F33A Bonanza vs Cirrus SR22T: Which is Faster?

[@connectpro1264]

Another great one Rich. Bonanzas were always ahead of their time. It would be so nice to see more of these comparison flights maybe also with Light Twins. Thanks for sharing.

[@FlyingwithRich]

Will do - thanks for watching!

[@FlightSimVRDad]

Nice side by side. With all being equal having fixed gear is a bonus in my book. Less to worry about for the same performance.

[@billkinzler3773]

Thanks for the comparison. Transitioned from Mooney M20E, 182, to a Cirrus G3 (non-turbo) with 3 flights this summer from Florida to Illinois and appreciate the air conditioning, 92 gallon range with a few trips nonstop. It’s a comfortable ride.👍

[@smacfe]

Very cool. I’ve got two words for that Bonanza - Tornado Alley.

[@fly-n-m9445]

Only if you need to fly high😊. For us flat land pilots, not so much.😉

[@timmartin6410]

Even though I lack the cubic dollars to buy an airplane, still fun to watch Rich's videos.

[@J.T..]

Thanks for posting Rich. If I had to pick one right now I am going with the Bonanza. 👍 Of course I could change my mind tomorrow.😊

[@Resort_Fans]

Awesome real-world testing! I miss flying my A36!

[@michaelmartin8331]

Rich - watch all of your videos and love the way you approach all. Just sold my 2022 SR22T. It was definitely faster than previous models. At 10k and 75% power, I was at 185 KTAS. In 1 year, hope to move up. I look at the M2 or TBM. I would be really curious to see a video depicting the estimated annual costs for a TBM 930 vs Citation M2. I know you say it’s not the much more for the M2 but from what I can see between maintenance programs, fuel, training, etc it is about 2 1/2 times more for an M2 vs the TBM.

[@FlyingwithRich]

Send me an e-mail and I can get that to you. We have a client who had a 900 and now operates an M2.

[@johnwright8137]

Rich, I’m also considering the TBM vs M2. I’ll email you as well.

[@FlyingwithRich]

@johnwright8137 I’ll be in touch.

[@ericsd55]

Another great vid. Love the Cirri because it is a great new plane. Love the 33's because they def have the looks. I'll stick with my D55 and the absurd fuel burn, and the spare engine, and extra mx, and ramp appeal, and how sexy it looks sitting in the hangar lol.

[@IHaulBoxes]

Love those F33A's! 1 POB Cirrus 2 POB Bonanza. It hauls!

[@daviddefelice6997]

Rich, find yourself a turbonormalized Bonanza & compare it to that cirrus. If he was LOP, he was probably giving up 5-10 knots. The other way I think might have improved the comparison would have been to do the flight below 7000' where the turbo isn't as much of a factor and you could still have gotten full manifold pressure. Either way, thanks for the video - I'm always looking forward to them.

[@FlyingwithRich]

Cirrus gives a recommended lean bug on FF so we used that, and 8500 for real world experience. Thanks for watching!

[@StanleyDemski]

Love my io550b F33A. Thanks for this comparison. I will keep on flying Bonanza!

[@FlyingwithRich]

Good call - F33A at the top of the list for me as well!

[@Tufelhunden85]

As always Rich, really great videos!

[@FlyingwithRich]

Thank you!

[@mjobmi]

Well done Rich I like to do similar comparisons with my 2008 Honda Civic and my 2022 Mazda CX-5 The Civic holds its own in city traffic but get out on the highway the CX really cruises. The Civic is of course running lean of peak so gets little better MPG. Wish I actually had a plane to compare with. Good job

[@lostinasia25]

I got my Private in 1974 @ 17 years old on my birthday. The best of times in General Aviation. GI Bill was used by many. The bigger question back then was you either were a Cessna High Wing guy or Piper Low Wing guy. You typically stayed and moved up in the same brand Cesena vs Piper. Fixed Gear vs Retract. Overall, the Cessna 210 turbo was a great insturment platform. Most of my time was in the Piper Comanche 260.

[@wilzboyz]

Very educational video for a couple 4-seaters. I’ve flown a G2 SR22, but not a bonanza. Now in a DA62 which hits 190-192 TAS at the altitudes I fly (up to 17-19000). On 17g/h roughly.

[@FlyingwithRich]

I forgot to mention that F33A has a 5th seat so really ahead of its time. I fit in that seat!

[@FlyingNDriving]

@@FlyingwithRichwe need a video of you back there lounging!

[@travishibbard4705]

I compared my F33A IO-520 to my step dad’s SR22 G2 NA IO-550 and we are also nearly identical in cruise. His does climb a little faster with a 4 blade prop. Have a buddy with a 182RG with a o-470 and he also has nearly identical performance.

