Thomas Massie Mercilessly Grills ATF Director About New Stabilizing Brace Rule

At today's House Judiciary Committee hearing, Rep. Thomas Massie (R-KY) questioned ATF Director Steven Dettelbach.
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[@danastewart3091]

Abolish the ATF

[@401RISaint]

💯

[@Wildthing118]

💯💯💯

[@jwreagan]

and do away with the NFA and GCA!

[@Tibbs_Farm]

​@@jwreagan and the HUGHES AMENDMENT from the FOPA

[@benjurqunov]

Without ATF... The FBI would take over the ATF job. FBI is used for more political hanky panky than any other agency. Think about that one !

[@stevenfromer3816]

If ATF can’t explain the unconstitutional rule to congress,then why would he expect the average citizen to able comply? Absolutely insane!

[@madman026]

its a mad world brother welcome to 2023

[@PolPotsPieHole]

thats the way they want it

[@hawkeyeted]

They don't care about constitutionality. Dettlebach is doing what "Moms Demand Action" want. That's why he's there.

[@Mike-In-O-Town]

Why would the average citizen have any interest or motivation to comply with this anyway. This is illegal BS by the ATF (nothing unusual for them), and no one should give it a moment's thought.

[@1974dormouse]

IGnOrAnCe oF tHe LaW iS nOt aN eXcUsE! 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

[@filioque4509]

Apparently, if the ATF Director cannot testify without appealing to his "experts," than Congress needs to haul each and every "expert" the ATF has in and grill them. This is mere obfuscation.

[@gaiustacitus4242]

Agency heads never permit underlings who have relevant knowledge of the facts to testify before Congress. Why? Because the truth would be disclosed and the agency's abuses of power would be undermined.

[@filioque4509]

@@gaiustacitus4242 You're absolutely right. That's why it's up to Congress to make that decision. Surely Congress knows they're going to get obfuscation and lies by bringing agency heads in. For that reason, I'm skeptical of Congress's intentions as well. If they know they're not going to get answers, then surely these hearings are nothing but political theater.

[@fermentedfruit]

there’s a reason they choose him to be the spokesman’s lol

[@RJD0314]

Maybe he shouldn't be Director...? Did Congress grab him from the hallway and haul him in there without him having a chance to prepare?😅 I wonder how long he knew about this hearing before it occurred?

[@NeverForget1776]

Yes but the experts will play the same game as the agency heads do because the agencies lawyers will advise them to and their boss will demand they do it because avoiding be truthful with congress is the goal

[@shaiglizzy1972]

Atf almost had a heart attack when he raised that brace 💀

[@NoNo_IStay]

The eyebrows 😂

[@olboy7683]

😂😂😂😂

[@fshalor738]

Anyone gonna talk about the fact that ATF testified to "No constructive possession" for the brace? For some reason they are focused on "constructive configurations". On items which are by engineering, modular; this is an untenable and unenforceable platform to build the house of cards. Or the house of raid crews.

[@brett19890]

Instant felony charge from ridiculous rules by the atf to restrict lawful gun ownership...these democrats will go to any lengths to get rid of lawful possession.

[@sherrywilletts2450]

Also think about this, the Demonrats would also go to any lengths to eliminate millions of Republican voters because felons can’t vote!

[@danieldelarosa2976]

time to deport the illegals....

[@lesforet4495]

Demonrats fify

[@cheechwizard7564]

Make the classification as clear as mud, this makes it easier for gungrabbers take a citizens firearm away and in turn makes the citizen have to jump thru expensive hoops to get it back, if at all. Well played Democrats, _there is now another special little room in Hell set aside especially for you._

[@1-CRoss]

And cry for the law breakers and robbers....while they spend taxpayer dollars on private security.....and I bet their guards carry all sorts of firearms....smh

[@PocketDrummer]

He's literally holding the brace they approved, and he still can't answer the question without talking around it.

[@DWeezy62]

@PocketDrummer Exactly!

[@tmi1234567]

I totally understand what you are saying. It is a complicated situation. Arm braces are never used as arm braces and people defacto shoulder the rifles. It you want an SBR just get a damn tax stamp it's $200 and I think the ATF is waiving the fee so people can legally keep their SBRs that were legal before. SBRs are not illegal. You just have to register them properly.

[@RyanFixesCars]

​@@tmi1234567 how's that boot taste? 🤔 What part of "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" do you not understand?

[@axelbanuelos6771]

@@tmi1234567 yet states that disallows NFA items screws over their citizens because they aren’t allowed to get tax stamps for their braces. If you do end up registering the pistol as an SBR, then it becomes more restrictive to cross state lines with these firearms and harder to sell/transfer them in the future because of the NFA designation. It’s just another attempt at restricting legally acquired firearms.

[@desert4seat]

@@tmi1234567 You are confused. Fun Fact: Unconstitutionality aside, did you know some citizens cannot get a "damn tax stamp?" Not that they should anyway, just saying.

[@erelat]

It amazes me how far people can go without being held in contempt.

[@Rick-wr7es]

these politicians and lawmakers are the ones who gave the ATF the go ahead to ban these things. you poor unintelligent American 🤣 just cause they're the ones barring the ATF from following the rules they set, doesn't make them the good guys

[@nathanmatroniano455]

I agree. Refusing to answer that many questions at a Congressional hearing is absurd.

[@stankoleatherworx]

that just shows the government doesn't fear the people. you don't answer, contempt. they don't answer, continuation of tyranny. good times

[@cdsmit27]

The atf is a rouge agency that's protected by the government. They can do whatever they want.

[@sevaul]

its not court, its congress. Its all for show they can simply not answer anything and then leave. That said, congress 'writes the checks' so to speak so most people comply "somewhat" in order to keep funded.

[@APolishedTurd]

ATF: The original brace was the only one we approved and people started making ones that weren’t that one. Congress: We’ll I have that one original one so this original is approved by what you just said? ATF: I don’t know.

