FLUENT WELSH SPEAKER TRIES DUOLINGO -

[@InstaSim6]

As I have had quite a few comments about this I just wanted to issue a correction/clarification: To everyone who's commenting about the "Nenfwd" and "To" point made in the video, this was a mistake on my part and I fully put my hands up to this. At the time of recording, I had personally never heard the word "Nenfwd" ever being taught or used to mean "Ceiling", although after uploading the video I did look into it and found that, in this case, Duolingo is correct and I was incorrect. In fairness, everyone just used "To" to mean both "Roof" and "Ceiling" so I naturally, and incorrectly, assumed it was just one of the many North-South differences in Welsh. Despite this, "To" is often used to mean "Ceiling", as is the case sometimes in English where people say "Roof" instead of "Ceiling", although it was my mistake and I fully own up to that 🙂

[@kaiserflxme]

Maybe you speak a different dialect of Welsh

[@norifromreallife-di7hi120]

yea

[@Archie-kh5ee]

I’m from south west wales 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 and I speak correctly I dweud sain dda at fe

[@HelenThomas68]

This is hilarious. I've been doing duolingo for a while now much to the amusement of my 79 year old North Welsh mother, who doesn't seem to recognise half of it. Glad it's not just us who are getting confused.

[@cymro6537]

So,...if your mother is a fluent speaker - and your'e on Dualingo -why hadn't your mother taught you Welsh in the first place.... 🤔

[@HelenThomas68]

@@cymro6537 Good question. I was born and brought up in England and my Dad, despite being from South Wales, wasn't a Welsh speaker. My older sister spent a lot of her early years being looked after by our Nain and Taid and she spoke quite a bit of Welsh but sadly lost it when she got older and lived in England although she never lost her ability to understand it, which was strange. I always had a few phrases and grew up hearing Welsh spoken when we went back there, so I do have the advantage of being able to make all the sounds. I think duolingo has a lot of South Wales Welsh, understandably, but I find it a bit frustrating as my Mum hasn't heard a lot of the words and phrases that they use. I suppose that's just the nature of regional dialects.

[@cymro6537]

@@HelenThomas68 Pob lwc yn dysgu'r Gymraeg 😊👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

[@HelenThomas68]

@@cymro6537 Diolch yn fawr!

[@Bernaren60]

​@@cymro6537pob lwc i chi hefyd

[@viscalaterra1973]

"Nyrs 'dych chi?" "This is completely wrong, that's even worse". - It really isn't wrong. It's a perfectly normal way of asking whether somebody is a nurse or not. "The Welsh word for ceiling is to" - wrong, it's nenfwd. "To" is roof. South Welsh is correct Welsh. North Welsh is correct Welsh. We all speak correctly. "Dych" is fine. It's just a shortened version of 'ydych'. It's also the one taught to learners across the country. "Gyda" is not wrong. It is normative Welsh. "Efo" is used solely in the north, "gyda" is used in formal written Welsh across the country. This guy speaks Welsh, but he's making a mountain out of a molehill and saying that different ways of saying this are wrong, when they frankly aren't.

[@InstaSim6]

First and foremost, this video was made purely for entertainment purposes. I just wanted to make a fun video about something I'd heard a lot about and give my perspective to it. But to address the points you've made: "Nyrs 'dych chi?" is a very informal way of asking if someone is a nurse, and the structure of the question itself is incorrect. I've personally never heard anyone asking questions in this way. "Ydych chi'n Nyrs Ysgol?" is how the question should be written, how you say "Ydych" at the beginning depends on context. Whether you say it as "dych" or "dach" is really irrelevant, however it is always written as "Ydych". The "Nenfwd" vs "To" issue is one I've answered many times already and it was a mistake on my part and I will hold my hands up to that. However my point was that I had personally never heard the word "Nenfwd" before, and even so "To" is often used to mean "Ceiling" in the same was as in English where people sometimes just say "Roof". I did look this up after the video went up though and I will accept this as my own mistake. "Dych" is perfectly fine when speaking. I say "Dach" a lot when I'm talking to people, but the written form is "Ydych". Unless it's in a script or a spoken piece, it should never be written as "Dych" or "Dach". "Gyda" is incorrect in the context of where it was used. "Oes gyda'r athro geiriadur?", or "Oes geiriadur gyda'r athro" as is taught on Duolingo, is very much incorrect and it is the biggest peeve I have about South Wales Welsh. "Gyda" and "Hefo" are the Welsh words for "With" (Gyda being the formal). "Oes gan yr athro eiriadur?" is how that question is meant to be asked and "Oes mae ganddo fo un da" is the answer. "Gan" being the verb "To have". I'm not saying different ways of saying things are wrong, and in fairness the North vs South stuff is more for fun than anything serious (and I would be more than happy for someone from the South to make the same jokes back about North Wales Welsh), although there are certain things in the Duolingo course which are actively incorrect ways of speaking Welsh. I want more people to learn Welsh as it's a beautiful language, but if people are going to speak it in a way that nobody will understand it's not exactly very helpful.

[@wayneseex1595]

@@InstaSim6 You do seem to me very much to be making a mountain out of a molehill, not to mention that - as you have admitted - you are incorrect about some things yourself.

[@InstaSim6]

@@wayneseex1595 It very much may well be making a mountain out of a molehill, but I reiterate the point that the video itself is purely for entertainment. I wanted to give the Duolingo course a try, and from that footage I put together a video of what I considered to be the best bits, edited in a way to entertain. Mistakes are very much just part and parcel of the process with unscripted live audio, but I will own up to that. I appreciate the debate that's come from this as I've seen very valid points from both sides on this video, but the bottom line is this video was purely made for entertainment purposes and nothing more or less 🙂

[@myaisheree]

@@wayneseex1595 shut up

[@magmahead923]

Alternative title: Northwalean man rages about south wales for 4 minutes straight

[@InstaSim6]

Pretty much, but it is just entertainment and I'd be more than happy for a South Walian to rage back for 4 minutes if they wished 🙂

[@gandolfthorstefn1780]

If I ever fly on a Welsh airline I'll make sure both pilots are from the same town or city.😄🛬🔥😵

[@DWbo-r7v]

Young North Walians are sounding more anglicised nowadays compared to when I was a kid

[@wolvesofthevoid1439]

both north and south welsh is correct, just think of them as two different dialects i guess.

[@Indigo24-y7y]

Fluent lol. This person isn’t fluent, just ignorant. For people who are not familiar with the culture of Cymru, a lot of native speakers regard *their* way as the *only* way to speak Welsh and that everyone else is *wrong* when in actual fact they are regional dialects. And it’s embarrassing that someone claiming to be fluent is so bad at their own language. Leaving aside ‘to’ as he has apologised about that. ‘dych’ is not wrong. It’s an abbreviation for rydych/dydych/ or in this case ydych. The reason why dych is used is because in spoken Welsh the word is often abbreviated to ‘dych’ - other alternatives are available such as ‘dach’. People want to speak Cymraeg like the natives and learning sentence structure and the correct yes/no is far more important. The rest comes later. The nurse question isn’t wrong. It’s an *emphatic* question. ‘Nyrs wyt ti?’ ‘Nage meddyg ‘dw i’ nurse are you? No, doctor I am. Emphatic sentences / questions are common in Welsh… not so much in English. Pwy wyt ti? Laura dw i. Who are you? Laura I am. Laura wyt ti? Laura are you? Gyda… gyda isn’t wrong lol. Nor is it pronounced like that either lol. The sentence is correct. “Oes llyfr ‘da ti?” Literally ‘is there a book with you?’ ‘Oes llyfr gyda’r athro? Is there a book with the the teacher. It is actually a really common structure to use in spoken Welsh and it’s common to see it used in speech in novels. So, it turns out, that it’s not duo lingo that is wrong in this instance - rather the influent speaker.

[@sahie]

The yes and no kill me! I didn’t realise how simple English’s yes and no were. 😂

[@NetherTaker]

TL;DR DuoLingo teaches South Welsh. Guy speaks North Welsh. Hilarity ensues

[@KateeAngel]

Well for me duolingo course actually helps to recognise words and phrases, now that I see a text in Welsh, and watch a video where people speak it, I recognise much more. For someone who is from far away it is a great start to accumulate vocabulary and some knowledge in grammar. Also their biggest problem is that they mix dialects, and thus many phrases would be strange for anyone who knows only one dialect

[@InstaSim6]

Duolingo is by no means a bad resource, I do think it's good that there is an accessible way for people to learn Welsh and I want to see more people learn it. Although I find Duolingo probably works better as supplementary material alongside other methods of learning Welsh :) I'm really glad to hear it's coming along well for you and that you can recognise much more Welsh after using Duolingo :)

[@konrad1345]

Yeah pretty sure their Irish course also has a lot of regionalisms, great video!

