then him, using his debate skills, make it so the debate is about "in my crazy hypotetical scenario, what is the right prescription?", they fell to this trap because they're not as good as him, and they have to concede, but the debate was never about that in the first place, or it should not be. The debate should be about how now, many destiny fans, will be dismissive and won't pay attention overall to women having trouble dealing with these kind of guys, I'd bet that some are saying that to their friends already: "just don't have sex", after some bad experience where she could, technically, have done more to evade the bad experience. You know I'm right, people,. fanboys of all these online personalities, are like that, some of them at least. Destiny needs to be way more responsable. What good has come from this, again? nothing, just that he validated some shitty behavior to his fans. Also, if you think about it: Destiny, a very smart guy, gives unwanted "advice" in the most aggressive mean way that, I'm sure, he knows will trigger the shit out of others. Destiny, a very smart guy, accepts to debate these others, and makes sure that the convo is about the stupid hypotetical. Destiny, a very smart guy, wins a debate that the other side did not want to even have (they wanted to talk about something else but you know, debate tactics). Destiny, a very smart guy, now has a video with 200k views where he crushes some feminists. IDK man, put 2+2 together, I'd say that he is doing it on purpose, knowing that his advice is shit, being mean and aggressive on purpose to get a reaction, doing shitty debate tactics on purpose, etc, just for views, money, whatever he gets... Really, what good has come from this? Just destiny fans with bad opinions validated like "not all rape is that bad" and that's it. By the way: "@UCRxO3SVT1dknr7p8mLbcZSw and I simply don’t believe you that destiny’s advice is going to change MENS opinions on the okayness of rape. That’s just total bullshit" Destiny can change anyone's mind about that issue and any other. He is a political commentator. He is an educator. He tells stories, he speaks facts, he composes arguments, makes talking points, teaches why some point is good, someo other is bad, how arguments work, which ones are good and bad and why, etc. OF COURSE HE CAN CHANGE PEOPLE'S MIND, people watch him to learn about stuff, to understand why X is better than Y, etc. His entire point is to convince people about stuff. And he does it, very well. He is very responsable of what his community believes to a good degree. You'd have to be blind not to see it.

[@lemonheadkw2493]

@@victormarinfelip1645 “perhaps I didn’t explain myself well”, yes now you have explained yourself much better. Still incredibly wrong, but better. You didn’t listen to destiny’s argument, and you didn’t even read my entire comment. It’s incredible. Destiny’s prescription was not “no sex ever”. It was PAUSE on having CASUAL sex until you have the maturity to do so responsibly. It has ALWAYS been his argument. You didn’t even understand a huge fundamental aspect of it. My point was not that destiny doesn’t convince people of things. The point is he is not increasing mens likelihood of raping women by saying women should try to reduce their chances of being raped. That’s an insane point for you to argue. I’m not going to respond to anything else you say, just based of the fact that you are missing huge gaps of the argument. You’re so far off you’re not even having the same conversation I am.

[@RyanMonkeyFace]

Maybe I'm just getting old but "If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen" has just always been solid advice for a huge majority of situations.

[@ashleyx3822]

Yeah thats essentially what the original tweet sead too. Then this happened lol

[@shockwavesyndrome6433]

Didn’t realize you were a RaPE APoLogISt

[@akiltircuit7515]

Careful now, you’ll be accused of having dangerous male energy.

[@DDogg43777]

The issue is that Destiny’s tweet comes off as if he is putting blame on the woman. I can imagine that people who actually believe it is the woman’s fault would like Destiny’s tweet. The issue stays an issue, because even though Destiny explained the misconception, a lot of these people still think he’s “blaming” the woman.

[@bestdjaf7499]

@@DDogg43777 They think that Destiny is "protecting" men. From American Psychological Association: *"Women like women more than men like men"* "Women are nearly *five times* more likely to show an automatic preference for their own gender than men are to show such favoritism for their own gender, according to a study in the October issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology (Vol. 87, No. 4)." ... "Moreover, men and women tended to show high implicit self-esteem and high gender identity; *however, men showed low pro-male gender attitudes, according to the study.* *"A clear pattern shown in all four studies is that men do not like themselves automatically as much as women like themselves,"* Rudman says. "This contradicts a lot of theoretical thinking about implicit attitudes regarding status differences."

[@Jalmerk]

”If guys are gonna rape, shouldn’t we tell them not to do that?” Yeah it’s almost like it should be a crime or something

[@WhiteJeezus]

Hot take, I personally think it should be illegal

[@TheFatalcrest]

😂 man wait until they figure out they go to prison. And even in jail they are low on the totem pole

[@sakarias00]

Why is it so hard for people to realize that no matter who's at fault, you're still responsible for your own safety. Giving advice to keep someone safe does NOT shift any sort of blame

[@yo-xe1ps]

Lemme add to that: Why is it so hard for people to just be responsible for THEIR OWN SAFETY since A FUCKING RAPIST IS NOT GONNA CARE ABOUT BOUNDARIES OR CONSCIENCE, do these people actually think the CRIMINALS WOULD CARE ABOUT PEOPLE SCREAMING "STOP RAPE"???

[@ChuckFinelyForever]

People don’t like taking responsibility

[@Less479]

It's not necessarily that people don't like taking responsibility. It's more so that if you tell a victim of assault that they were responsible for their own safety then it might be translated as if it was their fault that they were assaulted and therefore they deserved it. It is important to make the distinction that while you can make decisions that improve your chances of keeping yourself safe, it's never your fault that someone else decided to hurt you.

[@arbe3275]

I think their main point was the utility of that advice directly after the fact, which I agree with. Seems obvious. You can be technically correct, and simultaneously an insensitive, unhelpful peanut gallery member. Destiny spent the first 20 mins trying to hide behind semantics while disregarding the point that victims have been victimized. He's literally shifting blame by stating the logic at such an oversimplified level for a super complicated thing that he's obviously never experienced. Some abusers can make respecting boundaries really complicated. And his whole first attempt at a point was trying to incorrectly focus on casual sex, when the actual facts are most of these situations occur with someone you know and trust. He finally gave in and engaged in that context, but had to keep in pretty bad faith.

[@wiredvibe1678]

Protect all women

[@juice17776]

While katee was the most aggressive person towards Destiny’s take. I feel like she’s the only one of the three who ended up having an actual conversation with destiny about this. Stabby and Spectre were just moral grandstanding.

[@flemaster12]

What's moral grandstanding?

[@mellvins0059]

@@flemaster12 “you might be ok with sexual assault and rape but I’m not”

[@coolroxas]

@@flemaster12 imo its stating a stance that something is right or wrong without backing up the statement sometimes for political points or some other gain. Usually people moral grandstanding also don't engage with an argument but restate the stance and why they think it's wrong instead responding to a point.

[@MS-pd7fc]

Katee was aggressive until she was actually asked to give her own views on what advice she would give a woman in the situation then she was stumbling and bumbling lol

[@zeno4538]

It sounded like katee actually started to understand what destiny was saying at some point.

[@nws6146]

It’s less about “learning how to establish boundaries during sexual activities” and more about “only choosing to engage in sexual activities with individuals who you’d feel comfortable establishing boundaries with.”

[@Maus1able]

This

[@JesusChristsDick]

This

[@yermil890]

I dont understand why a lot of women go out and have sex with people they dont feel comfortable having sex with. Like why would you ever do that?

[@Namasknight]

@@yermil890 Because of the advice of these women and ginger knight. No one is also introspective enough to find flaws in their actions while being bombarded with "queen you were perfect it was all his fault". While yes moments after the event its bad to focus on her mistakes. After she recovers enough emotionally nudge her towards not engaging in a situation she's not ready for.

[@majdjinn5042]

...this isn't something you can stop. Some people are assholes.

[@AdrianSimmonsJr.]

There’s no way it’s this hard to distinguish “fault” from “accountability”. No one is saying it’s okay to rape people, no one is saying it’s the womens fault if they get raped. Telling someone they should be more assertive with their boundaries because that decreases the probability of them being stealthed isn’t victim blaming either. People just love being offended and playing the victim so much that that even asking someone to take responsibility in what they could’ve or could do in the future to prevent it from happening again or refrain from the situation as a whole until you feel comfortable using a preventive measure is seen as “victim blaming”. Apply that logic to ANY other situation and you’d be looked at as an idiot

[@Siroitin]

How boundaryless people can create boundaries?

[@AdrianSimmonsJr.]

@@Siroitin Adults should be smart enough and responsible enough to set their own boundaries. There’s no excuse, if you can’t honor or set your own boundaries then you probably shouldn’t be having casual sex

[@Siroitin]

@@AdrianSimmonsJr. Yes, as we know, there is irresponsible people. No one is denying that. So should we help them?

[@AdrianSimmonsJr.]

@@Siroitin if they want help then yes. There’s clearly people who try to constantly play the ultimate victim in every possible situation tho and won’t want the help cause it’s way easier to put 100% of the blame on the other party.

