flat rate anxiety. how it made me a horrible person.

flat rate really changed how i thought. How i made decisions and was something I thought about constantly. it really effects apprentices and how you manage your daily life. its a system that needs to go.
Coffee and project fund: www.gofundme.c...

[@Aaron-or6ov]

Few things I like to add as a former auto tech for 25 years. One road test with customers that take 15-20 minutes that you do not get paid for. The customer doesn’t care how long it because it’s not their pay. Advisors will say hey Aaron I need you to road test with the customer so they can explain you the issue. No pay. Another thing atleast for me and my experience is if the warranty clerk doesn’t add your warranty time into the system by end of the pay period you do not get paid that pay check but the next. So now your thinking what bills can I skip this week or two and pay next week. Also here in California they now have to pay you to be at the shop. You either get hourly end of the week or if you do not make 40 or over. But since everything now is warranty and if you do not get 40 hours or more flat rate. The manager comes out asking why because the GM and owner wants to know. And they hound you. As to why and they know why. Sorry this is so long.

[@Lancemechanics]

100% I totally forgot about that. Had 1 customer steel me for a hour :(

[@aaadamt964]

If you're not turning over 40 you really need to look at some things. It's one of 2 things. The shop or you. If it's the shop, find a new shop. If it's you, pick up the pace or find a new career.

[@Aaron-or6ov]

@@aaadamt964 I could make the time but it was hard to do. These modern vehicles do not need servicing as much like back when I first started in the 90’s. Those were the money makers. Now majority of everyday work is warranty and those do not pay much at all. But thankfully I made the right decision and left.

[@azjohn520]

@aaadamt964 You’ve way oversimplified things. In a big city with tons of customers, lots of opportunities to go to other shops, maybe. It’s not so black and white in smaller cities (say, 50,000 people). I was lucky enough to be the only diesel diag guy at my dealership, so I was never hurting for work. Same couldn’t be said for everyone. Another thing you’re overgeneralizing is that a typical work week for a tech is NOT 40 hours so simply “hitting 40” isn’t what will make this right. At my dealership we were 7:30-5:30 M-F and every other Saturday 7-4. We’d get chastised if we were gone for more than an hour for lunch.

[@ProleDaddy]

My brothers, the issue is so much larger than just your shop. The issue is our relations to our production - the issue is that we live as exploited workers under capitalism. Capitalism is the exploitation of workers for profit by a business owner. That business owner is the capitalist - we are not capitalists. They capitalize ON US.

[@eddieds312]

When i was a flate tech i had no problem throwing people under under the bus, commiting fraud and just doing things sooooo unsavory but i made a decent living. Today i look back in shame.

[@HarleySLA]

The system promotes it, it almost feels like entrapment to me. You wouldn't normally, but when your position is do this to feed your family it's easier to look the other way. Not saying it's right, but it's definitely the shitty system.

[@Lancemechanics]

i have a lot of moments I'm not proud of.

[@nigerbear2642]

You sound like a pos.

[@PlaceboHyperresponder]

I was a tech for dodge for over a decade and flat rate nearly killed me. I took the first couple years on the chin but my anger got worse. I'd kick the shit out of my tool box, flip my tool cart, throw tools, and I wasn't even the angriest guy in the shop. Warranty times continued to drop while the work got more involved, service information and wiring diagrams were frequently wrong and you get paid SFA to figure it out. Certain techs would suck up to advisors and get to cherry pick good jobs while others got force fed warranty heater cores. The pandemic hit and they started dropping labour times, but raised the labour rate, and nobody got a raise, funny how that works. Managers making 6 figures would show up almost 2 hours late at times, I took a day off once and ran into one at Denny's when he was supposed to be at work. I work at an hourly shop now, suddenly I don't drink, I don't throw tools, I don't yell. Almost everyone I work with was formerly flat rate automotive and they all have the exact same story. If you're flat rate and it's not working for you, get out. It's the best decision you'll ever make.

[@shutupwork5900]

The collision repair field is the same way. I started having to hunt down answers and kicking people into gear, changing priorities and making harder and harder decisions. Basically turning into a big a-hole. Well that started affecting my home life. I almost lost my marriage because that same a-hole was coming home at the end of the day. I'm glad I got out of collision repair and I'm still married.

[@SUPERFINESOLID]

what did you do after if you dont mind me asking

[@shutupwork5900]

@SUPERFINESOLID I took a welding position, and I'm working on cars from home. I still love doing bodywork, and I have recently even started painting at home. It's hard to find something different from flat rate because it's such a different mentality to work an hourly position. I constantly feel like I'm not doing enough even though my coworkers want me to slow down. These are people that are ok with being paid to stand around. What happens is you do more work for the same pay, so I'm kinda working against myself no matter what.

[@rustedhorsepower5132]

You are speaking alot of truth. I was a technician for GM dealerships for just under 25 years,...an electronics expert, an electrical guy. That in itself should explain my woes. I didn't mind the work,...in fact sniffing out the cause was exciting to me, but...getting taken advantage because of what I could do and bringing in lower and lower paychecks...it's why I left.