[@jefferykolb]

We don’t follow RULES, WE follow laws legally passed by Congress!!

[@russargabright]

As the old saying goes "Rules were meant to be broken." Laws are not. Rules can't carry criminal penalties, period. Laws carry criminal penalties.

[@joelquinn2037]

Problem is these Firearms laws are UNCONSTITUTIONAL. I don't know who they're going to get to enforce them cuz I damn sure won't

[@brianclassen5221]

When I think of rules, I think of Pick up the toilet seat and put it back when done. Turn the light off when you leave the room. Failure is punishable by and ass chewing. Not 10 years in prison and 250K in fines.✌

[@Fausto_4841]

Speak for yourself.

[@Pressplay267]

We should just follow the constitution period

[@bbayerit]

The bureaucrats, who were NOT ELECTED, should not be allowed to decide what is legal or illegal. Having a pistol brace installed and used as intended should not be illegal, period!

[@Mike-In-O-Town]

Why are you getting so specific and aiding them in their efforts? Government as a whole has no business whatsoever digging into or attempting to regulate or restrict what guns I own. Period. 'All' this regulation, restriction, BS is illegal and unconstitutional.

[@agp9844]

Absolutely Mike

[@Bizzaro500]

That's the problem with our government. Most laws are written by special interest groups, not elected officials. In fact, most politicians don't even know what's in the law/s that they're passing. It's a disgrace!

[@stereodreamer23]

The very existence of the ATF is Unconstitutional. The entire Department should be disbanded, it's agents scattered to the four winds and blackballed from LE service for life, and the Executives of ATF should all be shipped off to Gitmo, awaiting trial for violating 18 U.S.C. 2381 and 18 U.S.C. 2384...

[@bbayerit]

@@Mike-In-O-Town How am I aiding government?

[@keithdurbin1724]

Proud of our rep Massie will get my vote next time too

[@glennscott8622]

He literally won’t say what the law/rule/whatever that can get you 10 years says. Appalling.

[@victormaxwell5947]

I've said this before ,, why the BS TALK,, the atf is breaking the law,,, DEFUND THE atf.........

[@sabaha4637]

I say yes 😄

[@drrichardpaul]

Not defund, but eliminate. They shouldn’t exist.

[@hawkeyeted]

...and take the FBI with them.

[@castanza128]

The supreme court needs to rule them unconstitutional.

[@thesandman6478]

Jail them

[@jonesseanalan]

Thomas Massie is quickly earning my respect and admiration.

[@TannerSwizel]

I'm lucky enough to get to vote for him in KY's 4th district. Never before have I agreed 99% of the time with an official that directly represents me

[@DaveRogersDesign]

then you just started paying attention. Which is great, but Massie has been doing this a decade. And is vocal about 9/11 lies as well. "28 pages/ Massie" is a great way to spend a bit of time on KZbin.

[@furtim1]

If he proposes legislation to overturn the laws ATF is enforcing, then I will respect him.

[@davidsekowski1710]

@@TannerSwizel I am in KY 4th District too!! Massie is the man

[@noreastsportsman6499]

There needs to be a some kind of penalty put in place for not answering yes or no questions as a yes or no. A judge can order a person to answer a question or be held in contempt… same needs to happen here. “Being held before congress” doesn’t hold weight anymore, it’s looked at as a processional event by these people.. going through the motions

[@yorkrojas1452]

Agreed

[@tuseroni6085]

i'm pretty sure you CAN be held in contempt of congress, that was one of the thing mcarthy used when going after communists. he would ask "are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party" if you said yes you were arrested, if you said "no" and he thought you were lying you would be arrested for perjury, if you refused to answer you would be held in contempt (apparently you can't plead the 5th i guess) least that's how i had heard it.

[@noreastsportsman6499]

@@tuseroni6085 but that was about SEVENTY years ago… that is not at all how congress operates anymore.

[@tuseroni6085]

@@noreastsportsman6499 no reason it can't be done still, its just a matter of will

[@southernblueblood5402]

He couldn't answer a yes/no question to save his life.🙄

[@joeytomato]

The worst part about this isn't the fact that he wouldn't directly answer questions... It's the fact that nothing will happen to him because he didn't.

[@tm1180]

Because like Pete Booty-gig he has no knowledge of the department he's running, Sgt. Schultz, he knows nothing..nothing!

[@brettgast]

This

[@rudyschwab7709]

I don't think it's a matter of "wouldn't". It appears it's more of a matter of "couldn't". This guy is completely incompetent. The ATF does very little in the way of enforcing alcohol or tobacco regulations. Their primary focus is firearms and explosives, and this guy already admitted in another grilling that he is not a firearms expert. WTF? He knows very little about what he is enforcing. He's just another puppet yes-man for the globalist elites who are hellbent on destroying a free republic.

[@OmegaBahn]

You are correct. It's an exercise of futility.

[@rocket_goblin7755]

unfortunately its usually like that with any kind of testifying, or politics, everyone should be held to the same standard and no one should be exempt from the law, but many from the governent feel that because they work for some alphabet agency or for congress they are above the law.

[@txhookey5608]

Declaring a felony means it is a law but did not go through the legislative process required. Who gave the ATF the authority to create their own laws. If that ATF Director worked anywhere else other than a federal agency and refused to answer or did not have an answer to basic questions, they would be instantly fired. The lack of competency, honesty, and integrity within our government is unacceptable and needs to be changed.

[@kenabi]

which is why hardin v atf ruled against the ATF under lenity. when criminal punishment is invoked, and the wording is vague, deference is to the people, and not the state. and since the ATF has no statutory authority to craft law (nor can congress grant them such), and merely have authority to enforce passed laws from congress, they're getting reamed in court over this. and well they should.

