Fiat Dino versions.

Here we have an early Spider. So let’s take the opportunity for a closer look at what makes it different. It’s a series one car and a series one has some things that are different about it .
All a bit academic but useful to know especially if you are restoring one.

[@jacohauptfleisch935]

Thanks for explaining. Honestly thought that series 1 were 2000 and series 2 were 2400. Never too old to learn something new.

[@marksitaliangarage]

I’m sure that you were not alone with that one. It’s also the case with the 2000 Coupe but the series one has less obvious visual differences. If you watch the videos on the Coupe that I call ROMA I do cover these features .

[@svbreila]

Thanks again Mark, another thing on the 2.0 of either series is no bonnet blanket. And I know you know this and maybe not everyone else may not, but the Dinoplex came after the original cars were produced. In June 1968, Fiat came out with a Service Bulletin, #89 to retrofit the early cars. I have an early series 2 Spider without a Dinoplex fitted. Luckily I have a fully restored one with coil ready to install. Michael

[@marksitaliangarage]

Yes I think no under bonnet blanket on 2000 . Yes I have that bulletin . We are working on a theory about how the changes were made, more on this in tomorrow’s episode. When we have more information I will do another video with our thoughts.

[@tonysangwine-gould4733]

Nice to see some more Dino content, great to learn about the differences.

[@marksitaliangarage]

Glad you like it !

[@lincolncooper3024]

Thanks for sharing, invaluable information and interesting little known details

[@marksitaliangarage]

Thank you. It’s important to share this stuff .

[@yellowrat77]

As heard thru a former Fiat Motors North America exec with available knowledge from the Mothership in Turin, who acquired a S1 2.0 Coupe at the time - circa 1980. The early style Dinoplex units fitted to 1967 cars not originally equipped, but delivered new within Italy were provided a dealer installed Dinoplex unit as a service update. My late 67 S2 Coupe, brought over from Italy in 1978 is equipped as such. Thanks for the great work Mark. Keep em coming!

[@marksitaliangarage]

Yes retro fitted to some early cars. I actually have the service bulletin with the diagram for a template to assist with manufacturing of a bracket to carry the Dinoplex. The first series cars did not have the bracket fitted for factory. ROMA was not retrofitted with a Dinoplex until the 70s and consequently it was the late style fitted the small one sometimes found on the 130 .

[@stephenlmckeown1439]

You really know these cars. Extremely well presented and PC. Live long and prosper to you sir 😂

[@marksitaliangarage]

Always more to learn about this subject and the human condition ! So I guess let’s try and channel some of that mid century optimism ! Thank you and I’m glad you’re enjoying the channel.

[@shedtime_au]

Ah, if only all restorations were so straightforward. The Fiat 501C in Australia differs by state depending on what the body builder / concessionaire decided to fit, and almost all cars were imported as a bare chassis with engine and bonnet attached so the variations could be pretty wild. I just did a 1444km round trip on Friday to collect a set of 19" well-type rims because the beaded 18" Sankeys that came with my car take 730 x 130 tyres costing AU$675 each vs a mere AU$275 for the more common 5.00-19 fitted by other builders. Despite the high cost of fuel and tollway charges it was well worth the trip, the seller also had an oval shaped ground glass rear window for the canopy and a generator cover that I needed. Still setting up the shed but work should begin soon, maybe I'll start a KZbin channel to allow others to follow the build.

[@marksitaliangarage]

You should start a KZbin channel ! It’s an excellent way to document the build and will become part of the history of the car .

[@shedtime_au]

@@marksitaliangarage Both good points, and I'm sure I'll have at least one viewer. 🙂

[@mattjukes8151]

Another excellent film, Mark. Thank you 👍

[@marksitaliangarage]

Cool, good to hear.

[@MarkTebbutt-bv2qb]

First time I saw these in real life . was in Bristol. Italian day . Amazing day . Really nice lines

[@marksitaliangarage]

Yes they really are very special. I have never been to the Bristol Italian car day but have seen the pictures. Looks like it was a good event.

[@MarkTebbutt-bv2qb]

@@marksitaliangarage I was working at GKN stumbled on it . Amazing best thing ever seen my farther in law was a garage man his mate test drove for lotus in the 79,s he swap him a car for his 1750gtv Alfa . I love the Italian stuff ,Dino my fav motor

[@marksitaliangarage]

@@MarkTebbutt-bv2qb well you’re found the right channel for Dino content !

[@ianxfs]

Thanks for the new video Mark 👍🏻 Soon to lose the winter scarf ☀️🤞🏻

[@marksitaliangarage]

Yes I do hope so, it’s been an especially difficult winter. I had COVID in October and that dreadful Flu at Christmas ! But was sitting in the sun at Como last weekend and now it’s Sunny here with the birds singing.

