Yankee Doodle Derby

[@FlyingScott]

Alternative title: Yankee Doodle Bowler Hat

[@olivercisneros1006]

Hi

[@DennisLora2001]

Great title

[@JohnDavies-cn3ro]

Loved this video for giving attention to one of my favourite 'forgotten' classes. They were bought during what was known as 'The Great Locomotive Famine', and weren't the only Yankees over here because of it. The Lynton & Barnstaple had 'Lyn', the Cork, Bandon & South Coast had at least one 0-6-2, which was one of the most awkward, ungainly looking hogs out - built to 5'3" gauge, and with quite high driving wheels. A couple of French railways had US engines too, high wheeled compound 4-4-0's similar to the NYC 999 to look at, while, although totally French in appearance, the Etat's first Pacifics were built in America - there's one in the museum at Mulhouse. The Royal Bavarian railways had four; a pair each of Atlantics and Consolidations, Baldwin Vauclain compounds which were totally US in appearance. Bought for trials and experimental purposes, one of the Consols lasted long enough to be seized as reparations in 1918. And please, don't forget the very first US engines to run in this country - the little Norris 4-2-0's which worked the Lickey Incline, some of which ended their days on the infant Taff Vale. Or the Baldwin ROD 4-6-0's, which went to various narrow gauge lines in Wales and other places after 1918.

[@JohnDavies-cn3ro]

PS - while reading the other comments, I remembered something. The stone quarries on Titterstone Clee in Shropshire had a little standard gauge 0-4-0 saddle tank, bought from the MOD in 1919, which worked the quarries on the summit. Like 590 on the Welsh Highland, it never lost its ROD number, and was cut up during the second world war. Also, contractors building the Great West Road out of London in the 1920s had at least one little Davenport narrow gauge 0-4-0 saddle tank, purchased from the same source.

[@chefchaudard3580]

To my knowledge : - there were also 221 (2901 to 2910) delivered to the Chemin de Fer de l’Etat, with the 220 (2800 to 2805) - the Pacific 4541 to 4570 (Alco)were for the PO (Chemin de fer de Paris à Orléans) and there were also some 230 (Baldwin, 4001 to 4084) which looked typically US, while the 231 were a French design. There were very popular before WWI, domestic manufacturers could not keep up with the demand and many locomotives were ordered abroad. After the war, locomotives were bought from GB and Germany mainly (as war reparations).

[@azuma892]

In the early days of railways in China and Japan, British steam locos were the most dominant, later they mostly switched to purchasing American or German designs. I guess the major factor is the ease of maintenance.

[@BriceInkling138]

I wish they still kept British locomotives in service because it's so unique how they run in China and Japan outside their region and continent of origin.

[@azuma892]

Museum Meiji-Mura (明治村) has two foreign 0-6-0s preserved in running order, one British and one American. Look that up.

[@newobanproductions]

While China and Japan turned away from the UK, further south was a far different story. My home country of Australia (which technically a former colony) developed a "buy British" policy and heavily bought UK locomotives with New South Wales Government Railways (NSWGR, the British Empire's 1st government railway) being a heavy customer from Manchester firm Beyer, Peacock & Co. NSWGR did have American designs even before Federation which resulted in what's now the "Commonwealth of Australia" which totalled 37 locomotives but...... let's say they weren't very liked it was to get rid of them (the 29 class 2-8-0s kind of copped it the worst as NSWGR "rebuilt the Baldwin out of them" despite outliving other US locos in NSWGR). In 1952, we ordered 20 "Mikados" (like the JNR class D51) based on the USATC S200 from WWII as oil-burners, which these engines became the "59 class"and they were pretty good engines, even after converting all but three to coal. Five still exist and one (No. 5917) is a regular mainline performer. However, Britain still wins out as NSWGR produced its last engine in 1950, which was a 58 class 4-8-2 (which those engines sucked compared to the 57 class that came before them) and the final UK engine for the railway delivered in 1956 being a 60 class 4-8-4+4-8-4 Garratt from Beyer Peacock. Like the UK, licenced EMDs and even Alcos (built by Clyde Engineering and AE Goodwin respectfully) became popular locomotives and quite a few of these "streamliners" are still running today in either heritage duties or commercial service. As for industrial service, a few US tank engines were brought over and became smash hits, with the 0-4-0Ts used by BHP Newcastle built by H. K. Porter being popular with the steelmill that they built their own copies of the design. Two of these (No. 4 and 16) survive, both proper Porters (doesn't help No. 16 is plinthed less than an hour from where I live).

