Flats Reacts To "Blizzard Dev Leak Explains Why Jeff Kaplan Quit"

Original Video: • Blizzard Dev Leak Expl...
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#Flats #overwatch2 #overwatch

[@Phobie_2000]

I’ve never seen a company fuck over one of their games, dev teams, AND fanbases so harshly.

[@DecayedPony]

They fucked over 5 of their games, Warcraft 3, Starcraft 2, Overwatch, Hero of the Storms, World of Warcraft, and thats just the blizzard side of Blizzard Activision. At least there is Diablo 4, if they fuck that up then I'm done with this company who's products i've consumed for 16 years.

[@fuzzycat7313]

When a company has problem with male employee's stealing breast milk you know they got no shits about trying to be good anymore.

[@Cheeseburgerman23]

Already been like this since day 1 of Dead By Daylight and BHVR, everything they messed up now the OW team has too. Funny how both games I enjoyed went downhill so fast.

[@jaredbradwell5226]

Cods dying too☠️ bo3 drama

[@wile123456]

Well what do you expect from the certified serial rapist and winner of "most overpaid CEO in the US", Bobby Kotick?

[@MeteorFalcon]

Jeff had such a love for the Overwatch franchise. He was probably the most heartbroken about the current state of PvE.

[@Micxomega]

where is he now? I will follow.

[@kvendy]

@@Micxomega sadly he cant make any announcement due USA ex-employee NDA rules, or make any competitive products similar to Overwatch anytime soon

[@Linkthepichu]

@@Micxomega he now works on films.

[@Giorneau]

@@Micxomega I've seen that he's one of the writers for the new Fantastic Four movie

[@SadMatte]

Kinda true, but I can see the same thing with Aaron... maybe not as obvious because "big corpa"

[@aetlaslegacy]

As a softwares dev myself I've been noticing the thinning senior dev ranks. IMO it is exactly the corporate "How do I make money now, and squeeze as much as I can out of my employees?" that is killing the industry from the inside. Very few devs are given the tools to grow their knowledge and experience into a senior position. Instead, entry level devs are being burnt out and job swapping for competitive wages, because the way they are being treated isn't sustainable.

[@Real_MisterSir]

Yea the main issue is that spread sheets don't show the quality of a developer, it only shows how many manhours they can put in and how much they're paid for those hours. A game can live or die at the hands of the average experience level of the dev team through multiple compounding factors such as experience with the game engine, workflow optimization, clean code writing, understanding how the different teams talk together effectively, being able to handle pressure from upper management, etc etc. From a generalist work guidance perspective I would advice a company like ActiBlizz to expect new young devs to need at least 1.5-2 years of inhouse experience before they know the ins and outs of how their team operates and how to efficiently use the tools at their disposal and be truly independent devs. Until that point, 2 young devs don't equal 1 senior dev. They can get more done on paper, but the quality will be lacking and the last 20% infamously requires 80% more effort, which is where pure numbers don't make the difference that the spread sheet lies to you about.

[@aetlaslegacy]

Totally agree. Had a laugh at your 1.5 - 2 years comment, all the companies I have worked at start giving out warnings to devs that aren't "independent" at the 8 month mark.

[@FlamingNinjaBoi]

The whole 'just get a better job' sentiment is really coming back to bite us, it seems.

[@sorcererofsalt5786]

The number one indicator of whether or not I will trust what a company says is if theyre a public for profit company or not. I will only believe what private companies say

[@FlamingNinjaBoi]

@MikeProductions1000 Honestly, I don't understand what anything you said has to do with what I said. Did you reply to the wrong comment?

[@josephreynolds2401]

Young, inexperienced devs means less money paid to them. The quality drop because these young devs are pushed into this code that they can't fathom because they aren't experienced. This is how labor works. The companies need to foster talent, not drain it to give junior devs some thin bones in compensation. The product doesn't come out the same.

[@DatAsianGuy]

it's not even an issue of "lack of experience" with these new young devs. it's mainly an issue, like you alluded to, that they basically have to fix and deal with scripts and codes they never worked on before. it's fine if that code is not to big and complex, but with a game like OW(2), there is so much shit that you need to learn, to understand why things break for some reason. basically the programmers can't really work on fixing shit, if they first have to figure out what all the scripts and codes are supposed to do in the first place.

[@josephreynolds2401]

@@DatAsianGuy Ty for explaining more for context. You're 100% bang on. A lot of old code prodigies died during covid, when your network and code infrastructure is run by a handful of old experts and you don't have talent in the pipeline to to pick up the reins nor are you willing to train appropriately if you hire from outside, you're fucking boned. Overwatch was boned by bad HR, short sighted business "sense", and salaried executives/board members lapping up the monetary value of whatever good rep the company had at a trickle of what they could've had sustainably if they invested resources maintaining their reputation. Edit: Corporate jargon isn't maintaining their reputation. Putting resources back into the game is what puts good faith back on the table. It's quite disappointing to see Jared Neuss and Aaron essentially grovel for their executive/board member's ill advised whims. But it certainly takes more guts and brains to be the devs in this situation, something the corporate bad actors will never have.