[@Siroitin]

​@@AdrianSimmonsJr. Do you think that the help is of high quality and easily accessible?

[@fedea82]

35:22 Katee: "If my friend wouldn't be able to assert boundaries when stealthing occurs because of trauma triggers, but she still wants to have casual sex, then I would tell her that I hope no one would ever do that to her". That should end the debate right there, she took the absolute worst position possible just to disagree with Destiny. My head almost exploded with so much cringe. #KateeFriendOfTheYear

[@valipunctro]

"Debate bro tactics" at their best.by which I mean leading ppl to the absurd conclusion of their views.

[@Le_Trouvere]

Yep, and nobody else called that out. Insane.

[@nullpha]

@@valipunctro or how absurd their views are when they actually put into practice 🤔

[@sargeteg5927]

It's sad seeing this kind of thinking because it's so dangerous. I hope no one acts like this in real life. This logic is basically being ok with sending out women to get raped again and again because the actual responsible conversation about it doesn't give you enough virtual likes.

[@berserker8884]

@@sargeteg5927 im glad that at least Destiny pushed back HARD. Insanity.

[@maplenutbutter4336]

Spectre is an interesting addition to this panel the way he derails the conversation with odd unrelated arguments

[@kasperz123]

*If i talk slow enough ill sound smart*

[@BruceCruce]

his ability to not understand anything at all is the absolute best

[@magicmerls291]

Also he makes very weir hand movements. If he just concentrated on one thing he might be able to understand what destiny or he himself was saying.

[@chromegnats]

He seemed genuinely lost more than a few times during this.

[@Seaneey]

I was wondering what his purpose was on this panel other then misunderstanding & saying random things

[@nilsen93]

Another successfull Prime-panel where Prime himself did not open his fucking mouth to give his takes!? Nice, he is on a roll.

[@jsgdk]

Prime actually does good work.

[@uncurlingfaena]

A brilliant, succinct statement 47:59. - "You're not supposed to have trauma triggers your entire life. Trauma responses are by definition irrational. Being a victim is supposed to be a step along the way to recovery, but we've made being a victim the final destination."

[@crowlsyong]

ya great solid quote thx for the timestamp

[@SaltyReverend]

This is literally the only subject that you can't give people advice to protect themselves with. Imagine any other subject where you would be considered a bad person for telling someone to protect themselves as much as they can lol.

[@williamthebonquerer9181]

Get burgaled a lot in my post office often get told to just get a shotgun

[@Namasknight]

@@williamthebonquerer9181 You poor victim. How dare those nuckle dragging 2nd amendment lunatics shift blame onto you.

[@neverbackdown1918]

Yeah, it’s so weird. To protect your home, you can lock your doors, install a security system (if you have the money), and buy a gun (if you have the money). If you’re walking alone at night, don’t. If you have to, be aware of your surroundings, maybe have a weapon, or maybe livestream the walk. Lock your car doors and don’t leave your windows down. But rape? Nope, just say “teach men not to rape” like it’s a damn spell that prevents rape.

[@jacobunruh9045]

The problem is the rhetoric. Destiny is putting the blame on women who get raped and effectively arguing that it is their fault

[@totom.8095]

@@jacobunruh9045 this is absolutely not what's happening

[@dbz287]

A better example would be a guy tweeting “ I had sex with a woman and she poked holes in the condom thinking I didn’t notice, I just kept going because it was awkward to say something. This has happened three times, women stop doing this” Obvious advice would be to say something during sex, regardless if the overwhelming feedback was positive or negative on Twitter.

[@HDitzzDH]

They would blame the guy lmao

[@orangetaho4u207]

I made sure they all had more money than me, so it's Destiny approved. 😜

[@Blackmachismoo]

Facts

[@thepubquiz3198]

I'm honestly not sure if the three at the bottom, are capable of living on their own, and cooking food for themselves, or are able to drive a car etc. This conversation, would have been so much more interesting, and constructive, if the people on the opposing side, were able to even put a lasagne in the oven without burning it, or setting the house on fire.

[@aguspuig6615]

i get what you mean, and im mostly on destinys side on the debate, but to be fair a man can always stop having sex, he only needs the basic adult level of confidence to say no even if its awkward, a woman is always running the risk that the man fucking her gets violent or just forces himself on her, i agree that most guys will stop the moment the girl says anything but you have to admit the situation is diferent when we invert the genders, its one of the few cases were theres actual biological diference that explains why people see and treat it diferently

[@lockjaw563]

"Being a victim is supposed to be a step towards recovery. We have made being a victim the final destination on social media." Seriously. Riveting quote. I had to hear it multiple times.

[@lavellelee5734]

Damn

[@cngotham4111]

I mean yea to the point that even non victims play victim because it seems like the ult trump card.

[@ChuckFinelyForever]

That quote kind of hit me hard

[@diedforurwins]

Time stamp

[@BlackDiamond2718]

Being a victim should not empower you. It should be something you want to avoid or to recover from.

[@supreme84x]

A friend of mine was stealthed during a one-night stand. She told him to put on another or they would stop. He put it back on. She laughed it off and they continued. Then he did it again. Having it done after it was expressly addressed pissed her off and she ended the encounter. What the guy did was wrong. What she did was the right thing to do. If she wasn't able to tell him to put on another or wasn't able to say "no" or "stop", than she shouldnt be having one-night stands. Doesn't change the fact that what the guy did was wrong.

[@JeanPaulBlarte]

...... or worse

[@GreenPeteTV]

The most frustrating thing about these conversations is that half-way in, people start repeating Destiny's point as if they are their own, but if destiny points out that's what he's talking about, everyone just pretends that his point was different all along until now.

[@SkerikIsBae]

"WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO EVALUATE THE EMOTIONAL MATURITY OF WOMEN" -katee, an emotionally immature woman

[@SkerikIsBae]

@Lydia hmmm, I sincerely hope you are not implying that if I do identify as a man, therefore I am incapable of noticing genderless behaviors which indicate immaturity - because that would be really pathetic, not to mention stupid

[@harryb12993]

@@SkerikIsBae come on dude, give them a chance. They can’t even reply to that.

[@Mafia2637]

@@harryb12993 fuck that, bury them.

[@alakazamhippity3192]

@@SkerikIsBae holy shit you killed them dude

[@curedale1438]

I think the issue with this conversation is that so many women have been victims of rape/sexual assault. For obvious reasons, a lot of women are extremely invested in the argument and it can be a really difficult conversation to have because of that. Its no fault of a rape victim to be emotionally invested in it, but I don't really know the way to have a productive talk about this when even a take like Destiny's, which really isn't that extreme, causes this much debate. The answer definitely isn't for only non rape victims to talk about it, thats absurd, but its definitely really complicated. I don't know if its fair to just call her an emotionally immature woman

[@chocolatMouse]

Thank god for chaeiry with her down to earth takes.

[@moonlightrouge3956]

I think she's defending her check BINGXILING

[@jaydezifour988]

A lot of streamers claim they touch grass, but Chaeiry is the only one I actually believe

[@johneaston8314]

I think her take towards the end was a losing position. Or maybe just her articulation of her position.

[@JM-mh1pp]

@@deigovideos1031 You have to admit, she has a very nice...takes.

[@jaydezifour988]

@@johneaston8314 I agree... Bit of a stumble there... Happens to the best of us...

[@WMarquice]

The Mental gymnastics by Katee when Destiny asked her what she would advise her friend who couldn't express and control her boundaries was INSANE. There is legit no other way to describe that, just be forward I wouldn't want her to be my friend If I were female with concerns.

[@zippyzapppyboi8482]

As a guy who's been in abusive relationships, What Destiny and Chaerly said about dating patterns with abusive partners rings true to me. I had to take a step back and recognise that I was shit at setting boundaries and this attracted certain types of women to me, like flies to shit. The women I dated were nasty people, but I was doing myself a disservice by placing my dating pattern on them. I was a weaker man, I had no self-confidence, no boundaries, I was too agreeable. I am still working on it.

[@Domcreator]

Good luck bro just don’t get too red pill and cause more issues

[@zippyzapppyboi8482]

@@Domcreator Cheers my dude, I'm just going to focus on me (I'm hitting the gym, doing runs, and focusing on work). Edit: I also don't blame women as a collective, just my lack of confidence attracting the wrong types of women.

[@ceomusic7]

@@zippyzapppyboi8482 just keep zappin

[@curtisgurnee9991]

Relate a lot to this, was far too agreeable, had to get broken all the way down to build myself up with some solid ground and boundaries

[@darrene.vonbraun4421]

Same. It's an ongoing effort. Not something we can stop giving mind to. We're allowed to be happy. And if reasonable boundaries make people feel imposed upon then they didn't respect us anyway. Stay up.

[@matsab7930]

I don’t know what my ultimate opinion is on this discussion, but Jesus Christ watching people be literally incapable of engaging with the discussion at all is extremely frustrating. Regardless of how you feel, you ought to be able to rationalise your prescriptions during a discussion.

