Fixing EVERY Saiyan Form - Dragon Ball Discussion

Saiyans have a lot of forms, but each has their own unique flaws, or has become obsolete. How can we fix that, and which form is the worst? Today, we'll be going over hypothetical ways to fix every Saiyan transformation!
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#DBZ #DBS #DragonBallSuper

[@SaladSaiyan]

Thanks to Josh for editing another video for me 🗿 twitter.com/maxwell_huhok?s=21

[@nickelroll2733]

What if goku escaped to vampa part 12

[@nickelroll2733]

Please

[@nickelroll2733]

Great vid already

[@adumbweeb]

At least he didn't make you blink while this

[@ADXFat]

Grade 3 worst 🗿

[@roguestoney7146]

Who else likes god more then blue

[@chriscunningham5227]

Me

[@ultimatecontagion]

Super Saiyan God is treated like shit. It needs more love. How Blue is portrayed in Super is really shit.

[@chriscunningham5227]

@@ultimatecontagion facts. I mean come on dbs you make goku and vegeta get god transformations and then have them fail with them in literly every saga with a villian and they are randomly able to handle goku and vegeta as gods.

[@khumokwezimashapa2245]

Duck Ssjb

[@trashcan3266]

Looks better

[@bittybears5287]

Joke Theory: What if Goku's Ki is literally leaking out of him because of the hole where his tail used to be?

[@doodlebro.]

bro that actually makes sense in a way since GT Goku had a tail and could use SS3 for longer... *_SS4 IN SUPER WHEN_*

[@JayFadeAwayy]

like ssj3 is the product of the body trying to turn ssj4 but gets stunned because no tail I like the idea

[@IAmBored654]

Hmmm makes sense

[@kiwounemcdonald4500]

It's not a joke the creator himself said that there tails give them better control of their forms and give them the power to go ape

[@hereticss]

@@doodlebro. ssj4 isn’t canon

[@lev6236]

I can’t believe no one has mentioned this. To improve these forms, they need to have unique traits for each of them. For example, in the BOG movie, they introduced that the God form has a unique healing property. So to make each form useful, make each of them have a unique property

[@Ferdam]

I'd love to see their goal as them being able to switch between transformations faster and more efficiently at will, with the objective of taking advantage of each unique property (as you suggested) for each specific situation of a fight. Much better than just constantly adding a new transformation that is essentially just same as previous, but faster/stronger and with some visual change

[@bonrick_0494]

wait am i dense? when???

[@kelmirosue3251]

​@@bonrick_0494 Little dense, but Super Saiyan God has a healing property. During the battle of gods you can see it healing Goku back up. And in the manga he uses it to heal Roshi. However it seems to be very limited and can't use it in the middle of the fight. Probably requires concentration that only not being in battle can provide. And in the Granola arc he uses the healing properties of it to heal himself in base. But all of these situations he's not actively fighting and uses it to either return to the fight or to return someone else to a fight

[@FumanyuX]

I thought the video was gonna talk about that but I got seriously dissapointed

[@itisnotsosimple]

Exactly this! I've wanted that for so long. God being an energy conserving form that allows for passive healing and godly techniques. And Blue being an all out power form allowing goku and Vegeta to fight at max with godly ki. Personally, I wish that UI and UE didn't give strength boasts. They were just blue strength plus instant dodging or blue strength plus damage giving added boasts.

[@rednoseplaya1013]

Personally, SS4 is my favorite. Love the unique design and attitude change that accompanies it. It was pretty fun watching Goku turn from a fun, carefree character to a more serious, egotistical character.

[@MUIDYLANICE]

Too bad it’s not canon, I would’ve loved to see frieza’s reaction to watching them turn into actual monkeys

[@filipjanak8313]

@@MUIDYLANICE Goku: *Turns Super Saiyan 4* Frieza yelling from the backround: "HA, called it.

[@UnstoppableDWade]

He does that with ssj3 as well

[@Dandy12]

I also rly like how it goes back to the great ape form which has since been abandoned :/

[@immagoku2330]

100th like

[@OhFrittata]

This man’s avatar is literally just a purple Perfect Cell with the Incredibles insignia on his chest

[@MALAKAI1107]

😂😂😂😂

[@bradyparker4546]

yea wtf😂

[@The_Irish_Man]

you are just realizing this now

[@TheNoobWasHere]

@@The_Irish_Man how didn't he realize this later

[@thanosisepic7146]

you dont say?

[@liliflower1376]

Sure Ozaru is outdated but I'll always be a bit upset that it was just *completely* abandoned, because at the base of things Saiyans are space monkey men and its an important part of their heritage.

[@smithjohnson92]

@GHZ J2691 the kais/angels were the first and created life in their image. Idc if this isn’t canon it’s the only thing that makes sense so by default it is now canon.

[@burnttoast.2017]

Broly is your solution.

[@SX1995able]

I remember in 2015 when Super was announced, there was a promo with Goku and Vegeta having tails. Went no where I guess

[@burnttoast.2017]

@@SX1995able show me this promo. Might have been fanmade, when people thought super was after gt

[@Brenninator]

That’s why 4 is my favorite form it really ties into the heritage of saiyans.

[@parthbansal2775]

I liked SSG a lot. He returned to base form and using flames to represent ki was cherry on top

[@sethb3090]

Yeah, SSG was pretty great. SSB is awful, especially because they went ahead and ditched SSG almost immediately. But SSB is just SSJ but more power. Literally the same thing. SSG had changes to appearances and fighting style, and for the first time in a long time it showed Goku as a pure martial artist rather than an energy blast and big punch machine.

[@adamsee6782]

@@sethb3090 SSG had the potential to have all these cool techniques and abilities limited to the form itself, which could make it more like a trick and strategy type form mixed with their fighting styles to win against stronger opponents like when Goku used his god bind move on Broly in the movie. SSB is literally just the brawler type form SSJ but with SSG type power. It makes sense why it was created but it just isn’t satisfactory for us fans, or me at least.

[@Pie_22slash7]

Yes it's like jirens aura

[@KSZ2163]

Ssjb should have been a dramatic transformation in the goku black arc when zamasu tells goku about how he killed his family and not just a showcase in resurrection F

[@bensoncheung2801]

222nd 👍

[@Epotheros]

For SSJ3, I think there is a semi official fix for it. In GT and Heroes, it was implied that having a tail makes the form a lot more stable.

[@enderknight1442]

Really? Huh. And here I thought that was just a headcanon I or someone else came up with. Cool to see that it is canon.

[@thecyberrabbit1440]

@@enderknight1442well, it is not a canon explanation, but it’s better than nothing

[@bruh_bruh_the_bruhest_bruh]

Tails gives saiyans better ki control in general

[@isaiahnoll201]

I've always absoulutly hated how the red haired form was called "super sayian god" and the blue haired form is called either "super sayian god super sayian" or "super sayian blue". It's super dumb because the red haired form is literally just their base form with god ki and the blue is super sayian form with god ki. Therefore the red haired form should be called "sayian god" and the blue "super sayian god".

[@c-st4r]

I never made that distinction...Makes much more sense what you said

[@ethereal4657]

I didn't even realise this...

[@BlvckMidas]

This one comment has made more sense than the past 3 transformations I swear

[@israelsanchez1017]

Let’s all start calling these transformations like this now this makes sense

[@jaeda6th]

So there can be a SSJB2 and 3...

[@EthanW56]

Ssj3 is my favorite... it sucks that they basically “nerf “ it because it’s too hard to draw for animators

[@DP-mz8fo]

SSJ3 coolest looking, best ost, awesome transformation, ill never understand how people can not like ssj3

[@AUDITHISWORLD69]

Deff my favorite

[@dizzyneutron1890]

Ssj4 is better

[@lazyliongames5858]

I agree, but I also completely understand why they don't use it for the animators as I would NEVER want to draw that nevertheless have to draw it for hundreds of times Unless I was rohan

[@ortanicallity]

@@lazyliongames5858 IS THAT A JOJO REFERENCE-

[@ekayn1606]

I feel like grade 3 could have been useful during beam clashes. It's like Roshi's buff form.

