FN Browning Hi Power Trigger Mechanism: Simple, Clever, Sometimes Awful!

[@funkla65]

Yeah, the first time I took down my FEG Hi-Power clone, that rocker bar was the exciting design element. It's such an elegantly simple multi-function device. Not sure you mentioned this, but as disconnecters go, it's one of the most sensitive out of battery safeties. I just looked at the manual for the new 2022 FN High Power. It still has the rocker bar. They have scrapped the magazine safety, but they've added a new function - a firing pin block on the rear of the rocker bar.

[@chipsterb4946]

Fantastic! Thank you very much for explaining the trigger reset mechanism. I had figured out just about everything else but missed that bit, wondering why the vertical “pointy thing” was sprung and moved forward & back. You also explained something that had puzzled me - without saying it explicitly. If you hold the trigger back after firing, you can feel the trigger move backward a bit as soon as the slide starts moving backward. That’s because the “pointy thing” slides off that transfer bar and can move up a little.

[@cheesenoodles8316]

The secret life of the Browning HP part two. I like this video allot. It is a great pistol that has held up well as designs moved forward. A flaw or two, yes. My brother and range partner will not shoot any of my "old stuff" except the BHP. It was the first wonder nine.

[@rriflemann308]

The top cartridge in the magazine puts magazine spring pressure on the bottom of the slide, removing the slid to frame movement (up and down) and largely eliminating the (slide to frame) tolerance movement you observed.

[@therogers4432]

I was wondering about this as Bloke was explaining and demonstrating the horrors that he thought he was experiencing... -I mean, it wasn't The Almighty John Moses Browning's first casual stab at designing a pistol, was it? So he probably saw that as a way to simplify (and therefore make cheaper...) one aspect of the production of his design.

[@BlokeontheRange]

Until the last round in the magazine ;)

[@erg0centric]

Paul Harrell tells us not to fire the last round but to reload while that round sits in the chamber.

[@wacky6136]

@@erg0centric In a very tense life and death situation, can you still count the number of ammo you have discharged?

[@cedhome7945]

Friday morning hear in blighty and bloke doing a tech rant with oily fingers.thats the best way to start a day over breakfast !

[@minuteman4199]

Canadian army Inglis Hi Powers have serial numbers on the slide, the frame and the barrel. They have to work as a set. I used to be in RCEME, and we replaced a lot of pistol barrels. After they had been hand fit to lock up properly they were serialized to the gun.

[@HypocriticYT]

Barrels would crack lower right, be functional but cfto’s said replace them. The newer two piece FN barrels didn’t seem to crack. Good pistol, have a 5T series one.

[@JohnTBlock]

Yes... found a '42 version cleaning out my cousins home after she passed, tangent rear sight but no stock slot, Waffinampt stamps and all. One of my Uncles brought it home from the war apparently....thought about removing the mag safety to see if the trigger improved, but it's a historic piece, virtual new/old stock, not going to be shot except on the range....

[@chipsterb4946]

I found a beat up Inglis Hi-Power made in 1944 which underwent “factory through repair” in England in 1963. The trigger was far from great and pretty inconsistent. Small variations in trigger pull depending on individual magazines. It is fairly easy to remove the spring and safety doo-dah (and to replace them when needed). Trigger is still stiff and I wouldn’t compare it to any 1911, but it’s serviceable now.

[@boba9253]

This was excellent! Yes, totally satisfied now, enjoying a candy cigarette and the afterglow. 😉

[@viperscot1]

🤣🤣🤣the same 🤣

[@myparceltape1169]

I take your point about prolonged mishandling in the field spoiling a good fit.

[@nirfz]

Very interesting video for the mechanically interested! It makes me think about two things: 1: the upmost round in a magazine would also push up on the slide, would this be enough to take up the tolerance and thus taking out the little movement upwards you showed by the trigger against the slide? And two: if i look at a strikerfired pistol like the Steyr M9, the striker (in the slide) and the sear (in the frame) have angled surfaces that face each other. (maybe 50° ?) As i understand it, that means the same thing as with your Hi Power: pulling the trigger causes pressure upwards on the slide. But trying it out, i can not detect any movement in that direction.

[@bebopwing1]

I have a mid-80s commercial that looks just like that. I tried taking out the magazine disconnect but found the trigger feel on reset to be unsatisfactory. It felt like I lost a lot of the spring pressure pushing the trigger forward on reset and just overall it felt spongy, so I ended up putting the magazine safety back in. Ultimately for me if I use a blued magazine I find the trigger pull alright, but like I think you've already said, the parkerized mags feel awful! I love the feel of the gun in the hand, I just wish the safety was larger, and it had better sights.

[@Frank-bc8gg]

Did they ever make armorer rocker bars to try and help when things slipped out or was that not seen as such a big problem for a military pistol? Great stuff as always!

