Thomas Massie Asks Witness Point Blank Why Tesla Has Lower ESG Rating Than Tobacco Company

[@peoplez129]

ESG is a politically based social credit score.

[@WalterDempsey-bj6ut]

Interesting thing about ESG, the concept comes from the CCP!!

[@brianmangan15]

Exactly right

[@Thalasaur]

@@WalterDempsey-bj6ut Can you prove that? I don't have a hard time believing it, but it'd be really neat to be able to point out the connection.

[@Zaphod771]

​@@Thalasaur, it is really similar, but has different origins. ESG comes from SRI which comes from a book called "silent spring" (an environmentalist horror book). CCP social credit system seems to be cooked up by Communists as a way to "gamify" conformity. So, it's the same philosophy, but one of them is driven by the party while the other one comes from the banking conglomerates.

[@vorpalinferno9711]

ESG score is a measure how harmful to humanity it is. The bigger the score the more the harm.

[@markseaman4750]

Thomas Massie is a really smart guy who sees right through the BS.

[@DeveloperChris]

Except he doesn't know how esg works. So I don't think he is all that smart. The lower the esg score the more sustainable and less risk the company is so Phillip Morris is double the score because it is twice as risky.

[@paulharper7185]

@@DeveloperChris Neither does Investopedia , ESG book, or 1000s of other sites OR your not all that smart.

[@scratchpenny]

@@DeveloperChris You're wrong or making stuff up. A higher score is considered better.

[@DeveloperChris]

@@scratchpenny it seems it depends on who provides the score some go with letters (AAA,BBB etc), some go with numbers some go with reverse numbers (lower better). The one I looked at had PM at 85 and Tesla at 27 others have them neck and neck. However I'd still put Philip Morris substantially higher risk, even though they are trying very heavily to rebrand themselves as "smokeless" they still make all their money from tobacco. so no not green not friendly.

[@NoTimeForMorons]

@@DeveloperChris Wrong again. Just give up and take the L.

[@rLxJake]

Simple. Tesla has a 37 ESG score because Elon Musk believes in freedom and a meritocracy.

[@stevemt3238]

Correct, just like Blacks aren't recognized if they hold conservative views.

[@murrayroodbaard207]

The concept of ESG is not about the actual meaning of ESG. It is about radical leftism. And ESG is just a small but ultimately non-essential part of that, just like "women's rights" is part of radical leftism but ultimately a non-essential part of it (see women's right vs trans rights). So yes, it is precisely because Elon Musk is regarded as "right-wing" and believes in freedom, that they are screwing him and Tesla.

[@ComplyAndDie87]

Elon is evil. You are blind. He is doing everything they are working on.

[@00M6TA]

Much of the targetting of Elon Musk began after he denied use of starlink for military purposes in Ukraine.

[@thegood9]

Yep. One of the true good guys that are also unbelieveably wealthy. A rare combo. He actually CARES about the Human Race.

[@VotePaineJefferson]

ESG investing is a joke!

[@alanpartington2540]

But about as fiunny a a hole in a parachute

[@frankdesantis8078]

A joke, but that’s what’s happening. 😊

[@prague7706]

@@frankdesantis8078when it proves unprofitable it will be dumped into the trash bin of history with the rest of the detritus left behind in the wake of the machine.

[@mortsdans]

​@@prague7706 it is about control and they're willing to lose profits in order to control

[@SlyNine]

​their goal is to make it unprofitable to not do business without good ESG scores. It's a systematic attack on free markets and meritocracy.

[@petermaver8466]

Every pension fund should allow members to opt out of ESG businesses.

[@kevingrierson2331]

The problem is almost every public company uses it. They need to in order to apply for bank financing. You will be hard pressed to find a company that doesn't use esg unfortunately.

[@user-zu5do6ri6r]

The ESG has been forced on us, against our will.

[@maidenminnesota1]

And every 401K and other investment should allow you to opt out of BlackRock, Vanguard and State Street.

