I Still Can't Decide if I Like Nier: Automata | Games That Defined Me

[@magicfibre]

Cool video! I disagree with a few points, but one important remark I have is that the aliens quest is very relevant to the story. The premise of the game is that the androids and the machines are fighting a proxy war on behalf of, respectively, humans and aliens. Later on, you find out that humans are also gone, just like the aliens. The quest sets up some of the most important philosophical points of the game - since neither side has any master anymore, what purpose is left for them? Are their lives now theirs, and not their creators'? Since they are no longer just robots fulfilling a purpose, can they consider themselves to be alive? I do agree that it should have had a lot more set up though, so that it would actually feel like a twist in the moment.

[@korneliuspgk527]

I was just about to comment that! I think it's a really important thing he missed

[@PorungaSan]

Yeah. And not just this - The video pushes the idea that the primary "point" of the game is the cycle of revenge. That's just a small byproduct of the actual main theme - purposefulness (or purposelessness), meaning of existence (or lack thereof), the willingness to continue 'living' or putting a stop to ones pain. Some choose to exist so they can fight for some "noble" purpose, some choose to exist for revenge, some choose selfishness, and many chose to just end it. The game is asking - is there a point - when nothing has any meaning beyond what meaning you want to assign to it, do you still want to continue? do you still want to try again for a different outcome?

[@Popirnot]

​@@PorungaSanso... the game is POINTLESS! Got it

[@PorungaSan]

@@Popirnot just like life yeah

[@Popirnot]

@PorungaSan your life may not have a point, but mine does. it's drowning myself in whiskey.

[@kairynnru]

I honestly just found this video on a whim, and its exactly what I needed. I am so sick of seeing critics cite a dollar/hour ratio; I honestly struggle with that since gaming is such a different experience to most other hobbies, and you are constantly starting from ground 0 with each new game versus building upon skills you already have. I think the investment is much more than a traditional hobby. I have been interested in this game for awhile, but I saw mixed reviews when it came to the first 10 hours. As a person who has thought about starting this several times I just can't find the justification to sink hours and hours in new games anymore. Persona 5 - despite me loving the series was a breaking point - it had a good narrative, but as I get older I don't know if I want to be waiting 10, 15, 20 hours anymore. RPGs are my favorite genre, but sometimes I feel like I'm getting left behind. I do love Taro's ability to tell a story, and his philosophical rants (I played a few Drakengards), so I think this helped me just commit to watching the story in chunks online (and maybe the anime in January), as I feel like the story is worth my time. It makes me sad that I probably won't have the time to get around and actually play it, but its easier to justify 5 or so hours to myself rather than 40. (Thank you for the review style. Its refreshing and what I really have needed and was looking for. I really like it, so ofc I subscribed)

[@FirstFive]

Well, that exact sort of dilemma is what I'm here to help with! Thank you for sharing. It's always heartening to know that there are folks out there getting real value out of my reviews.

[@MicahEdmonds]

Finally got around to watching this. Brilliant stuff, next level writing here. Super self aware and really engaging. You hit all the spots of why I bounced very hard off this title (it's the opening) and confirmed that it really isn't the kind of game for me, doing a whole lot of things I find extremely grating, but you still managed to bring up those complaints in a respectful way which sold your love for it. I'll never try playing it again, and I think I understand a lot more now about why, and who it's actually for. Big ups, solid af work.

[@vinrzr]

Great video! I can relate to most of your views on Nier Automata. The game is not perfect, but it remains one of my favorites. What are your general thoughts on replaying games? Is there a game you always come back to?

[@FirstFive]

There's one or two, usually either that are incredibly short (Doom) or feature some form of roguelike gameplay that I come back to and just want to play a little more (Slay the Spire or the like). There are many more I'd love to replay, then repeatedly look at the 80 hour runtime and decide "maybe next year" (any Persona game, Trails in the Sky...any RPG, really.)

[@myusername3689]

You really don’t need anything to be perfect to have a positive feeling towards it. Hell as a matter of fact, you don’t even need things to be good to have a positive liking to them. Of course I’m not saying Nier Automata is bad and I have a deep love for the game (for really personal and specific reasons that I’m 99% sure doesn’t apply to anyone else because of just how specific it is). I don’t have the knowledge to determine what is “good” but “good” definitely doesn’t mean “whatever I like”.

[@mp32298]

@@myusername3689 Doesn't need to be perfect but it does need to be good though

[@miilexthemii9353]

I was in a constant state of thinking why i like this game after i finish it: why do i want to replay it why is it so engaging to me, why the fuck do i like the story but then i realized from this video that... The repetitiveness is kinda the point and I'm not saying "oh for the sake of the story" that kinda shit that's the reason why i love this game and was engaged all the way threw the end because it uses that repetitiveness and convoluted-ness to make one of the most experimental, weird, dumb, physiological and existential story i have ever seen and i think the reason why it gotten so much praise is because of how willing it is to brake the mole of video game conventions while still being a worthwhile experience despite and that is true with the creators other works because from what I heard they are basically weren't as good as they can be but still have incredibly interesting narratives that rewards the player for their curiosity if it means having to sit threw questionable design decisions (i really need to play does games some day i like suffering sometimes) and as i know from automata is that but better. A game with questionable design decisions, weird passing but with a engaging story that rewards curiosity on top of everything else. It just better compared to the creator other works.

