Hidden Mechanics of the Mirror of Loss Explained

Correction:
2:22 The Prayer bonus is NOT used up after just one memory. You'll get it for any memories you offer after succeeding at the skill check.

[@SlimXG]

Correction: The Prayer bonus is NOT used up after just one memory offered. You still only have the 60% chance per memory, but at least you can keep trying. If you're targeting the +1 CHA buff, it's trickier, since you have to decide between using up memories on that before the prayer or potentially locking yourself out of it by succeeding at the +2 buff.

[@PatchMeUp7]

Makes me feel sooo much better about that stupid mirror just knowing the odds. Thanks for this!

[@SlimXG]

Well thanks for requesting it, since it ended up being interesting to dig into hahah

[@bingonight1504]

ooooh so thats why it NEVER worked unless I succeeded the prayer check first, and sometimes didnt work even after that. Finally someone put it all together

[@Corillo92]

You're the only youtuber that still can teach me A LOT about bg3 even after 1400 h

[@SlimXG]

Thanks, though I feel stupid for making the mistake about the prayer bonus being used up after one memory ._. That's what I get for rushing this one out.

[@SlimXG]

I wish I'd thought to include this in the Parent Points video, but I got a request for it, so here it is. Gale video is still on the way.

[@rosestanyer6709]

Love your channel, favorite BG3 content out there!

[@JakeSPuwuowo69]

You are appreciated. I'm going to now pretend Minthara has a vast amount of hidden content away, and that burning the grove has some secret reward that makes it worth losing valuable NPCs. I'm also going to pretend that Karlach's Origin playthrough doesn't get ruined by going evil and assaulting the grove. ... One can dream of hidden things even if they aren't there. -- But seriously shtposts aside, your content is appreciated.

[@ProxyGateTactician]

Thanks for finding stuff like this SlimX. Really cool to see how things work behind the scenes after reading the countless internet opinions on stuff like this lol

[@b.lightyear3455]

Deep dives like this are something I've been hoping to see ever since I started playing. Thanks for sharing this!

[@apollocj1658]

this is very interesting, I really like the demonstration of how changing the code actually makes the scene work as it (might be) intended

[@SlimXG]

Though you can't actually change the code by changing a word in the text file, but it looked better for the video than the actual method hahah

[@JakeSPuwuowo69]

@@SlimXG @apollocj1658 I feel like it was an intended choice made last minute. I could be entirely 100% wrong and maybe it's a bug, but I feel like they decided that it'd be a bit too complicated to go through with SHeart losing say a relationship memory, and then having dialogue paths for all the companions and how they'd respond to her not knowing of her love for them or whatnot. With Act 3 being as expansive as it is, and with them already deciding to cut out Upper City (besides the final fight part where you go through it briefly), I could see them doing this.

[@damaniac8]

Thank you very much for explaining this mechanic. I was recently searching for the best strategy to get all the possible buffs but all the guides were not as detailed as your video. God bless u for making this kind of videos

[@pikajulie_art]

Video suggestion! Maybe try finding out if Lae'zel will choose to end Voss during their confrontation in Act 1, Mountain Pass? There's this conversation option where Tav can say along the lines of "What will you choose Lae'zel" and then she will willingly stand with Voss and against Vlaakith. I'm curious to see if finding all three gith slates, going through the Zaithisk first BEFORE confronting the inquisitor, and having high enough approval will contribute to that. Similar to Shadowheart's Nightsong points!

[@SlimXG]

I'm planning to gather up some scenes like this of the other four origin companions into a video after I finish the Gale one I'm working on now. Many of the other decisions like this are simpler than they appear.

[@pikajulie_art]

@@SlimXG I think I'm familiar with what the Gale one is: It's the one in the Act 3 Netherbrain where he has agency to decide whether to sacrifice himself or to push through with the crown. I also experimented and was surprised that I had two playthroughs with him deciding to pursue the crown, and the other willing to sacrifice himself. So excited to see the scripts behind this! Thank you for your hard work!

[@kerl_cats]

I love these sorts of videos! Thanks for the deep dives and explanations!

[@treehugger0241]

I kid you not, my first time using this mirror, my three party members got the +1 Cha buff on their first try, followed by the +2 buff; all of them passed the prayer check before surrendering anything. My PC wiffed the first attempt, but got the same outcome on the second and third tries, respectively. I just figured it was hard-coded to give you the +1 boost before it could roll the +2, but nope, I was just particularly lucky.

