Fixing Gen 2's Terrible Pokemon

[@PokemonWoop]

Hey, thanks for watching this video! If you’re not aware, this video is sponsored by… my incredibly lonely Discord server (definitely not kidding)! If you’re interested in interacting with the growing community, directly suggesting video ideas, and possibly participating in future community events, then make sure to join! It’s a nice space to be able to directly talk to me and other people! Link: discord.gg/4txYjHqAWv

[@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8]

Hey Woop, you forgot dry skin which would be a wonderful case of irony.

[@MyNaymIsSnek1526]

Hey Woop… doesss the C*rona ability (not the virusss, the homemade ability for Magcargo) ssspeed up egg hatching? Becaussse I’m pretty sssure that the only reassson anyone usssesss Magcargo isss for Masssuda breeding.

[@yahRUCKyah]

Seven year old me had a first time play through team of Chikorita, Noctowl, and Ledyba. I thought the game was impossible after Bugsy

[@Curaga-y6t]

my chicka got crit on a spearow the only mon I had so went back to my house...the game was telling me something XD

[@zebjensen4251]

I love all those pokemon

[@orange6259]

I had to opposite journey, me and chikorita couldn’t pass bugsy since for some reason I kept using rock smash against scyther. I passed him by growing so comically powerful everything else was a cake walk. This was my first Pokémon game so it was super scuffed

[@ianmcandrew7893]

I rocked the Noctowl on my first play through of gold and distinctly remember waiting for it to get better, but it just never did. Hit everything soft as hell 😂

[@silviocupica2521]

@@orange6259 For a second I thought Rock Smash was a Rock-type move, so I was really confused about how you couldn't beat a Scyther with it

[@bireland2012]

Gen 2’s new Pokemon are so well hidden I thought a lot of them were from gen 3. Magcargo fits so well being from Hoenn. Same goes for Misdreavus and Lanturn.

[@PokemonWoop]

Honestly, Magcargo might as well be Gen 3 since it's basically nonexistent in Gen 2

[@stupidpros]

Skarmory too

[@youtube-kit9450]

Whoever thought putting such a weak pokémon into the post game, have it evolve at level 37 or something and evolve into a poké with the BST of a second stage starter who has high defense which is worthless because of its myriads of (4x) weaknesses... seriously GF, what the hell.@@PokemonWoop

[@egotrips4810]

I always thought Magcargo and Skarmory were from gen 3 LOL

[@RLocke142]

@@egotrips4810 I did as well.

[@dundee6402]

In the 97 demo of Gold, beta Noctowl actually learned Moonlight! I have no idea why they removed from its movepool in the final game, despite thematically and mechanically (being a defensive Pokemon and all) making a ton of sense.

[@PokemonWoop]

Yeah, it felt like the beta had a lot of really awesome features that sadly never made it in

[@pokeperson1000]

You mean that sadly haven’t made it in?

[@duckymomo7935]

It gets roost

[@dundee6402]

@@duckymomo7935 Yeah, but that wasn't introduced until gen 4

[@clausroquefort9545]

they probably thought that having both hypnosis and a healing move was too OP

[@SemiHypercube]

-catch new Pokemon whose Dex entries describe how much it punches things -look inside -base 35 attack

[@tangerinepaint3643]

It has to punch a lot because of that low attack stat lol

[@doot64]

Why is this video edited like a creepypasta

[@calvinadams5935]

It's not just me omg

[@user-hdhdhhdhdhsnjdjdjdioowj]

The music and random b-reels of hallways and random spaces give it a weird feel combined with his deeper voice.

[@RoarkeIsBored]

Aesthetic reasons I assume, I like it though

[@ChronoCartographer]

A creepypasta KZbinr trapped in a Pokemon KZbinrs body

[@LazurBeemz]

This guy's vids are always wack like that

[@gloweye]

Funnily enough, those Slugma changes would stop it from doing the only thing I used it for - hatching eggs faster.

[@PokemonWoop]

Well, I guess it's useful for one thing

[@bloemkoolendestreetgang450]

Maybe slugma could retain magma armor/flame body, and get corona upon evolving. Or magma armor could just remain as a second ability it can get OR corona could even have the same egg hatching effect as magma armor/flame body, since it has the same effect as flame body in battle and would make thematical sense

[@MisterPancake778]

Slugma huevos (bad joke sorry)

[@HenriqueRJchiki]

Slugma balls

[@Chaospirex]

@@bloemkoolendestreetgang450I think magma armor could just have the abilities of corona instead so it just gets a major buff cause honestly as an ability it’s very bad

[@heatran1919]

Man, I'd love to see Noctowl get the Annihilape treatment with a new fearsome Flying/Ghost evo. Shift it to be the speedy physical attacker it could have been, and maybe Eviolite Noctowl can better perform the bulky support role it was intended for

[@sameenmacaron5398]

right! Especially since as a flying type it’ll have access to roost (reliable recovery), something a lot of defensive Pokémon lack

[@j_g_t6091]

I truly feel Noctowl should be a special attacker

[@darkenedpp]

Eh, I like it being a speedy special attacker but Flying/Ghost is cool

[@pnealiv7443]

Think it's a good candidate for an Evo (maybe based on its bulky af beta design?) and Shadow Tag. Hypnosis/Nightmare/Roost/Air Slash would go hard with Eviolite and Shadow Tag 😁

[@ugn154]

Why make it physical if it can use Psychic type moves? Make it an old, wise wizard owl with even higher sp def.

[@thatsabruhmoment17]

i think even Game Freak agrees that gen 2 mons are infamous for being underwhelming. Look at how many of them got a second chance in Hisui and Paldea. Evos for single stagers like Wyrdeer and Farigiraf, regional forms with Qwilfish and even paradox mons like Iron Bundle and Treads

[@PokemonWoop]

It makes me wonder why they made so many filler Pokemon for Gen 2

[@thatsabruhmoment17]

@@PokemonWoop I've read somewhere that since it was their second game, gsc wasn't made when "generations" exist as a concept, so it was more of an expansion of rby rather than an entire new generation like rse would be

[@sebastiankulche]

​@@PokemonWoopThey were a bit pretentious and they though technology/impressive variety>quality

[@Aurirang]

@@sebastiankulche When it came out, it worked quite well to be fair. GSC was for a long time the most beloved generation (until Sinnoh dropped i suppose) And the many new features (day/night cycle, rebattling, events depending on the day etc) kinda glossed over the fact, that alot new Pokémon were actually awful. But it also fixed the typing errors and added two new types, even if they were criminally underused in their own game.