[@aries_9130]

That is a super neat design feature. Very interesting, thanks for the video, Bloke!

[@dannybeale7487]

I have a Browning hi power nine my slide is stuck forward it will not come far enough back to engage the disassemble bar how would I go about fixing this to get the slide to go far enough back so I could take it apart

[@dbmail545]

I've never owned an HP. Not sure if I ever even fired one but I had a somewhat romanticized idea about it. Your HP series has cured me of it. I never realized just how wonky the magazine disconnect and the FCG were.

[@paulbarthol8372]

Elbonian Monday morning engineering: should have attached the transfer to the magazines. That way the magazine disconnect safety would be intregal to removing the magazine. Ooh, and also add some fiddly bit so you can load one round at a time, like a Lee Enfield. And a belt fed option.

[@fleurdelispens]

I remember the Hudsons talking about how a stirrup transfer bar gives a better trigger pull than a one-sided transfer bar. Do you know why they'd think that?

[@BlokeontheRange]

It's probably mostly in the mind, but in principle all the force is transferred symmetrically with a stirrup

[@Chlorate299]

Ah yes, tolerance stacks - my nemesis... I'd wager that in Browning's original specification the slide/frame fit was a bit on the tight side and required some hand fettling to run properly. Then the realistics of mass manufacture stepped in, cap in hand, and said "please sir, may we have some more tolerance? We're going to have a very high scrappage rate with that". Dead clever though - with some careful (expensive) machining, that system could probably be made into rather a crisp trigger.

[@eisenkrieg553]

I don't know how they do it but MK3 firearms have incredibly crisp and light hi power triggers. They have a channel by that name.

[@ianbrown1058]

It is interesting to see how engineering, metallurgy and close tolerances have improved over 80 years..Considering this is a military grade pistol ,short lifespan .The slide to frame fit is very similar to the 1911.. The HP frames had reduced engagement areas with the slide and the frames were not hardened ..The big problem with British HPs is the ammunition.. Military MK 1Z and the later Mk 2Z Basically beats the hell out of the HP.. For our American friends thats 9mm + P + loading.. If you get the chance to inspect the Springfield Armory newly produced HP you will see very close tolerances excellent fit and quality steel and heat treatment.. If you meet any one in the USA shooting a Sten or Sterling and having feeding problems ,tell them they were designed for +P+ Not your regular off the shelf 9mm ...

[@BlokeontheRange]

The Mk.1z is a direct copy of the Winchester commercial ammo the War Department bought in first. Mk. 2z is the stinkingly-hot +P+ load that was developed to run STEN's better. Sterlings, being commercial designs, will eat basically anything.

[@john2244]

Rocker bar on my latest 1993 version has a spring under the front end of the rocker bar pushing it down so you are essentially pushing against this spring to activate the rocker. Makes for a rather long feel to the trigger pull before the break. Am wondering whether removing this spring would improve that.

[@spets4265]

Everytime I look at a Hi-Powers mechanics I often wonder who did more of the design work on it; Browning or Saive?

[@wierdalien1]

Yes

[@rriflemann308]

Both.

[@custommaid3832]

What you say is all very good in theory, but in practice I think you'll find two things. First, 1971 when I first started out working with Hi-Powers, I've never ever seen one that is excessively loose. FN marked, Browning marked, Inglis Marked, German WWII marked, Far East marked... I've just never seen one with really excessive vertical play. Secondly, when there is but a single round or greater in the magazine, force is expressed upward upon the slide and all play is pushed to its maximum travel, so except for firing the last shot from a magazine (or with no magazine) its a moot issue. This is not unlike saying with excessive vertical slide play and a worn disconnector, the 1911 may double or machine gun. Everything wears eventually. Its how you deal with it that matters.

[@eisenkrieg553]

I wouldn't mind some nerdery on pistol ejectors. I always thought that the designs on 3rd gen smith autoloaders and even the Ruger P89 series were interesting for their novel designs.

[@AlexN2022]

do you have any pointers on tuning a BHP trigger? I'm trying to figure out what tuning/adjustment freedom exists in a BHP trigger scheme. I'm quite familiar with 1911, but with BHP I'm a bit confused. I have a Turkish clone and the trigger is not only not great, but also interestingly unreliable. Sometimes the trigger goes dead, but if I press the slide down onto the frame, it works again.

[@BlokeontheRange]

Sorry, no, but it sounds like that rocker bar in the slide isn't doing its thing properly there

[@faze_koki]

Hello, thx for the video, I have a problem that my trigger stays behind,and it doesn't shoot the hammer. What I can do

[@BlokeontheRange]

Take it to a gunsmith :)

[@NomadShadow1]

I've often thought that this kind of system would work really well with a striker system, the whole sear could be moved up into the slide freeing up a whole bunch of space to make the grips smaller or put in a two position feed magazine or something like that.

