Finnish m/44 Prototype Blowback 9mm Pistol

[@Tunkkis]

Huh, I've never heard of this one, despite being a Finn. Thank you, Gun Jesus, for introducing this interesting piece of our firearms history to me.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

That's what I'm here for. :)

[@jaredbaker5447]

I hope one day we get to see a picture of the collection this mysterious person has, because they seem to have every obscure weird pistol known to man

[@MoreBrainz]

I know right. Semi auto pistols are my favorites and all my favorite episodes are in front of that brick fireplace. So it's got to be the same collector.

[@ArcturusOTE]

Inb4 the fireplace collector is a former contractor who travels across the world analyzing and advising on firearms designs

[@Agentcoolguy1]

Pretty sure the fireplace is a green screen.

[@mrb692]

Yay! The “Fireplace Collection” continues!

[@VeraTR909]

That person must have an unbelievably extensive collection, just awesome.

[@catbox7958]

Mirodin and an unbelievably large fire place

[@mrb692]

Robert L, Nope, Ian’s collection is reserved for an “Oh geez I’m out of content and need something to film” moment.

[@foleymaj]

3:29 Finnish military nomenclature regarding small arms has three parts in it. First the caliber, then the weapon type and finaly the year of adaption OR model name. With Finnish manufactured guns it's always the year of adoption, with foreign produced guns it's either the year of adoption or the model name. Some examples: 7.62 RK 62 (RK=Rynnäkkökivääri=Assault Rifle) 7.62 KK PKM (KK=Konekivääri=Machine Gun) 7.62 TKIV Dragunov (TKIV=Tarkkuuskivääri=Precission Rifle) 9.00 PIST 2008 (duh, pistol and this one is actually Glock 17) No idea why some foreign weapons have model designation and some have the year of adoption.

[@JulesVonBasslake]

I wonder, why did the army/defense force / whatever they want to be called this year mark precision rifles with TKIV and not just TK and keep the two letter pattern for rifles going... I can't think, at least not off the top of my head, any other type of weapon that would get designated TK, especially over sniper rifles.

[@coolspruta]

Tornikanuuna = Turret cannon (coastal artillery)

[@JulesVonBasslake]

@@coolspruta I mean, the fact that it's given to tornikanuuna doesn't explain why our army / defense force gave the TK marking to it over giving it to the tarkkuuskivääri. I feel like it would have made more sense that way, and they could have given tornikanuuna a designation like TKAN instead... Only reason i can think for this is that TK was already established as meaning tornikanuuna and it would have made the database a mess to switch it over to tarkkuuskivääri... Just my thoughts on it...

[@foleymaj]

@@noth606 You might be right, I took those designations from the "Kevytasekäsikirja 2019" and that has an Army stamp on it instead of the FDF one. Though I wonder if things have changed in the last 20 years...

[@Finwolven]

@@JulesVonBasslake TK 130 is the definition for fixed-emplacement 130mm turret cannons for coastal defense. I used to serve in a coastal artillery fort that had five of them in dispersed, camouflaged emplacements all over the island. That's why. TK = TorniKanuuna = turreted cannon.

[@Taisteluhamsteri]

You actually pronounced that name quite well. I totally understood that. Thank you for great work!

[@joonajokiniemi2581]

No joo, kyllä se meni ihan hyvin.

[@alexk2418]

Ian taisi käydä Suomessa pari kertaa. Pani kielimuurit matalaksi koskenkorvalla...

[@jeff3784]

That moment when a makarov and a TT tokarev make babies.

[@neutronalchemist3241]

It's more like an affair between a Tokarev and an Astra 600.

[@robgoodsight6216]

hahahahahahah

[@Isaac-ho8gh]

@@neutronalchemist3241 true xD

[@GinSoakedBoy]

Haha. Was just thinking the same thing.

[@stuartnsharpe]

This is an aesthetically pleasing pistol IMO.

[@r5cpt]

I strongly agree, but I am hopelessly biased. Still, considering how little time it took them to design it, it's a solid result.