[@sebastiankulche]

@@Aurirang I think GSC is like Crash Twinsanity in the fact that its a "take it or leave it" type of game. Not all people would click with its design aproach but the ones they do find its the best game ever. But thats a double edge sword that other games in the series didnt had. Even Gen 1 with all of its technical issues was a more "consistent" game, and thats the game you are not allowed to like.

[@Clemehl]

When I bought and first played Pokémon Silver as a child, I picked Chikorita. I loved Ivysaur in Pokémon Blue: it was a real threat with Sleep Powder and Razor Leaf _(I prevented it to evolve into Venusaur, because I thought it was diseased and suffering)._ At level 8, Chikorita learnt *Razor Leaf.* I was ecstatic: the best Grass-type moves this early? This is crazy! Bulbasaur used to be at least level 13 to learn the weaker *Vine Whip!* Then I quickly realized that the Critical Hit formula changed, and Razor Leaf wasn't as good. The disappointment/deception grew bigger when I realized that Meganium wasn't a Fighter, but more a Support Pokémon. It learns Reflect, Light Screen and Safeguard, moves I removed or didn't learn. My child brain didn't compute that, on a game that was too easy to even need Support. It also learns Synthesis, which is useless when you have healing items. PoisonPowder and Body Slam were there to spread status. But where is Leech Seed, and mostly: Sleep Powder? What is the point of a Support Pokémon that don't have access to the most useful Support moves?! In the end, my Meganium ended as a true Support Pokémon: it learnt Cut, Strength and Flash, taking some hit when needed so I could put some Revive on my Ampharos.

[@veghesther3204]

Chikorita is still PURE CRAP in Gen 2 Bulbasaur is still BETTER.

[@jameshuntington8644]

omfg the hm starter is actually brilliant. Feels awful but brilliant 😭😭

[@pnealiv7443]

Meganium can be a real offensive threat with Earthquake/Swords Dance/ Body Slam/Synthesis. It can also actually get Leech Seed as an egg move. Ironically, for all the hate it gets, Meganium is actually the best starter of the first two games. None of the Gen 1 starters were OU when they hit the scene (except Venusaur for a hot minute in the early days, since it was a Sword Dance user that wasn't checked by Rhydon/Golem), Feraligatr got royally screwed by the physical/special split, and there's really no reason to use Typhlosion over most of the other fire types unless you REALLY need one that can run Dynamicpunch. Meganium tho? It can sweep with Swords Dance OR support with Dual screens and Leech Seed. Apart from Celebi (and arguably Victreebel), it's def the best grass type in GSC, and the best starter of the first 2 gens 😎

[@starmangalaxy2001]

"My child brain couldn't compute that" I think this is why the future grass starters stopped being support pokemon. Razor Leaf was still really good as its first STABS considering that by level up, the closest competition is Flame wheel learned by Quilava at level 31, which is still only 60 BP (Seriously, why is gen 2 Cyndaquil so bad, it doesn't even get Flamethrower until level 60)

[@starmangalaxy2001]

​@@veghesther3204Gen 2 Chikorita is pretty solid, it's Gen 4 Chikorita that should make you Vomit.

[@robertlupa8273]

6:58 Also the move is called "Firefly Light" in Japanese and I'd say Lanturn could work as a sort of "deep sea firefly". Plus, Manaphy can learn also it and it doesn't have a tail nor is it a firefly, so I don't see why Lanturn shouldn't be able to learn it. It's mediocre enough that it wouldn't be broken with Tail Glow.

[@beautifly795]

lanturn has been my favorite pokemon for 10 years so seeing it get some recognition makes me immensely happy

[@stevesteve222]

I like it too! It has some decent use in Radical Red

[@caldw615]

I've been replaying Crystal and it's done me well. It's a bit slow and it takes more exp to level up but it's very tanky and you get some amazing coverage if you manage to teach it Ice Beam from the guy who wants Casino coins on certain days of the week in Goldenrod.

[@coralanturn]

Hell yeah. Best happy fishy

[@andreivaldez2929]

One of my faves too. It just looks so happy or carefree in all its artworks, makes me feel good when I catch one even if he's not so good.

[@GroyperShaco]

it also solos lance

[@TheOriginalJphyper]

Another good idea for Sunflora, at least in the remakes, would be Weather Ball. That would further synergize with the sun theme. The level-up list is getting a bit crowded, though, so maybe make it an egg move.

[@jameshuntington8644]

This would lock the move to postgame as Roserade is the only compatible parent. Otherwise you'd have to trade from another save file which is another accessibility limitation I know developers like this usually try to avoid.

[@TheOriginalJphyper]

@@jameshuntington8644 That's a good point. Might have to add it to another grass-type's move list.

[@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8]

Tbh weather ball prolly should be a TM somewhere.

[@anmspafan7855]

Let more pokemon learn weather ball, and let it be transferred more via mirror herb. It's a cool move that's rarely seen on anything but Castform

[@cesar6447]

nah, look at cherrim, sun on plant is not good strategy on pokemon so weak

[@Kinra_Jade]

For Magcargo, Magma Armor could be reworked as a Water Bubble variant: increase Fire attacks's BP, make immune to freeze and halves damage from Water type attacks. Also maintain its field effect. That way, it also helps Camerupt.