[@davixn]

Yk i never thought about that. That’s An amazing point

[@sinisternemesis1918]

Huuuuuge point right here

[@cultistaautista]

Or just general grappling, grabbing, pinning somebody down for long enough, etc. Like when Goku had to hold Raditz hostage to allow Piccolo to charge and hit with the special beam cannon

[@requiem6465]

Or use grade 2 to reach the enemy and give grade 3 to attack and then go back down to grade 2. Like the kaioken.

[@cultistaautista]

It wouldn’t woek because Grade 3 requires quite a bit of extra time to get into, the muscle mass can’t increase instantly. While SSG/SSB is Ki-only, so it you can switch instantly

[@demi-femme4821]

I like the idea that 3 is the result of forcing every drop of power out of Super Saiyan, so you can't reduce the stamina drain but you can bring up the power. So the 400×base power we saw from Goku was the result of training in Otherworld, and by Battle of Gods it would be even stronger.

[@tomhossain2099]

You are everywhere

[@doc_s1krr751]

I'd just like to point out that no one has ever gone Super Saiyan with a tail (in canon) and that greatly bothers me.....

[@Jay-gj3jd]

broly did

[@vegitodev]

@@Jay-gj3jd no

[@doc_s1krr751]

@@Jay-gj3jd no he didn't 🙄

[@doc_s1krr751]

@@aoishizuki9493 how do you know 🤷🏽‍♂️ we've never seen it so realistically it could do nothing or it could do EVERYTHING.

[@doc_s1krr751]

@@aoishizuki9493 please carefully reread my comment.

[@bustertwolf7068]

Nobody: GT gogeta: “no go back I want to be monke”

[@gokugaming2801]

Lol

[@Funtime_x]

Yes

[@dr.spycrab4089]

Reject god-ki Return to mon-ki

[@Funtime_x]

@@dr.spycrab4089 yes

[@bluestreaksthehedgehog.]

Lols 😂

[@ladariusholmes1215]

I think the best way to fix most transformations in the DB universe, is transformations having different attributes or abilities. Maybe one makes you faster but hit weaker. Or one gives you crazy ki but tire you out faster. Maybe one gives you some random ability all together. For the most part, every transformation just makes you a better you.

[@1krani]

Here's an idea for Super Saiyan 3: keep the energy drain, but do it all at once. Like, when the body is fully acclimated, the form takes a ton of energy to access, but after that it's stable. It becomes a big gamble if used too late in a fight.

[@TheUnseenPath]

If it's done all at once doesn't that mean he reverts back to base form?

[@1krani]

@@TheUnseenPath Like he did against Kid Buu? Yeah, except it would happen right away. So, you either need to start off with Super Saiyan 3 from the get-go, and therefore go in with a gas tank that's partially empty, or you risk burning all that energy to access the form and reverting right back to base when you get it, if you get it at all.

[@InfiniteEscuro]

As in, SSJ3's energy drain is purely in the activation. But once you've actually gotten into the form, it needs practically nothing, like Grade 4, to sustain itself? That's a much more interesting way of looking at it. Rather than, "I'm low on Ki, I've got one or two shots in SSJ3 if I change now," it's "Shit, I've burned too much energy, I can't even get to SSJ3 anymore." That's a very neat way of looking at it

[@kibawhitefang7176]

I got a better idea: 🐉 make a wish, make super saiyan 3 negative effects be removed. Lol 😅

[@just-DB]

It’s a better Idea to start immediately at ssj3 if you’re gonna use it cuz at the beginning of the fight you have the most energy

[@Blynk-]

For one of the first times we almost see the full body of ultra cell

[@Merlot4814]

Ultra Cell? I thought it was cell if he was in the Incredibles

[@cereal9879]

Incredi-Cell

[@jakeie3216]

Yeah I just noticed

[@Blynk-]

@@cereal9879 meh similar adjectives tbf

[@LavaCreeperPeople]

@@cereal9879 SUPER CELL

[@brandonmeza7952]

Same... I actually like SSJ3. It’s like a double edge sword, you need more power, activate SSJ3 to get it done quickly. Plus design wise, it really looks cool, real menacing.

[@soap8049]

My Favorite Form.

[@killerbug05]

Too bad it was made absolutely useless after z 😡😭

[@LuckiSir]

True that, might have lost the eyebrows but it still looks pretty cool

[@johnwill4560]

All I think about ssj3 is the eyebrow hair went into head hair

[@jlalejos]

It was my fave too should have been a berserker type transformation just makes u a absolute tank raw strength stamina speed at the cost of ki blasts and reason

[@RightDragon88]

SSJ3 is my favorite. It's the one I got hyped for the most and I still do when I rewatch ssj3 moments.

[@YoungTCash]

Same but being older and wiser now, the fact that it drains so much energy and achieved no wins rubbed me the wrong way, I love ssj4 the most because of how it was discovered…the gold ozaru surprise then the stabilization of the power was the second best in the series behind the first ssj transformation we saw

[@daleford9157]

@@YoungTCash spitting facts, SS4 was incredible. I really hope super rewrites GT into cannon, with SS4 being their top transformation.

[@MechAdv]

The problem with SS3 is that it came out of nowhere and was a completely unearned powerup, which is a cardinal sin as far as I’m concerned when it comes to Dragonball.

[@cultistaautista]

SSj2 being pretty much deprecated is the most saddening thing about the transformations to me. It was a straight-up upgrade from normal Super Saiyan and doesn't have the SSj3 energy draining downside, or any movement speed penalty, etc.

[@POPJack1717]

DBS ruined ssj2. Wayy too many corny transformations with power scaling all over the place.

[@emperortoho]

@@POPJack1717 funny how you say that when ssj2 and ssj3 are used quite a bit in the dbs manga i’d go as far to say that the dbs manga gives nearly every transformation justice, from trunks refining his super saiyan 2 all the way to the level of goku’s super saiyan 3 to goku using ssj3 loads with it actually getting a few wins(i think toyo likes ssj3)

[@SweaterPuppys]

Off topic but Blue Evolved has missed potential as a name, Royal Blue would’ve been so much better for Vegeta

[@frisby7143]

Agreed

[@Realkeepa]

true ssb

[@SweaterPuppys]

@khalid waleed I know it’s a little silly but it’s definitely not the worst name for a transformation like golden frieza or even “super saiyan god super saiyan”

[@Realkeepa]

@khalid waleed true super s blue

[@Realkeepa]

@khalid waleed ore accended

[@transqueen]

Practically, Grade 3 is the worst. Narratively, Blue is the worst.

[@demarkus4566]

Nah ssj3 is, blue at least had a hint, a bad one but still, ssj3 had nothing

[@transqueen]

@@demarkus4566 Accually, blue had no hints to it's exhistance. The anime hinted at it's existence in episode 18, but the Ressurection F movie came out before episode 18.

[@demarkus4566]

@@transqueen true but The anime is the "canon" one, I still don't like blue or ssj3, blue should of been in the goku black arc instead of the friza arc, cause they could of got the idea to combine super sayain god and super sayain from goku black going rose, would of made more sense, why'll ssj3 wasn't needed at all, could of cut it out of the story.

[@transqueen]

@@demarkus4566 While I do understand that, I think that Blue is an exception due to the circumstances. As an example, let's look at the Marvel movies. Thanos had existed in comics for decades, but he was still hinted at in the movies. Because the movies are so different from the comics, we don't know what Thanos is like or what he will do. In Dragon Ball, blue had existed for months in the movie, but it was still hinted at in Super. Because the movie and the arc in Super are exactly the same, we know exactly what it it like and how it will be used. Thanos in comics and Thanos in movies are very different, while Blue in the movie and Blue in the anime are exactly the same.