[@SocraTetris]

Hello Alex! I'm also an Alex with a limited review lens of highlighting philosophy in games. I have learned that, with the original Nier as well, Route A is perfectly fine for people with limited interest/enjoyment. It is an easier action game with a satisfying conclusion. I just add to my recommendation that, if a person likes Route A, it is a game with a lot more to offer. But most people who arent feeling it shouldnt be pushed to go further as so many of us fans do. Great video! I like your core concept, and I'll be sticking around 👍🏾

[@FirstFive]

Hey fellow Alex! Thanks for stopping in! I think that's a perfectly fine way of handling it. It is true that Route A gives a reasonable amount of closure and you could have a perfectly fine story just from that. In that regard, it is quite well designed! I'm hoping I'll get a chance to watch some of your stuff in turn over the next few days! I do love channels that look at philosophy in games!

[@whathappenswhenimbored]

This might just be me coping since my lack of free time caused me to take about a year to completely play through Nier: Automata, but it works surprisingly well as a game that you only play for a couple hours each week. It's more like a tv show, the main points of the story are reinforced every so often, there are various different narrative breaks, simple yet varied gameplay, etc.

[@chrisbyerly]

Thank you. The game presents a lot of creative ways to rethink narrative and how to integrate its systems into the gameplay in a meta way, but everyone claiming this game is a masterpiece is high on the perceived depth the game is trying desperately to push on the player. It asks a lot of questions through its story without ever really connecting them with any narrative throughline, and the repetitive gameplay seems almost entirely removed from the story itself. The only redeeming thing I walked away with was that the game was clearly approached in a more thoughtful way than most other games are, and that sense is communicated through the tone of the game, both through its music and atmosphere as well as the small vignettes that they failed to tie together in any meaningful way.

[@saaaaaaaaalt838]

Oh boy this game. I fell in love with it back when I first played it. Done 6 full A to E playthroughs in my time with it. The first 4 were in a continuous stream where I didn't play any other games. Normal, Hard, then Very hard. Finally, after I got the fruit thing that lowers your level, I copied my save and did another whole playthrough on VH while levelling up as little as possible so most of the game at level one. Afterwards, I've come back and played through on normal again with my own custom rule set (mostly limiting ranged combat options and healing). I love this game and it's combat but yeah, it will never not be hard to recommend.

[@justanotherguy9102]

You got to the forest zone in five hours? I'm pretty sure I was still in the desert by then.

[@invinciblemikey]

Literally lol. I feel like automata works so much better when you actually take the time to explore it and do things like side quests

[@rickydolbier1338]

I like to think that routes A and B is just the setup. The introductory to the actual game (hell even the game hints at this with the title drop being during route C). The equivelant of reading Player Handbook for my D&D nerds... But like with D&D, after you get through those couple hours of monotonous high's and low's, you get a game that really cuts deep into your heartstrings, a true 10/10 from endings C to E. A game truly like no other.

[@Popirnot]

Not really. The only part that was sad was the whole thing with Pascal, and that felt super cheap

[@rickydolbier1338]

@@Popirnot I can't speak for your experience, but I can speak for my own.

[@mistman_161]

Basically, Yoko Taro's games are good but they're niche for a reason

[@Popirnot]

Good as a concept is a human construct

[@ScherFire]

Hey, just wanted to let you know I think this is maybe your best work to date- you should be proud of this one.

[@73Selene]

I'm so glad I'm not the only person who liked 9S's playstyle. Also: I would LOVE to see your thoughts on Nier Replicant. Between Automata and Replicant, Replicant is my favorite (despite having to play it more times than automata to finish the game). Yoko Taro has a way of making incredible games that are hard to critique

[@Basedard]

The only people I know who don't like the game are people who couldn't tell me what it's actually about. They'll say something silly like its about Androids fighting Machines.

[@invinciblemikey]

Exactly. I’ve never seen a good take on it from someone who dislikes it. One of the most commonly parroted talking points I’ve seen is that the game sounds like it’s regurgitating shit from a philosophy 101 class, and while I can see how people might come to that conclusion or why they might find the game pretentious, if you look closer, the game very clearly has its own philosophical identity (one that is not as nihilistic as people like to believe either) and though it does like to make some more surface level philosophy references sometimes I don’t think that is something that should be experience ruining. I don’t know, maybe I’m just biased because it’s my favorite game ever, but I can’t understand why anybody would hate it

[@skeltaldelegate5408]

Despite what the mass consensus (mostly people who've only played Automata) says, Automata does require certain experiences from previous titles in the Drakenier series. Most people shrug off the connections as a "spin off" when that couldn't be any more wrong when it comes to the overarching plot and thematic continuity. I hate to say it, but most of the praise comes from people who barely know what they're talking about. People project this hyper philosophical and existential image onto a game which is much more than just some pretentious jargon. It is part of a whole experience and a refreshingly more hopeful approach in comparison to Drag-On Dragoon and the original Nier (Replicant).