[@thepokesannin4434]

That’s….actually a really great idea. And would make this forgotten ability relevant again. Well done

[@Kinra_Jade]

@@thepokesannin4434 Thank you. =)

[@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8]

Still 2 times weak to water, and with magcargos special defense it’s dying anyways

[@frankfs8415]

This comment leaves all of the changes in the video without a job. It's strange nobody thought of this comparison earlier

[@dinoooooom]

​@@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8 it dosent have to be unstoppable though, every mon needs a weakness

[@waterierStone]

I was so pissed when they had sunflora as the main pokemon for the grass gym and they didn't give it an evolution or anything. I guess they made scovillain exist, but they still gave it split attacking stats like Cacturn, so there's still not a more fun to use grass/fire type.

[@devinthedog3204]

What are you talking about

[@kingofrunescapepking]

@@devinthedog3204 in Scarlet/Violet, Sunflora was the mascot of the Grass gym

[@bulborb8756]

unfortunately, sunflora is never going to get an evolution because it's a stone evolution, and as we have seen: if a pokemon evolves via the use of a evolution stone, that's it, they cannot evolve further also no: the oval stone does not count, that's an item that happiny needs to hold to evolve, so it does not function in the same vain as the fire stone or dusk stone for example

[@JayClearman411]

Yup that was a terrible misstep. I was hoping it’d get some love too, a stat buff or maybe a regional variant Like lilligant got. Make it psychic with a cool alternative form maybe like Cherrim where it has an overcast form when it’s raining etc and a sunshine form with an ability like seed sower. Or you can make it evo due to happiness + intense sunlight

[@TrueLooneyman]

Funny that you bring up Noctowl, as I did use that during a run of the remakes. It ended up being utterly ridiculously good. Even walling Lance's level 50 dragonite and bringing it down without a level advantage. I must have had the lord of all Noctowl.

[@goldenhate6649]

Noctowl is decent, but just outclassed by similar niche pokemon. That being said, its easy to get unlike say Skarmory.

[@PokemonWoop]

Noctowl in HGSS is pretty good since it actually gets some special moves, but using it Gen 2 is painful. You're stuck with Peck until after Chuck

[@depotheose7890]

Fixing johto pokemon with one word: accessibility

[@federicogou]

I actually used Lanturn in my main team in Gen 4 and it did great. A bulky electric/water type with leftovers that absorbs water/electric attacks can resist a lot of turns. And it also can defend itself with a Surf, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Toxic...

[@LudiColorado]

Lanturn in gen 4 is MUCH better than Lanturn in gen 2. Volt absorb in particular gives it a niche and great synergy with some common Pokémon like Gyarados. In gen 2 all it really has going for it is electric typing/STAB, otherwise it’s a pretty average bulky ish water type. Maybe not as bad as some of the mons in this video but not great either

[@The_Ninja_Tree]

Imagine if it could two shot anything that isn't quad weak to it

[@cmck362]

@@LudiColorado It's still one of the better waters for an in game playthrough in gen 2. Stab water/electric is just really strong. Kind of like how quagsire is also really good with water/ground even though its stats are meh. If I had to rank it vs other waters it'd make the top 5, but only barely. If you really want to shit on a gen 2 water type then look at corsola.

[@MisterPancake778]

I like how almost all these pokes are presented for you to snag in Colosseum 1 which ramps up the difficulty in that game given how little options they give you.

[@ilikestamps2978]

Manaphy doesn't have a tail either so that's pretty reasonable giving it to lanturn, also I'm pretty sure Sunflora already gets earth power

[@BJGvideos]

Isn't that a tail on its head? On Manaphy?

[@PokemonWoop]

Yeah, Sunflora gets Earth Power by tutor in HGSS, but I think giving it by level up would make it more viable in a playthrough

[@Noname-lx2gq]

I really loved this video. The concept to help make these Pokémon better while being practical. Also, I loved the liminal aesthetic you did with the editing. By putting liminal space photos in the background, putting a grainy filter on the video, even putting a somber but familiar sounding music. I really loved the extra touch of the first few Pokémon getting they’re on transition and name. I wish the last few had those. Overall. Amazing video. I got this randomly in my recommended and do not regret watching this.

[@TheRagnarokknight]

I think the easiest way to fix Chikorita is just give it Ancientpower. It's a good move early on and it covers the first 2 gyms no problem. It gets it as an egg move, anyway. So why not? Honestly, I think just giving most of these pokemon some of their Egg moves as standard pretty much fixes their problems.

[@bolthamos]

Would 100% like to see more of these videos, the focus on hypothetical stats & move sets is a great change from the usual design revamp. Also fun to think of these Pokémon becoming competitive one day :'>

[@dr.ericomatsushita6290]

I second that 👏

[@danielb.3534]

Gen 2 had so much potential but just didnt get what it deserved

[@chrisjohnsen8448]

Lanturn doesn't really need to be fixed, imo. I've used it before and it performs great in Johto.

[@HawkySB]

Yeah Lanturn was the MVP of my crystal nuzlocke

[@shawngallagher8764]

@@HawkySBI’ve played two nuzlockes, Gold and HG. Dunsparce was my Gold mvp

[@Ferropexola1996]

It would be better if Ice Beam and Thunderbolt were available before post-game in Crystal, but that's more of a problem with the game itself and not Lanturn.

[@cmck362]

@@Ferropexola1996 Yeah a lot of waters get screwed in gen 2 by locking ice beam and thunderbolt to post game. They don't typically have hands so they don't get thunder punch and ice punch like everyone else. Starmie is a great example of this. It gets surf then has to wait for after the E4 for psychic, ice beam, and thunderbolt.

