Firefighter Breakdown: DOUBLE House Fire Causes Roof Collapse

[@markvanpelt5583]

Being one of the guys who took the quick ride to the attic, I am well aware of the danger involved with venting a roof. I was lucky and managed to land on one of the few remaining ceiling joists in jumped back out of the hole I made going in. Even held on to the pike pole and the chainsaw I was carrying. Because of the benefits to the interior crew's such as lighter heat exposure, better visibility and the evacuation of toxic chemicals from the structure, I would be highly suspect of not venting. Even though I fell, I think the benefits outweigh the risks. I know I was lucky and got out of it with only a wrenched back and the outcome could have been much worse but that is part of the job. We're also trying to save those people's possessions. Ventilation is a vital tool in pushing the dragon out of the unburned area and back into the burned.

[@davisstevens9330]

Love the work flow of these guys, but the lack of SCBA use in the IDLH environment grinds my gears. Would love to see all of these passionate firefighters make their careers as long lasting as possible by taking the easy steps now.

[@oldskier3019]

How about the length of time they allowed the fire to burn with 500 gallons of onboard water just sitting there in their tanks?

[@patrickstoker2941]

I noticed that right off the bat. Our VFD has a policy that you are on air when you are in the hot zone without exception

[@RamboJohnJ]

@@patrickstoker2941 that entire Engine crew would be suspended in my area, simply and solely for breaking SCBA policy.

[@rhoonah5849]

I agree. We recently had a structure fire and I was on the nozzle on one hand line and noticed that my partner and I were the only ones on air even after we knocked it down and started overhaul. We had a quick post-mortem and I brought up that people should be on air no matter what. This was a garage fire full of all kinds of plastics, etc. and they were nuts to not be on air.

[@armandopadilla3641]

Oh, put a sock in it. This job is inherently dangerous and unless you’re inside or on the top, ain’t no reason to be breathing in the yard. If you’re that much of coward, go work at McDonald’s where you’re safe 🤡

[@AeroVisionNY]

Common practice in the FDNY is to ventilate a flat roof, while generally avoiding the practice on a peaked roof. Taking the windows in what is usually a single occupancy dwelling, with some exceptions, is adequate. Putting members on a peaked roof is an unnecessary risk, especially if there's fire blowing from the roof, where the structure is self-ventilating.

[@Truecrimeisfascinating]

With fire being my biggest fear, learning more about how firefighters do their job had been helping with anxieties. I enjoy this series a lot and have so much respect for fire fighters. Thank you

[@dfgiuy22]

Try to not let it worry you to much, and it's nice to see someone managing their fears. For structure fires like this just practice common sense and have 2-3 smoke detectors in your house. Best off in the kitchen, hallway and bedroom. Change the batteries as indicated and if there is a fire just leave the house/building. Don't even worry about your phone if it's not at hand, get a neighbour to call. Once your out, your safe. We'll get there asap and look after it from there. Only extinguish if your capable and confident to do so but it's still a good idea to call us and get us rolling anyway. I'd personally prefer to rock up to a already out fire or a building we can confirm is unoccupied than someone get hurt or their total building a loss because they delayed something. Gold luck with your Anxiety, it'll all work out. Your obviously aware of it so that's half the battle :)

[@Truecrimeisfascinating]

@@dfgiuy22 thank you so much- very helpful and comforting in an unusual way haha

[@dfgiuy22]

@@Truecrimeisfascinating I'm a non-clinical mental health rehab worker, as well as a volunteer firefighter. I wish everyone had your level of insight in to their conditions. Your not letting your anxiety get the better of you and are fighting it, so if I can leave a few words here and there to hopefully help then I'm more than happy to. Also got family with severe anxiety so I'm happy to try and help where I can. Take care of yourself and don't let it win. You'll be a'ok! Who knows you might even one day join a volunteer brigade as a firefighter or even an auxiliary member!

[@perryfire1]

Vertical ventilation is a great tool if used appropriately and done well and quickly. With that said, there was no need for those guys to be on the roof on house 1. The engine guys were hitting it from the yard so what is the point? The house was small enough with fire throughout that spraying from outside did the trick. Hell, none of them were even masked up or had gloves on*, so I am assuming the IC called for a defensive attack? I didn't see anybody make entry. So why would you have a crew on the roof? The house was clearly ventilated from the fire already. Cutting a hole in the roof wouldn't have made much of a difference in that particular fire. My guess is that the first arriving truck decided that is where they needed to be and the IC let them run with it. But imagine if they had gone to the exposure house instead? Not nearly as sexy but I bet the damage would have been a lot less if they had focused on what was savable from the get-go. In my experience the ladder guys could never cut a hole fast enough to beat an engine crew and another ladder crew opening up in a residential house. Three truckies with hooks and an engine crew could knock down the fire before a hole was cut most times. So while the vertical vent did help with smoke and heat removal, it didn't really speed up extinguishment. Don't forget too that some fires vent themselves before we get there which should be used to our advantage. The vertical vent really shines in large buildings and roofs where you want to head off fire movement. Apartment buildings, strip malls, etc. Any building sharing a common cockloft. It's pretty cool to watch something like that work on a big fire, but it requires a lot of manpower and work. LA has some great videos on those types of vents. A little tip for this new format: We can't hear the radio traffic, or at least I can't. It would be very helpful to hear it in real time to get a sense of the game plan. But if you can't increase the volume, that's fine too. * There is no excuse not to wear your PPE in these conditions. It makes you a liability and ineffective. I'm no safety queen but what is going on here?

[@mike_pertz]

That's good to know...I'll see about making the volume higher for the video. Thanks!

[@cohlelexi1771]

Was thinking the same thing!