[@eisenkrieg553]

Yeah, but then it wouldn't be Glock tier and everybody does what Glock does.

[@rriflemann308]

John Browning original design for the High Power was striker fired, it’s rumored that Suave was behind the use of a hammer fire system but this is only conjecture.

[@BlokeontheRange]

I seem to remember than an external hammer was part of the French design brief.

[@gregorystringer9050]

Step by step so even an idiot like me could follow. Thank you so much and allow me to ask if you know how to remove the magazine disconnect from a Girsan MC P35 which is a clone of the Browning HP? I watched a video on how to do it to a browning HP but it didn't work for the Girsan so I figured I must be missing something. Thanks for reading this and good day.

[@AlexandruNicolin]

What's the small hole in back of the slide, right above the grip?

[@ianbrown1058]

HI Alexandru, That hole is the access for a pin punch to tap out the, trigger transfer bar, pivot pin..

[@WgCdrLuddite]

Is the pointy thing a tool for removing stones from horse's hooves ?

[@arturk2021]

Hi This good gun ?? Parts good metal ?? Regards Artur

[@john2244]

The very best

[@gammatheta491]

I have a mk3 clone, and as the trigger bar slides off the sear lever, the trigger moves a mm or so back. This shocks my finger and starts to hurt after a couple mags. Have you experienced that or heard of any solutions?

[@BlokeontheRange]

Nope, sorry

[@robertbrandywine]

Interesting. I was at the range today with my Browning, like his, a 1974. I noticed that recoil was hurting my trigger finger.

[@18robsmith]

Back in the day I had two..... The first was so loose as to be a real pain. The second was really snug and smooth. (Both had "failed" mag safety, don't ask how.....

[@simonjones6128]

Good job Mike

[@detritus23]

So, the trigger bar movement is the disconnect, but what happens if the pivot seizes in the rearward “fire” position? Does the hammer merely return to the uncocked position as the slide returns to battery or do you get a runaway fire as the sear falls (or does the trigger bar merely shear off)?

[@ianbrown1058]

80 years of use has proved this not to be the case.As the slide moves rearwards the frame will kick the sear end of the sear leaver up and clear of the sear so no rock and roll can take place. Revisions to the sear leaver have a return spring fitted to make for a smoother action..Hope that helps..

[@john2244]

@@ianbrown1058 question: is the return spring you mention located above the front end of the rocker bar? My latest has that. Seems to lengthen the trigger pull but also smoothes it out. Personally I prefer the shorter and crisper feel of my older model which does not have the spring and was wondering what the effect of removing it would be.

[@ianbrown1058]

@@john2244 Hi John, Yes the return spring is hidden under the rocker bar ,tapping out the pivot pin will reveal the hidden coil spring..This spring will have no effect on the length of trigger pull . Please remember we are talking about pistols that have good and bad triggers because back in the day parts tolerances varied considerably and most of these pistols were destined for the military and they preferred heavy triggers. If you are talking about the actual disengagement of the sear and hammer being heavy or long that is purely the relationship between those two parts.As a gunsmith I have adjusted the trigger pull on many HPs to give a very fine let off indeed for target shooting. Using oil stones on the hammer and sear engagement ..This is not for the kitchen table gunsmith as you do need to know your stuff .. Hope that is of interest..

[@pkt1213]

Now I am going to have to go get the Inglis out of the safe and look. It isn't the best shooter at this point in it's 80 years but I love it. To me, the BHP just feels good in the hand.

[@therogers4432]

Do you know much/anything about who previously owned your BHP over its' 80 year history, and how long have you owned it?

[@pkt1213]

@@therogers4432 it was made by Inglis in Canada. I looked up the SN and it was 1942 I think. What life it lived between then and like 10 years ago when I picked it up at a pawn shop, I have no idea. I wish it could tell me its story.

[@SuperRonnyo]

Mine doesn´t make noises like tink psjjt toenk.

[@jason200912]

anybody else think that's excessive greasing or thick oil?

[@M.M.83-U]

I am very satisfied, thank you.

[@itsnodawayitustabe5654]

This would explain why my feg seems to shoot low

[@wacky6136]

The simplicity of the Hi-Power is one of the reason that makes it one of the best pistol ever made.

[@gameragodzilla]

I was always curious why 1911s had such nice triggers while High Powers had pretty atrocious ones despite the High Power being more or less an evolution of the 1911 design.