[@williamkennedy2069]

I wondered about the 182rg, thanks for the info. Wonder if we put a IO550 in there, what will occur

[@FlyingNDriving]

That 182rg turbo normalized? That’s pretty impressive and a more apples to apples with both being NA.

[@travishibbard4705]

182rg is NA

[@williamkennedy2069]

@@travishibbard4705 why?

[@edwardtyson4746]

Different airplanes for different markets. Those that find the Cirrus appealing couldn’t careless about the performance of a Bonanza. The avionics, modern looks, and parachute appeal to those folks. And for the loyal Bonanza crowd, a Cirrus fitted with a parachute, avionics of a light jet, yet offers the same performance of a Bonanza won’t get a look. Each aircraft can be admired for what it is

[@ATH_Berkshire]

Lots and lots of Bonanza’s are getting avionics very similar to a Cirrus year. It’s apparently getting harder and more expensive to keep up with the maintenance of old instruments and radios.

[@CliffordStaley]

The only people who care are those left behind when the cirrus can’t carry them.

[@gendaminoru3195]

Imagine an intercooled TN kit for the IO-550, then you'd pull away from the gear welded down bird... Nice vid Rich and Co.

[@FlyingwithRich]

Thanks and I think you are correct!

[@davidrose3326]

Another great video RICH ! I will take the Bonanza any day over the Cirrus. At least the Bonanza passed spin certification tests without a parachute ! When my power ball hits tonight, I will call you Monday morning !! Lol

[@FlyingwithRich]

Talk to you Monday!

[@captgrant]

Another good one Rich. So I wonder just how long a composite aircraft will last? A few knots to me isn't worth the hundreds of thousands in price difference. You can outfit the Bonanza to meet all your needs, plus retractable gear is just way cooler. Remember that in the Big Leagues they are still struggling with Composite materials and repairs, ie, paint layers separating, way more costly to paint. So down the road, you can rebuild 99% of a Bonanza, can you do the same in a Cirrus? Just add a turbo to the Bonanza and then see what's what.

[@Alexander_K777]

Exactly, in 50 years we can see Bonanzas around but I doubt to see that many Cirruses around.

[@tstanley01]

I would be more worried about the integrated avionics tied to the type certificate of the airplane. I know they look cool when they are new, but in 20 years when we are 3 generations ahead in the standard avionics market, it is going to cost more than the value of the airplane up update the G1000...

[@FlyingwithRich]

Interesting perspective - probably could say the same thing about airplanes today. You could easily spend $100K today on avionics in a 182 that was $75K new. Thanks for watching!

[@EtiRats]

Hey Rich that was a great video, thanks. Another way of getting a like for like set of numbers is set each aircraft to the same engine power percentage. That way both engines are delivering the same amount of effort, say 75% for example, and then compare True Air Speed alongside each other. Which is pretty much what you were doing by setting typical cruise powers …. For comparison, and of no real relevance to your test, our 1965 Comanche 260 with its IO540 yesterday delivered 160kt true at a pretty economical 11.2gph LOP. But that’s at a very leisurely 51% power at 10,000’, OAT +1C. Adding more fuel burn would probably get me closer to 170kt, but hey, in a 58 year old plane, what’s the rush! 😅 Keep ‘em coming, love what you do.

[@N66VV]

Rich, Great Video - Very helpful practical performance comparison. Thanks for sharing.

[@FlyingwithRich]

Thank you! Glad you like it.

[@wayne9638]

very interesting, love the sound of the bonanza

[@KurtStevens-yi1jo]

The retracting landing gear is the sexiest thing on any airplane. Wow!! I don't care which is faster as long as the gear comes up and DOWN.

[@terrypedersen7]

Very interesting video. Loyd would be thrilled to see the exposure his old plane is getting if he was still with us. I keep thinking maybe that plane belongs back in Northern Ontario.

[@brianb5594]

Great test! Since the Cirrus is a turbo not exactly apples to apples comparison. I bet the F33 would hold its own with a normally aspirated SR22. Great video Rich as always!

[@texsurfer]

agree

[@r1doc1]

Agreed!

[@r1doc1]

The only true comparison would be both planes at 75% power at 6000 feet where the bonanza is able to make 75% power normally aspirated. At 8500 feet the cirrus is making 85% power while the bonanza’s probably around 60% power. The air frame effect on TAS can be determined. But I can see the point of real world use. 8500 feet is a common altitude for traveling in both planes. The problem is, if you’re a bonanza owner, you want your bonanza shown in the best possible light just like a cirrus owner. For the record, I have a IO550B V35B.

