Firearms coatings and finishes. Does DLC underperform?

[@kubikariYOU]

Good video, great guest. Thanks for the information.

[@lenholt7419]

Cannot tell you how many discussions I've gone through about the hows and whys of coatings. To me 2 things stand out here. Hard Chrome and DLC. Both need proper preparation when used. In my limited experience with DLC as a "Driver", the finish is amazing. It is not a perfect finish by any means but man is it something else. Its tough, slick and wears remarkably well. Great information Ray, Tony. Thank you.

[@XRING]

Thank Len! It is good to hear from you. I hope you have been well.

[@accunutoutdoors2717]

Very informative video! I have a much better understanding of what to look for in coated firearms moving forward.

[@XRING]

Thanks accunut and thank you for watching the channel.

[@Slinkslinkslink]

Every video I see tony in - I automatically watch.

[@ShaneWasserman]

This was such an awesome video. Very interesting and informative. It’s crazy how coatings and materials differ so much from one to the next. I’d love to see more videos like this, preferably with some extra B-roll of the pieces as you’re talking about them. Keep up the incredible work!

[@XRING]

Thank you Shane! I appreciate you watching and we will do more videos in the future.

[@mrbullsh1tter]

Thank you 2 for the info on coatings. So much knowledge between you 2 is amazing. Thanks for sharing.

[@Sagittariustoo]

One of your most interesting and informative videos, Ray. 👍🏼 I appreciate it, greatly!

[@sjohnson1776]

Very interesting content Ray and Tony. Thanks for sharing. Back in my working days I was way down in the weeds on certain adhesive and coating systems. This discussion took me back. Good stuff!

[@dmweimer1]

Great video. Very informative.

[@gamalielortiz7475]

Learned some new things, thanks gents! 👊🏽

[@dtmelanson]

Super informative. Thank you.

[@erickdeetonsr.7200]

The DLC on my Volquartsen Black Mamba works flawlessly. It’s been working great for the last 2 years.

[@hopewilliams6705]

I have a DLC faxon hellfire slide and it's holding up really well so far it's surprised me

[@erickdeetonsr.7200]

@@hopewilliams6705 The same for me. I use mine quite often for Steel Challenge Matches, and I tried a different mfg, non-DLC, and it’s a noticeable difference.

[@rodneypearson6986]

Thanks for the informative video Ray and I hope you and Anthony have a great new year ahead !!

[@coltcomphbar]

Rainman of coatings 🔥

[@NickMaiers-hg3de]

Great video! I'm a big fan of the Tenifer Glocks, have a few, don't see them out in the wild very much anymore.

[@nicofanclub974]

Super informative and well presented. loved it

[@craigvincent2439]

A good example of a place that DLC works well in is gudegon pins in diesel engines. The substrate is a tough steel alloy with a mirror-like surface finish. Virtually eliminates gudgeon (piston) pin wear and the small end bushes last longer.

[@Parabellum8]

Great video, informative. I personally have never had an issue with toy guns. My son loved them growing up. I think that the problem is when real guns are made to look like toys. Shooting is a sport, not a game. Love your channel 😊

[@SiliconeSword]

Awesome video, good to see all this stuff in one go

[@chandlerjohnson8229]

Great video! Do wish nitriding was discussed more.

[@mickeyreefer4212]

I love you guys. So much knowledge. Make more together.

[@MrCyaun1]

Does Tony live in a castle ?

[@XRING]

Pretty much! 😃

[@Leadmining44]

Great information Ray. Happy New Year 🎉

[@chaoticcaninejb]

The application of the finisher almost makes more of a differnce then the coating itself. Ive seen some applicators of cerekote that were incredible and others after shooting a magazine the cerekote flakes off in sheets. So many methods, coatings etc. The prep work as tony said is so incredibly important then the application of coatings as well.

[@olamorken]

Thank you Ray for all the great videos in 2024, I learn something in every one. Take care and have a great 2025. Greetings from Norway.

[@jaysmith9496]

For the bearing surfaces on my firearms (bolts/bcg) for rifles, slide/barrel for pistols I love a quality DLC but the quality of the process as well as the surface prep is very very important. If polished thoroughly beforehand, it’s stupid slick. And if you have polished DLC riding against polished DLC, I find this to be the smoothest scenario possible. This said, I’ve also seen many that were done horribly wrong

[@coal_tactical]

very informative information

[@jodygucwa8892]

A video on the actions, scopes, and barrels the top NRL 22 and PRS shooter are using and the gun smiths they use would be a great video.