[@Addictive_Ordnance]

Absolutely, I deal with it every day sadly… Someone is always looking to screw you, always…

[@Lancemechanics]

Yeah :(

[@justinhayward5027]

Flat rate anxiety is real specially when most of your tickets are warranty. And we all know how well that pays.

[@Lancemechanics]

Oh yeah. :(

[@Gixxerfool1]

Right on! I did flat rate for too long. Don’t forget to add to it, doesn’t matter how good of a tech you are, advisors will play favorites still. I got out after 20 years and took 2 guys with me. Still trying to get others to leave. Great videos.

[@AngryDoveBird]

I’m a mechanic and I never looked at any flat rate paid jobs. I hate flat rate paid jobs. I love hourly and still do to this day. My recommendation…never do flat rate paid job…it doesn’t matter how good it pays flat rate. Like Lance said, dealerships make the money and you don’t.

[@natelysy3114]

I started flate rate and it did change my mindset, I used to notice problems or potential problems and try to correct it before it got bad but now I'm like good, it'll come back with a diagnosis and I'll get paid for something at least. I also have to make videos on every car and I treat neglectful customers how they treat their car, I try to make them feel guilty if their whole front end is falling apart, but I'd never be scabby and offer discounts on my labor to help them out, some might, maybe I would if I was hourly or just paid/ treated like a professional but everything is the mechanics fault, not the tool company/ parts/ engineers or the dealer itself... What a thankless job and unappreciated, for the urgency expected.

[@Lancemechanics]

Yeah hated those videos too. It's weird what this industry does and does to us

[@gregorymalchuk272]

I have no background in auto mechanics business culture. When I heard of flat rate mechanics, I immediately realized what it reminded me of. Flat rate mechanics are modern sharecroppers who rent their tools and garage bay. One step out of chattel slavery. And shop owners are a new class of landlords who earn rents from garage bays.

[@michaelnurrenbrock7845]

its worse than that. Most shops require you to own your own tools (super expensive) unless it is a super brand specialized tool. I work at a ford dealership, the dealership buys the ford specific specialty tools, we techs have to buy everything else. But yes, we basically rent the bays from the shop. People don't realize either, that $250 per hour labor charge the shop puts on the ticket, we only get $20-$30 per hour. Too much stick, not enough carrot.

[@vivos71]

@@michaelnurrenbrock7845even better is that it’s the service advisor that gets rewarded for closing all the money at the end of the month.

[@andy_182]

@@michaelnurrenbrock7845 why even sign up for that

[@squink182]

100 percent

[@fastinradfordable]

@@michaelnurrenbrock7845for a real mechanic $20-30 should be the bare minimum I started at one shop I kid you not have never paid a mechanic over $17/hr By the time I showed them what a real hard worker can do I took Home nearly 3x. When I first started in the industry I made $5.15/hr BEFORE taxes. That’s right less than $800 a month for working FULL TIME. That was slavery but what choice does a poor guy with no tools have

[@TheOverisel]

Not that I want mechanics quitting but a mechanic can get a great paying job as a maintenance man in a factory. They also can become a fork lift mechanic. That is an hour job and pays great. Great benefits too.

[@Imnotyourdoormat]

*In this area a High School Kid with a 100-dollar lawnmower makes more per hour than a Automobile Body Mechanic or Painter with 20 years of experience and 100,000 dollars in tools and equipment.*

[@Charlie-xv3ij]

Was a tech for 15 years in the UK at a main dealer and it was horrible even without flat rate, i'm surprised anybody is willing to work in that system and hopefully enough people leave to force change over there as it's completely wrong. Like others, I started out as a positive, outgoing young apprentice and by the end I was mentally broken, so I actively encourage young people to avoid the industry as much as possible. Go into literally any other trade but this one. What I don't understand is why so many techs stick around despite being miserable and expressing how bad it is whilst creating a toxic environment. I get paid more now working in a factory with no stress, no tool payments and more time off. Continue the good work spreading the word and F*** the auto industry.

[@Phuckseeds]

Routine, habit, complacency. Those are why people don't leave, why I haven't left just yet, you have to keep an income before you can get out. But working a ten hr shift each day, didn't leave a lot of time and when you are burned out, (for me) looking for another job just deflates me.

[@TaylorZ2]

Your videos are so interesting! I've thought about becoming a dealer tech so I'm glad I can watch your vids and have an idea of what it's like BEFORE I get into that field. I'm surprised the techs are treated so badly since car sales/service is extremely, extremely profitable. I would think they'd treat the employees better.

[@Lancemechanics]

You can learn alot at a dealer. Just don't jump.on the first job offer. Talk to the techs. Check how the service advisors talk to techs. See if the parking lot is full and never go to a hyundai or kia dealer..certain brands definitely bring in certain customers.

[@TaylorZ2]

@@Lancemechanics I worked in sales a few years back and could not believe how badly they treated customers and how badly they ripped them off... I saw things that would make a strong man collapse. I knew that was not the job for me and didn't last very long.

[@aaadamt964]

Get in the dealership. Paid training, benefits, certifications. I barely got by in independent shops. "We're like family here!"... no, you're family and I'm getting table scraps.

