Fixing 22 Nosler - 22 Nosgar - Part 2

It's time to continue our tests of a better alternative to 22 Nosler brass. 6mm Hagar Hornady brass can be formed and used with a 6.8 SPC bolt in the AR platform. In this video we go through the annealing process and test out some more flat based bullets.
/ johnnysreloadingbench
/ reloading

[@rollinghillsfarmnd6368]

You mentioned the Starline 6.8 Blanks were too short and you were worried they would be to short once formed. From my experience, when brass is formed down/resized it grows in length. It may be long enough through this complicated resizing process. Although you may notice other problems such as neck deformation. Don't know. Just a thought.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I thought the exact same thing, which is why I bought this 6.8 Basic brass. The result is about 100 thousandths too short, however. instagram.com/p/BtJXSd4H7Jq/

[@rollinghillsfarmnd6368]

I did a little more research. It seems that the parent case to the 6.8spc is the .30 Remington. Not the 30 Remington AR. I believe you could form cases from these. Looks like you would have to trim them though. Don't know. Cases seem to be hard to find. Old Cartridge. Just a thought. Could be a good idea for a video though. Have a nice day.

[@jimhans1]

Johnny's Reloading Bench you didn't touch on the SD difference between the annealing times, whether before or after was better. But the SD for the last 3 groups was better than the first 3 :)

[@Jonnydeerhunter]

Thanks Alot for showing me that basic Grendel Brass....... You have my head spinning with Wildcat Ideas now........

[@arcticmonkeyfan364]

Im glad I haven't gotten into 22 Nosler yet. Thank you for diving into this mess for the rest of us!

[@robertleitz5245]

I am so addicted to your channel, i have been reloading for almost 20yrs, and learn so much from you. Please keep up the good videos, which are very informative. Thank you brother, God Bless, shoot straight, fight the good fight for the 2A, my brother in arms.

[@DatMammut76]

I think we need to pitch in and get our boy an Annealeez machine. I just got mine a few months ago and it is fantastic, has made annealing so much easier, faster, safer. Obviously the dream is an AMP machine but 1000 dollars is a tough swallow.

[@afkirby]

I’d toss in $10 for that

[@chris3383]

How much is the Annealeez ?

[@afkirby]

Annealeez is $275 I believe, the AMP is $1400. With as many regular viewers that he has I couldn’t see why we couldn’t raise enough for an AMP, it would be useful for all the calibers he reloads.

[@DatMammut76]

I agree 100% it would be useful for the vast amount of calibers he shoots, but I think it’s out of the price range a lot of people are willing to go get. An in-depth long term review of the Annealeez could sway a lot of people to pick that up though.

[@ewetho]

Don't forget the extra sets of wheels for the short cartridges like blackout and the long ones for WinMag etc...

[@smithdesignwerx]

I anneal using the salt bath method, using a lyman lead pot, and get perfect results for my 300 blackout. I highly recommend this technique as dictated on snipershide forum. I think you will find that if you start forming your starline brass that it isnt too short as the brass will flow longer as you reduce the diameter. Great show as always.

[@chris3383]

No need for apologies this was good info worth the time the next one should be really interesting!!

[@preachersdayoff]

I'm glad you got some use out of them.

[@aklaunch]

Hi Johnny, I learned from a video made by Sierra and David Tubbs to pull the expander ball when setting up your die. Once your shoulder is set up, then install it. This will save your case necks from getting work hardened during set up.

[@chris3383]

That makes a lot of sense !!

[@backnine]

Hi Johnny It makes scenes to anneal first then resize. That is the way I have done it.

[@tangobravozulu9483]

Love it! Already switched out my bolt and found brass at a local flea market! Now if we could just figure out how to revive 300 Blackout!

