The Complete Evolution of Battle Systems [The Early Years]

[@FinalFantasyUnion]

Thanks for choosing to join us on this brand new journey,as we look to explore The Complete Evolution of Battle Systems! We hope you're excited for what's to come :D Thank you all again for your support with the channel, it means the world to us! We have actually just started a playthrough of Final Fantasy I on Twitch. If you'd like to join us, please follow us on: www.twitch.tv/lozzadar

[@barrybend7189]

Can't wait to hear your opinions on the Brave/Default battle system.

[@LordDarkBahamut]

ATB could alwaays fill up when u did commantes just need to change config i know it work since FF7 not FF9. I think in FF9 it was default confing in 7 and 8 u had to change it

[@not_jon_vendi]

This is such a great channel. Your origins videos are incredible and I loved this video. Great quality, great facts, and excellent presentation. I just found you this weekend and I havent stopped watching! I'm hooked

[@joexroronoa]

Ppm

[@Ryadic]

No part 2 yet? Coming up on 3 years. I just watched this and am surprised there is no part 2. I get those are the most difficult games to cover based on how complex they are. Hopefully you get to it. Enjoy the channel.

[@pokehero5327]

4 years now

[@jonversuslee]

That “You Are Not Alone” piano arrangement in the intro 👌

[@loganwilbur5131]

...and "Freya's Theme" in the outro.

[@ketchuprats8378]

“xenoblade gameplay has everyone shirtless” ah, I see you are people of culture as well

[@valentinosadventure]

Intressting. I didn't knew that in the OG of FF1 you had the "Drink" option 💪

[@shytendeakatamanoir9740]

That makes the FFV Chemist Ability a nice call back to the older days.

[@KopperNeoman]

I'm reminded of EarthBound Beginnings with Use and Eat - but there it actually was used for bread, which served as a health item and a Mark and Recall one.

[@zidaryn]

That smooth quiet You're Not Alone piano during the opening. Gives me the shivers.

[@TianaSidhe]

BLESS YOU for featuring Chrono Trigger!

[@extra4542]

As much as I loved the 7R battle system (they really nailed it), it makes me sad we’ll likely never get a turn based ATB main line FF

[@muffetmissulena6540]

That’s actually sad since games like Persona has proven that turn based games still hold up really well today.

[@ballroomscott]

I wouldn’t say never, but certainly not any time soon.

[@hornyanddepressed6805]

I guess we'll have to start playing SMT, Dragon Quest and Bravely if we want to play Turn based RPGs

[@thomaswalsh5848]

We may one day get one. I think of IX and how in many ways they went back to basics and brought back many classic/ traditional aspects of Final Fantasy right down to the story and world.

[@ERoBB1]

It's so weird to me how Final Fantasy can be so many different things from game to game, but they won't ever make a full turn based one.

[@ty_sylicus]

I really enjoyed VI and IX for classic systems. I like having characters locked into roles, making each for unique.

[@ballroomscott]

I’m on the other side with that, where characters being class locked is my worst nightmare. But what’s great about FF is that there’s something for everyone! 🙂

[@GooseGumlizzard]

that was one thing i liked about IX over VII and VIII, each character had a pre-defined "job" or "class", whereas in VII and VIII the characters all had the same abilities/spells

[@fearlesstp]

I love that you have the names and photos of the people involved in developing the systems you're presenting

[@chriswinkler284]

I never knew Squall was an obtainable character in FFT. I obviously knew Cloud was though I forget the criteria needed to get him. I like how party members on both sides celebrated whenever they leveled up during battle. It was pretty cute :) Thanks for the upload.

[@ysetiadji]

I think it's a romhack. I immediately google it, and found the exact same picture in a website called romhacking dot net.

[@FGTRTD24]

Really love the “Not Alone” rendition in this video. Such an underrated song.

[@justinbond9377]

I gotta say, your videos do an excellent job of informing us. So detailed, and it shows that you have a certain respect for the whole series. Love it. I've been playing this series all my life and love every one of them. I wish I could have been around for the original releases of 1-4. I've only played remasters. I've never heard of the "drink" menu command before

[@stepfanhuntsman5470]

Final Fantasy 3 has my favourite system. I'm not a big ATB fan I guess but the turn based with the row mechanic is just so fun to work with.

[@RasenRendanX]

Videos like this are why i am subbed. Thank you.