[@demarkus4566]

@@transqueen true, I understand that, I only say the anime is canon cause it fits a bit better with the manga than the movie, but I see your point tho.

[@twistedvtuber9894]

I still think my favorite transformations in Dragon Ball are Ultra Instinct and Ego. They are so good from a characterization standpoint and it makes Goku and Vegeta more distinct in their movesets

[@nightlypiano4116]

I think it'd be neat if someone like Gohan focused more on SSG than SSGB, maybe learning some fancy god-powers like Healing, maybe Defusing, Ki Manipulation (like what Goku did to Broly to slow him down)

[@joshmongames4624]

Super sayian 4 is the most badass looking form in my book.

[@hazamahonoka7439]

Hell yeah it is.

[@chadvallance7707]

@Altimoix too slim to me. Like goku was cutting bulk/went on a diet. Didn't need to bigger than base or ss but I don't like the slimmer look. I think buu saga ss2 perfected the look besides ss4

[@hassaanxyz]

I want in dbs 2

[@eclipse7963]

I hope they merge it with SSG because I like both a lot and based on what talented artists show, it looks nice

[@donaldpowell6725]

Super Saiyan four with red hair should have been their god form.

[@kevh1145]

I’ve always thought SS2 was the coolest looking. Just thicker slightly longer hair but looks the coolest to me lmao

[@Yarblocosifilitico]

and electricity all around

[@SomeoneThatIsHappy]

@@Yarblocosifilitico plasma*

[@SomeoneThatIsHappy]

In teen Gohan and Majin Vegeta right?

[@Yarblocosifilitico]

@@SomeoneThatIsHappy is it supposed to be plasma? Plasma is fire or the aurora borealis. It really seems like electricity to me.

[@silvey640]

I think SS was the coolest, just the OG super saiyan you know

[@syzyphyz]

It would be interesting to see an Oozaru form return but obviously buffed, like a super oozaru where they have insane power but the drawback is they lose control.

[@Spatgoober]

Broly's Okari form is that its the power of the ooaru while still keeping a normal body form

[@CaptainProx]

I dont think adding forms are bad, i think that when you add too many forms too fast then a lot of them instantly become obsolete. I mean SSJ2 was introduced at the end of the Cell Saga and then at the beginning/middle of the Buu Saga SSJ3 was already released. Like they gave it ZERO time to shine as the new powerful form that everyone wants to achieve

[@ProjektTaku]

yeah. God should've stayed at goku and vegeta's peak forms till maybe the end of the goku black arc where they achieve blue, and then goku could achieve UI omen but still have blue as his max form till the moro arc where he can go UI omen willingly but it takes alot out of him, then then the granolah arc can give us true UI.

[@Gensolink]

honestly you can kinda say the same about super saiyan it's not as bad but it had a very weird run post frieza where it gets immediately outshined by man made cyborgs. However I agree that they didnt explore the form enough, the gang got to try and perfect the first stage but you dont see it at all for SS2

[@CaptainProx]

@@Gensolink nah they gave SSJ pretty much the entire Android/Cell Saga time to shine, not to mention Vegeta always hinted at the legend of a super saiyan But SSJ2 probably had like a combined 5 episodes of being the most powerful new form

[@CaptainProx]

@@ProjektTaku SSJ2 and SSJ God they were way to quick to move on from. I think another thing that plays into it is that the SSJ3 and SSJB forms were achieved by off screen training and it didn’t really earn itself as the do or die needed in the moment power boost like SSJ, SSJ2, MUI, etc did

[@ProjektTaku]

@@CaptainProx yeah, and they didn't do much either. Ssj3 never got a W and neither did blue, not even in there debut. Removing super saiyan 3 just makes the buu saga a much cleaner story and removing blue just increases the the use of god and makes freeza's power up slightly less ridiculous. The reason why people love super saiyan 4, so much is that it was the final power up for all of gt.

[@mjo8321]

Ah yes, Red + Yellow = Blue...

[@largemarge2098]

mabye they saving purple

[@F-18Super]

@@largemarge2098 purple is UI omen

[@DM-xi3hw]

@@F-18Super purple should had been ssjb mastered since they alternate between ssjb and ssjg

[@F-18Super]

@@DM-xi3hw nah a darker SSGSS was a much better idea

[@dominatoryoutube4112]

Nah think about it more like a blue star is hotter and brighter than red star (God

[@gabbyjim8943]

I remember going to the public library back in the day to google images and printing copies of all the DBZ characters paying 10 cents each copy then I would take them home and try to draw them!

[@urenaanthony91]

Oh how times have changed :'(

[@user-sl6ou3qb9l]

@@urenaanthony91 This is a good change Readily available resources in the palm of our hands

[@applehazeva2739]

Ayoo!

[@user-sl6ou3qb9l]

@@applehazeva2739 😳

[@Qdude10]

Those were simpler times...

[@CommentPositionInformer]

