Figure 4 Choke (and its pretenders)

[@123bigr]

Gifted teacher. Not everyone can explain complex moves the way he can. Thanks for sharing

[@davidteykaerts3930]

This move works 100%, in particular in real-life fighting. I've found it a little tough to apply in sweaty, no-gil style BJJ, but throw this on a drunk asshole after a knee tot he stomach...fight stopper. Feel a little bad for the uke here, but it's cool to see it thrown on nearly full force and how the dude was nearly unconscious in 3.5 seconds.

[@kallepikku4991]

Good stuff. Awesome techniques. Thanks for sharing.

[@cecchinecatch]

If you grab the arm, that's a show hold. It can work as a crank, but you have to be square to your opponent, and that leaves you vulnerable to all sort of ready counters (here, Kosta shows the fireman's carry). Think about it: if you are framing up with your hand on your opponents arm, you aren't cincing the artery on one side of the neck. It's a poor strangle.

[@dsarkissian]

Learned this from your DVD "The Lost Art of Hooking" I cannot tell you how many times have successfully applied this front choke whilst grappling. This is a devastating choke.

[@dan1ruu]

thank you so much for uploading so many of your techniques. you could probably charge people hundreds of dollars like other schools but you put them up for free. that says a lot about your character. one love from New Mexico

[@cecchinecatch]

@cygnus108 Several reasons: first, most people don't know it; second, because it's the kind of choke that is grabbed off of a snap down or a failed shot, and many MMA guys with wrestling backgrounds train BJJ for submissions, which means they are more likely to go for a guillotine choke. Both chokes can be very effective, but the guillotine isn't as tight (mechanically, it can't be), and it requires that you try to stretch the neck out. It is also easier to counter, IMO.

[@cecchinecatch]

@kommisar You described it fine the first time. I wasn't sure who you were asking the question of -- or what you wanted for an answer. No, we're not talking about a variation of the guillotine. Here, a figure four grip is used to constrict the arteries, and the blade can also be applied to crush the windpipe. You aren't directly square to your opponent.

[@nHautamaki]

@cecchinecatch Thanksf for the response. I've found that going for the wrist grip is faster and easier to get on in fact, and tighter if you remember to use your elbows. Now, going for the bicep grip feels like too much of your arm is getting in your own way. So thanks again for the great technique!

[@abbymias]

What a legend

[@cecchinecatch]

@forgefire96 The most likely thing I can think of is that you are standing square with your opponent rather than getting an angle on him, and that's leaving some space. This is, however, a very easy choke to apply once you get the components right. Make sure you have his head slightly turned; make sure you are gripping on his trap; get that angle I spoke of, and then use your weight. To make the choke even tighter, rotate the blade to his windpipe.

[@Waafa]

amazing choke, and great teacher

[@cecchinecatch]

To further expand on this move: what is shown here as a show hold is the choke off of what is lazy execution of the traditional amateur wrestling finish of a deep collar tie snap into a headlock w monkey grip, which is generally followed by a hard snap down using an outside step and either a go behind or some such method of getting a takedown. Bc the positioning is bad: as is noted you don't want to be square to your opponent. Yet somehow, this is how the move has come to be demonstrated: a bad combination of an amateur wrestling front headlock and a guillotine choke. You don't want that. You want to have your shoulder in between his shoulder blades and you want to create an angle. A set up for this move, then, is to deep wrist collar tie, snap to the front headlock, over-exaggerate the normal amateur wresting chin grab to move the head even more dramatically, then -- instead of a monkey grip or thumb block, et al, -- use a trap grab and elbow pinch. This is available off a shot where you shove the head inside, cover in a front headlock, and go from there. To compound the strangle and make it a choke, as well, turn the blade of your forearm up as you pinch.

[@Gitohandro]

What did you mean by point of no return?

[@cecchinecatch]

@nHautamaki Grabbing the wrist is a quicker choke out and makes slamming his face to the ground easier. Grabbing your bicep would make a different fulcrum/leverage and may not be possible to do as effectively depending on your physical build. They are two different types of chokes. Try them both equally to make a fair comparison.