[@davidwalker1793]

It just proves that ESG is just another bureaucratic subjective measurement. When a witness states that he considers 100s, 1000s of factors when arriving at ESG scores just demonstrates how farcical it is. All it seems to achieve is adding more costs to operating a company without any measurable rewards.

[@ipadsrawesome3667]

Well maybe if they provided the questins in advance he would have an answer. There is a detailed report on how the figure came out which could be explained. Im guessing the tobacco company hires women, has a diversified board that doesnt pay the ceo 50bn

[@tongpoo8985]

It's basically aflirbative yackshun just with a little softer enforcement. At the end of the day just forcing them to hire based on skrin color rather than content of character/credentials. And sensual orientation as well

[@eds7343]

I would never follow an ESG score. Nor would I do business with demons like Vanguard, Blackrock or State Street

[@chstra45]

Problem is big group funds (pensions, mutuals, ECT.) do. And that's why they like to mess with those scores.

[@mrchowrules295]

i don't think they mind not having your business, they seem to be doing just fine.

[@virtuerse]

@@chstra45without public knowledge, when this gets out you’ll see the suits start to roll out.

[@davidrounds3245]

Vanguard is not the same as the other two. Vanguard is owned by every person who is a customer. The investors own Vanguard and it is as big as it is because it has the best track record on honesty and lowest fees.

[@prague7706]

@@mrchowrules295Maybe he wouldn’t do business with them because he feels the right thing, regardless of whether it ‘bothers’ them or not. Novel concept huh?

[@angelabernathy8700]

My answer to the headline question. Because he isn't hiring DEI hires. He's hiring those who are qualified by merit.. not boxes.

[@chucklesthered2338]

Bingo! You win.

[@oreillysc1]

That’s why he is doing well

[@mellowphantpi9168]

Tell me you don’t know anything about ESG without telling me.

[@dr.emilschaffhausen4683]

Mellow, dispute it with facts. My company is all on board with ESG/DEI. Promises a 45% diverse workforce by 2030.

[@mellowphantpi9168]

​@@dr.emilschaffhausen4683 It's got nothing to do with who they hire. This isn't brand new, the ESG ratings are cooked. This is about money. They have been bought since I began paying attention (4 years). The concept is great; I think we should be holding companies responsible for their impact on the environment and society. But those ESG ratings are not genuine in the slightest. It's not some complex plot, it's just about the money.

[@johndoull2766]

Screw this woke ESG BS.

[@JohnKerbaugh]

No, he's on target. This is colution for profit full stop.

[@alanagnew3451]

If tobacco got an 80, but Telsa got under 40, it makes me wonder what makes these ratings work.

[@user-zu5do6ri6r]

The score is based on how much the company donated to the party.

[@brianbagnall3029]

But the mosaic!

[@dkBybee]

Yes

[@KellyBarron-c2k]

It’s about control. Period.

[@vorpalinferno9711]

ESG score is a measure how harmful to humanity it is. The bigger the score the more the harm.

[@themonsterunderyourbed9408]

​@@vorpalinferno9711 ESG itself says it's the opposite

[@vorpalinferno9711]

@@themonsterunderyourbed9408 You believe in what things 'say'? do you believe in fairies and unicorns?

[@manuelper]

The ESG score can serve a purpose. Just invert the list.

[@racekar80]

ESG should be outlawed.

[@JakeWitmer]

It's a criminal conspiracy

[@christines8529]

ESG is a grift. You can't expect grifters to give honest answers.

[@user-vs4uh1vr8v]

I have a great respect for Thomas Massie. An honest human being and a true American patriot

[@josephhobbs4754]

He is a walking contradiction. He lives his personal life like a tree hugging hippy and has the political persona to the right of a MAGA conservative.

[@b2andre]

@@josephhobbs4754 You do know that the overwhelming majority of "MAGA" conservatives want government to be shrunk by like 80% right?...the same way tree hugging hippies using do too...