[@zizh8794]

your level of quality and detail in bg3 vids are unmatched by any other youtuber mate.

[@kingofgrim4761]

That makes a lot of sense and is very frustrating to know. I thought I heard you were supposed to do the +1 prayer second 😅 at least my wizard got to use the +2 int buff by offering forbidden knowledge

[@mr_jyggalag]

I love those deepdives of yours! I think it's intentional that Shadowheart can't offer anything to the Mirror if she doesn't kill both Nighsong and her parents. Think about it: Shar is so pissed at that Selûnite brat that she wouldn't take anything from her. Or you could interpret that as if Shar thinks, that there is nothing of value left to take. And, judging that Shadowheart can't offer anything if she didn't kill both Nighsong and her parents, what about the situation if she killed Nighsong but saved her parents? Does she have options to offer to mirror specific memories (parents points, romance, etc.)? Or what about the situation where she saved Nighsong but turned her parents into the Moonmotes?

[@SlimXG]

I can't speak on what the developers intended for the story, but they put the content into the files, just left it oddly impossible to access. If it was intentional, it must have been a late decision where someone went in and changed the code in a simple way to block it.

[@ultimatequestions._]

God tier BG3 content!

[@tatemarlowe8834]

Good video!

[@theBigBeepo]

God Bless 🙏

[@Dorumin]

Slimmy on that type of flag diving again, what a treat

[@Stolenfyre]

I'm pretty sure the religion prayer bonus applies for multiple memory checks. I just took my party through, and got a buff on everyone by spamming every available memory. It sometimes took multiple memories to get. But you have the code in, so I'm confused.

[@kiilgore806]

Yeah, I remember from a prior playthrough, being able to do multiple memories if the first one didnt' work out.

[@SlimXG]

Yep, you're right. When I tested it, I got the other two memories in a row, and the code seemed to corroborate it. But looking into the save file directly, the 0 is there for MirrorBonus, but so is the 3. So that means you gotta be super unlucky to not get the buff, eventually. Welp, embarrassing mistake, on my part. Thanks for pointing it out.

[@ryudragon7]

In my current playthrough, I respec'd Shadowheart as a level 2 tempest cleric, and (currently) 6 levels of divination wizard. She has the necromancy of thays forbidden knowledge, and according to your other deep dives. Is currently on the path to sparing the Nightsong and her Parents. I hope I can give up the forbidden knowledge to get a stat boost for her.

[@SlimXG]

Offering Forbidden Knowledge is done from the same list as the memories, and Shadowheart never sees that list as the game is, now.

[@ryudragon7]

@@SlimXG Well damn. That is disHEARTening.

[@SlimXG]

@@ryudragon7 Sorry for casting a Shadow on your day

[@RakuraiZero]

I love this. In upcoming videos, could you please explain: Where did my trolls go? How do I keep my owlbear egg uneaten? Why is Wyll?

[@RakuraiZero]

To clarify: Sometimes the trolls don’t respond to the horn, is it purely based on pathing to your location or are there some kind of terrain or other region flags that prevent summoning? The only way I’ve found to keep the damn egg out of my camp supplies list is to stick it in a chest on the ground in camp. This and other performance issues with inventory make me suspect that Dribbles the Coder wrote the world’s items as a flat array with tags added for character inventory, camp chest, etc that is searched for every operation. Is this something that can be answered at the exposed scripting level? Why is Wyll?

[@SlimXG]

@@RakuraiZero Ogres, it seems to be a mix of both. There are some regions they can't reach, and they appear to need some sort of path to you to spawn. I might be able to dig up a list of valid regions, though any pathing issues are outside of the data I have access to. Yeah, owlbear egg just counts as camp supplies, so as far as I know, there's not much you can do other than manually select your supplies each time you Long Rest or drop the egg off somewhere until you need it. Wyll's a fairly simple man who likes simple things. I'm going to cover some of his choices in a future video, along with some of the other companions.

[@cadamon1]

Not trying to rush you or anything, but can you estimate when you do the tips for act 3? I’m so looking forward to see you cheese these bosses.