[@sideshow3136]

Donald Trump. ? Answered

[@kennethcurtis1856]

Ask Trump. He gave them the authority with the implementation of the bump stock ban. BTW, that ruling has just be denutted, which should be good news for the brace ban. Any gun owner who voted for Trump should not be bitiching about the ATF pistol brace ban, nor attacks on gun owners' due process. Wake up.

[@silverbackhayabusa]

@@sideshow3136 Not totally. While I agree under Trump where it had failed twice under Obama, Congress gives these agencies the legal right to create regulations with the laws that establish the agencies and set the boundaries for their creation of regulations. It's also the President who signs those laws. After their establishment and the setting of boundaries, both Congress and the President (Trump in this case) are responsible for reining in these agencies. Trump and Congress failed to rein the ATF in. When Trump had both the Senate and House in his first 2 years, little was achieved because the Republicans in Congress love to campaign on conservative issues but once they secure office, they generally refuse to follow through. Obamacare was never repealed, legislation to restrict the ATF was never passed, immigration was effectively ignored, etc.

[@jameswatson4110]

Exactly!

[@Weisbender1]

He said we wrote the rules!? I thought the ATF was supposed to enforce the rules

[@johncaldwell9842]

Please defund the ATF and fire this guy. Please!

[@werunguns]

The incompetency displayed by the ATF is embarrassing. They cannot retroactively make law abiding citizens felons!

[@sethrogers8473]

They can't make laws at all, but they are dang sure trying to.

[@RobertELee420]

they can if we let them

[@streamobject0014]

"incompetence" is not the word you should be using.

[@mjbranch2109]

he even couldn't mention the fact that its a loophole to classify a rifle as a pistol

[@Bobmcjoepants]

Except they can, and they are, and people are letting them

[@Memnarch]

The guy being questioned needs to look in the dictionary and find “infringement”. What a buffoon!

[@hawkeyeted]

Steven Dettelbach - Director of the ATF. Complete a$$clown.

[@dd_ranchtexas4501]

Memnarch 1170: Not a buffoon. A buffoon does not always have evil intent.....

[@s1lenceblade]

You're expecting A LOT out of a man who openly claimed in front of congress that he's "Not a firearms expert" despite being posted to the position of Director of the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and FIREARMS and continually refuses to define an "Assault Weapon" claiming that's the job of congress (Pure Irony in that statement alone)

[@misery13666]

Glad they're bringing up "constructive intent" when it comes to having the brace off of the pistol. It's going to become much more important further down the road on this. It goes to the "The ATF when the paintjob on my pistol upper, matches the paintjob on my rifle lower" meme, but in a more realistic sense. The ATF could in the same logic could call having those two firearms in the same safe "constructive intent".

[@BE030170]

Thank you, Massie.

[@sgt_s4und3r54]

If he can't say that the original braces are okay then he's lying out his ass and is proving everyone right about the ATF

[@VeritasEtAequitas]

They don't have the right to exist, let alone make laws or "rules"

[@mikecastleberry9671]

Bullbutter spoken here 😮

[@mikecastleberry9671]

2#

[@mikecastleberry9671]

Hi they try to tr to hi y it é to to treaty

[@tinacaldwell1500]

Idk wtf part of “shall not be infringed” do they not compute,get,understand,or comprehend? I guess it’s the shall not be infringed all of it part.

[@user-jw4bs3ui6u]

This guy knows nothing about the subject matter that can put you away for 10 years. If this doesn't scare you, you're nuts

[@magic1wizard]

He knows, hes just trying to do the classic dance around the said question and give the answer to the question he wanted to hear.

[@terpsurfer7221]

​@magic1wizard Call the ATF multiple and ask them them the same question everytime. You will get multiple different answers with most of them being wrong. He doesn't know shit about it.

[@DonziGT230]

It's much worse than that; he knows enough to know that it's BS and also knows that nothing will happen to him for doing it. If he didn't have immunity he would not be changing laws and rules willy nilly like this.

[@dixiedawgs8946]

@@terpsurfer7221 O like the SBA and other gov. entities, you can call and speak w/ 10 diff, people and get 10 diff. answers.

[@Devin82m]

As usual, Congressman Massie is on fire, spot on.

[@rambojohn272727]

Congress should make a law stating that repeated non answers in a Senate committee hearing can be considered perjury so that bureaucrats have to give straight forward answers instead of using verbal gymnastics to avoid giving an answer.

[@jonmccauley6490]

Always be careful about punishing speech as it could backfire on you.

[@jevinjensen6209]

I know it’s frustrating, but think for a second about the precedent set by forcing speech.

[@madman026]

@@jonmccauley6490 he is not asking to punish speech he would want to punish the lack there of

[@rebchizelbeak5392]

@@jonmccauley6490 lying to congress is already illegal. This is a form or perjury skirting the loophole. I thought democrats wanted to close loopholes. As long as they are able to plead the 5th, it would be fine. But wouldn’t it seem odd if they were asked “do you want to ban all guns” and they plead the fifth? Besides, democrats already prosecute those that tell the truth

[@meddlesome9252]

​@Jon McCauley I think a yes/no question merits a yes or no response. They can explain after they say yes or no

[@tuseroni6085]

defund the ATF, why are were even spending money on this?

[@garyhogue2367]

He needs to resign he needs to be in prison for killing that guy he’s responsible

[@barrysmith1341]

Nothing like an ongoing effort to make law abiding citizens felons.

[@th3realric154]

You cant be a felon if theres no law to prosecute you with. Its a made up rule that the ATF is trying to enforce when they have no legal authority to make laws out of thin air.

[@seannguyen201]

Creating a 2nd class citizens.

[@ThePikmin18]

Just trying to take guns. Next is semi auto firearms you’ll need to register

[@poisenbery]

you WoN'T be PROseCutED. thIs is TO CATCh THE CarteLS

[@tmi1234567]

Hot take: it is free to register all your form 1 SBRs atm. Just register them.

