Flaps Are Making You Lose Fights, Here Is How To Fix That! - War Thunder Guides 5.0

[@OddBawZ]

26 minutes of listening to a dutchman talk about flaps and I didn't need to Tier 3 sub to OF???? Sign me up.

[@DEFYN]

Tier 3 is to see my flaps 😳

[@GeneralLee2000]

​@@DEFYNwhat's tier 4 then?

[@DEFYN]

@@GeneralLee2000 one way to find out

[@GeneralLee2000]

@@DEFYN Oh my goodness, EXPOSED gear legs mayhaps? 🤤

[@batlax18]

What reply thread did I just stumble upon

[@pandoranbias1622]

The Fw-190s have taught me that flaps are NOT for consistent turning speed, they are for getting a quick boost to your maneuverability and helping to dump airspeed.

[@kunaukedi4850]

when im flying the am-1 when i deploy combat flaps i can magically turn inside fw 190s and bf109s even ta 152s if theyre slow enough. Sadly if someone knows what theyre doing im automatically ded

[@1rb1s_]

All 190's rate better on takeoffs

[@ace_maker3492]

The p47m taught me just drop the landing flaps and the 109s panic, until they don’t then your fucked

[@williewilson2250]

@@ace_maker3492 if a 109 isn't already spiral climbing you (likely a k too if you're in the m) they're dead lmao

[@1rb1s_]

@@williewilson2250 109 doesn't even really need to go into stalls early to kill any 47 model. If anything, stall is one of the few areas where 47's are reasonably close (along with having better flaps and better radius at higher speeds). If 109 just holds lag, keeps distance and doesn't let p47 attack in the first few turns it still beats any contemporary p47 because the rate difference is just too great

[@pyencdocde5716]

Thanks for the spotlight at 2:57 I was really nervous when I recorded that bit

[@OddBawZ]

LMAO

[@myqueen4560]

-Weird defyn doesnt exist, he can not hurt you! Also Defyn lol

[@Sky_EggYT]

@@OddBawZhello odd

[@norske_ow3440]

“No one gives a shit” I actually paused the video and studied it 😂

[@GeneralLee2000]

Defyn takes tremendous pride in the unparalleled ability to expertly manipulate plane flaps. The precision, folks, it's unbelievable. Defyn's control and strategic deployment of flaps showcase a profound understanding of aerodynamics, allowing for seamless navigation through the skies. Whether optimizing performance mid-flight or executing flawless takeoffs and landings, Defyn's mastery of flaps reflects a dedication to the art of flying that is truly unmatched. Big flap skills, huge even.

[@batlax18]

Gaaw damn just say you’re in love

[@thefolder69]

why is this written like a Trump speech lol

[@GeneralLee2000]

@@thefolder69 Defyn will make War Thunder Great Again. He shall overthrow Anton and bring balance to the matchmaker.

[@asianchopsticks5048]

Bro you’re the gawk gawk 5000

[@moose8128]

THE BEST

[@johanneskirestos5316]

2:57 "umm actually 🤓☝" impression caught me lacking LMAO

[@Hazey652]

1 circle this 2 circle that, brother please draw a circle around who asked.

[@dbzfanexwarbrady]

😆

[@kingghidorah8106]

obligatory "I two circled your mom last night"

[@MilkShakE621-h4c]

💀

[@KekusMagnus]

enough of this cringe jet-era terminology, there is only turnfighting my mans

[@oFyree]

How did cudi comment two days ago on an hour old video

[@Asesna]

3:11 - aerospace engineer at uni, most of what we do is theoretical bullshit as you say. Defyn just thanos snapped an entire industry into the ether

[@jackeyboy6538]

3:08 *

[@willem6360]

That's why he lives in The Netherlands ;)

[@davidponder1654]

Aren’t Americans like notorious for making planes that absolutely shouldn’t be able to fly. I remember hearing of some military fighters that had engines so powerful the plane would gradually spin if youre not countering it, others shouldnt have even gotten enough lift to fly. But somehow humans are so persistent and stupid we keep trying to make impossible shit possible.

