Follow Up: Do You Need 'Audiophile Ethernet Switch'? LHY Audio SW-10

Follow Up:
www.vinshineau...
Premier introduction of LHY Audio SW-10. LHY Audio is a subsidiary brand of Jay's Audio.
SW-10 is a High quality 8-ports RJ45 + 2 SFP Ports Network Switch housed in CNC Milled Aluminium Chassis, powered by Ultra-Low-Noise Linear Power Supply, Clock by High Precision OCXO (Oven Controlled Crystal Oscillator).
LHY Audio: www.beatechnik...
Product Info: www.beatechnik...
Shop Now: www.beatechnik...

[@Benvos]

I don’t know what it is, but I can’t get enough of your videos.

[@chrisshand1532]

TCP/IP is just data your switch does not know or care what traffic is passing across it. If you can watch KZbin your switch is working fine, as with most things digital there is no such thing as subtle it either works 100% or it's broken

[@Ivy13276]

Mike from Headquarter Audio suggested I purchase two of these switches and cascade them with a specific fiber optic cable in between. Do you need this switch? Hell yes!! It was a very very big improvement to my digital rig. As a bonus I also hooked up my Apple tv/pioneer av receiver to the first sw10 and holy cow!! picture, sound colors all improved

[@michaelwright1602]

What did he recommend in regards to the fiber optics? I'm going the same route.

[@Egofileo1]

Really great product, and for what does it cost compared with the several features it got, it's really a bargain.

[@michaelmityok1001]

Great video and superb product quality 👌the price is a bargain for all the features.

[@Pete.across.the.street]

I have 2 cisco switches fiber connected, made a huge improvement in my streaming. I want to upgrade to the SW10, looks like a great product.

[@sunny_nismo7792]

This new switch is Definitely on my wish list . Really enjoying the ock-2 .

[@laiguilleetlefeu3240]

I had a good switch (netgear S8000). The gap was small. I trade for a Ether regen. This device is huge and reclockable !

[@peteradams5989]

I’ve got a LHY SW-10 on order. Keenly awaiting its arrival and testing in my systems. My ears will decide if there is a sonic difference, or not!

[@michaelwright1602]

Any thought on it yet? I'm going to order the 8 port switch and do my own fiber optic switches between it and my router.

[@VinshineAudio]

Thank you Peter!

[@Wharariki]

How are you finding it so far Peter?

[@peteradams5989]

@@Wharariki Give me another few weeks. I delayed their shipment as I had to travel. It's due in next week. I can't wait to test it in my rig. I was stunned at the difference replacing a few Ethernet cables made - that's what prompted me to replace the switch too. We shall see.

[@Wharariki]

Cool. You're one of a very small number of early adopters so keen to hear your thoughts. Both as a switch/FMC and as a master clock

[@oscarfloresrua]

muy buen video... tanto conocimiento compartido de estas lineas de productos que ni siquiera tenia conocimiento de que existian... gracias y saludos desde Bolivia!

[@d.w.96318]

I had to report that with the SW8, there is very audible improvement in my system, now my streaming chain is sensitive enough to hear the distinct difference of reversing the direction of network cables. It's very clear which direction a given network cable sounds best now... Once a system gets to a certain level, I guess every tiny bit matters.

[@thomaswalder4808]

" It's very clear which direction a given network cable sounds best now... " It's very clear that you not have any idea how ethernet and TCP/IP are working....

[@aussie8114]

I don’t really understand these things, but it looks nice 👍🏼

[@cabronesse386]

Nice wi-fi 6 router Alvin! Don't forget to enable the MU-MIMO and OFDMA feature in the Wireless/Professional setting of ASUS WRT app. 👌

[@whitehatbob4153]

Your focus on the quality of the stream topology is right on! This is the new frontier in hi-res audio. Many audiophiles (falsely) believe all digital streams with the same specs are all created equal. But I learned that two exactly the same lossless hi-res audio files sound quite different when played directly from your internal hard drive on your computer and when played with the same system except from a hard drive through the network. This is because in the networking world, a signal just has to reach a threshold to trigger a switch, but ears can discern many more characteristics of the signal than just a threshold. Bravo!

[@PhillioDoede]

You are correct in that all digital streams not the same but that is not the way a switch or any piece of network gear works. Its a transfer of binary data from one device to another not a digital stream akin to a PC or CD transport to a DAC, completely different concepts at work.