[@nickp8041]

Ever since the industrial revolution, companies have done nothing but consistently try to find more ways to screw over their workers for their own financial gains. Eventually the government stepped in and started regulating them because what they were doing was so immoral and disgusting. Here in the modern day, things are better, but some superficially. You could make a legitimate argument that wage stagnation and problems at large with the economy and inflation is largely to do with just how immoral these companies are, the people at the top simply do not see anything beyond profit at the expense of everyone and everything else. Activision blizzard is know for being one of the greediest, laziest and sleaziest companies in gaming because they have shown time and time again they do not care about reputation, integrity or innovation, only profits. So while you are 100% right that they need to foster talent, it is not something they will ever believe or will focus on because the people at the top of the company are money obsessed sociopaths. There are exceptions to this; companies actually run by human beings with morals, but activision blizzard is 100% not one of them. This reflects on their workforce, think about how absolutely terrible they have to be to force people who worked for the company for 20 years, and the ones who have been there since or near the start out of the company after decades into early retirement even though they're working on something they're passionate about, as well as have a revolving door of employees with almost no product to show for it. This is not a healthy work environment and as a society it is not something that we have the tools or interests to deal with which is why it's an extremely common issue. The people who are in charge will stay in charge, the problems will persist and nothing will change. Corporate structures like this simply don't ever change without outside intervention, but likely they're getting bought out by microsoft eventually so we will have to see what happens years from now. Microsoft while not having the most stellar track record at least knows how to treat it's employees and foster talent, as opposed to Activisions money obsessed mentally ill leadership obsessed with money to an unhealthy degree.

[@ccricers]

Best succinctly put by another developer that told us this: "You think hiring experienced developers is expensive? Try hiring an inexperienced developer to do the same complex job and see what that will cost your company."

[@benjaminasmus3980]

Stop blaming the devs when managers can simply hire more people to work on their overhyped lies.

[@nailinthefashion]

Flats on main: we're chillin and vibin Flats on the side: let's get this tea y'all

[@wile123456]

Don't forget getting sandwiches

[@jewels3846]

​@@wile123456 tea and sandwiches 💯

[@erikdayne5429]

No shortage of tea when it comes to Blizzard. At this point it’s logical to wonder what the next scandal will be.

[@AbbyLynette]

@@jewels3846Every tea party needs sandwiches

[@nailinthefashion]

@@erikdayne5429 no but literally I've been trying not to speculate on what seasons 8+ will bring. I have this bad feeling they won't make it into the thirties again lol their connection to the force is weakening

[@Matt-pz4we]

Having worked in the corporate world for well over a decade now, I can bet you that Jeff was "quiet fired". Activision wanted to replace creative types with business types for profit margins. As Sam said in his video, it's probably best that companies that make art not be publicly traded. The c-suite most likely made him constantly report on schedule, cost, risk, etc. at multiple levels above him. I've seen it done multiple times to senior leaders that weren't making numbers under a new regime, they make life miserable until you quit on your own and they can replace you in a less ugly way than firing.

[@JohnRed]

It's very true and shows the difference between old Blizzard and new Blizzard. Jeff Kaplan isn't some kind of well educated game designer who studied business for 10 years. Jeff Kaplan is a guy who was good at Everquest and was hired by Blizzard purely because he was good at a game and they thought he could help with World of Warcraft and make the game fun. He climbed the ranks at Blizzard and proved himself. New Blizzard would never allow something like this, they only want whoever has the credentials that will look good to investors. Old Blizzard operated a lot like old Valve where they hire fans and modders and recognize the importance of the players and their input. The games were made by people who loved games.

[@kykyisurpapi]

i just joined overwatch a few months ago and i already want to leave 💀

[@wungusbill_]

Honestly feel the same

[@philliptraum2788]

I’m sorry. It didn’t used to be this way. Don’t judge the ones who hung around longer too harshly.

[@BlazedKiller308]

gonna be honest bro it might be a better idea to get off the sinking ship tbh

[@spe3dst0rm13]

Leave there is no point

[@yinyin8769]

Dawg we’ve all been in a toxic relationship with this game for years. Leave while you still can

[@shruggggg]

they really "redefined what a sequel is" by giving us an updates the game needed 4 years ago and calling it a sequel...

[@Real_MisterSir]

U misspelled "downgrade"

[@actuallynotsteve]

I'd argue that they actually redefined what a sequel is by taking the original game, removing some stuff from it, and releasing it again 4 years later.

[@rezaruki3912]

Imagine if all The Omnic crisis, Blackwatch, Talon PVE event from OW1 dont comeback on OW2, its indeed a downgrade, and this sequel for me is the biggest scam of all gaming history, this is just OW1.5 with just an update to free to play and battlepass bullshit practice

[@Fucklifedeadshit]

Yeah I’m personally pissed about street fighter 6 they should’ve called it street fighter 2 hyper alpha tournament edition unleashed legacy

[@Fucklifedeadshit]

@@vopcracker3193 idk man get better and you’ll climb not everything is a conspiracy

[@Real_MisterSir]

For clarification of the "bad because new devs are young?" While young devs tend to bring in new fresh takes and approaches to stuff like hero and map design, ability interaction etc, they often lack the necessary experience with dev workflow and scope as well as raw experience with the tools used like the game engine, lacking the understanding of the different departments within the team that need to speak together, feeling increased pressure from handling shifting deadlines and being moved around by upper forces, etc etc. This usually takes a year or two for a fresh dev to gain solid foothold in a new position as a young developer in an existing team of a major corpo environment, hence why seasoned devs are always so valuable for big companies to hold onto - yet many corpos fail to do so out of greed and attempts to min-max their bottom line they fail to see the qualities that spread sheets can't tell them in their monthly management meetings. 2 young devs won't add up to the experience of one senior dev (generally speaking). But on a spread sheet it looks good to have doubled staff and then expect double workload - or at the very least *more* work to be done than before. In reality it just means that for a long while, there will simply be more legs that stumble over each other, than before.