[@MisterPancake778]

I used Lanturn in a randomizer run and that one carried me, tank and a great coverage

[@Clemehl]

About Ledian, I remember that Azumarill gained a lot of power when it had access to Huge Power. I think it is possible to create a similar yet thematic ability to replace Iron Fist: - *Myria Fists:* Punching moves hit 4 times at half power _(secondary effects only apply once after the fourth hit)._ For example: instead of dealing 70 BP with Ice Punch, you would deal 4×35=140 BP. Perhaps the secondary effects could apply twice instead to mimick _Parental Bond._ With this new ability, Ledian don't need a huge stats redistribution, but could simply enjoy a +20 to Attack (35 → 55) to be on par with its Sp. Atk stat. Something Gamefreak already done (they changed Hidden Abilities and increased stats by 10 or 20). Ledian could fit as a Bug / *Fairy.* Well, Ledian fit a lot of type, on top of Flying: - *Fighting:* Ledian was inspired by Pulseman, a cyborg created by Gamefreak that saves the day: a Superhero. But Heracross shares the typing. - *Psychic:* It has connection with the Stars. Everything linked to stars and space like Cosmic Power, is Psychic-type. But Orbeetle, another ladybug, share the typing. - *Electric?:* Due to its bioluminescent powder that bring luck to those touch by it, and its Pulseman / Cyborg inspiration. Yet, if Volbeat isn't Electric, Ledian has lesser claim. Fairy is a nice amalgamation of all this. Ledian fills more the hero's sidekick than the hero, Fairy overlap many Psychic ideas about Night/Morning and luck-powder. To be fair, Ledian has better claim to be Bug / Fairy than Cutiefly.

[@comet6415]

for Ledian I think they should go the opposite direction. lean into it's utility, it's got a dex entry that talks about it's connection to the stars so give it Cosmic power. totally scrap it's abilities and give it unaware and oblivious so it can wall or set up better along with a slight increase to it's HP. Ledian gets a ton of great set up moves like agility, swords dance, lightscreen, reflect, tailwind, double team, safeguard, and of course the most important. Baton Pass. with a boost to it's survivability it could set up on a special attacker and then baton pass to a sweeper. imagine a cosmic powered Tyrantrum with lightscreen.

[@Gay_Priest]

Psychic could work. Or beetle may already have that typing, but Ledian came first, so in this hypothetical, or beetle would be copying ledian

[@electricipea.101]

I love that custom ability, that's basically an idea I had for a Ledian ability, considering the dex says that it prefers quantity over quality of its punches!

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

I mean there's a shit ton of Normal/Flying and Bug/Flying, so who cares if Ledian and Heracross share a Type?

[@BlueJay73FFS]

I think it's kind of poetic that there are a lot of weaker Pokemon in Gen II while also being the same games that gave us the quote from Karen, "Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled trainers should try to win with their favorites." While it is fun to theorize and speculate about making Pokemon stronger to the point that some people make entire fan games just to do so, I think it's also important to acknowledge that one of the most important things about this fandom is that every single Pokemon has at least one fan who has that Pokemon as their all-time favorite. Yeah, Sunflora may not have the best stats, but I've watched someone solo the entirety of Crystal with just one Sunflora as their only Pokemon, and it was amazing to see them take down Red with it at the end. Magcargo is one of my favorite fire types and I always have a lot of fun working around its weaknesses whenever I use one in a playthrough. Regardless it was a fun video and got me thinking about how we could change some other Pokemon as well, but it is also still nice to appreciate the Pokemon that we do have.

[@CurmudgeonMedia]

great video as always, and it's funny you should suggest aromatherapy for Sunflora since sunflowers are one of the few flowers that basically don't have a fragrance lol

[@grimms-vi1874]

Kind of want to see it happen for the Samurai Champloo reference, or maybe the idea that the Fire type heated it up enough that it's starting to toast.

[@CurmudgeonMedia]

@@grimms-vi1874 yessss, samurai champloo is 100% the only reason I know sunflowers have no fragrance 😂

[@getrektrektget6181]

Magcargo having water absorb would fit so good cause magcargo design is based off of a snail that lives close to vents deep in the sea and it's really hot there justifying it's fire type, also those snails have iron scales so giving them a steel type would be a huge Buff.

[@no3396]

They’re not bad Pokémon. They just grew up in the inner city and come from a broken home.

[@livingbehind661]

they r not good ppl. just grew up in the outer city n never knew wat home is. bypass them on ur way to nature 😆

[@kelp5801]

Sunflora should get a grass/fire evolution or at least a stat change. It has a very decent movepool.

[@Cysco8575]

01:55 I don't find Lanturn knowing Tail Glow controversial since Sudowoodo can learn Wood Hammer and is not even made of wood Also other mons like Dugtrio knowing Aerial Ace, Gastly and Wooper knowing Ice Punch and Alakazam and Primeape knowing Iron Tail

[@YouAreThatGuy]

In Pokémon unbound, they give magcargo the ability “evaporate” which raises his special attack when hit with a water move, it’s pretty cool

[@badusername5334]

I dont think you need to use a custom ability for magcargo. You can fix him by giving him solid rock, thus halving his weaknesses, and buffing his special attack so he can be a slow special wall that hits hard with stuff like ancient power, power gem, fire blast, etc.

[@DiscoBoy678]

Even though my gen 3 Lanturn was surprisingly great, our boy definitely deserves more love

[@PokemonWoop]

Yeah, Lanturn is pretty decent, but it has so much more potential!

[@zate5355]

"Itll just die to ground and water types". That 2 of 17 types. Its not unsalvagable at all

[@andreivaldez2929]

Gen 2 Pokémon are just sad in general. Even the ones they "fixed" by giving evolutions are effectively acknowledgements that they messed up bad.

[@PokemonWoop]

Imagine if they never got evolutions. Pretty much all of gen 2 would just be forgotten

[@henryalberts539]

I feel like Magcargo's ability could have just been Dry Skin. It gives it a water immunity, its negative effect is counteracted by Mag's typing, and it makes enough sense considering Magcargo's body evaporating water.

[@EbuCallinav]

Almost, except for the part where it loses 1/8 of it's HP during heatwaves and recovers 1/8 during rain.

[@bulborb8756]

@@EbuCallinav yeah given these mechanic's of dry skin...the ability just does not make sense on magcargo and in fact would instead completely go against it's typing

[@gircakes2]

It also is accurate to snails needing rain to survive and drying out in harsh sunlight.