[@evanacey1414]

DLC is a type of PVD coating.. As is Titanium Nitride, Titanium Carbonitride, Aluminum Titanium Nitride, etc. What is great about all PVD style coatings is that they go on so thin that they eliminate the necessity to compensate dimensionally for their added thickness. Additionally, they go on so thin that whatever surface finish was applied to the underlying substrate prior to coating persists after coating… Which is how you get that two tone type of DLC finish on knives and guns where you’ll have a matte or “blasted” finish with mirror polished flats..

[@aaron.from.winchester6744]

Thanks for going thru each kind of coatings guys. I think I’ll just stick with my BCM parkerized bcg. However, I would be interested in the fully chromed bcg’s like in the original M16’s.

[@ferebeefamily]

Thank you gentlemen for the video.

[@pm-sv9kh]

Thanks Toni

[@nathanwhite5602]

Great job on the video

[@armorers_wrench]

Quick "shop math" lesson for those among you who have never worked in manufacturing. I believe this will help people understand what is being discussed. .001"="one thousandths of an inch" .010"="ten thousandths of an inch" .100="one hundred thousandths of an inch" .0001"="One ten thousandths"--this is kinda confusing as it sounds similar to "ten thousandths of an inch" i.e. .010" We measure in thousandths so we speak in thousandths. Most people would see .1000" and say "one tenth of an inch" but anyone who is in manufacturing would think .0001" when someone says "one tenth". Most of the time .001" is shortened to "one thou" or "a grand" and .010 would just be "ten grand" or "ten thou". .0001 is one tenth of one thou. The thickness of a human hair is .001" on average. Hope this helps, -Your friendly neighborhood machinist/tool maker.

[@XRING]

This was a great comment and one that I often take for granted. We are so used to dealing with really, really small increments our terminology is different from what most people use for sizing. A “tenth” to us is not the same as .1. 👍🏼

[@dustinshaw2419]

Great video.

[@kensmith8832]

I have found a can of spray paint will last about 4 years as a finish for a knife and AR. Anyone that uses 6063 or 6061 aluminum is asking for issues, as those allows are very soft. They are standards in extrusions. A good aircraft allow is 2024 Aluminum, not 6061. Many of these allows need to be plated to get a consistent finish, depending on the forming methods of the part. If you are worried about a BCG wearing out, have one made from 301L stainless steel. If you are a collector and never use these items, the finish doesn't matter. It is funny, as a nitride heat treat was a common final treatment of die bearing areas. It was super hard and only could be cut with diamonds.

[@bnicedanicest6288]

Cerakoting over hard coat III is the only best way to go I do my own cerakote on my firearms and scopes if you carry your firearm around a lot with bino packs and backpacks hunting walking running around, your rifle especially around the hand guard and magwell will eventually rub through to original surface and expose bare shiny metal if not anodized underneath I despise that with a passion I have parts like hand guards from heavy uppers like Aero Precision 6.5 CM w/ .936? @ gas journal that weighs to much to carry around hunting they were factory Cerakoted baked on lowers to and the areas with high amounts of handling and rubbing are bare shiny metal all my scopes lowers and hand guards I personally cerakoted that have fell over leaning it against a cliff trying to climb up a mesa or down into wash and scraped the rocks just show the black anodizing underneath like high wear areas around the magwell and trigger areas which I totally prefer, none of these coatings will last continuous rubbing over time especially with weight or pressure applied in architectural coatings its analyzed/measured in SCRUB cycles as well the thickness is measured in mils wet/dry what the wet coating will dry down to in mils I only use the C- series Cerakote which lasts and has out performed any of the factory applied baked on cerakote in my experience for my use cases I come from a coatings background and had to have warranted substrates as per specifications that I have applied high performance coatings to yeah this convo would be pretty boring to those listening outside the arena of coatings like watching paint dry 😂

[@boss350z5]

This was great.

[@patrick014]

When I built my rifle, I used titanium nitride on the action and bolt, then went back over it with DLC. Going on 3700 rounds, it still just needs to be wiped with synthetic cleaner and a rag.

[@KSIXRIDER]

CVD(CHEMICAL)=DLC coating PVD(PHYSICAL) TIN coating. We did a ton of testing in the motorsports world with coatings and Tony is 100% correct. Prep work is paramount and not all coating companies are the same.

[@hamedizzy5137]

PVD does well for me!