Very nice video. I love videos like this, where the purpose is giving more depth to overlooked/oversimplified mechanics. Here is how I would reword several aspects of Dragon Ball, in order to make every transformation mentioned in this video useful to some extent, and cut a bit on the power creep: *Oozaru rework* In order to supplement future transformations, my version of Oozaru is a bit different. It's an innate part of Saiyan Biology, and it's not something that can be turned off, avoided or disabled, whether by removing a tail or destroying the moon. As long as the Saiyan lives, they *will* periodically turn into an Oozaru and rampage until they calm down. (A piece of lore that can be added to this: Back in Vegeta there used to be huge arenas where Saiyans can duke it out in Oozaru form. That way, they could spend their Oozaru cycle fighting in empty spaces, instead of destroying property) *Humanoid Oozaru/Oozaru Containment* This is the form displayed by New Broly, where he can access his Oozaru strength in humanoid form. I will be changing how it works. Rather than a transformation that can be charged in combat situations, this isn't so much a form, but rather a technique. Essentially, this technique allows the User to no longer transform into a mindless Oozaru, by *merging* the Oozaru self and the conscious self, and it's active 24/7. This allows the user to apply the strength of their Oozaru transformation to their base form, and avoid rampaging as a mindless ape. However, this also subjects the user to the aggression and animalistic side of their Oozaru self, drastically changing their personality. This can be remedied, by it's not an easy process, and requires a long period of therapy and meditation. However, after said process is complete, a vast majority of the aggression can be contained, and thus this essentially becomes a huge boost to the user's base form. *Super Saiyan 1* This form is severely under-used currently, so I will be giving it a buff. This form, when compared to the others, will be EXTREMELY efficient in terms of Ki and Stamina consumption. In other words, this form compensates the lower multiplier by lasting much longer, and helping the user last longer in a battle of attrition. For example, against someone like Kid Buu, who needs to be damaged over and over and over again before starting to slow down, this form would perform the best. *Super Saiyan 3* (Yes, I skipped 2, you will see why) Super Saiyan 3 is the *opposite* of Super Saiyan 1, as it's extremely dispendious, straining and inefficient, but much, *much* stronger. What holds this form back the most is it's cost, and the fact that using Ki techniques becomes harder due to the leakage of Ki. So, I will be turning this weakness into a trade-off. Rather than leaking harmlessly, instead this form leaks Ki *violently.* Just transforming into it causes the ground to crack, tornados to form and everything in the general vicinity to burn from the violent release of Ki. Using moves such as Ki beams or Instant Transmission is basically impossible in this form, but the user gets a huge boost in speed, and the aura of destructive energy causes their physical moves such as punches and kicks to become devastatingly damaging and have a burning feeling to them. Essentially, this form is short, but made to finish fights quickly, and it's extreme power boost would be perfect if the user wants to take on someone who are stronger than themselves. For example, Jiren. *Super Saiyan 2* Now that I talked about the two extremes, it becomes much easier to talk about the middle ground. Super Saiyan 2 is the perfectly middle-ground between the other two forms. For when you need strength, but don't want to commit to SS3, for when you want to last, but SS1 is not strong enough. This form would be good for sparing, due to it's good mix of pushing your strength over a larger period of time, or taking on well-rounded enemies like Frieza. *Super Saiyan 4* And finally, the last non-God Ki form. Super Saiyan 4 is explicitly intended to be more focused on the Oozaru side, and it's requirements are having the Golden Oozaru, which is essentially a fusion of the Super Saiyan and Oozaru forms. So, let's double down on it. The new Super Saiyan 4 only requires mastering the Oozaru Containment and unlocking Super Saiyan 3, so we skip Golden Oozaru. This form works by basically *inverting* the user's natural state. A master of Oozaru Containment will be mostly themselves, while retaining a little bit of their Oozaru side. This allows them to user their Oozaru side to power up their normal self. SS4 inverts that, and the user becomes mostly Oozaru, while retaining a little bit of themselves. Essentially using their SS3 selves to power up their Oozaru self, thus achieving an even higher level of power than regular SS3. Due to the higher resilience of the Oozaru body and mind, SS4 is also not as taxing as regular SS3. The major drawback, however, is that this form is mostly anger and aggression. The user's techniques and logical thinking suffer, and it's incredibly dangerous to use when there are allies or civilians nearby, as the SS4 selves are very unlikely to care about damage control, differentiate foe from ally or hold back to not kill the enemy. Thus, this ultimate form is better reserved as a trump card in desperate situations. *God Ki Rework* Now, for the elephant in the room. How the hell we enable God Ki transformations without them making the current ones obsolete? By making each one specialized, of course! Dragon Ball makes a point to separate Mortal Ki from God Ki, so let's separate their utilities as well! God Ki is now more effective against beings of Godly nature, but *less* effective against mortals. Similarly, regular Ki is effective against mortals, but *less* effective against Gods. So, while you could use Super Saiyan Blue to fight a mortal, the reduce effectiveness means you'd probably be better off using Super Saiyan 2 or 3. And vice versa. Now, each branch of forms is only good against a certain type of enemy, thus there isn't a one-size-fits-all form anymore. Also, when you're using a God Ki transformation, this means your Ki is now God Ki, thus you're more vulnerable to opposing God Ki. Same goes for Mortal Ki and mortals. Thus, the only way to use the effective Ki against an opponent is by making yourself vulnerable to them as well, thus ensuring the playing field is always leveled. *Super Saiyan God* Now, SSG is no longer a downgrade from Blue, now both are Ying and Yang, two halves of the quintessential "God Ki Super Saiyan" concept. Due to it's canon healing properties, SSG is now the *defensive half* of God Ki. It's Ki is geared toward shielding and healing. It's not as fast or damaging as Blue, but using Ki to make your body more durable is far more effective, and you can drain Ki and Stamina to have a constant regeneration factor or heal other people. *Super Saiyan Blue* SSB is now the exact opposite. It concedes more speed and strength to the user, at the cost of being more draining and not good at all on defense. It's essentially the less extreme, God-Ki version of SS3. Since SSG has an unique property, Blue will too. Blue now has a *draining* property. Whenever a punch lands, SSB drains a bit of the opponent's vitality, reducing their Ki AND Stamina reserves simultaneously. This vitality is then consumed to give the user a temporary power boost. This makes SSB geared toward all-out offense, and makes it much harder for an enemy to stall/outlast it without regeneration or infinite Ki and Stamina. The boost's effects don't stack, but the duration does. So punching the enemy multiple times won't make the user stronger, but will make the boost last longer. *Bonus: Super Saiyan Rosé* Since Zamasu's whole thing is that he kill both mortals *and* Gods who dare stand in his way, as well as the fact that he is a God in a Mortal's body, then Super Saiyan Rosé is now the best of both worlds. It is a special blend of Ki, who is effective against both Gods and Mortals equally, while similarly being vulnerable to both. Since it was supposed to be the counterpart to SSB, then I will give it offensive properties as well. Instead of the energy drain, instead it has a "corrosion" effect. It's effectively a Ki Poison, which eats the opponent from inside-out. The effects increases the more Ki the opponent uses, but only lasts a short while. Goku Black/Zamasu need to continue landing hits to keep the effect active. *Ultra Instinct/Ultra Ego* Personally, I would prefer the best if these two aren't so much forms, but rather techniques. Ultra Instinct is a state of mind that allows the user to not be held back by emotions and dodge automatically. Of course, this technique is extremely hard to use, which is why Goku can so far only use it in base. But eventually, once he masters it enough, it should be able to be used in tandem with his forms to increase their defensive effectiveness even further. Ultra Ego is similar, but opposite. Instead of a form, it's the ability to convert your Ki into Destruction Energy, which has the properties of Hakai. Once Vegeta masters it, he should be able to use it in tandem with his forms, enhancing their destructive power even further.

[@TheFlamingSlayer]

This is actually amazing and would be so cool if this were the implementation into canon

[@CommentPositionInformer]

@@TheFlamingSlayer Ty!

[@InvntdXNEWROMAN]

Deep down, it still hurts that SSJ4 didn't get used as the pathway to achieving God Ki. Could have made for a more interesting plot device when fleshing out the lore surrounding the power of the SSJ4 transformation. Instead, we got that god ritual thingy that became irrelevant soon after is was introduced. Using the Zenkai boost as a Great Ape skill, which is how the SSJ4 form taps into unlimited plot armor.

[@PotatoKingMike]

"Giant buff Cailifla wasn't something I really wanted to see" That's COWARD talk

[@Sushidog2005]

Bigger boobas

[@PLASBEZ]

@@Sushidog2005 bigga thighs

[@natsutsunarei8824]

That’s CUCK talk.

[@TonyBMan]

Real heroes date Android 21.

[@stuffnthings8135]

Bigger everything

[@beesong2450]

S3 the sheer amount of effort to pull that off is insane. Even goku doesn't want to transform to that again

[@theysaidimasian9766]

Vegeta straight up doesnt want to use it too lmao

[@TRYhollow0]

But the sad part is its trash

[@TRYhollow0]

@Ellin Amran you have to use a lot of power to use it while useing a lot of power to stay in the form its overall pretty bad for long fights. Which most fights in dbs are long. Unless you have around 1000 beans then it wont even last him as long as the fight with kid buu on the kai's world. (Which is shown in the anime)

[@theysaidimasian9766]

@@TRYhollow0 its just ki control, much like ssj3, ssjb is the same thing when it was shown, goku described how much ki he has to consume to keep the form going. Ssj1 and ssjg are probably the only forms that have little to no drawbacks

[@Sushidog2005]

Its cause it taps in all the potential of the user so it would make sense

[@Kagiso22]

Just had a thought. The God Swopping technique is exactly the same fix one would use to fix SSJ3. If you power up in SSJ2 you can “fill the balloon”, then swop into SSJ3 when you are ready to attack up close with greater speed and power. They should’ve written it into the manga even. Imagine if Vegeta did the God Swopping technique for the first time and when asked by Goku how he thought of doing that he says that before deciding to pursue SSG he had been training to figure out how to make SSJ3 effective. Because he had found the power drain wasn’t worth him going into the form, thus he attempted to swop between SSJ2 and SSJ3, only going into SSJ3 before making contact with his enemy, which would require powering SSJ2 up to just before those point of ascension into 3. Then Battle of Gods happened and he abandoned his training with SSJ3 and focused on attaining SSG. But after attaining SSB and training on how to push its usefulness to a brief height he remembered his experiments with SSJ3 and thus God Swopping was invented

[@asianlover1230]

6:35 i 100% agree with salad I feel like ssj3 could have been used more if Goku mastered it it wouldn’t be so bad

[@darkligth2549]

I really like ssj4, it feels to me like it's the closest to what either the original legendary super Saiyan might have looked like, or what I would have imagined a super Saiyan god, cause to me just changing hair color doesn't fit well with the whole monkey thing, and ssj4 takes that and makes it into a part of the transformation unlike basically every other form

[@Ligmaments]

I agree. Although technically non-canon, ssj4 is by far the best and most logical transformation. Visually, I would only change the color of the fur from red to golden brown. I absolutely hate most of the new transformations in super.