[@chronographer]

Destiny: If *P* then *Q* These idiots: are you saying we should all *Q* always. Destiny: no. what would you tell someone who said P. Idiots: probably... Q? Destiny: then you agree it's good advice. Idiots: but that's like saying all people should (hyperbolic) Q forever?!!

[@kyle8971]

@@chronographer Thanks for saving me having to watch the whole debate. We seriously need more short synopses like that. Almost wasted 3 hours listening to a bunch of idiots refuse to agree with points they agree with.

[@michaelbarker6460]

Exactly. This was one of the most frustrating Destiny debates I've seen. For me it kind of turned into a demonstration of how some people can't engage with a conversation that is emotionally charged or that they have had negative personal experience with.

[@thelongstory6395]

That's why the other video with Erudite was so much better.

[@Hartigan187]

calling this shit show a discussion is very generous

[@XxHistorikxX]

Man I just got mugged and beaten at gunpoint. That shit was so awkward

[@YoungGzBlitz]

People shouldn't mug and beat people

[@XxHistorikxX]

@@YoungGzBlitz holy fuck you solved crime

[@Winasaurus]

Man that time my grandparents were put on a train to a work camp during ww2. Kinda awkward and cringe.

[@everythingtaken3674]

@@YoungGzBlitz i wish someone had told me that beforehand..

[@Xeno389]

The way that katee crumbled once Destiny asked the straight forward question "What advice would you give to your friend"... Jesus

[@DavidLee-c7v]

Because rad fems and idiots want to blame everyone else except themselves

[@thebronzemanticore]

Destiny: Maybe women can... Entire panel: *RAPE RAPE RAPE RAPE YOU LOVE RAPISTS* Destiny: Maybe, you can take responsibility for continuing to engage with a dynamic you're not comfortable with? Entire panel: *MAYBE WE CAN CASTRATE MEN SO I AM COMFORTABLE WITH LIFE*

[@pinip_f_werty1382]

It's just "you're perfect" and blatant accountability denial, this is all the advice they give women today.

[@WhiteJeezus]

Oh so women can never go outside?

[@TheSethOlson]

@@WhiteJeezus exactly, sexism would be back but at least no rape or false rape allegations anymore so boom problem fixed and definitely won’t cause any other problems

[@ryanwood6754]

or stop casually having sex and this goes for both men and women. Your literally taking a stranger you just met home to do one of the most personal and vulnerable things you can possible do. Yet you think this is a good idea? @@WhiteJeezus

[@WhiteJeezus]

@@ryanwood6754 did you watch the video? I'm making fun of the women who were literally saying this.

[@Okamikirby]

There are no more “debates” on this channel. just destiny attempting to teach a simple concept people who do everything they can to misunderstand.

[@justice1911]

It’s because lefty virtue signaling isn’t often based on a good thought out foundation.

[@Vashthestampede967]

It's more they don't realize how stupid half this shit sounds to normal people. Destiny said something as basic as "if you can't establish sexual boundaries then you shouldn't have casual sex". Any equivalent would be like "if you can't wear a hard hat don't go to a construction site". It doesn't take a rocket science to understand basic needs for a safe interaction and it does take some participation on an individuals part.. And these aren't huge statement. They want to dig in and say they aren't wrong until he starts explaining basic logic to them.

[@platosghost6916]

The stun-lock when Destiny asks her what she would say to a friend who says she's afraid to so no if a guy tries to stealth her... She tries do hard to word her answer in a way that doesn't sound exactly like Destiny's point. Such a good example how people get so caught up in the rhetorical wins they are unable to actually reason.

[@DeineMudda313313]

It's really hard to change your mind in the moment, especially when you're emotionally connected to your arguments. I usually can't do it either and change my mind after a conversation.

[@swampsprite9]

Admitting you were wrong during a debate actually gains other's respect. It doesn't make anyone look down on you - we all know that no one is right about everything all the time.

[@SDY274]

@@DeineMudda313313 that’s something to work on then. As cringy as this always sounds to say, you need to learn to separate reason and emotion.

[@whitejosh444]

Lol definitely stuttering there

[@Winasaurus]

@@SDY274 That's what the panels are good for, because once the logic has been hammered down in front of you, you can only throw emotion around so much before you acknowledge it. (Unless you're spineless lance and just ignores all the times you're blatantly wrong)

[@Ziddane1996]

Honestly this may be the best debate I have seen you participate in. You can see, on her face, the moment she understood what you were saying and it's obvious in your actions that her showing that understanding earned your respect. When y ok y covered your mouth after half a word I knew she earned it. You never know when people are unreasonable. Great debate with Katee. 10/10

[@HDitzzDH]

Stabby is literally shaking her head when Destiny and Katee started coming to a consensus half way into the discussion, she just wanted Destiny to be in the wrong.

[@buddgaf1304]

katee, what a roller coaster of a panelist. she started out seemingly willfully unable to understand the conversation. was she trolling or truly unable to understand? before you can decide, she suddenly becomes this beautiful shimmering example of enlightenment. yes! she gets it! how wonderful it feels to watch someone in real time GET IT, you know? this must be the high that teachers chase... and then... just as quickly as it came it dissolves and we're left right back where we started. i can't even.

[@richarddixon6352]

Hard core Feminist tripping over everyone to be offended. Childish behavior

[@Aryzo]

lol its so funny because actual predators would be like yes girl, youre so right, there is nothing women can do except sit their quietly and take the abuse. makes me actually question if there is some subconscious thing going on here

[@Alexmagno7]

I think she made some good points, her enlightenment just suddenly went against chaelry and less so Destiny. And the reason why she suddenly started listening to Destiny and went into rational mode (33:40) is because he made use of a calibrated question which made her be more rational (imo 😳). You kinda force your opponent's rational part of her brain to kick in """ Chapter 7: Create the Illusion of Control When you go into a store, instead of telling the salesclerk what you “need,” you can describe what you’re looking for and ask for suggestions. Then, once you’ve picked out what you want, instead of hitting them with a hard offer, you can just say the price is a bit more than you budgeted and ask for help with one of the greatest-of-all-time calibrated questions: “How am I supposed to do that?” Calibrated questions have the power to educate your counterpart on what the problem is rather than causing conflict by telling them what the problem is. You should use calibrated questions early and often, and there are a few that you will find that you will use at the beginning of nearly every negotiation. “What is the biggest challenge you face?” is one of those questions. Here are some other great standbys that Chris uses in almost every negotiation, depending on the situation: What about this is important to you? How can I help to make this better for us? How would you like me to proceed? What is it that brought us into this situation? How can we solve this problem? What’s the objective? / What are we trying to accomplish here? How am I supposed to do that? Calibrated questions make your counterpart feel like they’re in charge, but it’s really you who are framing the conversation. Even with all the best techniques and strategy, you need to regulate your emotions if you want to have any hope of coming out on top. The first and most basic rule of keeping your emotional cool is to bite your tongue. Another simple rule is, when you are verbally assaulted, is to disarm your counterpart by asking a calibrated question. When people feel that they are not in control, they adopt what psychologists call a hostage mentality. That is, in moments of conflict they react to their lack of power by either becoming extremely defensive or lashing out. Avoid questions that can be answered with “Yes” or tiny pieces of information. These require little thought and inspire the human need for reciprocity; you will be expected to give something back. Ask calibrated questions that start with the words “How” or “What.” By implicitly asking the other party for help, these questions will give your counterpart an illusion of control and will inspire them to speak at length, revealing important information. Don’t ask questions that start with “Why” unless you want your counterpart to defend a goal that serves you. “Why” is always an accusation, in any language. Calibrate your questions to point your counterpart toward solving your problem. This will encourage them to expend their energy on devising a solution. """ - Never Split the Difference: Negotiating as if Your Life Depended on It

[@buddgaf1304]

@@Alexmagno7 thanks for that!

[@Winasaurus]

@@Aryzo That's honestly what I suspect. The way she insists that women who are raped know all the advice people give and that it happening multiple times is NEVER a pattern about the woman makes it sound like something akin to that may have happened to her and she's rationalized it away and projects that. Maybe SHE heard all the advice. But she can't bring herself to admit that she may have heard but didn't really take action about it and so instead will act like the advice is always taken and useless anyway. Same for the pattern thing. It's probably infinitely easier to rationalize that the world is bad and women get raped a lot than it is to admit that maybe some women are more vulnerable than others. And they're vulnerable because they don't take the 'easy advice' to protect themselves. I mean it's obviously all speculation but her literally wild-eyed insistence that the advice is bad advice because everyone already follows it, apparently, when in the same thread they're talking about there's plenty of examples of women stating they didn't follow that advice, it seems she's disconnected from reality or projecting her own onto it. And yeah, actual rapists love women like this. "The world sucks and men are rapey, but I won't stop you casual dating and in fact all I'll give you is a 'hope it doesn't happen!'", yeah, rapists are huge fans. Hell it would only be better for them if she came out and said "Oh and rape reports barely ever make it to court so there's almost no reason in making one"

[@JustASnake]

While I personally dislike some of the ways Destiny chooses to phrase his points in this conversation, I can understand his meaning and ignore what I feel as "bad optics" on his part. The fact that these conversations are just filled with overly emotional people that are not trying to understand what he means is extremely frustrating to me.