[@steamtrainguy-365]

You just play the theme song and like everyone knows what you’re talking about perfection

[@biglittlerailroad874]

Nice to see these engines get some attention. The GWR also had some Cooke built tank engines they inherited from the amalgamated Barry and Port Talbot Railways. Their fortunes were a little bit better than Yankee Moguls.

[@RockyRailroadProductions_B0SS]

I think the Rhymney Railway had a few odd Cooke engines as well, big 0-8-2 tanks which were built like typical 2-8-0s of the era.

[@JohnDavies-cn3ro]

They did indeed - very handsome and successful engines, which were good enough for the GWR to reboiler them with standard Swindon boilers, and get some more use out of them.@@RockyRailroadProductions_B0SS

[@Sigil_Firebrand]

As an American: I GREATLY prefer UK steam locomotive and train design overall, though particularly that of the LMS and SR. Not to say that some US designs aren't impressive, but UK designs are so much more, elegant. It's why I have a OO gauge layout in my house too! Great video as always!

[@Apollo_Vanron]

Agreed.

[@Pure_Havoc.]

Did anyone else notice the USA scotsman, apposed the regular A1 shown in the intro of (mostly) every video?

[@physiocrat7143]

You might say that the GWR 4300 class is a British take on the US Moguls, as well as all the 2-6-2 and 2-6-4 tanks, so perhaps they did have a lasting influence. Then there were all the Southern, LMS, LNER and BR Standard Moguls, and the LBSC Class K.

[@lordvader1672]

I absolutely love the look of the moguls sent to MR, GCR, and GNR they remind me so much of moguls built around the 1880s here in the states

[@JohnDavies-cn3ro]

So they should! Basically they were straight off the peg US moguls, with British d raw and buffing gear - and, yes, as a Limey I like them too.

[@steel5543]

America vs British debates? I sleep. The times where they actually worked with each other? Now we've got a good topic

[@legdig]

Good job on the research for this one! Someone pronouncing Derby right brings joy to my frosted over heart.

[@ChrisLShack1998]

I personally love both UK and US locomotives.

[@AW.Dry_and_Co.]

There was also the Baldwin 10-36-E/ General Psershing class, but idk if they actually ran in the UK or just in Europe

[@JohnDavies-cn3ro]

I think the Pershings only ran in France, where they lasted a very long time!

[@RainShadow-yi3xr]

Nice to finally see a video about these engines, too bad its punctuated by dumb jabs. also, these engines have no article on Wikipedia or Loco Wiki, but they do have one on the German Britische Bahn Wiki, which is pretty silly imo

[@TheSudrianTerrier653]

“The comments section will eat me alive if I don’t mention the S100s saw service, alongside *thomas theme intensifies* “

[@seangabrielreyes4614]

trains

[@themanformerlyknownascomme777]

eh, less "saw service alongside" and more "completely replaced"

[@DiscothecaImperialis]

6:07 Mutated American engine :P built not with American railroading tradition.

[@thecaledoniansleeper2648]

I think this engine is what inspired Australia to create a mixture of British and American locomotive designs.