[@billbernstein4484]

Not mentioned enough is that ATF is "waiving" the $200 tax stamp for an SBR. ATF has no authority to waive a tax imposed by Congress. The whole business sucks and ATF is facing 4 different lawsuits over various issues with it. All four of them should succeed on the merits.

[@ravissary79]

Aside from the fact that doing so is double taxation. Pistols get taxed by the feds, the manufacturer pays this tax, and more severe restrictions are placed on their purchase, waiting periods, etc. By reclassifying these pistols as SBRs, once the grace period is over, they got the taxes on the pistol from the manufacturer, and now they get opposite taxes taken out for it being an SBR. Really this is about illegal compulsory registration.

[@blenke1]

Shit! I didn't think of that! OMG thats not like me... I learned something new to hate about this whole "Rule"

[@almaadams3631]

Some states don't allow registration of sbrs. But the real F¥€|{ YOU is in a lot of states; you can carry a pistol in your car with you. With all the Democrat/globalist endorsed riots going on, people might want an AR15 pistol to help them GET HOME!

[@Mike-In-O-Town]

What chaps my azz is that no judge has issued a TRO for it yet to protect the millions of gun owners who don't have any idea this is even occurring.

[@eddiecaruth7704]

@@blenke1 Yes - - a new way to obtain compulsory registration. Communist leaning, more and more.

[@epickett63]

It was infuriating when the director started 'explaining' his answers to "Does this make the gun fire more rapidly?", etc. I was almost yelling at my screen "Yes or no?!?"

[@lilstubthumb]

Throw everyone involved in the ATF in prison for trying to override the constitution.

[@yawyobwoc]

The rule is made to classify law abiding citizens as felons and give the ATF the 'right' to raid private homes and confiscate legal private property.

[@madman026]

yeah i don't see that going down too well for them but they are welcome to try

[@TheRealSwampOperator]

They've been doing that for several decades now. It's just only now effecting you...

[@drrichardpaul]

Unless they have probable cause, they can’t just raid your house. I know they do, but every time it’s taken to trial, they ATF loses. Most people just plead guilty to these charges, but if you take it to trial, you’ll never lose because people understand the ATF can’t just make laws.

[@pdsmith11803]

@@madman026hey will just do it when you aren’t home, most people work, take their kids to school, etc. it wouldn’t be hard for them to figure out your schedule and then serve you the warrant when you are say, at the office, when most people aren’t armed. Then they simply escort you home in handcuffs to collect your shit. Most arrest warrants are served on people outside of their homes if possible for this very reason. They know they have a greater likelihood of you complying when you aren’t barricaded in your house where you have the upper hand and know the layout.

[@donewithmodernlife]

Yeah ATF’s track record on cases that actually go to trial is abysmal. They just lost the bump stock case & they’re going to lose this case too. Congress has turned a blind eye to the ATF for decades & it’s long overdue for them to get their comeuppance.

[@Derail07]

What a joke... Who hires these people?

[@lamb-mz2sd]

Criminals who don't want you having the ability to defend yourself so they can rob you blind.

[@ericrivera9075]

Unfortunately the same ones that put biden in the presidency

[@A.Clifton]

The jokes are hired by the clowns that tell them.

[@robertlamb7513]

If it takes both Congress and Senate to make other laws who give the ATF the ability to make laws without any other government body's approval

[@Fightosaurus]

REPRESENTATIVE MASSIE IS TEARING IT UP! God bless the American spirit, still lives in old Kentucky! 🇺🇸

[@brandonburnham7831]

They DO NOT get to write their own laws. That is criminal. Hold them accountable

[@michaelschmidt5179]

We the people need to. In our homes, in the streets, at their homes. Not one more gun law, or we take action that our fathers failed to take.

[@iceman5117]

They don't write their own laws. This rule falls under the purview of the 1934 NFA. BATF is an executive authority tasked with enforcing this law. Part of that enforcement comes with interpreting the law itself, in the same way that a traffic cops needs to interpret reckless driving When a whole bunch of people are using "braces" to turn their pistols something functionally identical to a short barreled rifle with an extra piece of velcro, it's only natural that the interpretation will be revised to cover braces as well as velco-free stocks. It's the same exact way the federal government handles research chemicals that aren't quite heroin, but do the same thing

[@ArrakisHeir88]

Just call the cops on ATF agents. Say there are armed thugs at your house trying to break in.

[@ArrakisHeir88]

​@@iceman5117 shall not be infringed.

[@iceman5117]

@@ArrakisHeir88 thought terminating cliches aren't arguments. What shall not be infringed? A piece of plastic isn't an "arm." Even banning all semiautomatic weapons isn't banning "arms" since you can still own repeating weapons, blades and blunt instruments

[@johntrotter7889]

Wow, just wow... first Diddleshit says all people have to do to be legal is slide the brace off - then Massie asks if the pistol in the photo with the brace slid off is legal and Diddleshit can't give a yes or no... Need to completely defund ATF. They are dangerously clueless.

[@dkveracity65able]

Exactly 💯%!

[@blshouse]

He started to say that the piece of plastic isn't illegal, but stopped himself. LOL

[@papabear9481]

There is a major difference between being clueless or having an agenda. The ATF is not clueless.

[@mtnentertainment3454]

Forget defunding, needs abolished

[@BaldVulture87]

ATF's ban is unconstitutional PERIOD

[@thetobaccoguy1751]

So nice to see this actually being challenged directly. Shows just how insane and overreaching the ATF has gone.

[@MrAwsomeshot]

just be nice if Massie said "SBRs in the NFA in 2023 is stupid"

[@boulderbash19700209]

ATF was able to do that because Congress let them (and other agencies) to make regulations as they see fit. Agencies are part of executive, they do not have any business making any law that they call regulations. It's unconstitutional and should be declared null and void.