[@whitehatbob4153]

@@PhillioDoede Yes, of course, and useful to point out. IP packets, Serial Signals, PCI, SCSI, etc., all have their differences. I just tend to cringe when audiophiles talk of the absolute reliability and performance certainty of lossless binary digital files. Electronic signals start out as analog, and the implementation to varying manufacturing and design standards and competence of switches, clocks, CRC checks, protocols, transistors, capacitors, and filters, each with signal strength, thresholds, triggers, and tolerances, are used to create the fiction of an absolutely perfect, absolutely consistent lossless binary digital file. Granted, the variances are small, and the assertion of being binary and lossless is reasonable with given parameters, but the human ear can hear the variances, which is why there is a lot more to getting fantastic sound reproduction than just starting with a "lossless" file and transmitting it through a "lossless" protocol. IOW "lossless binary digital" does NOT always mean in every circumstance "without perceivable variances."

[@elkeospert9188]

@@whitehatbob4153 "Electronic signals start out as analog, and the implementation to varying manufacturing and design standards and competence of switches, clocks, CRC checks, protocols, transistors, capacitors, and filters, each with signal strength, thresholds, triggers, and tolerances, are used to create the fiction of an absolutely perfect, absolutely consistent lossless binary digital file." The message you typed above went through billions of transistors and thousands of capacitors and resistors before it appeared on my computer display and NO: It is not science fiction but reality that I can read your message letter by letter exactly the way you typed in your computer or smartphone without even a single wrong letter - absolutely perfect and absolutly lossless and no "variances" at all.... Welcome in the digital world.....

[@whitehatbob4153]

@@elkeospert9188 Yea, all true as far as it goes since using signals in a one-to-one match of ASCII character sets to reproduce words is a lot simpler than hearing. This discussion reminds me of the early days of computer screens. First, displays were monochromatic and 320 x 200 dpi. The brain had to do a lot of interpreting (called persistence of vision) to see much beyond characters and lines, and you got a headache after a few hours of use. The digital experts at the time said once you reached 1024 x 786 dpi and 256 colors, you reached a match with the human eye's capabilities. Yet people still got headaches due to the brain still having to fill in the information, and the video was far from lifelike (i.e., the digital presentation did not replicate the analog presentation). Today with 8K resolution, it's still not lifelike, and the brain is still interpreting. They now realize it's not only the number of colors and dpi but brightness (nits), refresh rate, blackness around pixels, etc., that are also critical. Yet the brain is still interpreting, and the screen that, although tremendously improved, video is still not lifelike. IOW it still not completely reproducing the analog world because of the nuances of other factors beyond dpi and color depth, as the brain is "seeing" things you're not conscious of. It's the same with hearing. Because a digital signal can transfer sufficient data points (bits) to reproduce a frequency curve, doesn't mean it's capturing all the nuances of other sound characteristics and the brain's interpretation of them. For example, variances in timing, rates, angles, slopes, etc. of curves may not be consciously hearable enough to push a button in a test, but they may well be sufficient to affect the interpretation the brain does automatically without your direct awareness. It's just not the same thing to say a "bit perfect" reproduction of a "bit model" of an analog signal is the same thing as a perfect recreation of all characteristics of an analog signal. The bits might be a perfect match at both ends, but the sound isn't, at least not yet, not even close. There is a very interesting way to demonstrate this. Yamaha makes a piano called the "Disklavier," which uses digital MIDI signals to actually move the keys to actually physically play the piano acoustically just like a human, the only difference being the Disklavier will always play the song exactly the same way. You can record the song from the Disklavier with your very best digital recording equipment and play it back with your very best digital player equipment, then AB test the MIDI acoustic version with the digitally recorded version, and the difference is absolutely audible even though the digital version is bit perfect. Using this approach, you control all the variables except the ability of the digital signal to in every way perfectly recreate the analog symbol. The main issue is really understanding what "bit perfect" really means.

[@elkeospert9188]