[@InstaSim6]

Ye, I think a lot of the courses do. I'm not particularly against teaching regionalisms in language per se, I just think if they teach one regional dialect they should at least have the option for other regional dialects too. It's quite a popular app so I can't see why they couldn't do something like that .

[@konrad1345]

@@InstaSim6 I'm guessing it has to do with the variety and quantity of contributors? No idea how much Duolingo supervises and directs these courses on an in-depth level.

[@gwennanstaziker1287]

I’m from South Wales and have NEVER heard anyone say ‘Dych’ in my entire life 😂. I’m fluent Welsh too haha

[@InstaSim6]

This seems to be a common trend I'm seeing people talk about, to the point I think I need to make amends that this course isn't teaching South Wales Welsh, it's simply just wrong Welsh 😅

[@casluvs]

Omg I’m fluent in welsh and I tried this and I was kinda worried about the fact I was calling myself fluent but I couldn’t form basic sentence structures😭 but no it turns out that duolingo makes a lot of mistakes with things like grammar, etc even within a lot of other different languages which is super annoying. Considering how much the app is used it’s quite infuriating how it teaches things very wrong, aha.

[@gxemma]

Yeah, I was taught English first because my dad was english, but I was born in Wales. Duolingo confused me so much, haha

[@WelshGuitarDude]

So how can we learn fluent welsh realistically ?

[@internetual7350]

@@WelshGuitarDude Dictionaries for terminology and listen to Welsh speakers for pronunciation, but I'm Irish so take what I say with a pinch of salt.

[@Life17-f3f]

@@WelshGuitarDude the learn Welsh podcast is a great resource to learn both North and South Walsh

[@emmybm15]

I'm trying to learn Welsh on Duolingo (Started during Lockdown ended up loving the language, now can't get enough of it) but because I'm English I've never figured out what was the South Welsh and the North Welsh dialect, when learning it so thank you for teaching me it is indeed the Southern (and obviously to you the wrong) part 😅

[@_perza]

I think this is for things like Scottish, welsh and Irish + other languages where it depends on what region you are in. I hope they fix this

[@InstaSim6]

Aye, even if it's adding the separate regions as individual courses or adding a feature which sets which region you want to learn, especially when there's some fairly large differences between certain dialects.

[@_perza]

@@InstaSim6 I never thought of it that way, I hope they do!

[@rileytimbrell648]

I'm not fluent but Welsh is mandatory I our school and I've noticed so many differences. I'm from South Wales and I would say "Sut wyt ti" I was taught "sut dych chi" on duokingo

[@InstaSim6]

When I was in primary school we were taught "Sut wyt ti" (informal) and "Sut ydych chi" (formal/plural). This was a good 15-20 years ago and we were taught a much better standard of Welsh than this Duolingo course, despite there not being as much publicity to get more people learning and speaking Welsh back then.

[@winklepicking3202]

Same here, I went to a Welsh medium school in South Wales I was also taught sut wyt ti/sut ydych chi…. Duolingo has had me doubting my whole education!

[@wayneseex1595]

@@winklepicking3202 The one thing you and many others on here fail completely to have learnt is that there are various registers of Welsh in use, both in speech and writing, and the maker of this video is simply being far too prescriptive about what should or should not be 'correct Welsh'. The all-too-easy criticism of Duolingo is what is truly lazy.

[@winklepicking3202]

Wayne Seex I’m fully aware of differences between the north south and even the west, and what I’m pointing out is that even though I’ve lived in south wales my whole life, I was taught the north Wales way, yet, when trying to polish up my rusty Welsh I try Duolingo as it was co produced by my old science teacher, yet it’s using sentence formations that are foreign to me…

[@AD-nx1xd]

I was taught on Ylpan that sit wyt tt was singular (you)or informal form of adress while the plural or formal version was sut dach chi!!

[@tomfrascina5846]

SaySomethingInWelsh is a better way to learn. Separate courses for North & South Welsh.

[@InstaSim6]

I have heard about Say Something in Welsh although haven't heard about much of what they do. Their website does give a good impression though so I may have a look into it 🙂

[@MyawMyaw01]

Makes me want to try if the Duolingo course on my native language is accurate as I've seen Japanese, Korean and Chinese natives (and now this Welsh video) speed running their own language course and the app uses trite or literal translation from English.

[@InstaSim6]

I have heard it's a fairly common thing on Duolingo. Might be worth a try you seeing whether it's also the case in your native language 🙂

[@nightspicer]

I've started using Duolingo for Welsh somewhat recently and it seems that they've improved it a fair bit, but it is a shame that you can't choose whether you're learning South or North Welsh.

[@InstaSim6]

I will be revisiting it sometime soon hopefully for a follow up video to also explain some of my comments in a less satirical sense but also to see if there have been any improvements to it. Although not being able to select between north and south is unfortunate (although in the learning material prior to the tests it does go over both from memory)

[@aldozilli1293]

Is Welsh two languages or one as the way things sound there needs to be an accepted standardised Welsh for learning, News etc.

[@InstaSim6]

@@aldozilli1293 It's one language, but it has regional variations (very much like any language does) For the most part, Welsh that is taught in schools is pretty standardised, with any particular variations typically being taught by parents or later on. The regional variations just come naturally

[@aldozilli1293]

@@InstaSim6 Saesneg dw i, ond dw i'n siarad Cymraeg efo Duolingo! Ma'en bwysig dysgu Cymraeg beth'r pobl hen a hwntw use a cofio the differences. Sorry probably sounds awful but didn't want to look at a translator. Please feel free to correct me!

[@mcgoose258]

I'm happy to see this kind of content more and more, people keeping duolingo honest about its shortcomings

[@No_Named_Nobody]

This is so interesting. This is the first video like this I’ve seen where the person doing it has said ‘no this is just wrong’ I wonder why there’s such a drastic difference between languages on Duolingo?

[@DLLwsn]

Some languages have more volunteers, some languages have been worked on more etc, it's all sorts of different reasons

[@InstaSim6]

According to someone I spoke to on Twitter, the Welsh course on Duolingo derives from some Welsh Government material on Welsh For Adults. When I looked up these resources, it very much matches up (although the Government resources have separate versions for North and South Wales). When I looked at the resources, they seem to teach a very informal version of both North and South Wales Welsh, using vocabulary I've not really heard spoken very widely even in conversational Welsh. It's very odd that the standard the Welsh Government seem to teach is a standard that's very uncommon if used at all. I learned more sophisticated Welsh in Primary School.

[@mousehole1]

I don't know how often you speak Welsh or with whom but judging by your video I think you're rather out of touch with the current "standard" Welsh which second language learners are now taught throughout Wales. Yours seems more like written Welsh. Duolingo teaches the modern standard of conversational Welsh (which is also gramatically correct). Both Northern and Southern variations are taught in the course and accepted as answers. Have you listened to the everyday Welsh / normal speech on S4C lately? Literally half an hour ago I heard "nenfwd" on a house renovation programme. I understand the Gog / Hwntw divide and your dislike of the Southern way of speaking but please don't try and put people off using Duolingo which is a huge boon to learners like me. It is written in line with the Dysgu Cymraeg course for Second Language Learners and a tremendously important resource. So to all learners who have watched this video, please don't be put off. Unfortunately a very small percentage of fluent speakers seem to want to keep the language to themselves and are offputting rather than supportive.