[@FinalFantasyUnion]

Thank you for the kind words Rasen :) ~Darryl

[@shaminabalamo525]

@@FinalFantasyUnion umm where the other battle system of x xi xii xiii xiv xv(cancelled vsxiii)

[@wangxian5473]

The modern turn based gameplay of freakin dragon quest XI felt so good

[@toiletduck9257]

I've been waiting for a battle system evolution thank you so much! Keep up the good work 👍

[@evank1246]

I love how he praises the channel supporters midway because he "only talks about FF games", but then immediately in the next section he talks about Chrono trigger. Informative content as always, keep up the good work.

[@Spookybluelights]

I'm very excited to hear you talk about XI.

[@Joff2727]

I have been watching many Final Fantasy Union videos in the last few days. As usual, everything is great. Im a big FF series fan. Keep it up !

[@Sin606]

I wasn't expecting that...I am glad you're making this!

[@shibasss]

I've been playing dq xi recently and the old school combat system feels actually refreshing

[@barrybend7189]

Bravely Default: classic Final Fantasy battle system but with a twist.

[@12ealDealOfficial]

World of Final Fantasy is the same way. Underrated game!

[@barrybend7189]

@@12ealDealOfficial Bravely Default 2 added the ATB system into the game.

[@FGTRTD24]

That’s more or less what the classic battle systems need. They don’t have to be revolutionary, but they need to be snappy and have some fun mechanic within it.

[@barrybend7189]

@@FGTRTD24 bravely default the most balanced yet broken battle system in FF history. It makes even the most basic of enemies into formidable foes.

[@thomasj.9686]

Love this vid! Love this channel! It's so annoying that I only discovered you guys a month ago. Anyway, I personally love that Final Fantasy has become a series which initially changed a only thing or two battle-wise between installments to a JRPG franchise which reinvents its combat every installment.

[@JasonX638]

Final Fantasy 9 was, and will forever be the greatest game in the Final Fantasy franchise. IMO it is tied with Chrono Trigger as the best JRPG ever made.

[@jamesmcqe9287]

Love the details! Really interesting look into all the games, I miss turn based

[@tamandatroell2892]

Fiinally.. this series of ff evolution is brilliant thank you for making it. If you're like me grew up from ff1 to ff7r you watch sqenix evolve through ff games. It's the only thing that truly links them together. It warms my nostalgic ff loving heart to see someone focused on this aspect of these games as whole. Maybe after this set of videos cause there's a lot to cover in regards to the ff rpg evolution. But maybe someone will finally tackle the ff6-ff7 connection. Cause hunny let me tell you the more I see ff7r theory the more similarities to ff6 I see. The problem is the connection is in the stories evolution since your on that topic maybe you'll go there.

[@mob31]

IIRC Squall had 255 hit stat by default that's why he doesn't miss even if he was blinded. Maybe there was no enemy in FF8 that had a high enough Evasion stat that will make Squall miss when blinded.

[@Zelinkokitsune]

With FFVIII I wonder if you could actually snake over to Super Mario RPG with it's entire Timed Hits/Timed Defense which, similar to Squall, a well timed button press would have the basic attack become enhanced or the character take far less damage from an enemy attack. The same with special attack boosting with special inputs so I wonder how much of SMRPG's DNA moved into that game.

[@C0rnvillain]

great stuff. i do gave to say that the Chrono Trigger music in the background was a nice touch. its crazy how amazing the music is in CT and CC

[@goldentype]

this really bring back alot of memory , my first game was FF3

[@kadsl123]

Why does everyone forget that if you press select during a battle in FF4, you can see a sort of version of the ATB in the form of a percentage count?

[@Sairiui]

Is that only in a specific version of FF4, or is that across all versions? (PSP, SNES, GBA, etc)

[@pheonixmmkc]

slight correction: you could swap weapons mid battle since II not IV

[@gablink5190]

how do i use DMs in FFVI? i thougth they were random! edit: i just checked, they are indeed random - 1 in 16 chance during critical status, cant be used duirng the first 26.5 seconds of a battle or if you are inflicted with confuse,zombie and another 2 status i forgot

[@cupofjoe2251]

I played snes as a kid and never saw them and i played the game alot. First time seeing a DM was in the ps1 port, blew my mind.

[@ericstaples7220]

It was really the precursor to the limit break system.

[@leonardosuarezsanchez3645]

I would really love to see how the ffXIV and XV battle systems works really cause I´ve never been able to play it. Yours is one of the best dedicated channels in the whole platform I hope you get not only 200k but 1M subs you deserve it

[@uraninezak]

There have been 2-3 update videos since this was uploaded. Did they ever address whether or not they're gonna continue this with a part 2?

[@kaidene573]

Thank you, this is helpful for looking for new games in the series so that I can understand and compare the games side by side!!