[@miles_tails0511]

I used to play NieR automata in my university days in-between project crunches and studies. In hindsight, It felt to me like relationships - you gotta work on it for it to come back and shower you with love. And the good thing about hindsight enjoyment? A good chunk of nier’s life lessons lives in you forever ❤

[@dtConfect]

I want to preface this by saying that I love your content, and this is in-no-way intended to be an attack, but I disagree with almost everything you say in this video, and I think I understand (partly) why. Re tedious sidequests: I found them mostly interesting or pleasant little distractions, even the box-pushing you later mention. Adam Millard made a video recently about fishing minigames and other distractions in games which I think is relevant. At 19:00 ish you say that it was you "job to play [the game] from nine to five". I don't think this is how most people will engage with this content - it's certainly not what I did, which is probably why it didn't bother me. As for the rest of it - I think the side-quests mirroring theming of the main story is in-itself thematic: the game is about cycles as repetition. The world has gone on in this state for a long, long time, repeating the same patterns, and it's your job to break it. I think that's where your reading of the main story differs a lot from mine also: I never thought that the aliens or Adam and Eve were important things the narrative was trying to push, nor even the cycle of revenge. In my opinion it's more about cycles in general, with the Aliens being ancient history and Adam and Eve doing what they do all playing into that theme. I didn't have the issues you describe with the combat either (bullet sponges etc.) and I thought it had plenty of freedom of expression and mechanics to control the fight, not just counters. For those reasons, perhaps, I thoroughly enjoyed Route A, and the rest. I'm the first person to brush off the "it gets good after 10 hours" argument - I always hate to hear that about JRPGs etc. - but I absolutely did not feel that way here.

[@Homophonic]

Bro managed to somehow sneak in the Zorah magdaros quest track in a nier automata review

[@joshemeloshe9453]

I beat nier automata’s true ending a few weeks ago and it was genuinely one of the biggest wastes of times I’ve ever experienced in a big budget game. The combat was absolutely brain dead on 2b and 9s (which made doing side quests, fusing chips, or finding stronger weapons completely pointless), the multiple route system did not provide nearly enough quality ideas to make the time sync worth it, the characters to me are largely uninteresting or downright poorly written, the philosophy aspect has nothing of its own to say and feels more like the devs copy and pasted from an “intro to philosophy” book (every single idea the game presents is done infinitely better is other media), etc. I’ve been watching a lot of videos on the game because I’m honest to god trying to figure out why it’s so critically acclaimed. (Other than people thirsting over 2b’s ass)

[@critical_6164]

Nier: replicant as a lot more better in writing, try giving that a shot. Though i will say that it’s a remaster of a 2010 game, and the combat didn’t really improve that much in the remaster, so gameplay wise, it’s pretty bad, a lot worse than nier automata. But the storywriting is worth it.

[@realkingofantarctica]

I do feel privileged to be able to reset my expectations for every piece of fiction I ever play/read/watch. I put my faith (and more importantly, my time) into a piece of fiction and trust that it will successfully tell me the story it attempts to, and I will embrace any amount of awkwardness and jank for that payoff. Sometimes, I am disappointed, but at least I know that I gave it a chance.

[@nesoukkefka1741]

I think they are definitly games that are slow burner, they take a long time to go off, and I'll agree that this game aren't for everyone, it also depend of the player, I personnaly enjoy the Run A, probably because it being a Yoko Taro game I took it as just the introduction where you discover the world, try getting your own opinion and conclusion on thing, and like Nier I was expecting that a second will offer you a new perspective that recontextualize everything, which is what Run B is and I don't know I just like this approach, it might be annoying to some but I like it, cause I get the feeling this is truly something only video games can make it works. I do have a similar experience to you and Nier Automata recently with Persona 3, by the end of the game I ended truly loving Persona 3, however the first 20 hours were really not great to me, pass the prologue which is cool, the story takes a big step back, and it was mostly just setting things of but nothing truly meaningful or interesting happens during this first 20 hours, and it's truly at a certain moment of the story that finally all that set up start paying off, the story fully embraces his main theme of death, and the story gets really good culminating in an amazing final, and it was great and I still considere the game to be great because of that, but damn these first 20 hours were a pain to get through.

[@yellaturd]

I do really like a lot about this game but playing through route B had me too burnt out to keep playing when I finally hit route C. I'd like to go back and finish the story one day but I'm not sure if I will.

[@christianjadot4459]

NieR Automata is one of those games that is "Greater as a whole than the sum of its parts." Nothing is absolutely great about it (with the exception of the music). But it is a great game and is easily on my top 5 list of all time video games. It's like a Nirvana song, or Cobra Kia, it has no right being as good as it is.

[@andrewpullen7956]

I can agree with most of what you said. However Nirvana has a lot of great shit. In Utero is an almost perfect album.

[@lanzer22]

Some of the best Sci-Fi stories such as 2001, Primer, Predestination, etc are never blockbuster that everyone watched and this title is the same. They all cover some deep and existential topics and cut deeply for those who ask the deep meaningful questions that the title guides you to ponder. But even the act to philosophize is something reserved for minority of us as audience. If it's a perfect game for everyone then it's not a deep and philosophical game comparatively speaking.

[@Durz0.]

This game ruined games for me. Story based games aren’t the same anymore

[@matthewlugo2417]

Exactly no game has come close, except nier but thats about it

[@Popirnot]

​@@matthewlugo2417try soma

[@pokemaniacdavid]

That’s how I felt after the Mother series.. then I got into smt and then I stumbled across this 7 year old game.. there’s something else out there that will leave an impact, it’s just waiting until we are ready to receive the message. Peace.

[@critical_6164]

@@pokemaniacdavid shin megami tensei games cant really be compared to nier, they’re way too different as games.