[@Myyra-games]

C'moon Ian, as finnish person i enjoy greatly when foreign people try not to butcher our words but still do :D I was dissappointed when you skipped VKT (Valtion kivääritehdas). :(

[@JulesVonBasslake]

Kivääritehdäs käy enempi järkeen mitä konetehdas jota jostain syystä itse ensiksi ajattelin VKT:n tarkoittavan...

[@Myyra-games]

@@JulesVonBasslake Kyllä se on Kivääritehdas, ei kone. Googleta vaikka :)

[@JulesVonBasslake]

@@Myyra-games Uskon kyllä, jostain syystä itsellä vaan tuli ensiksi konetehdas mieleen :P

[@logicaredux5205]

Stand clear people! Unpronounceable Nordic Elf-talk in progress here. Someone dig up Tolkien to translate!

[@natpeterson8856]

ok now im beyond confused here

[@MoreBrainz]

Every time I see you in front of that brick fireplace I know it's a going to be a good episode. I'm so jealous of whoever the collector is that owns all these awesome semi auto pistols.

[@raiazh7724]

Ian: The trigger assembly is a yoke. Trigger assembly: Am I a yoke to you.

[@onsesejoo2605]

I read a test in a technical magazine in the 70's. I remember it stating the same problems you mention here. The empty cartridges were bulged and thrown out really hard suggesting too early opening for the bolt.

[@Ethnarches]

Always great to see guns from my own country. Hadn't heard about this one before, thanks for the video Ian!

[@Teknokraatti]

Finland had a whole boatload of rather obscure military design projects from all areas of warfare going on, with varied but usually rather unconvincing results.

[@Ethnarches]

@@Teknokraatti Thanks Miska, I should look into those! Hopefully we'll see some more of them on the channel, assuming that some of them were manufactured in any quantity.

[@Teknokraatti]

When I said from all areas of warfare, I really did mean it. Ian is unlikely to feature some of the most bizarre ideas simply due to the fairly established focus of the channel. For example, late continuation war Finland was developing 2 wooden propeller fighters, namely 'Pyry' and 'Myrsky'. Ilmailumuseo might have a prototype or parts thereof. Another one is the experimental 114mm HEAT shell developed for the rather disastrous BT-42 assault gun. Of equal interest but higher success was a brilliant make-shift electric primer system for French mid-19th century artillery that didn't work otherwise. War time didn't have the monopoly of odd things either, the 'Väinämöinen'-class coastal defense ships were an almost unheard of ship type and were of dubious inherent military value, though the soviets did pour inordinate amounts of aircraft to try to sink them, potentially giving them value as good distractions from squishier targets. Another naval oddity is the mini submarine 'Saukko', which to my knowledge remains the only Eurasian submarine that has received orders to be deployed for combat operations in a lake, even though this, too, was canceled.

[@Ethnarches]

@@Teknokraatti ah right, I realised that you meant more generally after posting. I'm actually familiar with most of them and have seen the parts of the plane in the museum. I think they are restoring one of the planes, although I don't remember which model it was. It was the later one if I remember correctly. Thanks again for the information in any case! By the way, do you know if there were any other prototype small arms that didn't reach production from that time period?

[@villepore7013]

@@Ethnarches There was the lahti L-41 belt fed light machine gun

[@Govanmauler]

The Finns have fantastic design style . That's a gorgeous pistol.

[@braindeaddipshit9801]

Have to fight the soviet in style perkele

[@LilPistachiofr]

@@braindeaddipshit9801 totta vitussa

[@ArktinenPeikko]

Learned something new today. I thought i had pretty good knowledge of Finnish firearms (being a Finn myself), but for some reason i had never heard of this one. Thanks, Gun Jesus! =D

[@topwashgod6570]

A very sexy pistol in my book.

[@r5cpt]

Incredible they managed to design this gun basically from scratch in such a short time.

[@mazkact]

When a 1903 Colt and a Tokarev love each other very much.