[@kungusmacbungus1021]

Flap keybinds can be simplified to just lower flaps and toggle flaps, lower them to whatever level you want and toggling flaps will revert to the zero position

[@damianp5781]

That's what I use too!

[@Past10Performance]

Oh that's good I think I will change mine

[@Blitzcreeper239]

Yeah my setup is G for lower flaps and Alt-G for landing gear since you don't use gears as much as you do flaps. F is still toggle flaps for me.

[@wahtx7717]

@@Blitzcreeper239 I use t for lowering and f for toggle. Alt G sounds like a good idea so i might try that.

[@Blitzcreeper239]

@@wahtx7717 I'm always binding keys around Alt based on how actively or infrequently a keybind is used, for example my MEC keys all are bound to Alt as well.

[@HoosierTrey]

I always love these kinds of videos cause I’ll be like “oh, he’ll probably do this” and then he’ll be like “only a dumbass would do this here”

[@enterchannelname8981]

So it seems like a good rule of thumb is this: activate flaps when you want to go slower but turn faster. I used to think they were pretty much just free turn boosts, so thanks!

[@paktahn]

yes but like he said it is dependent on what aircraft you are in and you also need to take into account how long it takes for the flaps deploy some aircraft deploy much quicker than others the bf 109 f4 for example has flaps that are on the slow side to deploy so you almost have to be clairvoyant to get the timing right so that they are fully deployed when you need them and they are also slow retracting it just takes doing it a lot to develop the muscle memory to where you dont even think about it because it is second nature like driving a car at first people tend to overthink and make mistakes but after a lot of hours of experience they stop thinking about what they are doing and go by feel as they car becomes a physical extension of them

[@comlain2513]

@@paktahn you forgot these: .........

[@J7Handle]

Once in sim battles I was flying a J7W1 at low alt and got jumped by a P-51D. Didn’t have a choice but to dogfight. Thought I would lose because the J7W can’t turn in any kind of fight and doesn’t have enough power at low alt, but I somehow gained on the P-51 in a nose-to-tail fight as I call them (rate fight or 2-circle are the other names), and won. Kind of. Had only 1 round per gun left, missed the shot, and had to make a break for it. But I had my sights on him. Later saw the replay, and sure enough, guy had his landing flaps out.

[@hubril7921]

Sim players thinking they will win fights because they have more buttons bound on their HOTAS: "impossible"

[@notsoracistraspberry4168]

By watching you and learning how to fly props I was able to have a pretty dirty dogfight in a ME410 against a single engine. Throttle management and reading his flying was great. When he went to stall with flaps I read my energy and sat behind him and stalled after him a few times to get the bag in the end.

[@hunlepto2239]

Ngl, the makeshift elevator trick is mindblowing. I had plenty of times when I could fly my plane mostly straight, but the lack of elevator control made me fall to the ground, if only I knew this earlier, it would have saved me on so many matches. Thanks for the tip.

[@ClockPerfection]

This post was verified by real rate fighters😤🤓🙏

[@sprotofka1317]

for some planes it also feels like the center of lift moves when using flaps at certain speeds. when you get above 900kph in the super etendard and deploy combat flaps you will actually start while geting a bigger radius and a lower turnrate, but without losing speed , because the elevator can't deflect enough to offset the changed center off lift at those high speeds. This also applies to the last "trick" using flaps to pitch up without tailcontrol, some planes start to pitch down more in that scenario, both etendards do that aswell as some other jets.

[@norske_ow3440]

Jets are weird, depending on wing type the flaps can actually be so far behind the CG that they do pitch the nose down. The F4D for example: it’s flaps are so far back that they actually (physically) move up instead of down

[@vassiliosnicolaides3573]

In the supersonic region the centre of pressure moves back from 0.25 of the chord length to 0.5, so this is probably what you are experiencing.

[@UK_IN_US]

Etendard flaps are the secret ingredient to wiping 9.0 lobbies

[@norske_ow3440]

@@vassiliosnicolaides3573 war thunder models that!?