[@Realkeepa]

Who?

[@angryboi595]

Agreed. Super saiyan 4 mixing great ape into a human body with a super saiyan is so smart. It looks so damn cool and it’s not just a recolour. It’s actually a original form. It looks so good.

[@ProjektTaku]

nah, ssjg is better and the design looks cooler.

[@ProjektTaku]

@@Ligmaments I'd also probably add fur over the abs, and maybe chest, since it looks weird without it.

[@SCF721]

SSJ2 has always been a weird transformation to me. In the Cell Saga it was phenomenal but after that it felt almost like an afterthought and just a transition to SSJ3. Like after Cell, the form just never gets to truly shine or have a big standout moment. Also heard that Toriyama forgot about it and thought that SSJ3 was SSJ2 (don't know how true this is but I wouldnt be surprised) SSJ Blue for me is my least favorite. Literally comes out of nowhere with no build up and essentially tosses the much more interesting SSJ God to the side almost immediately after its introduced. Also didnt help that it was overused to shit and watching it get beaten time and time again made it lose its luster.

[@tkbryan95]

I don't like SSJ3 for the same reason you don't like Blue. It came out of nowhere and tossed aside a form that actually had a narrative building up to it. Combined with being added in my least favorite arc, I wasn't a fan. It's at least original by comparison to blue I guess.

[@SCF721]

@@tkbryan95 Yeeeeah I can't argue with you there. SSJ3, while visually cool, is pretty lackluster especially with how it barely got used. At least SSJ2 had SOME type of shine before it got overshadowed. SSJ God had one movie where it was introduced, and lost the final fight mind you, before SSJ Blue comes out of nowhere and then we don't see SSJ God again for so long.

[@TheKolopololo]

My headcanon (don't know if its confirmed officially) is that ssj2 is a form where the user managed to acquire the power of ssj grade 3 without the drop in speed. So it is the pinnacle of evolved super sayian form, maximum power with maximum speed.

[@beywheelzhater8930]

Honestly God is one of my favorite forms, right under UI Omen, something about it is so vibrant and really fits with Goku's personality

[@SCF721]

@@beywheelzhater8930 God is honestly a pretty interesting form that I feel couldve been delved into way more just like the original SSJ form, but sadly got tossed aside by the next movie.

[@weskalsek9394]

Ssj2 always has been my favorite probably just nostalgia but actually seeing an advancement in form by simple changes had me hooked.

[@elyjah1770]

People say ssg is the worst but it’s truly the best because that’s when god ki came into the story and with god ki we got ssg, ssb, uio, Mui, pui, tui, ue, ssjbe, and that’s because ssg was the key to all these forms

[@that_guy55]

Ssg and ssj2 will always look the coolest the lightning in ssj2 looks badass and I love how ssg is skinny and not bulky

[@Arecls]

facts

[@k4rd392]

Same here and including the ssj4 it looks way dope

[@able5119]

I don’t like ssj2 as much since they were lazy with the design, the spikier hair should’ve been like that with ssj1 imo. And yea I also like ssj god, although I think it should be renamed to saiyan god

[@amon__7187]

Nah, it should just be ssj and ss god. Broly should have kept tail and get ssj4 design with power lvl of ssj2 or 3. Maybe another evolution in the line to compete with ss god

[@LITTLE1994]

I agree.

[@Silk_Underwear]

Wasnt ssj3 easier to maintain while he was training in the afterlife? Something about the limitations of a physical body, maybe I remember incorrectly.

[@robertm6590]

No that's exactly what he said. Being dead he had no limitation to that form. The reason he couldn't use it for long while "dead" and on earth was that it sped up the time he had left because it was draining the borrowed body he was using for a day.

[@Stardustrider-yt]

I have an idea to fix sjj3 tho if they apply the training they used to get ssjgssj or ssjblue by closing off the leaks where there energy comes out and by focusing on keeping the ki in use that in ssj3 and its possible to make it stronger.

[@Paur]

Tbf, Piccolo noted how tired Goku looked after using SSJ3 against Fat Buu.

[@Champsr0ck2247]

He didn't notice the significant energy leak while he was dead. He knew it took alot of power to use though

[@michaelwhite7378]

Isn’t the whole downside of SS3 due to him never using it with a mortal body prior so his body had never adapted to it (similar to how Golden Freiza was beaten the first time)

[@Unorthodox_K1NG]

SSG needs more screen time. The way Goku and Vegeta use it in the Broly movie was amazing. Also bring the form switch from red to blue to red in the anime

[@jhw8184]

super-saiyan 2 has to be my favorite looks wise, it’s just so badass and clean, slickest form besides ultra-instinct

[@senior.toucan6370]

Ultra instinct isn't a form

[@nonghole4870]

@@senior.toucan6370 yeah, UI is a technique and a transformation. When goku has the white hair, that’s the transformation, but when his hair is still black that’s the technique. (I think)

[@jaxxonsmith1283]

@@nonghole4870 Silver but yea

[@gokufromfortnite867]

@@senior.toucan6370 Ultra instinct is a form but it isn’t a saiyan form

[@ProjektTaku]

@@nonghole4870 omen is still a form (I think) but now we know that he can use UI as purely a technique.

[@enderlovesbagels101]

Imagine seeing two Ozaru’s stomping shit in the ToP

[@pn2294]

3

[@demonkingbadger6689]

Well, vegeta likely still knew how to do that moon energy thing from when he had a tail. So, if some random tailed Saiyan coukd have been in u7 team, that would be interesting. Assuming, Vegeta would bother to agree to it. We know how he can be.

[@AEAE-]

There's no moon on the arena

[@enderlovesbagels101]

@@AEAE- Vegeta could make one

[@JadedThrone957]

UI OZARU

[@animosityworks]

6:38 THANK YOU. FINALLY SOMEONE WHO SHARES MY OPINION ON SSJ3

[@SuperSpartan14]

Super Saiyan 3 is my personal favorite I wish there was more moments with it. What if they bring it back but it's a mastered version were it doesn't drain energy so rapidly or at all. it also would be cool if they would bring it back with God ki.

[@Jo-Wilbe-Dina]

The real reason why Super Saiyan 2 and 3 aren’t often used is because the Saiyans are holding back, and if they aren’t, they literally just skip to Super Saiyan Blue.

[@ProjektTaku]

here's how I would want it to be: Ssj should just be for the start of the fight, ssj2 to warm up, god for serious time, and blue as a last resort.

[@MrFusion]

I don't understand why they don't just use 2. It's a complete upgrade over 1, there is literally no reason to not use it.

[@Jo-Wilbe-Dina]

@@MrFusion yeah, i know, and that's why it's one of my most favourite transformations below super saiyan 3 thanks to gohan as well, since it literally just a remastered version of super saiyan, and to see that it's not being used as often for literally no reason, really makes me grumpy.

[@falconeshield]

Should've been Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God like the poster before said.

[@dbgoat4436]

@@MrFusion they have more control in ssj1 u need rage to acces most saiyan transformation or l atleast to trigger them until u get the god forms that’s when u have calm down and hold your ki inside your own body

[@dungton6066]

I’m more of a ssj3-4 guy than the god angels form

[@GermanKinsmen]

So you're a furry

[@carmelocapili642]

@@GermanKinsmen 😂

[@zye4809]

As long as you're not some GTtard who says SSJ4 is above God or Blue then I could care less.

[@willi898]

@@zye4809 So true People thinking SSJ4 is stronger than SSB lmao💀😭

[@zye4809]

@@willi898 Yeah those type or people take Gokus statement that he had infinite Power literally lmao like since King Piccolo said he was invincible dose that actually mean he was invincible?