[@inquisitive980]

Great day for a drag race.

[@brimopm]

Had an S-35 with the IO520 that routinely would achieve 178kt TAS on 13GPH R.O.P. Speed benefits in cruise were often lost in busy airspace due to instructions to slow to sequence with 130kt traffic 10mi out. Love the Bonanza for design, functionality and quality, which is why they are still desirable today. Five decades later and 3x the cap-x price yields only even performance all things considered.

[@kasm10]

Kinda reminds me of the findings when comparing a mooney 201 J vs a 231 K

[@ictpilot]

Rich, when you were overtaking him initially, why didn't you just barrel roll over him to slowdown? 😂😂

[@henrymullin1836]

This video goes good with Reno going on this week as well hahah.

[@FlyingwithRich]

I’m at Reno now - fun but sad, last time here.

[@FlyingNDriving]

14:05 The Mooney turbo acclaim is the fastest certified piston single, it’s also the only single airplane I’ve seen that publishes 200kts+ TAS numbers in breathable air (10.5+)

[@a8337z]

Great airplane an fast but useful load is an important number by the time the acclaim carries 1000 lbs of people or stuff the a36 with tips will more than double its speed.

[@nunyabidness3075]

@@a8337zAre you using the same fuel load? That doesn’t sound correct.

[@andreasbacher2695]

I also own a 1991 F33A with the IO 550 B and love it as regards performance, comfort, and baggage capacitiy (e.g., like to bring our Brompton bikes with us everywhere we go). Had a G500 Txi and the GFC 500 AP installed recently, combined with traffic awareness, two Avidyne WAAS GNSS, stormscope, new interior, it does not fall back to a new Cirrus in my opinion.

[@FlyingwithRich]

Sounds very nice! Thanks for watching!

[@andreasbacher2695]

@@FlyingwithRich Thank you for this video Rich, liked it, watched it even twice!

[@Curshh]

Super fun to watch!

[@FlyingwithRich]

Thank you!

[@PILOTCIRRUSASIA]

Both amazing aircaft but there’s a reason cirrus sold 539 Srxx and Textron only 42 Bonanza in 2022. Ones a little more last century

[@CFI-King]

Awesome video, looks like a fin flight. I'm curious why the bonanza went rich of peak while the cirrus was LOP? Wouldn't it not be apples to apples in that case since the bonanza was leaned for power and the cirrus for economy?

[@FlyingwithRich]

Good question - l could fly the Bonanza LOP, but I chose to fly it ROP (personal preference on the new engine). Cirrus normal procedure is to lean per their FF pre determined on their engine set up. Thanks for watching!

[@jonasbaine3538]

I think the modern cockpit and parachute play a larger role for buyers than outright performance numbers.

[@FlyingwithRich]

Could be true, but you can upgrade older aircraft with avionics from Garmin at least as good as G1000 NXI - some may argue better!

[@texsurfer]

Amazing time capsule. Can't remember seeing a "newish" bonanza with no electric trim or autopilot.

[@FlyingwithRich]

Rare airplane, ready for the new avionics!

[@noyfub]

Never flown a Cirrus, but I bet it can't beat the Bonanza for flying qualities.

[@FlyingwithRich]

I like that F33A Bonanza a lot!

[@chrisaviator2337]

Absolutely true 👍😎

[@SI-lg2vp]

My choice is the Bonanza hand down. Bonanza's are a solid airplane to fly, lots of cabin space and great visibility. Cirrus is a plane that attracts the younger crowd. Both are out of my range for price. If I want to a better choice I would build an RV-10. It would be nice to have 4 seats, but my build will be the Van's RV-15 when it become available as a more utility airplane at a more affordable price.

[@dvukovic]

I've only sat in A36, and let me tell you, the plane is so cramped that it's unbelieveable. I am not a tall person (just shy of 6ft) and I couldn't sit upright in the pilot seat without crouching slightly because my head is bumping into the ceiling. And not to talk about entering trough the right hand door. If there was a need for just one door, wouldn't it make sense to make it on the left side??!? In comparison to that, SR22 even if you sit in the back, your head doesn't touch the ceiling, the seat is all the way back you still have plenty of room for the legs. And there is shoulder to shoulder spacing which is far greater in Cirrus, in front headroom is even greater. Bonanzas are great planes, proven platforms, but I don't get it why would someone compare those two, they are almost apples and oranges.

[@Kaktus965]

@@dvukovic The seat wasn’t adjusted correctly then. Unless you’re a 9’ giant, the Bonanza is widely known to have ample headroom….