@@whitehatbob4153"IOW it still not completely reproducing the analog world because of the nuances of other factors beyond dpi and color depth, as the brain is "seeing" things you're not conscious of. " You speak about "other factors" and "things the brain is seeing" What exactly are this "other factors" and "things" ? "It's the same with hearing. Because a digital signal can transfer sufficient data points (bits) to reproduce a frequency curve," What do you mean with "frequency curve". Normally digital music is based on a digital description of the wave form generated by sampling the signal periodically. "doesn't mean it's capturing all the nuances of other sound characteristics" What exactly mean with "nuances of other sound characteristics" which are not part of the wave form? "For example, variances in timing, rates, angles, slopes, etc. of curves may not be consciously hearable enough to push a button in a test, but they may well be sufficient to affect the interpretation the brain does automatically without your direct awareness." So you claim that even if you can identify any difference in a double blind test between an analog and a digital stored signal it anyway makes a difference? "It's just not the same thing to say a "bit perfect" reproduction of a "bit model" of an analog signal is the same thing as a perfect recreation of all characteristics of an analog signal. " There is no "perfect recreation" of an analog signal.... Each analog component (capacitors, transistors, electrical resistance) is not 100% linear and their electrical properties are changing depending from temperature and even aging. That is the reason that analog copies are getting worser with each copy generation regardless how good the equipment is. Take a vinyl lp as an example - many "audiophiles" are claiming that it has an higher resolution as an CD. A lp stores the wave form in the course of a groove - so the amplitude of the sound wave is encoded "mechanically" and later read by an needle to determine the amplitude of the wave at this point of time. But the distance between to winds of the groove is only about 70 µm - so this is the maximum available space to "encode" the amplitude of the wave. If you want to get the samle accuracy in storing the amplitude as a CD (which uses 16 bits to do that) you have to encode 2^16=65536 different values in that 70 µm. 70 µm / 655536 is about 1 nm - which is smaller than the finest structure possible in modern computer chips. It is fully impossible to measure the course of a groove mechanically with a needle with an accuracy of 1 nm - it is even impossible to press a groove with that precision into vinyl. So even an LP is analog it is impossible to store the amplitude of an wave with the same accuracy as an digital audio CD "The bits might be a perfect match at both ends, but the sound isn't, at least not yet, not even close." When the "digital" sound is not even close to the analog yet why people can not hear easily the difference in double blind tests? "There is a very interesting way to demonstrate this. Yamaha makes a piano called the "Disklavier," which uses digital MIDI signals to actually move the keys to actually physically play the piano acoustically just like a human, the only difference being the Disklavier will always play the song exactly the same way. You can record the song from the Disklavier with your very best digital recording equipment and play it back with your very best digital player equipment, then AB test the MIDI acoustic version with the digitally recorded version, and the difference is absolutely audible even though the digital version is bit perfect. " You are comparing apples to pears - or more precise the output of an real piano with the output of an speaker. The correct comparison would be to compare the playback of an analog recording of such an piano with the playback of a digital recording of the same piano.... "Using this approach, you control all the variables except the ability of the digital signal to in every way perfectly recreate the analog symbol." As I wrote before - there is also no way using analog technic to reproduce music "perfectly" but using digital technic makes it possible to get a more accurate reproduction with much less effort and costs.... "The main issue is really understanding what "bit perfect" really means." And the typical definition of "bit perfect" in audio reproduction is that the bits which are send to the digital analog recorder are exactly the same as the bits in the original digital recording. This is not the case for lossy encoding methods like mp3 - but it is the case for lossles encoding methods like WAV or FLAC.

[@MisterChibs]

Really interesting prospect Alvin! Are you enjoying your U2 Mini?

[@gilpatmore4312]

thanks for doing this!!!

[@mrglindsay3]

I avoid using a switch at all by using a fiber media converter with LNPS. The converter rejects both RFI and EMI and provides a very clean signal.

[@DavidD-eo8ts]

I really enjoy your matter of fact presentation style and also your unique product knowledge. Keep up the good work. Can you give me your opinion on the audible improvement I will get using this switch over simply connecting my streamer (BlueSound Vault II) via cable to my home Telco supplied router.

[@AT-wl9yq]

Have a look at this video. It should answer your questions. kzbin.info/www/bejne/eF62pYemobaNr9U

[@AT-wl9yq]

Have a look at this video. It should answer your questions. kzbin.info/www/bejne/eF62pYemobaNr9U

[@AT-wl9yq]

Have a look at this video. It should answer your questions. kzbin.info/www/bejne/eF62pYemobaNr9U

[@iepdeklein1701]

What is the reason you combine Master clock and audio switch in that switching (noise) device?

[@PhillioDoede]

This what I don't understand about these products. I would really like a better explanation for this.

[@marcgoldstein2957]

Yo Alvin, have you been working out? Great to see you in a less crammed space. Super happy with the LHY SW-8. There's a question I see coming back often in forums: would connecting multiple ethernet cables to the switch create crosstalk? I have use ONE port on mine. Everything else goes to a basic Netgear switch. What are your thoughts on that?

[@ovidiumotioc985]

Hello Alvin, I listened to a SW-5, the improvements are heard there but the sound becomes brighter. How would you describe the sound signature of a SW-10? I'm very tempted to order one, it seems like what I'm looking for, but I prefer a warmer sound, my system is already quite bright. Thanks for the good work!