[@vassiliosnicolaides3573]

@@norske_ow3440 war thunder models the spitfire engine having issues with fuel at negative g forces, I would be very surprised if it doesn't model the centre of pressure transition

[@williewilson2250]

I'm beginning to feel like a flap god, flap god

[@rexnemorensis8154]

haha

[@tedharvey9836]

Using flaps wrong: ❌ Completely forgetting flaps exist every time I get in a fight: ✅

[@_Shogun_]

i know they exist just dont use them lol

[@LunarBloodRose27]

Yep that's me lmao

[@kingghidorah8106]

I'm so thankful you made a guide on this, even though I've stopped playing since this September I really appreciate knowing Why am I bleeding so much energy during certain moments of my friendly 1v1s

[@perferre1]

This will change absolutely nothing for you bud

[@cookiecracker2]

does this mean what I think it means?

[@kingghidorah8106]

@@perferre1 sync dawgs still thinking i hadn't improved a dime in 5 years 💀 cut the trolling off, take a break i guess

[@kingghidorah8106]

@@cookiecracker2 what do you think it means?

[@takyon10]

​@@kingghidorah8106he's right you know

[@norske_ow3440]

I’ve been a studying flaps for years, didn’t think I’d get a chance to study Defyn’s flaps

[@Rorywizz]

Using the Harrier GR.7 with landing flaps above 200mph and thrust vectoring below gives you the turning ability of a spitfire

[@Masterhitman935]

How those that work with the engine, I alway destroy my engine flying the harriers.

[@wooptydo6241]

@@Masterhitman935engine will overheat at 100% unless you are low and fast. they have enough thrust to cruise around at 90% so if you set your throttle to that after takeoff you can prolong the life of your engine.

[@jimliras313]

Hey Glitch, how much does the French Yak-3 cost? Cheers.

[@Tuhrue]

Blackboard Picasso is back

[@julianjones1130]

Using flaps to control with no elevator is massive, didn't even think about it but it makes sense

[@paktahn]

you got to watch with some aircraft they are too strong and you either have to toggle them non stop to keep from pitching up and stalling or have to keep banking left and right /constant roll and that just to keep flying landing can be a nightmare and sometimes is just not possible without a lot of trial and error with said aircraft

[@wavebuilder14udc75]

@@paktahn Yeah the purpose of the elevator is to create downforce to counteract the lift generated by the wing, so when you add flaps it will overpower the elevator and you will pitch up and need to add forward pressure. I do not recommend supplementing the elevator with the flaps as the elevator can already produce the necessary back pressure to keep the nose high and it won’t kill your energy as much as flaps will. Edit: He was talking about using them with no tail control left. So what i said doesn’t apply.

[@eduardoboehringer]

flaps are killing your (speed) gains

[@eb3yr]

Flaps are ALWAYS going to be detrimental in terms of lift to drag. If they weren't, designers would just make the airfoil shaped as if they were deployed at all times and trim it a bit differently. Instead of this nice tapered shape on the trailing edge of the wing you get this big mess with a ton of turbulence behind it, and it's immediately obvious why it kills your speed. Lift increases so induced drag increases, and the profile becomes pretty shit so profile drag increases too.

[@timbizi3519]

This is exactly the kind of video I need. I really enjoy learning these things that help me. And it's really nice to see myself improving

[@heinzofficial4455]

Ive waited for this video for so long. Thanks for delivering Defyn!

[@Narty_Naz]

>"Let's solve that issue real quick" >proceeds with 25 minutes video

[@flak8842]

Finally afer a long wait thank you defyn

[@maximilianmustermann1278]

Hornet mk3 not trying to overheat in a ratefight at 280kph:🥵 also if you ever need an airbrake on this thing just open the radiators fully.

[@glovely4119]

Commenting to boost you in the algorithm, godspeed DEFYN.

[@CottoneyeJoe-t4z]

Great work covering flaps! I discovered on my own that flaps help when tail control is severed and I'm glad to see a more in depth video on them in general keep it up

[@dutch24]

God forbid, I watched this for entertainment, but it was a well structured video and therefore it deserves high praise. Great job, Defyn!

[@AlwaysSullied]

P-38 Flaps are do or die. You lose those puppies and its game over. Absolutely make the plane capable of solo'ing almost any prop plane in the game.