[@SlimXG]

I really can't say. I'd already started working on it when the Nightsong Points video blew up, and since I had some other videos of that sort already on my mind, I decide to detour to those, for a bit. I still plan to make an Act 3 Honour Mode video at some point, but I'll be honest that the lukewarm reception of the Act 2 video that I put a lot of work into took away some of my motivation. At the least, the Act 3 video will be focused on just the big bosses, without all the extra content I covered in Act 2. I certainly appreciate your interest in seeing it, though. Thank you.

[@nataliebaker8833]

Love your videos! The act 2 one is awesome, and I’m going to be utilizing a bunch of those tips on my duo run.

[@Count_Gustav]

In my playthrough, Mirror of loss permabuff gone if ur character respec.

[@robc6532]

Thank you so much for this amazing breakdown of the code. One quick question: the community wiki claims that offering up Forbidden Knowledge will guarantee the +2 bonus. Is that just false info?

[@SlimXG]

Thank you, and yes, that's correct. I mentioned that at 2:50 in the video.

[@robc6532]

@@SlimXG Ah whoops, I missed that part. Thank you

[@robc6532]

@@SlimXG I suppose I have an actual question then. The wiki also says that you don't need to roll to recognize the mirror if you already did so for the broken mirror in the Gauntlet of Shar. Is that true as well?

[@SlimXG]

@@robc6532 I can find no evidence of that being true from a quick check through the files. The flag checked by the mirror in the House of Grief is different from the one set when succeeding at the passive Arcana check in the Gauntlet of Shar. But it'd take a bit of time to actually test it in-game.

[@robc6532]

@@SlimXG Gotcha. Thanks for going to the trouble of checking anyway!

[@congruentcrib]

Do other characters have these insane operations behind them? I am amazed that shadowheart is so complex

[@SlimXG]

Shadowheart definitely appears to be the most complex when it comes to the companions. Gale has a somewhat elaborate system to determine his attitude about the crown, and I'm in the middle of working on a video about that. From the skimming that I've done of the other four companions, none of them have anything on the level of Shadowheart. Will dig into them more in the future.

[@JakeSPuwuowo69]

@@SlimXG I'm guessing you mean 4 Origins.... Which while it makes sense they have the most about them, it still makes me a little sad that there isn't more to the non-Origins. Jaheira and Minsc being from previous games, I dont mind as much, but Halsin and Minthara I wish had more going on after recruitment.

[@Louves192]

Only Shadowheart and Gale really have hidden points systems. For Gale it's about pushing him towards godhood or forgiveness and another one for blowing himself up or wanting to live. Astarion has two flags that could have been used for alternative outcomes ("knows ritual purpose" and "wants ritual complete") but they seem to solely rely on his knowledge about the ritual and cannot be influenced by dialogue (like if he knows the purpose, the "wants ritual complete" flag is always set and you cannot talk him out of it). Karlach, Wyll and Lae'zel have nothing in that regard to my knowledge.

[@SlimXG]

@@JakeSPuwuowo69 Oh, yeah, the non-origin companions are even simpler. Minsc is very . . simple

[@b.lightyear3455]

@@SlimXGEven if they are simpler, I would still be very interested in hearing about the systems for the other companions.

[@InuzutoraArlas]

This is GOLD, no, Platinum astonishing and I'm not sure what option (set/clear the flag) does make more sense thematically and narrativelly but I wish it was "set" as otherwise I'm a bit forced to make Shadowheart str based build with +2 poition as it's the only way she'll get any permanent ASI to even out with others

[@SlimXG]

The thing is, that code actually checks if the flag is clear, and if so, clears it. Which doesn't make any sense. So it was either a mistake or a dev went in and just flipped it to that as a simple way to block out this content, or for some other reason. Unfortunately, I can't read the minds of the developers, only the files that we have.

[@InuzutoraArlas]

@@SlimXG well as a programmer myself I actually can't come up with any reason why you even need any check anyway =) if A == X and B != Y then B = Y is almost the same as if A == X then B = Y. It could be some very deep dive into optimization, but set an global flag vs checking the db is kinda ... idk, mb it makes actually sense, idk, or mb they had it implemented but then writers decided to back up and programmer dirtly fixed that (but then why not just erase it anyway...) In other words I find this code just junky lol

[@lunatik4291]

I don't really have much to comment but explaining mechanics directly via code or sharing other types of really obscure knowledge is great content, so uh, have some motivation I guess...

[@shakeypudding6563]

Stupid mirror. I just ignored it.