[@mozey9366]

As the first time I played this game, I scolded this game so hard. That, it's literally the most unreasonable shit in the world. No else is than automata. It's so uncommonly specific. But now, if u wanna me answer this question again, i would admit that, It is. But not really is. The whole story is expressed in a very special way compared to the whole game industry. The undercurrent is soo thick and unclear. As to the whole story, it is managed way fragmentedly, BUT alsoo kinda in a vision of an extremely realistic way, and so as to you can see the whole tale is very fluent in its own way. and there's also a Nier game on mobile called incarnation. The whole story is telling in another parallel universe with tons of separated small montages and explaining multiple details about Nier series. If they operating games in this way, not all players would know what's the designers talking about. Being scolded is its retribution. For both questions, is automata a chaotic trash, or a well designed and reasonable masterpiece like others, I would tell both, maybe it is, but not really is.

[@artOVtrolling]

I bought the game for Steam, Switch and PS5 and deleted saves and replayed the full 3 routes again. That means I’ve played through the full game 6 times. I lack the right to say I don’t love this game. It’s my number 1.

[@KarolaTea]

^ This is how you're supposed to review Nier: Automata. Great video :) Like you said, there'll always be things that are good/we like _despite_ them being bad in some other way that's usually more important. I don't think that makes those metrics/review styles imperfect. Just yanno, there'll always be exceptions to the rule. A tip friends gave me for the non-savepoint intro: Set the game to easiest mode just to get through it and save. Then set it to whatever difficulty you actually want to play at. Kinda wastes the good intro a bit... but at least it'll waste less of your time?

[@kowabonga3552]

What game is this 1:22 looks quite interesting.

[@matiaslopez6144]

Nier was one of the first great videogames that I didn't finish because of time constraints. I crawled to the first ending, without enjoying it that much because of all the mind numbing chores that removed me from the excelent mood of the game, and when it demmanded me to play it one more time I just couldn't. Thanks to this and other reviews, I could enjoy it nevertheless

[@d3monition]

A Yoko Taro fan might say that he intentionally did that to show us the life of the Androids because they are always repeating the same things

[@myusername3689]

@@d3monition Sacrifices And of course Yoko Taro does what Yoko Taro wants and fans can just suck it if they don’t like it.

[@matthewlugo2417]

Then u didnt even beat automata, route A and B are the prolouge to the actual game and experience

[@Popirnot]

​@matthewlugo2417 a 20-hour prolog, IS BAD GAME DESIGN

[@marg0tten]

totay i learned that in a videogame only one character at a time is allowed to feel one kind of emotions. is this video made from a tiktoker? lul

[@rredix]

Completing side quests on the B playthrough is so much better. You have higher level and better chips and the hacking trims a lot of time and difficulty off of them

[@silvanderee3647]

You should play Nier Replicant, it's similair to this game but without the great starts. After the first ending it really starts it gets going and its great.

[@cynt4416]

Well I mean the theme of the game is how meaningless everything is. So for 9s, what's the point of learning from those around? What for? Same reason why they show the alien is long dead. Them being dead are not important. The purpose of existence for the machine being gone is, which to win the war for the alien. And of course the human being extinct too.

[@plantagominor722]

Hey what was that tactics game around the 1:00 mark?

[@larspenning2145]

it is called Symphony of War I believe. He did a video on it not too long ago. I have been playing it with a friend and it is a lot of fun!

[@TrollPrince]

Symphony of War: The Nephilim Saga, for desktops and switch. absolutely fantastic game, channels the old tactics ogre style but without a lot of the really poorly thought out stuff

[@plantagominor722]

@@larspenning2145 Thank you! It looks awesome.

[@VastumTempus]

Nice FFXIV song you threw in there.

[@TimKrief]

This review was too long I only watched the first 5 minutes and I didn't get any of it! (jk 😂) thanks for this great review and I'm happy to see that you are fully aware of the limits of your analysis system and take it into account when reviewing games 🙂. I'll chip in as soon as I have the means to do it. Continue your great work!

[@Qrinity]

to each their own. if you want your time to be respected within the first 5 hrs then it is not the game for you.

[@invinciblemikey]

Goes for yoko taro games in general honestly. He is an absolute master of storytelling but the drakenier games are niche for a reason because the specific way their stories are told requires high player investment. You really have to take your time with them

[@RavenTeamCharlie]

Subbed in under 1 minute given what you said in that time 👏👏👏

[@VegaVibing]

definitely randomly clicked here cause of the thumbnail. respect it, but I definitely can't live my life worrying about how much time anything took me to complete.

[@robotpanda77]

I dont really get the concept of wanting a game to require a small amount of time to complete. Whats the difference between a great 10 hour game and two great 5 hour games? You dont want a grindy game sure. But if it has a long solid story thats better surely. If you cant invest more than an hour once a week then find a new hobby or manage your life better. If it's important to you, you'll make time for it. Dont work yourself to death at a job you hate.

[@blankadams3120]

I wanted to like Nier, I really did. I had only heard good things... I managed to get to... the forest king? I think that was the last thing I did? And put the game down. I'd heard that the game goes into some very heavy stuff, no worries, I can handle heavy, and, yet, here, by the time I'd gotten to this point, the deepest thing I had come on was either the reframing of the Ship of Theseus, or the idea that a lo-o-ot of robots can suddenly create life? "Meh" said I... And, then, I played FF14 through Endwalker, and the Nier raids were in there somewhere, and I heard Yoko Tarro was directly making the decisions for how the mobs and bosses would react and attack and such, and, seeing as everything was a goddamn bullet sponge in those raids, I think I figured out why I hated Nier... well, that and the not fully connected to the storytelling the bosses presented...