[@engine2truck6]

You have sensible input, brother.

[@hamishwest3901]

@@mike_pertz Or if it's not too much work for you, some captions on the screen would help too :) Just found this channel, love the breakdowns. Keep it up!

[@oldskier3019]

"Vertical ventilation is a great tool if used appropriately and done well and quickly." That comment should be applied to tank water usage within the first minute of arrival on Visible Burning material. There is nothing appropriate, done well or quickly, about VVing!

[@matthewpiazza6004]

Really loving this new video series. Keep up the good work.

[@kevinmokracek5078]

At about 6:50 you see a fireman carrying salvage covers into the exposure home that has attic involvement. One of the things the LAFD takes pride in is protecting property. We will hold off on attacking the attic fire until we have salvage covers over valuables in the home. One of the jobs of the inside man on the truck is to even lay floor runners down so we aren’t destroying the home tracking crap all over their home. Many times you will see the inside man carrying an attic ladder on one shoulder and floor runners, at 15:00 you see a fireman carrying floor runners. Just a little insight into LAFD tradition and tactics.

[@ccrookston]

Good catch! I would not have noticed that.

[@stuartofJax]

Not a firefighter. Thanks for pointing out that they are protecting contents as the reason for a delay in putting water on the 2nd house. I did not know that any FD’s did this.

[@TheEDFLegacy]

@@stuartofJax Me either! It's actually not a bad idea. Another not bad idea is to have firefighters grab anything highly flammable (such as papers), and removing them from the premises. Other than grabbing valuable documentation, it also removes fuel from the fire.

[@benshapiroisgay]

Lmao the neighbour with the hose. Your response is way too gracious.

[@hannahwaddell8727]

I just started Academy and this video series has been super helpful in tactics as well as applying what I've been learning in regards to fire behavior! Thank you for them and I hope to see more!

[@mike_pertz]

Thanks Hannah! Just posted a new one today!

[@oldskier3019]

Watch every UL and ISFSI video and then ask your trainers, why they are telling you to do the opposite.

[@sherpajones]

I think the hardest part for me about this is that the bravo exposure caught, when it looked like they had a chance to save it. My anxiety peaked when it took them so long to charge the hose and attack the exposure. But as a building designer, I know that the soffits of these types of roofs are quite vulnerable, and once fire catches below the eave it will spread to the attic really quick. As the fire had already caught before they could deploy and charge the line, it was already spread and they couldn't have prevented anything by rushing the process. This also speaks to why on much closer setbacks we are required to specify non combustible soffit/eave details and in some cases non combustible siding.

[@donaldmorrison9940]

9 years and an OIC, so probably not as experienced as a lot of people on here but I do have a different, foreign perspective. In Scotland, we never commit crews above an uncontrolled fire, and we don't practice this form of ventilation at all. We do use ventilation tactics but never this one. I'd be interested to know the reasoning for using it? It seems to cause a lot of safety issues judging by the number of videos about it on KZbin and to be honest, it would be difficult to persuade me of the benefits considering the huge risks. In this case, with the first house gone, I can't imagine that the risk/benefit analysis works out there. Like the old firefighter maxim goes "risk a lot to save a lot (ie a life), risk a little to save a little (ie property), risk nothing to save that which can't be saved". Could someone also explain the roles and functions of ladder, engine and truck crews please? We don't have the equivalent in the UK at all, pretty much all our appliances are the same (in big cities you might get the odd "special" like a turntable ladder).

[@BC-um6ym]

As firefighters we are constantly tasked with performing risk/benefit analysis on the fire ground. In this instance I would have to say that it is not worth the risk to vertically ventilate that structure and put that crew at that great a risk.

[@jtcool8162]

Agreed considering that they didn't have any crews going internal.... Not much benefit for the risk

[@jimmys2199]

Or limiting the number of personnel on the roof or if you can get the tower ladder bucket in to work from the bucket

[@engine2truck6]

You asked for experienced firefighter comments... 25 years line division 70% nozzle on Engine company which average 300-400 structure fires annually, 20% of my time in Truck, similar numbers, 10% of my time on Rescue Company which averaged 750 Structure fires annually. Four-time Meritorious Service for fire rescues, one Medal of Valor and Firehouse Magazine Medal for Bravery. LOTS of nozzle time and opened many roofs. VERTICAL VENTILATION WORKS, brother... if you have aggressive interior attack, and a nozzle man who pushes forward, vertical vent is effective. That being said, not 100% sure it was the best move on this fire, but we weren’t there so it’s not good to jump to that conclusion. Your comments are REALLY appropriate and those interested in a career in Fire Service will find MAJOR value in your channel. Stay safe, Brother.

[@oldskier3019]

Stats mean nothing if you spent all that time doing it wrong. Right? Now let's see what you did. Prove to us HOW VVing works without using the words Heat Rises. Post a link to ONE video that shows the conditions improving inside when the roof was opened. I mean on a real world structure, not a one or two room shack with a cathedral ceiling.

[@-Kameron-]

In Pennsylvania or at least at my fire company in Perry county orange helmets are for junior firefighters (under 18)

[@bige1466]

At 9m35sec I seen the 1st firefighter masked up. Also as a firefighter of 12 years. That house would be fit for surround and drown. No vertical ventilation at all with no interior attack. Once you do go in for overhaul, you can then hydraulic ventilate. My opinion.