[@BobWithHat]

@@josephhobbs4754sorry, I'm not American, can you please explain why being labeled a "MAGA conservative" is a bad thing? Your comment seems to imply that

[@josephhobbs4754]

@@BobWithHat MAGA from a government sense is doing Trump bidding, usually at the expense of the country. Decades of court precedents have been undone by a MAGA SCOTUS. MAGA Legislators vote as a block to appease one man who is not the president. Trump doesn't share the same motivations as his MAGA supporters. Trump is running to get tax breaks for the billionaire donors and to stay avoid jail. Trump's MAGA campaign is about job growth, guns, and securing the border. He will not pass any laws he campaigns on.

[@John83833]

We need more representatives like Massie! I like how he is polite but also cuts through the bullshit in a methodical way.

[@sterlingbradford3799]

Because it’s a political weapon.

[@878Docto]

How come Warren Buffet does not go by ESG ratings?

[@chucklesthered2338]

Cause he ain't stupid.

[@virtuerse]

@@Unknown-rb3ipNo, he’s a legacy investor. If you think he has the kind of pull that a Larry Fink-type does, you’re absolutely deluded.

[@virtuerse]

@@Unknown-rb3ip I’m not saying it’s blissful or beyond Buffets capabilities, would you mind dropping a company or some keywords or dates so I can look this up for myself? I’m not a buffet-simp.

[@dwwolf4636]

Buffet was a key player in getting keystone XL killed. That he owned stock in companies involved in train based crude transport is purely a cooincidink.

[@MakerInMotion]

He was in his 80s when the woke revolution kicked off.

[@pascalouellette8516]

ESG scores are a joke but implicate the specs for the scores they don't actually have meaning...

[@dwwolf4636]

ESG is selfdealing. It allows executives to grant themselves a performance bonus for engaging with metrics that have *nothing* to do with their fiduciary duties and which may infact hurt the business by hurting company performance.

[@Pehz63]

Except part of your fiduciary duty is to avoid regulatory backlash from your operation... Obviously if you break laws, then you might get hit with fines and other punishments. Nobody seems to understand what ESG is and they just assume it's a moral grading system and not a financial grading system, even though it's always been used in the financial investment context. ESG has never intended to score companies on their moral values, or real environmental impact. It has always intended to score companies on how likely they are to violate laws and get punished for that. If you have an oil company that obeys every law but still harms environment, then it gets a high ESG score because it has low risk. If you have a green energy company that breaks a lot of laws and isn't unionized, then it gets a low ESG score because there's a high risk of that company getting a fine or otherwise punished. The problem is that people conflated "conforms to environmental regulation" with "good for environment". But when you point this out, everyone realizes it's obvious that the regulation is insufficient and often counterproductive for the actual goals of minimizing environmental harm.

[@SquareNoggin]

​@@Pehz63 I think people get the sense that the likelihood a given firm has of being scrutinized by regulators and legislators has become kinda arbitrary and political, and that ESG has even become relevant is just a reflection of the fact that government is picking winners and losers for political reasons that are increasingly vague, incoherent, and unjust. Am I wrong? In a way it is a morality score - but morality according to a political class that seems to think and behave more and more like some new version of 20th century communists. It's like ESG is just a measure of how likely a firm is to run afoul of the central planners who seek to shape the economy to fit into their very particular vision of what an economy should be. If you're not on board with the program, you'll get a low score because you're likely to get the eye of sauron turned onto you, and I gather that laws and regulations these days are so complex and vast that the regulatory enforcers and the courts have a lot of discretion as to who they spend time scrutinizing. It seems like it's a tool for central planning economies and that (rightly) raises red flags for people. Even the way you describe it makes it sound that way. Could it not be the case, as well, that the cart comes before the horse? That firms assigned low ESG scores (for whatever reason and by whatever mechanism that happens) are then pursued by the state because of that, as opposed to the ESG scores simply being reflective of the likelihood of that happening? I'm just a worker I don't really know shit that's why I'm asking.

[@gregorymalchuk272]

You are rhe only person here who mentioned this. ESG is, at its heart, a massive fiduciary duty law violation.