[@critical_6164]

Nier is kind of like elden ring, storywise. You really gotta pay attention to every single thing, from every item description to every word said in the games with a minimum iq of 125 to completely understand it. Unfortunately, i’m too lazy and i never came to fully understand or appreciate nier until i played the prequel to nier automata, aka nier: replicant. That game got me hooked, and it’s the game that made me read hours onto the lore of nier. It wasn’t until then that i started calling this franchise a masterpiece.

[@invinciblemikey]

You quit the game WAY before any of the coolest shit happens man

[@demus89]

I played through the a route and found the plot and character archs lackluster. Some of the characters seemed childish and the philosophical tropes weren't all that deep. Idk mabey it gets deeper upon more play throughs. 10/10 sweet android butt

[@JustWatoo]

You have no idea what this game is about until you have played through route C (and got the D and E endings)

[@invinciblemikey]

You stopped before anything genuinely got good. Route A is the absolute baseline of the story. Route B introduces new info to Route A that alters how you perceived that first route and the game’s world. Route C is where shit actually starts to go down and the game goes from good to great. You can’t have anything even close to a fully formed opinion on Automata just by playing Route A and there is a reason that the game specifically urges you to play again after you complete it for the first time

[@Axonteer]

Deffo not a game for me, i like the artstyle but i usually struggle extreamly to get into weird plot logics... On the other hand i finished Pathfinder Kingmaker ... why you ask? Well i compartmentalized it plus i really liked the combat :D So i just tagged on along for the ride and did it in smth 270h over the course of half a year. Just looking at Nier (never even played the original one either) ... i just think i leave this game to the ones that enjoy such games and play my games that i like. No point in trying to force something on you because a "majority" of other people you hear like it.

[@myusername3689]

Yeah it’s totally fine that your feelings aren’t in favor of the game. I just have a minor suggestion: Don’t be like those many people who use their feelings towards the game as justification to misinform people about the game. Whether it’s jumping to conclusions and not learning more about the game before talking to others about it in a way that isn’t a guess/hypothesis or worse, intentionally withholding the truth from people with malicious intent towards the game.

[@matthewlugo2417]

So u judged a book by its cover? Theres a reason why this term exists, especially for this game cause the game makes its player a major player in its story and its focus. It definitely one of those games that will make u question your own life and existence

[@nesoukkefka1741]

@@matthewlugo2417 Nier Automata is my favorite game of all time, but let's not be blinded of it's flaws, while it does get really good, the beginning can be hard to get into, and it's a game that does require the player to fully invest in it and also ask to forgive said flaws, not all people have the time to engage with the game to the degree Nier and Nier Automata asks, and not all people will be able to accept the flaws it has and that's perfectly fine, and I think Yoko Taro himself is very self aware that his games are not for everyone and not everyone will enjoy them.

[@matthewlugo2417]

@Nesouk Kefka the game does have flaws but the game is masterpiece in terms being the only game to literally move my cold heart and make me hopeful for humanity, the main flaw i have that makes the game an unnecessary grind is the lvl system. I think if the game rid of it and was most like dmc or bayonetta where u buy new moves and you skills as player lvl up and its not just a number that says u cant fight this fight cause u will take a shit ton of damage

[@nesoukkefka1741]

@@matthewlugo2417 OH Don't get me wrong I do also think the game is a masterpiece, just not for everyone.

[@jjc7951]

I agree with this very much.

[@fhjunior6183]

Thanks for the vid

[@KrystallTrujillo]

Not going to lie: I missed like 3 min. Of the video cause my mind couldn't comprehend that the Miduarsormr theme from FF14 was playing over a NeiR video 🤣

[@JacoB-wp4ws]

for me nier replicant is 10x better than automata story wise, but route c in nier automata is far better than a and b they almost felt like a prologue and route c as an actual game/sequel type of feeling

[@seamusmcgraw7152]

HOW CAN YOU NOT LIKE IT

[@Popirnot]

Is that a statement or a question?

[@metal_fusion]

Hi everyone! anime Nier?

[@lostmarble540]

I have yet to play this game, but it's disappointing hearing how bland that the side quests are. I'd heard about how the industrial robots you fight in the beginning actually have their own little society and religion and that seemed like such an interesting world-building element.

[@myusername3689]

A common and rather valid critique is that the side quests are absolutely necessary if you want all the pieces of the story(all the nuance, all the sense, etc), and to add onto that; you have certain important information that is stored away in secret locations that aren’t marked so you’re gonna need to be a hardcore detail finder to find them without help and on the first try.

[@TheDwagonHD]

I heard another reviewer say that roughly 80% of the side stories are interesting. So its definately a taste thing. But i think its more like: the stuff you do in the side quests are bland, but the actual themes and stories are either good, interesting or relevant to the main story. Iirc alot of them requires alot of running across the map so there is alot of travel time. Id recommend for anyone to just ask a friend that has played the game and liked it if its worth to play. (Note, they in turn have to know your tastes pretty well) Personally i dont think the side quests are necessary to enjoy the main story. Its even one of those games id recommend turning down the difficulty if you dont want to do alot of side stuff, but also dont want to bash your head into if you get too outleveled by the story.