[@toddmailand8810]

Finally got around to watching this. We strongly advise and use vertical ventilation when conditions allow. We try to mainly work off a ladder, but also work off the roof if it sounds solid while up there

[@edwardmeegan1849]

When you review many of the procedures involved when operating on the fire ground in relation to the RIT or Fast teams, there are 4 main tactics that are deployed for 90% of the incidents. 1. accountability of personnel, a role call of all who are on the scene. 2. call for additional help: if you had for more help from the start you wouldn't need to deploy the RIT team, call for help before you think you need it. 3. increase fire flow: if you had enough lines or enough water flowing on the fire you wouldn't need to deploy the RIT team. A 2x4 will always dry out, have you ever seen a 2x4 grow back? 4. increase ventilation: if you had opened a large enough ventilation hole(s): you wouldn't need to deploy the RIT team. If you think that you need a 4x4 hole in the roof, then why not cut an 8x8 hole. After over 31 years in the fire service (Including my 5 years and 364 days as a battalion chief), I have never seen a back-draft, roll-over or a flash-over in any building that had good ventilation and adequate water applied. Sometimes there is no success without excess.

[@RAYTHEONGAMING]

Astonishing just how fast the exposure went up and just goes to show how seconds save lives

[@ryanbogle2721]

Great video keep them up but I have a quick suggestion during the fire as there putting it out can you describe the type of hose nozzle it is and why they are using it thanks 👍

[@javer208]

In Rural Canada, most of the houses we deal with the roofs are not safe to do vertical ventilation due to the longer response times (10mins+). My understanding is that vertical ventilation aims to reduce the chance of flashover when entering the building, Safer way may be to do horizontal vertical with taking out a window. The biggest issue I see with vertical ventilation is that it's a default behaviour, is the questioned asked "should we be doing it for this fire?"

[@J.BR0WN_9898]

It’s LA, there are just as many fire stations as there are Starbucks. So it’s always a short ETA 6 minutes or less.

[@oldskier3019]

Extinguishing all Visible Burning Material through the windows gives those gasses a direct route out of the structure and cools the gasses with the water application. VVing introduces fresh air through all openings and spreads the fire throughout the structure.

[@RamboJohnJ]

@@oldskier3019 you sound eerily similar to a wannabe firefighter named JB91710 … only clown on the face of the planet that uses inappropriate punctuation and terms like “Visible Burning Material”. Only JB uses that term with the exact same incorrect punctuation… 🤔🧐

[@oldskier3019]

@@RamboJohnJ Do you mean there are Two intelligent commentors on KZbin regarding firefighting? Amazing! I can tell You aren't one of them because You had absolutely nothing to offer on firefighting tactics! That's really sad but what could I expect from a person with your name?

[@RamboJohnJ]

@@oldskier3019 so, Jack Biessman… still up to your old antics of pretending to be something you’re not hey? You’re not a firefighter, you’ve never been a firefighter and you will never be a firefighter. Get over it and stop talking like you know what you’re talking about, because you don’t.

[@engineco.1494]

I think there's a time and place for everything, alot of factors to consider like building construction etc, I think if its one room in a house and its a aggressive fast attack with a good knock down with limited extension sure ventilate I think if the whole floor below was involved I say no. But at the end of the day firefighters take orders and we should always report any changes to command. Even if the pitch is walkable throw a roof ladder on it anyway. Also I like the fire reviews as well!

[@oldskier3019]

It's the trainers and leaders who are the problem. UL and ISFSI are 95% correct in their example and 95% of USA departments ignore them.

[@josephmiller4052]

My department does use vertical ventilation we also use positive pressure ventilation.

[@veggiedisease123]

Those bars a pretty common on houses in working class areas of LA. Sometimes you'll see them on nice Spanish-style homes as a decorative flourish, but those are definitely burglar bars. 54th and Normandie is deep in the hood.

[@TheWildFirefighter]

Vertical Ventilation is very, very rare in the Australian Fire Services. We find that hydraulic and mechanical ventilation are a lot more effective. I’ve also heard the argument that we have different roof types. In my time I’ve only ever seen vertical ventilation once, and it was actually in the overhaul stage. We used an impact driver to unscrew corrugated sheets from the roof. Some trucks carry K12s and other rotary saws, we don’t though in our trucks

[@ethangrover5382]

thats quite interesting, vertical ventilation in the US is extremely common. I wonder what differences our roofs have to yours? or if its just a different style of firefighting?

[@cohlelexi1771]

Yeah VV is common over here in the West especially. Why they are on the roof of this fully involved structure has my curiosity.. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@oldskier3019]

It's rare because you Think. You find what's burning and put water on it. That's what every country does Except the US!

[@mark77193]

@@ethangrover5382 Australian (and New Zealand) roofs are usually corrugated steel or concrete tiles. Newer construction often has metal tiles. Plywood or OSB sheathing is rarely used other than beneath low slope membrane roofs. Asphalt shingle roofs like in the US are rare, my home town of around 8000 people has no more than about half a dozen USA-type shingle roofs (I install them and low slope roofs for a living)

[@wmbrennan]

I was a volunteer for for years in a small town and we ventilated with bricks thrown thrown through the upper story windows! Later we got state ff trainings which helped improve our skills. Small town with limited resources we used what we had to work with. Scott packs we had two on the truck. Could you explain the difference between an engine, truck, ladder truck and what each does? Love you videos and explanations. I wish I was still in a fire dept but in my 70s now and live in a major city with a “real” fire service.

[@LauRoot892]

Bill 🤐

[@Trassik]

These are California Craftsman architectural style. Probably Southern California. Have seen a lot of those bar covered security windows while doing construction there. They are installed with bolts that can only be turned clockwise.

[@Trassik]

Also just noticed LAFD on the fire outfits, that's probably Los Angeles.