[@sollertia_]

agreed, I feel like Destiny is like a lecturer teaching why 1+1=2 using the most convoluted and precise language towards high school students. Even if his proof is as good as it can be, it doesn't get the point across and will only make the students more confused. Meanwhile, the students are trying to ignore the arithmetic of 1+1=2 and attack the axioms of maths. Maybe not the most precise analogy, but listening to this gave me similar frustrations to hard math so I thought of it.

[@rayman878]

This is particularly why I liked him initially but his tendency to dig his heels in when he's technically right but optically meh is super irritating. It would almost undoubtedly lead to better conversations

[@apfelfreund6859]

Tbf: since many women actually experience actual rape or sexual assault I can understand being emotional- which doesn't mean it's good for a discussion

[@JustASnake]

@@apfelfreund6859 absolutely.

[@bestdjaf7499]

@@apfelfreund6859 Dude, only crazy people think that. Either you've never had sex, or you are a monster. I've been sexually assaulted including rape at least 5-10 time. Women are crazy like everyone else. What, women have never raped you? * Horny women act the same way as men, I presume. One girl (my roommate) wouldn't take "No" as an answer. 2ce I was able to fight her back, but the 3rd time, I felt she will stab me & burn my apartment down. * Some times women love you & want to pease you, & sometimes women are just crazy.

[@fearlesslion56]

Sharing trauma publicly on social media absolutely isn't the way to heal or help. Empathy to the post or even sympathy might help but anything else will completely destroy. Internet is free expression as close and as wild as it gets. This culture of sharing everything on the Internet and to everyone should be stopped. Trauma should only be shared to people you know or trust. The Internet is bigger than you think especially if you're going thru a trauma.

[@pete6300]

I grew up in a gang war territory neighborhood in the 90s. I can't imagine people always saying we really need to change the gang members they need to be better. We should be able to freely interact with our environment. What we did was develop strategies to survive in that hostile environment with the least amount of risk.

[@johnbd9765]

Saying that people who want to wander around on a shooting range should wear a bulletproof vest is victim blaming bro

[@OpiatesAndTits]

I think the more important effort is to look at the circumstances that create gang members abs deal with those. Ultimately people who join gangs aren’t necessarily unrepentant sociopaths they are looking community, belonging, and security in a world where they have none.

[@wholesome2792]

This wouldn’t be a problem if this didn’t start with people going, oh you got into a conflict with this gang member? Well maybe you’re not mature enough to go out in this area. Everyone knows not to go down this avenue. Oh I’m getting backlash for speaking on a situation where I don’t have all the context? Well maybe everyone who isn’t a gang member is retarded and should have a cop walk them around town. Whereas it could’ve just been, hey I just saw these tweets and I thing it emphasizes a bigger problem, if you don’t know this already you should avoid this avenue if you’re wanting to avoid this conflict.

[@wholesome2792]

But we know that this happens for clicks, so if you want to create content all you have to do is give basic ass takes while being inflammatory, so that your viewer base will go like, “you’re technically right, but” for however many weeks it drags out.

[@delam617]

@@wholesome2792 No, you're just so triggered that you can't think straight. It's akin to a person saying "Everytime I go outside alone in the middle of the night in this gang territory, I keep getting into conflicts with them and it's kinda awkward to be aware of my surroundings" People will obviously tell you to stop going outside at night alone as self-preservation advice until you can be wary of your surroundings. They will also rightfully say, treating someone as if they can't ever be cautious is like treating them like stupid children.

[@Condeycon]

Oh my god I’m tearing my fucking hair out listening to this. My count is 5 times where these people have tried to get Destiny to say “I think rapey guys aren’t too immature to be engaging in casual sex, but women who can’t say ‘no’ are” And every single time he responds “no, I think men who do that are just as immature and shouldn’t be engaging in casual sex either.” They are so desperate for him to be inconsistent on this point. You can tell they came into this conversation thinking this would be the easiest got’chya ever and when it didn’t materialize they just… Keep trying?

[@noahwinslow3252]

Its not that they want him to be inconsistent, its that they can't wrap their heads around the position, all they can understand is the strawman so that's all they talk about

[@seph---]

@@noahwinslow3252 This. He literally says "This is like, my seventh time saying this"

[@GFTCNJ]

They did think it would be easy. The blonde girl damn near threw her cat the very first time Destiny disagreed with her.

[@emeryboehnke4259]

It's the web thing or the bubble thing. They see his position as close enough to "she was asking for it" and proceed from there with the same dialogue tree. But I'll actually give Katee some credit for understanding his positions pretty well.

[@DustbinFunkbndr]

Calling someone out on inconsistencies is the easiest entry level dunk is debate spaces. It’s the only trick these kind of people know to use. They’re spamming Back>B until they win but Destiny knows how to counter it.

[@bgoode652]

chaelry: I just really wish we would stop calling advice moving forward "victim blaming" That is the summary of this whole video.

[@mosser-wm3dx]

"I get mugged everytime I take the shortcut home, I'm not going to stop taking the shortcut though". Destiny made 100 percent valid points and in no way made excuses for the perpetrators but this panel kept assuming so because they have so little brain cells to rub together they they aren't capable of critical thinking.

[@telvannishrigmamale1501]

1:19:56 part was priceless. I am soooo glad Destiny called Stabby out on her grimacing when he says something but nods when someone on "her team" says the exact same thing.

[@kingryan69]

I used to volunteer at a womens shelter when I was working at a treatment centre, we taught some basics about self defence and a woman got upset and said that we were teaching women that everything was their fault. what we were teaching was situational awareness, paying attention and risk mitigation. nobody aside from actual scumbags thinks that ignoring boundaries is ok, or that people who are victimised are completely at fault. we do think everyone should be taught how to avoid problematic issues if at all possible.

[@ExeErdna]

That's the whole red pill talking point about how women hate accountability which at first seems highly sexist until you run into those that hate being accountable for what they do. They think they can have all the recklessness and nothing bad should happen. They would be pissed off at gravity if they fell out the bed instead of rolling over the other way.

[@lavellelee5734]

@@ExeErdna some of the more extreme red pills be having facts!!! Only some, don't stroll over to the crimson side🤣

[@cngotham4111]

@@ExeErdna red pill generalize and say most woman are like this and usually they cherry pick woman to make all of woman to look bad. Yes red pill gives some advice but the whole movement as a whole at least Andrew Tate,sneako and fresh and fit and they give terrible advice.

[@ExeErdna]

@@cngotham4111 I'll keep it 100, if you're listening to Sneako's who very green when it comes to the world. If you're listening to spectacle which is F&F at times and Andrew Tate who was quickly growing more insane. You're a goddamn fool. They are not the paragon of redpill. The closest person to a paragon passed away recently. You cannot pick out the loudest ones and go "yup that's the whole movement"

[@cngotham4111]

@@ExeErdna You can't ignore that part of the movement and act like it's not the red pill. However we both agree at least that the people who listen to them are fools. So is the red pill Steven crowder,Peterson,Shapiro and ect? If not them then who

[@TheMarkSasuke64]

50:38 Don't complain about being infantilized when you're throwing tantrums like a child, katee. You're one mic-punch away from Gavin.

[@righteousrawb7225]

Yup

[@guffeluffe5987]

She's litteraly emotionally unstable and shouldn't be debating lol

[@jfklmk13447]

Yeah she has no place in debates with the emotional stability of a 5 year old

[@burbsl1672]

It seems she got better at the end tho.

[@1rish_pher099]

Surface level consent conversations. Got to love it. We can't even get deeper into the conversation because your hung up on 'blame', gender, personal stories, horrible faith argumentation and words (which are important but another convo) and most infuriatingly going in circles for 2 hours.

[@LonnyH]

Just gotta say that Prime's moderation has improved SO much in the last 6 months. Idk what his opinion on this even is, and he did a great job of actually moderating the conversation. Kudos.

[@SEVENTEENPOINT1]

100 percent! I think we were a little harsh with him at first. When people give takes you find wrong it can be really hard to hold your touge.