[@ArthurAndNormandyFan1]

Not really, the NSWGR had already introduced American locomotives by the 1870s, starting with the U/S 105 class 4-4-0 of 1877, and then a goods version following in 1879. Two more classes of 2-6-0 by Baldwin followed in 1885 (K and L classes) and then finally the Z23 and Z29 classes of 1891. The South Australian Railways introduced their 1st O class, a Baldwin 2-8-0 in 1881, along with the N class Baldwin 4-6-0s and the Baldwin narrow gauge 2-6-0 X class. Queensland Railways introduced their first American locos in 1878 as the small A12 4-4-0 Baldwins, a year later Baldwin two 2-8-0 classes would be introduced as the C13 and C15 classes. In 1880 the 2-6-0 Baldwin B11 class was introduced. In 1882 the 2-8-0 C16 class was introduced alongside the normal A12 which was built until 1891. The reason for so many American locomotives were purchased was due not only to shortages but also distance, it was 'quicker' and cheaper to buy American stock under the circumstances, these all came before the MR, GNR, and GCR imported 2-6-0s in 1899, so I doubt that their export to the UK would've impacted Australian design at all, most had gone by 1915, in comparison the earlier imports by Australia lasted longer in operation in that country (though not all on a government system) which was how American design choices began influencing the design of Australian locos.

[@Marco-xz9sc]

I want one of the MR 2501 or 2511 in OO

[@TylerMcNamer]

That's pretty cool! I didn't know General Motors did trains. Thought it was just automobiles. I learned something today! Thank you. Hello from The States!

[@themanformerlyknownascomme777]

General Motors owned EMD from it's begining all the way up to 2005.

[@LegoMiester14]

5:36 was the funniest part,😂😆

[@RockyRailroadProductions_B0SS]

I love these locos as they very much fall under typical American builder practice of the era, especially with Baldwin, which was to make bespoke locomotive designs using otherwise standardized lines of thought, for example, engines built by Baldwin, H.K. Porter, and Schenectady etc for use in Japan on the JGR were built to the 42" gauge track and loading gauge, with the couplers etc to match up with Japanese rolling stock, but were otherwise very typically American looking machines. My favorite instance of a US loco escaping to Britain is the case of the "Lovett Eames", a Reading railroad 4-2-2 camelback built to make the run from Atlantic City to Philadelphia, which was in competition with the Pennsylvania Railroad during the 1870s. The Reading commissioned this 4-2-2 (Their no. 507) from Baldwin with a special steam cylinder in the frames which would shift the loco's weight a bit to press the driving wheels down harder when starting off, and then ease back once the lightweight 4-car train was up and moving. The goal here was, unlike a typical 4-4-0, this big 4-2-2 could have a wide anthracite waste-burning firebox while still having large diameter drivers for speed. Unfortunately, somehow or another, Baldwin was not paid in full for their work (507 being Baldwin's 5000th engine and used for some publicity photos, somehow the Reading assumed that gave them a "discount" on the engine?) Baldwin ended up taking the loco back, and, a 4-2-2 is a hard sell to any other American railroad, the Reading being the only road I can think of with a fleet of them, so it sat around for a while until the Eames Vacuum Brake Company bought it to haul their exhibition cars. On a tour of the railways of Britain, because by the 1880s, it was clear that Westinghouse's air brake was winning the US market. So it was cut down and shipped over to run on the Great Northern Railway to offer some demonstrations of these vacuum brakes, and somehow afterwards, it vanished off the face of the Earth. I have an HO model of this weird little loco and sometimes it plays with 'Lord of the Isles'.

[@JohnDavies-cn3ro]

'Lovett Eames' was left behind when Eames pulled out of GB, and was cut up for scrap. Her bell is (I believe) still in the possession of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers.

[@RockyRailroadProductions_B0SS]

@@JohnDavies-cn3ro Amazing, I didn't know anything from the loco survived!

[@firstnamlastnam2141]

The GNR example is really nice looking, it's such a shame they weren't successful.

[@trainworms]

would be interesting to look at continental locos in the uk like the GWR Atlantics

[@HyperCat72]

I love me some American trains in Britain

[@00Zy99]