[@SiliconeSword]

In my experience black nitride and chrome are pretty solid. I see all sorts of crazy coatings on milling bits and carbide cutters that I always wonder about for other things. Seems like machining tools get the new stuff first and guns/knives are a bit late to the game

[@michaelhenn4124]

Great video… very informative. Have to ask… what was in the glen cairn?

[@ll85uk]

@6.31 when Ray starts talking about cerakoting can someone tell me what the main colour on the Cobalt kinetics rifle is please?

[@XRING]

That was a special edition run of 4 rifles. I have no idea what the base color we used for that but I will check with Wayne to see if he remembers. 👍🏼

[@ll85uk]

​@@XRING Thanks 👍

[@cliffguthrie7530]

Good info- thanks!

[@TheFlea1987]

I’ve had very good results with the dlc coating from jprifles and whatever geissele uses for their nano coating.

[@chrisfisher3900]

Boy I can only imagine the crap you two get into😂. You can see the light bulb moments when y’alls brains link up

[@XRING]

🤣 You hit the nail on the head! 👍🏼

[@ContraNovae]

I am very split on the pink AK, it looks like something I would buy my daughter in 10 years when she's 18 but... I would be very worried about trigger happy undertrained cops and fearful neighbors alerted on kids playing with nerf guns and similar toys.

[@T20-c8f]

Just teach your daughter how to be responsible with firearms and it won’t be an issue. My son is 11 months old, too young to handle them yet but once he starts walking I’m going to train him on firearms safety. Most importantly do not touch them! Just like I’m going to train him not to jump into a pool, not to drink adult beverages, not touch fire or stoves, not eat medicine, etc. once he his older I am going to be able to expand those responsibilities. He will be great!

[@T20-c8f]

Just teach your daughter how to be responsible with firearms and it won’t be an issue. My son is 11 months old, too young to handle them yet but once he starts walking I’m going to train him on firearms safety. Most importantly do not touch them! Just like I’m going to train him not to jump into a pool, not to drink adult beverages, not touch fire or stoves, not eat medicine, etc. once he his older I am going to be able to expand those responsibilities. He will be great! He’s getting my first 22 bolt action rifle on his 4th or 5th bday if he can prove he is old enough to handle it.

[@XRING]

Well, I should have clarified in the video that “we” don’t do toy guns or Nerf guns for fun. This rifle was done for the Microtech Archives to match the popular “doughnut” themed knives. This rifle has never been fired and is kept away in the archives. 👍🏼

[@ContraNovae]

​@@T20-c8f I think you misunderstood my comment, it's not my daughter's conduct I will be worried about it will be children playing on the street with toys that vaguely, only vaguely resemble firearms that are brightly coloured that may be mistaken for real firearms.

[@ContraNovae]

​@@XRING Ray, please don't misunderstand my comment, I respect your professionalism and commitment to educate immensely. I did not imply that you or your company produced toys. The quandary is this: Of course it's a free country and anyone should paint their guns whatever colors they wish but this will open doors to unwise people overreacting to the presence of brighly painted toys being played with by children out in the streets or their yards. I really can't see an easy solution to this.

[@chaoticcaninejb]

The nano coating geissele does has been incredible. I have a bcg that has over 15k on it and cleans easy ans damn thing still looks new line how I got it in the rifle.

[@lundysden6781]

great video!!!

[@Lucysdad66]

Hmm got a bunch of his otf from early 2000 with Damascus blades wonder if there still worth the thousands thay cost back then.

[@XRING]

More

[@jeffreybankston6328]

What about Robar NP3 plus as far as lubricity and durability.

[@hopewilliams6705]

I wonder would Tony prefer a a nickel boron bolt over a chrome BCG?

[@dSlayer6160]

MR556A4! Let's go

[@MikeGuadango]

I like nitride the best

[@Parabellum8]

I'm Australian and do have a basic understanding of imperial measurements but dive for calculator with measurements like .0001 of an inch. Would it be possible to have metric conversion captions on the screen for your international audience.

[@Nylonscheme]

.0001 “one ten thousandths” or one tenth of one thousanth. .00254. One inch “1in equals 25.4mm” so one thou would be .0254 (multi length value by 25.4)

[@Le10White]

A TiN AK sure would be nice!

[@ContraNovae]

Totally agree. Waiting for two settlements (thanks PA drunk & red light running drivers!) to come through and I may blow some of it on a minimalistic Infinity/SVI 2011 made from an alloy that is intrinsically hard and corrosion resistant.

