Fender Tonestacks: A Little Bit More and a Mea Culpa

[@leightintle2940]

Hey Lyle, I love that you are more dedicated to giving good information than you are concerned with appearing less than perfect. Keep up the great work!

[@danielsaturnino5715]

Well it does make more sense now.

[@leafydog]

These are some of the most educational and interesting videos I have ever seen about music gear, or electronics in general. I've learned so much so quickly, and I'm downright inspired. You're doing a wonderful thing. Thank you.

[@joejohnson8966]

4:25 Never realized this in my life. Thank you. Never turned them all to zero

[@edwardlarose7691]

Thank you for your videos! I love your sense of humor, as well as your clear and methodical explanations of your work and why you do things a certain way. As a guitar player, and a novice amp tech/builder, I am very grateful for all the explanations you are providing. There is a lot of bad info online, but I feel like you REALLY know what you're talking about. I'm really glad your channel is growing so fast! Keep 'em coming, if you can!

[@ditchgator1]

Dunno 'bout anyone else... But this audio demonstration makes the tone stack much more understandable. But ...that said, the schematics are starting to sink in😂😎👍 Thanks for this tutorial. It is much appreciated 😎👍❤🖖

[@tomashguitar638]

I have the same amp! I think of channel volume as my gain knob, and TMB controls as three separate master volumes, each for their respective band. So instead of setting the tone pots “as suggested” and then raising to appropriate volume, I turn down eq knobs completely, raise the volume to 8 or more, and then bring eq knobs back bit by bit. I usually end up with TMB numbers reading 3-3-2-ish. This way I get more gain and compression, and fatter sound. The big deal with Fender tmb tone stack is the balance between bass and treble and you absolutely have to nail it everytime, otherwise you don’t get that phase cancellation in the middle or the famous “Fender Shimmer”. Also the bigger the numbers on the eq, the more the frequency of the middle notch is moved toward 1kHz where it really messes up with the balance of fundamental notes.

[@charlesrussell6183]

Bring on the boring fun! Your candor and precision are as refreshing as the content.

[@Tonetwisters]

What! You-uh culprit? I don't think I'd worry too much about it, what with all you give folks ... And this amp sounds fabulous.

[@unclekrampus7103]

Thanks so much! That cleared up a few things I've always had questions about concerning Fenders!

[@Noodleboy56]

Jerry Garcia who used Fender Twin reverb heads for his preamp(Macintosh amp for power)and JBL speakers(D,K,E in chronological order.) would always run his preamps with the treble @ 10, bass @ 0 and mids to taste. He would then control the high end with the tone knob. A question though(and I think you answered it here) if you run a Fender with a master volume with the master @ 10, does that effectively remove it from the circuit?

[@tedmich]

A very useful explanation Lyle, thanks! For "extreme sounds" I have an old Peavey Triple XXX (technically a Hex X?) which has 3 active tone controls that do +/- 15dB. This means you can fully cut everything and dime the power amp then CAREFULLY bring up the EQ to get bedroom level mayhem, Fletcher Munson be damned.

[@jeffmaloney8701]

Excellent. Just excellent.

[@sgt.grinch3299]

I like the tones. This amp is so versatile and balanced.

[@Jonathan_Doe_]

Check out the tone controls on the JCM800 Bass Series… Weird mid sweep thing between V1a and v1b before the volume control, then an active baxandall eq getting driven by v2a (cathode follower), then a “slope” control after v2b before the phase inverter.

[@darwinsaye]

Another thing worth noting - correct me if I’ve been misinformed - my understanding is that Fender amps have the tone stack before the preamp gain stage, as compared to Marshall’s having it after the preamp gain stage. This has a distinct effect on how the tone stack effects the preamp when pushed, ie., if you you have the bass cranked on a Fender you can “flub out” the preamp, whereas, turning up the bass control on a Marshall after the preamp stage maintains a tighter, less distorted bass.

[@jagtone]

Incorrect: In a classic Fender, the tone stack is BETWEEN the two preamp stages. The second stage is basically a recovery stage for the lossy tone stack. As Lyle pointed out, you CAN overdrive it by diming everything, but that's not where it's at for overdriven Fender tone, which is really generated mostly in the phase inverter and the power tubes. The flubbing is caused by the preamp having a lot of bass (by contrast to higher gain amps that trim the bass in the preamp), but I don't think it happens in the preamp, but rather downstream, in the power amp, output transformer and speaker. Blackfaces are less susceptible to flubbing than silverfaces because (a) they have a smaller coupling capacitor between the preamp and phase inverter, restricting the bass that gets passed on, and (b) they have better speakers.

[@martinreid1740]

I was using a Quad reverb pretty much dimed in the seventies, my strat went into MXR distortion plus, ( I still have it, script,logo but it's not working, do you fancy repairing it?) Then into a Vox wa wa and a univibe. The Hendrix sound! Anyway covid killed our gigs and I'm now retired apart from the odd acoustic gig. I really enjoy watching your videos, keep them coming.