[@Mashiro_TV]

God is probably my favourite, love the look of him when he takes that form, looks super badass

[@theaprilsonlyfool]

4:45 imagine having the driest god damn taste imaginable LMAO

[@chriswentz5197]

The best is SS4,or if you grew up with Japanese or anything that speaks up "Saiyajin" SSJ4 Its because its Monke power,no Godly bs,the Primal monki is superior

[@espurrseyes42]

Also it works the best narratively.

[@powerjolt7215]

Yes

[@chronic5577]

But..... You forgot Fusion 4?

[@user-om3iw4it6p]

Another thing to note is that it may not be as strong as Super Saiyan Blue, but in terms of pros and cons, it literally has NO CONS whatsoever meaning it's a helluva lot easier to use then Blue.

[@chronic5577]

@@user-om3iw4it6p but...... Does Gogeta's SSJ4 have more perks than your usual SSJ4?

[@sumerapaleema610]

I really liked what DB Multiverse did with Grade 3, where Trunks used it in short bursts as a compensation for not reaching SSJ2.

[@IvanSal778]

It wasn't that he didn't even reach ssj2 homie didn't even master ssj. Ssj grade 4 has the power of grade 3 but not limiting the speed and doesn't consume a crap ton of power

[@TerribleGamingUploads]

SSJ2 is my favorite transformation, i completely agree with you on this, I’d love to see more of it

[@SentientBratwurst]

I think there IS an actual use for SSJ Grade 3, and that’s as a temporary power boost over grade 4. I think it’s a shame we never see any saiyans use it in a way similar to how Goku often uses kaio-ken, to boost an attack (especially ki attacks) or like how he and Vegeta do with Blue. Obviously you can’t just flash into it like Goku can with the kaio-ken (I think?), but I’m sure there’s a circumstance where it would make sense to do.

[@LughSamildanach]

Excellent. SSJ4 is already perfect and thus was not included in "EVERY".

[@burnttoast.2017]

It isn't perfect lmao

[@LughSamildanach]

@@burnttoast.2017 cope

[@burnttoast.2017]

@@LughSamildanach you are coping lmao. None of the ssj forms are perfect and ssj4 is no different.

[@LughSamildanach]

@@burnttoast.2017 seethe

[@Bendanna93]

@@LughSamildanach what's gonna be the third one word response

[@blackomega2526]

This just reminds me how weak the original saiyans really are. compared to alot of other races. Nail couldve been the king of the saiyans and Gero could've taken over frieza's whole organization with androids.

[@jums8224]

I mean, Gero's androids were super strong because he got the dna and stuff of the saiyans so uhh...

[@blackomega2526]

@@jums8224 cell was the only one that used their dna. I ment like android 13 thru 20 (himself) they were all super saiyan level and above.

[@jums8224]

@@blackomega2526 well gero still used info he got from spying the saiyans

[@blackomega2526]

@@jums8224 true. crazy to think that all of that from.vegeta and goku fight until the androids was only 3 years. and android 17 and 18 apparently had a hacked growth mode or something because they grew as strong as the saiyans with light work at best. infinite energy or not they still did not train or have battles like everyone else.

[@Jaydavid25.]

Nah, Raditz was surprised that somebody was givin him trouble, so it safe to assume that it was unfortunate coincidences that powerful people started coming around...

[@DrMostacho]

General Tablos is controlling my mind... 7 words E S S E N C E

[@nighter7881]

I like ssj3 I really do hope this form shines again…. It was to me so dope he looks so crazy and intimidating

[@coolwaghmare]

I guess Masako X gave a perfect solution to the SSJ3 problem. Simply making its attacks more Ki based rather than physical can be a great way to use it more efficiently. Sure it will drain its power quicker, but atleast he can capitalize on the power boost to dominate the match early on. Once the power is drained enough to the point that form becomes non sustainable, Goku can use his physical prowess to gain back the lost power.

[@robinthrush9672]

The same can be done for the SS1 phase 3 muscle form. If these forms didn't take so long to switch into anyway. Works for Roshi and other big bads, so it was an odd stand out with the speed issues.

[@adamseyad9528]

@@robinthrush9672 I think the point was that grade 3 didn't actually increase your ki efficiency, but instead just muscle density. Ironically one of the worst forms also happens to be one of the best narratively lmao.

[@dariocarraresi1823]

@@robinthrush9672 Fun fact: in the fan-made comic Dragon Ball Multiverse, one of the versions of Future Trunks learns how to switch between Super Saiyan and SS Grade 3 _very_ quickly. He fights using regular SS because it's faster; but switches to Grade 3 the instant before his hits connect, to benefit from the extra strength without losing much speed.

[@martinaguiluz4063]

Nah, that description would make the form even less efficient. A way to keep the SS3 is having it as a finisher. Have Goku fight as a Super Saiyan (phase 1 or 2), do combos with that form and then transform into phase 3 to do a super finisher move (either a Kamehameha or a striking combo).

[@DasMilC]

@@martinaguiluz4063 Something like in the Hirudegarn Movie, SSJ3 being a form only to be used if you can end the battle quickly. Or if you've got a handful of Senzu.

[@ammar4939]

0:19 "so goku....... and vegata as well" Sums up the entirety of the series.

[@lahkooky504westside3]

gohan when he's mad..

[@that__.one.___dude.__]

*vegata*

[@thelaw_00]

I'm a firm believer that any transformation can be perfected to remove any of its downsides. Like how Goku and Gohan perfected Super Saiyan to be flawless to the point that they can stay on that form while sleeping or something.

[@dunsku6739]

My guy is using so much dokkan art I love it

[@demi-femme4821]

I think the Golden Ozaru is a good way to make it useful. Combine Super Saiyan with Ozaru. That's immediately a 500x boost, making it stronger than Super Saiyan 3. Combine it with other forms of Super Saiyan, like 2 making the hair all spiky, 3 having that hair, God Ozaru getting red fur, that kind of stuff.

[@demonicthan742]

I completely agree, but imo make the change from regular to Super Ozaru be more subtle rather than full on Golden Fur so it can also act as a way to get your opponent off their guard thinking it's such a regular Great Ape

[@ionelpetrea7594]

Well that is way too op but U FORGOT THE WEAKNESSES SSJ3 WOULD DRAIN EVEN MORE ENERGY GOKU WOULD BE WAY SLOWER AND DID U FORGET THAT HE CANT CONTROL HIS GREAT APE FORM??!! IMAGINE IF HE STILL HAD THE GREAT APE IN DBS AND HE LOOKED AT A FULL MOON AND TURN INTO A GREAT APE THEN TRANSFORM INTO A SSJB OOZARU HE WOULD DESTROY THE EARTH

[@GodzillaFanMoment9830]

Imagine god ki with it?

[@hunterpavelek9916]

@@ionelpetrea7594 vegeta could control his ozaru at least tho so he could be the one to unlock it

[@Chizinky]

@@ionelpetrea7594 nah he'd destroy the universe

[@herrfantastisch7489]

Edit: People seem to think I'm summing up Blue to its strength? I'm talking about narratively and visually. Visually, God looked so much better. Narratively, Blue came out of nowhere and accomplished nothing. I could care less about how strong it is. Besides, I think it's oversaturated and we see it everywhere. If we stuck with God, it could be justifiable to see more Super Saiyan 1, 2, and 3, and have God be a trump card which requires Goku and Vegeta to be calm and collected. Not to mention they already retconned so many cool things about it, like its healing properties and invisible God ki. But no, what we got was Goku and Vegeta only using Super Saiyan as a warm-up, and Blue every chance they got. There's not even a clear stamina drain like people say. They use Blue so much, I never got the impression the transformation was taxing, like SS3. Blue's honestly the worst. It came out of nowhere, and visually, is just a reskin of Super Saiyan. It doesn't even have a unique aura. They should have stuck with God. The hair didn't spike and the aura looked like a flame. It made Goku look younger and skinnier, and visually and narratively, was different. It was the power of the Gods. Not to mention, it was unique how God was about being calm and controlling your Ki. Blue is just, more screaming and raging while just being Super Saiyan, but blue.