[@TheAcidicMolotov]

Spaghetti code kills games, hiring new kids gives the entire game issues for years to come. Very dangerous hiring inexperieinced kids

[@Real_MisterSir]

@@TheAcidicMolotov They just need to be supervised by experienced devs thats all it takes, but when the young inexperienced devs outnumber the seasoned devs by 4:1 or more, you get major issues real quick

[@TheAcidicMolotov]

@@Real_MisterSir supervision takes up alot of time, its not really all it takes.

[@jsan2548]

This is how it works in the big tech sector in general. Despite best efforts, siloed knowledge will always exist. And it inevitably ends up feeling like pulling teeth to get newbies the info they need to efficiently do their jobs when they come in behind the seasoned vets. It doesn’t help that there’s no such thing as efficient project management practices because the entire field of PMing is infested with theorists who have no practical technical knowledge around the projects they pretend to be managing. Add that to the litany of other ActiBlizz issues and it’s a recipe for failure.

[@frankcoley1537]

You're writing the long version of "Train them While They're Young" Get rid of the old guys, bring in hungry desperate and naive devs. Then mold them into Corporate boy/girl scouts. That's how you destroy a based game. Literally not having any seniors left from the old team... Idiots.

[@lukaslambs5780]

So sad this is all happening, but I still hold Jeff in very high regard. He along with the community at large deserved so much better!

[@MicDubTV]

Jeff is a large reason we're in this mess in the first place. The sooner the community realizes that & stops deifying him, the better. Jeff had great qualities, but also let us down many times.

[@quiteslayer4067]

@@MicDubTV how so?

[@MicDubTV]

@@quiteslayer4067 I feel that, if you've been around the game for a long time, you'll know. I currently just tilted off of the game due to toxic people, so explaining everything right now is low key an inconvenience xD I may come back tomorrow and explain.

[@2Namii]

​@@MicDubTV you're still playing? Lol

[@quiteslayer4067]

@@MicDubTV I mean I get the changes made in overwatch 1, and how long everything took, especially with brig, but to be fair wasnt there alot going on with blizzard? also, for atleast some of that time weren't they working on the pve, R.I.P PvE you will be missed, so that would of slowed the rate of updates i would imagine. they did atleast try, but i think i understand where ur coming from, slow updates to broken charecters and metas that ultimatly broke the game and/or community right? I mean yea he atleast partly to blame, but I feel like the situation was probably more complicated then that, tho I could be wrong.

[@DoctorPhilGud]

Imagine selling a game before its finished, then announcing youre "not going to finish it, but thanks for all the money"

[@xleplayVA]

Cant even sue, considering they made it free.

[@ericaltman4087]

There's Cloud Imperium who are still selling Star Citizen before it's finished for over a decade and swear it's gonna get finished someday!

[@steamedcream7671]

@@ericaltman4087 Special event! Get this limited time offer only 200 available $5000 won't be ready for another 6 years space ship! Outside of mobile games, CIG is peak abusive monetization. FOMO, pay to win via lifetime insurance, low effort skins, "special" bundles hidden behind massive $10k pay walls. The sad part is that the "game" is 13 years into development, has raked in over $750 million in funds when including "pledges" and private investments and is still probably another 7+ years away from producing anything resembling a decent game. Overall gamers are their own worst enemies. If we collectively had an ounce of self control, the industry at large would not have moved in this live service monetize everything direction. The only real advice I can give is to never purchase any micro transaction or any early access title. It's the only way to get back to the glory days of "I give money, I get finished game, the end" monetization model. In reality, this will never happen because gamers as a whole have some of the worst self control of any demographic in human history. Easy prey for our capital class overlords.

[@CharterForGaming]

There are probably legal steps one could take, but it would be way to expensive against a company like blizzard, it also take years since they just throw money at it just to delay it.

[@flyboombasher2858]

​@Hoodoodle not anymore. 6 days ago they dropped that license agreement to prevent people from suing or acting upon a lawsuit if they play the game.

[@KandiKid87]

I can only say this: I remember when OW debuted. For me, it was a welcome change of flavor amid all the common servings. And then OWL happened and holy shit it was amazing. Then, something changed and OW dropped. A LOT of the old players left the scene [many never coming back] and it felt empty. Then comes the "sequel". With the hopes of players returning, new ones coming up, it seemed like a bit of a revival. Unfortunately, here we are.

[@LadyMorrigan]

That thing that happened was probably GOATS lol

[@Spider-Complexion]

Kinda feels like we’re basically back to the end of OW1. It’s now finally being updated and given new content but that content used to just be free but it’s all just PVP that’s still there to offer.

[@KandiKid87]

@Chloe Francois It was definitely not GOATS, for sure, and I say that as someone that both loved/hated that play style. But this was something more than just "Oh, we nerfed x into the ground and made x into the only option worth picking."

[@schmo49]

Yeah, they ruined their own game back in like 2018, they tried to make everyone happy and ended up making no one happy. So 2 was supposed to be a reset button but it's just been nothing but disappointment.

[@LadyMorrigan]

@@KandiKid87 honestly when I look back on it, I think what got me to stop playing comp and the game altogether was just the absolutely glacial pace of balance patches. I played on console so I had to deal with bastion meta in comp for many weeks 💀

[@x0gucx]

I hate having people settle for "it's better than nothing". Eating molded bread is better than nothing, that doesn't mean you can get away with feeding us that to save yourself from spending your fortune.

[@kratosdertoten4035]

Also ngl, seeing Jeff's leaving memo again made me tear up. Makes me think of what OW could have been if Jeff was allowed creative freedom.