[@evanmiller4502]

like over half of the side quests are some of the best in all of gaming narrative wise

[@steampunkerella]

a game i enjoy hearing about but will never play

[@matthewlugo2417]

Your honestly missing out it was the real game of that year

[@Popirnot]

Eh, watch a story summary online

[@gangwu4541]

Thank you for the video man. Here is my thought, honest thoughts on this game and NieR in general. This game and NieR Replicant all had similar issues. Story is very forced on you with shallow emotional narrative and boring side quests and you have to deal with the low-budget driven solution of prolong the game play time by replay many parts of the same game multiple times in order to kinda fully understand what Yoko Taro the director had to say. The characters are not good at communications with each other, just like any other Japanese anime girls and boys which leads to some freaking annoying moments in my entire gaming life. The maps are lame and repetitive in general, enemies are dump and also very repetitive. BUT, But I still keeping it on my hard drive even though I have already completed all endings more than once and I really don’t care about the hugely overhyped so called “NieR’s deep philosophical teachings of humanity”. The only reason is the OST. This is really what keep this franchise alive for me to be honest.I dislike Yoko Taro’s dark tone and the whole “your actions are hopeless/pointless” point of view. It’s a hard world we are living, so I want more hope and courage in the media of gaming. Like back in the early 2000s, I feel Japanese devs are going into this suicide abyss of self denial and self criticism, way too much! This is just my personal opinion of course. I do enjoyed the game when I play it and I don’t regret spent money and time on it. I just don’t like people calling it something it is not really.

[@vicelcia9470]

I think you missed the whole point of this video.

[@Serocco]

Nier Automata is the most hopeful story written by Yoko Taro. You definitely didn't care enough about the story, otherwise you'd know that.

[@lastchance2849]

I’d rather a game that gets good after 10 hours than a game that gets boring after 30

[@Popirnot]

I mean, a game could just be a good period .

[@mjuno2909]

Late to comment, but this video puts into words exactly how I feel about this game. It's hard to articulate how it's both a masterpiece and kinda mid at the same time, lol

[@bobsinclair8990]

read the title, read the channel description, blocked the channel

[@cosmicprison9819]

See, I think the exact opposite is the case: Route A is fun, because it's the most combat-intensive, everything is new, and this is where Platinum Games's input really shines. Route B gets repetitive, because the characters spent so much time together the first time that a lot of repeats are bound / forced to happen. But at least, when you repeat something that was good the first time, you can't do a whole lot of things wrong. Route C is then where Nier: Automata completely drops the ball for me. Character motivations stop making sense, plot continuity be damned (the magically-repairing bridge at the shopping mall is only the tip of the iceberg), new repetitive parts are added (those three recycling units you have to invade to get into the tower being the most notorious cases), new characters are thrown into the mix without proper setup (Devola and Popola receive no proper introduction to anyone who isn't already part of Yoko Taro's fold). All of this happens in the name of "subverting expectations", and ham-fisted, desperate attempts to make the player sad. Which on me was kind of as effective as Daenerys burning down King's Landing in Season 8 of Game of Thrones: If character choices no longer make sense, and I can no longer relate to the characters, I no longer have a reason to care about them, no matter how tragic the creator is trying to frame the events happening to them (or which are happening by their own hands). And the credits fight of ending E is the icing on that self-indulgent cake, since whatever you're doing there no longer has any connection to the plot or characters at all - and the game needs to construct some contrived explanation what you're supposedly doing for 2B, 9S, and A2 by shooting at the developers' names. Again, the game is trying to manipulate emotions out of the player base here - largely, though, by relying on the same track it played in the previous credits scenes. "Weight of the World" does the majority of the heavy lifting here as a catchy Disney ballad, more so than the particular events in ending E. Especially given that the previous endings A - D are just as desperate in trying to make the player emotional (endings A and B immediately throw that away, though, by twisting the ending into something positive; and even if that hadn't happened, there still would have been a backup of 9S's consciousness at the bunker, right?). I don't know how many people in this comments section are familiar with the genre of exploitation films. Usually, it refers to movies that are particularly violent, i.e., the emotion they are trying to exploit is shock and/or disgust. But I for one think there is a form of emotional exploitation stories, too - where the story is trying to exploit sadness / empathy, no matter how many plot contrivances are necessary to get there. These stories can be recognised by characters being largely flat and devoid of personality, but many in the audience are tricked into empathising with them, merely due to how many bad external things happen to them. I must admit I fell for that tactic the first time, too - it just wasn't with NieR: Automata, since I already recognised that tactic by then. The first time I personally encountered this narrative strategy, however, was Terry Goodkind's "Sword of Truth" series.

[@Serocco]

It sounds like you prefer simple hero vs villain stories rather than complex and nuanced "hero was always the monster" stories which Nier Replicant and Automata are about. You built up such a defense mechanism against "emotional exploitation" that it clouded your judgment. Everything that you hated about Route C-E is what makes Automata great, because it is tonally consistent, the character writing is at its best, and the events that happen all enhance the experiences for the players and the characters. But no, in fact, you're a contrarian. Everything the story does, you found a reason to dislike it. Small moments that build on character and give them more depth? Nope, to you, that's emotionally manipulative... when that's just basic storytelling. It's honestly a very boring way to view any game or any story, let alone Automata.