[@waltlars3687]

The cam lock holding the wood grip panels on is very clever much cheaper than drilling and tapping 4 holes and add 4 more parts like in a 1911A1

[@Jimijaz]

‘Scuse me while I whip this out... *pulls a Lahti out of nowhere*

[@zendell37]

I can't wait for future reference material to quote the comments section: "most of the information gathered about this particular firearm comes from the 'fireplace' collection".

[@alhei525]

Much appreciated! At last a Finnish made gun I've not heard of so far. Even though I'm Finn myself and keen on military history.

[@alhei525]

Once more the forgotten weapons channel really lives up to it's name, I'd say.

[@rautavaara9194]

Birger Linkomies had a Swedish first name and a Finnish surname, so not the easiest to pronounce. By the way, the surname translates to "sling man".

[@Janduin45]

When he first said that name I was like "oh strange name, must be irish or something". Had to rewind to hear it again when I realised the dude had suomi power in him.

[@banaana1234]

@Lassi Kinnunen But linko on its own pretty much always means the weapon.

[@rautavaara9194]

@@banaana1234 @Lassi Kinnunen I agree: I'm pretty sure he was going for the weapon. After all, this is like a hundred years ago.

[@poika22]

A snowblower is a lumilinko. Juicers are mehulinko etc. Linko in modern engineering might mean a centrifuge but the word on its own refers to slingshots. Linkomies is a modern name as described in the comment above but the word linkomies could be used to refer to a historical slingshot soldier. The slingshot was a widely known weapon mentioned in the bible so it's possible it was used for hunting purposes in the area of modern Finland but it was never used by any organized army in Finland. Also any army in Finland prior to 1917 would use Swedish or Russian as the command language so they wouldn't have used the term Linkomies. Linko itself comes from the German word Slingvön (possibly through Sweden). German was the other academic language besides Latin in Finland prior to the Fennoman movement, a tradition inherited from the time of Swedish rule pre-1809. I don't know for a fact but I'd venture a guess the word linkomies (slingshot man) was invented when first translating academic books of ancient cultures that used the slingshot as a weapon to Finnish in the 1800s-ish. Long before electric centrifuges or Finnish-language knowledge and naming conventions for electrical engineering existed. Birger Linkomies himself was born Birger Flick.

[@jacoblucas4259]

That's a handsome pistol right there.

[@tsiparGehT]

Thank you for expanding my knowledge on older firearms I've never seen before.

[@Mothdir]

Love learning about Finnish gun history, not a very common habit here. The owner has to be a serious gun collector, I hope to see more of these featured.

[@loupiscanis9449]

Hi Ian , Thank you for uploading ,

[@ThatOneFriendlyDude]

Damn, I’m here early. Time to learn a thing about something I’ve never seen before. Nice.

[@Ditendo64]

After this I'm sure we will all be learning about old military MRE's, nice!

[@kenhelmers2603]

Cool, thanks Ian

[@jarinorvanto4301]

Very interesting story. The gun shares the looks and some features with some other great pistols from around that era. The slide looks elaborate, but the frame cheap. The externals look finished while the inside of the frame is crude. The grip panels are rather costly. The gun looks like a mix of Makarov/Stechkin and Sig P210. The removable trigger unit and yoke lever is quite similar to the Sig P210

[@john-paulsilke893]

Hi Point would like to disagree with you about upper pressure limit for blow back pistols. They believe 9mm is where pressure starts getting interesting. .45, .40 and 10mm seem to work just fine. 😊

[@dbmail545]

Practical limit rather than absolute limit. 9x19 is the energy where a locked breech pistol is lighter than a blowback design. Those blowback 9's and 10's are pretty bulky.

[@rwbimbie5854]

45 is a low Pressure caliber, but significant boltforce Blowback is just a matter of Mass and how much you are willing to reduce mass by increasing Spring. Use a 150lb anvil for a 9mm slide and you barely need any spring at all

[@svtirefire]

Yeah, but a hi-point slide is a 13 pound brick of zinc.

[@Falcon-15]

Is That ‘that’ fire place again. If so This guys collection must be huge.

[@doctoreff1]

Jaaah zooooh Tokerev style grip locks and fire control group!