[@Not_Ciel]

I’m so glad to hear that this small indie company was able to double it’s dev team from 4 to 8 devs. Thanks, Blizzard 🙏🏻

[@GBENZ_]

flats, i'm holding you to tell us the jeff freedo beef in 5 years

[@RaReVapory]

Commenting so people will ping me when it’s told

[@PidgeyPlays]

Yes

[@YEYGAHH]

I don’t know if there’s much else to tell. If you’ve watched Freedo’s videos then you already know that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about a lot of the time (comp, development, marketing, etc) I’m sure the devs are just annoyed about his wrong speculations and bad suggestions.

[@BillPickle]

of the entire video, this is easily the thing I'm most curious about lol

[@tomash5585]

Same here

[@harm0ny_]

With them cutting PVE for money’s sake they’ve pretty much showed their hand as a company that cares more about making a profit than offering something worth playing. And that’s fine. They traded the thing most Overwatch players wanted the most in exchange for money, so now they’ll see the people who don’t care about the BP or skins fading out when they put less emphasis on unique modes and events and more emphasis on just pumping out whatever they can to make money. If that’s the route they want to take up top, then that’s the route they’ll take. And I hope it does bite them in the ass, because now the entire community doubts their commitment to making an entertaining game and their ability to offer something genuinely unique. They’re just not going to be able to keep up the hype as the seasons go on.

[@screaming10yearoldsinc.66]

did it really take you THIS long to realize Blizzard is a company that regards profits over quality?

[@erikdayne5429]

Yeah I feel like selling cosmetics is the byproduct of having a good game. If the content dries up and less people keep playing, there will be less people to buy skins. I can respect that they want to sell cosmetics, they’re a company and they have the right to make money, but I think it’s a short term strategy to prioritize cosmetics over content, because the content is what keeps people playing and therefore keeps them buying the cosmetics.

[@erikdayne5429]

@@screaming10yearoldsinc.66 quality creates profit though. Just look at the MCU. The movies were great and they were very successful. The movies have taken a dip in quality and so have their profits.

[@TheAcidicMolotov]

So how would you run your company? Prolly one that loses money since you dont think companies should make money

[@TheAcidicMolotov]

@@erikdayne5429 not true, cod makes alot of money, skins battlepass, yearly crap.

[@gimpgumby1127]

Honestly I’d be surprised if Blizzard wasn’t working on AI generated content to cut costs. Why pay someone to design a new skin if you can type “Robo-cop Cassidy” into a program?

[@trambus1144]

Good point

[@Relevart9169]

Will explain why the quality in everything is down the drain while the price is higher than everest

[@gerharddamm5933]

Ow never had a chance. The old devs just wanted to iterate on Titan for another 10 years and saw OW as a stepping stone in that process. Meanwhile, Activision/Kotick just wanted the most aggressive/fast monetization possible.

[@TheJudoJoker]

"EA has really redefined what a sequal is. I always thought a sequal meant more content than its predecessor. But that just shows how archaic my thinking is." -Yahtzee in his ZP reviews of Sims 4 and SimCity 2013

[@metalmelon1118]

I wish Jeff and some other devs would go on and produce a similar PvE Game independently.

[@EnjoyerOfCats7]

I would contribute to a crowdfund for that tbh

[@DauntlessBlade___]

The more I see of the promised pve, the more it hurts to see such a amazing thing wasted

[@butter_0021]

Flats laughing hysterically any time Freedo mentioned how he annoyed Jeff is making me really want to know the story.

[@darklord935]

Tag me if anyone tells the story please😂

[@connoraltier7081]

Context makes me think that those phrases he was saying like ‘thorn in Jeffs side’ or ‘most annoying content creator’ are actual quotes Jeff himself said in private conversations between the devs and creators

[@jazay591]

​@@connoraltier7081 wouldn't be surprised

[@Relevart9169]

​@@connoraltier7081 I can imagine them sitting and talking and Jeff saying "you're a thorn in my ass you know?" But they just can't tell us

[@redbarchetta]

I was almost thinking it was the opposite. “Jeff could barely even remember who you were, dude.” 😅

[@flyingfajitas]

Alright, best timeline. Ready? Microsoft buys out ABK, Bobby is out, Philly Spence gets Jeff to come back and provides resources, we get the Overwatch we always should have.

[@JinkaB0o]

In a alternative timeline where the UK didnt shut that down for another 10 years.. life is good.

[@Boss24601]

@@JinkaB0o so many monopoly issues, and then shut THIS of all things down. Capitalism is bullshit, but shutting off his down was fucking stupid compared to what they let slide

[@Kelenae]

This is some heavy Cope

[@xolagix]

this is the heaviest corporate copium ive seen

[@souljacrankthat]

And then you wake up

[@taserface780]

I love SirSwag

[@GearComanderCam]

15:43 i really want to know what happened now lol maybe in 5 years I've will lol The ways he laughs at this especially at 27:55 reinforces my wanting to know the situation lol

[@TheRiskybizniz]

you think Aaron ever calls Jeff saying "wtf do I do!" ?? lol

[@GabrielxDesign]

LOL, I imagine Jeff like "Aaron, this is Jeff, from the non-Overwatch team".

[@Shikaitsu]

jeff says ,suck it ,you brought this on yourself ,you should of left like I did

[@OgreDLink]

When they smile lie it hits me hard too. Been having a similar issue with my boss. I do my best to be a good worker. It absolutely floored me that I fought to get up to a certain number and now they're just hiring people on at the same amount that I just spent 4 months fighting for. It kinda messed me up.