[@justinstruckman5831]

Glad to see that you are continuing the project. Hopefully you find the potential in this cartridge using Hagar brass as I did. Personally I found that Varget will get to compressed loads before you will run into pressure problems. 53 varmageddon bullets work well also at 2.30" but they like being loaded 2.32" which requires a lil grinding inside the magazine. I think H4895 deserves another look regardless of the velocity spreads. Varmint hunters are looking for speed vs. Group size at 300 yards and less. And the spreads will only be a factor in much longer distances. I found that it has the highest velocities for a temperature stable powder. Although CFE223 had greater velocity it would lose as much as 150fps going from summer to winter causing POI shifts from day to day. I had the best standard deviation using Winchester small rifle primers. My choice of rem 7.5 was because they are the hardest most pressure resistant primer I could find. Keep up the good work!

[@mik3ymomo]

Really enjoying this series. Love your commitment to this. I’m looking to buy a 22 Nosler rifle. Probably the CMMG with 24” barrel. I will either end up paying someone like you to make my Match ammo or buy factory ammo that fires constantly out of it.

[@ddb2285]

Things to look at Johnny. Annealeez, tempilaq, and any colors you see in the flame. Love the show.

[@spikesefcovic6737]

Johnny, maybe the bullet seating mark creates a boundary layer drag function that assists the bullet stability as according to David Tubbs. I would like to see you load some groups with, and without the mark on the bullet just see if it makes a difference. Great video as always keep them coming!

[@davidemontini8298]

If you anneal like you did with the drill ...turn lights out and that will help you out big time for the colour change on the brass...you will be able to see the colour change ...of course you will destroy one or two ... but them you will know how long to count ... And yes I know you did it ..to show your audience how it’s done .... Cheers Johnny I really enjoy your videos ....keep up the good work

[@jims9249]

Wow! That brass looks great!

[@ewetho]

My Annealeez you concentrate the tip of the flame at the neck shoulder junction. Time determined by watching for the start of a glow in the brass that requires the lights to be off to see.

[@Lizardking2021]

I love the Varmageddon bullet selection. Especially in my 6mm Remington. I'm considering trying them out in 55 or 62gns instead of the 55gn Vmax.

[@kzimmerman311]

You should make your own automatic annealer. There are plans online, and can be put together for less that $100. You also should pick up a bottle of temperature indicating liquid for about $20.

[@joelclark2130]

Awesome I'm glad you sell the 22 Nosler problems, hey really ramp up those velocities . And see what it will do. Hey maybe someday you should do a wildcat cartridge.

[@jimayers6103]

You might want to get some tempilac around 475 degree. Also concentrate the tip of the blue cone on the center of the neck or neck shoulder junction. Enough heat will transfer through the shoulder to annealing it. Going past the shoulder on to the body pits you at risk of softening the case head.

[@Sklimkill]

You should try some speer sp bt (not the hotcore) in 6.5 and 308. They are pretty inexpensive with some nice bcs

[@colsoncustoms8994]

The 165 grain .308 ones mushroom nicely at 1,750+ fps from a blackout pistol.

[@ShawnSon40]

if starline made 22 Nasgar brass i would buy a 22 nosler upper immediately

[@CascadingDream]

This video reminds me why I bought a salt bath annealing setup.

[@lorenkrug]

Ladder up loads with the 55 Nosler to find best accuracy node… interested to see how accurate it gets

[@FeiTongWen]

Good stuff, valuable AS USUAL!

[@G5Hohn]

Folks, if you mimic JRB's torch method here, run the torch much hotter and for a shorter period of time. You'll be less likely to overheat the base of the case that you want to keep hard.

[@jassonco]

Good stuff Johnny but, I was hoping for another Shot Show 2019 video?!

[@daviddahl4148]

Have you compared the neck thickness on your resized brass compared to the regular 22 Nosler?

[@danieltustison822]

Try putting brass in pan in row add water to leave neck/shoulder out then sweep back forth till there all were want

[@sharppointy8629]

I can attest to the affectivness of the Varmageddon's on ground squirrel's out to 100 yards in 223.