[@InstaSim6]

I totally respect people who learn Welsh and I am over the moon when I hear that people are learning this beautiful language. I know that the Welsh language course on Duolingo is popular (and I am very happy to hear that because I want to see and hear more people speaking Welsh) but it is not the modern standard of conversational Welsh. Personally, I have never heard anyone speak the way that is taught on Duolingo and based on other comments left here, this seems to be a common trend (I've only really seen this version of Welsh in an article recently on BBC Cymru and that's the only time I've seen it anywhere outside of Duolingo). In fairness, when I heard that the Duolingo course is based on the Dysgu Cymraeg standards endorsed by the Welsh Government, I was quite astonished. Even though they have a North Wales course available, that one isn't even all that good either from what I read when I looked at the material, I have never come across anyone who speaks Welsh in the way that the "Dysgu Cymraeg" standards are showing and I personally find that concerning. Unfortunately I haven't watched S4C for a good while, although that's due to me not paying for a TV License so it's not for the lack of interest (I definitely would watch S4C if I could but £159 isn't entirely affordable for me at present). As for the "nenfwd" thing, this is something I looked into after releasing the video and that was a mistake on my part. Although at the time of recording I had never heard of "nenfwd" before so the point is still somewhat accurate albeit not entirely correct. Even then "to" is often used to mean "ceiling", in the same way as in English really that people say "roof" sometimes instead of "ceiling" The Gog / Hwntw divide is more of a meme and I was really only refering to that for the entertainment value (and I would be more than happy for someone from South Wales to do the same back about North Wales Welsh if they wish). There are elements about South Wales Welsh that I really despise ("gyda" in the wrong context and "popty ping" are my biggest bugbears about South Wales Welsh) but for the most part I think the dialect is quite fascinating. I no way do I wish to deter people from learning Welsh. There's nothing that makes me prouder than when someone is learning Welsh, but I do expect the language is taught correctly or it'll just lead to confusion. Conversational language is very rarely, if ever, the first thing you learn in a new language and I don't see why Welsh should be treated any differently. You don't build a house roof before you've laid the foundation. Language basics are fundamental to understanding any language and that comes before going deeper into conversation and dialects, cutting corners isn't such a good idea. As a tool, I think Duolingo is great and I'm grateful that they have a Welsh course available (they could have chosen not to have one and that would have been a major missed opportunity for them, in my opinion) and I'm very supportive of anyone who wishes to learn Welsh, whatever resources they use. At the end of the day, I made the video based on anecdotal evidence because I wanted to see how it was, as I had never really seen it first hand before, and give my own opinions of the course, with added entertainment for an InstaShiz video.

[@patriciaedmondson3014]

I've been learning Welsh on Dou for a couple of years now, and I'm certainly not going to get caught between South Welsh and North Welsh. It sounds too much like the differences between the way English is spoken in differing countries and regions. I will disagree, however, with your statement that you never learn a language conversationally first, because that is exactly how you learn your mother tongue, and is clearly the easiest way to learn to SPEAK a language. That's why children can learn languages easier than adults do. They don't get caught up in rules, they learn for context. Learning to read and write comes later since you already have an understanding of what the language should sound like. It's only when we start learning a second language as adults that we get caught up in the rules first, often trying to translate into our mother tongue in our heads, that make learning to speak with any fluency difficult. I'll also reply to your repeated statement that using to instead of nenfwd is the same as English speakers using roof for ceiling. I don't know what English speakers you are referncing here, but I certainly wouldn't be promoting them as people who should be modeling the English language! The words aren't interchangeable by anyone who has English as a first language from any of the countries I am aware of.

[@jakewhittaker1145]

Massive thanks for the heads up there! I moved to Bangor last year, and have been quite on and off with Duolingo since I became aware of it's "regional limitations". But having seen now that some of it is just outright incorrect, I'm really not keen on carrying on much further with any of the Welsh course on there. If you don't mind my asking, where are you from in Wales? Would you consider posting any language related content in the future? I recently started working at Ysbyty Gwynedd and really want to up my game in Welsh!

[@bekah4137]

As a person from the south I believe nenfwd refers to the ceiling on the inside of a house and tô the outside - but I might be wrong

[@bekah4137]

Like ceiling vs roof

[@InstaSim6]

Yes that is what "nenfwd" refers to, although many people do call it "to", similar to how in English we just use "roof" instead of "ceiling" sometimes. Before making the video I had just never heard the word "nenfwd" before as everyone just used "to" from memory. Although I did look it up after uploading the video 🙂

[@minecrafterthedonker4585]

i personally think that informally, any welsh is correct as long as you're understood

[@InstaSim6]

Very true, informally you can pretty much get away with most forms of speaking provided it makes some degree of sense, but written Welsh and spoken Welsh aren't particularly interchangeable The biggest issue I can see with the Duolingo course is it seems to try and teach spoken Welsh as written Welsh, which looks a little odd, not to mention there are just some things it teaches that nobody uses (although this could also be partly down to the resources used to create the Duolingo course). There's still some regional differences, but for the most part writing in Welsh is broadly the same no matter where you are. Speaking those words can be different (the word "Ydych" is a good example as, informally, up north it can sound something like "Dach", with the south pronouncing it as "Dych"), but you'd still write them the same way, with maybe the exception if you are actively writing spoken Welsh for the purposes of a script or something

[@minecrafterthedonker4585]

@@InstaSim6 is it same for rydyn ni'n being dyn ni'n in duolingo?

[@uxity3513]

i wish this video was longer, i am also native and fluent in welsh and find it funny that there's so many stupid mistakes like this.

[@InstaSim6]

The video was meant to be a lot longer (I recorded about an hour+ of footage originally, but the end of the recording session became more of a rant and I didn't want it to come across as an angry video, but I am thinking of revisiting the Welsh course at some point 🙂 )

[@uxity3513]

@@InstaSim6 please do i'd like to see more

[@gandolfthorstefn1780]

2:12 In the Hippocrene course they have Shwd ych chi? for South Wales. The course gives Sut ' dach chi? for North Wales.(How are you?).

[@InstaSim6]

In fairness this is a dialect thing, if you're writing it out as a sentence you'd still use "Sut ydych chi" (depending on context) even if it's pronounced slightly differently depending on locality. I say "dach" when speaking but always write it as "ydych".

[@Penguins1999]

I'm live in South Wales. I had never heard 'dych' before, we got taught 'wyt'. But when my mum was in school (also in South Wales) she got taught 'dych' Examples, I got taught 'Sut wyt ti?' My mum got taught 'Sut dych chi?' So I think the Welsh course also got some generational things in there as well as North and South Welsh. Maybe Duo should ask you what Welsh you want to learn as well as (mainly for the other courses) what English you use British or American

[@sahie]

My family are from South Wales and they moved with my mum to Australia when she was 10. The Saes stole our language from us and none of the living generations of my family during my lifetime could speak Cymraeg fluently. For some of us, this is the best we can get. 😢

[@ailblentyn]

"Dych" is a funny one, but it's perfectly fine to use a copular sentence in a question about occupations like "Are you a school nurse?" Some version of "Ai nyrs ysgol ydych chi?" / "Ifê nyrs ysgol ych chi?" / "Nyrs ysgol dach chi?" would be perfectly normal.

[@InstaSim6]

A lot of the things I mentioned in the video were exaggerated for entertainment (it's pretty much what I do in this particular series). After looking into it more after making the video and receiving a lot of mixed reviews in the comments, I think I can more broadly define Duolingo as teaching more the spoken form of Welsh as opposed to written Welsh, but it seems to teach that in a written way which just looks a bit odd (when I was in school, we pretty much learned written Welsh separately to spoken Welsh), you'd still write "Ydych chi'n nyrs ysgol?" even if you say it as "Dach/dych chi'n nyrs ysgol?". Or as Duolingo had it, you'd write "(Ai) Nyrs ysgol ydych chi?" but say "(Ai) Nyrs ysgol dych/dach chi?". Where I say something is "wrong" in the video isn't necessarily correct of me to say, I was just trying to make a funny video 🙂

[@ailblentyn]

@@InstaSim6 It was a funny video. I used to get a lot of amusement out of how terrible Google Translate was for Welsh. Unfortunately it’s improved a lot! :(

[@InstaSim6]

@@ailblentyn I used to be the same 😅 Google Translate still isn't brilliant if you're translating large sentences, but it's definitely adequate for singular words or short sentences. I definitely wouldn't recommend using Google Translate without some knowledge of Welsh sentence structures at least

[@ailblentyn]

@@InstaSim6 I used to teach a Welsh course for beginners, and one of the weaker students would email me in Welsh in order to impress me. Except that it wasn’t impressive, because he’d clearly just run his text through Google Translate - which at that stage was just replacing word for word, and barely making any attempt at Welsh grammar.

[@gandolfthorstefn1780]

I guess there is many ways to skin a 🐱Cath.

[@wickedone6476]

Southern Welsh is a different dialect but it's not incorrect , it's just different to northern welsh

[@KiraLeah02]

I’m from South Wales and when I first saw Welsh on duolingo I thought dych was north Welsh… I was taught sut wyt ti rather than sut dych chi 😹😹

[@InstaSim6]

"Sut wyt ti" is what we were taught as well in school ("Sut ydych chi" being the formal/plural way). "Dach" is what we tend to say as the short, informal form of "Ydych", but even then it's spelled "Ydych" regardless of how you say it, or at least that's how I was taught 🙂

[@christianderbyshire744]

I had a friend study with Duolingo for two weeks when they finally got back to me with what they had learned I was thoroughly confused

[@anwen413]

haha, this is teaching me that north welsh really is different from south welsh; it's not just a difference between saying siopa and marchnata. in south wales, to is roof, and nenfwd is ceiling! that's what all the schools in port talbot were taught, anyway. so intreresting to see the gyda and gan thing, in south wales i was just taught that they both mean the same thing and can be used interchangeably! (i was told gan meant by or in the 'do they have?' context, and gyda meant with or again, 'do they have?'

