A2A Simulations Piper PA28 Cherokee Review for FSX / P3D

[@flightsim481]

Hope you folks enjoy this :-)

[@MagicAyrtonforever]

Thanks for posting.. very professional :)

[@flightsim481]

No problem, glad you enjoyed it.

[@zachlang1982]

Those graphics and sounds. DAYYUUMMM!!!

[@ParkerUAS]

Another great review. Having trained in a Cherokee 160 and now flying an Arrow IV when the wallet allows, I got the A2A Cherokee the day they released it and have flown the heck out of it (replaced the starter and left mag already). I've really fallen in love with this plane and agree that this is as close to flying/owning the real aircraft as you can get on a PC. I still find little nuances and features nearly every flight.

[@flightsim481]

I have spent more time in Cessnas and Da40's and I prefer the Pa28 to both. The Cessna's never really felt right for me and the Da40 is less about flying and more about being able to use the Garmin G1000. I haven't flown for 4 years due to losing my medical but am looking to get back in the air next week, ironically in a Pa28!

[@peterwentworth9181]

Nice video, l have been thinking of getting the A2A piper for a bit, as it will bring back memories of a flying lesson l had in a piper warrior from Jersey over the D day beaches in Normandy.

[@flightsim481]

Thanks. Sounds like an awesome place to have a lesson.

[@crikycrocky]

That has got to be the best review of a sim aircraft I have ever seen! Many thanks for posting. Informative, educational and covered all the bases, well done. I have the Flight club version and really like it but it looks like I am going to have to upgrade to this one.

[@flightsim481]

Thanks for the kind words. The difference between this one and Flight Club is like night and day.

[@Dkentflyer]

What a brilliant video, Its amazing that these things can be simulated in FSX, loved the phrase "lets rock" style throttle. Your review was excellent. I have just bought my first A2A (C182) and hope its similar to this.

[@flightsim481]

Thanks for the kind words. My understanding, although I have yet to try it, is that the 182 is better yet, with more complex engine systems regarding constant speed prop.

[@Dkentflyer]

flightsim481 Sounds like I am in for a fun time :)

[@danweeks8026]

I appreciate this video because it is so helpful to me as one who is trying to learn aviation on his own. This video is as good or better than many whose primary objective is flight instruction. Adverse yaw is the kind of counterintuitive thing that can be mysterious and daunting to us new students. Thanks

[@CaptainBiscuit1980]

Thanks for sharing your great videos. Really appreciate the time and detail you put into them. As good as any other Flight Sim youtuber.

[@flightsim481]

Thanks. That's quite a complement :-)

[@JanWS]

Fantastic video!! The best one I have come across so far in terms of explaining and showing what this plane is all about. I actually have had this plane since it was released and clocked about 100 hours in it. Then i started to mess around with X-plane and I havent flown in quite a while. But im gonna roll it out of the hanger now and take it for a spin. Thanks for sharing :)

[@flightsim481]

Glad you enjoyed it. It is a marvellous plane :-)

[@richpaul8132]

Outstanding! I picked up quite a bit from that video. Things that I always had a degree of doubt in my understanding of them. Little things like switching wing fuel tanks about every half hour, what the EGT gauge was really all about, etc.. I know I could always have looked these things up and I did eventually plan to do that. However, like so many things, it's a matter of time and opportunity mixed with remembering, (at that moment), just what it was I wanted to find out! lol. Great video. Rich

[@bobhatcher5505]

Thoroughly enjoyed that, great stuff, thanks!

[@thetrooper1950]

I really enjoyed this review as I did your C182 review. Very well done! I especially appreciate your real world pilot input. Sadly, you'll be causing me to spend more money lol!!

[@flightsim481]

Thanks very much. although if you can pass on my apologies to your wallet, I would be grateful ;-)

[@padufs]

Very Helpful ! I love the accent !! Very well done, explanations etc... I learned in a warrior 161

[@gimmietheprize]

Great review, great plane!

[@flightsim481]

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it :-)

[@MrSameeg]

Another Great vid keep em comin

[@flightsim481]

Thanks. I've got some more planned and waiting in the wings.

[@flightsim481]

Will do :-)

[@IesApac]

Excellent work there, thanks for puttnig this up, very educatoinal

[@flightsim481]

Glad you enjoyed it.

[@bill1949wt]

Really useful stuff here, and so naturally presented. Many thanks. Just a query (I'm pretty new to this): I see that you have menu headings for 'Add-ons' and 'FS Recorder'. How did you get these to appear?