[@bigleeneth]

The government*

[@aeirsone9045]

Theatre Nothing changed

[@crimsonfalcon07]

It's not being challenged directly until the courts or Congress tells them they can't engage in this sort of overreach. Anything else is just for show. This questioning is legally worthless to anyone facing charges pursuant to this rule change, except maybe if his testimony that you can separate them and it won't count as constructive is legally admissible.

[@baum6721]

"I submit you don't have that authority and you don't have the authority to do what you did." Rep. Massie sums up the existence of the ATF in one sentence.

[@Woodogg18]

ATF should be dismantled

[@mitchio83]

So telling when a person refuses to answer questions.

[@davidjohnson3331]

How is this person in charge of anything other than a lemonade stand ?

[@donewithmodernlife]

You can thank Joe Biden. This is his pick.

[@401RISaint]

No kidding.

[@James-wy6py]

Lemonade stand?? Your giving him too much credit

[@dancoles2235]

​@@James-wy6py true. Imagine getting an answer from this F.A.T. agent when you ask if the lemonade contains fluoridated water? ~"Well... fluoride has been proven to be good for your teeth but we don't add fluoride to the lemonade and the water we get [from the tap] does not contain vulgar fluoride." ... excludes the two types of fluoride compounds that ARE added. I wouldn't want lemonade from this sorceror.

[@--P.R.--]

It's a 10 year prison sentence for avoiding $200 tax. Wesley Snipes spent 2 years for evading millions of dollars.

[@Mike-In-O-Town]

Absurd isn't it....

[@drewchorlton342]

Rules for thee but not for me!

[@bluesman97]

Ladies and Gentlemen.. YOUR taxes paid these monsters to make YOU felons.

[@aolvaar8792]

87,000 Armed IRS LEOs

[@christopherwilliams5808]

10 years in prison for a peice of plastic.

[@tomnbriton]

The ATF should be dissolved. No more Ruby Ridges.

[@JuristPugilist]

I love the way he totally “grilled” him. Asked a bunch of questions in a row without getting a single answer. Easiest examination for the witness-just don’t say anything. What a joke. Stop glorifying this type of investigation. This was a TERRIBLE cross examination.

[@Liberty4Ever]

Article I, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution forbids Congress from passing any ex post facto laws that would retroactively make US citizens felons for actions that were previously legal. Instead, ATF bureaucrats who are not elected are enacting administrative laws that are making Americans ex post facto felons and sending them to prison for ten years.

[@tenofprime]

Exactly, even if you somehow could convince me a brace is suddenly illegal it would only effect new made ones after the date of a ruling. Anything before that is exempt by basic legal logic.

[@Liberty4Ever]

@@tenofprime - Trump's ATF designated bump stocks to be machine guns, so they'll definitely have a go at that ex post facto felony over a stupid piece of plastic.

[@Charlie-do6wv]

That'll be challenged in the Supreme Court and most definitely shot down which will open the ATF up to countless lawsuits which will most certainly drain their budget dry.👍😂

[@jimgordon3206]

Blame the judges who allow this shit to continue.

[@HopingFor3]

@@jimgordon3206 the legislators are also to blame. They are the ones with the power to create laws, yet they will stand by and do nothing

[@embracethesuck1041]

"You're only a felon if you don't follow the law" Well, well. At least he's being honest that the ATF is trying to create law.

[@scottyfromthe80s]

Is there not something in the US Constitution about ex post facto law? How is something legal one day & a felony the next?

[@scythelord]

@@scottyfromthe80s Yes but none of the traitors in washington will ever enforce that to protect gun owners.

[@koleyo9072]

@@scottyfromthe80s Ex post facto laws are not legal according to the Constitution, this is why these types of laws aren't passed by congress, but instead presented as a "ruling" by a federal entity. Many facets of these federal agencies operate contrary to the guidelines set by our founders; these three-letter agencies do not have a serious system of checks and balances, and they can generally act without congressional oversight. These qualities make federal agencies perfect for imposing the will of the ruling class.

[@mallorywoods3653]

He just admitted to the full defensibility of using and owning a brace.

[@taylor943]

This is infuriating as a law abiding Citizen. They don’t even know what they’re enforcing. They are clearly just making it up as they go. Not to mention they look like the weirdest individuals I’ve ever seen. This is really sketch😂

[@matthewconnor5483]

I think the ATF budget should be "reclassified" to $0.

[@ianchampion4201]

ATF thinks they're entitled to do whatever they want and when directly asked they're vague and lack ANY accountability. Case by case basis in this regard is bs, they don't want to provide anything tangible so they can pass the rule and every case without exception will be a violation according to them, such a sham.

[@robvernachio8290]

Yep ATF & FBI got away with murdering 78 civilians in WACO, p

[@Universalguy-e2r]

People can do breaking bad moments and steal from them, but they can’t be held accountable? Who do you think steals their goodies that they confiscate from gun owners?

[@tmi1234567]

So banning a device that is defacto not being used as intended with people shouldering the firearm is bad? I think people are failing to realize that SBRs aren't illegal. They only need to be registered. A registration process that is free currently if they are form 1. The reason why they are reclassified is because people are not using "arm braces" as arm braces. They are shouldering the firearm and using it as a stock. If you want an SBR, just spend the $200 go get it registered, slap a real stock on there, and not worry about any of this.

[@LungZ762]

@@tmi1234567 what about poor ppl? 200$ can make it break less fortunate Americans. So because they are poor they're denied the rights?

[@xenaguy01]

_"Case by case basis in this regard is bs"_ The worst part of that is, the default for the ATF is GUILTY. The default is SEIZURE of the potentally illegal gun, and _MAYBE_ we'll give it back in eight years, after you've spent $40,000 to your attorney.

[@dictumfactum7784]

I wouldn't let deedleback guard a crash register at McDonald's!! Disband the ATF immediately it's a waste of tax money.

[@jefftatum9245]

What a clown. The ATF has ZERO authority to make any regulatory rules on guns without a congressional law to base it. Just ignore them.

[@blowmeyotbweknowugoodfklit2549]

The ATF needs a house cleaning or disbanded.