[@walterminer4990]

Hello X-Ring!

[@boss350z5]

I never cerakote the inside of receivers... nothing but trouble.

[@LRRPFco52]

Yup. For Aluminum receivers with a nice Anodized finish, I only have them dusted before Cerakote. For the carrier raceway, that is foamed-off. I do like having my extension tunnels Cerakoted though for shrinking the ID a bit when seating the barrel extension, which gets bedded with Thread locker anyway after feed ramps have been matched, de-edged, blended, and polished. I used to do all my receiver sets with Cerakote from the late 2000s to mid-2010s, the farmed it out to local shops with my specific instructions. I think Cerakote made Micro-slick for this, especially 1911s and AR-15 raceways, but I haven’t messed with it.

[@chaoticcaninejb]

Once you find a good quality applicator of your particular type of coatings, keep him on speed dial!!

[@liberaltears9231]

DLC never lasted for me. I bought two titanium bcgs from RCA with ArmorTi. Both coatings failed after less than two hundred rounds. Titanium has issues with galling and it tore up the hammers on both guns. The warranty replacements also failed in similar round counts.

[@benardo8]

This is great to understand why a microtech is 300 bucks….seems cheap after hearing this all that goes into all this…..must have one now…

[@-joe-davidson]

I always feel good about my Microtech knife purchases. I know I'm getting a quality product. Except for the stuff made overseas. I won't touch it.

[@ManjaroBlack]

Anodization is 2 thousandths thick (0.002) and DLC is 2 tenths thick (0.2). 2 thousandths is much THINNER than 2 tenths.

[@XRING]

There is another long comment addressing this. In the world of machining and toolmaking. Two Tenths is not .2 I know it doesn’t make sense mathematically. However we deal with such small numbers all of the time it’s the way it is expressed in all machine shop. “Two Tenths “ is literally two ten thousandths of an inch. 👍🏼

[@TacticalTarzan-sm7ds]

Ray Tony need an extra spray guy I’ve got 20 years of spraying experience I can spray everything hahaha

[@789e2d]

The audio channels are flipped. Disorienting if you wear headphones.

[@mareksbesprozvannijs3463]

You found my clone

[@davidvernier6012]

You have a close resemblance to the coach of the Iowa State Hawkeyes....

[@tyrantworm7392]

L is R and R is L, I'm all muxed ip ;)

[@withoutprejudice8301]

Truly dislike neon/brightly colored firearms. To me it's the manufacturers producing products that appeal to immature individuals that have the wrong attitude towards firearms (i.e. spend a lot of time playing video war games) to promote sales. I'm sure IT'S JUST ME though.

[@XRING]

I agree. However, this was done for the Microtech archives to go with the “doughnut” themed knives that are still popular with collectors. This one has never been fired nor will it be fired.

[@tnycrmb]

You recorded this with one mic going to each stereo channel, and even worse they’re opposite. Please mix down to mono or at least put some of each in each channel to blend it in for us headphone listeners. 😢

[@XRING]

Yes, it was bad. I’m not really familiar with interview type videos. I’m usually filming by myself.

[@tnycrmb]

@ No worries at all, just wanted to mention it in case it could help in the future. When you’re editing if you just mix down the track to mono or combine them it will make it 100% better for us headphone junkies. Appreciate the content tho, thanks sincerely for putting so much effort into it… been a subscriber for many many years. 🤙

[@TrollinCrazyRussian]

DLC and PVD was common in watch community before gun. They both are trash and scratch/wear easily.

[@andlibsbaie]

first✋🏻

[@XRING]

👍🏼 it’s not exciting . Just informative.

[@paulhopkins1905]

I'm gonna jump on my soapbox for a bit. As a responsible gun owner, I cannot stand when people coat their fireaems in colorful, fun finishes. People, including children have been shot and killed for having a toy gun, that supposedly looked too real. Why the fuck are we making real firearms look like toys?

[@Cry42]

Why are we making toys that look like guns? Why encourage kids to point something resembling a firearm at another person?

[@XRING]

Well, I do agree with you and this particular one stays put away and has never been fired. This was done during the “doughnut” knives craze which is still going on with many knives manufacturers. Microtech did a run on those knives and this particular rifle was done to go with a knife for the archives. I also have a distaste for the NERF style firearms. 👍🏼

[@paulhopkins1905]

@Cry42 The fact that the worlds gone soft has nothing to do with my point. Toy guns being apart of American culture is as old as America itself. People being so fucking scares of their own shadow and killing kids over a toy gun is very new

[@paulhopkins1905]

@XRING Good Man!