[@cosmicprison9819]

@@Serocco I’ve read and watched quite a few nuanced and complex characters in my lifetime, and I do enjoy them. Neither 2B nor 9S or A2 are one of them. Perhaps because Yoko Taro intentionally ignored a lot of traditional writing advice. He explained himself in one of his talks that he starts writing stories from the scene he wants to have the maximum emotional impact (I think he used one of the Drakengard games as an example, with a character dying during her wedding). This is what I call emotional exploitation: Rather than letting the emotion emerge out of the story nationally, the writer decides “This is where I want to make the audience cry - now, how many mental backflips do I need to perform to force this scene into the story somehow?” Speaking of lethal weddings: The ones in Game of Thrones (Red and Purple Wedding) are written well, because they are the natural results of the characters’ previous actions (Rob was too naive and put his personal romantic feelings over political wisdom; Joffrey made too many enemies for himself through his tyranny). Even though they are surprising plot twists in the moment, it’s not for the sake of it - they both immediately make sense when you consider the characters’ motivations. Automata features no explanation for why the machines in Pascal’s village suddenly go berserk. It’s not tied to Pascal’s pacifist world view in any way - if it were, the village would have gotten run over by outsiders, rather than be destroyed from within. It tries to go for random tragedy, but without basing this event in Pascal’a tragic flaw. The scene at the factory isn’t directly tied to Pascal’s pacifism either, since teaching the children fear does not directly relate to that. If anything, a convinced pacifist is a pacifist out of principle - not out of fear of combat. Importantly, we never get to see Pascal teaching the children fear - it’s just mentioned in hindsight. Pascal’s arc is just one example of the deterioration of writing in Route C. A2’s fight against Hegel in the desert has nothing to do with anything. And 9S’s foray into the resource recovery unit is just a standard video-game fetch quest to pad out the runtime - not without 9S getting significantly more on my nerves as it progresses.

[@invinciblemikey]

@@Seroccohonestly lol. It can be argued that any story makes attempts to “emotionally manipulate” the audience and that some are just better at it than others. It’s such a dumb argument and makes this person sound more focused on being smarter than or “above” the story than they are on actually engaging with the story.

[@evanmiller4502]

did you play the game? route C is the route with the clearest, and most explicitly explained character motivations, and where the continuity of the plot really starts getting good and consistent. it's the first time in the game where motivations are clear

[@cosmicprison9819]

@@evanmiller4502 I know WHAT they want in Route C - the same as before, destroy as many machines as possible, as both A2 and 9S explicitly state. I do however not know WHY they still want it at this point in time, after having already discovered what a farce YoRHa is.

[@mikl3]

Repetition is a core element of videogames: repeated runs in rouguelikes, backtracking in metroidvanias, repeated fights with a hard boss, playing the same maps in competitive games... To put it even more strongly, repetition of content is one of the features of videogames that distinguish it from other interactive media. So, when people complains the Nier requires repeating the same content, I think what they really mean is that... Nier is boring to begin with.

[@Popirnot]

Yes

[@marocat4749]

imean ,yes agames have loops and stories usually too. And mirroring ndcomparing is a story telling basic.

[@Serocco]

Not really. People just don't like the hacking minigames.

[@invinciblemikey]

I mean no, not really. NieR just requires more repetition than the average game in that it is a requirement to play the entire first route a second time to get a few new bits of info and then go into Route C where the story really amps up. It’s not that NieR’s core gameplay is boring, though I can agree it is really easy and has balancing issues, but that most people don’t wanna play through the same story twice in a row. Even people that replay games often usually take time between those replays.

[@micketm3]

Nier Automata is a masterpiece !! You must understand that at the core of everything is Project Gestalt :) wich is present also in Gestalt/ Replicant. Also if you're familiar with Replicant, new one, you know about recycled s... and the w.... itself. I... we, rly want a Drakengard 3 new version or somethin' just like they did with Replicant ver. whatever :)) Also Pappa Nier, best :)

[@TheNecronmancer]

I say you should play it because its good, enough said

[@Popirnot]

Like 2 thirds of the game, are hot garbage

[@TheNecronmancer]

@@Popirnot It ain't tho, it builds the world, characters and story. Without the 2/3 then the heartbreak moments wouldn't have hit. I think the story of Adam and Eve is still compelling, they aren't fantastic villains but they work to tell the story and give a message.

[@trumplostlol3007]

Hey you are IGNORING the MOST important population of RETIREES that are the most important supporters of the gaming industry FINANCIALLY. Many baby boomers started to play video games before you were even born. Reviewing a game based on the assumption that people would never spend hundreds and even thousands of hours on video games is like telling all the seniors to dig graves for themselves cause no one will ever care about their existence ever again.

[@agreedboarart3188]

I don't think the game is a 10/10 at all, or even an 8/10. The gameplay is shallow and the story is just as so. The first game is not a masterpiece in gameplay either, but the story of that one is definitely good, unless this one.

[@matthewlugo2417]

I like niers story but automatas story is better cause it makes the player the true main character. The gameplay is insanely deep idk what ur talking about just watch combo vids and u can see there are dodge offsets, self-destruct offsets and thats just the tip of the ice berg. Nier automata despite having 2 or 3 faults in my eyes is still a masterpiece

[@ShrapnelProductionHD]

@@matthewlugo2417 playing other "spectacle action games" DMC or Bayonetta for example makes Nier's gameplay feel very shallow.

[@massaosaito4084]

This game drives me nuts, I feel like the only person who can't withstand the clumsy phylosophical crap Yoko Taro shitted all over the game. Feels sooo prententious listening to all the ideas in a game subtle as an out-of-control buffalo

[@myusername3689]

From what I have heard, supposedly Yoko Taro adds the philosophy to critique the philosophical ideas. Although this isn’t very obvious or easily accessible information so newer players like you have a much harder time finding it without people like me alerting you to their existence.