[@LauRoot892]

@@Trassik 😕

[@matthewmccormick2417]

I like having it Vert vented. When inside it gets a bunch of smoke out and heat out and makes the job better when you are inside on a like fighting it

[@stevemockoviak8384]

Generally speaking, I would think vertical ventilation is most useful when a rescue is involved, and conditions can be made more tenable for anyone still inside. If the fire is already self venting I see no point. I had fire come back up through the ventilation hole on one call, and that is not a very comforting feeling. But it did the job, and the search and rescue was completed quickly. It's always a judgement call, but my fire company used vertical ventilation very sparingly, and usually only with heavy smoke to clear enough for effective searches. Flames showing from all openings meant no vertical ventilation was done as the building was most likely compromised.

[@Sunrise_Priapism]

We use almost exclusively horizontal ventilation but neighboring departments use vertical. I find use in both and naturally prefer horizontal. I think vertical is more dangerous but I won't say ot should be used or not

[@trs8947]

Where is the water on both exposures, wtf, these guys need to get their prioritys straighten out

[@matthewdey8628]

I as well started the Fire Academy in Florida and found these videos to be very helpful. Thank you.

[@oldskier3019]

See if the academy follows UL and ISFSI. If they don't, ask why? Then be prepared to be eliminated from the program.

[@watchthe1369]

The way I learned it, you get some knockdown on the fire before you think about venting. You want the steam and smoke venting but you do not want to make a chimney/ flow path that only pumps the fire before you get to it.

[@edoesnotlose2898]

Im an LA CITY FF. We perform vertical ventilation on vacant because we are relieving the heat and smoke off of OUR members inside. We’re trained VERY well in building construction and know this is conventional construction meaning its old and heavy Timbers and it’ll be a while before it fails. , we know our “first in,” and know how these buildings are constructed. This is in South LA which is a rough neighborhood and comes with a lot of forcible entry issues. This neighborhood was built in the 1930s and 40s.

[@thtboii5884]

Have you ever considered making some video tips on EMS tips and breakdowns?

[@fire808surf]

Thanks for the breakdown. I’ve watched several of these and have noticed something that you haven’t mentioned. The crews always mask up after the set up. It never looks fast. We send one guy ,at least, out on air. Everyone has different reasons in sure but there’s usually time to don in commute and the young guys usually stretch air better than the guys in front🤙

[@joshuaho3828]

So I'm a fire technology student in college - and something I noticed from 2:34-3:30 was that the crew who was protecting the Bravo exposure was not masked up fully. Is there a reason why they might choose to do that over putting their masks on? I would imagine (from what I saw) at a minimum they'd be encountering (and potentially inhaling) steam, if not the superheated toxic gases.

[@mcp8063]

Because they’re idiots that subscribe to the “leather lung” macho bs or they’ve become complacent and don’t realise what demons lung and throat cancer really are.

[@ThaiTeaKnowsBest]

Old firefighter mentality

[@gwencrawford737]

Probably because they're getting plenty of good air, without sucking the limited supply of air from their tanks. The key point about using SCBA is simply this... it's there to ensure you have good air to breathe while you work. If you've already got good air to breathe, without using the SCBA's air... GREAT. Enjoy it! There's nothing virtuous, about sucking air out of your tank, when you are already getting plenty of good air without it. It's just wasting a resource you might REALLY need later in the incident. Duly noted... if you're making entry, OR you're going into a freaking pall of smoke... YEAH... I want to see you mask up! And YES, on interior overhaul? SCBA, all the way... because you're essentially in a contaminated confined space with all KINDS of smoke, soot and off-gassing byproducts in there with you. But don't piss away good SCBA air, when the outside ambient fresh air is what you're breathing, and you're not fixing to go right into an IDLH atmosphere.

[@PremiumFuelOnly]

@@gwencrawford737 What if the wind changes direction. Id think its always best to have the mask on. Air is cheap. Cancer is expensive.

[@gwencrawford737]

@@PremiumFuelOnly Air is cheap? It may be... but there's only so much in the air bottle, and your mileage varies on how quickly you can get your tanks refilled, once you've pissed your bottles away. If the wind changes... it's nothing to hold your breath and get your mask on. Here's the deal on cancer... you can wear all the PPE and SCBA you want... you're getting exposed, and some of our worst exposure right now, is WEARING THE GEAR. There are chemicals in play in the manufacture of our gear, that ARE, in fact, carcinogenic. I don't imagine the heat we experience in the fire, or even inside the gear just wearing it, does anything but help expose us more to those carcinogens. The heat causes us to sweat and that opens our pores. So what do you do? It's too late to worry about 'cancer' when the alarm has sounded and you're on a scene. If you're THAT worried... DON'T BECOME A FIREFIGHTER. Being a firefighter, for worse off or better, means sacrificing your body, for other people. Even if we adopt clean cabs and issue everyone 2 or 3 sets of PPE, and clean that PPE thoroughly after each use, which we CAN and SHOULD do... That's not going to eliminate the cancer risk, or any other risk. We're still in a business where we're asking our bodies to do things and operate in environments that our bodies just aren't built for. When you take your body to the 'red line' like a car engine throttled up, often enough, you start to have wear and tear and there's nothing you can do about it. It comes with the territory. There's no way to be a useful firefighter without sacrifice and risk. If you want to do the job, you've got to be willing to pay the price for doing it, and the price is often manifested in damage to your health, in some form or fashion. It comes with the job. That sucks... but there it is!

[@lamartruth6601]

The Engine companies did an excellent job at this fire. First they got into the exposure to stop the spread. 2nd when the other house became involved they hot a quick knock down from the outside and probably went inside for a more thorough extinguishment.

[@diegojaramillo2942]

yesterday my brothers and i stopped a fire from our back neighbors spread to our garage with two water hoses and buckets of water lol

[@engine2truck6]

NICE JOB!!!!