[@cebing83]

Check out the 22-nxs, it has had some great performance.

[@mihlbachler2]

You need to get a 6 x 45 barrel

[@richardweaver9456]

My first thought was...you cant blow your face off undercharging that 50 grain and shooting the rest at 5.56 velocities but I had to watch anyways. Keep up the great work!

[@Super-Kuper]

Can we see the 52gr Speer in 5.56? I've got a bunch of them kicking around. Would love to see Varget and IMR 8208.

[@bradh74]

Why not use a toaster oven to anneal ? Or full size oven? Thanks for the video's I'm thinking of starting to reload for myself.

[@jonjames4281]

they have a wider nozzle for the torch which distributes heat more evenly, used by plumbers for sweating pipes. I use it like your doing only at an angle of attack like you'd use 1 shot case lube. seems quicker an more uniform to me. just sayn'

[@reloadeverything8695]

Oh also side note guys I found the automatic primer feeder body for half the price of the assembly which appears to come with a small and large primer pick up tube as well as the feeder body I have the primer pick ups from my progressive lock nload do I need to buy the whole kit or should I just buy the primer feeder body if I do go with priming on the classic loader

[@tinncan]

With the gen 6 I rarely have to use the extra hopper tube for anything under 50 rounds... Its easier to clean out without it.

[@andrewstoll4548]

That Starline brass might lengthen a bit when moving the metal. You'll never really know till you try. With shrinking the neck and case mouth the brass has to go somewhere. So I really think it would lengthen.

[@paulharveu526]

So, forgive me for my ignorance, but I've heard that you can anneal to consistant temperature by dipping cartridge neck in lead pot. No idea if that is true, or if you end up with a lead coating on the case necks.

[@Lizardking2021]

Flat base also tends to shoot a little better under 300yds.

[@andrewstoll4548]

I've never found a specific temp to heat brass up to. But I put all my cases in a large pan and put in the oven at 450°F for like 15 minutes or so.

[@tonypimm8940]

Andrew Stoll hopefully you are standing those cases up in water to keep the bases cool. I wouldn’t want to anneal the case heads!

[@livingintheLight.]

Johnny. Unrelated. I am loading 243 with Sierra game changer. my mag length is 2.84. with your cut cartridge technique coal is 2.82. reloading data average suggests 2.65 but that puts the ogive at the back of the neck. Using 4000mr and reloader 16. What would you suggest for an overall length?

[@bigracer3867]

cool, thought 22 nosler was relic-ted to the scrap heap, think it still can be something good.

[@halfdollar86]

As the 6.8 bolt head becomes more popular; Someone is going to commercialize a straight wall 6.8spc. Talk about a heck of a hunting caliber for restricted hunting states. Winchester just came out with the 350 legend based of straight wall. I actually kinda like the idea of the 350 legend. Might make a really good brush gun.

[@jwtharpe4106]

Its already been done mdws.forumchitchat.com/post/new-project-10mm-armag-9746954

[@daviddale3624]

To me the question is: "how does the Nosgar compare to the .224 Valkerie?. I would like to see the brass after both have been shot with heavier projectiles loaded to the same velocity.

[@bigbasscatcher86]

With these velocities what is the improvement over 223? I know there is room to move up but, these look like 223 velocities with these bullets.

[@dotman1334]

JRB how are you annealing? What equipment and temps?

[@tomkimbrel8723]

You have probably seen the 25-45 Sharps, any plans on this new cartridge?

[@thejohnnybob]

I just chuck my brass into the drill and heat it until the coloration runs about 3/8" down the case body. Typically 6-7 seconds as well.

[@danielhodges399]

Do you reload .270? I’m having a hard time finding my load. Shooting Hornady sst 140 grain with varget powder. Federal brass. Any suggestions?

[@mikebowerman5078]

Try a 60 grain Nosler Partion. They are a flat base bullet.