[@myusername3689]

Opinion part (ignore if you want since my feelings really aren’t important to anyone else and vice versa): I would’ve loved if instead of critiquing philosophy, Nier Automata critiques bias. Compared to those philosophical ideas, bias is a much larger and much longer lasting enduring issue that has troubled humanity for several millennia. Modern examples include political parties spreading misinformation against each other and denouncing the opponents ideas just because their opinion is different. It doesn’t matter how objectively beneficial those ideas could be, if those ideas are not from the same political party as the person viewing the ideas, that person will just denounce them. That person, depending on how biased he/she is, will also never accept the factual flaws with several ideas that his/her political party holds. In short, it’s really hard to call someone “unbiased” when they’re devoted to a political party to begin with, and likely one that has a history of unfairly attacking the opponent through misinformation. I can think of many ideas for a Nier Automata structured to convey this message instead.

[@matthewlugo2417]

Very hipster of you, if you dont like it thats fine but dont spread lies about it

[@matthewlugo2417]

Maybe you shouldn't use the word pretentious if you want anyone to take u serious or even listen to what u have to say

[@Popirnot]

Don't worry, you're not alone

[@godot1785]

i honestly hated that game and that route (where you litterly need to play the same thing with little story variations for hours) was one of the most stupid design things i ever seen

[@myusername3689]

Yeah and you know what? Yoko Taro did that intentionally. He does whatever he wants and is totally honest about it which is both endearing and annoying to many people.

[@matthewlugo2417]

Jesus christ stop spreading lies about the game, route A is beginning of the game, route B is the same game but viewed by the main character and different perspective on the story and its bosses, route C is the continuation of the story where shit really hits the fan and the "real game begins" how do i know this because the credits roll and the title actual title drop happens during this route. The multiple times u play game matter to the game cause its trying to tell the player what the core theme is and how to escape it. And this is the only game that i can remember where people u dont even know save you and u save them. Thats the final credit roll and its the best part of the whole experience that ties everything u have learned from not just the story but as real human being.

[@Popirnot]

​@matthewlugo2417 Humanity is dead is literally the only important part of b route

[@PersonMan000]

Nier feels like an amazing story made by someone who just started writing for the first time. Threads that go nowhere, obtuse and inaccessible presentation, and a constant reassurance by writer and critic alike that every frustration and flaw is "meant for a purpose," "means something deep," or "is actually necessary to the story." This comes in its gameplay too, with its many unexciting side quests and a combat system that's flashy but not very deep. I feel like folks who write these kinds of stories have a massive blindspot where the audience is, and the fact that they're people who won't just doggedly blaze through and worship their game despite all the frustrations it will bring on them when trying to get through it. Story is great, ideas are important, but an inaccessible game that doesn't actually care about its audience is a bad product to me.

[@matthewlugo2417]

U have zero idea what your talking about

[@Serocco]

Threads that go nowhere? You clearly chose to turn your brain off because every single thread is tied together during the quests and missions they happen

[@gregmus]

After 3 hours of the game I has a feeling that I'm wasting my time. Thank you for the video, I was trying to understand why everybody find it so great. I think you have to play it when you still have lot of free time

[@leonelramirez9942]

"games that defines me" bruhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[@HirschyKiss]

Man, how can you be so out of touch with the side quests? Do you not stop to READ and then THINK? They do an excellent job of showing the critical flaws of humanity and what being designed/chasing after it looks like on a wider scale than just the main cast. This is where I think your view point, and the whole concept of your channel is not just flawed, but stupid. As someone who also doesn't have time to just sit down and grind out games, except on the occasional weekend when my GF is working and I have nothing better to do, I can easily say that if a game is worth my money for what it gives, it is worth my time as well. Even if it takes several months to finish a still short game like Nier Automata and all it's side content in *checks playtime*, under 50 hours. I'm not wanting to be gatekeeper-y here, but Yoko Taro games take a little bit of paying attention and just general street smarts to appreciate, something you and your community, clearly either don't have, or are to worried about their precious time to apply here. Your video costs me nothing to watch, and it's still too pricey.

[@samoth5161]

Someone's a butthurt nier fan. It's good that you liked it but it's shallow as hell, people that don't like it aren't dumb for not liking it. Random npcs having a few lines of generic dialogue isn't that deep.

[@Popirnot]

Holy shit this man is triggered

[@JusticeforLiberty]

The Nier games are definitely not for everyone. Most people would say that you have to have an IQ around 100 to truly understand the philosophy behind it. Unfortunately, the average IQ is 60 or below for most people who complain about this game.

[@andrewpullen7956]

I think the average is like 110 or something.

[@Popirnot]

​@andrewpullen7956 average is 100 that's the point

[@andrewpullen7956]

@@Popirnot I just realized that I have misread the comment. Thank you for pointing that out to me.

[@patodesudesu]

Not worth it. Love anime, love philisophy, but this game seemed really overrated for what ive played

[@matthewlugo2417]

Then u have no idea what ur talking about

[@Popirnot]

​@@matthewlugo2417bro is on every comment I swear But I guess that's pretty hypocritical of me

[@matthewlugo2417]

@MemeLordCrusader only because i love nier with all my heart. Its my favorite game ever

[@Popirnot]

@matthewlugo2417 I played it to ending e and didn't delete my save out of spite for Yako Toro So the duality of man I guess

[@matthewlugo2417]

@MemeLordCrusader u can, but it shows how u missed the point of the game and that ur not a great human being

[@nopls9255]

I prefer gestalt/replicant over automata mainly for the story.