[@JimFlorrison]

Haven't played all of the early titles yet, but FFVI's combat pretty much nails it for the SNES era, with characters feeling very distinct and fun to play (I loved using Edgar and Cyan in particular). I enjoyed most battles in FFIX, it's just a shame that the overall game speed was so slow, and trance could have been handled better as a game mechanic (although it was always hype to see the transformations occur in battle).

[@emmychansuper]

Final Fantasy Mystic Quest was called Mystic Quest Legend in Europe since there was already a game called Mystic Quest, the one you North Americans know as Final Fantasy Adventure. It's debatable whenever if Mystic Quest Legend was the first Final Fantasy-game or not to be released in Europe before Final Fantasy VII. For me, Mystic Quest Legend doesn't really count as a Final Fantasy-game because it misses some elements in the Final Fantasy-series that makes it Final Fantasy. Also, my favorite combat-system in the Final Fantasy-universe has to be in Final Fantasy XII and especially the Zodiac Age.

[@etherealdreamerart]

Love the turned based combat system. FF VII Remake's combat system is the best of both worlds.

[@stefantownson7359]

ATB is so much fun I was a sucker for the Paradigm system in Final Fantasy 13 it was so gooooood you had to think on your feet fast and you really felt the pressure and adrenaline

[@RuYevon]

I personally found FF9's system very slow due to a lot of casting times and loading. But I agree it was a very well designed system otherwise and fun to play. Although not covered here the systems in X and X-2 are my favourites. X wasn't 'active time's but it was cool you could still play with time with magic, delay attacks and quick hit/ quick pockets. X-2 I think is the ultimate incarnation of ATB, with its pacy battles, cast times, chains and interuptions.

[@aaroncarsonart]

3:36 I believe that in FF1 battle turn order is randomized, not according to the agility stat.

[@ericstaples7220]

Agility was bugged in the original release. It's probably agility based in the handheld ports.

[@drgeniusphd]

Great video - I hope you make a second part soon!

[@bandit217]

28:00 about the ATB bar filling during animations... didn’t VII do that too? Then they took it away for VIII.

[@ericstaples7220]

I think it was optional in VII. You had to turn it on. And maybe only in the international re-release.

[@zidaryn]

The next one will start with FF X? Yay!! My fave FF. As for favorite battle system. Tactics takes first (but the mobile knock offs suck (ie: Alchemist Code, War of the Visions)) followed by X, IX and XII.

[@telltellyn]

The FF9 ATB continuing during actions was a terrible idea which seriously hurt that game's battle system. You end up putting in a command and it not triggering until 4-7 other characters/enemies take their actions. 90% of the time you'll have 3 or 4 characters with an action input just waiting to use their command. I love that game, but that aspect of the battle system is one of its worst qualities.

[@SeannyJay]

Loved this video!! Any idea when part 2 is coming?

[@Varg69420]

id say at this point this project has been set aside or outright forgotten, it's been almost a year

[@TheAllPapa]

Love your videos. Can't wait for a video covering summons in the series

[@Vicioussama]

FFXII was the same kinda ATB as any prior, imo. It just let you move your characters around in the battle

[@hypnometal]

So, umm… where’s the second part? I just finished watching and searched for the follow up, but there doesn’t seem to be one. Will there be a retrospective on the rest of the series?

[@elisehermann6094]

Weird question, but do you have other youtube channels? Your voice sounds super familiar, sounds like one of the Zelda theory channels I follow.

[@zimtak6418]

FFIX was definitely the best of the ATB system games, as well as one of the best FF games ever.

[@OmarO_721]

Have y’all done an origin video on Kuja yet?

[@MysticMike]

@27:57 Im pretty sure FF6 was the first FF game to have the ATB bar continue charging even when there was a summon. It just stops in menu if you have a wait command

[@zanderstigen]

Loved all the bits about 4&8

[@RasenRendanX]

this video gives me a bit more insight to why ppl love FFIX so much. thats a hella interesting batle system After i finished with FF7R i pick up FFX (and type 0 HD) cuz ppl raved about the Battle system in that game so much and i adore it so far but FFIX looks like its worth picking up for that battle system to (i know the story is beloved as well)

[@bornegamerz1180]

Ppl love ff9 for story and characters. The battle system is the worst part in ff9

[@hornyanddepressed6805]

I love the story of 9. But the battle system is slow and unfair.

[@jackwithahat8601]

FF9 is the best in my opinion. The story and characters are great, and the battle system is amazing. I don't know why people are saying that it's bad here, it's the best and it's not unfair at all. In fact, I would go as far as saying that FF9 is probably one of the easiest FF games I've played.