[@dntremad8290]

On an unrelated note, gen 2 Meganium sprite looks SO GOOD easily the best Meganium sprite

[@Epzilon12]

I actually think the lanturn change might make it worse in competitive. You’d overall make it less bulky and it’s sort of a.. weird bulky pivot. It would use things like volt switch, toxic, etc. I do wish sir was slightly better as lanturn is my boy

[@bradleycope120]

I think the only thing Lanturn really needs is a small bump to its special stats. Ive been using Lanturn for a long while now and its already pretty versatile, especially with good team coverage, so just hitting things a little harder would go a LONG way for our little angler fish pal

[@Epzilon12]

Yeah, I think a little extra special attack (and maybe recover) would do a lot for the little guy. Nothing serious, but also power creep has never been kind to gen 2. Even Tyranitar has fallen

[@returnofskurk1633]

I notice a lot of people bring up Ledian, but very few bring up Ariados. It also has a lot of problems like Ledian.They used to share the same bst of 390 until Ariados got buffed up to 400. Both of them could use a stat rework or an evolution. Yes Ariados does have a attack stat of 90, but the rest of the stats it has is bad or garbage, like speed.

[@oniricfantasy6687]

Out of Johto, my way to "buff" magcargo would be by giving him a unique move able to bring on the "Extremely harsh sunlight" clime, something like "Burning Day".

[@agentblackbird9435]

I thought Ledian was Bug/Fighting like Heracross, so I’m glad you made the change Magcargo always made me sad tbh. Both it and Slugma have such a cool concept with being slugs (viscous animals) made of magma/lava (a viscous fluid). I’m also upset about its shiny. The pink is actually pretty good, but I’ve just always preferred its blue shiny from GSC

[@wish_cave]

putting lanturn on a video like this in the same breath as pokemon like sunflora and ledian is actually a crime. absolutely serviceable on in-game teams even if it isn't the best, while the others (besides meganium) are borderline unusable

[@bluebaron6811]

Hey dude! Magcargo kind of got fixed in the Teal Mask dlc for gen 9! Obviously it's still old crumby Margo, but they finally gave it Power Gen instead of the awful Ancient Power. And with Shell Smash and Weak Armor, one wrong blow to Magcargo that doesn't kill it can make it snowball out of control, making it impossibly fast and hits harder than a drunk mother. For gen 2 Margo though... yeah he is very hard to fix.

[@wigglytuffenjoyer]

Love this video, if you ever make a gen one version, please address buffing Wigglytuff

[@Tuskor130]

Give Magcargo an ability that, when hit by a Water move, raises it's Def by 1 stage instead of damaging it. The idea behind it is that it's lava body is so hot that water just turns it to stone. Listen, if Orthworm can heal a quarter of it's max HP when hit by Ground moves, and Eelektross can be completely immune to it's only natural weakness, then I think Magcargo should be allowed to have a similar ability, because unlike Magcargo, Orthworm and Eelektross at least have good stats and moves.

[@wardious2562]

Honestly, I think Magma Armor reducing the damage taken by Water attacks makes more sense than giving it Water Absorb or giving a really bad mon a signature ability.

[@robertlupa8273]

Wait, Noctowl can't learn Icy Wind via TM in Gen 2? ...huh, now that I've checked, most Flying types can't learn it. Weird. I thought it'd be a somewhat widespread move just because it's wind-based.

[@junkyporpoise4254]

GF: alright so, we’ve created Ledian, a punching Ladybird/Alien, what do you think it’s stats should be? ATK? Also GF: *Special Defence*

[@AsheSkye]

Lanturn was been an extremely vital defensive presence on competitive teams in the mid tiers for 20 years with many niches into even OU. Not every pokemon has to be an offensive powerhouse.

[@MrMonkey2150]

I wish it got moonlight

[@dinoooooom]

​​​​@@MrMonkey2150 it wouldn't make sense though. The fish the lanturn is based on lives in ocean levels with no light present at all. Maybe it could've gotten an electric move that resembles morning sun/moonlight, but I doubt gamefreak would ever do that in a future johto game

[@withinthrall1445]

Pokémon and Bethesda games like fallout have one thing in common. They’re critically acclaimed games that have somehow stood the test of time, and the programmers for each game are somehow so inept that they can’t release a properly functioning game to save their lives.

[@LilGian1]

For gen 4 please fix Purugly. It’s my favorite Pokémon. It’s surprisingly fast and that’s pretty much all it has going for it.

[@Maraflor]

I think another good ability for Magcargo would be a variant on Water Compaction. So instead of still taking damage from water moves and getting +2 defense, it would get water immunity and a +1 defense.

[@herowither12354]

Here's a small aditional change: Politoed to Water/Poison and Bellossom to Grass/Fairy or Grass/Fire.

[@Maconviking]

Adding an additional type to our beloved Dino is interesting but doesn’t fit with the other gen two starters

[@oliverleonard7730]

Give Typhlosion Dragon Type and Feraligatr Dark Type would that work?

[@evenhartwick4422]

i don't think its nessisary for the starters to all have a single type or a duel type. i mean Charizard and Venasuar are both duel type while Blastoice is a single type

[@benjystrauss2524]

Interesting ideas, although not really a fan of these choices. Giving Meganium Leech Seed (as level up as opposed to an egg move) is a given. Noctowl, Lanturn, Ledian, and Magcargo need evolutions. Noctowl could use a moveset fix, but Lanturn has all the moves it needs. The sad thing about Ledian is you can actually fix it (and have it NOT be broken) by slapping Wonder Guard on it. Also, while Meganium and Lanturn may not fare well in Johto, they're a bit better in Hoenn (Meganium needs to be traded from Colosseum/XD or hacked unless you are playing certain ROM Hacks)

[@psyachu]

There's a romhack called Emerald ROWE that I played that was basically Pokemon emerald with updated mechanics, Pokemon up to gen 7, and of course some tweaks to some Pokemon. Lantern had 3 things that made me decide to use it. 1: a slight boost to stats. I think it just got a little special atk. 2: Tail Glow, which is like what you said. Finally, 3: illuminate had a massive buff. It raises the user's accuracy by 1 stage when it's sent into battle, thus making those low accuracy moves extremely viable.