[@raxnor]

Great and detailed video Thank you

[@flightsim481]

Thanks for your support :-)

[@Piperdakota71l]

Whoops...sorry you're not Gerry...again great review!!!

[@majowa83]

Nice review!

[@flightsim481]

Thanks

[@SirSavesALot1977]

Fantastic review! I've known for weeks now that this will be my next payware aircraft (sorry that I'm late to the party). It seems so similar to the Comanche, yet so different. And I really love the design of the glossy panel and the sharpness and typography of the instruments! (Cessna cockpits feels so 2D/flat compared to Piper IMHO.) It's such a beautiful aircraft.

[@flightsim481]

+Sir SavesALot Thanks :-) I have to say that A2A's GA aircraft are superb both in terms of function, but also atmosphere.

[@SamCooper373]

Really nice video, thanks!! :D

[@flightsim481]

Thanks for the support :-)

[@Haunteddookie]

Great video! Will you be testing any fast jets in the future?

[@rumco]

Excellent video, thank you.

[@gerryortiz7276]

Mixture rich before the run up check mate! Great video though I really picked up a lot of info from these overall. Idk if you already do but I could see you making a whole private, instrument, and commercial tutorial using this aircraft or the 172 for private lessons and instrument lessons and the PA-28-200 for commercial. I would certainly pay.

[@flightsim481]

Thanks for the support Gerry. The mixture was a slip on my part. If I could find the time, I would consider doing the doing more of the tutorials side of things although I do feel that my stuff would need to be a little bit more professional in terms of presentation before I would consider people paying for it. Thanks for the kind words though :-)

[@AxCYeR]

Great video! Think I should get myself the PA28 as a kind of easy addition to the Skylane :D Do you recommend FTX Global? Looks really nice indeed. I'm paused at 37:00 right now and it looks pretty realistic I must say, wow.

[@AxCYeR]

Just watched your video where you compare FTX Global and England ... well I'm certainly going for the pure England one then. Looks great.

[@flightsim481]

AxCYeR Yes it looks great, but if you fly a lot beyond the UK Global is more useful. However, Global is best with all 3 sets (base, vector and open land class) but very expensive. But just to fet England, Wales and Scotland is also very expensive.

[@michaelparekh5234]

Awesome review! It is clear that you have a deep understanding of the aircraft. Out of all of A2As aircraft, which one would you recommend? Also is the scenery just the ORBX FTX Global Base package?

[@flightsim481]

+GeminiJets ORD Thanks for the kind words. The scenery is FTX England in this case. As for aircraft, you can't really go wrong with their GA aircraft, but my favourite is the C182.

[@chip58123]

Thank you for posting this video for the Cherokee. One question that I have is I noticed that when you where flying I believe you said you did hands off Am I correct that you stayed straight and level? I just recently purchase this plane from A2A and hands off it has a good bit of roll. I have all the realism sliders to the right just like the manual suggest. Is the roll just the tork of the plane or is there a setting I need to change?

[@flightsim481]

***** Hi, yes you are correct that the key factor affecting the straight and level element is the torque from the engine. There is also an element of the descending prop blade generating more thrust than the up going one generating an offset thrust line. In theory that would generate yaw, and thus roll through the secondary effect of yaw. But that is normally designed out through the engine being installed at a slight angle. So yes, the engine torque does cause roll. However, you can use the secondary effect of yaw, which is roll to counter the yaw. In fact, in many light aircraft, you can steer and keep wings level using just the rudder pedals without use of the yoke at all. Obviously you may well have side-slip, and thus your ground track would probably not match your heading. So there is no change to make if you use rudder. Hope that helps. An interesting flight to look at is the Sioux City crash involving a DC-10 - United Airlines flight 232, which lost most of it's flying controls. It's amazing to see just how few controls can be used to fly an aircraft.

[@Piperdakota71l]

Gerry...nicely done. Am a GA pilot based in NY Had a 180 before a dust devil destroyed it. Found your review very informative and helpful as I just purchased the A2A Piper Cherokee but wanted to get some "ground school" under my belt. May I ask what scenery you are running? It really made the flight that much more realistic. Thanks Mike G

[@bobhatcher5505]

Great stuff, thanks!

[@ianhillsdon1619]

Great video thank you - you are obviously an accomplished pilot - which scenery package are you using please?