[@gixelz]

bro, fight for a raise. that's messed up. retroactive. i know it's probably a pipedream, but i had to do that as well. good luck. corpo dicks.

[@AarPlays]

My best guess as to why its so funny, is that a dev straight up called him annoying during an NDA session

[@genesisosuna]

So the suits took the fruit of the dev's team labor away, damn that sucks

[@PunkZombie1300]

Sounds like it's about time to give them control over their labor and the means to produce Overwatch themselves. Maybe have the employees vote on who actually manages them in order to get someone who doesn't just care about profits, but also making good games and taking care of the team and consumers. Just sayin' 👀

[@PixelatedFlu]

Anything with the title of "executive" should be ignored and treated as a child being "listened to" but really we ignore their cries for candy

[@Real_MisterSir]

Instead of letting the tree grow into its full size, they chopped it at knee height for one day's worth of firewood. Bobby Kotick's mindset in a nutshell

[@waynetec13]

I bought a $50 pack of loot boxes every Halloween and Anniversary event. I still miss loot boxes.

[@kwiemi9]

The issue is CEOs taking insane part of value produced, cost of salaries should never be a problem

[@Skynertia]

Wonder how different things would be if Blizzard would have just created 4-8 new heroes for PvE (instead of using the current cast) and developed the game around those new characters who could've been dumped into OW2 PvP at launch.

[@pokeydude]

Would honestly love to hear Flats' opinion about Microsoft's looming acquisition of OW2 and what it could possibly mean for the company.

[@paulahrens581]

Flats you’d be more enjoyable if you didn’t act like a Know It All

[@ihateanimebutonlywhenitiso7227]

I like Flats but he’s been so unbearable in this whole situation trying to downplay everything

[@paulahrens581]

@@ihateanimebutonlywhenitiso7227 it’s just the way he reacts when someone has another opinion or calls him out on HIS bad play he get an ego and it’s gross. Plus man be touching his face all the time

[@3amAfterlife]

I just want my damn fantasy overwatch world realized in some kind of form. I fell in love with the characters and stories, and the fast paced gameplay is always what I'm looking for personally. My adhd demands it lol

[@CherryBombBouillion]

Flats is so mother

[@nailinthefashion]

He's so nurturing

[@Rebecca-bk9bd]

I hope flats reacts to this

[@shmixedNshmooved]

There's something magical about the disconnect between business executives and the actual game and it's fanbase.

[@zaprct]

I think that tweet saying the part about Jeff not being accurate was because the actual reason he left is still speculation, Freedo is making his own assumptions. It's also just as plausible that he got into heated arguments with Bobby and Bobby got rid of him, rather than Jeff choosing to leave his passion project willingly.

[@rasmachris94]

I think that even if work from home was stopped in jan/feb, it doesnt mean that it it couldnt have impacted the potential revival of PVE. If it was called to be cancelled in Dec by execs they could have argued, and then the final nail in the coffin could be return to work in jan/feb which forced people to leave the company who were on the team that lived in other states.

[@bat7214]

I really hope a new hero based shooter comes out, I mean rn ow2 is fucking horrible, paladins is a little better but has also been abandoned. I feel like its an open market

[@BlazedKiller308]

the apex team should make an objective based team mode, they already got a variety of characters

[@OGXenos]

Team Fortress 2 is still the original, alive and well

[@connorh2215]

@@OGXenos alive and well is a strong statement. It hasn’t been updated for years. Sure it still has a community but it doesn’t look like valve is taking that game anywhere soon

[@PixelatedFlu]

Paladins is adandoned? Didn't they release a new Tank awhile ago? Then again that may have been like 2 months or so. Either way EvilMojo would be wasting the chance to take advantage of the shitstorm OW is going through

[@ags8507]

@@connorh2215 game was supported for over 10 years, game being alive is based on the community, not the updates themselves, game still reaches around 100k players

[@awesomeguy9513]

My thinking for the campaign is it might’ve been a *40$ drop package with some exclusive skins and some extra missions would be packed else where like a dlc or in the premium pass. Best guess for how it’s gonna be now is the mission will be locked behind the battle pass and the mastery will be free or the mastery will be behind the battle pass and missions will be free. If blizzard higher ups can see away to sell the missions and make something off then they’ll do it like using it to sell more premium battle passes each season

[@erikdayne5429]

Yeah I have no idea how they’re gonna monetize it, but I’m worried that instead of a $40 or even a $60 one time box price, they’ll be included in the battle passes, for $20 each, where you need to buy like 6-8 missions individually and in the end the total cost is way more than the box price would have been. I’ll spend up to $60 for the campaign missions but I’m not willing to buy like 10 of them for $20 each.

[@Hietakissa]

@@erikdayne5429 tbf if they have more deals like they have rn (1000 coins + season 4 pack, which includes bp and 1000 more coins) you can get the battle pass for 3 seasons for just 10 bucks + you can get the bp for free every 2nd or 3rd season by doing the weekly challenges

[@solitwar]

Im thinking they would make something like destiny, where alot of content is behind a paywall but you still can play the base game

[@lukeGGlee]

Thats exactly how you kill the game which im all for

[@angel__king]

I’ve been learning game development like 3d modeling and level design and it’s just depressing to see modern AAA gaming go from high risk passion projects to low risk high profit projects. It’s still there in indie games but it’s just sad to see the state of this as a gamer who wants to make stuff

[@akimomalrov3241]

I follow Sir Swag on the regular and have been one of their patreons for quite a while. I am very glad that the video made by Sir swag is getting the right attention, cause i was getting tired of folks screaming about the dev's mistakes as if they are the ones 100% at fault, which is not the case.