[@kregheckel3628]

Honestly given later Gen movesets giving Magcargo access to Shell Smash, all you could really add on is making Simple an available ability for it which could allow it to explode into some real battle potential.

[@ethanhess8230]

I don’t think it would be too out of place to make noctowl a ghost type, since another owl Pokémon is one in the form of decidueye

[@Mattias_the_unimpressive]

I like Chikorita and buffing it is of real interest to me. But if it got a 2nd typing, I would pick Rock. It fits better with being a dino, the earlier it learns ancientpower the better, and the defensive profile is neat as well.

[@PokemonWoop]

Yeah, now that you mention it, Johto needs more rock types

[@nickdentoom1173]

And there is the thing that Meganium getting Rock would also eliminate two weaknesses (I am saying 2, since while it loses Fire, Poison and Flying as a weakness, it gains Fighthing).

[@Mattias_the_unimpressive]

@@nickdentoom1173 And steel, but only Jasmine's Steelix threatens with iron tail. In the end 2 resistances and 4 weaknesses sounds worse than it is.

[@Bruh-Moment435]

I think for Ledian having its attack increased to like 50 but giving it huge power as an ability (since insects are known to be strong for their size and because of the sentai super hero theme) then give it like +10 HP and +10 Def while making it fighting and bug would be good

[@WowItsBow]

Great video! Awesome retro aesthetic and all of the suggestions made the pokemon so much more interesting, I really like the Magcargo improvements

[@EstradusTheDragon]

Unown was in the cover art but never got mentioned. Give my eldritch letter eyes some love!

[@matthewsullivan3804]

Some mons get completely screwed over in playthroughs by their learnsets. Either they get good moves way too late, never get anything, or start with decent moves and never get anything more. It would make sense if you had to use TMs to make good pokemon truly good - like a hidden gem - but usually strong pokemon just get given good learnsets while the mid mons have to rely on TMs, just to still be weaker. Just one of the reasons why Game Freak just aren't good at game design overall, they have a few nice ideas here and there but the consistency is nonexistent.

[@bretton_woods]

Love the editing on your videos dude, the music works really well too

[@BrianStorm742]

8:59 how would Earth Power help against Bug-types? Bug resists Ground.

[@epicgamersaurus]

This might be a bit much but I think Drought would fit Magcargo really well. I figured that’s where you we going with helping it out against water and it is hotter than the sun.

[@artimist0315]

Bug/psychic feels like a better fit for Ledian, with its heavy association to space and stars. Bug/fighting just seems a but too common among good Pokémon and it would make it stand out as not being just a poor's man heracross/UC.

[@doozsromhacks]

based. its bug psychic in my romhack and more of a spatker (but its mixed technically due to movepool)

[@doozsromhacks]

i hate how everyone is brainwashed to like bug fighting ledian and physical ledian it makes no sense

[@LuDogg805]

Off the topic... but I always had an idea for a item base Pokemon... A plastic bowl Pokemon... make it Normal and the ability will be Plastic Body... immune to Water and Poison, but weak to Fire.

[@WinVisten]

Fun fact: Hoothoot can learn Moonlight in the Spaceworld 1997 prototype.

[@PokemonWoop]

I wonder what led Game Freak to remove such good additions from the beta

[@PokeTaleG]

Hello! I thought I’d mention this, I played through Pokemkn Heartgold with only Shinies recently and decided to breed for a shiny Chikorita with Ancient Power and Leech Seed. She was absolutely incredible. Pretty solid in Jhoto, and absolutely broken in Kanto.

[@cjer6040]

I think these pokemon are plenty usable, if you use them right. Meganium is a pretty decent screen-setter that can be annoyingly bulky or fill a cleric role with aromatherapy; Lanturn sits in an odd spot with Seaking where it's one of very few pokemon who can resist Boltbeam coverage through its ability (and STAB Thunder in the rain at least hits decent while also having water type moves be boosted) Magcargo has gotten Shell Smash and Explosion over the years and honestly, I've had a lot of funny moments using one in the past. I sincerely love the funny meme snail. Sunflora Ledian can actually set screens too, while being a tad more aggressive than Meganium (It doesn't have the bulk or cleric options, so it has nothing to do other than u-turn or use something boosted by iron fist) Noctowl actually sees some use in GSC UU as a reflect user that can put things to sleep and spam night shade with an alternative Curse set (which is very funny) as you can see, they can all have a use in lower tiers if you try hard enough and are willing to put in a little bit of work :D stay gameing, gamers

[@PokemonWoop]

Sunflora. That is all

[@cjer6040]

Yeah I couldn't think of anything good to say about it lol

[@cartergamegeek]

Sunflora having a base 30 Speed is something I would love to see stay. If they removed Chlorophyll and made it far more bulky or made an evolution that was for more bulky you could use the base 30 Speed for Trick Room. Having Speed this low is a good Trick Room benchmark and that would be nice on a slower hard hitting Fire/Grass type. Trick Room needs things under a Base Speed of 45. I love dropping under that benchmark. You could easily give it a better Ability that replaces Chlorophyll so we keep a slow bulky damage dealer. Fire/Grass would be amazing for that. I have wanted a Fire version of Storm Drain for years now and this could be a fun Ability for a slow bulky Fire/Grass type. Or any of the other plant Abilities that could help a Trick Room set.

[@Emperor_Atlantis]

Pokemon Crystal Legacy fixed the bad pokemon with small buffs or movepool changes to make them somewhat viable. Its a good romhack

[@sunny74763]

I like woops editing style and music choice

[@MugenAeternum]

Sunflora not being Grass/Fire was a missed opportunity

[@PokemonWoop]

It was actually supposed to be grass/psychic, but then they just decided to make it trash

[@angelovertim2360]

Wow, here I clicked expecting a good-enough video, but your esthetic is truly unique. Congrats man, you earned a sub.