[@bvo_kid1486]

Nahh that aint it

[@yolob6815]

Nah youre wrong

[@shido_rimru_]

Blue is useless gets bet by everyone

[@yolob6815]

@@shido_rimru_ lol you do know that’s not how it works 😂😂

[@cloroxbleach371]

I agree with all expect the unique aura thing its aura when transforming literally breaks of Gokus silhouette and is literally blue fire.

[@gravyking7058]

Love all your content man!!! also what music is this in the background?

[@nomad3087]

Why are the art here so much better than anything you can search for in the internet? The color and also the details. Cant seem to find those in google

[@DWoods0892]

I really do love SSJ3. I wish they would have spent more time on trying to perfect it, but at the same time, I think it’s dropped because of the time it takes to draw

[@arian6565]

Vegeta can't even go super saiyan 3, ur actually so dumb cause u think that and now trynna "argument" that he can HAHAHAHA 😂😂😂😂

[@DWoods0892]

@@arian6565 what?

[@not_robert5036]

@@DWoods0892 tf is he talking about

[@johngear1415]

@@arian6565 what

[@boredianz]

@@arian6565 Your high

[@Lucky-hr2cn]

I hate the form when people get their shirt destroyed and get strong

[@prasanthprasanth5440]

So not SSJ2, SSJ3, SSG, SSR, SSRage and Wrathful?

[@Funtime_x]

Ssj4,ui and mui

[@prasanthprasanth5440]

@@Funtime_x They lose their shirts in SSJ4 and MUI but UI Sign yeah.

[@omarqassas7095]

Man thats the best form u just hatin on the best form

[@Funtime_x]

And super broly ssjg

[@jonathansuber1551]

Super Saiyan 4 is the coolest transformation because it brings it back to the roots of them actually being saiyans instead of like how freezer can just turn gold and piccolo can turn orange. It was an evolution of their original form instead of a plot convenience power-boost with a different color

[@forcecalibration924]

Good analogy with the balloon 💯

[@jfoolywitatooly29]

In my personal opinion I feel like the forms with the biggest flaws are SSJ3, SSB and SSJ Grade 3 due to the rapid ki drain, stamina drain, and degraded speed from both respectively while the forms that are almost perfect for usage would be SSG and SSJ4 because SSG is basically and literally the base state of the Godly forms so there’s no ki drain, slower speed, stamina drain, etc while SSJ4 it’s basically the same as SSG when it comes to no downsides while using them if they wanted to they could literally be in SSG and SSJ4 all the time if they wanted to

[@dmitribrutus5543]

At least Super Saiyan 4 and Super Saiyan God does show some history and the lore.

[@jfoolywitatooly29]

@@dmitribrutus5543 That’s what I’m saying Oozaru and SSJ does too as it’s the whole reason behind every other form because every form is an offshoot of SSJ same way that Golden Oozaru and SSJ4 is an offshoot of the Oozaru beach of transformations and SSB too kinda as well as it’s the next step into the Godly realm

[@blueicyvoice3988]

I kinda wish Goku mastered ssj3

[@dmitribrutus5543]

@@jfoolywitatooly29 Oozaru and SSJ line is definitely made Saiyans more unique. Although I do wished they could’ve expanded the Super Saiyan God form more than introducing the Blue form. Seeing how anime and the movie, Super Saiyan God has many different abilities that was never explained.

[@johnhouston1590]

Ssj3 and Blue don't decrease your speed they just have high stamina drain, which isn't an issue for Blue after the U6 arc. Ki is directly related to stamina. It's not that SSJ4 or God don't have Ki drain or don't take a toll on the body, it's just they are more refined forms. If that were the case he would be able to maintain the respective forms until knocked unconscious, which we know isn't the case. Ssj grade 3 is the only form that decreases speed.

[@walkerred8220]

They really should have focused on quality over quantity. Now, there's just too much with too little substance

[@pangeaforever]

Yeah, there is too much focus on transformations. If they made each form have nuance and drawbacks from the start, they wouldn't all feel the same

[@Jaydavid25.]

Yeah, I wish they explored SSJ god and actually made it.... More divine.. Instead it was just an insane physical stats boost..

[@shaunkennedy174]

Exactly man! I don’t get why they didn’t make more unique forms instead of 15 different color changes lol

[@lapplandkun9273]

@@Jaydavid25. Im on the same boat. They seem to be attempting to remedy that with the DBS broly movie having goku pull out a technique using his godly ki to ensnare and trap opponents, but it still just seemed to be another hair color change form for both goku and vegeta to utilize instead of actually using godly techniques and abilities. Hopefully, the future movies and the next season of DBS fix this, at least with their adaptation of the moro arc

[@lemonydime4137]

@@Jaydavid25. It is more than just a strength boost. It has healing properties.

[@TheDarkendstar]

Super saiyan 3 essentially needs the SSJ1 training regiment where goku just tries to stay in it as long as possible until he can just maintain it constantly like in the cell arc.

[@shafqatunlockedsharingon7498]

Bro I love how super Saiyan 3 looks I've been it's fan since I saw an action figure when I was a kid

[@Jedi_flodux]

I feel like SS god when it was introduced was the “strongest from”. It felt like Goku could go toe to toe with Berus. Where everyone can fight up to bar with blue

[@Craigebussan]

Ik ssj blue is supposed to be stronger than ssj god but i feel as id blue is just for endurance

[@jaop3734]

I think the ritual version of ssj god is stronger than the normal one

[@gioootalks4850]

@@Craigebussan I like this

[@kingofcrap4414]

@Holy Chicken Do God and Blue have official multipliers now?

[@shlongsucker3164]

@Holy Chicken beerus said that in the movie which isn’t canon, the arc in super corrects this

[@Artl3rt]

super saiyan god looks so cool, blue looks a little too generic

[@leultrainstinct406]

The hair color yea, but the aura is one of the greatest. Which makes the form unique.

[@robertm6590]

You think blue looks generic but God that only changes their normal hair and eye color red does not?

[@ahmedkazmi9907]

@@robertm6590 super saiyan god doesn’t just change hair and eye colour, it changes the entire physique to be more slender and skinny which is probs the most change you can see in any saiyan transformation so yes blue is a bit generic compared to ssg

[@Yuki-qh9kg]

@@robertm6590 it makes you very thin just like most gods in the series and has a really cool fire aura and exclusive abilities like healing and god bind

[@niveditsingh6063]

@@Yuki-qh9kg i think god bind has to do with god ki not ssg specifically, goku just did it again in mui and clapped moro.

[@Fartshooter2222]

I really like the legdary super sayin form tbh I like how it’s has a super sayin feel and the power of super sayin blue and green looks mad fire

[@jettthorp9444]

I think ss3 is a great form narratively, it shows that the super Saiyan form as it was practiced had limits, and it couldn't be relied on as the only way to continue growing more physically strong. I think ss3 would be controllable if the effort was put in, but it would be a huge effort, and both Vegeta and Goku realised it was more advantageous to perfect ss1, or even ss2, so that the form could be held and used without sacrifices to stamina, Edit: had no idea a lot of the same points were brought up at the end of the video

[@arcanechaos3147]

Super Saiyan 3 aka *The Raditz* Edit: Also, Super Saiyan 4 is the best looking transformation. And I will die on that hill. Anyone who has that just gets that *DRIP*.

[@Webshooters1]

Actually given what Heroes has done with the form it could be the most powerful as well as with Limits Broken there's no end to the power one can attain in SSJ4.

[@arcanechaos3147]

@@Webshooters1 I want to see more done with the form. Whether it be in What Ifs or not.

[@kylewest4044]

I like the look of Ultra Instinct way more than SSJ4

[@arcanechaos3147]

@@kylewest4044 Fair. But Omen looks better than Mastered.