[@reloadeverything8695]

Ok I bought the Hornady classic loader press Johnny just got the kit I been looking at priming options I'm interested in the automatic primer feed for the classic but I see lots of negative reviews and now I'm not sure if I should get the automatic primer feeder or buy a hand primer or prime on my lock n load progressive what are y'all thoughts is the primer feed assembly Hassel worth it to prime on the classic press or should I hand prime or should I prime on the progressive

[@jonjames4281]

I hand prime... for me, it's really the way to tell if the primer pockets get to loose and you can feel the primer is seating deep enough by just swiping your finger over them when removing. i've tried other ways but always go back to hand priming. just makes me feel more confident it's done correctly and offers another opportunity to inspect the cases.

[@reloadeverything8695]

@@jonjames4281 ok I prime on my progressive and have gotten a good feel for tight vs loose primer pockets. I can actually tell when I universal decap my brass if the primer pocket is to loose to load in again. What hand primers do u have and of those which do u prefer and why I started reloading on my progressive press and have never hand primed so I appreciate your responses and I know I have lots of questions lol I have the sickness bad man I can't help it

[@i556xx4]

I don't get it? Aren't these velocities very close to .223?

[@AgileK9TopDog]

It's a shame a company like Nosler could have missed this so badly.

[@glendavis9663]

Have you thought about making 6.8 spc loads ???

[@jonathandavenport1172]

I’m not sure if it’s ok to link to stuff on KZbin anymore, but I’ve used an induction annealer in the past with really good luck. If you google “annie induction annealer“, you can get one for 480-499 bucks. Works quickly and really well in my experience.

[@G5Hohn]

The basic brass will get a lot longer as you form it, actually.

[@Eury9819]

that funnel tho its massive I don't think I could handle it

[@jwhmerica504]

You should do a 6mm Hagar.

[@nathanbeach945]

What software are you using to do your measurements for the groups? I like it :)

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I use OnTarget. It's okay, I guess...there are some phone apps that do the same thing these days. I need to broaden my horizons and look for a better option. OnTarget isn't very user-friendly.

[@armedferret]

....unicorn poaching? I prefer broiled for my unicorn, but i suppose poached could be nice and tender. :D

[@chris3383]

Poaching as in illegal hunting not like poached eggs I could be wrong I haven't watched the video !! LOL

[@5roundsrapid263]

Boiling meat is a big fad now. They vacuum seal it and cook it slow. It’s called “sous vide”, which is French for “vacuum packed”!

[@timsmith5837]

👍, great info.

[@psykoklown874]

You might want to look into salt bath annealing ballisticrecreations.ca/ . You just need the case holder, annealing salt (can be bought in bulk as low temp heat treating salt), the small lee melter and your PID. A metronome is helpful for rhythmic timing. Somewhere around $100 +/-. I have one, but haven't needed to use it just yet.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

That's the way I've decided to go. I was looking earlier today and his standard case holder is out of stock. Just my luck.

[@psykoklown874]

@@JohnnysReloadingBench When I ordered mine he emailed me saying that he had to weld some up. I think i had it a week later.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

He doesn't allow backorders, it seems. I would probably do that if he made it available. There's no way to add the standard case holder to your cart. I will probably just be patient. Maybe I'll try lead bath annealing in the mean time.

[@psykoklown874]

@@JohnnysReloadingBench That sucks. I must have caught him at just the right time then. Maybe he was just finishing up a batch.

[@ewetho]

Re-read Starlines website. As you neck it down it will GROW in length. You might try making it a Nosgar.... And see where you end up.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I thought the same thing but the result is 100 thousandths too short instagram.com/p/BtJXSd4H7Jq/

[@trentanson1]

you sure you didn't mean the semi-point was the one that you made the mistake on. That was the one with the low charge.

[@brandonsjsj]

Salt bath annealing!! It’s cheap and only cost about 100 bucks to start and only like 20 buck for more salt when you need it

[@magnumfarce3752]

+1 on the salt bath annealing. Just got into it and am using my JRB PID controller to control the temp.