[@akimomalrov3241]

For Reference, Sir Swag is a news Channel at this point, and prides itself on providing real credible news as unbiased as possible. They have gone to great lengths to provide this for multiple years now, So based on their built up merit and reputation, i still value their journalism on this. even if their source is unnamed.

[@Sqooosh]

Come back Jeff 😢

[@roguedeathangel]

Being unable to monetise PVE is nonsense. As a Destiny player i can assure you PVE players buy a ton of skins. Additionally they'd buy the Battlepass assuming you can earn XP towards it by just playing PVE. They could also charge for yearly expansions to the PVE and campaigns, and lock the seasonal story updates behind the Battlepass. Very, very short sighted by ATVI. It's well known that Phil Spencers favorite game is Destiny. I could see Microsoft resurrecting Overwatch PVE as their FPS/MMORPG live service vehicle after the failure of Halo Infinite. Additionally Gamepass never includes DLC so even if the initial campaign is included on Gamepass all of the future seasons and expansions could be monetized for Gamepass/Cloud users.

[@21Light12]

Here’s a quote and barely my opinion but here’s the traveler quote by Twain “Broad, wholesome, charitable view of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one corner all one’s lifetime.” Just a quote please enjoy.

[@JimmyBrown-po3io]

Welp, overwatch falling to their knees now, rip

[@kimdetran342]

i would have gladly payed full price just for pve, if not the cancelation

[@tundrafire2590]

"Better than nothing" is still an abusive relationship not ending with you crying to sleep that night

[@Dunestorm333]

This is why AAA gaming is dead to me; it's ALL about profits, the quality of the game is secondary.

[@LordOfWaffles32]

When the world needed him most, he vanished.

[@Bovium]

I think the worst part is that he just poofed off the face of the earth. I'd like to know what he's doing now. He was a very charismatic project lead, and I'd follow any game knowing he's in charge, even though he didn't make the best decisions, he put the game first before money.

[@kielmessersmith1956]

I hope that's not contempt, Jeff got fucked more than anyone in all this. Did terrible corpo bosses force you to quit your dream job? Then take your hard work and butcher it to make those same terrible people more money?

[@ffxidrgblu]

I need to know the beed with Jeff and Freedo so bad after seeing Flats' reaction to it lol

[@bub5842]

I know someone high up at activation. Exactly what happened. Also activation will not invest money into anything that does not give them SUBSTANTIAL return. So the price got higher, deadlines were going longer, and they said "were not gonna make a lot on this" and scrapped it. Diablo is going to make so much that they dont mind scrapping OW2. they want faster returns and thats on the shareholders.

[@onetruegamer]

im really looking forward to hearing the freedo/ow dev exchanges in the future

[@Pantong]

One thing to think about long term game, new heroes with PVE talents in game, extends how long it takes to create new heroes. Slowing down PVE and PVE content drips. Where they can cut out 40-60% of the dev time depending on standards just to release a new character.

[@dboyedoe]

The concept of 'friction' is what Flats was talking about in relation to "Buy now" button

[@bojkenoven]

Apollo 13 has a new name: Team 4.

[@DESMal]

8:00 one interesting thing about payment and stuff, I was talking with an indie developer -Archvale- and they mentioned that for them to get the unreleased rogue like mode translated it cost over $10k. When they had to translate the actual base game I could imagine it being another $10-20k of which that was all out of pocket money. Game Dev is expensive and people don't realise that at all.

[@doctorno.6641]

We know this but still 4 years in one of the biggest triple AAA game publishers lie and yoink money with empty promises it leaves a sour taste in your mouth

[@DESMal]

@@doctorno.6641 ya... most AAA companies just don't seem to care and only care about the money. Nintendo is the sme yet different. We look at their games and they all have very little to no micro transactions in them. BOTW and TOTK both could have pay walled loot boxes in them, but instead they have you do a ONE TIME purchase for an amiibo. That you can scan it once a day for a loot box. We look at splatoon 3 and they have essentially a battle pass but it's completely free to grind and get tones of cosmetics from it. And then we flip the coin and look at what Nintendo is doing? So many Law suits, so many take downs and 'cease and desist' orders. Just a lot of Legal Business against their fans. Meanwhile other companies just don't sem to care as much what you do with the product, but throw as much pay walled stuff into it as possible to suck you dry and make as much money as possible.

[@mspoints4fre123]

It would actually be refreshing if they said straight up "It's a time sink. We'd lose money. Fuck you". Instead of the BS "it's the best thing for our audience" that we got.

[@Real_MisterSir]

Players vs Blizzard upper management and pr police is the real PVE experience all along - and it's free!

[@crowdozer3592]

6:10 Perhaps the reason Jeff talked in lowercase so much is to implicitly differ between what Kotick/PR wants him to say, and what he wants to say, without saying "They told me to say this"

[@randomguy3080]

I am hoping they eventually bring back the skill trees that we saw in 2019, I know it is not a lot, but I want something

[@D3th10rd]

Former Dev: The stuff in this video is inaccurate, its not entirely true, its not why Jeff left. Everyone: Ok, what is the truth? Why did Jeff leave? Former Developer: Ooo look, a beautiful flock of birds over there! 🏃‍♂️💨

[@thegreatlemmon7487]

i'd quit too, i never seen such a fast sinking ship,

[@CombatMagic]

The thing with the talents trees being too complicated doesn't make sense to me, they did talent trees for Heroes of the Storm, every hero has talents that radically changes their play styles in at least 3 different ways.