[@03kwam65]

@@Lancemechanicsim an apprentice at kia rn man let me tell u the amount of warranty and techlines🤦🏾‍♂️ what brands would you recommend?

[@mikevee9145]

All true, another way I noticed that it rewired my brain was any job outside of work. Even something like yard work around the house, the clock in my head would start ticking and I found myself subconsciously speed running my domestic duties. I would sometimes stop and think to myself, what am I doing?

[@Lancemechanics]

thats basically my life now. everything is flat rate too!

[@Burnout366]

this was huge. flat rate made me constantly and obsessively try to perform every task and combine tasks to achieve high-speed and perfect efficiency 24/7. it was so draining. after leaving flat rate i still retain the ability to see how to make things go more efficiently but no longer compelled to do it all the time. glad to see someone else talk about this phenomenon. hope you're doing well now :)

[@lanet2436]

I hope your channel takes off!, I've been there done that, Got out and trying to figure out what's next. Took me a Year to get my brain back and thinking correctly again after 10+ years of flat rate. I wish you nothing but the best and keep making this content, the more people learn and get educated the more likely hood of things changing!

[@Lancemechanics]

Tyvm! Plan on doing a few videos for sure. Seems nobody talks about this stuff on KZbin.

[@Loyal2Ford]

Every word you mentioned hit home. I hope the powers that be are watching your videos instead of sending out ridiculous surveys asking techs why they are considering a different career path all the time.

[@Lancemechanics]

until then. I'm helping get out anybody i can!

[@darrenbrowell1713]

I started as a ford tech in 1993, quit in 2012, flat rate the whole time. don't forget the fact that if the service writer that hands work out has a favorite then that guy makes it all when others are standing. also the good paying jobs go to that guy. I got every warranty 6.0 head gasket job while customer pay which paid 10 hours more went elsewhere. we all have those stories. having my own shop the flat rate anxiety hits every job. the push to beat the clock. ford used to and still does like to penalize for not doing all test procedures even though you did the same repair a 100 times but they only pay 2 tenths for 2 hrs of testing. what a life. labor price went from 89 to 139 for diesel work at the time, it is probably more now, but our wages stayed the same. it is the same everywhere.

[@Lancemechanics]

It's still effecting me underground. Wondering if I'm working fast enough. Is this normal speed. Am I going slow. Ugh

[@jimsetterlund2267]

I owned a shop for 20 years (retired now for 10) and paid flat rate and I also hated the payment system. Too many faults to enumerate here. Years ago I read an article about the genesis of flat rate. What the article described was a pay system developed by OEM's and dealerships after WW2 for the bottom line benefit of those business elements. The demand for new cars for returning soldiers had skyrocketed and the factories were sending half complete vehicles to the dealerships to meet the demand. Apparently the dealers and manufacturers needed to control warranty repair labor costs---the answer was FLAT RATE. Somehow it worked so well for the business (not so well for techs) it never went away

[@yamhammer]

I left dealer 2007, worked for independent for several years, left there and started my own shop. It took me 10 years to stop having this anxiety. I still find myself trying to hurry up and worrying about being behind the 8 ball. Your 100% correct your brain is rewired. I tell kids all the time DON'T be a mechanic for a living.

[@Lancemechanics]

I'm still struggling with the speed thing. Always at back of my mind. Congratulations on getting out!

[@alyx1715]

Damn. Im not flat rate im an hourly heavy tech but its good to know im not the only one that struggled. They expect the world from us without ever giving us the time or resources to excel. To those newet techs dont beat yourselves up. Its one of the hardest trades out there if not the hardest. I think most of us have suffered from imposter syndrome in this trade

[@orionbattige383]

22 year tech, I left my last job due to flat rate anxiety. We were guaranteed 40hrs but worked 45+ at an independent aftermarket shop. The more I learned and more complex issues I was able to diagnose and repair the less hours I was able to produce. I was denied a raise that would have brought me to what I was making when I was hanging brakes and suspension producing 60+ hours. I was bitter and didn’t want to help anyone or touch a car that didn’t have billable hours attached, it bleeds over into your home life. I left for an hourly position doing mechanical repairs and used car preparation at a body shop. Now a year later I am going back to the same shop at the increased rate I wanted. I miss the complex diagnostics and sharing my accumulated knowledge with the younger generation.

[@Lancemechanics]

Glad your in a better place. It's a nice feeling being able to teach and show people new things.

[@dadgarage7966]

Generally, the only mechanics who have pleasant dispositions are the ones who have supportive families, supportive/well-employed spouses, supportive in-laws or any combination thereof.

[@Lancemechanics]

Need support cause can't support our selves it seems

[@JCpNK]

Great Video man. I left the dealer life years ago and never looked back. I run a small shop now for an HOA (about 200 units big and small fleet maintenance).. I'm salary now and honestly even with the headaches of running a department it's waaay better then flat rate at a dealer. Also my tools are home in my garage... Glad you found something you enjoy :)

[@Lancemechanics]

Congrats on getting out and being in a better place!

[@fastinradfordable]

That’s why independent is best. I’m hourly with bonus based on extra performance. I take care of them and make ‘em so much money they take good care of me. The only stress I have is fixing correctly.