[@Pehz63]

​@@gregorymalchuk272 What do you mean? Do you mean that having a low ESG score is a violation of fiduciary duty? I don't necessarily agree. Not all outcomes are a choice, and some choices have tradeoffs. Incompetence isn't illegal, and some noncompliance is due to incompetence. For example, you could be noncompliant with environmental regulations because the regulation changed suddenly and it takes time to align with it again because your company is bloated and took bad gambles. If Trump was elected president, the environmental regulations would be a lot more relaxed, so there's some unpredictability of policy. Another example is you might be deliberately noncompliant because the benefits outweigh the cost of compliance. I'm no law expert but I would expect these are both legal in terms of fiduciary duty unless you make assumptions to the contrary. Also, ESG is one of MANY MANY different stock price measurement tools. A more commonly used one is p/e ratio. If hypothetically a company decision increases earnings at the cost of ESG, then if anything I think it's their fiduciary duty to make that decision.

[@Zed_Oud]

It may, but the Governance aspect is exactly supposed to look at things like the long-term health of the company.

[@eltzrothm1]

I love voting for this guy!

[@riverotter68]

Trump calls him a RINO and supported his primary opponent

[@kevingrierson2331]

I wish I could!

[@oreillysc1]

This is why they have to force DEI. If everyone does it then everyone has terrible results. But if companies don’t implement it they will crush the companies that do.

[@quantgeekery6358]

I work in finance as a quantitative research analyst NO ONE TRUSTS ESG RATINGS NUMBERS. And, no one ought to trust ESG ratings numbers.

[@SquareNoggin]

So I gotta ask - what sort of influence do they have then? If they're a measure of anything, it seems like they'd indicate how likely regulatory agencies and legislators are to scrutinize or just make life difficult for a given firm (or an entire industry), no? Which frankly does seem like it could be a meaningful issue as far as their profitability and growth potential or whatever. It's unjust, it's like underhanded central planning in a way, but being in the good graces of the global western political class seems like it might be important for a business. I'm just a factory worker I don't really know shit - and it's reassuring to hear finance guys say "we don't take it seriously" but at the same time, the ESG type ideologues do seem to be the sort of people that populate western governments and their various interventionist bureaucracies, and those types of people are all over the courts as well. Does that not factor in to how you all think of ESG?

[@Zed_Oud]

This is the point, there can be ratings and rankings, but a private process will lead to the same results as when AAAs were being glad-handed to every mortgage-backed-security up through the 2008 Crash.

[@quantgeekery6358]

@@Zed_Oud The essence of a free-market process is "buyer beware." When that is not the case, the market is not free at all.

[@Zed_Oud]

@@quantgeekery6358 good thing we’ve aimed for “a well regulated market” ever since Adam Smith proposed Capitalism to the Framers.

[@normnielsen]

Massie is a legend. Love the guy.

[@WillProwse]

seems like the only good politician right now

[@WillProwse]

honest*

[@WillProwse]

And he runs his house with offgrid solar system

[@bls5160]

Wish he was going to be our next President with Rand Paul as Vice President and RFK Jr as Attorney General. We would have this country on track again really fast.

[@masonhales]

ESG is basically a measure of how controlled any given company is by blackrock.

[@briant7265]

Underrated comment.

[@evan56789]

Witness: "please don't make me admit we promote discriminatory employment policies"

[@briant7265]

I suspect the opposite. He admits to having no idea how it's calculated. Smart numbers people don't make decisions based on numbers they don't understand, and can't fit into their formulas. It might be that he doesn't want to admit that they completely ignore it.

[@michaelstreeter3125]

@@briant7265 You may be on to something there! (1) he doesn't know how the numbers are calculated (2) he owns Tesla (3) he doesn't own Morris. So, those facts support what you're saying.

[@Leafbinder]

What they should be asking is Why the Tobacco Companies Rating is SO HIGH!!!!