[@CountryballClub69420]

I've tried learing welsh from England because I always go to Wales and when I found this video I realised that I've used the wrong learning course

[@InstaSim6]

I think Duolingo works well as a supplement, but I would always recommend a Welsh tutor if you wanted to learn anything more than simple terminology and especially if you wanted to learn the written language I do at least appreciate that Duolingo has Welsh available though 🙂

[@matthaeusiacomusalexeliusp7984]

To this day the longest sentence I can say in Welsh is i like coffee, tea, milk, microwaves and shit

[@InstaSim6]

Aye excellent 🙂 soon you'll be able to say even longer sentences, keep at it if you can 😊

[@cje24576]

Guess I won’t be going back to Duolingo for Welsh lessons

[@InstaSim6]

Contrary to how my video is presented (baring in mind this is part of a series where I overly exaggerate things) I'm not saying people shouldn't use Duolingo but from my experience and later reading into it after making the video, it works well as a supplement My recommendation will always be to find someone locally who teaches Welsh as most apps which teach the basics tend to miss out quite a bit of the nuances of the language as well as they teach a more generic version of Welsh which may differ to the various regional dialects depending on where you live. Whilst Duolingo does have North and South Wales Welsh in the Welsh course, regional differences from different parts of Wales are understandably missed as there's various different ways people communicate with each other in different parts of Wales It's not to say that people shouldn't use the app, because there is a lot of useful information on it, but I recommend treading carefully as something it teaches may not necessarily be what people you speak to use regularly, but I also suggest using what you have learned on Duolingo in conversation with others (if that's a possibility for you) and from that people can guide you

[@gandolfthorstefn1780]

Peidiwch â phoeni.Mae Dualingo dal yn dda.Translate: Don't worry. Dualingo is still good. I may have got that wrong but I've been using Dualingo for nearly a year now.I just recently learned the command & plural forms such as 'Peidiwch' in the above sentence for Don't(paid). Don't give up! They say Welsh takes about 1040 hours to learn.Thats nearly 3 times more hours than Spanish and twice as much as German. Celtic languages are notoriously difficult but Chinese, Japanese and Arabic take twice as long,2200 hours.If you give up on this language you will surely find excuses to give up other languages. So if by chance you read this cje24576 don't give up. Its a real buzz when you listen to BBC Cymru and understand what they are saying.They use a lot of time words like wythnos,echdoe,yfory and heddiw. And when they talk about rugby you hear words like 'chwarae' and °goll' 😆👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

[@Trusvxq]

Pls stop saying south welsh is wrong because it varies on where you are in wales and duo teaches south welsh versions of welsh

[@edwardthomas6956]

Don't you want to see Welsh promoted outside the confines of specialist, bought materials? People can at least get a taster of Welsh before committing to a proper course - we should not be looking a gift horse in the mouth. The Duolingo Welsh offering is free and accessible, and there are plenty of knowledgeable if pedantic notes on the back page of most of the sentences.

[@InstaSim6]

Yes I do want to see Welsh promoted further afield, I love listening to people who learn Welsh and also enjoy helping out wherever possible. And I do agree with you that Duolingo can certainly give a good taste for the language and works well as a supplement, and in fairness I did see the notes the other day which I didn't actually come across when I made this video (in fairness the planning for this video was just to make something that was short, snappy and entertaining) though I'm planning a follow up of some degree to tie some loose ends 🙂 In any way, I am appreciative that there is an accessible resource like Duolingo available for people to use, and I much prefer there being one than not to have on at all, but on the other hand I think there's a lot of areas where the course could improve 🙂

[@pauldavies9360]

Gyda comes at the end of a sentence gan up front.

[@gandolfthorstefn1780]

Oes amser 'da chi I °brynu'r tocynnau? Gyda is usually heard as 'da in speech.Gyda (gydag before vowels) is the general term in the South for 'with'(cf. ego in the North ).

[@gandolfthorstefn1780]

(efo)in the North. Typo below.

[@dontmindme5290]

what would be the best way to learn welsh? I've being doing duolingo for a bit and I'm from South Wales. A lit of things confused me while doing it considering they use mostly stuff from South Wales like gyda. It did help a little with school work and I came top of the class with my mock results. I want to become fluent but I don't know where to learn it efficiently as there are not many videos on youtube which teach welsh or not many apps which teach in a correct way

[@rogueone7326]

Say something in Welsh is a great learning course, you just listen and repeat sentences, they have both North and South versions to choose from, a forum for other learners and it’s really good, well I think so.

[@RedBanana_]

I remember once I said ‘da iawn’ to mean ‘very good’ on Duolingo, and it marked me wrong and said it was just ‘iawn’ which literally makes zero sense?? Is that not just ‘very’?? (I’m not fluent in Welsh, but based on what I’ve been taught in school, and what I’ve heard teachers (who are fluent in Welsh) say, ‘da iawn’ is probably correct rather than ‘iawn’ when it comes to writing/saying ‘very good’.)

[@RedBanana_]

Also, I’m from South Wales, and have always lived in either England (until I was like 4, so that barely counts) or South Wales, and I just can’t work out whether Duolingo just teaches some weird combination of South and (maybe?) North Welsh, or if it teaches a version that’s at least partially understandable to people from both North and South Wales??

[@InstaSim6]

"Da iawn" means very good, but you can say "Iawn" to just mean "Good" or "Ok" (It wouldn't mean "Very good" though by itself, that would have to be "Da iawn" generally speaking). Duolingo seems to teach what is generally seen as spoken Welsh rather than written Welsh. My mum recently gave it a go recently and she got confused despite being fluent in Welsh all her life, although what she mentioned is that she learned written Welsh in school (same as I did) which is very different to what Duolingo teaches. I think she found a couple of examples where it also seems to mash North and South Wales Welsh into sentences which I didn't come across when I made my video, but I suppose the tests are likely made algorithmically rather than being set questions. There are parts of Duolingo's lessons which make sense but then there are things that I've never heard of before as a first language Welsh speaker, as well as sentence structures which are very uncommon as highlighted in the video.

[@RedBanana_]

@@InstaSim6 Thanks, that explains a lot. I technically should still be doing Welsh in school (as I’m currently in year 10), but due to a need for more free time in school (mainly because I have autism and personally can’t deal with 5 hours of loud annoying kids every day for 5 days) my mum removed me from Welsh lessons, so I decided to consider learning it on Duolingo because I felt kinda guilty about not learning Welsh? (Also, it’s a cool language).

[@lisapritchard5384]

Just to clarify the correct Welsh term for ceiling is nenfwd. Tô is roof!!

[@InstaSim6]

@@lisapritchard5384 I did post this correction in a comment pinned to the top of the comments section 🙂 I was made aware of that after uploading the video but wasn't aware of it at the time of recording, though my point makes some sense as the words tend to be interchangable in English and Welsh

[@mailimcquaid6300]

Thanks I've been looking for a video like this since I started learning welsh on duolingo, and since I'd moved to north wales wanted to be learning the right dialect, clearly duo's no help then. I hope more fluent welsh speakers can give some feedback to duo so people can learn the actual welsh language, or tells you which dialect your learning at the very least.

[@Thebestman-f1j]

Mae hynny'n anhygoel! Dw i'n caru gemau.

[@zoeschannel2547]

i love your welsh accent!

[@josephfriel6597]

Well it's not wrong it's just wrong for you being a northerner, most non Welsh speakers who want to learn Welsh will be from the South which is probably why they prioritised the southern Welsh, also not like they have unlimited funding to have 2 forms of Welsh on their app for a language which is less popular than the majority of the languages on their app

[@InstaSim6]

I don't agree that most people who want to learn Welsh will be from the south as many from where I live, around the North East of Wales especially, want to learn Welsh. As for popularity, the Duolingo Welsh course is actually very popular, even becoming the most popular language on the app at some point during the Covid Lockdowns, with people from various parts of the world using Duolingo to learn Welsh. I've heard of people from America and Japan learning the language which is amazing to hear. I don't have an issue with teaching the different dialects, but to teach a way of using Welsh which is used by a distinct minority of the population is problematic, as trying to use that taught language in conversation will lead to confusion, as many in other comments to my video have mentioned.