[@paraxe]

I agree, I have no idea who this guys is, this is the only "podcast" he did I saw but I have to say the moderation is way better than some other debates destiny has been a part of

[@hrs9018]

Idk about that, I can definitely tell he's mainly on the feminists side just based on how he reacted to some of what Destiny and chaelry were saying (shaking his head, rolling his eyes, sarcastic smiles etc...) But yeah, he's improving

[@bruhelbruh6293]

Yeah I live how impartial he was. Did the job like a real one

[@simplysage3562]

@@hrs9018 at least it wasn't verbal Dissertation like others

[@DustbinFunkbndr]

“Let me define awkward for you” there I was, sliding off the ledge, watching my fingers slip one by one. There I though: “oh is this a moment where I can hold on and get up, or am I going to fall to my death? Uh oh, this sure is awkward” What a wildly dishonest conversation and I’m only 20mins in,

[@Winasaurus]

I remember that time Anders Breivik blew up a building and then went to shoot a bunch of students just minding their own business because he's an insane terrorist. That must have been truly awkward for those students. Maybe even cringe.

[@thesnowybanana2971]

*record scratch* Yep, that's me. You're probably wondering how I got into this situation.

[@nachi4083]

"The rest of the world isn't here to accommodate your trauma" really rings true to me. It's one thing to ask people to be understanding of something that has happened to you, but to act like everyone else has a responsibility to behave according to your personal circumstances is just a reach that I'll never accept in the context of debates surrounding such topics.

[@thek2despot426]

Well, it's just appreciating that complex problems need pluralistic solutions. Destiny isn't saying that violating peoples' interests or boundaries is tolerable or is something we shouldn't aspire to change, it's just acknowledging that 1. The positive results of such prescriptions are uncertain in practical terms, and 2. Are necessary but not sufficient to fixing the problem in theoretical terms. The logical endpoint of the thinking you offer is basically a world where society either doesn't exist or isn't worth existing since no one ever is willing to accommodate and regard the needs and preferences of others, so any form of social interdependence, mutual cooperation, and common intentions are at best crippled and at worst impossible. Empathy for the plight of others isn't bad, it's actually extremely valuable, it's just that consequentialism and shrewd pragmatism are also extremely valuable for solving moral problems.

[@notonfire7318]

Reminds me of how Contrapoints said once someone got really offended coz she started talking about daddy kink in the middle of her livestream. The person said they had been abused by someone who practiced that kink on them and Natalie should've put a trigger warning. Which is so stupid, coz while I'm sure their trauma is real it's also really really stupid to expect everyone to adjust to testing daddy kink as a trigger word because of that 1 singular experience

[@malbasedvalentine3210]

Pretty sure many who were called “bigots” or “old” have been saying this for years. When the world starts to follow more anarchist routes, or Marxism, than you are essentially signing up for a world that follows this overdramatized problem. The same with all sorts of other problems, with different topics. You see the problem with modern America, is it follows ideas that are selfish and ignorant, instead of something that benefits all as a whole. Getting married, waiting till marriage, wearing respectable clothing. All of these are fundamentally necessary for a healthy society, that will eventually need to work together to progress without these mundane distractions. This would solve modern society’s embrace of selfish wants. You want to know why the 50s, back, was so restrictive and regulated? Because, a lot of the the past contained, rape, murder, or thievery! Ideas needed to be implemented, and they were going to be harsh, and they were. Unfortunately today has become too privileged and selfish to understand why men had to make this decision. Any modern person would simply believe these men were all “sexist” to make these restrictive decisions on women, but if that were true, why wouldn’t men have chosen a more pleasurable choice for themselves? Instead of wrapping women up, and only having their face exposed? It was only when those like Hugh Hefner made the situation worst….

[@dylangeorgeson6580]

Depends tho, I feel it's a lot more applicable on the internet but like if you have a friend irl who walks into a conversation that makes them feel a bit uncomfortable I feel like it's a bit weird to be like "NOT HERE TO ACCOMMODATE UR FEELINGS SNOWFLAKE"

[@brandonwhite562]

@@notonfire7318 Exactly. I think that people should learn to adapt to or leave a situation that triggers them. If someone says something to trigger you, you can educate them and explain your trauma. Hopefully the will respect it and adapt. This is completely different from saying a person should automatically be aware of your trauma and adapt to it in their everyday life if you have not already expressed it to them. You cant expect people to read your mind or know your past.

[@scottsandoval2148]

Katee is absolutely insufferable.

[@rossmanngroup]

This reminds me of what Trump said after the charlottesville thing 5 years ago. He said there were bad people... on both sides. it came off as false equivalence. In technical terms, the people carrying torches were not people I would let pet my cat. and many of the anti-fascist protestors I have seen come out here whether during the BLM protests-often-turned-riots in June 2020, or for other reasons, have not been people I'd want to let pet my cat either. but when he said that, it came off so bad and there was no defending it. had he said _"we condemn nazi bigotry copypasta condemnation"_ statement, then a few weeks later said _"let's be clear, the torch carriers were some bad effing people. no reductionist language there. that being said, some of the counter-demonstrators weren't angels either, and I think we need to make sure that one branch of extremism is not fueling another"_ , the same thing is being said, but would've gotten far less blowback. i agreed with 99% of what destiny said on this panel. it seems like his opponents are on edge, and assuming the least charitable thing of him, based on the choice of phrasing for the original tweet. there's ways to phrase it so it comes off better. people who are reading tweets/threads about sexual harassment are likely to be people who have experienced this before, people who experienced it before are likely to be on edge, people who are on edge over that are likely to view _"r word child"_ getting used and lose it regardless of the intended meaning. the language is going to shut down their brains. that tough love approach may result in introspection and change, but it could also be argued that the tough love approach could result in someone ignoring the advice out of lizard brain stubbornness. either way, good discussion

[@YH-si8xk]

Based Laptop Repair Guy

[@that1guy246]

Waiting for the political channel to happen

[@Me-kt3gh]

I wasn’t going to read this lengthy comment bc I’m tired, but then I saw it was you. Based 👌

[@jamesmack9598]

God damn Rossman, coming in here with those measured and rational analyses of things from different perspectives. Don't you know your kind aren't welcome here in the hyper-partisan cyberspace that is twitch debates. (Just kidding, would be interested to hear your two-cents on more issues than the amazing job you've done with both platforming right to repair debates and examining New York real estate markets/urban decay. Big fan!)

[@FBvio]

I dunno, when Trump did it, it seemed more like a way to avoid criticising the extreme right.

[@mayordoctor3961]

as a lefty nothing amuses me more than watching other leftys purposefully ignore and rage at pretty simple logic

[@Narutou01]

The reckless driving analogy is perfect. My sister totaled 3 cars in one year which she swears weren't her fault. My dad told her "you have to drive for other people on the road". Meaning you have to be conscientious of other people's potential errors and adapt accordingly. You have to be safe or even extra safe for their sake and your sake. I took that advice upon myself and have yet to be in an accident while behind the wheel.

[@AVspectre]

Yeah, Defensive Driving courses may reduce your risk of having an accident as you are able to better foresee the consequences of the dangerous behaviour of others. You could get into an accident that is not your fault at all. That doesn’t mean it might not be more desirable to potentially avoid the accident all-together by being able to take defensive action to protect oneself. It doesn’t change whose at fault.

[@Winasaurus]

@@AVspectre No-one is arguing who the person with ultimate blame is. We're arguing if the other person had a role to play. Pretending they don't is silly, and pretending they're solely responsible is silly.

[@pheebs818]

On point

[@meechh3782]

Stabby not knowing accidental rape is a thing is absolutely insane. ESPECIALLY how she won’t shut up about her military stuff. It’s talked about non stop from SAPR advocates.

[@kimandre5842]

the word itself without context sounds a bit silly, you know with all the "ubs i stumbled and fell and it accidentaly got in" jokes, but i get what you mean :D

[@mikek128]

@@kimandre5842that was such a shitty reply, give it 20 seconds of thoughts and the context. Obvious what he meant on that one, and could easily be thought through on that one

[@wombatmats]

Stabby may be the oldest person on this panel, but she sure gives off massive preteen vibes with all that eye-rolling. I mean, like, what-ever.

[@TheKeefeStone]

Yes. In real life, I make it a point to never associate with Anybody that does that. Nearly broke up with an ex earlier than necessary because her friend rolled her eyes when meeting me.

[@bobzombie2710]

@@TheKeefeStone Yikes.

[@appleseed4672]

Something that bothered me was how smug, condescending and passive aggressive that Katee person was being, I would've left the call

[@publicintellectual]

the stabby girl was too concerned with trying to pigeonhole destiny into some widely despised category like "not all men" types or "no sex outside of marriage" type ... very dishonest

[@undeadman7676]

"Stop giving women unsolicited advice about how to engage with sexual encounters" "Also, find every man you can and give them unsolicited advice about how to engage with sexual encounters"

[@jonsimpson6240]

Yup...

[@cfrank901]

This conversation baffles me. It's such a simple concept. You have agency in situations that are not your fault. Period.

[@alewis17]

This debate Im assuming is gonna be the whole panel saying "Bad guys shouldn't be bad"

[@Trappu-]

Rape bad. I'm so brave

[@Dino_Pony]

@@Trappu- you were correct.