[@GooseGumlizzard]

battle system kinda sucks in IX

[@neoshadowdukeofgames8223]

Having played FF all my life, I would say my favorite battle system is FF9, specifically the Trances. It reminds me of how the mutants in Xmen first realize they have powers.

[@nikosagantz]

The only reason I suscribe to this channel is that I want to see the second part os this mini series.

[@householdrecordings]

FFIX's battle system always felt like the best imo. It's also my favorite Final Fantasy, though.

[@aesericho3651]

FFIX is my favorite by far, and the battle system is a part of it, but the trance system was absolutely horrible.

[@wiseguy240Winston]

Ehhh it was good but too simplistic and safe for my taste. The trance system was also a downgrade from other ff limit break styles. Trance activates on it's own with no control and the game was too easy to have 4 party members.

[@GooseGumlizzard]

IX is overrated as hell

[@GooseGumlizzard]

@@wiseguy240Winston people love simplistic and safe lol and they flip a shit if you try anything new and creative. Sad, really.

[@tiradouken2854]

@@GooseGumlizzard 9 plays alot like 6 (my favorite ff). 7 while good is extremely overrated.

[@tamerkoh]

You could actually change weapons mid-battle in Final Fantasy 3 NES as well. You can see many videos of Ninjas "reloading" Shurikens in their hands, for example. I don't remember if 2 and 1 let you do it as well, but definitely 3.

[@laylahame]

dang still no part two XD wonder when that'll come out

[@EliThePuzzler]

Another thing that FF9 did first, battle-wise, was that "Trance" also included a physical transformation. When your "Trance" activates, you get a different look; similar to Terra's Esper form (but that was more of a plot device).

[@goncaloferreira6429]

true but the designs and colours used were not great. also was legend of the dragoon released before or after ff9? i see some similarities.

[@wiseguy240Winston]

Lol that's wrong, final fantasy 9 got everything from 1-6 and trance was a special ability for Terra the main character in FF6 where she turns into her Esper form in battle with the same exact color scheme later used for ff9's trance. 6 had a better trance though because I could choose to activate it when full.

[@EliThePuzzler]

@@wiseguy240Winston Yeah, I mentioned Terra's Trance. That was story-based for one character, though; FF9's Trance was a battle mechanic for everyone. 🙂

[@scarecrow0774]

i’m torn between the time based ATB system, pure turn based system, and real time action systems. turn based and ATB will always hold a special place in my heart. i love turning on 10, 9, or 7 and just diving into the world and getting OP setting up spells and status buffs to destroy things.. but there’s something special about just slashing from foe to foe, tossing a spell on the way, then linking for a perfect link and just mopping the floor with who you’re fighting in 15. the camera needed some work in 15, but the combat system and the fluid movement was mesmerizing in that game. moving forward i honestly don’t care which of the 3 systems they choose, because they’ve proven they can do all 3 beautifully

[@aggrobernd]

Smallest of errors (sorry, i know i'm late 😅) but 9:24 is a picture of the 2019 Formula 2 Event in Monza not Formula 1

[@remyoconnor3141]

As one of the American children at that time, I LOVED Mystic Quest

[@dannorris6211]

Nice Frog's Theme cameo!

[@Bardic_Knowledge]

I feel I must admit that listening to this video I'm constantly distracted by the use of Chrono Trigger music behind the voice over.

[@atlys258]

I absolutely adored IX's battle system, it just played so smoothly. Can't wait for part 2!!

[@GooseGumlizzard]

it was so slow. Inferior to VII, VIII, or X

[@atlys258]

Yea it was slower than others, but running slowly doesn't mean it wasn't smooth.

[@drewp9819]

FFVI is my favorite

[@Moneyman49442]

Love your videos! cant wait for the next one

[@bravo075]

Nice video, but the amount of ads was painful and broke the flow of the explanation.

[@guardyangel]

Where is the continuation of this series?