[@flightsim481]

Thanks for the kind words. Although I got my commercial licences, I am not by any means an accomplished pilot. In my opinion, there is a difference between being capable and accomplished. I was fortunate that I did some pilot training in the military who's scope and manoeuvres obviously goes far beyond civil training. With the Navy I flew with some truly exceptional people, and their skills are humbling in the extreme. The scenery is FTX Global with Rex 4 textures although I have since updated to FTX England for which I have a review coming soon :-) Indeed, the airfield in this video, Fenland, is going to be looked at more closely as a comparison.

[@ianhillsdon1619]

Thanks for responding - any chance of a tutorial on landing the Cherokee, really struggling with approach and smooth landings Thanks again very well presented.

[@flightsim481]

Ian Hillsdon I've got a video to edit for FTX England and then I'll try to look at a video for it. :-)

[@ianhillsdon1619]

Thanks

[@ZZstaff]

I think you forgot to raise flaps after take-off and to mention setting the heading indicator, as you know if it is not set as part of pre-flight a pilot, especially a student pilot in a real aircraft, can get lost. I am a little surprised if A2A does not set the heading indicator to a random direction as would be the case in a real aircraft. .... I began flying 40 years ago and flew single engine Pipers quite a bit and preferred the Warrior over the earlier "Hershey bar" wing as represented in this video. I flew a Piper Arrow III to train for my commercial rating, unfortunately, I cannot remember what I flew for my instrument rating, possibly a Piper Warrior. .... I wish A2A produced later model Warriors, Arrows and twin engine aircraft. .... Great job on the video.

[@MrCobolman-FSPro]

Another great video! Thanks. I was interested particular in the stability during a small turn. According to my flying training books, the side effect of roll is yaw. Unchecked, the aircraft is supposed to turn tighter into itself, possibly initiating a spin. However, with the A2A Cessna 172, this just doesn't happen. It slowly unwinds itself to a level state. Is it the same with the Cherokee?

[@flightsim481]

Its not generally called a side effect because that implies unwanted. The more recognised term is that the secondary effect of roll is yaw. Likewise the secondary effect of a yaw is roll. We then get into the realms of dynamic stability and most general aviation generally have good stability particularly in pitch and yaw. Often that stability means that secondary effects can be less than dramatic. As an example, you can fly an aircraft without using ailerons or elevator. By yawing with the rudder, you can vary roll and direction of flight whilst the couple between drag and throttle can be used not only to control speed but also rate of climb and descent. Indeed, many light aircraft pilots have spent time flying with just their feet whilst folding their charts in the confined spaces of a cockpit. Mild unchecked roll generally resolves itself due to the stability of simple aircraft. However, a significant disturbance eg. 30 degrees or more should cause the aircraft to sideslip. The air hitting the rudder and tail side on causes the yaw into the direction of turn, which results in more roll, more yaw, more roll and so on. However, an aircraft will then generally enter a spiral dive. A spiral dive is steeply nose down with roll and rapidly increasing airspeed and very high rate of descent. However, the aircraft hasn't generally lost airflow over any control surfaces so the pilot still has all controls available and they operate in the normal sense. A spin is different because the aircraft has one or more flying surfaces which have disturbed or absent airflow over them meaning that controls do not always respond to a pilots inputs in the normal manner. Generally characterised by high rate of descent and yaw. However some aircraft adopt a nose down spin, others a flat spin profile and some vary in nose attitude occasionally including a nose attitude above the horizon. Airspeed is not always high and often there can be airframe buffeting. Pilots must be able to tell the difference because the recovery actions are different and use of ailerons in a spin can make it much worse. A 172 and Pa28 have good stability so to best see the effects have all realism settings set to most realistic, put a significant roll input in and then let go of the stick and watch what happens. The caveat is that not all aircraft follow the same rules.

[@MrCobolman-FSPro]

Thanks for the detailed reply! I agree with everything you've said, which accords with Pooleys. However, trying to get this response in FSX (and XPlane 10) has proved impossible. Here's what I do: I take either the standard 172 or A2A 172 up to a safe height, fly straight and level and trim. I then bank over, using ailerons only, to 60 degrees plus before centralizing the ailerons. The initial behaviour is as expected, the aircraft dives. But then it unwinds the turn and climbs out with no input from me. This is true whether I bank to the left or the right. (nb: A 60 degree uncoordinated bank to the left in the standard 172 exhibits bizarre initial behaviour. First, it turns right! ). I've also tried doing this with a 90 degree bank. Same outcome. I get the same response in XPlane10, even with its blade approach to aerodynamic effects. I'd be interested to know whether you get any different response. I had been going to produce a series of videos that follow through the standard flying lessons in Pooleys. However, the first lesson covers the further effect of aileron and I just can't model it so that series of videos has stopped before they've even begun :)