[@Earlibims]

I discovered you channel through Oddbawz cas video, and i find your style of content very enjoyable, while also learning a lot about how do fly my planes. Thank you for making these videos.:)

[@tyrohere7234]

Thank you for your videos. Not just these guides, but generally. I learned more from them than from many years of me playing WT on my own. Great job!

[@scenario7f12]

Maybe now i wont lose so many dogfights, defyns a 🐐 for helping people

[@damianp5781]

How much does the French Yak-3 cost, Glitch?

[@envygd4902]

1600 GE I believe I highly recommend it it's one of my favorite aircraft

[@PawlysBartys]

wish watching these videos prevented me from getting absolutely dumpstered in my corsairs

[@QeteshThePony]

Hey Defyn, how does the I-225 fit into this? Great flaps and engine power, great energy, would you consider this an exception as well? 21:15

[@NomadianVita]

Another useful tutorial to make me less of a noob pilot in wt, cheers!

[@TheIsemgrim]

m8 after watching a few of your videos my stats have gone up by an insane amount. i always knew i was a noob, even with 1600 hours in the game and at least 1000 od those hours have been failing at air rb. i went from 1 kill every 5 battles to 1 every battle and there is still so much room for improvement, i was about to give up after i reached the mig 23 a few weeks ago.. now i bought the mig 29g. thanks to your tips!! thanks bro.

[@damianp5781]

Thank you for putting this out!

[@davidponder1654]

I like this guy, no big numbers, no socrates level philosophical maybes. Just this is what works and this is vaguely how it works

[@torrs5129]

Love this type of videos when I actually learn stuff

[@DEADGAMESINC]

I'm ex-gladiator from 2014 of CIS region and this guide is great. I no longer play this nonsense game, however I'd like to make a shoutout to this guide and author that this is very valid and useful work he did. And the amount of live examples given makes it really solid. Basically, could be much more simple for regular weeb players if you'd just explain them kinetic/potential energy basics and principles of lift generation by the fixed wings and the flaps by extension. I know, WT and real physics are very separated terms from each other, however since those times it fair to say that things got improved.

[@apocsyn5889]

For me, ive learned its best to ONLY have key bindings for Toggle Flaps, and Flaps Down. I dont use Flaps Up key bindings, too many keys to press during a fight.

[@paktahn]

up can be useful in sustained dog fights when you are in something that benefits from settings beyond combat flaps rather than going from takeoff to up then back to combat i have up and down on scroll wheel i dont use toggle much i still have it bound though

[@Beulena.]

This will greatly affect my mirage 2000 gameplay

[@norske_ow3440]

Can’t wait to try the new knowledge out in my gripen

[@DrHundTF2]

I kinda learned some of this by just experimenting, figuring out the maneuvrability boost with the He 51, the speed of flap deployment with the F4U, and the varying utility of landing flaps with the Fw 190. Know your plane

[@GhrtNrd77]

Instructions unclear, blew myself up base bombing in my f4s

[@bartekrecko3727]

Been playing for 12 years now and I still learned a lot, thanks man! You might not be the most likeable CCby mainstream standards 🙃but you DO make quality content

[@Kilimanjarooo]

3:49 the formula is v = ωr. velocity = angular velocity (turnrate) multiplied by radius

[@KaguyasBeat]

Your chalkboard handwriting is extremely consistent and beautiful. Just like flaps.

[@r-torius]

Man, this was a excellent video! such a simple feature yet it can make a huge different when employed correctly. 25 minutes of high level knowledge!

[@leonardobonanno5115]

Brotha nailed the thumbnail design ❤

[@kennethknecht9179]

I been waiting for this!

[@DimaMuskind]

I've bound my flaps to the mousewheel 😂 (roll forward = down; roll backward = up) I just didn't know what to bind on it at all, so I thought this might be a cool idea and now I'm used to it.

[@TruthAndReconciliation]

I think the mouse is where you want most plane controls (outside of yaw, pitch, roll) if possible. I do the same thing, it’s convenient to not have to take fingers off your main controls

[@paktahn]

this is my exact flap binds after over 4k hours of game play i still have toggle on the f key though so i can quickly reset

[@HaReX277]

Tutorials are back hell yeah

[@VioletCoin100]

As myself i use mouse wheel for flaps for fast changing, gives you very good spot between combat and take off flaps. Also as well between zero flaps and combat in high speeds but i do this in motion since you can't set a fixated angle of flaps in game...