[@dvukovic]

@@Kaktus965 I had plenty of headroom on the back facing seat, but pilot's seat is much higher and I haven't noticed option to adjust the height.

[@FlyingNDriving]

@@Kaktus965I could never sit high enough to see enough of the cowl AND not bump my headset with the tapered egg shape fuselage of the 58baron/36Bonanza without doing some sort of weird lean to the center. I think headroom is lacking in the Bo in its class

[@Kaktus965]

@@FlyingNDriving Cool. More Beeches for the rest of us then 👋

[@flysport_tedder]

9:35 "rich of peak", found your new second channel name!

[@FlyingwithRich]

I wish I would have thought of that!

[@smark1180]

Ignoring everything else, the SR22 looks like a kit plane while Bonanzas looks like a "real" airplane.

[@r1doc1]

The only true comparison would be both planes at 75% power at 6000 feet where the bonanza is able to make 75% power normally aspirated. At 8500 feet the cirrus is making 85% power while the bonanza’s probably around 60% power. The air frame effect on TAS can be determined. But I can see the point of real world use. 8500 feet is a common altitude for traveling in both planes. The problem is, if you’re a bonanza owner, you want your bonanza shown in the best possible light just like a cirrus owner. For the record, I have a IO550B V35B.

[@kurtdobson]

Ive flown all the bonanzas and the sr20 and sr22. But one must ask how much faster a turbo RG SR22 would be.

[@FlyingwithRich]

Seems like Cirrus engineers don’t see the benefit of retractable gear. Thanks for watching!

[@karlr6810]

Let's see...a Bonanza/Cherokee Six/Saratoga or a Cirrus...the Bonanza/Saratoga will out-carry a Cirrus any day of the week, and that's more important, at least to me. Oh, and that castering front wheel crud from Cirrus? Pass...I'll take direct linkage, thank you very much. Thanks for sharing, Rich 🍻

[@brianmacey6670]

Makes me feel so good to have a Lancair IV-P it's not even funny. Yeah, it's apples to oranges, but I can count on 225 KTAS at 9,000, 260 KTAS at FL250. I was a CSIP and only had about 120 hours in Cirri, but 3 of the airframes I flew subsequently had parachute deployments. Go figure the odds of that. I must be very fortunate indeed.

[@CWasserott]

Would love to do that comparison with my Lancair ES. At 8.5k, ROP ram air open, i just saw 169k IAS with 193 TAS at about 16.9GPH 2500 RPM. LOP (11.5GPH) and at 2400 RPM about 10 -12 slower. But those numbers are on a different day/temp/hg...which was 8degree C, 30.15hg. Also at 21.5 MP.

[@FlyingwithRich]

Bring it to Long Beach and we will fly it!

[@paulciprus9582]

Bonanza….built Beech tough keep in mind the Stagger wing was actually faster than the Bonanza…but back then, if you flew a Bonanza …you were real class….😊.

[@topofthegreen]

nice to see a steam guage aircraft, they are easier to fly and the steam guages areless expensive to repair and I feel more reliable.

[@MichaelJanzen]

Great idea for a video.

[@tstanley01]

TAT TN kit on that Bonanza and the Cirrus becomes irrelevant if you don't care about the chute...

[@txflydude]

Comparing a turbo Cirrus to a non-turbo Bonanza is not really a apples-to-apples comparison. You should either compare an SR22 to an F33A or an SR22T to a turbo-normalized F33A

[@FlyingwithRich]

The comparison wasn’t really intended to be anything more than it was - comparing an F33A Bonanza which is 30+ years old, to a current production SR22T - that’s pretty much it. The reality is with all the “new technology” and turbo charging, at altitudes which are pretty common for both turbo and non-turbo charged single engine piston aircraft, the SR22T isn’t a whole lot faster than the “older technology”, 30+ year old Bonanza.

[@brandthershman4088]

Watching from the sidelines, the Mooney Acclaim says “hold my beer”

[@CaptainOscarLosada]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@brimopm]

My A36tc would be more apples to apples @ 8,500'. Prob pass him up!

[@stevemuterspaugh8821]

Beech needs to build the F33s and V35 bonanzas again. We have to much LIABILITY created by sue happy Lawyers and frivolous LAWSUITS. THE BONANZA LOOKS AWESOME. THE SR is ugly and fixed gear plus crazy expensive.

[@AviatorJosh]

Great video. Unfortunately both of these beauties are using outdated power plants designed in the 1940s. Update both for the 21st century with modern FADEC controlled Diesel engines.