[@Santrevi15]

In radical red, Meganium is Grass Fairy, Ledian is Bug Fight and Sunflora is Grass Fire. With also better stats

[@artimist0315]

I think Grass/Electric would be a better fit for sunflora. It fits its colour palet and shape much better as looks more or less like lieutenant Surge's gym badge, and it wouldn't be illogical with it being a sort of natural solarpannel. ideally it could really use an evolution, it looks pityfully weak as it is.

[@nine_tails137]

I agree with everything you said about Ledian. As for Noctowl, I'm fine with it staying Normal/Flying, since it gives ghost immunity.

[@PokemonWoop]

Yeah, I saw some people say it should be ghost/flying, but that gives it too many weaknesses, so I opted to just make it an honorary ghost type

[@nine_tails137]

@@PokemonWoop Honestly, I recall a lot of people saying Noctowl should be Psychic/Flying, but like you said with the ghost/flying part, it gives more weaknesses. Also, making it pure ghost type, just doesn't feel right to me, since Ghosts are supposed to be spirits of dead creatures, and Noctowl isn't dead. But the moves you suggested sound good. Although I would give it Air Cutter, since it already knows Air Slash.

[@ratiroo1124]

Yeah, "fixing." Because they need to be fixed, right? As players of these games, we're just acclaimed experts of redesign and know precisely how to make something good when something just isn't. Nevermind the idea that we believe these Pokémon need to be quote-on-quote "fixed" because Pokémon continue to become increasingly overpowered. We need to bring these Pokémon up to speed instead of rectifying the over-the-top nature of newer generations of Pokémon. Right? Give me a break.

[@Flametric]

You should also give Sunflora drought as its ability. Not only because of the additional Fire typing that you suggested and also because it's... a sun, but also because the Pokemon manga suggests that Gold's Sunflora supports Typhlosion using Sunny Day

[@morguenmorguen6862]

I always thought it would be incredibly cool if Unown's gimmick were something like that it can use any move that begins with its letter. Sacred Fire, Spore, Spikes, and Spider Web at least make it functional as a Smeargle replacement sometimes.

[@nolanryan5653]

Fantastic video man keep up the great work ur format is rlly fun and unique and ur commentary is precise and to the point, stick with it man!

[@RedDragonForce2]

@ 7:00 Manaphy also learns Tail Glow, but it doesn’t have a light on its tail. It’s actually the Antennae. So Lantern getting isn’t controversial so much as a much needed buff that would make it busted in the lower tiers.

[@うさひめ]

Just wanna note that the tone of the video feels really good due to the soundtrack. It's extremely calm and that made it very dif from other pokémon content, SH+Pokémon vibes.

[@pablothewartortle3143]

I think Jumpluff could do with some buffs. It’s definitely the best new grass type option in Johto but that really isn’t saying anything It’s meant to be a fast disrupter so I’d boost its speed to 135 to help it keep up with the modern day speed creep, I’d also boost HP to 80 and Defence to 85 so it doesn’t explode immediately if it gets hit. Ability wise replace Leaf Guard with Fluffy to make it actually somewhat bulky against physical attacks A few moves it could get are Parting Shot, Yawn, Fake Out and if you’re crazy Spore. Jumpluff was already an okay sun pokemon in VGC but with these buffs it could be more consistently good

[@Celon549]

I've tinkered with some ROMhacking on and off to try to bring some of my own ideas for buffs to life. Granted, I'm not exactly at a level of ROMhacking skill to really flesh it out, but I've at least been able to plug some ideas in with the mons in this video. Meganium - While I'm all for making it Grass/Fairy in later generations, it's absolutely horrible for it in Johto specifically, since it makes the plethora of Poison-types all that more annoying. That said, I gave it 93 (+10) in Special Attack to benefit its more suitable offensive stat. Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, and Ancient Power are added to the level-up movepool much like your take, and I swapped out the Hidden Ability Leaf Guard with Natural Cure, since NC suits its more passive, healing nature better than situation sun-based status curing. Noctowl - I bumped its Defense up to 55 (+5), Special Attack up to 101 (+15), and Speed up to 80 (+10). This makes it more of a special attacking all-rounder, being able to play both aggressively with all out power, or passively by relying more on defensive tools like Calm Mind and Roost. Normal/Flying is fine in my eyes, since that Normal typing allows Noctowl to hunt down Ghosts easily. I also swapped the ability slots for Tinted Lens and Keen Eye, so that Noctowl can have by far its best ability available by default. Ledian - Ledian is a Pokemon that wants to be a physical attacker so badly, so I dropped its Special Attack down to 35 (-20), while pumping its Attack up to 95 (+60). I also made to faster, up to 105 (+20). These stat buffs may be a bit excessive, but Ledyba evolves later than most early-route bugs (18), so it deserves a bit more power than something like Beedrill at Level 10. I kept Swarm, but swapped Early Bird and Iron Fist's slots so that Ledian can punch stuff by default. It doesn't get any physical Bug-type moves besides U-turn and Bug Bite, so I figured Lunge would probably be the best option with an expanded movepool, as well as a buffed up Wing Attack for Flying-type STAB. Lanturn - I have no issues with Lanturn's movepool. Water/Electric STAB is fantastic, and Ice Beam rounds out its coverage perfectly. I'm fine with it have such a high HP stat, though it could absolutely use a bit more in its defenses to justify that HP, as well as more attack power on such an excellent offensive type combo. So, I gave it 73 Defense (+15), 106 Special Attack (+30), and 86 Special Defense (+10). It's on the excessive side, sure, but I've screwed with the stats on just about everything, so everything is power crept. I think a more reasonable stat spread would be 63 Defense (+5). 96 Special Attack (+20), while still keeping the 86 Special Defense (+10). Sunflora - I actually don't really think that Sunflora should be Grass/Fire. Sure, it's connected to the sun, but there's no Fire-type connection beyond that, though it could still benefit with Fire-type-like attributes, such as access to Solar Power-boosted Weather Ball. Stat wise, there's no reason why Sunflora should be as slow as it is, so I have it 80 Speed (+50), and in my power crept indulgence, buffed its HP to 85 (+10), its Special Attack to 115 (+10), and its Special Defense to 95 (+10). It can stand on its own with or without Sun with these buffs, basically being a budget mono-Grass Roserade. Magcargo - Fire/Rock is always gonna be terrible defensively, especially on such a slow mon. I went with Solid Rock over Magma Armor as the ability to help reduce both of its quad weaknesses, though I think your idea for the Corona ability is nice. As for stats, it evolves really late, so we can get away with it having some pretty big buffs. I gave it 90 HP (+30), 110 Special Attack (+20), and 100 Special Defense (+20), as well as giving it access to Power Gem. It's still gonna lose to Water and Ground-types no matter what, but you have five other team slots for that. Magcargo can be the ultimate Ice, Bug, and even Fire-type slayer this way though.