[@ianxfs]

@@marksitaliangarage Glad your feeling on the up 👍🏻 Yes we were at Como and Milan last year….lovely part of the world 😀

[@G928...]

Nice video, I love all the detail differences of these type of Italian low volume cars of that era. I certainly recognise quite a few parts shared with the 124 spiders. Couple of years ago I had a 67 124 spider, it used the same heater panel as that Dino, I think they changed to the floor mounted levers in 68.

[@marksitaliangarage]

Yes you are correct a lot more 124 parts in the series one Spider. I think the fuse box is 124 ? The fresh air plenums change with the relocation of the heater controls .

[@user-pw3ji3rn3s]

This is excellent information. I have number 621 which I'm restoring. Its series 2 for sure. Wood rim, wood dash, black inside the engine bay. But mine came pre-Dinoplex. Its good to see the under hood padding in that video. I was really curious if they all came with them. I don't see any evidence of it on my car. In the paperwork with my car came a letter from Fiat North America in 1977 to the owner. He was looking for parts. They wrote back a nice long typed letter saying no Dino's were officially imported into America but he could get parts --but he had to supply parts numbers. I was surprised they paid so much attention to one customer. The problem they stated was that only 6 parts books existed in America and there were no photo copies. My feeling is this is why so many fell into disrepair and modifications. People couldn't get parts and just parked them or tried to use another part to keep it running. Today luckily we can, often in just a few days. Thanks again for the great content!

[@marksitaliangarage]

I’m not sure about that padding underneath the bonnet it’s certainly a different pattern to that fitted to the 2400 Spider . Which has a vertical aluminium band that retains the padding this is secured with self tapping screws. If fitted to your car you should be able to see the holes on the lower bonnet frame. Parts books can be purchased from Club Dino Italia . Using the spears number you should be able to find out what was originally fitted on your car. Dinoplex cars usually have the mounting bracket on the inner wing I thought all series two cars were fitted with the Dinoplex from factory. But as I said in the video we are still gathering information. Good luck with your restoration. Keep watching the channel and I hope that you are enjoying the non Dino content.

[@yellowrat77]

Count me among the lucky. My gracious contact within FMNA had his secretary photocopy final release 2l parts catalog, Coupe parts catalog, and the all important Specs, service, and maintenance manual. I likely benefited from living nearby the Montvale NJ headquarters. None the less, ownership was tricky. When Mike Elliot started Superformance the skies opened up, clear sailing ahead, it made all the difference. BTW I owned 636 from 87 - 07.

[@marksitaliangarage]

@@yellowrat77 It was Phill Stafford . Then Mike and Ron . That got me started with the FIAT Dino . But it was Colin Sowter who helped me turn it all into a business !

[@GGothmugly]

Thanks for confirming some of what I thought I knew. I was unaware that there were two of the black leather covered steering wheels. Also interesting is the early differences. I thought mine was an early Series 2, it's number 505. It spent most or much of it's life in Switzerland and had no Dinoplex. On the other hand it has the rounded windscreen frame, the aluminum dash and the heater controls as shown in the example shown in your film. And the fuse box, exasperatingly difficult to access, is in the passenger footwell. No courtesy light in the boot. Now I'm wondering what other anomalies may be found in my example. Nevertheless I love the thing and so enjoy the pretty noises it makes.

[@marksitaliangarage]

I would say that you have a series one car. I would think that it would be reasonable to say that the visual features of the aluminium dash and steering wheel are good points for this identification. The other changes aren’t as obvious and I think were phased in over time. This is still just a theory as research is still ongoing. I’m pleased that the video was helpful and I hope that you are enjoying the channel.

[@GGothmugly]

I think the Series 1 /Series 2 break must have been very close to mine. It does have the wooden wheel rather than the black leather version. Of course it had various life experiences before it fell into my hands and I can't be sure of what was done between its production and my acquisition. I know that it acquired a Cavallino Rampante on the grill and one on rear, now removed. And the wheel spinners got some yellow Dino badge centers rather than the correct FIAT logo. @@marksitaliangarage

[@martinclapton2724]

I thought all the 2 litre all alloy block engines all had the valve clearance adjustment via inverted tappets , i.e; the shim under the bucket. Whereas , the 2.4 iron block engines had the shim on top of the bucket , in the recess like the Fiat twin cam , all being revised by Lampredi. The Fiats , having separate cam box’s had more oil capacity around the cam areas . The oil feed to the cams seemed to come the front of the engine in the Dino engines

[@marksitaliangarage]

Just the early engines with the 3 stud carbs are lash caps . Different cylinder heads as they have a different design for adjusting the chains. The early style is lighter and more inline with a high performance application but more time consuming for servicing. The cast iron block was supposedly developed to make the engine better suited for road use. But then ended up in use for all out performance in the Stratos so I don’t know enough about how that happened. Cast iron isn’t usually associated with performance ! Now I have seen inverted tappets in a Stratos with DTC coating. The FIAT engine is a very different thing to the Ferrari 206 sp and the other race car engines that have the Dino name. Or for that matter the Tasman Dino .

