Is this lowering the skill floor and creating bigger issues? | Overwatch 2

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[@Archivun]

"We removed skill" is what I heard when she said that

[@natedavis2944]

Pretty much like I don’t think one shots should be in the game. But if they’re in the game and someone is just insane at them then it is what it is they’re a pro for a reason lol

[@gacer_]

The fact is that aim is FAR from the most important thing in overwatch, you can hit more shots, but if you don't have gamesense ur cooked Bad aim and good gamesense is insanely better tha the opposite case

[@dragonlogos1]

Your kind of right these changes lowers the skill floor (the bottom amount of skill needed to be effective) but this change also effects skill ceiling (the maximum amount of skill that actually increases effectiveness). Now here the thing I don’t know how many times do “good” players hit the difference between these new hit boxes and the old ones. It is entirely possible that the skill ceiling was already too low for the pro scene for these changes to really matter for them. They already hit their head shots 99% of the time and when they miss it is outside of the new hit boxes.

[@Archivun]

@@dragonlogos1 with these changes they are pulling the game to a more rng state. Hitting your shots should be rewarding. This way you can realy make a difference during the match. You are left to the rng of finding good teammates and can't so much alone because everyone is hitting their shots anyway. But I do think it's a healthy change for the community, most players aren't pros and the game should be designed for everyone to enjoy.

[@charlesrhodes1089]

So you're saying the problem with overwatch..is a skill issue

[@hecktor2892]

Honestly the character I’m most worried for with the changes is tracer as this will either be a nerf (easier to get hit by one shots and other threatening stuff whilst kills (mainly one clips) potentially being harder to get) or a buff (more hp more consistent damage)

[@idkimnotcreative8974]

Exactly my thoughts, she will either be terrible now or be insane with the extra health and more consistent damage. I think for the most part it's a buff cause good tracers will use natural cover in almost any engage but still the hotbox changes could make her much harder to learn and will be one of the biggest adjustments

[@Mastrmyrtr9]

i don't see a world where tracer is playable after these changes. She does 220dps, and her ENTIRE mag does 240. So you literally have to land EVERY shot + a melee to get a kill on the new "squishy" hps. I feel like she's going to be a joke.

[@blazing910]

@@Mastrmyrtr9on top of 25 more up doesn’t change any of her breakpoints she still dies in the same number of shots from almost every character

[@kingmoosh2004]

@@Mastrmyrtr9the 240 damage per clip is if she literally hits zero headshots. what is this math. tracer players just like to complain as always

[@kingmoosh2004]

@@blazing91025 hp absolutely changes plenty of breakpoints are you kidding??

[@bushy472]

“When everyone is super, no one will be” This the is take i got

[@HumbleBeeUK]

Which youtuber said this? I'm seeing it everywhere

[@bushy472]

@@HumbleBeeUK it was the villain in the white and black suit from the incredibles

[@lesliejacoby9137]

I'm more concerned that they just wont nerf things to the point they just buffed everything (the complete opposite of community requests). What does it say for the future because I ain't playing against a 400 health bastion because they buff everything again.

[@jonahp1127]

It’s like real life economic inflation, except that it’s not like real life at all and they devs can nerf everything without there being any consequences. They’re just too stubborn to try.

[@azseal2669]

Blizzard balancing in a nutshell: Everything is fun and then the meta shifts and 1 role cries. They buff that role. The other roles adapt and then another role cries, so they buff that role. The original role cries, so they buff that role. The third role complains both roles are getting massive buffs and that they can't keep up. Every role gets a buff that doesn't address the issue. Rinse and repeat. (they've done this in other games for *years*)

[@gacer_]

​@@azseal2669it makes the meta shift frequently, it's not a Bad thing imo

[@aranFGC]

​@@azseal2669 Which other games? Starcraft wasnt balanced like that. Wow wasnt balanced like that. So which ones? Hearthstone? Hearthstone was a shitshow in terms of balancing but you cant really compare those. HotS? Played HotS through half of the game lifespan, was always balanced towards new heroes and later on they attempted to redo most game mechanics.

[@jordonp3149]

@@azseal2669except the don’t buff tanks

[@nfortin24]

Its gunna throw balance for a loop.. characters like Lucio will now basically shoot a horizontal line of damage through a choke. We shall see how it goes..