[@spbjrenterprises4417]

As a Firefighter and gathering input from my dad that has been on the job for 30 years He said that he has never seen it done by our department due to safety concerns and the lightweight construction and I agree with him

[@engine2truck6]

I spent 25 years in a department which deployed very aggressive interior tactics. Utilized Vert Vent OFTEN. After retiring, I took a job in Fire Safety in a small department, and my office window overlooked the training tower. At first I thought the methods being taught were silly. BUT after a time, noticing the limits on manpower at a fire scene, the distances and times required to arrive on scene, the distance of hydrants (when they even had them), and the difference in construction.... the rationale for the training and tactics became apparent. This smaller department probably won’t be opening many roofs, and for their resources, water supply, manpower, etc.... that is probably the SMART move. So I don’t judge as I once did when people from Australia, or London, or LA or any other jurisdiction “does it differently”. It’s probably RIGHT for THEIR situation. Where I’m from, they still advance with an uncharged line and call for water from inside, while Truckies head to the roof to open it, probably 60-70% of the time. Unless there are people hanging from the windows, the second companies in perform search & rescue and advance second and backup lines. But we have like 26 guys on scene within 3 minutes. Many departments simply can’t do that.

[@engine2truck6]

This is awesome. THANK YOU

[@user-Mike1119]

Around time 8:09 you were talking about the safety for firefighters for roof ventilation. Would you consider posting a video where you could also talk to other firefighters like officers in your fire dept. and other people as well about what they think about the pros and cons of roof ventilation when there is no one in the structure?

[@AndrewMagnuson]

I think vertical ventilation is a must. Early in my career we were not allowed to do any venting on any structures on base. We had-all the services -had high very high, numbers of wounded far above that of our civilian brothers & sisters but we too had a far higher fatality rate. It was due to the extreme heat, zero visibility, the near to constant flash overs. So yea I believe in venting structure fires.

[@ynwasuggy223sugg4]

why arent they wearing there scba epuipment

[@loganbromley4242]

I think we should keeping vertical ventilation if victims are inside… I think if there aren’t any victims inside it is not worth the risk of the firefighters

[@engine2truck6]

The vertical vent is for the NOZZLEMAN as well as the victims. If there is an aggressive interior attack, vert vent is effective

[@oldskier3019]

The fire is in the living room in a colonial. You cut a hole in the roof and punch out the ceiling, if you can, right over little Johnny's bed. The fire leaves the living room, Spreads into the foyer, up the stairs, down the hall, over Johnny's bed and then out the ceiling hole where you have now turned a contents fire into a Structural fire. How exactly did that protect and save lives?

[@robertgildea2841]

I am watching from Elmira NY in a fire like that Elmira fire department even the West Elmira volunteer fire department would use a 3 and a half a 2 and a half and the deck gun

[@spmince]

You asked for comments on roof venting. I have been retired from a small all volunteer department for about five years now. A couple of years before I retired we had pretty much gotten away from vertical ventilation. Horizontal ventilation is not only a lot safer but it is also a lot faster. Our first in engine was a six person cab. Being a volunteer department job assignment was based on what seat you were in. One of the the seats was what we called the fan seat. The first thing that person would do is take the fan to the entry point, start it and point it away from the door.

[@112Huese]

I am a 15 year Firefighter in Germany, we do positiv pressure with a Fan. For our buildings that works fine, I am sure it works for the American houses as well.

[@jimmys2199]

Roof ventalion is so important for victims and the firefighters once that Roof is ventilated..can go from untenable to tenable..like almost unbelievable better..NYC fireman 26 years

[@ericgilbert2967]

I believe that we should vent depending on the situation if no one is inside and we are defense do not put anyone in danger

[@ChiefDean1]

I will only put guys on the roof when I have an attic fire and it hasnt broke thru or is in the beginning stages because veritcally is the only way to ventilate the heat and smoke .Other wise on most residential fires We can control air flow and reach most of the fire thru the windows cool things off, then transition to interior with the use of PPV's for horizontal ventilation . We get the job done with out putting firefighters in hazardous conditions on unoccupied structures.

[@jharris5387]

Where is the truck co. Did you ever see the Boyd st. fire. The truck co got fried getting of the roof they were ventilating. 😢it was a sad fire

[@Ahmad-lc3dd]

Truck always goes to the roof baby! Especially when u got an engine company inside.

[@FiendFyreNyx]

so i have a question when it comes to when the second house caught fully. as you said, it looked liked radiant heat re-caught the second house on fire. you mentioned that when the second house caught, it looked like the first house was mostly out with probably some hotspots. why didn't they shift some of the resources over sooner to the second house to at least get a jump on that fire before it spread? im just curious because you did still see one handline on the bravo side of the first house and we know that there were 2 or more lines used on the first house. wouldnt that have been quicker to have that line move over to the other house to suppress the fire until they could get another line on it? i did see that the fire did move pretty quickly so it could have spread while they were communicating and handling accountability. but thats why im asking you in hopes you have a answer. im just curious because im trying to learn as much as i can about firefighting and fire prevention. with seeing these videos, i used to be one of those who asked why sometimes it took so long to get water on the fire or what the whole thought process is when tackling fires like this one.

[@dracoslayer16]

I'm genuinely curious about this as well. There must be a reason as the chief and everyone there clearly sees the fire rapidly getting bigger but still don't divert even a short burst of water to slow it down. We see once they put water on it the fire drops super quick so I gotta wonder why they let it get so bad before hitting it.

[@mar4oz]

At the beginning I’m thinking an excellent time for the underused deck gun video?