[@josephfriel6597]

@@InstaSim6 I said that about the South specifically since there are more Welsh speakers up north than south so I made the conjecture based on how there more population in the south who don't speak Welsh so perhaps that's why they've made the decision but dismissing it as wrong Welsh just because it's not your regionally dialect is a very tribal mind set and only furthers the divide between North and south, its hard being a Welsh speaker or learner in the south when you get idiots who think your stupid for learning it and such so maybe it's not such a bad thing it prioritises the southern dialect but of course I think it should offer both but end of the day it's a free app which probably only has limited funding for certain languages so hopefully in future they can add a gog version aswell

[@InstaSim6]

@@josephfriel6597 The comments made in my video were exaggerated as it was made for entertainment (and I would be happy for someone from the south to make the same exaggerated comments about North Wales Welsh if they wished). Honestly, I don't take issue with South Wales Welsh, and parts of it I think are pretty cool -> Exception being the "gyda" in the context of "Mae gyda fi xxx" because that is grammatically incorrect. In fairness, I did go on the Welsh lesson again fairly recently and they do mention both North and South Wales Welsh where there are differences, but then I even got confused by their North Wales Welsh stuff because it deviates from everything I learnt when I was in school, though there's probably a bigger reason for that which I plan to make a follow up video about.

[@josephfriel6597]

@@InstaSim6 interesting surely it can't be hundred percent accurate but the fact Welsh is so accessible on there is a great step toward the language flourishing again hopefully they add some updates to include other dialects

[@InstaSim6]

@@josephfriel6597 I do agree with you there, having Welsh available and accessible is a positive, and is better than not having it 🙂

[@wladfan]

Beginner from y wladfa here. Good thing I didn't use duolingo because it was too slow, I'll never use it now.

[@InstaSim6]

Croeso from Wales 🙂 Duolingo can work well as a supplement but I wouldn't use it as the sole resource to learning Welsh from my perspective. It does miss out a lot and it's sentence structures are awful. Not sure if this is true for other languages though.

[@RV1610]

My school teaches my to say wyt tin hoffi siocled But duolingo would say dych chin hoffi siocled which one is right?

[@InstaSim6]

Depends on formality, but you'd write the second one as "Ydych chi'n hoffi siocled?" regardless of how it's spoken "Wyt ti'n" would be used for singular / informal "Ydych chi'n" for plural / formal

[@ax1sp0wers]

My question to you fluent guys, are you doing anything to help correct the content?

[@InstaSim6]

I have been thinking of approaching Duolingo but I do want to try and garner a better understanding of their course first. In fairness, this video was the first and only time I've personally used Duolingo, and it was pretty much for the purpose of making this video. On the other hand, if Duolingo themselves came across this video then I would be more than happy for them to get in touch. I'm not saying my Welsh is particularly perfect, but if I can help to make a learning resource better then I am certainly open to that.

[@winklepicking3202]

Yea the “to” “nenfwd” thing I thought you were wrong, an old school teacher of mine co produced the Welsh Duolingo, I live in South Wales and my education through the medium of Welsh, I joined Duolingo as I’ve become quite rusty, but I found the “dych” hard to master and I started questioning whether I’d been educated wrong through my whole schooling, as for me it’s always been “ydych” I’m glad I’ve seen this video…. I also want to say “rydw I” instead of “dw I” again I don’t trust if I’m right or not. 🤣

[@InstaSim6]

Ye I do put my hands up to the "To" and "Nenfwd" thing, but it's not actually something I was aware of until after I made the video. As for "ydych", like it can be pronounced in shortened forms (up north we say "dach" sometimes, for example), but it should never be written in it's spoken form. "Ydych" is the spelled form regardless of how you say it really. "Dw'i" is also just the shortened version of "Rydw i" and is mostly informal, but I've only ever used it at the beginning of a sentence. It shouldn't be used at the end. As an example, if you say "I am a school nurse", you could say "Rydw i'n nyrs ysgol", which can be shortened to "Dwi'n nyrs ysgol", or you could say "Nyrs ysgol ydw i". These are the ways I was taught anyway, I wouldn't put "Dw'i" at the end of a sentence personally 🙂

[@xhappyponyxwasmyoldname1395]

@@InstaSim6this is very helpful as a Welsh-American trying to learn my mother tongue, thank you!

[@caltblake6112]

i moved to wales three years ago, i use this and i struggle lol

[@ycsd4430]

I live in a north wales border town so we speak fluent English, over the past few months I've been trying to learn some welsh from Duolingo (because of the welsh lessons I get at school I noticed a few weird things like the use of the word 'gyda' and some mutations weren't right but I just brushed it off and thought everything else was ok. my aunt speaks fluent welsh so whenever I'd try to speak welsh to her she'd get confused because it 'didnt make sense' and she's pull weird faces. now I understand why.

[@oaktreeholler]

Is there a better source for learning Welsh you'd recommend?

[@InstaSim6]

Personally I'd recommend finding a course which teaches Welsh (there are a few local businesses across Wales which have different styles of courses and these would be my main recommendation over anything else as you not only get the skill but there's also the slightly more personal touch to an actual course). Duolingo does provide an ok start to learning Welsh, and it's great that the resource is available for free, if you don't know Welsh at all (like jokes aside in the video, I'm probably not Duolingo's target market for their Welsh course anyway) but certainly don't expect fluency out of it. Also if you have learned a bit of Welsh then speaking with native speakers can also give you a good understanding. If you have Welsh speaking friends then getting into a sort of habit of speaking Welsh with them can work wonders (and they can also give good pointers on what you did well as well as where you can improve) :) There's also a site called Italki that I came across recently. I can't vouch for them as I only heard about them a couple of days ago but it's apparently a site where you can speak with native speakers of various languages, and Welsh is one of them so could be a good resource to look into :)

[@oaktreeholler]

@@InstaSim6 much appreciated

[@popspro1]

it was put as the south welsh tounge(the type of welsh i can speak more than north welsh) so technically it was correct. but they should add that type of toungue of welsh and other languages so you can speak it depending on what area you want to move to(or other reasons).

[@InstaSim6]

I did return to Duolingo after making this video to read up more about the course and it does teach both North and South Wales Welsh, but from further research it comes from the Dysgu Cymraeg resources (which I personally only found out through Twitter) For the purposes of my video, I just fast-tracked straight to the quiz which was probably a bad idea, but the video style is intentionally exaggerated as it's the nature of the InstaShiz series

[@gandolfthorstefn1780]

I used a Welsh translator for Are you a school nurse?. Answer: Ydych chi'n nyrs ysgol? Dualingo wrong on 3 points. 1 No 'Y' for are you 'Ydych chi'. 2 they left out the connecting or predicative 'yn' after chi, which then drops the 'y' and becomes 'n. 3 The word order is wrong in this case which should have the Verbnoun first,Ydych.

[@InstaSim6]

The written "A ydych" as I mentioned in the video is just slightly more formal. It all depends on context. You can prefix "A" in front of most question, such as "A fedrwch chi" for "Can you", "A hoffwch chi" for "Would you like", etc. They all work with or without the A at the beginning :) In an informal setting you can mix the sentence structures around like Duolingo has, but it's not a particularly common way of using "Ydych" from personal experience.

[@davythfear1582]

there's more than one way of saying 'Are you a school nurse?' This guy didn't realize that and was far too prescriptive, hence all of the negative comments. Welsh translators are only as good as the people who have uploaded the content, and don't necessarily cope with context.

[@davythfear1582]

'Nyrs ysgol (y)dych chi?' is a perfectly correct way (but not the only way) of asking 'Are you a school nurse?' I taught for 30+ years in Welsh medium schools so I haven't needed GoogleTranslate to say this.

[@gandolfthorstefn1780]

​@@davythfear1582Diolch yn fawr i'r adborth.(Not Google translate). Love this language. I intended to do Spanish at the same time but Cymraeg was more interesting so I dropped the Spanish.😊

[@gandolfthorstefn1780]

@davythfear1582 Diolch am y mewnbwn.(Sorry, avoiding Google translate so that may be wrong). Dw'n dysgu Cymraeg ar hyn o bryd felly fy Cymraeg yn ddim da.🤔

[@dyadic]

Which resources would you recommend for learning Welsh online? I've been on Duolingo for two years by now and would like recommendations from a native.