[@Niinsa62]

Never heard of this one. But it looks cool, in the "we need a pistol right now and we don't have time to make anything fancy" kind of way, Too bad they ran out of time to get it into service. Well, I'm not complaining about the war ending too soon. But still, a nice looking stop gap gun. Very nice looking.

[@kurbanica]

So, basically this is a blowback TT-33

[@nerofoxkrell]

The three dislikes are from Soviets

[@juhomaki-petaja]

nero krell The ones whos grandfather got shot by finnish 9 Parabellum.

[@Finwolven]

Nah, they're from the old FDF officers who weren't allowed to purchase one of these guns in the 60s.

[@cheesenoodles8316]

I see an Astra 600/43 with a T33 fire controll group. Aside from freakishly rare Fin WII pistol. The recoil buffer is cool.

[@toolthoughts]

I didn't dare to hope for this. Too cool! What's the story of this example, how did you get your hands on it? Linkomies pronunciation wasn't bad. He changed his name from Flinck, and wrote on firearms at least as far back as in the 20s and after the war for the Military Museum's (f. Sotamuseo) publications.

[@hamm6035]

I found myself thinking of the FEG M37 when you disassembled the Fin /44. Where I know they are not the same there was something in the kinda like this feeling. Weird, just really brought that to mind.

[@immimm9586]

PERKELE!

[@juhomaki-petaja]

I mm I mm SAATANA

[@BigFrakkinOgre]

Thanks

[@chapiit08]

The design is apt to incorporate a gas delay system built into the slide.

[@geodkyt]

It's a TT-33, only blowback instead of Browning swinging link! Down to the grip attachments!

[@Mamiya645]

Armistice agreement was like "Sorry for beating your asses so bad" :

[@wryyyy]

On the subject of rare Finnish firearms, I found a Lahti designed Anti-Air machine gun just casually sitting in a local museum here in Finland. i.imgur.com/bShFSyn.jpg Gun had no description what it was, and I was clueless as well, until some in depth internet sherlocking around, found some info on it. Next time I visit the museum, I might ask the staff if they are aware of the guns rarity, as some sources claim fewer than 300 of them were produced. Also, that exact M/44 was totally on auction at James D Julia back in 2014.

[@The_Annoyed_chef]

All small arms and even 12,7 NSV in Finnish military service are named with their caliber in millimiters.

[@calvingreene90]

So if you have one that you want to shoot get light loads or add a little silver solder where it won't conflict with other parts.

[@fallout1953]

I thought Ian was *finnished* covering Finland's guns ;)

[@robgoodsight6216]

hahahahahahaah

[@Valtremors]

and the entirety of Finnish population just sighed in unison.

[@BSOE3058]

ಠ︵ಠ

[@fallout1953]

Valtremors With the "tonnin seteli"-expression.

[@Valtremors]

@@fallout1953 Pretty much...

[@weeg91]

That is one big fireplace

[@onetwo5519]

THX Mr. gun jesus

[@jerryjohnsonii4181]

Very interesting 9mm Sir

[@DD-uv6rp]

Interesting how new designs like the sig 320 are basically re engineered from very old design combination. Like the trigger group here and browning blowback design

[@handlmycck]

You are the irl gun jesus. Greetings from finland

[@Frob25]

Just when i think we have seen the last of the mysterious fireplace gun collection, BAM, another one, lol.

[@Itapirkanmaa2]

There was no WWII treaty that would have forbidden arms development. I wonder where on earth that came from?

[@My-Name-Isnt-Important]

Looks better than the Soviet Makarov, which clearly took a few ideas from this pistol. Those grips look like what the Makarov would later use.

[@ALRinaldi]

I just finished watching on Full 30! Time for viewing #2!

[@brunocarmo6974]

cool looking gun

[@geodkyt]

I really like the way it looks. Too bad they didn't have enough mass to delay opening.

[@oneproudbrowncoat]

Widen the slide, and this could still have been just fine.