[@bookoo0193]

Guys don't rape, girls you do whatever you want even if you are woefully unprepared because girl power! Absolutely nothing could be the girls fult because we told the guys don't rape. Now where's my Twitter clout. In case this isn't obvious (This is completely sarcasm)

[@gonzo2049]

@@bookoo0193 i mean its not the girls fault, but we should be empowering people to be able to stick up for themselves, yes

[@almosthadit5054]

We have a psychic here.

[@SouljaFred]

Emotional responses to a serious subject makes it hard to progress forward. I don’t know how destiny does this

[@bewarned8236]

I love Chaelry's super passive aggressive hits towards katee and stabby, and it COMPLETELY goes over their heads LMAP, god damnit shes awesome lmao

[@bewarned8236]

@PAYTON MCKENZIE Little late on this one, i dont even remember what it was about. Good luck.

[@snakeking5009]

I loved how during the car example she said that the police usually assign fault and say that “there was nothing you could do” which was basically a 1 for 1 analogy for the people who say to rape victims that there’s nothing they could’ve done which strengthened destiny’s analogy even harder 💀 aside from the chaelry girl who was pretty reasonable, half these people just agreed and debated terminology for 2 hours.

[@sandorfeher885]

Destiny : *asks Spectre a question* Spectre: "Katee, mnm, yes?" Katee: " Oh Stabby, can you google us some arguments" Stabby: " oh yes lemme give you my fabulous military story once again"

[@MrFIRESEAL117]

People like Stabby like to use their military employment as a way to gain social currency in debates. The thing is a lot of people don't give a shit about her military history.

[@azoun80]

Stop sending it to spectre...dude can barely comprehend breathing, let alone a conversation.

[@righteousrawb7225]

Damn lol

[@nsaylor9]

Yeah the momentum of the conversation hits a brick wall when it goes it him.

[@James-wf8nu]

You don't have to be so mean

[@havefaith4382]

@@James-wf8nu its not mean its the cold truth and if he cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen

[@KumaNicol]

I love when these condescending women go like "oh no your poor feelings, you couldn't handle being told to do better." But then if anyone, including the other girl on this panel that seems to have a brain, says the inverse, that women should "do better" to try and avoid dangerous situations, they fucking reee at the top of their lungs. so who was it that cannot handle it? Hard to tell from here lmao.

[@roarbertbearatheon8565]

Nah, you should just help change society via tweets to the point where there are no more rapists and if you're not doing that, then you're part of the problem

[@masasosaa9835]

Chaotic Femininity (:

[@Winasaurus]

"Oh you're gonna cry and say 'not all men' when I blame all men? Boohoo" "DONT FUCKING TELL HER TO NOT FUCK STRANGERS SHE DOESNT EVEN KNOW THE NAME OF IF THATS WHAT SHE WANTS"

[@bliphehe]

Katee constantly smiling like she's making a point is MIND FUCKING ME.

[@magicmark3309]

“Don’t nut in a women if she has less money then you” The look on their faces was priceless. This whole debate is so dumb. Don’t give smart advice if it could be taken as victim blaming. Jesus. I can’t help but feel a deep sense of cynicism taking root in me, and I fucking hate it. I wanna believe these people think back on these arguments and atleast question their positions.

[@rotemtomhagbi1937]

It's the same people that will tell you wear a mask and vaccinat your self for protection wont help other women protect themselves.

[@magicmark3309]

@@tbone6182 🔥

[@Metguy123]

Timestamp?

[@magicmark3309]

@@Metguy123 it starts at around 1:33:35 at the ‘Reverse the Roles’ chapter I think…but it’s been a year since I made this comment. Lol. I don’t know if I quoted it verbatim, but if you’re on an actual computer/laptop you can open the transcript and Control+F/Command+F/Windows Key + F(depending on what OS and browser you’re using) to search the transcript using the find shortcut.

[@N3wW0rld]

It was really entertaining to watch Katee be triggered every 15 seconds while Destiny or that Charley girl was talking. 3-hour forced smile cope.

[@michaelh13]

Perhaps this panel would’ve been less chaotic if Prime had 7 or 8 more people on the show

[@mrman-yj3bn]

"If you say even 1% of the fault if hers then you are victim blaming... but also kyle rittenhouse knew where he was going so it's not self defence"

[@FireGod1101]

I disagree with the first part, but KR was definitely being fucking stupid that night.

[@mrman-yj3bn]

@@FireGod1101 I completely agree. It's just funny that they say "HOW DARE YOU VICTIM BLAME HER?" but simultaneously say "yeah, kyle knew what could of happened so he deserved it"

[@FireGod1101]

@@mrman-yj3bn Right!? Fucking Double Standards. Both of the political parties are cancer when it comes to blindspots

[@johnstarnes3731]

So were the 4 shit stains who got what they needed. And everyone else out there that night who unfortunately didn't get anything

[@Amy8Amy8Amy]

Honestly, the most frustrating part of this whole panel is having been sexually assaulted in the exact circumstances Destiny discussed and not understanding why or what was going on. I didn’t know how to assert my boundaries, so when I was pushed into something I was curious about (but very hesitant to do), I ended up becoming an victim of sexual assault. It is something I rarely discuss, because for a long time I had felt wholly responsible for the experience. The same issues within myself (including severe anxiety) that were a part of what led to my SA were also why I *wasn’t* participating in these conversations with friends. Even when I was educated on “rape culture,” I didn’t participate much because it never included these nuanced discussions. Had I been given the tools to work through nuanced sexual situations as a teen, I believe I would have been better prepared for the times I was pressured past my comfort level. These people are responding so reactively, but they don’t realize their “passion” isn’t what’s going to help lower the SA rate. Education and preparation will.

[@noahgeorge5583]

I'm very sorry that happened to you and I respect the spiritual growth you obviously took to rise above it and equip yourself with the tools others didn't give you, I wish you a much better life going forward and thank you for sharing your experience

[@YouFearYou]

So I was stealthed as well, I realized it and stopped the situation. I asked him if he did it and he lied and said no..we stopped. I kicked him out and barely talked to him again and considered calling the cops, we stopped instantly however it still happened to me...and that's my fault? Bulls hit and I have the messages of him admitting it and I knew him for at least a year dating and he always wore them. I was adamant and he knew I wanted him to wear one. We never didn't. To put that on women is fing ridiculous..the whole point is being a secret.

[@Amy8Amy8Amy]

@@YouFearYou You expressed exactly what he is arguing women need to do in situations like yours. It isn’t your fault you were stealthed, and it never will be, but if you were unable to tell him to leave; then continued to open yourself to unsafe situations through casual sex with partners you don’t know well, it increases the likelihood of that situation recurring tenfold. It is important to learn how to advocate for yourself in sexual situations because not being able to opens people up to considerable trauma. That being said, I think Destiny tends to argue in an aggressive way that’s often much much more offensive than necessary, and uses a lot of hyperbolic statements.

[@Amy8Amy8Amy]

@@YouFearYou I also agree it shouldn’t be women who take the brunt of blame for being stealthed or sexually assaulted, to be clear, but I DO think it is important to learn how to advocate for yourself.

[@YouFearYou]

@@Amy8Amy8Amy right. I just think it's ridiculous that I would have any fault or blame in that like the whole point is so women don't see them doing it..however either way I was affected by it but I'm not going to stop living my life. What he's truly saying is men are incapable of changing and being better bc there are always going to be degenerates so protect yourself..cool but men make stupid decisions all the time whether you know them or not so if I'm subject to that again it's still not on me bc I'd take the same actions. You can't say men don't know and push boundaries and then say if it happens more than once that's a woman's fault.

[@s0xfan04]

This katee person within 30 minutes of practice became comfortable reclaiming her time when she was previously being over spoken. She is literal proof that this is a good practice to implement

[@Sesshounamaru7]

@@s0xfan04 Isn't destiny chaning the subject here??? Because we got angry at him by how its retarded to talk shit to a person who has been raped and give them useless advices that THEY HAVE ALREADY TRIED EXACTLY HOW DESTINY WANTED AND IT DIDNT WORK then just laughing at others people rape... That was the original issue, and here i see Destiny moving the goalpost to preventive advice which we never were angry at him for that

[@lazysod3]

Chaeiry wasn’t allowed to speak enough. She is always one of the most intelligent voices.

[@ChuckFinelyForever]

Even when she did try to speak, she got blocked.

[@chromegnats]

1000% agreed.

[@WhiteJeezus]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who noticed

[@darrenr90]

Chaeiry won this debate. She was able to bridge the gap between destiny's charged language and the "arguments" the other group was making.

[@swaggerjack2074]

There was a point where she said exactly what destiny said, and they all agreed, but when destiny said it 30 seconds earlier, it was an outrageous claim to them

[@vincentvaleur3573]

It’s because they never want to concede a point to a man.

[@bdrferreira]

@@vincentvaleur3573 Tbf sometimes Destiny is shit at conveying his point of view to people who are wired differently than him.