[@SyilxMechanical]

As a contractor out west I get asked to bill hours that I haven't worked and one time I didn't because I was on safety standdown and I knew it would be a problem so I went unpaid on the road for 3 days and my boss went on to my account and billed it anyway but didn't pay me then got in huge trouble from the customer.

[@kevinrutherford5552]

when I was selling cars in the u.s . when had an hourly rate 7.25 and we clock out so we didn't owe . Best move I made getting out of that racket

[@erickmich5357]

21 years as a mechanic and never worked flat rate, I always have a decent salary.. this for sure helped me overcome a lot of what comes with working as a technician.

[@Acemobilesuit]

They will give you a hundred bucks an hour but only give you two billable hours for the week

[@SoutheastHVAC]

I looked at automotive, welding and HVAC. Talked to tradesmen in each industry. HVAC seemed like the way to go. But there are many other trades that are great as well. Automotive isn’t one of them

[@James0u812]

I’ve been at Tech for so long that I even treat sex like it’s flat rate.

[@Lancemechanics]

.1h

[@christianlorenz843]

To the young men out there: Stay far, far away from this industry. There's much better more fulfilling work out there.

[@darkside6526]

If a ticket didn't have pre approved diag I sent it back up. If diag scares away a customer then they didn't have the money to begin with. Thats harder for an apprentice to do though since they have to take everything they can get.

[@ebigz777]

The techs told me to get out of the trade when I was in school for auto. I wish I would of listened right then and there. I eventually did and became an RN in a prison making 100k a year. I didn't understand how the system worked. I was paid 10 an hour flat rate when I graduated in 2004. Lolz

[@Lancemechanics]

you dodge a big bullet! grats on getting away

[@ebigz777]

@@Lancemechanics thanks bro

[@MrManuel1329]

I'm working toward leaving the dealership life to work something that has guaranteed pay. Being flate rate has giving me so much anxiety and stress like you said. Its affecting my life outside of work!! $ome people love flat rate but I'm not in that camp also I dont enjoy fixing cars as job!

[@brandonbeebe1481]

I'm beginning to wonder if Jay Goninen is suffering from toxic positivity.

[@Lancemechanics]

Guess I'll have to check out who that is! :p

[@sdcanyoncarver2203]

Yes it's a joke!!! Its like this in auto body work. Most jobs I would get as a body man , for instance the job would be for 10 hours of work to fix a huge dent on the side of a car but it really takes you 17 hours to fix the dent. It's like this on every job I kid you not. Only way to make money at body work is to be the best and fast body man on the planet and that body man would have to be doing crack cocain to be fast enough to make money. It's a joke.

[@brianwright8874]

All depends on management and the owner of the dealership. Customers are the ones who are getting hard to deal with. Flat rate has its pros and cons. For me a dealership is way easier than an independent garage.

[@Lancemechanics]

Alot of techs find the easier part is not having to worry about calling the wrong component under wattenty and the customer or shop eat the bill. Dealerships do have there pros for sure

[@brianwright8874]

Yeah I’ve seen a lot of parts changer techs. It’s too bad.

[@webreakforsquirrel4201]

Non sympathetic is a huge understatement. Like that body just potentially took half your tickets off your hands maybe more because that person would generate a higher profit margin than a higher paid tech. One thing that really gets under my skin about flat rate is the shop can hire more people to make more money but it still produces the same amount of work. Your hours will drop and the shop output and input will remain relatively the same. Also very bizarre to be required to be somewhere not being paid for your time and tools that are a requirement to be "employed." The hypocrite boss/ shop owner wants to be able to bill the customer the most money to hit a certain margin while thinking the employee should be grateful to volunteer at an auto shop 30% of the time.

[@Lancemechanics]

Yeah didn't wanna get to brutal. Fellow flat rate techs will sniff out in a heart beat I was trying to be nice. We all know you want the guy next to you to screw up so you can get more jobs

[@onemanarmyfitness8240]

Flat rate is easy. It’s called don’t wait on the service advisor. Make the recommendations and send it. Pull another car in. If you sell the work, pull it in when you finish the car you’re on. I don’t understand how people don’t turn hours, it’s called time management. Dealerships are easy to beat, and typically they are hard to get fired from. Never wait on a service advisor! Let the waiters wait if you have to! Ask your foreman or service manager if you can do some PDI’s at the end of the day to turn extra hours. Dudes who complain about flat rate either suck or they don’t do more than they’re supposed to, get the bullshit in and out efficiently, and when you get the gravy, do it fast

[@Lancemechanics]

what dealership on this planet has a place where a flat rate tech can just go up and ask for pdi's like its a free handout???? when i was pulling a 150k a year i never got pdis. that and accessories were handed out else where in the dealership

[@onemanarmyfitness8240]

@@Lancemechanics damn 150k a year is damn good for a flat rate tech. I actually worked at a dealership where you could do grab a PDI. It was in Raleigh North Carolina and there was always a fat stack of PDI’s real thick like a text book. We had techs that only did PDI’s and they were all old as hell so they were slow. If you did PDI’s and stayed late they would actually thank you. If you stayed late you could make an extra 5-6 hours doing them they paid 2 hours a pop

[@Lancemechanics]

@@onemanarmyfitness8240 same thing, old guys got those where i was at and they did all the used car certs. retirment gravy train pretty much! We never seen them lol

[@Anthony-qj7qe]

Being a mechanic at a dealership is a crappy job... stay away, do something else.