[@flightsim481]

MrCobolman I get the same response. I suspect that whilst Pooleys (and most flight manuals for that matter) describes the theoretical process, aircraft designers are cunning in trying to avoid such problems through design and I can't recall ever having an incident where I've nearly gone into a spiral dive. I've nearly stalled, nearly overshot a runway, worried about fuel, flown in some borderline conditions, bounced an aircraft or two etc...but never thought 'oh crap, I'm entering a spiral dive'. Most GA aircraft have strong tendency towards good dynamic stability and most instructors (and examiners) will use unusual attitudes training to deliberately place the aircraft into a spiral dive. Design features such as dihedral often remove some of the less desirable aspects and thus reduce the probability of events such as a spiral dive. For example, differential ailerons minimise adverse yaw, whilst dihedral gives good stability in terms of roll. As I understand it, the aircraft rolls, a side slip develops, however, the dihedral results in the low wing generating more lift, preventing further roll and thus an increase in yaw. The most common cause of a spiral dive is mishandling by a pilot, commonly through disorientation in IMC weather conditions. In a simple light aircraft, it would take sufficiently long to develop in such that it would be a particularly poor pilot not to notice a problem. It should be noted of course that both X-Plane and FSX run on a home computer and don't use the vast computational powers available to real world aircraft designers and thus there will be limitations. Whilst the textbooks are correct theory wise and in real life the secondary effects are very visible, a propensity for an aircraft to naturally enter a spiral dive in a modern 'training' aircraft is I would argue quite low. I guess my considered opinion is that just because it's in a textbook, doesn't mean all aircraft exhibit that quality to the same extent, and that a home PC is always going to fall short of the real thing no matter how well programmed.

[@MrCobolman-FSPro]

flightsim481 Thanks. You've helped remind me of the intrinsic safety of training aircraft. I recall that my instructors never wanted to spin the Cessna 152 I trained in (even though they had an aerobatic model) Likewise, my instructors with the Cherokee knew that getting an unintended spin was, to all practical purposes, impossible. One cherokee instructor however, decided to rise to the challenge (without telling me, I hasten to add). We were doing an IMC lesson after I passed my PPL and he wanted to show a stall. He climbed to a safe altitude, stalled the plane and then booted in a lot of rudder to force a spin. Bit of a shock when you're not prepared but a salutary lesson in how easily things can go wrong.

[@dozonator_3114]

Amazing video! Helped alot! Btw, what is the scenery you are using + hod do you get that clouds?

[@flightsim481]

+NoPlanesNoLife Thanks. It's a long time since I made this video but if I recall correctly it's FTX England scenery with REX Softclouds. Thanks for the support, Rich :-)

[@dozonator_3114]

I mean wich airport are you in ;)

[@dozonator_3114]

Oh, really fast reply. Active youtubers that acually respond to their fans is what we want :) But i have a little problem here. I got REX Soft Clouds, and REX 4 (tested both). But still i don't get clouds that covers the sky. The distance between the clouds is extremely long away, and almost every cloud look the same. extremely unrealisctic... :(

[@lee4318]

hiya luv your vids. are you using rex clouds? they look fantastic. i have rex 4+soft clouds but have never had any difference of cloud colour only same white type colour....?

[@flightsim481]

lee thornton Thanks for the kind remarks. Yes I use REX 4 textures. I just chose one of the default colour palates. It's quite a while since I made this video, so I'm not sure exactly what I had set up.

[@josef733]

Are A2A mostly doing general aviation/ trainers? Are they the best at it?

[@andy4b767]

I bought the C172 from A2A which was an amazing aircraft. I was considering purchasing the next GA aircraft and I am confused which one to buy. What are your opinions on that?

[@jamescrew6288]

Andrew Ayad the Comanche is incredible

[@Vervoorts]

Which scenery is that? Orbx england? Nice vid!

[@flightsim481]

+Max V Thanks, yes it's FTX England from ORBX

[@MrAwsome1991]

I got a problem with me cherokke. It constantly steers to the right. It's not a trimming failure but more of a software error. It steers to the right so much that I cant steer against it and it crashes. You know any solution?

[@greencatish]

How doe it handle compared with the one that comes with FSX gold?

[@BoatingBiker]

at 46:13 pre stall checklist would have reminded you that you have been flying with two stages of flap since take off. Its a good video so far as describing the A2A PA 28 goes but you could sharpen up a bit on procedure. Sorry mate but it got really irritating.