[@ceessmidt6409]

Nice information, thank you, has there been a 2 litre with IRS in the back and maybe some time what information about a spider with fixed roof. In Holland we have Martin Willems, there is a picture on his web-side off a spider with a roof or is that a Moretti.

[@marksitaliangarage]

The IRS is for the 2400 only it’s the FIAT 130 unit. Possible that a preproduction test vehicle had a 2000 engine with IRS but that is just supposition . There were two Pininfarina coupe proposals a fast back and a notch back in 2000 one was later updated with some 2400 parts and I think a colour change to refresh it for the show circuit. A picture of the fast back has surfaced and looks to have been taken recently but I don’t know anything more. Moretti built various Dino styles with 124 and 850 usually in coupe style.

[@314OM]

thanks Mark a lot for your efforts. Thought Series 1 Spiders have no Dinoplex...

[@marksitaliangarage]

You are correct originally a series 1 Dino would not have been fitted with a Dinoplex. I do say that it the film but when retro fitted it would be this early type. Some cars never wear retro fitted. But it was a dealer option and I have the bulletin with the template for making the fitting bracket. Now I have seen the latest version of the Dinoplex fitted on a series 1 coupe. I think that would be because it went in for the Dinoplex retrofit a number of years later when the last model was in production.

[@314OM]

thanks a lot, then it wouldn't be sacrilegious to fit a dinoplex in a 1.Serie Spider..

[@marksitaliangarage]

@@314OM I would definitely fit a Dinoplex. But unless you have a fully functional one then I would fit the complete system from Elshout Engineering and install it inside the Dinoplex box . The system is the best available option and I have fitted it to both 2400 and 2000 . Absolutely transformed the performance and reliability.

[@314OM]

thank you very much Mark…

[@FiatDino1967]

A very informative video Mark. I have a series one Dino Spider - chassis 415 and most of what you describe, including not having Dinoplex, is correct on my car. However my engine bay, underside of the bonnet, bootlid and inside the boot space are all finished in satin black. I also noted that the boot space of the spider in your video was fully carpeted whereas mine only has a carpet on the boot floor - which I believe is correct. My steering wheel is the same as the wooden one you show. One oddity on my car is that the spinners are of the correct type but the chrome centres have an embossed Ferrari horse instead of the Fiat logo - have you seen this before? All the other badges are the correct ones.

[@marksitaliangarage]

I think it’s reasonable to assume that the series one cars are very few in number due to low survival rate. They were old cars already at the time that the last 2400 cars were built. For many years the cost of even regular maintenance of the engine was close to the value of the FIAT Dino ! It is also extremely rare for a FIAT Dino to be in original condition ! I have seen and worked on many but none have been unmolested . So very difficult to understand just what is correct. The cars in the publicity material are often preproduction cars, so even these differ from the road cars. Current research is centred around the spares number and the bulletin updates in the spares catalogue. This will show when various parts were superseded with the updated version. However, it won’t help us understand why some spiders were body colour inside engine bay and boot area. Current understanding is that some parts came in gradually, so there would’ve been a degree of overlap between a series, one car and a series 2 car. But it is a fact that changes were made to the construction of both Cope and spider Body shells this would’ve involved quite major retooling of what I call the platform Or chassis that was supplied to the coach builders. I would propose that this is the major terminating factor between what we call series one and series 2. Various parties are looking into this and collecting information and I don’t think it will be long until we have enough information to forward a very strong case for how production changes were implemented or rather more importantly when changes were made. As with all old cars, there is always more to learn, so I’m always open to changing my mind when more information is gained . I’m very happy to share this information as I think it’s important to pass on this knowledge. But my knowledge is constantly evolving. but we are getting nearer to a certainty of how these cars should be. Keep watching, and please keep commenting !

[@FiatDino1967]

I remember reading a long time ago (I don’t remember where) that Fiat were in such a hurry to get the first 500 cars completed to meet the engine homologation deadline that they were using whatever parts were available and this accounted for minor discrepancies between the vehicles coming off the line.

[@marksitaliangarage]

@@FiatDino1967 I think they were using a lot of FIAT 124 parts which was more because of lack of time to develop Dino specific parts. So sort of what they had easy access to.