[@LasagnaMAX]

I think if they make all hit boxes larger they should maker kirikos chest bigger

[@Taipan_3175]

I agree, her legs should not be the widest portion on her hitbox.

[@riptyurass302]

How are they gonna justify the bigger chest? Kiriko hit puberty? 🤣

[@AwesomeAlex2007]

@@riptyurass302she stopped riding her bike ;)

[@venomsnanake]

holy shit based

[@dungeonsanddragonsanddrive2902]

🤨

[@ZephNachtmachen]

I think it'd be an interesting dynamic, part of this going forward should mean that it'll be easier to balance the game overall (in theory). If the average accuracy goes up, then any future changes to damage, spread or anything like that won't disproportionately affect the different skill tiers as much. At least that's the theory I think.

[@finalwitness203]

Skill issue, too much pandering to the lower ranks

[@justjoking5252]

​@@finalwitness203 Like them or hate them, they *_are_* the majority player base. The devs said pharah was "oppressive" on first point junkertown for a reason. A stupid reason, but it is a reason.

[@0dcsauce]

So excited for tomorrow. I know it will take a while to get used to but either way I LOVE meta changing patches and this is by far the biggest one.

[@meat3958]

This is a meta obliterating patch; Everyone and their mother will be hitting every shot imaginable. It legitimately feels like you’re playing with aim assist/cheats 💀

[@gecgoodpasi1654]

Its a shift of skill expression in a very very big way cause it removes alot of skill ceiling for aim which means other factors will become alot more relevant but like said in the video stuff like widow, hanzo and other precise weapons suddenly having hitboxes of kunais is crazy 😂 it makes the viable headshot space on most characters almost double.

[@4589dude]

Giant F you to players who put in the work to improve their aim and hit those shots. This dev team has been solely concerned with holding people's hands

[@truckmuncher8998]

Exactly your shots should be consistent if your AIM is consistent if it isn’t it’s the very definition of skill issue

[@HumbleBeeUK]

I wouldn't say so. If anything, it empowers them more, there's still a skill difference to hit shots more consistently and get headshots. I don't like how they made it so some body hitboxes now cover up head hitboxes... Try shooting Echo in the practise range, shoot about the centre of her face, at or just under her nose. No critical hit.

[@hazemalnefaie5059]

Even flats is getting bigger hitbox 💀💀

[@azseal2669]

Can't wait to see even more complaints about how the horse never dies.

[@SecretWalrus99]

one thing i wasn’t prepared for is everyone was talking about how soldier and widow can hit more shots but now also spread characters do more dmg per shot because more of their pellets land. doom and genji can still blow up supports cause their spread fire is more consistent now

[@thes1lv3rwolf27]

I feel like hardly anything has changed i still explode quite frequently and as a tank with the dps buff i feel it even more so ngl

[@Taipan_3175]

Well I won't have too much trouble picking off Kiriko now.

[@junthemaledicted]

tbh I don’t mind if they reduce the hit box of projectiles and bullets cuz man those hit boxes are insane

[@Jacktg-br4zs]

So for fun factor i think the bigger casual side of players will have more fun playing the game. But for a high ranked game it may have some issues especially those who can aim very precisely on a hitscan, by giving them extra leeway to miss slightly more shots will be hit. But we will have to wait until tomorrow and proper patch notes to get all the numbers of other changes

[@Kevin-xq2tv]

Those ppl gonna hit shots regardless

[@Jacktg-br4zs]

@Kevin-xq2tv Yeah, obviously theyre still going to hit shot regardless of the change. But now they're going to hit more shots ontop of what they could, more consistently and more of them will be headshots. This results in them doing more damage over time and ultimately having more presence in a fight. Now im not saying its necessary a bad thing, but in high rank play it could be a problem/ make it less fun for other roles. Again we will have to wait for the other nerfs and buffs to be announced

[@Kimarnic]

Meh, OW is between bronze and plat

[@nm3k511]

I always like the complex side of things as a casual even if I wasnt good at it. Sure dumbing it down makes it easier to achieve the same thing, BUT it makes the hero that was dumbed down loses the identity it once had. Like Doomfist for example, was supposed to be like the fighting game genre-based hero, but after turning into a tank.... It is almost like a lower HP lower sustain, but highly mobile Winston.