[@ohjumpa]

We almost never cut ventilation here in Germany. Just when want to slow horizontal spread in very long buildings. Else it looks for me like a completely unnecessary risk. Probably a historic method, dating back to times when we had not enough water to fight exposure or something like that

[@Dont_buy_lefty_lies]

Vert vent has a time and place. If the structure self vented there is no reason to vert. If there is hot fire burning in confined space and the roof is the best option then get the truck up there and let them work. Condonation and Communication as well as available manpower are all needed to make the call.

[@uniden03229]

I think when correctly timed with the interior attack crew vertical ventilation can be extremely beneficial.

[@oldskier3019]

Explain in great detail, without using Heat Rises, just how VVing will help interior conditions.

[@patrickstoker2941]

My concern and maybe ignorance with ventilation concerns how long the structure was burning before arrival of FD. From the beginning of the video, it looked like that house had been going for a while. With lightweight construction by the time the firefighters were on the roof those galvanized gusset plates holding the rafters together would have had time to weaken substantially.

[@LauRoot892]

Stoker 🤔

[@karsten27027]

I have seen quite a few of these videos now. There is one thing I do not understand. When you come to a fire where the house is engulfed, so there is no-one og nothing to salvage, then it is evidently important to stop the spread. But I think i see firefighters taking risks in order to put out the fire. as fast as possible. A firefighter should not take a personal risk, unless he/she is actually rescuing another person.

[@kirkstaggs9773]

First, vertical ventilation just like anything else can be beneficial. It just depends.

[@jamesandrasi3304]

Where’s the ladder there just walking around like oh well we’ll get to it when we get to it

[@kevinhanz4894]

Heat raises, so roof ventilation is an escellent way to get the heat out. It is also a good way to get water onto the fire.

[@urmamaobama3961]

Im a German Firefighter and here in Germany we dont go on the roof when there is a fire or the building is at risk of collapse. We turn the basket of the turntable ladder (short = DLK / Drehleiter mit Korb) just above the roof and tear holes in the roof with a ripper so no one has to get on the roof and put themselves in danger.

[@spicypineapples3823]

I would love if you did a review of a FDNY response video. They have some really cool videos that could useful to review.

[@oldskier3019]

The FDNY is the worst department in the world. Every one of their videos proves that statement. Why would you want to learn from them?

[@jcm028]

We still train on vertical ventilation, but we haven't used it in practice in over 10 years. We haven't had the need to do it where risk was worth the reward and so far positive pressure vent has always been successful for us. In fact, even on MA fire calls I haven't seen it put into practice in 'forever'..

[@flatfingertuning727]

I've seen a few videos about positive pressure venting, but it doesn't seem to be terribly common. Any idea why? If a fire already has a path to the outside, applying positive pressure to the unburned side would seem like a clear win since it will not only improve conditions in the structure quickly, but can greatly slow down the spread of the fire or halt it altogether.

[@jcm028]

@@flatfingertuning727 If we can do an interior attack and extinguish the fire at the seat in decent time, we do hydraulic ventilation which nearly clears the house of smoke and heat in a matter of minutes, then we'll do pos pressure vent, works just as good as vertical (unless the fire is solely in the attic). I think some Depts just get into common practice and stick with it..

[@jharris5387]

Why dont the use the master stream and why aren't they deploying 2and a half lines instead of a 1 and a half?

[@jeremynunn3829]

On certain occasions we should continue with vertical ventilations

[@fahdalharbi8984]

I think what they should do in the first place is to do cooling to the subjects around the fire either its another house or anything around it. Then starts to fight the fire and from the damages they described it in the beginning ventilation will do no good except losing two or four firefighter to do it instead they should be holding another nozzels and fight the fire with their friends.

[@ofcv1238]

5:49 I think main misperception for average person is that a venting fire is not a panic rush; assuming occupants vacated. That is mental block average person

[@gregsopko20]

firefighter for 15 years. this is a colossal failure from everyone involved. initial house was a total loss anyways. should have had a second line in bravo exposure at the exact same time as first line deployed.

[@LauRoot892]

Greg Going to Shop 🤣

[@flowartbyjimbruce4399]

Was it possible to prevent the house on the left catching on fire with water to cool it down.????????????????????????

[@Tank196958]

Regarding vertical ventilation. This issue is extremely situationally dependent. On this particular incident, I would caution against it. If I was IC, I would not deploy firefighters to the roof. My reasoning is this and it will probably be long winded, but for the younger, gung ho, firefighters, humor me and listen with an open mind. I have always had a rule of four. The four things every firefighter should be as familiar with as much as possible. It was three things for years but a newer concept has proven very useful. These four things are, building construction, a working understanding of fire command tactics so you can have an idea of what is coming next, smoke and fire behavior and the ability to read the smoke, and flow path (the newest addition and utterly paramount in this particular fire). So, this is what I call antique legacy construction, pre-1965 wood frame residential. You will more than likely encounter a few specific hurdles with this age of construction. The most important is tongue in groove wood ceiling finish. The reason this is a pertinent hurdle is the increased difficulty for the vent team to breach the ceiling from the roof. Also, if done correctly, managing flow path in this type of structure, particularly because it is a "tighter" building, you can affect a positive change far faster without ventilation. When we ventilate, we give the smoke and unburned gases a way to escape. That can be good but it can also be counter productive. When the water converts to steam, it follows the same path as the heated gases and smoke. If you can feasibly enter in gear and the atmosphere isnt so hot you cannot operate, utilize the flow path and let the steam smother the fire, or choke it out, as it were. The environment inside will be hotter than some but if we utilize what we know and constantly remain vigilant for signs of flashover or other issues, you can more than likely extinguish most of the active burning with tank water. I say this, because I have seen this happen more times than I can count. With all of that said, ventilation has its place. Thankfully, modern wood frame construction usually uses OSB sheathing on the roof. OSB is designed to self ventilate in a free burning attic or cockloft fire. I will end by saying this. I know some may disagree with me and I am all for hearing others opinions on the subject. I am definitely not the absolute authority on any of what we do. I am only putting forth what I have seen from both ends of the spectrum. I have fought fires in these types of structure with both tactics deployed. I think risking anyone on a roof when we are not completely sure what type of truss system or sheathing was used is not a good idea. One other thing I always tell my students is this. If you dont know what youre getting into, dont get into it. Fight from the outside in when the structure is well involved and no life safety issues exist. Be aggressive, but please be smart about it. Above all, stay safe and enjoy the best job in the world. I am two years from retirement and will miss it tremendously. God bless you all..