[@Necropheliac]

It’s not about protecting civil rights or the environment, it’s all about doing the Hokey Pokey and turning yourself around to get the right score to look good in your balance sheet. Every time the government puts their thumb on the scale they make things worse. The best example is all of these restaurants closing in CA.

[@Pehz63]

Nobody seems to understand what ESG is and they just assume it's a moral grading system and not a financial grading system, even though it's always been used in the financial investment context. ESG has never intended to score companies on their moral values, or real environmental impact. It has always intended to score companies on how likely they are to violate laws and get punished for that. If you have an oil company that obeys every law but still harms environment, then high ESG because it has low risk. If you have a green energy company that breaks a lot of laws and isn't unionized, then low ESG score because there's a high risk of that company getting a fine or otherwise punished.

[@themonsterunderyourbed9408]

​@@Pehz63 False. What do the letters "ESG" stand for?

[@Pehz63]

@@themonsterunderyourbed9408 Feel free to Google it if you're curious. I have a better question for you, what's the difference between single and double materiality?

[@UnlikelyToRemember]

ESG is non-governmental. ESG ratings are done by companies, for example: MSCI, Sustainalytics, Refinitiv, Moody's, ECPI, Sensefolio, and Inrate

[@themonsterunderyourbed9408]

@@UnlikelyToRemember yeah and Twitter was non-governmental... But then Elon exposed what they were doing.

[@stephenoshaughnessy2279]

Someone should put together a graph of ESG vs quality.

[@somuchfortalent]

Why don't you do it?

[@WalterDempsey-bj6ut]

Damn that Thomas Massie!! Exposing the bullshit of ESG!! Wish we had more like him!!

[@ohger1]

That wasn't his intention though..

[@dudleybrown7030]

Thomas Massie is the GOAT of Congress.

[@bajajoes1]

He has NO AIPAC minder!

[@ohger1]

Not the goat, the horse's ass.

[@bls5160]

@@ohger1 Why would you say such a rude remark?

[@ohger1]

@@bls5160 Because it's true. Only a horse's ass would pay attention to "ESG" ratings or believe it has any relevance in the legitimate business world. A company that runs it's company based on ESG is doing a disservice to its employees and investors.

[@bls5160]

@@ohger1 Well you are entitled to your opinion and I don't know anything about this topic anyway. I just think if you disagree with him caring about this issue you don't have to call him something like that. I recently listened to the interview he did with Tucker Carlson and came to admire and respect Mr Massie and where he stands on many of the issues this country is facing right now.

[@trentp151]

"Demand management" Sounds more like "Supply controls" In other words, they make more money if things with high demand are scarce.

[@carlonardone2134]

Excellent point, taken by itself it comes off as a responsible thing but when done with coordination lower supply increases prices ( total value might decrease but be balanced out by higher profitability)

[@thefance4708]

Did we even watch the same video? The witnesses weren't actually raising prices. They were just slashing supply to save the environment. *Massie* is the one who suggested raising prices.

[@nguyep4]

​@thefance4708 They could raise price at any time and would justify it that way.

[@AthenaSaints]

1:21, Tesla has lower ESG rating, they own Tesla. Philip Morris has higher ESG rating, but they don't own Philip Morris.

[@truthsayer9534]

Yep. It’s all about control.

[@dhootparm]

People only pay attention to headlines. That one line would have killed that argument in any rational argument.

[@YoucantSeeme-tp7ws]

Ostensibly, Massie was pointing out the ESG score discrepancy between a company that focuses on electric vehicles, and arguably had the most global impact on adoption of electric vehicles after proving it was financially viable, and releasing their patents freely, and a cigarette manufacturer (with a side business in some food brands). Additionally, he could not explain how ESG was calculated, so either he was being deceptive, or is incompetent. To your point I did find it funny when the witness said that they own Tesla, and not Philip Morris, but I think the point still stands.

[@NateDecker1982]

You are confused. Higher scores are better. So Tesla is ranked poorly and Phillip Morris is rated well despite EVs being far better for than environment than cigarettes.

[@banksuvladimir]

@@NateDecker1982how is he confused, fuckin dope?