[@Jacktg-br4zs]

@nm3k511 I can totally see you point and with the release of the patch notes and not many other major changes that i can see. I say this on pure stipulation and speculation but, this is going to make the casual gamer side of this game feel way better especially due to the large majority of dps players, if you couldn't aim so well but wanted to play with friends and that stopped you its perfect. I dont think the games pace will slow down so you keep the fast pace shooter aspect. I think doom has lost his character philosophy but maybe not due to this patch, just the amalgamation of the switch to overwatch 2. He should be a dps in my opinion maybe, but idk its hard to balance him. I dont think this takes away from the game, its still complex and can be strategical or jolimg and dumb. We may even see a wider range of more viable comps from this allowing casual play to be truly casual.

[@ninjakilzombie3442]

As consistent M3 Support. GM2 Tank and D5 Dps. I'd say it will become easier to climb in just terms of mechanical skill. However, Game Sense and Knowledge will always outplay a Good Mechanical Player. (Do not argue with me about pros. They have both game sense, game knowledge [comms], and Mechanical skill, those guys are PRO for a reason. They are the best of the best), so you will probably see people already in higher Ranks (M2+) climb more due to easier games from lower ranks (D2 and below) hitting these higher ranks due to better mechanical skill, but lacking game sense and good comm skills.

[@ashforde3472]

Once you rank high enough, people dont miss their shots at all. So this change really only affects the metal ranks.

[@Anzyclos]

I understand that at GM+, these issues are what you deal with, but it's a different reality for the metal ranks, that have 75% of the lobbies filled with either Smurfs or toxic trolls on alt accounts.

[@pabloquijadasalazar7507]

As long as the Widows on my team are now hitting more shots, I’ll be fine with it.

[@gaze2156]

What I think will be the biggest change is that AD strafing will be far less effective. Jiggling your character from side to side will avoid far less bullets because the bullets are bigger.

[@rawtoastgaming-Gin]

I disagree, if you actually strafe and not just spam left and right you should still be able to avoid most things on most characters that arent the fat tanks

[@meat3958]

All mechanical skill won’t matter anymore when every projectile is half the size of your hero’s hitbox. They added baby bumpers because the metal ranks got tired of their shit aim 👍

[@thehorse5307]

I think if they wanted to try this out, they should have increased the projectile size a bit more incrementally. I've been on PC for 6 months, and in terms of aim I've been very average. I have good games, I have bad games. I had a game yesterday where I went 15 to 0 on Ashe because the headshots I would have previously whiffed, I'm hitting consistently now. But that's not satisfying because now my aim is never going to need to improve. My aim will probably get worse because there's less of a need for me to be precise. They've lowered the mechanical skill ceiling on one of the few games that had one of the highest mechanical skill ceilings on PC purely due to how fast and varied all the characters moved. I'll still play OW but I just don't feel as rewarded by making big plays when I know that if this was OW a week prior I probably wouldn't be hitting the shots I'm hitting now.

[@GX0245]

I said this before but I really feel like poke hero’s along with certain dive characters are gonna massively get more benefits due to hitting more shots meaning more ult charge as well

[@minimalgrammar1276]

The hitscan thing just seems unnecessary. I don't hate it, the skill cap is still perfectly high... But it does seem very unnecessary.

[@jacobmccown7714]

Fr I'm wondering if it will feel any different at all honestly

[@HeWhoSoars.]

I cant wait for Gigantic to come back!!!!

[@ARedBear]

It’s about to get funky 😎

[@RemedieX]

I think these changes are going to ironically complicated balancing even more lol

[@cime62]

+ Widow will be the only dps who can still oneshot. Kinda unfair for Hanzo or even Nanoblade for instance

[@HoltonStudios]

I played games yesterday. I’m diamond and all the games were qp. I felt like since people can hit everything if you shoot first you win. Kinda thing. I felt like most people were getting deleted very quickly if the team were focusing someone. I felt like I needed to heal a lot more but equally my dmg was higher than normal when playing Ana. But I was having a constant panic that everyone was critical all the time. Tanks were getting frustrated at me that they were falling over and I couldn’t help them enough as support. I found if we had a dps who was lacking that we basically wouldn’t have a chance to win. If we had low dmg dps characters then they’d have no chance. Definitely seen a lot of dps players struggle in my mmr with the changes. Some struggling to go over 1k dmg despite all these buffs. I’m guessing because the enemy does more dmg they don’t have a chance. But this is just observations from a support. I will say I found I gravitated to Ana more then other supports too. Since I can heal from a safer distance. Otherwise I’d just die too quickly