[@Relevart9169]

They aren't even complicated, reading the parts we can see its just stuff like dealing % more dmg or Mercy's staff having 20% more range, its not 50 unique abilities per hero

[@CombativeMedic]

15:46 Ooh? Well now I'm just curious.

[@ljb5163]

When will executives realize that good products make more money over time? Making a game with staying power is way more valuable than making a cash grab that will get old quickly because no substance or love was put into it.

[@Relevart9169]

Do ppl just refuse to read the talents we've seen? 30-50 per hero is nothing when most are +3% dmg +20% range on Mercy's staff, they weren't 50 unique abilities

[@Gxome]

The skill tree would’ve been so dope man 😭

[@ahmetefecetinkoc7924]

I left Apex a long time ago. Last time I checked casual play would be you either drop hot and die immidiately or drop to a remote location and get annihilated by the people who survived those "hot drops" and those people would be people who ran away from ranked. Ranked, would be people packing up smores and waiting till there were 10 teams in a circle the size of an overwatch capture point.

[@PixelatedFlu]

- *just joined the OW community like a month ago only to be hit with PVE news* - *not AS affected as I wasn't waiting YEARS for it* - "This is bad but luckily I am not too hurt..." - *sees feminine looking Omnidroid* - "WE WERE ROBBED"

[@TecTitan]

LMAO

[@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad]

Lmao who? Puller?

[@gendai_ronindgr]

Seeing a lot of game corps that i loved turn into extreme greed tells my intrusive thoughts that a few magnicides on the upper managements maybe wouldnt be so bad.

[@smit_ty6771]

7:27 i think we can all just agree bobby would rather this game die than take a paycut himself to expand what needed to be expanded.

[@Ghost-jq4ey]

flat being a chill for blizard for 30 minutes

[@stoatthemammal]

Marking this video on my calendar 5 years from now

[@reecedabeast5273]

“We doubled our team, but because its a bunch of new talent we couldn’t provide you pve, they didn’t have the critical experience of drinking breast milk to be able to make a game.”

[@reecedabeast5273]

I wonder if part of the reason why people didn’t want to relocate to California to work on site, was cause they didn’t want to be harassed.

[@reecedabeast5273]

Do you think the Pr team milks anyone who talks to much to outsiders. All in order to please the mein fuher Bobby

[@facupov]

Why cant we have a Hero shooter owned by a good company for once? what a condemned genre, Ow-Paladins-Bleeding edge-Crucible-Gigantic WTF

[@Snake3169]

You forgot battleborn too

[@ryangoldstein7543]

Love overwatch and all the work the devs do, it’s a shame that money always gets in the way (even though they’d probably make more with PVE)

[@TheAcidicMolotov]

Definitey wouldnt make more money with pve, skins and battlepasses will always make more, explains why all these games have them now. One time payment, or frequent payment?

[@Bovium]

@@TheAcidicMolotov it's a shame. These multibillion companies need more money for some reason.

[@TheAcidicMolotov]

@@Bovium greed exists and there is more money to be made

[@oliverbs0417]

@@TheAcidicMolotov but there is going to be less players, transactions and battle passes mean nothing if there’s no one to buy them

[@TheAcidicMolotov]

@@oliverbs0417 not rlly, look at fortnite and cod

[@Not_Ciel]

20:17 this has always been an argument in Apex but its inherently an issue with the design of the game itself. You can either go out guns blazing and win or you can play stealthily and win. Both are valid strategies.

[@Zurpanik]

I completely understand the gutpunch of having someone smile at you and lie straight through their teeth. We're a very social being and trust is the kind of social currency we use and when we let people or things into our lives and we like them and put ourselves into them and give them our time (the only truly unrenewable thing we have) there is a massive amount of trust we're investing and to be lied to is losing time and energy you can never get back.

[@unholydead9513]

They just added the WoW Token to Classic Wrath of the Lich King. I hate Blizzard so much

[@shadezOW]

This man really said "The 100 people who bought loot boxes" meanwhile financial reports exist and they existed during those years of OW. Wild.

[@nemisesdragon]

Here's how I propose they should have done PVE to in a way that could have satisfied both players, and the money men. Phase 1: The Return of Overwatch Price: 40-60$ Playable Characters: Torb, Mercy, Genji, Tracer, Reinhardt, Brigitte, Mei, Winston. Phase 2: The Allies of Overwatch Price: Part of every 2 or 3 Seasons Playable heroes 1 out of: Lucio, Orisa, Echo, Pharah, Ana, Soldier, etc. Phase 3: First Expansion/Major DLC: Talon Strikes Price: 40 - 60$ Playable heroes: Reaper, Widowmaker, Sigma, Sombra, Doomfist, maybe Ramrattra etc. Phase 4: Allies of Talon Price: Same deal as with the OW one, maybe they interchange depending on how many heroes are out for each side.

[@Glizzyman]

My question for the OW community is why I see so many people say jeff kaplan was like a god or something, the game was almost as bad as when he was there and we had brig meta for so long and even double shield soo idk what that's all about

[@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad]

Jeff have a better management at game developer and you being up his "Game Balance" up is just poor

[@Glizzyman]

@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad wouldn't say better management exactly, maybe at peak ow but then again he's the reason ow went down so far in the first place

[@yak5438]

Honestly, I wanted to start playing Overwatch 1.5 ... but I'm not going to, lol Despite never actually playing it, I'd hate to see the game die. On the other hand, I think Blizzard deserves a kick in the [HAMSTER] balls.