[@brandonsjsj]

Magnum Farce it also so much safer then a torch, if you knock over the pot when it’s hot you need to not reload.

[@scottlamp3097]

Your channel is excellent! Sub'd

[@joshc5443]

When will be the next 300 win mag video?

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I shot some Win Mag last weekend but I am really not happy with what went down. I am going to fold that footage into the next one. I'll be back on the range next Saturday or Sunday. That means the next video will be Sunday at the earliest, and probably next Wednesday at the latest. Thanks for your patience.

[@joshc5443]

Johnny's Reloading Bench was it still not shooting right or other problems? Thanks for your reply by the way that's why this channel is my favorite you are always interacting with us viewers when we have questions!

[@kylewalton7005]

atleast if you tried putting a 28-29g charge in a 223 case it probably would have filled the case all the way up and you would have noticed the problem before seating the bullet.

[@jbpmidas]

If you’d like some brass annealed, I’d be happy to anneal some for you. I use an Annie induction annealer. Message me to work out details if you’re interested. Otherwise, keep the videos coming!

[@daleswanson1784]

If you're shooting at 17 deg or so, you're a tough nut.

[@G5Hohn]

IGAGING! They are pro grade and affordable.

[@paulharveu526]

I was routing for the 60 gr Speer Spire Point. Its about a $0.12 cent bullet.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

It showed some promise! A little load workup and I think it will be a shooter!

[@mischiefmachinellc]

Mitutoyo calipers are the best.... if someone hands me their garbage digital calipers I have to fight the urge to throw them across the room.

[@Liemciemdk89]

faster turn it up

[@hydrostaticshocker3048]

Ohh no... que the annealing experts... 🙄🙄

[@ssswdon]

I think propane will barely make brass glow as it would have to be 1400 F.

[@DatMammut76]

Don Hill on an Annealeez you can make the brass glow with ease if you don’t have your time set properly. Dark red glow starts at 950-ish degrees. Propane torch reaches peak temp of 1990c degrees. Easily enough to thoroughly destroy brass left for too long in those conditions.

[@maskito4256]

Thank god Johnny talk with his hands otherwise it would’ve been a really boring video.

[@thompsonjerry3412]

You are wrong, the Starline blanks will grow considerably when sized!

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I've tried and the result is more than 100 thousandths too short. instagram.com/p/BtJXSd4H7Jq/

[@EtherFox]

Facts vs feelings all over the place here.

[@thompsonjerry3412]

Ok, you are correct.

[@jasongilbertson6733]

😒

[@davidpeterson6147]

these velocities were extremely low. This is why the brass as in great shape. Load to factory velocities and see what the results are for the brass.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I've fired 60 shots with this new brass. The case capacity is less than 22 Nosler brass. How about you give me some time to start low and work my way up? I talked about this in the video. Higher velocities will come in future videos, when I've worked up slowly and feel comfortable pushing it. Would you people rather I did all of my work-up off camera and only showed the hottest loads in my videos? I don't understand you guys sometimes.

[@ktmracer3587]

Video everything it will teach people the right way. Not every one that turns your videos on is an expert. You going slow helps. Even though some people are impatient and judgemental.

[@davidpeterson6147]

@@JohnnysReloadingBench 3100 is normal 5.56 NATO spec velocity for 55 grain. 22 Nosler was developed for speeds faster than 5.56 Nato. The best powder is CFE223, you are not going to get any speed our of Varget as the Hodgdon reloading data clearly shows. I am not looking for hot loads, just loads for velocity the cartage was developed to produce. You might as well just load standard 5.56 loads and get the same velocity but then why would we need 22 Nosler?

[@THutch556]

Johnny's Reloading Bench No issues with you starting low and working your way up. I appreciate all the data you put out, it helps many people. Keep doing what you do. Thumbs up.