[@chriscunningham5227]

@@arcanechaos3147 facts. Omen also feels better than Mastered. I do like the ssj4 design better though but to which their own

[@DJNeoncat]

GT Gogeta Be like: so basically I'm monky

[@ghettokage6104]

Monke**

[@Rude_Boi]

Monke

[@DisasterofGame]

I like the idea of using SSG and then turning tu Blue when you're about to punch enemy and I think the same method would work with Grade 3, to nullify the weakness of being too slow, although not on the current power levels of course

[@TheBlackAndDeckerBootyWrecker]

Cumber, from dragon ball Heroes basically did to SSJ3 what goku and gohan did to SSJ1; Cumber achived full power SSJ3 and was able to use the form without any of the drawbacks. The result of this was his hair turning orange and being able to keep up with SSJ Blue.

[@exnamekian]

I have a way to fix SSJ grade 3: use SSJ grade 1 or 2 to quickly grab or stun the opponent, and then switch to Grade 3 to smash them while they're immobilised

[@mr.coolcat1033]

If the villain too strong for ssj 1 or 2 to even land a punch aka Buu

[@CockAndBallTorture.]

SSJ grade 3 should greatly improve defense.

[@MUIDYLANICE]

Well this would still be incredibly flawed because grade 4 is just as strong as or stronger then grade 3 and faster then grade 1 or 2

[@dualcaster]

trunks does something similar to vegeta when they're sparring in the goku black arc

[@smokeyjoe6059]

Sounds like you play Xenoverse 2 then! 😆

[@ginger-ham4800]

It's ok, SSJ4 is already perfect.

[@gurt69]

Yeahhhh!

[@gigachad5013]

Furry

[@loafofbread5251]

Ssj4 is the most overrated thing in all of dragon ball period it shares almost every problem with ssjblue don't believe me? Both show up with no build up goku just looks at earth and goes golden great ape and after that boom ssj4 it was a literal ass pull with no build up Almost useless yep the only main villain it killed was baby it failed to beat super 17 and shin shenron and no the random jobber black dragons don't count as "main villains" Needs tons of asspull power up's? Yep it need to be healed vs baby and gets a bullshit power boost and fusion vs shin shenron and still doesn't get the job done The only reason people like it is because it looks cool but personally the design gets boring considering its shoved into almost every db media in existence if ssj4 was just ssj with purple hair or something then nobody would care

[@Sam5D]

@@loafofbread5251 every form in super is overrated lets not forget it retconned vegito because the writers were to lazy to write themselves out of it and introduced something similar to midiclorians also this dude in the video uses alot of head canon to cover supers terrible writing

[@Sam5D]

@@loafofbread5251 you also complain about power boost asspulls when literally all of db media has asspulls super being the worst culprit

[@jilingren3248]

"There's nothing wrong about Great Ape form except making it a humanoid form." SS4: "Am I joke to you?"

[@thenotoriousnephi4308]

Can't believe i accidentally stumbled on one of none other than salad snake's channels, kinda epic

[@Johnboi6969]

Actually in the manga right now, Goku does use SSG to boost up his power when he taps into ultra instinct (without turning into ultra instinct. He trained with whis to get that). It isn’t really more useful than it is in the anime but it’s a nice touch that Goku can use other forms to boost up ultra Instinct

[@unknownvetteran]

💯 it’s gon get some love but these comments don’t care they’re arguing about ssj4 🤣

[@Johnboi6969]

@MichaeL Letherman huh???? 😂you talking about the Battle of Gods Arc?? If so, what drugs are you using my guy??

[@ErenYeager-oi6hu]

@@Johnboi6969 You clearly don’t remember the foreshadowing in episode 5.

[@MUIDYLANICE]

@@ErenYeager-oi6hu you clearly don’t understand that goku had ZERO access to ultra instinct until his training with whis and even then until after he’d perfected blue (in the manga)

[@ErenYeager-oi6hu]

@@MUIDYLANICE Do you understand what foreshadowing is? John Boi had no idea what MicheaL was talking about. I never said he actually used UI.

[@IamAgent4578]

For me Super Saiyan 2 actually is something I always wanted to see.. It looks badass especially with the lightning effects. As for Super Saiyan 3, it was actually a wasted transformation. I actually love seeing it. In SDBH (although most people call it non canon), I'm actually happy to know and see that Cumber pretty much just outright transforms to Super Saiyan 3 like it was a normal thing for him. Haha! Would love see the God form again. Like it would be used first before going all out in Blue Form. 🤐

[@gokushkameha-ha-ha9344]

Cumber was ssj1 he has eyebrows. Just had long hair.

[@ProjektTaku]

@@gokushkameha-ha-ha9344 no, you can see that he has no eyebrows.

[@baki2598]

bro nothing can beat the aura god gives off it’s just to good

[@AlexMappingHD]

SSG is my fav and I am sad the fact that is getting forgotten...

[@gabe958]

But we all know the best one is... SUPER SALAD GOD

[@alexszczwpankiwicz5016]

Purple hair!

[@timloseshp53]

YESSSSSSS

[@joelanims9110]

So true lol

[@ssjay1051]

Agreed lol

[@glgameplay4061]

The most powerful form of all

[@pulmentifactorem634]

“I wonky wanna talk about things from the original manga, Soup” -this vid near the end

[@Yapperdapperdo]

I like ssj4 the best, it was a cool looking form, and it was pretty powerful

[@bluejjay]

My complaint with SSJ2 is that at first it seemed like something exclusive to Gohan but then became just another transition for everyone. The series had always hinted at his latent powers as a Saiyan human hybrid. The "SSJ2" form he reached against Cell, seemed more like SSJ1 + fully mastered latent powers. Essentially, I think this is what should have been the first instance of Mystic Gohan. Having said that, my favorite form is the fully mastered Super Saiyan 1. The idea is brilliant, Goku seems to have based the idea on the gravity training, where one acclimates themselves to a harsher environment or state so as to seem normal.

[@C4X3Music]

I think more combining techniques and forms would be cool. I love dragonball but I think sometimes instead of just unlocking new forms they should combine their new forms with older techniques to buff both

[@MUIDYLANICE]

Vegeta and goku both trying to perfect their current forms respectively so they never have to use other forms: :/

[@kneesox3298]

like with ssgss

[@Killmerightnow]

Let’s be honest here: SSJ got hella nerfed in super and needs to make a comeback. Keep in mind that SSJ Goku was folding full power final form frieza and Blueku was weaker than golden frieza without full power on.

[@Habibi_6812]

Everyone just got stronger

[@MUIDYLANICE]

Surely you must be trolling

[@evnvader1337]

Golden Frieza is in fact faster thank goku. Frieza’s new found power was actually a lot greater than goku’s in resurrection F but he couldn’t maintain it long and eventually lost the endurance battle. After that goku got stronger than Frieza since the next time they’ll meet he would have already mastered Ultra Instinct I’m not saying SSJ isn’t dope, it is but let’s not get delusional😂 SSJ 1 thanks to toriyama lost it’s grandeur all about Blue, UI, and Destruction powers for the next few arcs after super (Read the manga) so better buckle up for Prince of Destruction Vegeta and SSJGSS + ULTRA instinct. I’d love for SSJ to get some love but thanks to Moro arc theirs just no way

[@Killmerightnow]

@@evnvader1337 yea, I just wish people don’t act like it’s weak and Battle of gods “mere super sayain” quote is probably the reason. If Super sayain just so happened to be slightly more relevant I’d be happy

[@evnvader1337]

@@Killmerightnow You might just be right, When I heard that line I got bummed out because I still think gold is much better than Red or Blue, Besides my favorite form has always been SSJ3 anyway so yeah if anyone wanted to see Super Sayian come back, it’s me too!

[@gunbladeuser19]

I think one of the few ways to use Grade 3 is if it was for Defense and Grapples. but that's about it. If a person was able to grapple their opponent and hold then down and then activate grade 3, after that your team mate could also switch to grade 3 for more power to be up close and punch the person being held. That's really all I can see. using it for a secure hold/pin.