[@Lancemechanics]

100%

[@KB-mf8ef]

20 yr tech here. What he is saying is very real. Its why i sold drugs for 15 years😂 smh

[@lisalarrr]

And you have to make sure that the boss doesn't give you low pay work also.

[@Lancemechanics]

you can try! :) worst case scenario doesn't work

[@VaporGearhead]

The more you know the less you make. As you push your skillset chasing difficult problems, your skillset increases and more and more difficult work is given to you. Until one day you realize your the shop toilet and your getting double flagged by career parts changers. You quit, and the next shop does the same thing to you. Flat rate diagnostician in an independent where your tasked with diagnosing everything ever made- that’s hell incarnate. Other option is to take a crap salary, as if that’s the solution to being penalized for your skill set. $80k a year salary when you could be pushing $150k with swapnostics as your only skill set on flat rate…

[@bryanherman1035]

It doesn't come onto the lift if you are not green-lighted to do work. Leave the diagnosing/sales for the salary/hourly guys. Leave if your situation is any different. Go somewhere that will appreciate you.

[@lateralus411]

Feel bad for you young guys these days. Making a living never used to be so heavy on the mind. To hell with all the efficiency consultants and their lean sigma six crap. They’ve ruined everything.

[@Lancemechanics]

Yeah. It isn't easy. I'm young and have had some great opportunities. The younger guys coming in will have it the roughest

[@donaldlee6760]

At 2:46 - Is possible for techs to embrace flat rate? I only ask because the dealership is telling the techs that they value speed over quality/comebacks and are no longer willing to pay for careful work. If the business owner wants this behavior from their techs than why fight the owner? As far as wanting to do what is best for the customer, isn't that the business owner's job? FYI - I do not work in the automotive industry, I just DIY work on my family cars and occasionally take my cars to a shop (usually independent) for specialized jobs that I can't handle.

[@Lancemechanics]

Cause shit rolls down hill and no matter what the tech takes the blame.

[@donaldlee6760]

@@Lancemechanics - that's sounds like it's a no-win situation for the tech, unless there is no consequence to "...taking the blame..." other than someone angrily yelling at you for several minutes and then stomping away all red-faced. If that's the only consequence then that actually sounds OK and could even be made into a weird game if you can learn to have the right attitude. Unfortunately I assume there likely is an actual negative financial consequence. I would gently suggest in that case the tech must decide if this new lower salary is worth it or should they switch employers, move to a new city with higher salaries, or even switch careers. If choosing the first option, learning to accept a lower salary, that's a recipe for resentment for personality types that set high expectations of themselves. In my experience moving to new cities tends to be incredibly scary but works out better than hoped and ultimately grateful for taking the leap of faith. I've done this when single and carefree and again later in my life with my wife and 3 young kids.

[@tysonrinker5958]

All the shops where I live have flat rate but with a garentee and the garentees are decent

[@Lancemechanics]

but are they 40hours, cause nobody in north America offers a 40h guarantee at a dealership

[@zigrdadams9428]

Working during the colder months a lot of people tend to not want to fix their cars especially around the holidays and I remember weeks where I wouldn’t make more than 35 hours a week and we would just stand around in the shop for hours hoping for anything. The only problem is at least for me is I’m good at what I do I might not be the most experienced guy but I’m fast and reliable with minimal come backs. I just don’t know what to do if I wanted a different job since I’m not sure what I’m good at that would also net me 2k a week take home. Any ideas would be appreciated since I love cars and working in them but I’d love to enjoy the hobby more and work on my car and mabey a few friends cars here and there

[@Lancemechanics]

jump into heavy equipment, no pressure, $42 on average, company vehicle, 1.5 or double time on weekends and after 8hours. even more incredible if you get into underground mining repairs, you get production bonus which is $25+ more an hour on top of regular wage.

[@ChrisJEllis]

I did flat rate for years. So glad i have a hourly job now. But on the other side of things. Now i bust my ass and all they want is more out of me. I took a 2 man job to a one man and now they want me to do a 3rd mans job.

[@pizzanoodle4540]

$31.5 hourly or $35 flat rate? Help me make it make sense

[@Lancemechanics]

36 with pay scale system. I very rarely dropped below 80h. Best pay period I had was 240.

[@plumber1874]

How did this happen to this particular trade? I started my apprenticeship in 1988 and I was paid for every minute I worked and every minute since. How is this a legal way to pay skilled labor?

[@seanmiley6294]

I've never understood the flat rate model. Isnt it the same as charging a fixed price for each job?

[@Lancemechanics]

Yeah. But you have 2 rates. The warranty rate is always 40% lower than the customer rate.

[@seanmiley6294]

Working on these poorly engineered new cars for 40% less...to hell with that. I would never wrench for a dealership.