[@InstaSim6]

Personally my best recommendation would be a local Welsh language course. There are various different Welsh courses available although they aren't always available for free. Some small businesses do provide Welsh lessons too and I find they can be a bit cheape and they can get you up to speed on reading, writing, speaking and understanding Welsh. I believe there's also an online thing called Italki which allows you to speak with native speakers, and Welsh is available on there so that could also be of help. Duolingo can also work as a great supplement (and with it being free it's not going to burn any financial holes either) but I personally wouldn't recommend using it by itself.

[@MooseCracker]

I wish I'd seen this before starting the "Welsh" course on Duolingo! I don't speak Welsh but quickly realised that they don't just start with South Walian dialect and bad grammar. They actually mix the dialects in completely unnatural ways. The English in the "Welsh" course is also terrible. I wonder, though, if it's actually Argentinian Welsh.

[@InstaSim6]

Ye tht is another issue that's present with the Welsh course on Duolingo. It isn't Argentinian Welsh (from my understanding, it's based on the Welsh Government's "Dysgu Cymraeg" framework), but what I think it's more like is that Duolingo is teaching the spoken Welsh as a written language If you spoke the way Duolingo teaches, then you might actually get by - although I'm still not a fan of the sentence structures - but you wouldn't write sentences in this way

[@leestirling4623]

North Welsh is a tiny dialect. South Welsh was the more widely spoken and what most of the history is written in, the structures are correct but they do tend to shorten everything like you said it should by ydych chi in question form . But nyrs wyt ti/ ydych chi ? Is the right form. You are saying it in an English formed way lol when I watch videos and read my books it's written in the same structure as duo so I think you don't understand because north are doing it the wrong way around lol. Even in English with our Welsh accents a lot of the time we say it this way like going to the shop are you? Rather than are you going to the shop? .

[@InstaSim6]

I think we can agree to disagree on which dialect is correct, North Wales Welsh certainly isn't a "tiny dialect", the language up North as it's spoken goes back centuries, and when you read other Brittonic Celtic language forms, they resemble much closer to that of North Wales Welsh than they do of the South (although I don't doubt dialects probably exist in them too similarly to those of Welsh). "Nyrs wyt ti / ydych chi?" is certainly not the spoken way up here, "Wyt ti'n nyrs?" is used far more widely as is "Are you going to the shop?" when we speak English.

[@cje24576]

Do you have any recommendations for apps to use to learn Welsh?

[@chaichapstick]

ive been learning welsh on duolingo for nearly a full year now- the longest ive stuck with any language on duolingo- and now im starting to question if its worth pursuing anymore. im american and dont have any welsh speakers around me, or any closer online friends to ask about and every other resource seems so far away. the SSIW app didnt work on my phone so if i wanna do that i HAVE to use my laptop, and i havent found another reliable resource just yet unless i wanna actually pay a tutor or something. i know duolingo puts out stuff submitted by volunteers, but that doesnt help if this stuff is blatantly false. maybe i should try a different language

[@gandolfthorstefn1780]

Chai.Peidiwch â phoeni.Mae Dualingo dal yn dda. Translate.Don't worry.Dualingo is still good. I wrote that sentence without Google translate but from learning Dualingo like you for about a year.Maybe it's not 100%correct but I'm guessing it's close.If you happen to read these comments again,don't give up! Hwyl!

[@chaichapstick]

@@gandolfthorstefn1780 diolch i always appreciate encouragement✨️❤️

[@rmcode]

I assume you know the nursery rhyme....'mi welais jac-y-do, yn eistedd ar ben to..' it is obviously not 'sitting on top of a ceiling', to = roof

[@InstaSim6]

Yes I am very much aware that "to" means "roof", but it's also interchangeably used as "ceiling". Following the release of this video I did look into this and found that "nenfwd" is indeed the correct word for "ceiling", however as I stated in the video I had never heard that word before and I have doubts many people use it. Most people would probably use "to" to mean both "roof" and "ceiling", in the same way as in English where some people interchangeably call their ceiling a roof sometimes.

[@redfailhawk]

This is why I stopped their Welsh course. However, their Spanish course is really well done, so not all of them are trash. I’ve taken years of Spanish from actual teachers (4-5), and it makes sense.

[@YouHadMeAtHalo]

do you know where a good place to learn welsh is?? my family is from north wales but even my grandma doesn’t speak much. it’s kinda depressing and i wanna learn how to speak it :)

[@InstaSim6]

The best way I would suggest is through Welsh lessons, although the drawback to them is they may not be available for free. Some small businesses do host Welsh lessons (with online options also available) and they can certainly get you up to speed with reading, writing, understanding and speaking Welsh 🙂 One of my friend's businesses (based in Wrexham) hosts Welsh lessons so once there's more info on them I'll pass on the info. Duolingo works pretty well as a supplement though so it's not so much a deterrent to use it, but it shouldn't be relied on as the sole resource for learning Welsh. It can teach a lot of things but there's plenty of areas where it really misses (although much of that is likely down to the resources Duolingo derives it's lesson from as opposed to Duolingo itself).

[@YouHadMeAtHalo]

@@InstaSim6 Oh ok ty!! I love going to Wrexham, it’s very close to where my Grandma lives ☺️ I used to love The Acton Dogs when I was younger. I’ll probably use Duolingo for the time being just to get my basic stuff up to scratch.

[@gandolfthorstefn1780]

Hippocrene & Colloquial Welsh are two good Self instruction Courses to start with. They have a download for practicing the lessons and is very easy to use.

[@Nick_the_antzzzz]

I'm fluent in Welsh and found this so funny. Nenfwy defo isn't south welian, I'm from the valleys in South Wales and most of these are wrong. I say ydych not dych. I hate the fact it missed the treigladau. I don't say gyda in that context. Tbh I started questioning my Welsh 🤣🤣

[@InstaSim6]

I'm glad you enjoyed it 🙂 "Nenfwd" was actually a mistake on my part as it is actually the correct word for "ceiling", although we do use "to" to mean ceiling too sometimes. To me it seems like you speak North Wales Welsh (or, in my eyes, the correct Welsh 😛), but yep I agree the Duolingo course misses out on a lot, particularly on the sentence structures and "gyda" in the context of "Oes gyda" - genuinely annoys me when I hear that 🙃.

[@Nick_the_antzzzz]

@@InstaSim6 I've never heard the word "nenfwd", I've allways said "to". Tbh I never thought that there was a big difference between south and north Wales English, I think I might have ended up speaking a bit of both lol.

[@InstaSim6]

@@Nick_the_antzzzz A lot of the language is the same between North and South, and if you know one dialect then you can probably understand most of the other as well in most cases, but there are some more major differences too, similar to English I suppose. My personal favourite being the Welsh word for Cup of Tea, up North we say "Panad" whereas South say "Disgled" 😛 (or at least around the Carmarthen area say Disgled, not sure about further East)

[@Nick_the_antzzzz]

@@InstaSim6 yeah I think it might be a Carmarthen thing since I've allways said "panad o de" for cup of tea and everyone I know sais it like that. I know west Wales tends to have a different way of speaking so many that's where the word comes from? I feel like it's less north and south and more based on who taught you. If u learner Welsh from your parents it's gonna be less formal, it's the Welsh that they speak so words tend to be different. If u learn from school they are gonna teach u what is the most correct. Idk just a theory ig?

[@gandolfthorstefn1780]

I hear even fluent speakers miss the Treigladau on occasion and no one points it out as they understand what mutation should have taken place.

[@gwynwilliams4222]

I'm a Welsh speaker from south Wales and yes its pritty bad a lot of south Wales Welsh is down to lazyness but a lot of us do speak Welsh properly

[@InstaSim6]

I have been to South Wales a few times and I think the dialect itself is wonderful, Duolingo really doesn't do it justice. But this was just a fun little video I made - it's a highly exaggerated video because that's what the InstaShiz series is about. I don't actually believe that South Walian Welsh is incorrect Welsh. There's a few things about it I'm not a personal fan of (the "gyda" stuff being one of them), but broadly speaking I think it's a very nice dialect overall 🙂

[@Gwydibear]

South Wales Welsh speaker here, I very rarely hear people say dych instead of ydych. I assume the only people who use it are people who learn through this app 😊

[@InstaSim6]

Aye, it's a big problem with Duolingo is that it teaches a version of Welsh which is rarely used, if used at all. We say "da chi" instead of "ydych chi" up north occasionally (it's probably used down South too), but only informally, but I've never heard "dych" being used 🙂

[@oaktreeholler]

That is something I have tried to correct since watching this

[@leestirling4623]

Yes but if you type ydych chi in, it says correct. And when people ask questions on the comments they say they do a basic form first. Although I don't see the point in leaving out one letter. But I'm just saying you won't be marked wrong for saying ydych chi. It's like a simplified Welsh which yes it bugs me too but still learnt so much. I can read books and watch videos in Welsh (slowed down) and can understand most of it. In school is was rydych chi and rydw I. On there its just dw I in stead of rydw I. They say it's basically the difference between saying I am vs I'm. So the full form could sound a bit robotic at times.