[@only-ren]

kind of good for bad players and console players ig, notice no one can really play non hitscan (that isn't sojourn) characters in anything under masters on console

[@atSlickBoiChris]

See people like you are the issue. Don’t support making things easier for bad players tell them to get better or get it in their heads that they are not good enough. Everyone isn’t elite

[@LiterallyPaulGeorge]

Lol this is so true, people just play soldier all day on console. These changes still seem trash tho

[@CZProductions]

Ya I went like 5 seasons without playing and came back since a friend wanted me to and just got bodied and flamed every match, so I think making it easier to hit shots will make me have more fun 😅 At the highest levels those dudes already hit most of their shots so I doubt you see much of a change there, the HP probably helps more

[@LiterallyPaulGeorge]

Tell ur friend to stop putting you in those kind of lobbies and get good in ur own rank

[@CZProductions]

@@LiterallyPaulGeorge Nah he's only Gold but since I was high diamond/low masters when I last played it still thinks I'm that good 😅 Problem is that I'm not even close to that level anymore so I just get destroyed every match since we're in diamond lobbies

[@eliher0464]

I feel like they should just make the hitboxes accurate. These new hitboxes make the game so much easier for aim characters. I main Hanzo and when I came back to this season after not playing for like a week, I got a 45 kill game, when before that was super rare for me. That was my 1st game. And Tracer is so much easier to hit now, it’s just way easier, but it would make more sense for them to just make the hitboxes hit how they’re supposed to. Maybe make some a little forgiving, like a little bit, but this is overkill. It’s so easy to hit shots now, it’s sad.

[@Shunbound]

I like that they're at least changing things. The OW that I loved wasn't so meta heavy. I hope changes can encourage more creativity.

[@GuloTsundora]

I think maybe they should have two "divisions" in the game, where the hitboxes are the bigger part they messed up with and the 'higher' division has the normal hitboxes and see what division has more players to test to see what is liked more or something.

[@AvatarKid4]

Kenzo is god right now 🤣

[@mcbiscit]

I haven't played overwatch since it became overwatch 2 and these videos just keep showing me why I'm glad I haven't gone back. The game i loved years ago doesn't exist anymore.

[@mfg587]

Almost like you have to have a baseline and then you can itterate on the balancing through a system called balance changes.

[@natedavis2944]

All I’ve noticed is as a tank I can’t play aggressive at all now even with my supports helping me. The healing reduction dps do now just kill me. Every game is a dps off now unless someone just feeds

[@firedrake110]

At high levels I imagine you won't be getting hit much more, since those people land their shots with a much higher consistency, so it's a much smaller % increase of connected shots

[@radiantcucumber]

It's a nerf to any character that benefits from a small hit box

[@engineergaming3830]

It's gonna help with balancing since the worst players might experience similar things to ones from higher ranks now

[@IIIGuntherIII]

It feels good to hit more shots, it feels bad to be hit by more shots. Theres a balance that needs to be maintained between things in the game being fun to play, and things in the game feeling good to play against. Its never really going to be fun to lose or get killed, obviously the player always wants to be on the winning side. So something that needs to be considered is how bad does it feel to play against these changes. Not only how good does it feel to play with them. We'll have to give it a bit more time to see how everything shakes out to truly see which way these changes lean.

[@cameronsalas2091]

In excited. But it could be bad

[@Wakeupnothingisreal]

This is going to bridge the gap for players like myself who main healer and a tank / savior role in the games. It’ll give me more comfort switching to dps when the team needs to switch up a strategy next game. Etc. I’m good at fps shooters. But in the higher ranks I cannot compete with those dps Players

[@ryozukojima]

Something to consider, we already know that things have to be balanced different for low and mid ranks compared to high ranks, or rather that the balance changes have different affects. If this kind of thing narrows the gap, it might be that nerfing, say Widow, will feel better maybe?

[@juanhidalgo12]

widow, zen, and logzo definitly feel way too easy rn

[@NBASFAN]

I'm wondering about if Ults will get any buff to the game. For example tracer pulse bombs or cass high noon, will it make it even harder to kill now?

[@joshp3446]

Tracer and Sombra two of the MOST balanced characters are going to be unstoppable

[@MusicalBlam]

Did you just call sombra.... AND tracer..... balanced???