[@mike_pertz]

This is an awesome comment and exactly the type of engagement and insight I'm looking to foster on this channel. Thank you for taking the time to write all of this in a well thought out manner so others can learn from you.

[@Tank196958]

@@mike_pertz Thank you for the kind words. I want to pass on what little I have learned because if we dont, the understanding dies with us and puts the newer generation back at square one. We arent doing them any favors by not telling them what we have learned. Lord help, I remember when SCBAs were for wimps. Trust me, if I could go back and redo, I would wear one throughout the incident. Things are changing. Construction is changing. It is getting more dangerous with lighter weight, engineered, materials used in construction. Thank you again and stay safe brother.

[@engine2truck6]

Best of good fortune in your retirement, brother.

[@oldskier3019]

The short winded version is, VVing does Not work like people think it does just because Heat Rises so don't do it. You aren't trying to remove just heat, you are primarily looking for a "Direct" Pressure Release Location that will allow the heat and smoke to move away from the interior. VVing draws that heat through the entire house while mixing it with fresh air and then creates a structural fire. Not to mention, incinerating everything in it's path including little Johnny that was lying in bed directly under the hole punched in the ceiling.

[@Tank196958]

@@oldskier3019 What he said. LOL

[@carmenschumann826]

. . . especially in the beginning the intensity of such a fire doubles every 30 or so seconds . . . the quicker the wet stuff is on the red stuff the more likely there is something to be salvaged or saved . . .

[@xxkillerkane420xx8]

I can’t believe they’re on the roof with a fully involved structure. Maybe I’m not seeing the full picture but our department most likely wouldn’t have gone vertical on this structure.

[@Rocky-be7gy]

Hi there buddy, love you channel the orange helmets are captain 1,2,or 3 with LAFD city iam new to your channel iam very well Informed of there' procedure's iam a long time EMT 80s...90s We Also have LAFD county fire as well. This content is with LAFD(City)

[@chainsaw5vent]

The single family structure is well involved. Alpha Bravo involvement with the exposure on Bravo side starting to burn. Truck vent crew is performing the ventilation cut as part of predesignated job. Part of that is recognizing the building age and construction type. It has a subfloor maybe basement, balloon frame construction , true cut wood( real 2” x 4” and such). This is NOT lightweight construction! Many homes like this have attic vents to the front directly over the fire that allows fire to easily get into the attic space. That being said. Vent holes allow the super heated fire gases to escape vertically and creates a better working environment for the hosers on the interior. I can’t count the times I’ve crawled into the fire and wondering “ what’s taking the truck boy’s so long to vent??!” It’s frickin hot….” And noting the instant they make the cut and punch through the ceiling. The difference is quite amazing. Now add properly coordinated positive pressure ventilation. You have just created your own ‘flow path’. Working in what you can see on the interior allows you to work effectively. Instead of fumbling around looking feeling for and hoping someone brought the TIC camera. When my FD got good at positive pressure and vertical ventilation, the smoke baked FF smell went away after a week instead of smelling like smoke for 3-4 weeks when sweating or showering. That’s called CANCER PREVENTION!!! All this was learned over the last 39 plus years of riding the rig and ‘slaying the dragon’. 29 of those years were in San Bernardino City Look for “Inside The Command Post” by Mike Alder.

[@oldskier3019]

How about, put your tank water on all that burning stuff through the deck gun within the first minute of arrival? Then you don't have to think about all that other stuff.

[@firemanjoe4014]

It was obviously coming out of the peak of the roof. As a 27-year veteran in firefighting, I would say ventilate but sound the roof on the way up to make sure it is solid. If you know where the seat of the fire is and can get directly above it, for one it can help limit the spread of the fire, and secondly, it could let out a LOT of heat that could later compromise the structure. As a fire Captain, I probably would have tried to make contact with the owners of the house on the b-side to investigate whether or not the flames, and/or enough heat got through the soffit to start any fire there. I'm watching further after my original comment and finding that an investigation of the B side house was well warranted

[@memikecraig]

Is it norm that vertical vent groups would be all the way on to the peak of a structure before the mainline was even charged?

[@CobisTaba]

I am no firefighter, so take my comment with that in mind. When I watch firefighting in my country (NL) their main concern is always avoiding a spreading. They would probably let house 1 burn out, not much to save there, but focus on securing house 2 and perhaps 3 to the right. Here they seemed to put very litttle water on house two. Why?

[@crabcrab2024]

Preventing is boring and non-heroic. So the VV team is showing off on the roof of the burning building instead of preventing the spread.

[@icysteve46]

So It was 6 min. From when fire 1st peeked through the roof of house two to when water was put to the fire. In your opinion is that a good response time from crews that were already laid out fighting the fire in house one. And do you think more attention could have been alloted to the exposure house being it had already caught fire at the beginning.