[@vincentvaleur3573]

@@bdrferreira I can agree with that. In this very debate he appeared to stoke the flames at times. But I think it speak volumes about their characters if they can't understand his point of view after the 4th iteration.

[@Abyssal-Watcher]

Yeah she was the middle ground. To bad she talked the least and even got interrupted. Really bad interruption that pissed me off at 1:42:00.

[@jjmah7]

I’ve never in my life seen someone (Stabby) so excited to tell everyone how many times she’s been raped when no one asked

[@off6848]

I have and they all look like her too

[@jul2027]

it makes me scared for any man near her

[@jjmah7]

@@off6848 😂 she does have a certain ‘look’ to her so I could see it

[@jjmah7]

@@jul2027 truly!

[@vincentmalloy8423]

if i tell my kid “don’t get into a stranger’s van”, is that victim blaming?

[@alewis17]

Katie's point towards the end about destiny's rhetoric was basically "telling people to lock their doors will result in thieves believing they are less accountable for robbery in which more robbery will be commited"

[@CaptainBones222]

Not just that, but that argument leads to this logical conclusion that if everyone started to not take any precautions against criminals, criminals will suddenly feel that they are more accountable for their actions because nobody will bother to stop them so they will suddenly be responsible and not commit any more crimes if people stopped taking precautions against them.

[@Healcraft]

the whole thing boils down to everybody putting an invisible "sole" before the word "responsibility" every time.

[@BengalW]

"Let me bog down the conversation with definitions and my personal experiences and not contribute at all." -StabbyGmr 2022

[@Yvs8962]

I basically had this exact argument with my friends GF a few weeks ago about a situation where a player in a gaming community was being cancelled for sharing a hotel room with a girl he was friends with at an event and they both got black out drunk and had sex. (More stories came out about him after and he was banned, but this was the first and what we were discussing). I had the audacity to say that women AND men should be smarter and avoid putting themselves in situations like this where they are vulnerable and the pieces are all in place for something to go wrong. That sharing a hotel room and getting black out drunk with the opposite sex is a really stupid thing to do on both ends if you dont want to grape/be graped/have an ethically dubious sexual encounter. The girl said in her statement that she never wanted to be romantic with him at all… So yeah. They gave all the typical “SHE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO *be as stupid and irresponsible* AS SHE WANTS AND NOT GET gRAPED!!!” “SHE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO TRUST HIM!!!” and I was like “Yeah she should, but unfortunately in this world she cant depend on that and to trust someone enough to put yourself in a spot like that with them is inherently misplaced trust imo, and clearly I was right”. She then ofc called me a “victim blamer” and called me “grapey” and insinuated Im a potential grapist because I said “I would never put myself in this type of situation because I dont want there to even be a chance of something like this happening” which she interpreted as me saying I would also do this in that situation and I dont trust myself not to. I just dont hold myself above the flaws of humans. In my right state of mind its something I would never do, and I think most people think that. Most people assume theyre good people. You hear so many stories of broken trust and “I cant believe they would do that I never thought they were capable” and the people who did it saying “This isnt who I am”… Not all grapists are people who think its okay to grape, a lot are just people who put themselves in fucked up sexual encounters because they assumed it could never be them. I would like to think Im above that, but I am not arrogant enough to assume, and so I just steer clear of those situations completely. But because of that I’m apparently “grapey”…. Ok sure :]

[@Magibatproductions]

In the case of elegant, his pattern of awful drunk behavior makes me lose all sympathy for him. I feel like she should have been able to trust him not to do that to her since they were friends for years but if you think that that long time bond is meaningless in the face of male horniness, then I give up on humanity. Yeah she shouldn't have gotten drunk and shared a room with him but they were also in different beds. He climbed in her bed and did sexual things to her. They were both drunk so they were both "blameless" but it was still a shit situation. And that's ignoring the other heinous shit he did. Like the r kelly stuff lmao

[@Yvs8962]

@@Magibatproductions Yes this discussion we had only had to do with the first story that came out about him. By the time all the others came out theres just no way to have any sympathy for the guy cuz hes a real scumbag, but pertaining to the first story about him I just dont see how it helps at all to not acknowledge that placing yourself in a situation like that is playing with fire… Both people shouldve been able to recognize that well before they shared a hotel room alone and got black out drunk together. Like yeah she SHOULD have been able to trust him, but is it smart to? Why would you put that much trust in someone in such a vulnerable situation and just assume nothing can happen to you? At the end of the day hes the scumbag here and she didnt really do anything wrong per se, but I just think its better to acknowledge that walking into a situation that could so easily allow for something like that to happen is just highly irresponsible. Like I should be able to walk through the ghetto with my million dollar watch and not get robbed, but is it responsible towards my well being to do so? When you say things like this people will say youre blaming the women for what happened to them, and “siding” with the guy, but Im not. Fuck Elegant. All Im saying is if we want shit like this to stop happening we should analyze and acknowledge in which ways the women’s actions and lack of caution made an avoidable situation possible. We should encourage people to act more cautiously, not tell women they should do whatever they want and assume nothing bad will ever happen to them. This is why just telling men not to r*pe doesnt work. You and I can agree not to, but you cant depend on and trust that everyone out there will be as good a person as you. We need to equally encourage people to navigate the world cautiously, because these risks will not simply go away.

[@thrash208]

NUANCE SHALL NOT BE TOLERATED!!!!!

[@joshb7326]

28:21 the two women Stabby and Katee are embarrassing themselves. They spent 28 mins being passive-aggressive from the start attempting to trap Destiny into something that they have misinterpreted, then when Stabby says "finally" she reaches the point that she understands what he is saying, but doesn't realise it is because she is misinterpreting him 🙄

[@bestdjaf7499]

They don't understand that men don't like eachother. APA (American Psychological Association): *"Women are nearly five times more likely to show an automatic preference for their own gender* than men are to show such favoritism for their own gender, according to a study in the October issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology (Vol. 87, No. 4)." Moreover, men and women tended to show high implicit self-esteem and high gender identity; however, men showed low pro-male gender attitudes, according to the study. *""A clear pattern shown in all four studies is that men do not like themselves automatically as much as women like themselves,"* Rudman says. "This contradicts a lot of theoretical thinking about implicit attitudes regarding status differences.""

[@Pale_ghost]

katee was mostly fine. Stabby tho... in the first 30min every time she speaks she has to mention that women were not allowed to vote.

[@lonewaer]

@@Pale_ghost What have you watched to say that ? Katee was mostly being an immature child. She's not mature enough to be on such a panel, she's not mature enough to talk about consent or sex, and specifically for "teaching"/giving lessons about consent or sex, and most importantly, she's dangerous to both women and men around her because she won't properly advise her friends, and because she is a bad communicator, meaning any man involved with her is at risk of being called a "spicy enforcer" since she expects him to read her mind. She's a walking red flag, and clearly demonstrated it throughout this panel.

[@Pale_ghost]

@@lonewaer its been a month, but from the way she talked katee gave off the impression that she actually touched grass unlike the terminaly online one with twitter as her personality.

[@ewesty222]

Stabby bringing up car insurance and police supposedly saying "actually this wasn't your fault at all there was nothing you could've done" is completely false, you become 10% liable for an accident in the eye's of your insurance provider when you get behind the wheel and start driving just for being on the road and the only way they will ever concede that it was in no way your fault is if someone hit your car while it was parked 1:21:55

[@nsaylor9]

This is absolute bullshit. If you’re driving and someone runs a red light and T bones you, the other driver is 100% at fault. What an asinine comment.

[@ayamehachimitsu]

@@nsaylor9 You don't understand how car insurance works. If you get in to an accident without being parked, vast majority of the time your insurance cost goes up. The more accidents you are in even if the majority fault is them, your cost will slightly go up because you are considered more risky with each accident.

[@alewis17]

@@ayamehachimitsu all im hearing is insurance is a scam Lmao

[@ewesty222]

@@nsaylor9 if you get T boned do you just not file a claim with your insurance at all and leave it 100% to the at-fault driver's insurance provider ?

[@ewesty222]

@@ayamehachimitsu this is correct, there is an inherent risk to driving so you're always partially liable for anything that might happen even in no-fault situations

[@swahagod8369]

Honestly if they just asked destiny if he loved black people he would have lost. They missed that slam dunk

[@adippinghippo]

Katie a gold medalist in bad faith arguments

[@alwayssunnyincalifornia9272]

Was literally talking about changing behavioral patterns to avoid falling into the same relationships expecting anything different in your server just yesterday ayyyy

[@spudman1734]

@@loganroofpedoexposer4952 what

[@johnhancock1748]

@@spudman1734 what

[@sundrelstriker7513]

It's hilarious to me that everyone has come around to his argument and agrees with it. The internet is a silly place

[@xDomof]

right haha they started arguing that he was being mean on twitter

[@LuciusSicarius]

1:38:20 after watching them be as hostile and condescending as humanly possible the entire debate, watching their reactions to destiny's answer was fucking hilarious and satisfying as hell.