[@Boris_The_Turtle]

DEFYN: If you clicked on this video you probably are using flaps wrong. Me:🗿 Nuh uh

[@solarflare623]

I used to use flaps very rarely if at all. I’ll be sure to put this knowledge to good use

[@NPC-1776]

flaps boost lift at the cost of speed. for real life flying i dont use them much, only for pattern and final approach. they work as somewhat as an airbrake. one plane i fly has up to 40° of flaps and its like pulling a handbrake, even with engine power it just wants to loose all its speed.

[@DumbIShallBe]

One of the spitfires only has landing and take off flaps, sometimes when I’m going 300kmh to 400kmh while being chased. I can deploy landing flaps for a second while doing a heavy upward turn and within one to two seconds I’m looking strait down lost 50 to 100kmh but now directly behind the enemy aircraft. I don’t use this all the time as it makes me into a huge disadvantage if fighting multiple people.

[@notapplicable6274]

Until you face a pilot uses yo-yo barrel roll technique, preventing the over shoot. The best technique though is being friendly and merciful to certain squadrons that share developer permissions. Aka developer cheat codes.

[@a_stone]

Always love your guides, thanks for making this! ♥

[@roketsnail34]

ngl i knew already the makeshift elevator part. american aircraft like the P-38 are good with it ( once landed without a wing, elevators and an engine )

[@SomeOrdinaryJanitor]

it's going to sound silly saying this, but bear with me. i think a lot of skill for dogfighting better can be learned by thinking about the fight you're in in 3D rather than 2D. What I mean by this is that i feel a lot of the people that could benefit from tips like this are the same that try to just follow your moves to get/stick on you, what i call "flying in 2D". If you fly somewhat intelligently and try to predict the enemies movements, and most importantly, remember you have more than 3 Axis of movement you can take, is what i call "flying in 3D"

[@jakobtillhof1325]

Great Video. I did miss a little bit the fact, that the first half of the flaps increase lift while not increasing drag too much while the second half of the flaps increase the lift a lot while disproportionally more increasing the drag. I think this is true. Of course depends on the plane, but generally speaking.

[@blacknapalm2131]

*Her vargheena hang like sleeve of wizard. She had too much flaps*

[@meferswift]

I use flaps sparingly as my physics understatement derive that to get turning ability you need to have interaction with air which is drag.

[@s_ziel]

You mentioned here that slowing down will increase the radius, but that's false most of the time. The formula for the lift force is L=0.5*Cl*ro*A*v^2 while the formula for centrifugal force is F=m*v^2/r Obviously they have to be equal, L=F We can divide by v^2 on both sides to get 0.5*Cl*ro*A=m/r therefore r=2*m/(Cl*ro*A). So if we can keep the same coefficient of lift by pulling the same angle of attack, if the air density is the same, then the turn radius value will not change. At extreme speed values the radius can change; while slowing down from high speeds the radius usually decreases, but slowing down from already slow speeds will increase the radius. This occurs in a small speed window just before stall.

[@DEFYN]

I am talking about flap speeds and making a decision I am mentioning that choosing throttling down instead of using flaps isn't beneficial in these circumstances. I said 4x throughout this video that I am looking at mere flap examples and not overal gameplay/effectiveness which was to avoid confusion. It's about going to the same speed you settle in using a flap but getting to that point without them so you're slower without the lift benefits.

[@s_ziel]

@@DEFYN I'm talking about what you said at 9:23 - 9:35 (probably should've said that in the post). You say that simply cutting throttle will increase the turn radius, but that's mostly false, as I said above.

[@DEFYN]

If you drop throttle at 300kph you will lose too much lift and you will drift out of the loop By the time youre halfway you will be going below 230 and you're essentially stalling I shouldve explained it better

[@s_ziel]

@@DEFYN ok, now I can agree.