[@michaelawise48]

Defund the ATF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@terrycoontz]

“Before they’re felons” I spit my coffee up good job Massie

[@Veretax]

Here's the thing doesn't that violate the prohibition on ex post facto laws making something illegal after it may have occurred?

[@InvictusByz]

That line was a lie though, the grace period isn't going to immediately make people felons, that was the director's point. You have to prove *criminal intent* for it to be a felony, which means proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the person's intention was to violate the law. If you didn't mean to break any laws, its literally not a crime. You do NOT have to prove you didn't mean to commit a crime either, the prosecution must *prove* you did intend to commit a crime.

[@InvictusByz]

@@Veretax The criminal intent qualification already covers that. If it was legal when you did it, then it is literally impossible to prove criminal intent.

[@P010010010100101]

​@InvictusByzantium do you realize how easy it is to say they intended to violate the law?

[@InvictusByz]

@@P010010010100101 Extremely easy to *say,* but its actually exceedingly difficult to *prove* in court, because that's what they have to do. Prove, not say.

[@RyanHedlund99]

Jesus Christ. He couldn’t answer a single question.

[@momoniji6439]

People talking about how the ATF can't explain why this and why that when he can't even speak without getting cut off 5 words in a sentence.

[@Lexman00]

Just end the ATF! It's a waste of money. Bureaucracy in America is out of control.

[@rob6850]

"I can't answer your questions directly because I'm just following orders like a good little Party member."

[@almaadams3631]

He is in charge of a bunch of dickless wonders that need to collect a tax payer payed paycheck in order to harass tax payers. To chickenshit to go arrest real criminals........Holy crap! They might shoot back. Go ahead pukes, keep screwing with men that just want to be left alone.

[@mastertater87]

Imagine if agencies put this much effort into helping people

[@desert4seat]

Well, they are! hence the billions sent overseas to Gay Ukraine. Democracy!!

[@eddiecaruth7704]

@@desert4seat The men in southern Ukraine are not fighting to save their country. They are business as usual - - and claim to be relatively unaffected. Just like Syria - - men of fighting age left for Europe. They did not fight for their country.

[@fixerny]

Embarrassing testimony for the ATF. The Director was completely unprepared, and it showed. I hope this goes to SCOTUS via one of the many lawsuits already filed.

[@Bramswarr]

Big question here, why is the director of the ATF not qualified to classify firearms, when it is his responsibility to oversee people who classify firearms? Just how the hell could he possibly do his job?

[@askhowiknow5527]

“They can just detach them and keep them apart” Does he hear himself?

[@mr44mag]

ATF has literally gotten people under "intent to" for people having the right sized oil filter in their garage. They would definitely nail you for owning both parts.

[@jondoe7484]

@@mr44mag and if they tried he just gave every lawyer a wonderful argument from the horses mouth that there was no intent.

[@01nmuskier]

We can trust the ATF to not change their mind. 😂

[@gianni_schicchi]

@@mr44mag Yeah, werent' all those auto lock key things prosecuted successfully with lengthy jailtimes even though they weren't installed?

[@mr44mag]

@@gianni_schicchi 45 and 110 years if I remember correctly. Even though witnesses testified you had to machine the part with some knowledge of gunsmithing, and they still either didn't work, or worked poorly. It was a joke item, but they got more jailtime than drug dealers and killers for something that skilled individuals have trouble making work with professional tools. This government is a joke.

[@mhm92267]

Usually, when someone stumbles over their words it's a sign that they are going to be caught in their lie.

[@roscoep4850]

its just hard to argue something so stupid when its clear the intent is overreaching authoritarian rulemaking. This will go unresolved until someone or several americans get prosecuted then the SCOTUS gets involved and tosses it out just like the bump stock. Bump stocks are novelty items, so is this floppy stock/brace. Al the least, we need to remove SBRs from the registry and move on to suppressors. I want to see the repeal of the 1934 NFA. Full auto friday for everyone.

[@evelynwaugh4053]

Good luck trying to explain when you are interrupted continually by a loud, argumentative examiner.

[@wannabecarguy]

Just came here to let y'all know, this was just a show and no laws have changed.

[@42mag]

@@evelynwaugh4053 The guy would not answer the questions and continued to just babble. Massie wasn't having it. They were all very simple yes or no answers that anyone with any understanding of braces could have answered. But when you have no legal, moral, or logical ground to stand on you can't answer those questions. If the guy actually wanted to answer those questions he could have. Also, the ATF wants people to send them their weapons so they can determine if they are illegal or not.? That's a one way ticket and you will never see your gun again. What a trap. And on top of that the guy lied about about everything being legal if you just take the brace off. There is a whole confusing list of parameters like the type of buffer tube, sights, optics, length of pull, barrel length, pistol grips and so on that could still allow the ATF to prosecute someone.

[@whatsmolly5741]

​@gwn "thank you congressman for allowing me to answer this question"

[@thebrizzy]

Wow, 30 million+ people are looking at 10 years in prison if they don't get something completely unimportant to stopping any crime right.

[@phoenixpendragon3376]

It is time to get rid of all ATF'S

[@clayhughes3263]

The “Director” of these executive agencies should know some of these things before appearing before Congress. Shocking how nobody from this administration seems to know how to answer ANYTHING they are asked.

[@GeoffHellings]

I might argue he knows exactly what he is being asked, what the rules are and is dancing around the questions based on how he wants to be heard. Which in my opinion is even more disturbing. He knows exactly what the ATF is doing and why it is doing it. He just cant say it out loud.

[@gospyro]

@@GeoffHellings Agreed.

[@deepfriedavocado]

back in, i don’t know, fourth grade, we learned about the branches of government. one of the things I remember was when my teacher said, “the executive branch can’t make laws.” I think the ATF should talk to my fourth grade teacher.