[@SteamedToast]

Funniest moment in the whole debate

[@mysticflow467]

and the answer to his question is obviously unironically yes. obviously it's the safe bet to just not trust a woman if she says she's on birth control, especially if you're rich, it's obviously yes. this is why drake put hot sauce in his condom. obviously you should put hot sauce in your condom after you're done with it even if the girl promises she won't use it after, even if you've known her for 10+ years, because why not? what's the harm in being extra safe? if she isn't going to use it, no harm done, if she does plan to use it, boom you just prevented it. the not using a condom one isn't as win-win since some? all? guys say sex feels better with a condom off, but wearing one is still the safest bet, and the girl wouldn't have to take pills that affect her hormones, obviously if you're giving advice it would be, "wear a condom next time"

[@zaidsyed8187]

The cringe part about the opposition is that they care more for labels and appeal to emotions rather than actually resolving the problem of men and women struggling to communicate to one another about their sexual preferences in committed relationships as well as casual hookups so that girls can learn to speak up against weirdos and so that weirdos can learn that what they're doing is weird.

[@anthonybucyk6513]

Spectre: "Why is the first thing we target their [the victim's] behavior?" Because when you're giving advice TO THE VICTIM, the only thing you can tell them to do are things WITHIN THEIR CONTROL. You can't suddenly change the entire population of men to stop rape from happening, and any legal or social change that can have such an effect will take YEARS. The advice to STOP ENGAGING in behaviors that put you in danger is literally the only thing within the victim's control. Destiny isn't saying it's the victim's fault. He's not saying that it's the sole responsibility of the victim to ensure they don't get raped. He's saying there's a behavior the victim can take RIGHT NOW to avoid being raped, while they examine the root cause more thoroughly. The three of you pretending the victim should just share their story on Twitter and not take any preventative action in the future - you don't give a shit about the victim. All you care about is assigning blame. We know where the blame is - it's with the rapist. Everyone knows this. Stop virtue signaling and think about the words he's saying for a moment.

[@12wer3wer9]

Actually you are wrong here. The only thing you can do to lessen rape, is to change legislation and put harsher sentences on it. If rape came with 100% death penalty then there would be fewer rapes over night. Making people stop engaging in casual sex won't help much, because most rapes occur in partnerships/families. Meaning the person you think you know and care about rapes you. This is also why it's so hard for many people to come forward and be believed too. And why the more conservative middle eastern countries have an even bigger rape problem than the west. Destiny didn't blame the victim that's right, but he also didn't help out in any way with his advice. As a victim you also can't take enough precautions to no be raped. You can of course diminish the risks by not casually dating, but even walking to your house after work someone could rape you as a woman. This happens more then people care to know too.

[@rsbah]

@@12wer3wer9 I think both of you are wrong here 😅 As I understand it, the main fundamental point Destiny is saying is that if you can't assert your boundaries and be emotionally mature enough to say "No" to things you don't agree to, then you shouldn't engage in those activities until you sort yourself out Also, there is a lot of different meanings to the term rape. That Katee person acknowledged this and distinguished between normal rape and accident rape and assault etc multiple times for example. I don't believe the topic being discussed here is in regards to the "violent rape", but rather rape in the sense someone does something to push the boundaries and violate your consent (like stealthing). In such cases, a women (or man) strongly opposing it rather than freezing up is one of the main ways you stop it. That's what I believe Destiny is mainly asserting here

[@samurai15401]

​​@@12wer3wer9 I agree with you if the legal punishment for rape is made something like inhumane you'll see the crime drop off like crazy coz the fear is too much. Imagine if the punishment is like 3 months straight up torture and execution. All offenders will have nightmares. Punishment can change everything coz fear is primal and when the fear or threat of an activity is too hard people get severely discouraged. Easy example to demonstrate fear is only 1 out 1000 folks would have the guts to walk across a line of a 60 storey building. Coz when you look down from the height your legs will go jelly coz fear of death is too eminent. Increase the brutality of punishment for rape, murder and other horror stuff and you'll see how the number of incidents drop off.

[@flutterwind7686]

@@12wer3wer9 "The only thing you can do to lessen rape, is to change legislation" No, there are statistically proven ways to reduce your likelihood. You're making a false claim

[@12wer3wer9]

@@flutterwind7686 I agree with you that you can reduce the likelihood! But even then there is still a high enough chance of getting raped as a woman. If rapists were punished by death though rapes would drastically lessen over night.

[@ivanandreev1958]

1:22:44 The theatrical emotions on Stabby's face after Destiny's answer and the following sudden turn around to actual emotional response upon realization that person on her side agrees with Destiny is priceless, it shows the unwillingness to engage in an actual conversation. 3 moths later Stabby was sentenced to 16 mounts in prison without the possibility of parole.

[@crispy4797]

Did she stab someone?

[@theyautjawarrior6652]

Goddamn wtf did she do?

[@HDitzzDH]

Lmao what? What did she do?

[@ivanandreev1958]

@@HDitzzDH Upon writing my comment I realized, that it sounds exactly like JCS Criminal Psychology (guy who analyses criminal interrogation footage on KZbin), so I added a quote straight from one of his videos.

[@Winasaurus]

@@ivanandreev1958 Bruh I started reading it with the JCS voice before the end of the comment and it blew my mind that the comment predicted what was going on in my head.

[@ab-hx8qe]

Am I the only one disgusted by this person wearing assault like a badge of honor and then proceeds to wield it like a cudgel every chance they get?

[@purplemonkeydishwasher9818]

No it is disgusting. It’s being used to win an argument and we’re supposed to be falling over ourselves to apologize just so that we can get to the point where we can begin to have a conversation. If you aren’t able to have this conversation without appealing to your own trauma then sit this one out. We have to be able to have these talks calmly and objectively because these problems actually matter.

[@legin777]

Lots of people wrap themselves in their real or perceived "trauma" as a security blanket to deal with their shitty personal decisions. Or maybe its just a kind of consistency in life that comforts them as opposed to moving on from it? I've met so many people in my life that hold on to really toxic "traumas" as their sole personality point, and i don't understand it.

[@StraightUniversalism]

I don't think she did that to be fair

[@defer114]

@@StraightUniversalism She did. I'm 30 minutes in and she's literally brought it up every time its her turn to speak.

[@roymarshall_]

Its just a straight up shaming tactic. Its extremely manipulative.

[@Blackholex10]

The dumbest thing about this is they were all agreeing the entire time. They kept saying that men are to blame. Destiny agreed to this, and the other girl didn’t deny this. Destiny was saying that the women didn’t show enough agency. They also agreed to this. The reason they are arguing is because one side is labeled feminist, one isn’t, so that means fight.

[@the33rdwalrus]

What a great two and half hours of destiny trying to make his point and three people continuously talking past his point to respond to imagined points rather than what he was actually saying

[@DrevorReal]

Okay so the real hero of this debate is my man Spectre, sitting there, rubbing his two braincells together desperately trying to make a point only to complete trip over himself the second he gets the weird. Yet he keeps bouncing back, keeps trying. Good on you dude. You'll get there eventually.

[@petergregory7177]

Spectre taking the honorary lance award for this panel

[@SEVENTEENPOINT1]

@@petergregory7177 SpectreTV amiright?

[@Seinglede]

I totally agree with the lady 20 minutes in. I don't know what Destiny is on about, talking like he knows what the word "awkward" means. Like, I rememeber when I was walking down the street in the middle of the night and a guy threatened me at gunpoint and told me to give him all of my money or else he would kill me. It was so awkward. It was especially cringe when he shot me in the stomach and I nearly died in the hospital. Every night I think back to that moment and can't get out of my head how rude that guy was and how generally unpleasant I found our interaction. I don't know why he thinks me talking about my experience in this manner could be even remotely misleading.

[@LowercaseKev]

You had me in the first half, not gone lie 😂😂

[@thezikaz]

Kattee and Stabby lost the plot pretty quick and just started dogpiling hate instead of engaging in good faith. Beyond that Stabby and Katee are so disrespectful and emotional when confronted with... like.... anything.

[@Gothicah]

"You make it worse by triggering people on Twitter." - This is where we are in the world. Like omg someone said words I don't like my life is over now

[@4scot623]

I’m really feeling his pain in this one. He repeatedly clarifies and perfectly explains what his actual position is and the other panelists immediately respond with “oH sO tHaT MeAns yOu’rE sAyiNg X?” HOLY FUCKING SHIT MY GUY. My blood pressure would be way too high for this!

[@legin777]

Its the Kathy Newman interview meme all over again....

[@BRG64]

You are victim blaming!

[@werewolfasp2259]

Oh gawd! Scott Bradley is here (:

[@chance6754]

Gave me such a massive headache from how many times he had to reiterate the same exact point because apparently it was too complex to comprehend.

[@AnthonyCheeseborough]

Stabby really told on herself when she reacted to Destiny saying he believes in accidental rape. That reaction said everything I need to know.