[@clivebradley2633]

Let's not have a gog telling us hwntw's how to speak

[@norifromreallife-di7hi120]

Dw i ddim yn hoffi how little duo teaches you. It’s pretty good but like it’s so slow

[@alfonsomango_suyu]

So, there is no app for learning Welsh... ?

[@InstaSim6]

Duolingo works well as a supplement but I will always, personally, recommend taught Welsh lessons over language learning apps. Duolingo and similar apps tend to focus on spoken Welsh, which differs quite a bit to written Welsh and the ways in which people like myself were taught in school. Whilst the spoken language is a large part of understanding Welsh (and other languages), reading and writing Welsh is also a very fundamental part of understanding the language as a whole and unfortunately that part seems to be missed in the Duolingo course -> at least from my experience with it which was a very short lived experience.

[@charion1234]

I have been trying it for awhile with Welsh and it's been a trip. No explanation for when chi'n or chi is supposed to be used, just trial and error. Also dislike what happened to the Swedish voice used. The previous voice sounded happy and upbeat, now it sounds as though life has beaten the crap out of the person.

[@InstaSim6]

"Chi'n" is just short for "Chi yn", so for example "Ydych chi yn Nyrs Ysgol?" can also be written as "Ydych chi'n Nyrs Ysgol?" "Chi" is simply the Formal or Plural form of "You". "Pam wnaethoch chi ..." which would be "Why did you ..." if you were talking more formally to someone or to a group of people. Hope that helps 🙂

[@philliptimbrell4216]

alot of the things you pointed out as being south walian are things ive never heared and im south walian

[@InstaSim6]

This does seem to be quite a common trend I'm seeing from other people who have commented and, in fairness, since making this video I've only seen this form of Welsh being used once in a BBC News Article so I'm thinking it's not even a common dialect at all 🙃

[@allenjenkins7947]

Who cares what they think in North Wales - blydi Gog.

[@xhappyponyxwasmyoldname1395]

“South Walean Welsh is not real Welsh” aaaaaand immediately I’m turned off from anything you have to say from then on….

[@FoolishSausage]

South Welsh 🤣

[@bmwguy93]

Seems to me that all north wales wants to do is. Bad talk south wales for there welsh. When the fact is should be encouraging to learn south or north doesnt matter its welsh consolidate it better and make the language more unified. Really pisses me off tbh

[@alanthomas2064]

Music? Can't hear him!

[@SionTJobbins]

no 'to' is roof; nenfwd is ceiling. This is basic Welsh. Why are you making out that there's a huge difference between south and north Wales?! But you're right on 'oes gan ... ' not 'oes gyda...'.

[@InstaSim6]

The "to" and "nenfwd" has been a subject of many comments and I will accept fault on that one as it's a mistake I made, although the point I made in the video was that I had never heard the word nenfwd before and "to" has generally been used for both roof and ceiling (a bit like in English where people use roof instead of ceiling). After uploading the video I did look it up and found that "nenfwd" is correct, but by that point it was slightly too late to really change anything. In terms of the North-South differences, this is more for entertainment than anything (and I would accept anyone from South Wales to do the same about North Wales Welsh if someone wishes to). Mostly I'm really not all that fussed about the differences, and there's a fair few i actually think are quite nice differences too (my personal favourite is the different way of asking for a cup of tea), but the biggest thing that comes up in the video of course is the "gan" vs "gyda" which is one of the things I don't like about the differences between North and South. At the end of the day, this video was made for entertainment purposes rather than for anything serious, although I have attracted a good debate which I do like 🙂

[@jamieroberts4656]

Have you tried Google translate?

[@InstaSim6]

In all fairness, Google Translate does a much better job than Duolingo in some of these 😅 At least Google uses correct Welsh and, in a few cases, the correct structure.

[@gandolfthorstefn1780]

Be wary of Google translate.Although it does a pretty good job if translation most of the time it isn't too good with idioms and other idiomatic types of speech. For e.g; It doesn't translate the other form of the negative 'ddim/don't which is 'mo'.It will just translate mo in the English sentence. It's still worth using to learn but be aware of it's limitations.

[@angharadhafod]

Ges i brofiad text wrth yrru "test out" (net beth bynnag mae'n b gafodd fe pan dych chi'n dechrau ac eisiau neidio'r gwersi cyntaf). Nes i ormod o gamgymeriadau ac felly bu rhaid i mi ddechrau o'r dechrau!

[@Sacroooooooooooooooooooooooooo]

This isn't a South Wales thing, I'm from south Wales and I tried it once. Dw *i*? It's Dw *i'n*!!!

[@InstaSim6]

I'm not sure where you're getting the Dwi / Dwi'n thing from, but it depends on context. Dwi'n is just the shorthand for Dwi yn (Which is also the shorthand for Rydw i yn). You could say "Dwi'n iawn" but you wouldn't say "Dwi'n wedi blino"

[@Sacroooooooooooooooooooooooooo]

​@@InstaSim6 Tired Sacri is best Sacri. What I meant was Ydw i and Dw i. Don't trust me on anything though. I barely know Welsh as a Southerner.

[@Sacroooooooooooooooooooooooooo]

​@@InstaSim6 Ooookay so 6 months later, I've just realised I say more north things than the south ways. I say teisen not cacen, I also say ydy as yd"i" which, according to wiktionary, is north welsh. Also, I now know how 'n works and that it causes a mutation (da -> mae'n dda).

[@InstaSim6]

@@Sacroooooooooooooooooooooooooo I used to help someone from Wrexham with Welsh lessons and I realised that the Teisen/Cacen debate is more a West-East difference than a North-South difference For example, I come from Anglesey and say Teisen for cake, but when I moved to Wrexham I realised people here use Cacen instead (It was a big debate between myself and the friend I helped teach Welsh lessons with). Although a friend of mine from Gwynedd also says Cacen so the debate is wider than I thought, but I'm glad to see someone outside Anglesey uses what I consider to be the correct Welsh word for cake 😛 I know my video comes across a little picky and condescending, but there's no real right way to speak Welsh. There's things about the Duolingo course that does irk me quite a bit, such as the sentence structures and the way it teaches the use of "gyda", but otherwise it can at least help someone to get by Yes, 'n causes a soft mutation (sometimes, I think. When I use Cysill to proof-read Welsh text, it sometimes moans about mutating after 'n). Mutations can be a little confusing sometimes, even for a fluent speaker, so don't worry if you don't quite get it 100% 🙂

[@TomBartram-b1c]

Well I always speak "awful wrong" South Walian Welsh on hol in places like Bala. In fact I even exaggerate it as a challenge and EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS ME 100%. o, a gyda llaw, to = roof nenfwd= ceiling. Ti'n actio tipyn bach d.b.ll. Dros Ben llestri.

[@teifi1685]

doesn't "to" mean roof?

[@InstaSim6]

Yes it does, but we do use it to mean "Ceiling" too, although it was my mistake in the video with regards to "nenfwd" (as explained in my pinned comment)

[@potatogodwarriorguy2910]

Sorry I'm a little confused. Is it incorrect welsh or is it just south wales welsh?😅

[@InstaSim6]

@@potatogodwarriorguy2910 Me saying it was incorrect was mostly hyperbolic for the sake of making an entertaining video There are parts which are just annoying about what Duolingo was teaching (I have been thinking of making a follow up to explain some of these) but it was mostly South Wales Welsh in the video, but I did since find out the course also explains North Wales Welsh but it has it's own issues too unfortunately

[@leahavea6313]

Its wrong in your head but in south Wales its correct Excuse my English

[@InstaSim6]

According to a lot of people from South Wales who have commented on this video, this isn't even correct for a lot of them, which amends my original statement from this course being predominantly South Wales, it's just simply incorrect (at least in sentence structures).