[@jagtone]

Retired and still sporting a Quad Reverb? Woah! I'm impressed. Those things require some legit cartage. A friend of mine converted his to a head - basically, very similar to a Dual Showman Reverb, but with an 8 ohm output. He used to run it through a 4 ohm Bassman or Bandmaster cab (can't remember which, but it was louder than God), but you could even use a 1x12 cab loaded with something like a 100watt EV for super portability.

[@chrisfit]

Please do more of this.

[@dnhrage1]

Fender princeton reverb ll,does the tone stack react the same as the typical fender ,also the vintage fender 30 and the prosonic any videos or explaination on these would be great

[@pd1jdw630]

Yeah, it is fun! 👍🏻

[@toddlogan9023]

My 65’ bassmans treble and bass have insane amounts of sweep to them …if you breath on them hard it will severely alter your tone😂… but I love it

[@dominicisnthere9687]

He isn't wrong. The elect-30 course at my college (piss easy. Even counts for general Ed as science) is all it takes to understand the basics

[@Soloist1983]

When I was kid I used to think Fender amps were kind of a joke, like getting a "Sears" guitar. No one I knew played Fender amps, no groups, no players, no one. Now, come to find out that Fender amps were not just a corporate afterthought where they bought amps from RCA or Westinghouse and just slapped their name on them. There is actually a rich history of Fender amps, which is nuts. I still don't like the way the distortion sounds on them, but I am starting to understand why people study them, as they are the genesis for some of the ideas implemented in amps I actually do care about. Then again, Mesa Boogie's borrow a lot from Fender and I hate Mesa Boogie's, makes me think :D

[@richclayton5785]

Well done!

[@eddyleger7662]

Hi, such great knowledge. ??? may i please ask......i have a Katana Mk2 and a new JC120.......how to best connect them. thank you

[@qddk9545]

Start with selling the Katana - it does not sound good.

[@bugeyedmudafuka2]

What frequencies are each knob adjusting?

[@tomashguitar638]

Chech out tone stack calculator on the web, you’ll get the idea. Nothing is fixed, everything depends on everything. Treble pot raises all frequencies up to the point where it meets the zone of the bass boost. Depending on the bass and treble numbers, the mid scoop can occur anywhere from 200Hz to 500-600Hz. The lower the numbers, the lower the freq where the scoop occurs.

[@richardnagamitsu1582]

Hey, Lyle, I just discovered your channel recently and have learned a lot. I have a few BassBreaker models that I totally love. Could I pay you for a “lesson” that would help me to better understand and use these amps more effectively?

[@frankc298]

Curious what schematic tool you are using.

[@PsionicAudio]

KiCAD

[@joshbimthedoctor]

I'm gonna go turn my mids pot all the way down now. Lol

[@jpallen3673]

Thinking about getting a 6g6-B bassman head by Marsh amps . Your opinion please ?

[@PsionicAudio]

I have no experience with Marsh amps, so no opinion. The lack of photos of their work combined with the dirt cheap prices would concern me as a buyer. But maybe they are great and magically make a great product with almost no mark-up. Odds are there’s a catch that comes with that price.

[@jagtone]

I know nothing about Marsh, but that 6G6-B circuit is magical.

[@137NorthAve]

My wife will not let me play the opening guitar riff to the porch song from Deliverance. She hated the movie (one particular scene) and if I want to stay in her good graces I stay away from that riff, which I actually play well :)

[@levindenooij]

Keep up the good work Lyle, love your videos. QQ what software are you using for the schematics?

[@erajad]

This came up in the comment thread to the previous video: Lyle replied to say he uses "KiCAD". HTH

[@johnwilliamson467]

12ax7 really has low current and is very sensitive to the following stage load because of it . A limitation that can not be ignored but workable if you keep the next stage load up . Good point to limit the explanation . I would whole hardily agree how it work is far in the weed for most views . Knowing what it does will help them the most.

[@MrBallynally2]

One would think that explaining a Fender tone stack would be best by using an actual Fender schematic and possibly a Duncan TSC to show the interactions. But of course there are many online already.

[@goodun2974]

Another way to look at it ---- the tone controls don't boost, they can only cut; basically, they're shunts to ground for a certain portion of the frequency spectrum. Ditto for the "bright" and "deep" swiches; the bright switch removes bass frequencies and the deep switch removes high frequencies. The way those switches and knobs are labeled is merely marketing. You think you're getting more of something but instead you're getting less of something else! "He [Rocco] knows what he wants. Don't you, Rocco?" "Well, I want, uh...". "He wants more, don't you, Rocco?". "Yeah, that's it. More. That's right, I want more!". Humphrey Bogart and Edward G Robinson in "Key Largo". Also note that Oliver Twist didn't ask for "less": "please, sir, can I have a little less [sic] ?". There's also this: "Let's have everything louder than everything else". Ritchie Blackmore, from "Made in Japan".

[@jagtone]

The bright switch doesn't remove bass frequencies. It provides a high frequency bypass to the volume control. In effect it allows more highs to travel on in the circuit even when the volume control is shunting the rest to ground. That's why, as you turn the amp up, the bright control makes less and less of a difference.

[@goodun2974]

@@jagtone I am an electronics technician and I'm aware of this.

[@JEmilioJNava]

mía = mine mea = pees

[@f33fifofum]

Nothing worse than a floppy little pick