[@SaidAlhayek]

I like Thomas Massie. He kept it professional. Unlike many other showmen, I mean congressmen.

[@DISOPtv]

It's like the cooked the books and lied to investors. Sounds familar

[@ProTrump1966]

Close the whole Swamp Down

[@930Tony]

Protect Thomas Massie at all costs.

[@MFJones1]

ESG scores mean nothing to me when I’m investing in a company

[@UnlikelyToRemember]

Which is exactly as it should be. Anyone is free to set up a rating system and rank companies on it. Any investor is free to ignore or use those ratings as they see fit (presumably based on how well the rated factors align with their investment strategy). Thus, in my mind this hearing was a complete waste of everyone's time. Like ESG, OK use it. Don't like it, OK don't use it. If I create a company rating based on how much I think the CEO is pompous d-bag, do we need a Congressional Hearing on that??

[@Zed_Oud]

So good corporate Governance is a sham idea? Maximizing short term profits and short term shareholder returns first and foremost?

[@Jimbojoebob]

I am a huge fan of Massie.

[@Thor-Orion]

He’s kind of my hero, honestly. The last honest man in the US government.

[@warlord8954]

That he won't answer a direct question with a direct answer is telling that he doesn't want to reveal his true ideas, thoughts, and beliefs. When someone is lying to you you know it and he is a liar.

[@ohger1]

He doesn't want to speak the truth - companies that hire with DEI in mind are going to die. Companies that hire strictly by merit will survive. Things in the corporate world are tough enough without adding dealing with loons in your company.

[@nguyep4]

ESG is about shaping one's agendas for better or worst, in this case worst.

[@AttackCop]

The Higher the ESG the less likely I invest in

[@GaryWoodVet]

I see Sen Massie has his precious in his pocket. These people never have a clue who they're up against. Imagine more than 5 minutes. Gotta love his simple questioning based on solid truth.

[@jamesh318]

I find it amusing that they do it right in front of us and think we don’t see it.

[@CarlCarlson-jq3xr]

They know we see it. They also know we wont do anything because we are weak and dumb cowards. Which they are right about

[@hackdotx4060]

@@CarlCarlson-jq3xr Shalom Rabbi Sheckleberg, how's the weather in Tel Aviv today?

[@johnpalmer5131]

As far as I go, I think the higher the ESG the more likely a company is focusing the wrong things😂

[@alanlight7740]

ESG scores may start out unreliable, but as bad actors game the ESG scores it may become a reasonably reliable indicator of leadership's sliminess.

[@Zed_Oud]

Governance is bad? So they shouldn’t emphasize long-term growth versus short-term? They should only look at short-term shareholder gains above even the long-term health of the company? Governance?

[@alanlight7740]

@@Zed_Oud - long term thinking and the health of a company is great. With time ESG scores may become a reliable counter-indicator for that, but currently these scores are not fully reliable.

[@trainingzonefootballacadem1185]

Why are investment companies telling corporations how to run their businesses in the first place? This is why we are in the place we are today. Investment companies need to stay out of corporate America.

[@somuchfortalent]

Investment companies represent the investors.

[@trainingzonefootballacadem1185]

@@somuchfortalent Not anymore. They only represent their own interests or political views.

[@patrickgrieco1121]

I got your Mosaic right here pal...people are going to get hurt by your intentional cowardice.

[@king6dutch]

Massie is the best. If every person in positions of power was like him, this world would be a better place.

[@ohger1]

Agree, hatred and jealousy would cease to exist because everyone would live in the same shithole.

[@squashua16]

Private equity is so over valued they need an apocolypse to hide the damage at this point. Name one thing that hasnt gotten worse in the last 10 years.

[@erikkovacs3097]

I believe Chevron has an ESG score higher than Tesla as well.

[@Tzhz]

The lower and ESG score the better for a company as an investor

[@ramseycattn5941]

The lower the rating, the better the company.

[@Zed_Oud]

Tesla’s Governance is awful. Is there a worse governed publicly traded large corporation (still operating)? For example, WeWork.