[@iwanwoodley829]

Why’d you say that south walian welsh is wrong? It’s just as correct as north welsh. North welsh isn’t the only dialect, nor is it the “correct” one. (I agree with pretty much everything else here like “dych”. No one says dych, everyone just says ydych)

[@InstaSim6]

Much of the comments I made in the video are exaggerated, it's part of a series where the content is generally more fast-paced and exaggerated. I'm not actually trying to claim that any one dialect of Welsh is more correct than the other As I mentioned in the last part of the video, there is one specific qualm I have about South Walian Welsh and it's the use of "gyda" in a particular context, but that is really the only genuine qualm I expressed in this video North Wales isn't the only dialect, nor do I want it to be. We have our own issues such as the correct word for cake (I firmly stand in the "Teisen" column in that one which I'm aware many people disagree with). How language is spoken across different parts of the country is honestly fascinating to me. This video was purely made for entertainment

[@seid3366]

What version of Welsh does it use? I figured this used Standard Welsh

[@InstaSim6]

It predominantly uses South Wales Welsh but there are some things which are common between North and South, although the course derives from Welsh Government approved material which is a bit shocking since this isn't Welsh as I was taught it growing up (not even in conversational Welsh).

[@leestirling4623]

They use both north and south . Some lessons have more north some lessons have more south. They teach gyda and gen I, ganddyn . ...

[@hopeful2165]

Yes, mostly wrong but 'nenfwd' is ceiling and 'to' is roof.

[@ethanwxm1950]

In stead of dych I was always taught ydw

[@davythfear1582]

'ydw' is yes I am, 'dych' is you are.

[@mimirsvision9929]

I never trusted Duolingo

[@benjaminpitre4670]

to : roof nenfwd : ceiling, I think

[@InstaSim6]

Aye that is correct, though people do use "to" to mean "ceiling" sometimes (in the same was as in English where we sometimes just say "roof" instead of "ceiling"). It is a mistake I made though and I fully put my hands up to that 🙂

[@gandolfthorstefn1780]

Then tonenfwd is the Attic.😄

[@zoeschannel2547]

​@@gandolfthorstefn1780 😂😂😂

[@KingUsyk]

Contact them then. Maybe they will give you a job.

[@michaelfrost1586]

To = roof Nenfwd = ceiling

[@AD-nx1xd]

Would understand you more if the pointless music didn't keep drowning you out! Haven't tried Duolingo bur did 2.5 years of Ylpan lessons until I realised this also was teaching a form of 'pigeon welsh'. Hardly anybody in my village understood anything I said and it wasn't me being useless. I was told by my tutors I was at GCSE pass standard! I am sure there must be a way of teaching proper Welsh and as a frustrated ex learner I hope they find it soon or even more incomers won't bother. I must admit that I understood the Welsh speakers even less than they understood me despite Ylpan being designed as a spoken rather than written Welsh course

[@emmuzboosh]

Mannnnn GCSE pass standard is literally nothing, I passed by welsh Gcse by writing out pemblwydd hapus, Gcse standard is nothing

[@LynRees]

Ye, tyl, 'sen i'n gweud bod 'da fe gar coch, dim bod ganddo fe gar goch. Ond fi'n gwybod be ti'n weud 😉

[@InstaSim6]

Wel ia mae hynny'n digon teg 🙂 "Ganddo fo" nes i ddysgu yn yr ysgol, ond ges i fy magu ar Sir Fôn felly dyna oedd yn berthnasol, mewn ffordd, i'r ardal. Jest tipyn o hwyl oedd y fideo mwy na ddim byd. Ers symud i fyw yn Wrecsam, dwi'n cael y dadl o "Teisen" vs "Cacen" yn aml, ond tynnu coes ydi hynny. Dwi'n gwybod bod y fideo ei hyn yn dod drosodd fel bod gen i broblem gyda iaith y de (ac mewn ffordd oedd hynny o bwrpas i fod yn onest i drio cael mwy o bobl i'w gwylio ac i roi barnau eu hunain drosodd am y fideo, ac mae hynny wedi gweithio'n wych dros ben), ond mewn gwirionedd, oni bai am ambell i beth bach, dwi'n meddwl bod iaith y de yn diddorol 🙂 Ond wedyn dwi'n meddwl bod y ffordd mae Duolingo yn ei ddysgu yn medru bod yn well gan does neb dwi'n adnabod, na neb rwyf wedi siarad hefo, hyd yn oed o de Cymru, yn siarad yn y modd mae Duolingo yn ei ddysgu.

[@jackcooper4998]

"this is all wrong" * is just not his dialect * bit clickbaity really

[@InstaSim6]

Not entirely sure where the clickbait is when the title is as the video presents 🤔 The nature of the InstaShiz series is that they're fairly silly and snappy and this video isn't really any different (albeit much shorter). There's nothing in particular that'll mislead people into clicking the video so not sure where the clickbait is.

[@rmcode]

Wow 'mutate' after a masculine noun!!!! Were you asleep in your Welsh lessons?

[@InstaSim6]

I don't know where you taught Welsh but I was taught "Mae ganddo fo/hi ", not "Mae gyda fo/hi", and from the many comments I've had on this video not many other people were taught this either (and this comes from a variety of people who live in the North and South). The item in question mutates (or "treiglo" if you prefer) depending on the subject. If the subject is masculine, then it's a soft mutation, if it's a feminine subject it's an aspirate mutation (or treiglad meddal and treiglad llaes respectively). I may have mixed up nouns and pronouns but this isn't the first video where I've made mistakes and it absolutely won't be the last. At the end of the day, this video was made for entertainment purposes. I was simply bored on a Saturday afternoon and thought I'd give it a go from a Fluent Welsh Speaker's perspective, since I've heard a lot about the course and I wanted to compare it with my own knowledge of Welsh. Whilst I would prefer that the Duolingo course taught Welsh correctly as opposed to what it currently teaches, I do value that the resource is available for people who want to get their foot in the door.

[@GreenGlassScarab]

@@InstaSim6 What if ... it is actually correct? And your histrionics about how terrible it is say more about your narrow view of the language?

[@InstaSim6]

If it's correct then why have countless other's commented on this video to say they've never heard anyone speak Welsh in the way that Duolingo teaches (and this includes people from South Wales which the Duolingo course seemingly teaches)? Don't you think it's better to teach languages so that, if you were to have a conversation with someone, they could actually understand what was being said? Then when you've learned the basics of the language, you can learn the conversational and informal aspects, leading to the various regional dialects. That's how most languages are taught and I don't see why that needs to be any different to Welsh. Personally, if someone is going to learn a language, they should learn the common language first before the more complex stuff. You don't build a house roof before you've laid the foundation.

[@rmcode]

@@InstaSim6 The National Centre for learning Welsh is the Welsh government funded agency that provides Welsh for adults classes all over Wales and now beyond with online classes. There are currently over 15,000 attending weekly classes and many thousands more attending one day learning events. Their centres are based in the Welsh departments of the universties in Wales and also the largest FE college, Coleg Gwent. Their courses have been developed over decades by the linguists in these Welsh departments. The Duolingo course was written by professional Welsh for adults lecturers working for these centres and is based on these standard spoken language courses. There are two main reasons why your commenters may not have recognised the patterns in the course. Firstly at present schools do not teach spoken standards so any second language learner, or fluent speakers in Welsh medium schools would only have learned the written standards....ie Rydych chi, instead of dych chi. People brought up speaking Welsh would have learned their local dialect which would vary considerably from the two standard spoken language courses. All the content used can be seen in the free coursebooks available here dysgucymraeg.cymru/dysgu/cwricwlwm-a-chwrslyfrau/

[@rmcode]

@@InstaSim6 masculine noun + adjective = no mutation, feminine noun + adjective = soft mutation, you are mixing this up with the possessive pronoun his and hers which are soft and aspirate as you suggest. Car coch, het goch....but... ei gar coch, ei char coch. Also there is no South bias as you suggest, all the English to Welsh translations can be answered with either of the main (North and South) spoken standards and some of the less standard ones too.

[@astonishing157]

bobl bach

[@gwillis01]

hello people

[@BiassedYT]

Cymraeg

[@jamieroberts4656]

Pancakes?

[@PierrePiguet-p1q]

Sorry! - your silly comments about South Welsh are preposterous, insulting: I can't say I admire you... I am a very devoted learner of Cymraeg, be it North or South, with already a very good grasp of both 'dialects'. Guess what: I learned two languages for the price of one and both are worthy of study, bobl bach!

[@InstaSim6]

I'm very glad to hear that you are a devoted learner of Cymraeg, whichever dialect that is and I also have a decent grasp of both dialects - there's good things and rather annoying things about both and plenty of other variations across different areas too This video just made exaggerated points about the Duolingo course, which I have since learned has different issues which I didn't discuss in this particular video as it was made for light-hearted entertainment. What dialect people learn and speak really makes no difference to me, and if someone wanted to make a video with similar points about North Wales Welsh then by all means, I'd encourage it

[@jandunn169]

Nope