[@Dan-oo1tm]

Get a fleet job. I love going to work every day.

[@ferndog1461]

Get out. Get your diesel certificate, get your CDL, and get onto an 18 wheeler Semi-Truck service center. Talk, ask , beg, or prostitute yourself to get in. You're going to have similar sweat , grime, & exhaustion at the end of your shift. But you're not gonna have the DRAMA of a consumer automotive shop. Your paycheck won't be a mystery every week. The frustration that is baked into planned obsolescence in modern vehicles is obvious & diabolical. How many labor hours does it take to replace a water pump in the ubiquitous GM Equinox/Acadia/Traverse? 6 hours !?!

[@Lancemechanics]

i seen a little of that industry. kicking my but for never finishing my truck and coach apprentiseship!

[@Mike-xw4gm]

Open ur own shop charge ppl $50 an hour and ull be happy and happy clients

[@uhsdef78]

How many jobs can you say it cost you money to work there I was paying to work at a dealership 2 years at a dealership put me in a 3 year financial hole I told the bosses an they didn't care while their over here buying new 80k dollar trucks an I can't even afford gas to drive to work that I'm paying to do an when I quit I said I literally cannot afford to work here anymore you shouldn't have to get bank loans to pay bills flate rate will ruin you

[@michaelroberts1959]

Union member for 31 years, so sad.

[@jamiedunn3471]

Bro get a job on wages

[@Mkiv-A80]

So true, I was lucky as I was very efficient so i booked 60-100 a week but it was very stressful, no lunches for me……😂 I usually ran 2-3 waiters during lunch in hopes of getting a good paying RO

[@Lancemechanics]

I ate at my box and made sure it was something I could do on the go and not heat up. I also never cleaned my box. It's still dirty to this day as a reminder :p

[@alexm8662]

Normally don’t comment on videos but this brings back memories when I was a flat rate tech. You are correct, it rewires your brain. I went in young, at 20 years old. Initially blasted through work and was able to handle the stress. Six years in I had a nervous breakdown that left permanent damage and to this day I still have random panic attacks and anxiety, super easy to get it triggered. On top of that permanent disk damage in my lower back. I was a tech a a dual brand dealership, warranty work for Hyundai didn’t pay very well and I got stuck doing it a lot. Unless you work for a private repair facility I would say stay away from Dealerships unless you go into service writing or selling cars.

[@rustedhorsepower5132]

Or how about that intermittent concern that they expect you to drive repeatedly, "oh? you want to get paid? For what? All you did was drive it."

[@rustedhorsepower5132]

@@JayMak1963 sounds pretty easy, lol. Trust me, i dealt with years of this b.s., they have their bases covered.

[@bigg4454]

The flat rate system is extremely outdated. It worked well when you did things like removing a starter off a car, replacing the starter "drive" IN that starter, then putting that same starter back on that car! Overhauling brake calipers and putting 'em back on the car! Resurfacing brake rotors! Overhauling alternators! Doing a REAL engine tune ups! Grabbin' a timing light! Adjusting idle and fast idle! Yeah, I'm old😉! The pay system didn't "change with the times" and I don't know what make the establishment think it was going to still work, unless they figured it was a break through in "ripping mechanics off" which it's working and I must say I'm surprised it STILL the center of controversy! It shoulda BEEN gone back in the 80s for real! They KNOW what they're doing in keeping it! They KNOW! And your OWN tools and five figure tool box! What's that now, equivalent to what a car note? Man! Manufacturer specific scan tools? Wow! Work for a place that won't support you in that regard, yet they want you to fix everything that comes through the door! When there's something in the service line of course. Every dealer I've worked for, I've lost my shirt literally. Small shops 'till I gave it up was the way for me.

[@jaydenbankes8126]

My last dealership experience I left one Chevy dealership went to another and they wanted me to go flat rate, I seen it a million times before they feed you gravy all day every day till you’ve been there 3 months then they starve you of work and customer pay work and break you not just your mental well being but also your morals and values. They told us we had a 40 hour Guarantee we had to be there eight hours a day five days a week and the guarantee was for $15 an hour which was half of what the normal flat rate hour would be

[@Lancemechanics]

yep. same story at every dealer. :(

[@azjohn520]

It’s amazing how many people don’t understand the concept of flat rate mechanics. When I start telling them about my experiences as a flat rate tech in the early 2000’s they’re simply amazed at all the “other” aspects of being flat rate, like starving a tech out whom you don’t like. When I start relating my stories to bad experiences they had at dealerships (mostly cars not being fixed right the first time and being charged too much) it became very easy for them to see why the situation happened (not excusing it, just getting to the root cause). You’re right. This shit won’t end until they put an end to flat rate. Dealer Principles: you want the best mechanics working on cars, attract those people back to the industry. Otherwise, live with your shotgunning parts replacers and repeat repairs pissing off your customer base. I’m sure most of you don’t care anyway, though.