[@scottieap6412]

Guess you didn’t learn about corruption

[@dwfolke]

​@Solar General ahhhhhh, so clever of you. Ignoring the actual facts for an ad hominem. Maybe read a book?

[@StinkyGringo]

@Solar General ok zoomer

[@mikeb8342]

Careful relying on teachers to accurately portray things. I remember learning that the job of SCOTUS was to interpret the Constitution.... which clearly isn't the case.

[@JakeWitmer]

Your 4th grade Prussian-model bureaucrat confused the hell out of you and ~330,000,000 other people

[@thomashempstead7512]

Watching your constitutional rights disappear right before your eyes.

[@firefighter0585]

Being able to shoulder a firearm makes it more accurate and hence makes it less likely to hit an unintended target.

[@davidr7333]

Who said this government cares about that?

[@Dragon4377]

That is true but if that person is UNable to "shoulder" the firearm to make accurate control, then use using an ARM brace that makes that weapon cannot be shouldered is now illegal?

[@davidr7333]

@@Dragon4377 I don't think they care anymore, so who knows. From what they have published, merely having it on the firearm makes you a felon even for handicapped. Our government no longer protects disabled . . . or naturally born women in a restroom. Or children for that matter. Right is "wrong" and wrong is "right." Lord help us.

[@Mike-In-O-Town]

This is much ado about nothing. Brace or stock, who cares, the gun functions the same way. If you wanted to get in the weeds you could argue AR pistols are 'less' dangerous than full size AR's because of the ballistic difference with a round exiting the shorter barrel of a pistol over the longer barrel of a rifle. But since these retards don't know the difference between 5.56 and .300 Blackout, this would be a wasted conversation.

[@baddriversofthenorcalarea500]

Yes, but it also changes the weapon classification. The rule is not about making the weapon and more or less safe, it’s about clear classification of weapon types. I don’t agree with the punishment, or failure to properly legislate, but I understand the thought process.

[@Betterifitsfree]

"People are only felons if they intentionally violate the law." See how far that carries you in Federal Court. 2:33

[@ddums89]

Is there an advantage for an able-bodied shooter to shoulder a pistol brace designed for handicap shooters? Form 4 tax stamps are about $200 anyways, only way you can't afford $200 is if you don't have a job.

[@Betterifitsfree]

@@ddums89 If I change the front grill on my 2010 Jeep it becomes individual to me. Highly stylish with better airflow function than the original. The DMV one day decides that it is dangerous and unsafe (unusual) and I must remove it under penalty of law OR pay $200 and it automatically becomes safe again, not dangerous or even unusual. Why? Because it is after June 1,2023 that's why. "... Shall not be infringed".

[@ddums89]

@@Betterifitsfree Ok not a great analogy there, how would a grill on a jeep better help a handicap driver or passanger? I think a better one you could use is if you installed a wheelchair lift, or a mobility trailer on the back. Also bad analogy because I do not know of any pistol braces that are more comfortable than a buttstock.

[@lilryan10788]

I didn't intentionally buy that cocaine

[@GryphonIndustrial]

@@ddums89 And have to submit a Form 20 to the ATF to ask for permission to take it out of the state, which takes weeks to get approved? How about no.

[@ralan350]

When they can not answer a simple yes or no question says a lot

[@soccerman9307]

Defund the ATF .

[@BeamDigger]

At the very end he says, "The piece of plastic, in and of itself, does not..." like he was saying that just having a pistol brace isn't a violation. Well, the recent Auto Key Card case verdict would beg to differ. In that case, they judged the *intention* of what the metal card with a drawing on it would be used for. Not the actual use. So the AFT is speaking out of both sides of their mouth.

[@Saurygiel]

Underrated comment

[@mytoob1671]

Nailed it.

[@audiss111]

You spelled “asshole” wrong

[@Texasfishingfamily]

That is one of the strongest points I have heard to date. Also does having a silencer not attached to a firearm without a tax stamp still make you a felon?

[@christopherwombles2867]

​@@Texasfishingfamily yes because you did not pay the government their extortion money for the privilege to own it

[@digialityproductions793]

So the real question is now that congress has gotten together twice on this brace subject what will happen? Will they punish the ATF and nullify the unconstitutional rule, or do nothing to protect the law abiding citizens from this infringement and overreach.

[@sistockbridge8764]

They'll do nothing

[@ruthlessrubberducky5729]

What do you think?

[@kraftwurx_Aviation]

It's not the legislative branches job. It's the judicial branch...

[@SpectreDM]

Congress has oversight on the executive branch agencies they set up by law. ATF was created by and foes answer to Congress. They can remove it from existence. However, that bill goes through the usual process. Therefore, the democrats are the ones stopping this. They take zero interest in the merits of the complaints. They want to use the ATF to enact gun control. GOP can't do anything. I don't know how many care in the broader GOP assembly in D.C., but Massie cares a lot. There are several very pro-Constitution people in right now. They could apply the pressure to achieve it if A) GOP had a veto-proof majority or B) Dems had anyone who gave a damn and wanted to steer the party.

[@erikkassner9324]

It’s all theater.

[@Koppu1doragon]

Disband the ATF period.

[@xro5841]

Start asking them Why they are creating LAWS or RULES that effect Law Abiding Citizens instead of Criminals. How does making it a crime to shoulder a Pistol, prevent a CRIMINAL from Committing a crime?

[@dman31804]

He knew he was getting grilled and STILL didn’t prepare for this. He signed off on a rule that should have no weight and he doesn’t have a clue on anything!!!

[@edwardspaccarelli5944]

I’ve heard the line “I’ll have to get back to you on that” or something similar from every department or agency head in this administration. My response to all of them would be “Do you own a cellphone?” Make a call and get me the info NOW. None of this “I’ll get back to you” crap.

[@thomasroberts5658]

Yea like guck face Fauci

[@klj2382]

Imagine if you bullshitted at work like this when asked a question. How long would you have a job?