[@ianbrown1058]

It could have something to do with the requirements of the Danish military as they specified a magazine disconnect ..I personally find it interesting how firearms development has these additions that we, 80 years later consider redundant. They obviously took this problem of removing a magazine from a pistol and being able to still fire a round as a problem regardless of present day thinking.. Additional cost and work, even in the UK and many other countries ,they all kept it heavy trigger and all.. If you have ever had to carry a HP as a police officer or security ,having that pistol removed from your grip in a fight and being able to dump the mag making the pistol inoperative I bet you would not remove the mag disconnect..So you have the real world and competition world..

[@ianbrown1058]

Hi Zippy, I have to agree with you there .I find it interesting looking back at firearms designs to see what were the trends of the day ,mag disconnects loaded chamber indicators, mag systems designed not to drop them freely so you do not loose probably the only mag you have. Safeties that are small and hard to use.triggers so heavy because the officers are frightened you might fire the pistol..millitary 1911s and HPs always had very heavy pulls.because training to keep there finger off the trigger unless you intend to shoot are modern ideas ..In years to come I will be interested in shooters view of the nonexistent problem of firing pin blocks....@Zippy Dastrange

[@QuickStrikes84]

What. It wasn't really an evolution of the 1911 design since some of the patents in the 1911 couldn't be used when designing the hi-power.

[@gameragodzilla]

@@QuickStrikes84 It was, though. The Hi Power uses a tilting barrel short recoil action with a slide taken off the 1911. Hell, it became more 1911-like with revisions since Browning originally designed the Hi Power to be striker fired but the final form was hammer fired. Even the locking lug design is the same. Though patents are probably why the excellent 1911 trigger design wasn’t used.

[@kevinoliver3083]

​@@ianbrown1058The HP was designed to a French Army specification, including mag safety, not a Danish one.

[@temnysh]

This pistol is a classic. The best classic. Compared to music, this is Mozart.

[@JoachimElmesioo]

Is that pointy thing the worlds smallest and worst fishing rod?

[@pmgn8444]

Bloke, you say (more or less) "good manufacturing but bad ergonomics". Do you really mean 'ergonomics'? That, to me, is more the overall handling of a weapon. The rocker bar would make the trigger pull less crisp than other systems. Since I'm not a competitive shooter, I'm not exactly sure of the most accurate/correct phrase. As always, more than just vaguely interesting and a great nerdgasm! Now, where is my box of tissues...

[@BlokeontheRange]

Ergonomics, writ large, is any interaction between human and object, so includes things like trigger pull, configuration of the sights etc.

[@briansmithwins]

The tool looks like a AK punch but too big, unless Bloke has really tiny hands.

[@therogers4432]

Yup. This level of geekery makes me very happy 😁👍 I also use the term 'giblets' when referring to internal components of any sort, but some women seem to get all offended by that...?

[@445cat]

Dangit, my nerdgasm made me have an itch…for a high power.

[@18robsmith]

Nothing like inspecting the giblets of a Hi Power.

[@MisterOcclusion]

Really, it’s like Browning looked at a Luger, straightened out the L lever and turned the striker into a hammer. Both pistols have triggers that would make Rube Goldberg happy. And both tend to be lousy. I had a brand new Hi Power Standard (the upmarket one). It had an 11 pound trigger pull. Felt like 20 with that thin trigger.

[@onkelmicke9670]

Agreed. Both pistols are among the greatest designs ever but for their trigger mechanisms.

[@briansmithwins]

That trigger mechanism really feels like it was intended to avoid patents on more direct trigger designs.

[@BlokeontheRange]

By 1935, any patent on e.g. the 1911 trigger mech will have been expired.

[@kevinoliver3083]

​@@BlokeontheRangeThe HP design was finalised in 1929. After waiting six years, for military budgets to recover from the Great Depression, FN weren't going to miss sales redesigning the trigger mechanism.

[@onkelmicke9670]

Yes the trigger mechanism is the main flaw of the design. The other is the lack of a beavertail on the frame.

[@john2244]

The beavertail has never been a problem to me as I have relatively small hands and have not as yet ever had hammer bite.

[@womble321]

If that was me I would raise the metal with a center punch at the front :)

[@PaperHunter]

This made me make sad noises remembering the Hi-Power I had to surrender to the police.

[@JohnHughesChampigny]

Clear demo that the Hi Power, like most automatic pistols, is a bullpup.

[@JordanFlayer]

Browning bad man

[@robertoservadei4766]

Why don't you just remove the trigger pin that holds the bloody thingamagig that holds the magazine disconnector and chuck it in the rubbish bin? I've been doing that to all my Brownings for 40 years! Problem solved.

[@alun7006]

See previous video.

[@NemetskyCzar]

You enjoyed it, but did She?? 😉

[@HypocriticYT]

With all the perceived wrongs of the HP, I can shoot them much better than any Beretta 92’s and other pistols

[@BlokeontheRange]

Me too. I shoot that one there quite well.

[@SuperMeatMachine]

I wonder how much of the design is JMBs and how much is Dude Savvy's.