[@calheaven]

These would be great improvements! The only one of these I've ever used on a playthrough is Lanturn and that's only because it's HP does actually prevent it from being knocked out easily, but I would definitely prefer different stats on it. I always forget how cool Ledian looks, it's awesome, I just wish it wasn't so bad in battle!

[@tylertichoc7330]

Thankfully at the very least, Dunsparce finally got an evolution. And there have actually been quite a few Pokémon from the Johto Region and Gen 2 who have finally gotten much needed evolutions. But it definitely would be cool for some of them to just get better stats, better typings, and better moves. They could just do the whole Sneasle and Sneasler treatment with a regional variant of some form.

[@christopherflores5405]

If possible, i'd give slugma and magcargo a new signature ability. Obsidian : reduces dmg from water type moves by 75%. Once hit by a water type move, the pokemon becomes a mono rock type. Then, the stat distribution also changes. Similar to darmanitan's zen form. Once in obsidian form, magcargo's speed becomes non-existent and is guaranteed to move last but its defense and special defense is doubled. While it s special atk is lowered to 50 while its phys atk is increased to maybe 100.

[@karatgaming5792]

I first played Gold back in 2004 when I was 12, and I hated how weak Bayleef was. However, much later in my late 20s, I learned how to use Meganium properly and love it. Meganium definitely needs more love, and the way you buffed it really makes it far more enjoyable!

[@pabloaguirre6001]

It's weird seeing lanturn and noctowl being classified as some of the worst Pokémon. In Pokémon GO PvP, the noctowl / lanturn core is terrorizing the meta

[@Blastronaute]

I thought of a custom ability for magcargo that wouldn’t make it much better on its own but make it much more useful. The ability would be called lava body and it would melt away all entry hazards upon switch in. It’s honestly better if magcargo stays not very good if it had that ability because the ability would be really good in competitive. Giving it the water immunity definitely works better for regular play though

[@jgr7487]

The bigger fix to Magcargo in Gen 2 was putting Slugma in Union Cave, making it an early-game pkmn. Lowering Slugma's evo Lv to 28 would also help Magcargo quite a lot.

[@SinisterPixel]

I think if I were to change Meganium today, assuming I wasn't going to rebalance it to work better in Gen 2, but just to make it better over all, I'd argue it's a strong candidate for Mega Evolution. It's moveset has always indicated it's designed to be used with the sunlight, so I'd personally give it a Mega Evolution with a secondary fire typing, give it access to Drought, and maybe one or two staple fire moves such as Flamethrower or Fire Blast so it can take advantage of it's new STAB. You could _maybe_ give it access to Growth too, but that may be overkill. It's defensively already strong so a small buff to it's defense and special defense, along with a moderate special attack boost to get it over the 100 threshold would really reinforce it's strengths. Then you have an Pokemon that only takes 2x damage from 3 types, one of which it has STAB Super Effective to counter with, 3 half resistences, and one quad resistence, with access to sun powered up Solar Beam, Synthesis, and Flamethrower/Fire Blast. You've turned one of the most underwhelming starters in the franchise into a specially offensive tank

[@mythicbuilds2951]

There is one good way of fixing Magcargo in gen 2, and that's giving it an evolution, which, in addition to a hefty stat boost, would be a good opportunity to change its typing, particularly to FIRE/ STEEL. This does make sense since Magcargo is based on volcano snails, also known as scaly-foot snails. "The scaly-foot snail is the only organism known to incorporate metals (in the form of iron sulphides) into its ‘skeleton’, both into itsshell, and into the hundreds of external scales which give it its name." This would mean he's still prone to getting one-shot by EQ but atleast he's no longer guaranteed to die to a single water move. Plus he gains a ton of other resistances that rock lacks.

[@TwoHeadedMeerkat]

Funnily enough, Lanturn's Pokedex entries actually imply it to be one of _the_ strongest Pokemon in existence, besides Arceus and LEAGUES above Ultra Necrozma. While I can't link the discussions regarding Lanturn's power due to KZbin automatically deleting comments with links, what it basically boils down to is that Lanturn's light can be seen from the bottom of the ocean, which should be physically impossible due to water's exponentially-increasing ability to dampen and dim lights. To maintain a consistent light from such depth as say, the Mariana Trench, Lanturn has to be _constantly_ emitting 1 x 10^35 times the amount of energy in the entire observable universe each _second._ It has no right to only have 76 base Special Attack

[@Sunswipes]

I'm glad the algorithm led me to this channel just today. Great video. Gonna have to watch the fixing gen 3 mons vid after this one. Also by this point I'm surprised all gen 2 mons have not had buffs/evos yet, many are classified as fully evolved yet the stats say otherwise, like granbull. Yes it get the fairy typing meaning a fairy that isn't a special attacker however, 45 speed (it may have quick feet as an ability but in most cases you'd choose intimidate). The 45 speed + 120 attack actually makes it worse than rampardos who has a theorem named after him so what does that tell ya? Also in gen 2 granbull couldn't get crunch outside of an egg move from houndoom/girafarig.

[@PokemonWoop]

Yeah, seems like Gen 2 Pokemon were intentionally made bad

[@Sunswipes]

@@PokemonWoop could it have been down to the development of the games being rough, i don't want to entirely blame that but it also cannot be ignored