[@AssassinAgent]

I have bound my flaps up/down to the extra buttons on my mouse. I also have WTRTI to remind/shout at me if I have flaps deployed among WEP time left for those few planes that I fly with limited WEP Fuel KG+ fuel kg/min is also useful info when playing afterburning jets

[@TomPrickVixen]

There's an auto-select option for flaps now?

[@bendeswardt7915]

Thank you for the effort of making these video. It very helpful for me. Regards from South Africa

[@jaromirandel543]

10:50 - tihgtening the loop is not made by flaps. It is made by Out-Of-Plane maneuvers.

[@Epic_candle]

Very informative

[@babch0]

i needed this soo much

[@steveg1961]

It's always iffy, but there have been numerous occasions I've successfully landed a plain for repair at the airport using flaps to maneuver, when my elevators are shot to hell.

[@jaromirandel543]

4:40 - I wonder to know how did you measure it. Because your data should be right but only for certain altitude. With increasing altitude the values differs a lot because thinner air. In high altitudes you need much higher airspeed (true airspeed, not indicated airspeed).

[@willys_jeep1804]

Devyn, how about playing the d.371 h.s.9 ?

[@jaromirandel543]

7:17 - I this case I would use low yoyo maneuver to get myself to lead pursuit and shoot.

[@perferre1]

Well put together :)

[@OszkarFulop]

error corrected: i don't use flaps in combat at all

[@bortbart1645]

man, you make amazing videos and i noticed that after literally every single "guide" video of yours i watched made me instantly better at flying and dogfighting, thought i need to know: how do you actually "know" a plane? other from exeperience of flying in one, how do you check what a plane is exactly good at and what is it bad at,? do you look at weight and engine power, or maybe something else?

[@DEFYN]

Thanks :) Just experience sadly I am trying to find a way to make it digestible as a video but I have a hard time doing so

[@TommTooTone]

the umm actually nerd voice got me lmao. instant sub

[@snowykoyuki]

before they nerfed flaps about 10 years ago l just used takeoff flaps most of the time and it honestly worked quite well

[@rcacewhiipper]

hey glitched you're welcome for coming up with the name before you btw how much does the french yak3 cost 🤗

[@wavebuilder14udc75]

Just remember that stalling has nothing to do with speed. You can stall at any airspeed and at any pitch. The only thing that causes a stall is breaching the critical angle of attack of the aircraft.

[@DEFYN]

in RB you are limited by the instructor so this doesn't apply as much. In sim it's ofcourse a different story

[@mjw3877]

Good guide 👍

[@WaySheGoes-DP]

Dam Defyn definitely was a geometry nerd. Awesome video as always dude

[@IvanTre]

"Discover your flaps are still on" Back when I started with sim I was trying to puzzle out why the squadron 262 wouldn't go over 400 kph. I discovered I forgot to pull up the landing gear.

[@kennethknecht9179]

This was amazing

[@Jairion]

your pronounciation of "pyörremyrsky" is hilarious. i give you one like for that.

[@MCshadr217]

TL:DW: Flaps are a high risk high reward gamble. But yes this is totally accurate. I only really use flaps to get onto peoples 6, usually from a roll.

[@lordfarquad7842]

Amazing video, thank you so much

[@FRFFW]

Great video but as a german main and a P51 enjoyer i don't need flap play since all i can do is boom zoom and to be fair yak 3 don't event need to toggle flap to handle again most target which is german

[@turbov7611]

Excellent stuff! Blueballed me on the Fowler flaps :( but you did it right though lol

[@RedFox04190]

Dang. I think I’ve experienced that limited boost in maneuverability while using combat flaps but never really acknowledged that they were also such a detriment to my energy longer term. Hopefully I can put this into practice👍🏻. Mainly CAS player so cut me some slack🤣.

[@barefootbreezy6983]

Ive found using the p51h will teach you well how flaps work.

[@scorch___]

Damn and I thought they were pretty much self-explanatory o.O Combat - deploy whenever in combat Takeoff - deploy when taking off Landing - deploy when landing

[@Hoffmatic]

I have my flaps bound to my mouse wheel. And for swept wings I have it bout to [Shift]+[mouse wheel up] to turn it from auto to manual. And while in manual mode shift is %100 and left control in 0%