[@JK-dv8yi]

Horrible audio quality

[@greenstreet5287]

AWESOME USELESS TALKING, SWEET! GIVE US CONTENT NO BODY EXCEPT THE SUCK UPS WHO ENJOY BORDOM THAT WANNA HEAR YALL TALK. WERE HERE FOR SHOOTING HENCE THE X RING. FROM THE BEGINNING NOW ALL U GUYS WANNA DO PODCASTS. OMG NO ONE ARES UNLESS OURE ONE OF THE CHILD INFLIENCERS

[@KB-kw8ni]

CAPS BRO

[@robertosborne1753]

Ok what the heck? At 9:32 you said you prefer cerakote over anno. How? I've contacted Aero Precision AND an anodizer (now I can't find the email :( ) and they both said in order for the cerakote to go on properly they have to blast the surface, and that blasting compromises the anodizing. What made me inquire about this was because when you order from Aero, you get EITHER. I didn't know that and when I bought their FDE receiver sets, I found out AFTER I bought them that theyre cerakoted ONLY, and there's zero anodizing on them, and I was pissed. I asked them why cant you cerakote over ano and that's what they said to me. A separate company said the same thing to me, which is one of the many reasons I stay away from cerakote. (it rubs off too easily for my tastes) So is this not true?

[@Onelowluv]

Hey Robert! My Name is Wayne and I run the cerakote program at Microtech Knives! Cerakote on top of type 3 anodizing is very durable and can be done correctly. We can blast Type 3 pretty aggressively creating a mechanical adhesion without compromising the integrity of the anodizing since type 3 penetrates into the substrate a good amount. You would have to blast the heck out of type 3 to remove it. The benefit of coating over anodizing, is anodizing gives you full uniform coverage coating in areas that would be difficult to achieve with cerakote Type 2 on the other hand, blasts off very easy. And the anodizing is compromised with blasting. It’s more like a hard thin candy shell. While it’s still protective and creates a lower coefficient of friction, it’s more decorative. And depending on the density of your parts (upper vs lower) you can get a difference in color. Some gun/knife companies will cerakote over raw blasted cerakote depending on the finish and color they are trying to achieve. And probably because it’s cheaper to coat it one time rather than 2. As an example, FDE is gonna look like gold or bronze in most cases if it’s anodized and chances are the upper and lower will not match. This is why a lot of companies use cerakote. Uniform color on upper, lower, and rail I’m advanced certified by cerakote, and even they will tell you in the classes that it’s perfectly fine to coat over ano if you can blast it and get a good mechanical adhesion

[@XRING]

Thank you for clearing that up Wayne! You are the man! 👍🏼😎

[@robertosborne1753]

@@Onelowluv Well fuckin awesome! lol. That's a finish I've always wanted lol, thank you for that! Tell us this then - I know you guys went over it a tad in the video about how you cant do a lot of colors with type 3 mil spec on 7071, but in addition to black, is there any other color that's available for the type 3 on 7000 series?

[@robertosborne1753]

And Microtech knives are awesome too lol.

[@davidinoklahoma5627]

This was hard to follow because I don't know the nomenclature. Type one, type two, 77 this or that.

[@robertosborne1753]

And dlc's diamond like coating; pvd's physical vapor deposition. And you wanna see a tough coating? Look at the piston skirt coatings applied by Swain Tech... And you can't say pvd's are like dlc's - dlc is the coating, pvd's the way it's applied.

[@Disastrous.Affect]

The one thing the firearms industry needs to get a handle on is color matching, they absolutely suck at it. When I buy a FDE pistol, why is the slide and the frame 2 different shades?🤷‍♂ Add a light and optic on the tool, and now the tool is 4 shades of 👶💩 brown, come on folks, the auto industry figured this out in the 80's, catch up please.🫡

[@XRING]

I agree with you and we actually talk about that specific thing in the video.

[@Disastrous.Affect]

@@XRING I am still watching the video, but that was my experience with the FN Reflex, I love the pistol, but hated the coating. I ended up buying a second pistol in black and swapping them around to get a couple of 2 toned black and FDE tools.🤷‍♂

[@jeffreybankston6328]

What about Robar NP3 plus as far as lubricity and durability.