[@VTwin4Christ]

9:30 - why weren't they cooling the neighboring house... There was a couple FFers just wondering around with no gloves and picking up hoses... They could have grabbed a line to cool thei exposures to mitigate loss.

[@oldskier3019]

0:30 Why weren't they eliminating all this Visible Burning Material with the tank water through the Deck Gun in the first minute they were there? Then Protection wouldn't have been needed.

[@Skippy2539]

Right now I am only trained in bush firefighting and I'm in a different country so my input probably doesn't mean much. But I think vertical venting should be used if the situation is needed. If you have a large commercial building I would say yes to stop its spread or large multi story dwellings or dwellings with multiple apartments within them. But if you have a structure with no occupants and isn't a threat to surrounding structures or any exposures I would say no as their really is no need to risk crews if their is much gain to come from it. Again I'm no expert nor experienced so if their is anything that I can be corrected on please do so, so I can further my knowledge

[@oldskier3019]

VVing spreads the fire throughout the structure it does not contain or eliminate it like opening the fire room window. Think about that.

[@Linknasty]

I think they should keep doing ventilations because you never know if there are victims still in the structure.

[@frankcolorado5687]

The problem with vertical ventilation in situations like this, are that there is no chance or very very slim chance of any form of life within a fully involved structure like this, and the structure is already clearly horizontally ventilated, I think putting the majority of resources in protecting exposures, and stopping the spread of the fire makes much more sense

[@LauRoot892]

You forgot your name ?😂

[@ElmarLecher]

In europe vertical ventilation is a no-go. Seeing that in videos from the US is always bizarre.

[@pjford1118]

What are your views on the current trend of watering down building codes? Here in Ontario Canada the building code in the 70's was houses had to be 6 feet from the property lines, or be fire proof with no penetrations. Currently in new subdivisions the houses can be very close, and have plastic siding and windows on the close walls.

[@eliasthienpont6330]

Our town (600 pop) has both city and rural fire departments. They are merged now but the Rural Department was separate because it got separate federal funding. As the fed envisioned it, the Rural department would bring and operate the truck, and the farmer and his employees/family would fight the fire. (well, what can you expect from the fed)--of course others would help, but they have to come in from a long distance even to get to the fire house. Better one piece of equipment get out there first.

[@eliasthienpont6330]

Yeah, I knew ABCD, but FDNY uses 1, 2, 3, 4... Side 3 Floor 3.... gets confusing quickly, but that is how they do it. Go Figure. By the time they got that hose untangled and charged the B exposure was already toast!

[@nicholaswood5180]

Being that heat rises, ventilation from the roof is better cause it clears out a lot of heat and smoke that builds up along the ceiling, ventilation through windows dosnt help because there will still beat heat and smoke above the window that dosnt get out

[@xxkillerkane420xx8]

As far as vertical vs horizontal ventilation, they both have they’re own pros and cons. In this scene we would most likely gone horizontal and kept crews off the roof due to the full involvement of the structure and an all clear given for the structure. Now with that said, if there was a person in the structure and we were entering to conduct an S&R we would have guys on the roof with ladders from peak to gutter to spread the weight and they would ventilate. In regards to the bravo exposure, we would have been inside that house pulling ceiling after having the eaves in flame like that. Maybe they did but that house showed signs of extension even after they had water on it. We are a small vol department and our main focus would have been the exposure since the main structure was a total loss on arrival. So maybe that’s why I noticed the exposure showing signs of extension.

[@rosenwolf7892]

Just to add to your Line comments on charging. dont forget those line are charged to 100lbs of pressure. which adds to the trouble untangling them when they tangle like that. roof venting depends on what type of structure it is and if there are other ways to ventilate in the highest part of the structure. like all fires, it is situational in my opinion

[@DerekS8625]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but at 11:28, wasn't that a flashover in the attic?

[@davidkirkham6493]

I been a fire department 32 years yes we should

[@arishtat4523]

I've always been astonished by how close residential houses are to each other in the US. I guess there are no building code or zoning regulations that prevent this. In many countries the regulations are pretty strict as in "if the houses are less than 6 m apart, there has to a fire wall."

[@MichaelCook1981]

10’ is the minimum in the US.

[@tracker1171]

Vertical venting keep doing it.

[@TheModernSnipez]

Vertical ventilation has its place. What appears to be a fully involved house, although we can't see the rear so that could be wrong, with no occupants, seems to be a bit risky for me. Risk a little to save a little, risk a lot to save a lot. Putting guys on the roof on the B exposure and sending your second line there wouldn't be a bad idea. But don't have a full picture. Excellent work regardless.

[@kimberlyboysza4954]

I believe that ventilation should continue. I believe it cuts down the chance of flashover.

[@marshanotmarcia7433]

With all of the solar roofs on homes nowadays, that vertical venting will soon enough become a non entity entirely…..

[@brd400]

If there’s bars like that on the window you can rest assured it’s in the freaking hard part of town. Normal people don’t have windows like that

[@Rocky-be7gy]

The 🔵 blue helmets are Assigned to the RAs Rescue Ambulances being BLS or. ALS

[@Rocky-be7gy]

Which are Also firefighters

[@eriksand9262]

If this is in the LA area. I believe the blue helmets are for the private ambulance companies. Let's people know they are strictly just EMS, and not also firefighters.

[@philipvandevoorde7647]

The second house on the bravo side was already showing signs of fire. They should have deployed the second handline into that structure and investigated from within that house.

[@oldskier3019]

Do you mean on the left side? If you know where the Front is, you don't have to think about where the Left side is by turning Bravo back into left.