[@HarleySLA]

Its warranty now.... Your diag time..is.. G O N E muhahaha -The OEMs probably I hated that shit. God now wonder I ended up leaving, sometimes I rooted against warranty for people to get denied goodwill, not because I disliked them- I just wanted to eat and earn a living. So much of corporate American these days is pitting us against each other

[@christopherchabluk4040]

The struggle is real... Was a learning experience that I'd never do again. 30 years in the trade coming up this fall. Left it all to start my own shop from my humble garage. Best thing I ever did. The hours are long, but it's honest work, and I have great clients. Only regret is not doing it sooner. All the best to the techs still on the floor slugging it out against the clock evert day.

[@michaelking9373]

40 years as a tech, flat rate is the worst pay plan in history,it is what is killing the automotive industry.

[@Lancemechanics]

100%

[@adampeters632]

Are all dealerships flat rate and all independent shops hourly? I would definitely like to know because I don’t want the guy working on my car stressed-out and rushing.

[@Lancemechanics]

All dealers are flat rate. Some apprentices may be hourly but doesn't last long. Independent shops are always hourly.

[@matthew1992ya]

I like flat rate I'm can average 120 hrs every 2 weeks only there 100 making 40 an hr things are changing fast in this industry there's not alot of good techs anymore if your one of them you can go wherever you want and make plenty of money

[@jacobkindsvatter4055]

Ive aways wanted to learn this trade, but glad i didnt step into it as a plumber i make a killing but i still want to one day start rebuilding classic cars, lol one day after my kids move out haha

[@Lancemechanics]

you choice wisely! :) classic cars are simple. your more then capable as a plumber to restore those :)

[@eurowerx4267]

This can happen! The only way to eliminate it is to be debt free and living simple. It takes all the pressure off you. I loved going In and taking my time with diagnosis

[@slowcobra9263]

Screw working normal mechanic jobs. Did it for acouple years at a job that treated me well but eitherway the system is not okay. How are you going to go work 40-50hrs a week and only make 20hrs of comission. This industry is some bs. We have to be smart and quick and not to mention diagnose some very complex issues and not get payed well for it. I recently started working at a fleet. U do a inspection of the vehicles. Then you repair them. No dealing with service advisor no nothing. Best part is a high hourly wage actually making real good money. And overtime. My advice is to get out of the normal independent shops and dealerships and look for a fleet in your area. Most of them pay 25-50hrly!!!! Not comission. Hourly.

[@Lancemechanics]

So many saying fleet. Hope apprentices see these. I'm sure everyone reads the comments..seems to be a strong community of mechanics on the platform:)

[@slowcobra9263]

If you are smart enough to be a technician. You are smart enough to do plenty of other things that pay way better money

[@darkmachine165]

I'm dipping my toes into mobile mechanic work and learned fast the ignorance of people knows no bounds lol. Get a request to replace a O2 sensor on a 97 F-150 5.4l customer stated piss poor gas mileage and a misfire... I already explained to this customer it's not the fuckin O2 sensors yes they probably need replaced to but no. This is after replacing the thermostat that was pissing that had a stripped bolt just sent home into the intake customer thought thermostat was heater not blowing heat issue I tried explaining no its the heater core, customer got second opinion for $120.00 at a shop told exact same thing... Ignorance

[@Lancemechanics]

Yeah customers can be stubborn. One of the things of being a mechanic is also a psychiatrist

[@Dannysoutherner]

@@Lancemechanics A lot of customers have been screwed by mechs. I know one who told me 30 years ago, he said and I quote, 'you just haven't learned how to f**k people yet' -- edited for the youtube censors. Yes, there are some less than honest techs out there and they give us all a dirt name. That is why you see stubborn customers, they expect to get screwed, specially if they have a nice car.

[@RobsNeighbor]

Love the truth you preach!

[@4by_yotaguy373]

Automotive tech for over 20 yrs here, yup it blows. First 10 years spent as flat rate line tech at dealerships, every moment in panic anxiety cause our times are monitored by computer and video down to the minute. Timer running for every job we do, and timers running for ANY down time between jobs. We are repeatedly informed we must have 100% productivity or better. But if you don't meet 98% productivity weekly, then your put into the bottom 3 tech rankings, and every month 1 tech gets fired and another tech hired in their place. Perpetual dealership turnover cycle 😧. After working at 2 dealerships like that, I said fuck that I'm not playing their games anymore and I moved to a small Independent auto shop that pays hourly. Now the work is harder, the works dirtier, the vehicles are older, and I don't have the same provided specialty tools and resources, but I get to work at my own pace and choose the jobs I want to do, without being stressed the fuck out everyday. Oh and my boss is not a dick like at the dealerships. It's an extreme trade-off, and the atmosphere is night and day diff. Bottom line at a indie shop the work is harder, and the pay is little less than dealership but consistent, and it's WAY LESS stressful.

[@chuckmiddaugh7908]

Whats the difference between a master auto technician and a large pizza? Thats right, a large pizza can feed a family of four.

[@theirishman088]

Its bullshit! It's the only commission type job where you have zero control of your pay. If nothing comes in you just sit there. Most commission people are on the phone getting work in not sitting waiting for the phone call to come to them. It should be illegal to have flat rate. It only benefits the dealers owner.

[@JessicaSee-oz9fc]

i hear ya. but damn you must have been that guy in the shop that just complained about everything.