[@joshp3446]

@@MusicalBlam I put emphasis on MOST so people could detect the sarcasm

[@azseal2669]

Nah. Lol. Ashe is gonna be OP and then will be sent out to the farm in 2 weeks flat.

[@Smellybeaver]

Answer is yes. Making it easier means more players which means more money. They're hoping anyway. All about accessibility for as many as possible. Balance and quality are secondary. Always.

[@lw7549]

Ngl this is the best season so far last season just felt bad. And I don’t think the bigger projectiles is affecting the game the way everyone thought (dps still don’t kill things) but it does seem support atleast has a chance to survive a sombra attack. Before there was exactly 0 chance you survived. (Diamond support)

[@honkman5542]

Game is gonna become less about mechanics and more about game sense and the application of strategy

[@meat3958]

Application of strategy and game sense is great and all, but when the bullets and projectiles are half the size of your hero’s hitbox that’s irrelevant. It is terribly cute that players think baby bumpers are going to make the game more strategy oriented; This will just become a “who gets picked by something that they didn’t see through the choke point first,” meta, because god forbid you have to be able to actually consistently hit a moving target in an fps game to be considered decent 💀🗿

[@wesleybentley1160]

They could make it so different ranks have different hitbox sizes

[@wildtacocat]

For me the bigger hit boxes and larger Hp stats have made me only play open queue, because that way if they have a widow hitting easy shots I can just swap to a tank and as well if I’m gonna shoot at dmg that essentially have the health of a tank I might as well just play against 3 tanks instead since they have less range and my dmg can be uncontested then

[@olivertb1990]

On thus patch, zen and kiri are sooo bad to deal with, especially as a tank player with an already large head hitbox

[@BTEdidnothingwrong]

Istg if I have to deal with MORE sombra after this, I'm going to cry

[@femtrapta5874]

I feel like in most cases it just opens up the game for newer players. Easier shots to hit means more of a focus on learning mechanics and hero interactions.

[@bridgettewade4167]

Hanzo projectiles are kinda crazy this season, feels like you're shooting tree trunks at people

[@helheimpanda]

Still small compared to supports like kiriko lol

[@syalin4433]

I'm more or less worried about junk rat more than anything

[@ArthurEverling]

And the issues regarding Support powercreep still have yet to be fully addressed.

[@scalamasta]

The dps passive was literally implemented for this very reason?

[@krausercruz2780]

As you said how much is that extra HP gonna help when your headshot hitbox is larger. That's the part that worries me more

[@DasOmen02]

Listening to this podcast rn and honestly i think it's the best Overwatch 2 episode so far in terms of fair arguments for either side. I have my concerns, but i have to admit that lowering the skill floor might be a good idea, rather than raising the skill ceiling like what the community's been discussing. I still think passives need to go, but maybe these global changes will be better than we thought?

[@evandurham8908]

Making hitboxes bigger is just going to serve to shaft the squishies like Tracer or Kiri. As much as I hate dying instantly to something, at least it used to be that it actually took real SKILL to pull off more than once or twice. Oh and the Orisa meta is just being pushed harder and harder, can we go back to having tanks that were more than walk forward slowly?

[@karynyuu7935]

I said id play 3 games of the new season to see if i would like these changes. I can honestly say this is the least fun ive had as a tank ever. I don't want to play this game. See you guys on Helldivers 2!

[@damianvaldez9390]

God damn brutal but very fair. Great comment honestly

[@josephreynolds2401]

Seems like Widow and Zenyatta are a little too crazy right now re:hitbox changes. Backline snipers should be the only class that has smaller bullets or they should have their dmg nerfed.

[@TheKrazyKrow]

Dude I am HORRIBLE at the game, aim being my worst thing. And even I disagree with it. I shouldn't have any chance of exiting bronze, EVER. If this goes into effect, I can likely make gold, or close. It just ain't natural bro.

[@creed8712]

I can feel it playing widow. It feels nasty because I know I’m not that good but I can pop off headshots easy now

[@shrekkek9396]

People with skill should trample over people with no skill. That's how it work.