[@suicideyt]

A switch is a digital device. It doesn‘t improve sound quality whatsoever because it can’t

[@chad3560]

Why would you pay for a clock generator in a switch? All a switch does is copy data from one point to a ram buffer and the packets don’t even arrive in order. It has zero to do with sound. I don’t mean the difference is imperceptible I literally mean the device has zero to do with the creation of any sound beyond copying the data to the playback device.I looked it up and the lhy is a rebadged Logitech lgs108 which is not a bad 30 dollar router on Amazon but if you wanted to spend a premium why not spend the money on a more modern and faster multi gig switch.

[@seowlay9897]

hi, why not add a lhy external clock?

[@hazchem1]

I think I'm correct in saying, there is surely a difference in what setup choice you'll make depending on whether you're using a Streamer device or if you've got your music stored on a NAS Drive? In the case of using a NAS Drive, where you already have your music stored there, surely it's a simple case of just using one Switch and connecting the NAS Drive to the Amp with a quality Ethernet cable?

[@marcusbrsp]

Although a bit skeptical about the difference a switch can do, I will probably buy the 8 pot at some point.

[@suicideyt]

money waste

[@marcusbrsp]

@@suicideyt maybe, but it can't be worse than connecting directly to a Netgear router.

[@thomaswalder4808]

@@marcusbrsp "maybe, but it can't be worse than connecting directly to a Netgear router." It can't be better - but you have an additional component which might fail and needs additional power.

[@joshua43214]

I run optical to my OpticalRendu. It is a really great system. Lets me run the signal right along power cords and other junk along a 10m long cable with no issues. I have run into tons of problems with switches not being compatible with the SFP modules required by the Rendu. Have you tested this unit with Sonore products? They only accept SFP, not SFP+

[@scootergants]

Bravo.

[@harvestgroup644]

Hi Vincent, great vedio, I’m intending to get one of LHY switches. I use fibre internet, I would like to find out what would the best option me, my streamer is a zen stream which I’m happy with at the moment apart from the fact that it keeps disconnecting due to signal drop. I suppose that if the buy the SW10 I can connect fibre cable from the wall to the SFP port and then connect the normal cable to the streamer from of the 8 ports? Then I connect the wifi router to another 1 of the 8 ports. Will this be a best option for me? Will this also improve the signal strength to my streamer? I will really appreciate your advice. Thank you

[@VinshineAudio]

Hi sir, please drop us an email at [e-mail]. We are happy to help!

[@calaf_725]

Interesting product. Thank you for the detailed explanation. Here is my question for you Alvin. I have a Blusound Node N130 that unfortunately has as you know only one USB input/output. Because of this i connect my external USB drive to my Asus router (has USB input) and then connect Asus to Node N130 with ethernet cable. This is how i play my music. No internet streaming. Will i benefit from a device like this?

[@AudiS4orce1]

Well, not only a switch doesn’t make a difference, the $30 NETGEAR cheap switch actually had less noise than yours in the testing done in Netherlands. So, folks, save your money, buy a NETGEAR.

[@VinshineAudio]

Thank you for the suggestion!

[@warmtoiletseat5596]

Well yes! Using Audiophile Ethernet switches and cables enhanced the quality of the desktop 4K .PNG file wallpapers that I've downloaded as well as the images of the Blu-ray rips that I stream over the network 🙂

[@b00m3rh4nd_sol]

Maybe I am wrong, but seems like it could have some value for a network streamer, but if you are using a PC with software like Audirvana that provides buffering, does it still make sense? I really like the master clock feature BTW.

[@Wharariki]

What's the output from your PC, usb or ethernet to an external streamer or DAC? I got a Mac Mini running Roon/Hqplayer and using ethernet directly from the Mini via an SW-8 switch into my R26 DAC's internal streamer sounds so much etter than direct, it sounds like a different DAC. Beats a USB connection to U18 DDC then I2S cable to R26 with good but not top end USB & I2S cables. With LHY OCK-1 clocking both R26 & U18 I should add.

[@b00m3rh4nd_sol]

@@Wharariki USB from Matrix Element H USB adapter (R26 provides its own USB power :) I can say the Matrix Element H sounds noticeably better then USB output from a Macbook Air. The LHY OCK takes the R26 to a whole new level

[@joshua43214]

@@b00m3rh4nd_sol That it because it is very difficult to get good USB from a computer, and almost impossible from a laptop. To make matters worse, some (mostly Macs) actually perform worse when running on battery. Those Matrix converters are pretty good

[@mediascapes2011]

Q: I got several music systems at my house. With home WIFI, where do I locate the switch, at the entry point of the house or one at each music system? Why ports on the switch box, what for?