[@theclamhammer4447]

Get ready for the newest model to become the norm. One master tech gets $70-80/hr to do nothing but diag. Then you’ll have 5-10 techs(simple part changers) that get a set $15hr with a few benefits. You think the industry is bad now? It’s getting much worse. Even as the diag guy/service advisor turned multiple shop owner I’m glad I’m out. Sold my businesses and lease the garages to the buyers now.

[@Lancemechanics]

I've thought about this scenario.

[@thorsrensen3162]

Great you have switched to mining sector.

[@frankfrosolonejr7010]

It leads to the mechanics that don’t even replace oil filters just to make a buck it only breeds poor people and craftsmanship

[@Lancemechanics]

100%

[@Dannysoutherner]

This is why I own my own place. I get the take not counting overhead. When the shop makes 200 an hour and the tech gets 30 an hour.....35 years ago I made 30 percent of shop labour which gave me 30 an hour commission. I did not get parts commission but I was not selling the parts either so that was fair. My boss always took the check rides. He retired last year. Seems that shop rates exploded and tech rates stayed where they were. I don't have any help, just me.

[@Christopherbever]

I’m currently an equipment mechanic on scissors/booms/ small dirt equipment. It’s hourly without much room to elevate so I got a second job from 2-8pm as a GSE (ground service equipment) mechanic at the airport for a small company that contracts to UPS’s freight airline. It’s paying 37hr and is so chill. Company owner still works the ground at another airport and is a former bmw dealership master tech and knows the pains so he takes good care of us. Now I’m saving to try to figure out where I can take my skills next in a year or two and if jumping to mobile heavy equipment is worth it. Thanks for the insight on the auto industry! I try to teach myself some of the newer automotive tech like Adas, canbus, multiplexing, etc because it’s not on equipment in the field yet but equipment is always about 10 years behind automotive technology advances, and I figure that might give me some leverage.

[@86offroad]

Spent 13 years at an independent private shop and 2 at a Hyundai dealer here in South Central Ontario. Was the highest producer at the hyundai store and it was a gong show. Not only was it my first time on flat rate, but the dealer also had a tiered pay rate based off of total hours and then on top of that.. they paid us different rates depending on the type of work we were doing. And of course, they determined these scales to benefit them. We got drug through the mud on the hour scale and rate of pay per job... yet they charged it all out at the same high door rate.. The independent owner, although a great person, just couldn't pay enough even when it was straight time. Stopped wrenching in 2017, now work for one of the big 3 on their tech assist line. Its ok for now.

[@jeffcompton6937]

As a fellow Canadian tech I so feel your sentiments. That's why I started the podcast at the jaded mechanic to start having these conversations so that they industry is exposed to the public so that it can then change for the better.

[@Lancemechanics]

right on! im going to post videos slowly. I want to do more positive stuff. right now so jaded from the dealership life. being a mechanic still has soo many benifits and i'd love to be pro mechanic again one day. its a passion!

[@jeffcompton6937]

@@Lancemechanics yes if it wasn't for the passion I'd have left multiple times over the last 20 years. If you ever feel like telling your story on the podcast reach out to me. Ty for a great video

[@paulsmith5611]

Except that in the last video he said he was the top tech in the city and made $150K. So this guy is in the top 1% of his field and still has anxiety? I just can't feel too sorry for him. If you made 150K, even if you made 100K, you are doing better than the vast majority of workers in either the US or Canada. As a hourly fleet tech of over 20 years I make 70k a year and have very few if anybody to help me because management has understaffed us so badly that I (and the one other qualified tech) have thousands of cars that sit and need repair. And the management wants them done now. Yes, flat rate sucks and is stressful. Yes it needs to go. But all automotive jobs are stressful and tough and most other jobs too. At some point, probably after a recession when company revenue is down, his current boss will start to tighten the screws and demand more from him. And as a hourly tech, working on cars or wind turbines, or whatever, it's easier for a company to justify layoffs. Hourly auto techs get laid off more than flat rate techs, at least in the US. I'm nervous about my job because I make less than half what he does and also because I'm nervous about the economy crashing.

[@Lancemechanics]

i wasn't always rocking it in the trade. believe it or not there was a guy in same shop doing more then me and he left with in days of me. this is more of a warning to people that this trade and the way they pay you will mess you up. people keep saying why would i leave. until you do what i had to do its just not worth it. i can easily jump back into any brand and do 80-100k would i ever try and reach the numbers i did before. absolutly not. but at same time I would have to try. why? cause ontario is the most taxed place in the world 1/2 our check goes to taxes, ei, cpp, carbon taxes. its bad here.

[@robertcampbell5485]

If your flat rate you have to base what you can afford on an annual basis. What can you average? Mechanics are notoriously bad with financial planning. You shouldn’t be struggling to pay bills, if you are your basing your income on a “best possible income” and not your average. That’s why you’re stressed out and failing at flat rate.

[@JCpNK]

did you even watch the video??? He never said anything about being broke

[@robertcampbell5485]

@@JCpNK I used the word "you" as a generalization, meaning I'm talking about anyone doing flat rate.