[@HexCopper]

As a support main what hurts me the most is the reduced healing on top of the bigger hit boxes. Now when the tank thinks a 1v5 is a good idea I can’t heal enough to keep them up

[@nelsongodoy5101]

I actually see this from the other way. If there isn't as huge a disparity in how many players can play a character well and how good the character is optimally, then we can see more balance passes aimed at characters who's oppressiveness is only at the highest level, like widow sojourn, and doom. Bringing up baseline effectiveness for those characters while bringing their ceilings slightly down can be good for players at all levels

[@grinchiestgrinch7289]

Im sorry but the hanzo nerf is wild i didnt need an accuracy buff i need my damn scatter arrow back

[@WilliamHowardTaft27]

Can confirm, people hate widow A LOT more, i play widow and i get cursed out in match text chat almost every game

[@Myselfsama]

@flatstwo this is raising the skill floor not lowering it. High skill floor means high value relative to lower skill (thus, at the floor of skill, you still provide a lot of value, think mei or torb / moira etc). Low skill floor would mean, low value relative to low skill (at the floor of skill, you bring nothing of value, Genji for example)

[@racedude66]

I have semi bad aim and yet i can still hit most of my shots so making, projectiles bigger just seems kinda dumb to me, the hp increase will either be a net lose and break even in my best guess but still.

[@jonathanguilliams9293]

They need to make widows hurtbox smaller or get rid of her one shot. Can’t have both. It doesn’t work

[@captainfungi8312]

I mean, I don't think this change will lower the skill ceiling per se. I view this more as they are placing more value into other skills such as knowing how to postion and when to engage. But it is hard to say how this will actually play out across all the ranks.

[@Okina-Kev]

I refuse to ignore how the easy roads are being paved in comp gaming overall and people have relied on the “if everything and everyone is busted or easy then whats the problem” argument. Its not fun with easy random stupidness happening all the time. For example immortal abilities and crisscrossing mechanics.

[@EmblemCrossing]

This change just made everything feel less satisfying for me. My aim was already decent enough before. Now when I'm popping off and hitting my shots, it doesn't feel like I'm playing well, it just feels like the game is taking pity on me and giving me free shots.

[@brady4life641]

fato

[@AaronMichaelLong]

What a bullshit take. Hitscan heroes like Widow and McCreep *SHOULD* be at the top of the ranks, they're the absolutely most mechanically demanding characters in the game. Why should millions of Gold and Plat players have to eat shit from spud-friendly heroes, just so that they'll be made artificially relevant at the highest levels of play?

[@LiterallyPaulGeorge]

Aim intensive sure, Cree is one of the easiest characters in the game tho. And Widow is so simple on her maps

[@AaronMichaelLong]

@@LiterallyPaulGeorge Utter fiction. At Platinum, the highest winrate Heroes are Symmetra, Brigitte, Mauga, & Torb. The highest pick-rate Heroes are Mercy, Ana, Moira. If you exclude Heals and Tanks, you get Genji, Soldier, and Hanzo for pick rate, and Sym, Torb, and Reaper for win rate. For Win rate, at Plat, Widow is *DEAD LAST*, followed closely by McCreep. Their pick rate is still high because in spite of sucking balls, theyr'e still phenomenally popular. So, why not actually let people in Plat actually play the heroes they want to, and have a prayer of winning?

[@dwk_1987]

I don’t think it would be very difficult to have a scaling ratio depending on the rank… maybe reduce the buffs for higher ranks?

[@charlesgru8978]

extra health and the "you gonna get hit a lot more" projectile increase is a zero net gain summation. The only thing this is accomplishing it making the game more annoying.

[@enegar2536]

Will Reaper get a buff because his projectiles are bigger or a really big nerf because he still has a dumb spread against more tanky sticks like Kiriko ?

[@zeik27]

This is great for console players, comp players unknown. Could go either way

[@RD-um9dy]

I think the global projectile size increase was a mistake

[@mr.harrow3405]

They're just trying to keep the game dynamic, because we tend to exploit everything we can to stay safe and deal damage properly. More health but bigger hitbox means we'll have the feeling lore things happens. Remember it's a free to play game now, they try to hook people, not to increase gameplay or quality.. otherwise they would've left some details or done the work correctly. Like orisz you can now only preview the Spear, and every skins appart from the duck and the last season ones, it's always the same, but not the gun.. it's Like if we could only preview zen's hands and not the projectiles.