[@PILOTCIRRUSASIA]

Rumoured G7 Sr22 with be diesel next year but I’m not that sure ..I think Covid delayed any real developments.

[@MrCobb-rq8iv]

Butt, if the Bon had a turbo the Cirrus can't keep up in any respect, correct?

[@FlyingwithRich]

In that case, I think the Bonanza would outrun it at higher altitudes.

[@MrCobb-rq8iv]

TY Sire, I would prefer the Bon for many reasons. Now if I could get one with STOL characteristics that would be sick..... @@FlyingwithRich

[@cyrouskhavari969]

I personally, believe, Beech Bonanazas are by far superior aircrafts, in every way, than Cirrus.

[@nunyabidness3075]

The build quality of Beech back in the day was reputed to be superior. Since I got contacted a few times to consult on lawsuits against Beech in the 2000’s, I’m going to have to be skeptical that still holds true. Given a couple decades and varying use and abuse, it just doesn’t matter by manufacturer. You’ll need to evaluate plane by plane. When I sold planes, I generally told people not to count on published speeds too much. Choose a class of plane based on speed if it’s important, but then try to ignore small differences. The next most overrated thing is useful load. Like speed, the books are a bit misleading. Flying one near gross is going to be different than another. Full fuel load is similarly an overrated spec unless the plane is going to be in an operation where it must be refueled to full after each flight. Finally, since I’m here, the fourth seat is a pretty rarely used item unless you have two kids. Buyers most always overestimate how often the back seats will get used at all.

[@PILOTCIRRUSASIA]

Apart from in Safety .. Speed … Comfort ..

[@johnm8693]

I have really enjoyed your content for a long time. Unfortunately KZbin's decision to demonetize Russel Brand over what are - at this point - mere allegations forces me to unsubscribe from every channel on KZbin. I wish you the best of luck and thank you for the content.

[@FlyingwithRich]

I understand - thanks for the message!

[@paulciprus9582]

P-51 says….hold my beer…will blow both of these out of the sky…..😊.

[@sammymanuel5609]

It wasn't really clear who was the fastest or are they both the same

[@FlyingwithRich]

Cirrus was a little bit faster but not too much. It accelerated at a faster rate, but once the F33A accelerated, it was a pretty close race.

[@aviatorel32]

I wish there was a Columbia in this mix. They seem to be slightly more aerodynamic than Cirruses, it would be cool to see real world comparison.

[@heavyizthacrown-5842]

Cirrus is way better, the Bonanza has retractable gear and still got dusted. The only reason to purchase an older aircraft like this is if you can’t afford something new. These old planes stood the test of time but NO four-seater piston can touch that Cirrus.

[@FlyingwithRich]

Calculate value based on acquisition cost divided by cruise speed and then remind me which airplane gets dusted.

[@mikecournoyer]

Where did you guys get that bonanza? Borrowed from the Smithsonian?

[@minnesnowtan9970]

A Bonanza never gets grounded due to parachute repacks (every 10 years) because the Chinese company (Cirrus) does not keep spares in stock. Better off with a Diamond, safer, but Bonanzas are hard to beat.

[@paulciprus9582]

Cirrus…landing gear down and welded…..🤣🤣.

[@lakeguy65616]

shouldn't you have chosen an engine setting where both were burning the same GPH...

[@FlyingwithRich]

We chose normal cruise power settings for both airplanes and reported fuel flows for comparison. The resultant fuel flows were basically the same.

[@waynesilva3129]

Speed isn’t everything.

[@FlyingwithRich]

On this test it was!

[@MrBe787]

Mooney Acclaim is still fastest

[@FlyingwithRich]

True!

[@747driver3]

Nope. Mooney Ovation.

[@ictpilot]

Cirrus might be faster but you'll burn more fuel. The Bonanza is still the high performance piston single that everybody benchmarks to.

[@PILOTCIRRUSASIA]

Not this century. There’s a reason cirrus has been the most sold GA aircraft over the last 20years !

[@ictpilot]

@@PILOTCIRRUSASIA Who do you think Cirrus benchmarked off of?

[@PILOTCIRRUSASIA]

Cirrus created new composite aircraft with the worlds best safety features .. bonanza was good and still a good aircraft but it’s basically not changed in 80years .. it really is like comparing an old 70s Cadillac vs a new Mercedes in my opinion ..

[@ictpilot]

@@PILOTCIRRUSASIA Parachute, big deal, don't care. Bonanza is so good why change it except for minor improvements.

[@PILOTCIRRUSASIA]

@@ictpilotchutes a big deal to the 200+ people alive today because of it ..comical.

[@NathanBarber-zb4ez]

Who cares?