[@flightsim481]

+David Gough Hi David, yes you are quite right I shouldn't have missed the flaps.

[@GamingNinjaSheep]

Is the ADF/NDB dial/compass thing supposed to say 13 instead of 12 on it? If you look at it closely and count up from the 0 heading and where it should say 12 it says 13, this really bugs me, is it a mistake?

[@flightsim481]

GamingNinjaSheep Lol. awesome spot! I have to say I had never noticed it. Yes you are quite right, it should say 12.

[@GamingNinjaSheep]

flightsim481 haha, thought so, it completely screwed up my navigation since I don't like to fly with the GPS, no problem now that I know it's there but it still bugs me.

[@flightsim481]

GamingNinjaSheep I'm done for now that you've pointed it out. Good to hear there are others who don't use the GPS ;-)

[@harrytudor1588]

I'm looking at getting an A2A aircraft and I can't decide between the Comanche or the cherokee. Can anyone help?

[@ThePerfectOrbit]

You're the Dog's Danglies. Keep the Vids coming ;) Liked and Subscribed.

[@flightsim481]

Thanks for the support.

[@flightsim481]

Oliver Warren, KZbin won't let me reply to you directly. I did do a video reviewing Dino Cattaneo's Freeware T45 Goshawk and have the Just Flight Canerra to look at. I'll see if my bank balance lets me do more in the future ;-)

[@Haunteddookie]

Cheers:) Dino Catteneo's f14 and f35 are also great!

[@flightsim481]

***** I have the F14. If I get a chance, I'll put soomething on my channel.

[@romulormachado]

This plane dont have auto pilot?

[@flightsim481]

+Romulo M Hi, it does have an autopilot but it's a very old style of autopilot. The controls are on the yoke and the turn co-ordinator but it's hard to explain so the best thing is to watch this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y2qZd56HbbGDa5I Hope that helps, Rich

[@romulormachado]

+flightsim481 I had found found before u respond. But I wanted to thank you for your answer! Your video was of great help to learn other things about the plane. Thank you again! :D

[@flightsim481]

Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for your support :-)

[@romulormachado]

+flightsim481 Mate, Could you tell me what addons you're using in this video? At times I seemed to see the shadow of the trees on the ground! This is incredible!!!! You can reveal to me your secret of this amazing visual to your FSX?

[@flightsim481]

+Romulo M I'm afraid there is no secret. The specs of my computer are in the description and it was FSX Steam edition with the only add ons beng FTX England and REX Textures.

[@BoatingBiker]

What do you mean you have no idea what the wind is? Sort it out mate!

[@jonskowitz]

Why does your copy of FSX look brilliant and my copy looks like an ass made of lego?

[@rainerziehtkatapultenachgo9001]

Well because he has a shitdown of Addons, like ORBX, Landclasses, Vectors, Groundtextures, Mesh layers. addon scenery and addon planes, thats why

[@flightsim481]

The key add on is FTX England from ORBX, REX Softclouds and then some UK2000 airports. FTX England is an ORBX region and is stand alone so includes it's own Mesh, Vectors, Landclass etc. Great if you onlt want to fly in England, If you want to fly anywhere else, it will still have default scenery unless you buy those areas as well and doing so can become very, very expensive. Sadly, making FSX look good costs. A key bit is to read the manuals with scenery products because the manuals often specify mesh resolutions etc. needed for the best appearance or performance and they look appalling if you can't meet the recommended settings (note NOT the minimum but recommended settings). However, meeting their recommended settings can often need quite a powerful PC, particularly if you are running lots of applications in the background. I don't dare to work out how much money I have given ORBX over the years just to make my sim pretty and when you need 4 products just to cover the UK, not including high detail airports, it becomes scary expensive. Likewise, good add on aircraft, such as this one, have amazing visual modelling compared to default aircraft but at a cost. It doesn't matter how good a computer you have, good add on's look good, bad one's don't. The caveat is that some amazing people such as Dino Cattaneo produce stunning freeware which look every bit as good as the more expensive payware.

[@jonskowitz]

Thanks, I kind of figured that. It probably doesn't help that the "Max Graphics Setting" defaults to something like 800x600 or something equally absurd, I don't remember. It looks better now that I have the native resolution set.

[@rainerziehtkatapultenachgo9001]

jonskowitz You should defintely have a look at FTX Sir ... it sounds expensive, i men its 100bucks for the extension but youll get absolutely almost photorealestic envoirements world wide ... and ORBX ofc ..