[@ricardodarcangelo2437]

Reading through the comments, it's easy to see why Square have done so many different iterations of combat over the years. Everybody likes different things, and feel very passionate about what they find to be "the best". There really isn't a "right" or "wrong" answer to that question though. Trying out different things brings more people to the greatness of the rpg genre as a whole. And you never know, you might find that you like new combat systems, even if you thought you wouldn't, or you "hate" it. For me, the best a turn based game gets was the trails games, cold steel, trails in the sky, and zero. But I loved the classics, and we wouldn't have new systems without the work that classics did. I used to think that action rpgs weren't really rpgs, but I ended up trying out dark souls 2 that was given to me. I ended up loving it, and have moved on to try out everything I could in the genre. Point is, we all love games. There's enough games out there for everyone, and there's something in the rpg genre for everyone. If you want to stick to what you've always played, because that's what you know you like, that's fine. But trying out different styles of rpg could change your mind, and give you more to get immersed in. But please stop the hate because someone likes a different style of rpg than you, a different combat system than you do, different story than you do; we can all fit under the rpg banner friends. And hey, at least it's not FPS games, because those are just the worst. Am I right? Lol thanks Daryl for the great content

[@CaiusBallad77]

Squall doesn't miss because his Accuracy was 255 always, R1 just made it a guaranteed critical hit. Same for Renzokuken!

[@KutangBolong21]

Where is part 2 😭😭😭

[@Alex_Barbosa]

Gameplay is the reason I play RPGs. A great story is more than welcome, but for me the gameplay is where the real merit of an RPG is.

[@thomaswalsh5848]

I gotta go with VI all the way. There are many different ways to play the game, like focusing on stat building is optional but not necessary to beat the game. An in regards to the ATB/ battle, one of the most fun and strange teams is Umaro, Mog, Gau and Sir Thou.

[@arahman56]

Hopefully the next retrospective includes Chrono Cross, as FFXIII seems to take some inspirations from there.

[@matthewrowe2239]

Love your videos. Keep it up!

[@joshuataylor7443]

What kinds of new jobs would you guys would like to see in final fantasy? I would like an. Druid,Necromancy, or Artificer joba and how they would be like in Final Fantasy.

[@PsionicMonk]

Can't help you hit 200k already subbed :p

[@julesdalmacio2950]

What was that FF Tactics Mod that has Squall, Lightning, Tidus, et al in it??

[@carlosnieto3042]

I'd like to know too

[@carlosnieto3042]

I'd like to know too

[@redacted2873]

When is part 2?

[@rebels5785]

Excellent job as always!

[@ryanance9871]

For one of your origin stories or Evolution, can you please do the Chocobo.

[@PrettyNormous]

Not gonna lie, X-2 had the best combat of the series.

[@goncaloferreira6429]

a common opinion but i cant see it behind all the girly and siliness stuff

[@Dhalin]

Weird, because X-2's combat system is literally the same as many games before it including 4, 5, 6, and I'm fairly sure 9. It's just that the gauges SHOW you how long an action will take when in previous games it didn't. For example, if you were to cast Nuke vs Meteo in FF4, you can tell there's a stark difference in the casting speed of the spells. X-2 would show you this via a gauge. Just because the gauge isn't there, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just like how FFX's battle system is basically the same as ATB, only everybody's turns come instantly rather than there being a passage of time (and you can't wait for specific moments to input commands). The computer merely calculates who would get their next turns based on parameters just like FFT did.

[@SpaceCat1111]

You spelled Lightning Returns wrong... ...That said, X-2 is definitely second. 👍

[@sullivanmoores9264]

@@SpaceCat1111 Love seeing appreciation for Lightning Returns😁

[@SpaceCat1111]

@@sullivanmoores9264 What can I say? "God-Killer" Claire is a beast. "Army of One" indeed. Such fluid, fast, and dynamic combat. It was a joy commiting acts of monster extinction.

[@joshua42777]

Was the follow up video ever made?

[@BruceVial]

Just watching this vid now your 20k subs more than your current

[@jonathanplooij3666]

thanks for the video

[@kaziashfaqulhuq8765]

Part 2 when

[@xyzidor1171]

Thank You !

[@Deadman-ke9yr]

Love your work

[@Hacky4675]

Holy crap! I know I was subscribed, but after the announcement realized that I no longer was... hopefully KZbin isn’t messing with the algorithm again.

[@TheMightyLevon]

Wait a hot second, what's that shot of Squall in FFT??

[@Francorocco]

i really hate the ATB system, i like to being able to think a lot on my plays

[@timkimmel9935]

*suddenly realizes that the battles took so long and that they were never hard because I was a baby and played the "WAIT-time bar" system* Don't look at me, I'm a monster.

[@timkimmel9935]

@Alex Kalinin I know. I was just willfully complicit too many times

[@HCKTrent]

Where can we see the next episode in this series?

[@petrus9067]

Where is the second part ;-;

[@ego2133]

Call me a nostalgia-blinded fan all you want but I seriously miss having a main turned-based Final Fantasy game. And I know, ATB isn't strictly turn-based but you all know what I mean by that.