[@aidanriess4946]

You mean Overwatch 0.75?

[@bat7214]

Overwatch 0.9*, a lot of features were removed in ow2 with almost nothing added other than more heros which should've existed in ow1 anyway

[@AegisEdge]

good news. The game wont die.

[@jesusskills]

Microsoft needs to get this deal done and fire bobby and rehire Jeff. Literally the only thing biggest enough to flip this disaster tbh.

[@AegisEdge]

honestly I'd love microsoft forever if they do this.

[@JinkaB0o]

Microsoft can't, UK blocked them out for 10 years until they can try to buy out Blizzard again.

[@MudkipsAreEpicWin]

I don't think anyone cared about the skill trees where you increase your damage by 2.5% every level or whatever. We just wanted the ability changing stuff, like genji sonic blade, or mei's ice block freezing all nearby enemies or lucio wall stun.

[@Montesama314]

I would have gladly paid 30 or 40 bucks for a solid Overwatch campaign and some skins. But nope, corps want all of the money all of the time, and more the next quarter. So we keep getting half-done games with the monetization being the only thing that really works.

[@Reaperherpderp]

If you have 50 people initially but then 15 leave/quit and then you "double" whats left, you DID NOT double the team

[@keithb9933]

RIP Overwatch

[@sindri1447]

On the whole "young workforce" thing. 1 senior developer is more important to a steady workflow than 4 junior developers. Senior staff jumping ship is incredibly detrimental to the productivity of your company.

[@haunted_sniper]

look if the 5 year plan is to truly release a pve game as its own release for money i would buy it and fine. but ive been waiting for this since ow 1 and the hints in 2018

[@DatAsianGuy]

I still think there is one issue no one seems to talk about, when looking at this situation and the roadmap. Guys, genuinely, look at the roadmap again and look at all the content and realize... Let me summarize everything on that roadmap. Season 5: -Questwatch (Limited Time Event) -Mischief & Magic -New Cinematic (is Team 4 working on that cinematic?) -Summer Games -5v5 Mini Comp Season -On Fire Returns -Creator Workshop mode Season 6: -Story Missions -New Support Hero -Flashpoint (gamemode) -Hero Mastery -Firing Range -Player Progression System -OW Anniversary (yay, I guess) -And "more"? Season 7 and beyond: -New Tank Hero -Another Limited Time Event -New Control Map -Winter Event -New Hero Mastery Missions (Multiplayer -Roadhog Rework -Fan favorite modes return (?) -Cinematic Debuts -Competitive Mystero Heroes returns -Lore Codex -Sombra Rework Okay, I have listed basically everything that we will get, I hope... but let me ask you this.. From all the things listed, how much do you actually care about? How much does the OW Community at large care about? The two most important gamemodes are Quickplay and Competitive. All that event bullshit, nobody really gives a shit about. Does anyone still play Starwatch? I mean fuck, remember they basically jerked each other off on the livestream for an hour about the starwatch event, while only a fraction was dedicated to the shit the community actually cares about. The only things the majority of the community actually care from tht list are: Season 5: -5v5 Mini Comp Season -On Fire Returns Season 6: -New Support Hero -Flashpoint (gamemode) Season 7 and "beyond" -New Tank Hero -New Control Map -Roadhog Rework -Sombra Rework this is what the majority of people will actually focus on, we have no idea what all that other bullshit really means. I mean most people played the archive events in ow1 only for a little bit, they were dead usually after a week or two. I left out the story missions, but that's because everyone is probably bummed out. and I honestly don't think those story missions will be anything interesting. I expect shit on the level like all the archive events from ow1. The dev team has no focus. And the game suffers for it. and guys notice that "and beyond" after the season 7 part of the roadmap. that means in theory, we could only get one of the bullet points they wrote down, we don't know when those reworks for roadhog and sombra actually drop. season 8? 9? 10? 11??? Who knows. Expect nothing from Acti Blizz/Team 4.

[@Ro-fw3lc]

Can anyone explain to me what 15:40 was all about?

[@Daveyjonesvi]

Right I want to know what up

[@PunkZombie1300]

Some background stuff that is almost certainly not public info. If it was, Flats could probably at least reference it a little more.

[@KobeLoverTatum]

If you were playing 2 different free to play video games and one of them had just a normal quiet dev team and the other had a public plan from the devs outlining their future, which game would you rather spend your money on?

[@frankcoley1537]

Small team. K thx bye

[@KobeLoverTatum]

⁠@@frankcoley1537 then that falls on activision blizzard who literally supports a 3000 team of devs on MW2, lmfao what a cute response tho

[@OreWaLavai]

If selling out is what you need to do to look out for your best interests, you need to reevaluate your best interests. One should never have to compromise their own principles and integrity in order to live, and if you do, you’re living wrong.

[@TheChryystal]

"Overwatch 2 was suppose to be 'THE WALK!", of shame in the middle of the night, makeup smeared across the face, holding high heels and hoping no one notices while trying to basically become the Usain Bolt of creeping away with someone's full wallet .

[@peepoo2049]

Jeff was the last dev that showed actually emotion and passion in his demeanor, i mean Overwatch is pretty much his creation, and tiger being his brainchild Overwatch was never even suppose to be a PvP, Jeff really wanted to make a PvE originally, i mean thats what he specialises, why would the PvE-centric-developer want to suddenly make a PvP. Nay, overwatch being a PvP was upper managements decision Jeff was done bad ever since Overwatch's founding, id leave the company with this much shit going on for so long too

[@ZingyCreature2]

If Vought was a gaming company