[@cecchinecatch]

@gungfu777 The Grovit, yes. I know Tony liked to use this when he was bodyguarding because it was a nice come along, but at any time he could put the squeeze on and put the guy out. Matter of preference, I guess. I think the choke is harder to get out of, as is demonstrated here.

[@nHautamaki]

Tony, what do you think of the variation where you grab your own bicep instead of your wrist? That's always how I used to do do front chokes (with some success) but I'm interested to try this version and see if it's better.

[@cecchinecatch]

As a crank it's okay, though it will work best on somebody with no training. Grabbing the arm as a frame-up leaves too many escape routes (some of which are detailed here). We do a front face lock from this position that is similar to the choke in terms of grip. The finish position is a bit different. But again, the figure four grip shown here makes the face lock that much tighter. Try it. You can literally break teeth/ necks. We show it on Snap, No Tap, the sequel to Lost Art of Hooking.

[@cecchinecatch]

@gungfu777 Tony has trained guys who've won in UFC, Pancrase, etc. Japanese catch is a bit different from what we do; it is a hybrid of pro wrestling and shoot fighting (with some jiu jitsu and judo thrown in), and comes primarily from Karl Gotch and Billy Robinson. American catch teaches "hooks," which are less concession holds and more designed to maim and break stuff. Compare, eg., the double wrist lock as we teach it, and the double wrist lock as Robinson shows it on youtube.

[@pocketfullofstones]

I'm curious. In Snap no Tap Tony says its paramount you fight to get the choke, but the front face lock seems like it'll do the job just as well. Is it because there's a chance he could head slip out of the face lock?

[@cecchinecatch]

@gungfu777 In our video series we have Kosta (5'11" 195) put it on Brian K (6'3" 300 -- world record holding weight lifter). You actually want to move off center, making the man carry your weight. If you are leaning forward squared up to your opponent, you're leaving a couple of big escape routes. And, the more you move off center to block that escape route, the easier it is to grab up. Try it both ways. See what works best for you.

[@boneless_jiujitsu]

lol Costa's a good sport xD

[@LordNifty]

Would this be legal in the UFC? I think this might count as a throat strike, so that is why I am asking. I'm just curious.

[@cecchinecatch]

This is a very fast, very powerful choke. Here, the last two components -- turning up the blade of the left arm (to attack the windpipe) and sprawling -- aren't even demonstrated. Kosta has a developed neck; those who haven't trained to protect the carotid will go out quicker. So yeah, be careful with this.

[@KevinDillardguitar]

The hold that Robinson demonstrates from this position isn't a choke.. its a grovit.. a crank/crush.. pain compliance... I've trained with Mr. Robinson and its most definitely a crank that he's doing from this position as opposed to the choke that Mr. Cecchine is using here. Two different solutions to the riddle of the same position.

[@ramrod20042000]

Brutal stuff! I wonder why there are not any "Catch Wrestling" schools around? Just BJJ schools

[@JamesThompson-p4r]

You answered your own question. Jits flows and is effective, people don't like being cranked and it's harder in so ways to control than jits. Catch has been forgotton, vids like this are gold.

[@powerpunch2]

@cecchinecatch tony the current king of catch, I wouldnt wanna make this guy angry

[@cecchinecatch]

@kommisar Not sure what's being referenced here, but let me just say that staying square to your opponent is not a good idea.

[@cecchinecatch]

@wheelkick I believe Paulsen's book on catch has a chapter devoted to him.

[@cecchinecatch]

@gungfu777 Oh, they'll all work given the right set of circumstances, don't get me wrong. It's just that one is more appropriate as a crank, not a choke. And even then, the crank will be tighter on the trap and wrist, because you are leaving less space for the head and cinching up tight. It's simple geometry, really: the less open space, the tighter the head is controlled.

[@cecchinecatch]

@FightingTigerMan Tony learned from Stanley Radwan, an undefeated pro wrestler and strong man. What he learned he's put on video. Clips are posted here on youtube. Tony never had any desire to be a pro wrestler. Having said that, Erik Paulson just wrote a book in which a chapter is dedicated to Cecchine. People who know this stuff know Tony knows what he's doing. But again, here are the videos: decide for yourself. It really is that simple.