[@Ruosteinenknight]

So far, not really change there: bad widows are still bad. I've noticed that they might get more kills, than they used to....but that really seems to be 5-6 kills instead of 0-2. And interesting part is that usually Widows actually do half of dps than the other dps/tank players, which makes me think that they're really just finishing of already low hp enemies. Overrall, I don't really think Widows are that much of problem, since this season is all about focus firing and flanking is becoming more niche. Everytime I lose the game, it's pretty much the same: they stayed together and focused fire better than we did.

[@johannesweber8835]

Nah, i can tell you from experience that it doesn’t matter. You can snipe both enemy healers and a dps in less than 10 seconds and your team is still going to manage to loose the teamfight.

[@special_k_kman]

This new overaatch update from what I can see is like getting away increase because of inflation. They give you more money because they think it'll help but you basically stay exactly where you are because now everything is more expensive

[@MrPainterbob]

Yeah lets continue to make the game easier jesus christ

[@Antonio-ys5zd]

Is there a way to shrink the shots as you climb the ranks?

[@captainfungi8312]

I don't think they would ever do rank specific changes becuse it would be to confusing and feel terrible at times. For example, if you keep bouncing between ranks, the constant back and forth changing of your projectile size would be annoying since your shots won't feel consistent. Furthermore, it would also be infuriating fighting and losing to enemies that are lower rank then you since there is the knowledge that there shots were easier to hit then yours.

[@Loki24369]

What would these changes look like if it was all reversed? Say we started with this much health and bullet sizes then they said "hey we're gonna nerf everything" what would the community say then? I'm still unsure how i feel about this patch. At the very least I'm glad they finally buffed Lucios boop

[@-Wattson-]

How about these changes become mode specific so comp doesn’t loose the skill division it’s intended to have?

[@phillipd33znuts]

Im a terrible widow. Im great at any other dps but widow. We cant all be great at everything, just find your class and roll with it.

[@oWarCloudo]

S9 is a mess currently

[@geoff-huang]

Lowering the skill floor for aim will increase the skill floor for game knowledge and game sense.

[@atSlickBoiChris]

See Flat say making people “FEEL” like they’re doing something is the problem with the world trying to make everyone feel special when they aren’t. Forget this placebo bullshit Blizzard and tell the metal ranks they’re not that good and to get good. The skill/game sense ceiling in Overwatch 1 years 1-4 or 5 was pretty large and I miss it. Bronze widow need to play like a bronze widow. I feel bad for masters and up because widow, Cree and soldier are gonna be a major problem.

[@BalkanGames]

The projectile-size increase isn't about making the game easier. It's about making it more consistent. In one of the recent blog posts, they said they don't want to achieve more consistency by decreasing everyone's movement acceleration. After all, if they did, the game would be much easier AND it would feel too different. With slightly larger projectiles, the game will feel the same and only be slightly easier.

[@truckmuncher8998]

The issue with consistency would be fixed by fixing server issues other than that it’s just making players with inconsistent aim able to hit more shots because it’s easier to aim

[@BalkanGames]

@@truckmuncher8998 Servers are a separate issue (if it all). I'm not sure which tick rate they use (I believe it's 64 ticks per second, which is already pretty great), but even a tick rate of 128 per second (à la Valorant) doesn't make aiming easier and/or more consistent. All it does is make packet losses less of an issue. Overwatch's hitbox registration "feels" inconsistent because 1. heroes can change the direction they move in almost instantly, or without slowing down for that matter, 2. plenty of heroes have small hitboxes and 3. there are a lot of relatively unpredictable/fast movement abilities in the game.

[@kingauther7812]

Did flats forget about the hp buffs

[@BalkanGames]

@@kingauther7812 He forgets about a lot of things.

[@soviexe]

@@BalkanGames hitreg is tied to network so, not really a separate issue. also, that is not how tick rate works at all. the higher the tick rate, the more consistent it feels. 64tick is bottom of the barrel in todays world too. CSGO rolled out 64 tick servers in 2013. 128 should be the standard. character speed/bad hitbox reg is all tied to the server, you hit on client, but server doesn't reg. hence why making hitboxes bigger won't fix this issue. it just makes the game a little easier & you'll notice more shots not registering lol.

[@RhysLloyd2611]

I literally just came across a edater couple of Widow and Mercy on the enemy team, the Widow kept hitting half charged flicks because the damage boost compensated, completely shut me down on Reaper, Bastion and Genji. Had to switch to Hanzo and counter snipe, Widow is a menace that's too easy to wield already, not looking forward to easier shots