[@VinshineAudio]

Hi sir, please reach out to us at [e-mail]. Our colleague will be able to assist you.

[@elkeospert9188]

" Why ports on the switch box, what for?" Because a switch without ports is not a switch ............... By definition a a network switch is a >>>multiport

[@mnoble247]

How come these switches can't be videophile? The answer is no you don't need an audiophile switch as they are packet pushers.

[@tehuhti2]

Alvin -- what new preamp and monoblocks do you have now?

[@michaelwright1602]

Well, that is the new Kinki Studio integrated on the shelf, $25,000 ea if my memory is correct. The matching mono-block amps are $50,000 a pair. That new integrated is pretty cool, it has a suspension system, it is two pieces, the top portion actually floats. Pretty cool.

[@steve-94951]

LHY website says that this switch has 50 ohm bnc clock in/out... can it be ordered with 75 ohm bnc instead?

[@VinshineAudio]

Hi Steve, certainly. Please contact us at [e-mail]

[@tarquineous]

Do you sell or recommend an SFP adaptor ?

[@VinshineAudio]

Yes we do! You may reach out to our sister company Beatechnik team at [e-mail]. Our specialist will assist you.

[@microkid68]

You clearly have no idea how digital transmission works. Data in is data out, packets are just transferred from source to destination. The switch does not know or care what data it is passing and thus has no influence at all. Even if the network cable is bad, build in techniques will take care of checksums, retransmission etc. Sound is never changed by the digital transmission or components in the chain. If you think it does, it is in your head. If the sound would change at all, that would mean the digital data would have changed, which is not the function of a network switch.

[@markwilliford7471]

If the digital data is transmitted via analog electrical impulses, (which is the case of non-optical lan) then the data is subject to corruption.

[@microkid68]

@@markwilliford7471 No it is not. The TCP/IP protocol has checksums embedded. If data is corrupted, it will be sent again. In the end, the data is transmitted 100% identical from source to destination,

[@markwilliford7471]

@@microkid68 and if not outright data warping/corruption, then electrical noise may be introduced downstream, though I have seen graphic representations that infer data corruption IS possible. Do you also subscribe to the idea that every DAC based on the same DAC chip sounds equal? And if not, why do those same principles not apply in some way to data passing through a switch? Are server/streamers that incorporate LAN isolation doing so for no reason? I am not an EE and this topic is very interesting to me. I can say, with no doubt and having passed double-blind tests, that my Aurender N200 is a superior server/streamer to my PC. The same digital files being served/streamed by two different devices to the same DAC. Why is does one sound clearly superior (less sibilance, better bass resolution, better imaging)?

[@microkid68]

@@markwilliford7471 Let me put it this way. If you place this audiophile ethernetswitch between your computer, do the Google results suddenly become much better? Or if you connect it to your TV, does the image of a streamed video magically become much more detailed? In both cases: no. Because digital data cannot be changed. And even if data corruption occurs, the switch will only send out what it received. It will not magically "repair" the corrupt data.

[@BotraxDiaz]

Reclocking is not a thing. Network TCP/IP is not Toslink

[@hifirulezzz]

Between streaming server and your streamer 10,000 switches. Single switch will change nothing. Stop wasting your time and money.

[@thomaswalder4808]

10000 is a "little bit" high - realistic are less than 100.

[@santiagofederici5819]

First link in digital audio chain is the streamer with his buffer, not the storage disk.... So yeah nice snaike oil video

[@VinshineAudio]

I appreciate and respect your frank opinion!

[@mnoble247]

@@VinshineAudio Dude the entire premise of packet and frame switched networks is the clock domain boundary buffer. It' allows different busses to run at different speeds that they each need to run at and just use pre-fetch and back off to avoid buffer under/overrun. I've a used Juniper EX3300 (you know a $13B networking company) that I picked up for $49 on ebay. Running a Gen7 I5 and solar flare PCI-e NIC with 1330/1270 SFP+ Single Mode BX (single strand 10G). Hitting 1000MB/s. I can literally transfer a full redbook CD in ~0.8 seconds. So I've isolated the connection and I can get an entire album in fractions of a second. What good is the 'audiophile' switch doing to the data that is statically stored in DRAM? Especially 50 minutes worth?