[@cecchinecatch]

@pocketfullofstones Well, in a street situation you're protecting yourself by putting the guy out. The facelock is great -- you can literally break the guy's teeth -- but the choke is more effective in terms of ending the encounter.

[@0713mas]

Seems like every once in a while a "new" trend or move will work it's way into BJJ or MMA. Often these techniques can be traced back to Catch wrestling.

[@antowalk]

No the shamrocks were never taught Catch wrestling they were taught submission wrestling /shooto which has catch holds but not the style of wrestling itself. Iv been training in Catch here in Lancashire UK its birthplace under lads who trained at the famous Rileys Gym and others for some months now and iv come to realise that what iv seen in the past from many of these guys is not what i thought at all.

[@LLMelvinL]

He tapped out.

[@nHautamaki]

Yes of course this is legal, hitting a guy with your bicep isn't really counted as a strike for the purposes of the unified rules, Tony just used that word to emphasize the speed you have to come in at to get the proper angle and set up to finish the choke.

[@NorthPoleXmasTrees]

Costa is the man!

[@cecchinecatch]

@gungfu777 You don't know what you're talking about. Tony's first catch instructionals came out in '97 or thereabouts. Paulsen and Barnett always recommend him. And there's plenty of "paper trails." Just because you don't know where or how to look doesn't change that fact. If you don't believe Lou Thesz, or your own eyes, then by all means go find and train your catch elsewhere. But don't be surprised when you find you are learning pro wrestling.

[@варяибрагимова-и5т]

can't he unlock grip? he's got 2 hands free

[@FightStrategistMMA]

GOT DAMN!!!

[@cygnus108]

WOW...Why dont they use this choke more instead of the regular guilotine in mma.......

[@cecchinecatch]

Have a training partner frame it up your way and have him bring his hips forward. Is he squared up with you? If so, sag, hip into him, and see if you can't pop your head right out.

[@TheRealWm]

Is this more likely to kill someone than a regular choke? You scare me when you say "a second more and he may be past the point of return". That is really fast and makes me afraid to use it I have learned the neck crank you mentioned though

[@willforrhall]

whats the difference between this and bjj?

[@oceanlindgren9540]

catch wrestling was developed first and places a different emphasis on what positions are important. theres no traditional guard in catch wrestling and works more like Olympic style wrestling with submissions. those are just a couple of the differences

[@cecchinecatch]

@gungfu777 Barnett always recommends Lost Art of Hooking, and Paulsen speaks of Tony all the time. Maybe you should have asked. Robinson, Paulsen, and Barnett all sell material through Scientific Wrestling -- a competitor of Tony's. But Paulsen, for instance, is involved with a book on catch that has an entire chapter on Tony. Statements like yours are how bad info gets perpetuated. It's a shame.

[@cecchinecatch]

@b7r7u7c7e ...he said, unblocked, in the comments to Tony's videos. Seriously. You can't make this stuff up.

[@cecchinecatch]

@gungfu777 @gungfu777 Barnett always recommends Lost Art of Hooking, and Paulsen speaks of Tony all the time. Maybe you should have asked. Robinson, Paulsen, and Barnett all sell material through Scientific Wrestling -- a competitor of Tony's. But Paulsen, for instance, is involved with a book on catch that has an entire chapter on Tony. Statements like yours are how bad info gets perpetuated. It's a shame.

[@wheelkick]

@gungfu777 What are you talking about ? Everybody knows Cecchine is the real deal. He is THE catch authority out there. I have trained in the martial arts all my life and I wouldn't want any part of this guy. Maybe with my Glock from 20 feet away. Maybe.

[@cecchinecatch]

@hector17dreams It's tools like you who give the rest of us a bad name. Tony was never trained by Lou. Lou simply recognized Tony's chops. The UFC didn't even exist in 1977 (when Tony began training). In fact, there was no such thing in the US as "submission grappling tournaments." Nobody who's ever met or trained with Tony doubts his abilities. You don't take Tony seriously? Who care? The clips are here. They stand or fall on their own. Meanwhile, who the fuck are you, anyway?

[@globe255]

Not delicate.