It's really not fair to compare the US locomotives to draft horses. The US produced plenty of pure-bred express passenger locomotives. Some of the Reading's fast camelbacks (ten-wheelers and Atlantics) are contenders for the first locomotives to reach 100 mph. And the Milwaukee Road's Hiawatha locomotives were the only ones ever TIMETABLED for 100 mph (ie-they had to run at 100 mph daily to stay on schedule, AND THEY DID). Of course, the US produced plenty of locomotives that were intended for passenger work that ended up also being good at freight-the Union Pacific FEF series (800s) and the Norfolk and Western J class (600s) stand out. The FEFs were designed for 100 mph+ and did so regularly (with some reasonably credible reports of 110-120). And yet you can find plenty of footage of them (especially 844, which is still operational and has NEVER been retired) hauling freight, even into the modern era (there's a rather famous clip of 844 rescuing a stranded freight train in 1990s). The J class were built with an elegant streamlined casing, easily touched 100+ (nobody knows their top speed because they have never been recorded as working hard at any speed the track permitted), and are definite contenders for the finest steam locomotives ever built (along with the South African Red Devil and the BR 8 and 9F). But they too could do freight work, dragging coal trains through the mountains on lines that make Shap and Beattock look like a billiard table. It would also be interesting to examine the cases of US design having an influence on British designs-look at Churchward, Gresley, and Riddles.

[@FlyingScott]

The comment regarding horses is moreso taking into account that, inevitably, people will point to the Pennsy K4s, Reading's Mountains, Lima's Berkshires, anything the UP ran, you name it. The trend with people who even dare to assume US and UK (or any other railway's engines pitted against another's, really) are comparable don't actually know what they are talking about, or do so out of bad faith and/or a sense of one-upmanship when that is the last thing our hobby needs. I do happen to know the Bristolian also was timetabled for 100mph, with Great Western's Castles and Kings being able to achieve it. It was the only steam hauled express on BR to have that distinction, though.

[@davefrompa5334]

The Santa Fe 3776/2900 class and New York Central Niagaras were also excellent fast passenger and freight locomotives, by any standard.

[@caelumvaldovinos5318]

I think it's more appropriate to think of the comparison to American engines tending to be absolute monsters in size and phenomenally powerful at the cost of being hungry and thirsty while the British engines tend to be more petite, efficient designs at the cost of power.

[@00Zy99]

@@caelumvaldovinos5318 American engines tended to consume fuel and water at roughly the same rate (or better) when compared to their British counterparts, relative to their size. The difference is that the US locomotives were generally traveling MUCH longer distances with vastly heavier loads, which meant that they needed larger tenders and consumed more fuel. The UK never had a need for a locomotive that could go almost 1000 miles at a time, but the New York Central, Santa Fe, Northern Pacific, and others regularly did just that. Take the New York Central Niagara versus the Flying Scotsman: The Niagara burns twice as much fuel per mile, but delivers twice the tractive effort. But the Niagara did more work-a higher availability rate, and traveling longer distances. So if we assume the same task, then an American engine will burn about as much as a British one of equivalent size. The success of the S100s on both the SR and in preservation are a good example-especially bearing in mind that they were wartime Austerity designs, not reflective of best practice. They were generally regarded as capable and well-liked, aside from their limited coal capacity!

[@00Zy99]

Bear in mind, also, that American coal tended to be of a lower grade than British coal. You have to account for the lower calorific value-each pound of coal consumed generally delivered less energy in the US than it did in Britain.

[@andrewsmith6563]

Can you please do Alan Pegler Presents: Flying Scotsman - Still in Steam (1963) in Source Film Maker with Flying Scotsman in British Railways Dark Locomotive Green Paint as No. 60103 and old London North Eastern Railway Apple Green Paint and No. 4472, Flying Scott?

[@FlyingScott]

So along with asking me to make every Standard 5 under the sun for you for SFM every 14 days, you're now asking for an entire 20 minute documentary in Source Filmmaker? If you want me to make those so badly, pay me. End of.

[@andrewsmith6563]

@@FlyingScott I'll gladly pay you back.

[@cheyvengeance5432]

Love the video however the GWR had some S160’s at one point 😊

[@Mason58654]

I always love American 🇺🇸 locomotives built for foreign rails. @4:58 Japan for instance at first relied on imported British engines, but later American locomotives began outselling their British counterparts due to faster delivery times (backlogs of British locomotives necessitated this) and I like seeing US locos with buffers and screw couplings. Can’t have too many of those. 👍

[@YJRail]

I knew of the Midland moguls but not the Great Northern or Great Central ones, the GNR ones look sharp

[@GeneralHeavy]

3:11 Isn't that the model James is based of?