[@johnplayer3093]

You're cycling the slide with ease, I'm surprised the recoil spring isn't stiffer. Is it safe to use?

[@Yupppi]

I'm not sure what the name was but it sounded like Burger... Linkomies? I assume the first name isn't what you said because it sounds funny. The surname was close enough, although I thought you said Linkomings, but I'm bad at listening anyway :) Actually it turned out I had hard time finding finnish literature on this pistol online (actually only one short article), but managed to confirm the designer's name as Birger Linkomies, so you were very close, the name was recognizable! Birger is very rare name so no wonder I couldn't figure it out. Thanks for the video, it turns out to be important since there's not too much info on this one. Some trivia from the finnish article was that apparently the designer used to be named Birger Flick and that VKT required a number of changes before accepting to manufacture even a test batch. The biggest being the shape of the slide and its manufacturing process, but they at least took some opinions from Linkomies about the changes being made. The artillery inspector decided to originally make an order of 5000 pistols so I suppose that explains the serial number format. VKT planned a price per item to be approximately 900 finnish marks for 5000 pistols, but if they managed to continue the serie until 10 000, the price per pistol would only be 675 marks per item. They had to add replacement parts to the manufacturing costs, but they somehow ended up to 770 marks per pistol when manufacturing 5000 pistols (these numbers were slightly different in other source though). In the end, when all the manufacturing units were busy, VKT ended up making 10 to 20 test batch (you found out there were a couple more). It was also originally called M743. I also found it to be interesting that this was one of the first guns made in Finland that weren't made mostly by turning and only a few parts were turned anymore. The test shootings implied the recoil was way too high to bear and the material strength was also a concern, if the body would break. There were also some problems with loading a bullet and removing the case. I think judging by your video, you found out at least most of these things if not all of them. Here's the source I quoted anyway, by Andy K pyssyjahti.wordpress.com/2017/04/03/pistooli-m44-ei-paassyt-koskaan-sarjatuotantoon/ . Note that the article doesn't have any source references, but it does match to your story.

[@r5cpt]

Hyvä Suomi!

[@yuhaz]

thx

[@thetriode]

I'd really love to see some of the brass out of this with full powered 9mm. Not a lot of confidence.

[@QuasiTraction]

I could never afford it, but, it'd be a neat one to own.

[@worldtraveler930]

It does make one think just how much it influenced the Tokarev?

[@hobofactory]

Considering the Tokarev was already out a good while before this, I’d say not a lot...

[@rabot8837]

Wow! That is a rare pistol, one of 25. I wonder hot it got into US?

[@dongilleo9743]

This is an interesting pistol I'd not seen or heard of before. I can see this as a parallel to the Finns development or borrowing of the Soviet PPSh-43 design to create their own KP-44 submachine gun, in order to build more weapons faster and cheaper to meet the desperate wartime need. I'm wondering why they put so much effort and time into trying to design a new pistol, instead of just copying a pre existing model(maybe the German P-38?). Given the already mixed lot of handguns Finnish troops were carrying, from Lahti pistols, captured Soviet pistols and revolvers, and various German guns, wouldn't the addition of yet another gun have complicated things even more? Did these pistols at least share the same magazines as Lahti pistols, providing some interchangeability?

[@AlexS-zr2nb]

So nothing will make a Soviet shit quicker than seeing a well made pistol?

[@juhomaki-petaja]

Alex S And in hand of finnish soldier safety removed

[@thelonerider5644]

The Finnish on that gun is excellent...

[@widgren87]

For some reason the look of that gun reminds me of the Stechkin pistol...

[@oneproudbrowncoat]

I've seen that trigger bar disconnect before...

[@danieljackson5845]

Old school hi point

[@Scootman]

I'm not sure I could see that weld. Can you zoom in a bit?

[@Maedelrosen]

the suggested videos at the end of this one were about bears

[@chubbycatfish4573]

Prototype? Maybe they should Finnish the pistol...

[@Finwolven]

Sadly, the prototype got Sovieted instead. As you know, in Soviet Russia, Pistol Prototypes You.