[@marnixbrugmans4181]

​@@klj2382 I've said "I'll get back to you" pretty often in my job. Not fired yet. How many people does this guy leqd? You expect him to know by heart everything the ATF does? He's responsible for it, don't get me wrong, that's part of his job. But "how many people have registered braces?" if I get asked that question, I'd reach out to my team, get them to pull the list of all items classified as braces and then they'll check how many are classified for each. That's a few hours to days not a 2 min call. Feel free to not agree with the guy, but try to not be an idiot while you are

[@shanemays3696]

does ATF actually do anything for the benefit of anyone but themselves?

[@Bloomy1228]

This guy is such a pos and should be held accountable for all the corruption and mishandling of the ATF

[@dougsg21]

In the private sector, when you fail to answer questions from the person who signs your pay check, you likely get fired. ATF director should also be fired for the same action.

[@ajkendro3413]

Congress is not his boss. His boss is Biden. The ATF can make rules but are unenforceable because they aren't laws.

[@Andrew-jm4tp]

"People are only felons if they intentionally violate the law." Really? I think a lot of people are in jail for unintentional acts.

[@deltaromeo1515]

I follow LAWS, not rules. I've never heard of anyone going to prison for breaking rules. Nor should they.

[@MisterVyle]

The ATF need to be treated like a foreign enemy and dealt with accordingly.

[@emberjaxx585]

“People are only felons if they knowingly violated the law.” That my friend is a bunch of bs.

[@parkave2406]

Short barrel rifle, that term is a laughing stock across the world. “Only felons” if we don’t jump and ask how high?

[@TheRealSwampOperator]

Law abiding gun owner - somebody the government hasn't figured out how to call a felon....yet

[@BryceAWD]

I absolutely love the fact that the director of the atf sits there and says over and over he doesn't know. THE DIRECTOR OF THE ATF DOESN'T KNOW HOW THE F PART OF HIS ORGANIZATION WORKS!

[@Stephen2846]

Answer the question as asked or be charged with "Contempt of Congress." If you ever did this in a Court you'd be held in contempt and punished in some way.

[@ClokworkGremlin]

The problem is that the rule is a relic from an earlier version of the NFA that was later removed, but the SBR rule was not removed. The correct course of action would be to remove SBR classifications from the NFA.

[@Gaspard129]

That's the real kicker. One of the original intents of the NFA was to prohibit pistols. They added the SBR/SBS rules to prevent people from claiming that their otherwise banned pistols are infact rifles or shotguns. When the pistol prohibition was removed from the draft, the SBR/SBS rule wasn't, leaving us with this frankly stupid vestigial law.

[@TheVillainInGlasses]

The correct course of action would really be to repeal the NFA in it's entirety.

[@thomasroberts5658]

Thst would be the simplest way to do it remove short bbl rifles from the nfa

[@jwreagan]

OR... hear me out... we just get rid of the NFA... defund and disband the ATF... we have all the records destroyed if they have been put into any form of searchable database, prosecute anyone who was making the database (or just make all their information available through a simple FOIA request... (then the snitches can look over their shoulders, and worry if someone may kick in their door... fun to turn the tables)

[@punishingbirb4180]

​@@TheVillainInGlasses based

[@PD_Swag]

Should’ve asked him at the end “does anyone *other than congress* have the authority to reclassify this weapon because it can be shouldered?” The ATF guy keeps falling back on the “firearms experts” but that has no leverage or legitimacy because even said experts don’t have the authority to reclassify. It doesn’t matter what they think, we are not a country run by a panel of “experts,” we are run by representatives who swore an oath to uphold our constitution and all the rights entailed within it.

[@Wangan300]

Unfortunately, the second amendment isn't just a short amendment to the left. You have to understand that they lie to themselves so much that their idea is their reality.

[@armeniansdoitbetter]

How it should be. That's not how it is now.

[@StephenCarmona]

This bureaucrat has already admitted in hearings that he is not a Firearms expert, an alcohol expert or an explosives expert. He's a prosecutor.

[@davidbielski3484]

Ever since nuclear proliferation of the 1950s "the experts" deemed it necessary that we become world run by panels of "experts" they just weren't supposed to make it so goddamm obvious.

[@jlogan2228]

Are these the same experts that say shit like an AR 15 round can blow a torso apart? Or call it fully semi automatic fore

[@danieljones1981]

Defund the ATF

[@Spikee3322]

Since when does the ATF have the right to make rules and laws?

[@Tinytox]

"people are only felons if they knowingly violate the law" is NOT how our legal system works.

[@professorgoat1099]

you dont need to be a certified "firearms expert" to determine whether or not you can shoulder the firearm with just the buffer tube. the answer is : yes, you absolutely can shoulder it (literally pick one up, shoulder it and fire a round - boom, you just did it). and NO, the atf doesnt have ANY authority to re-classify because someone decides to use it improperly.

[@professorgoat1099]

i can technically shoulder my fkn pistol.. lmfao place it against your shoulder, press the trigger. congrats, you just shouldered a pistol. now the atf is going to show up at 4 in the morning, mumble some words, kick your door open, shoot your dog and then shoot you bc you came down the stairs with a gun in your hand.

[@Mike-In-O-Town]

'If' ATF can succeed on this brace rule, you can bet your bottom dollar they'll be back for AR pistols themselves next. Just a piece at a time....

[@blshouse]

Claiming it takes a "certified expert" is only so they can selectively prosecute/persecute whomever they wish.

[@ShaggyRogers1]

@@blshouse The term "certified expert" is an oxymoron. There is literally no such thing as being an "expert" in telling a pistol from a rifle. It is an appeal to authority to both obfuscate liability and ignore the question. If it takes a "certified expert" to tell a pistol from a rifle, then it is literally impossible to try to act like a normal citizen can have intent on the issue. A citizen can't "intend" to make an SBR out of a braced pistol if it takes a "certified expert" to tell one from the other.....