[@jaredhebert942]

Unfortunately, the Great Northern H1 class built by Baldwin was not the basis for James (though that would be a fun custom if that had a ready-to-run model); James was/is an experimental 2-6-0 mogul build of the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway's Class 28 0-6-0 tender engines (the pilot wheels ahead of the drive wheels were an effort to mitigate the 28s' rough-riding), but his results weren't quite what the L&YR needed, so he was quietly sold to the North Western Railway on Sodor right as the Grouping Act of 1923 took hold (L&YR merging into the London, Midland & Scottish Railway/LMS); James had his first accident in the field (& his wooden brake blocks) soon after hitting NWR rails, Thomas rescued him, and The Rest is History

[@GeneralHeavy]

@@jaredhebert942 I see

[@northernblue1093]

What is the significance of the Eurostar trains that you showed twice?

[@FlyingScott]

Not so much the units as the location: London St. Pancras, the old terminus of the Midland Railway.

[@DangerAngelous]

Man the GNR moguls look too much like a funky edit

[@joshslater2426]

For me, UK trains were the peak of steam in terms of design and history.

[@awesome-xk8vj]

Can you make the BR Class 17.

[@specialfunnelstudios5523]

Hey I feel a good model for you that’s a little unusual but still prototypical for Scotland. The Bachmann 56xx I have one and it’s probably my favorite model and I know 2 were allocated to Scotland during br days could make for an interesting video

[@FlyingScott]

There were two 1600s allocated to the Dornoch branch, the only 5600 to ever go to Scotland did so in 2017.

[@specialfunnelstudios5523]

@@FlyingScott oh that’s my fault got the two mixed up

[@specialfunnelstudios5523]

Don’t know why I thought it was a 56

[@JohnDavies-cn3ro]

At least one 28xx class 2-8-0 was loaned to the North British during the Great War, to help working 'Jellicoe Specials' to Scapa.

[@caledonianrailway1233]

Did we send anything to America

[@jaredhebert942]

John Bull for the Baltimore & Ohio in the 1830s was a British machine IIRC

[@biglittlerailroad874]

The James Toleman, a one off duplex from 1893.

[@HazelReserveUnit]

There’s a handful of British-built locomotives sent to the USA and Canada in the 1830s-1850s.

[@gamerfan8445]

In the early days of steam.

[@Train_Tok_Man]

@@jaredhebert942John Bull wasn’t for the B&O. It was for the Camden and Amboy Railroad.

[@Londontransitduck]

London Brighton and south coast railway forever

[@craniel1]

I truly don't fully understand the comparisons between American and British railway's. with little more than a cursory glance one could easily see real differences, and realize just as was said these aren't meant to be compared at all. consider flying scotsman and 4501 in '68, 4501 an older loco sporting 53,900IBS of tractive effort while only the LNER Garrett u1 had more at 72,000IBS.

[@FlyingScott]

A trend amongst those who deem comparing the two worth their time is that they don't really know what they are talking about ;)

[@roboftherock]

@@FlyingScott How true, sir; how true.

[@olivercisneros1006]

Hi

[@IndianaNorthWestern]

Uk and Us steam can't really be compared imo; one side was built to be small, fast and get as much power as they could from a "small" sized locomotive while looking clean from a design standpoint, and the other was built to get as much power as possible, size be damned, and to do work day in day out and to be cheap and easy to work on as possible. Yeah it's exactly like comparing a thoroughbred race horse to a draft horse, but in reality the draft horse is on steroids the faster it goes. Un-needed unwanted American opinion rant thing over.

[@JohnDavies-cn3ro]

Harry Holdcroft, Churchward's deputy on the GWR studied US practice, and introduced them on a number of their GWR designs. Gresley's conjugated valve gear went the other way, being employed on a class of Union Pacific 4-12-2s.

[@DuckyLTD69]

"After all, everythings made differently" COUGH COUGH Great western COUGH COUGH

[@True_NOON]

Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying Ying