[@spairus4492]

Looks like you've been holding onto this video from the same day last year

[@Gieszkanne]

9x18 is the upper limit for blow back design.

[@aperson3963]

I've searched the online Finnish archives and still can't find any information on it or schematics. Where would you find that?

[@Hyper_Fox06]

Would a modern gunsmith be able to modify or replace parts to eliminate the cartridge bulging problem?

[@Salesman9001]

Yes. Modifying 1/25 existing examples of a firearm is full on heresy and shouldn't be done. Modifying would involve weights added to slide or new thiccccer slide. Almost any gunsmith could do it.

[@Arrowdodger]

They're fit to the Finnish 'cause they eats their spinnach!

[@mordecaieagle4240]

@Lassi Kinnunen Replace the butter with margarine and it is accurate

[@sirboenoe5781]

Wondering why they added a number to the serial number after 009 and didn't just continue with one zero in the beginning

[@ForgottenWeapons]

It's not uncommon for a serial number plan to be something like double zero prefix for a first prototype batch, single zero prefix for trials guns, and then regular numbers for regular production.

[@samdavies1752]

Why didn't militaries make revolvers? Surely the whole frame of the pistol can be cast with low tolerances, and the cylinder, really the only machined surfaces need to be the inside of the cylinder and the inside of the barrel?

[@B52Stratofortress1]

That's probably the reason that the Soviet Union continued producing the Nagant revolver until 1945, even with the Tokarev available and in production.

[@demonprinces17]

6 vs 7, or more magazines

[@JulesVonBasslake]

On a quick google search i can't find much info on this Birger guy... Apparently Birger is his first name and his surname was Linkomies, but even then i can't find much info on the guy. Seeing as he changed his name to Linkomies from Flick, it seems that he may have been an immigrant of some kind... Dunno, hard to find any info on him.

[@rautavaara9194]

It's more likely he was born with a Swedish family name and he Finnicized it as many Finns did in the late 1800's and early 1900's (see: Fennoman movement).

[@unclebuns5286]

Thanks for showing me sexy guns, I really appreciate it

[@spikbebis]

I certainly enjoyed this, what a rare piece from my "neighbour".

[@17hmr243]

dose anyone know a video on the challenges of machine any slide all the steps in grooves how did they do they tool for that wracking my brain on some parts dont see how they can

[@neutronalchemist3241]

It seems like the story of Glisenti 1910 and Beretta 1915.

[@samcongdon9155]

Nice

[@mazkact]

Finished in Finland at the finish of the Finnish/Soviet Union continuation war. They were to Russian to Finnish. Suomen Sisu

[@dudemcguy1194]

Aaand another very cool and interresting vid! I know its not a forgatten weapon at all but can ya do a vid on a real swiss military issue sig 550 (stg 90) ( full auto shooting included :D)? im very courious bout your opinion bout my servicerifle^^ thx a lot for your good work and keep it up it will be appreciated widely! best regards form switzerland

[@cheesenoodles8316]

Groves in frame n barrel remind me of Astra 600

[@wizardofahhhs759]

Another Browning inspired pistol. Looks like a larger version of a COLT pocket hammerless.

[@JOPAGalvin]

What would be the approximate auction price?

[@pikeywyatt]

On a similar subject ,have you ever seen a 1941 Australian Owen gun ?

[@JosiahSiegel]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/o56kmpqun7aVqqc

[@pikeywyatt]

@@JosiahSiegel Thanks for the link.

[@sharonrigs7999]

Unless it is a brick like Hi Point, a 9x19 direct blowback feels kinda sketchy. Especially a WW2 Era pistol

[@williamsager805]

I wonder what the lifetime would of been for that ejector wire spring?

[@Kaboomf]

Eh, the HK G3 has a wire spring for its extractor. I'd say that's far from the first failure point here.

[@Finwolven]

'Enough'. Also, it's a wire spring for easy replacing when worn.

[@Hobgoblin1975]

How many rounds in the magazine ?

[@sirjackbone]

This is all very much like my tokarev

[@Scardpelt]

Boom