[@kokonut6215]

"demand management"???!!!?? So there are enough people with deep pockets to sustain profitability without investing in creating more availability for those of lesser means. No more need of competition which provides availability to us "commoners". Imagine applying "Demand Management" to the food supply??? Or maybe that is already happening? Food, adequate quantities of healthy food, is becoming affordable only for those who have the means, and this will still be profitable for those who make it available.

[@garp9433]

Demand management is the simple law of demand and supply. Cost goes up when supply falls, so when they want the same money they can offer less. Simple. The way they do it, smells like price fixing

[@thefance4708]

Technically correct, and dead wrong. Since you haven't actually watched the video, they weren't actually raising prices.

[@huverdoose]

The first guy never revealed that just because they pay attention to it doesn't mean that they exclude the possibility it has a negative impact on investment interest.

[@chadhartsees]

What kind of world do we live where companies are being told the way forward is to have less customers and produce less.

[@Synthwalk]

I'm legitimally interested in the used metrics and word gymnastics that they must've done to manage that score disparity.

[@joseevaniersel7280]

Does that investor not know why he was called to testify?? Aren't these people embarrassed to sit there telling the senate 'they have no recollection', that 'they have to get back to you'??

[@Commandoj251]

Exxon has a higher ESG score than Tesla. Clown show.

[@jamesshepherd8565]

Simple answer,because twitter.

[@jodihouts6032]

He had low scores before buying Twitter. It's political and has been since 2016, maybe earlier. First time I heard of ESG was after Trump was elected, after opting out of the Paris accords..

[@NoBrakes23]

ESG is racketeering

[@jdbertel33]

RIP Mrs. Massie

[@carrtb]

Waiting for one of them to say what they really think: “Mr Massie, we don’t give a rip about ESG.”

[@briant7265]

The fact that he doesn't know how it's calculated or what it means is a good indication that they ignore it. He just doesn't want to come right out and say so. If he was asked about return on net assets, he could give a nice summation of what it is, what it means, how they use it, and what other factors they balance that against.

[@Zed_Oud]

People don’t know what the G is for 😂

[@realtalk5931]

Part of the mosaic guys. Comey flashbacks.

[@alanlight7740]

The claimed principle behind ESG is a good one: that while a company must be profitable to survive it is more than merely a profit-making machine. This is something that Americans used to know intuitively, and it's why capitalism worked so well in the United States - because _most_ entrepreneurs had a moral compass and wanted to benefit the community. Most notably, investors and entrepreneurs should be free to create mission-driven companies that are not only about profit. This is what Tesla has essentially done, and the fact that it has been very profitable is just a side effect of executing that mission very well. It turns out that customers value companies that try to do right by them. The big problem with ESG is that what investors value will vary a great deal, and there is no way to create an objective assessment that is boiled down to a single number. Moreover, any attempt to do so will be gamed by unethical players - so much so that a high score might rightly be considered a warning sign.

[@GM4ThePeople]

More good work from Thomas Massie. He's one of the good ones. o/

[@danwhiffen9235]

🙏 for Massie family

[@DrummerJacob]

How many times is he going to make that same comparison. He doesn't even seem like he's asking the right guy.

[@jamesbjorlie]

Tom is a stud. Sharp thinker.

[@James-Specter]

RIP to thomas's wife. I pray she is in a better place

[@chuckwhitson654]

Thomas Massie is the modern Thomas Jefferson. Please pray for him and his kids they lost his wife yesterday

[@JakeWitmer]

He's better than Jefferson...the modern Thomas Paine or Sam Adams

[@theyaden]

The potential monopoly laws that may be violated aside I guess the tobacco company was willing as south park put it "throw a chick in it and make it super gay" to get the ESG rating 😛

[@jorgeguzman8083]

Forbes should mention that the bald guy is Dan Bienvenue the Chief Investment Officer for Calpers the California state retirement system. Without that knowledge, it seems like Massie is interviewing a random portfolio manager and asking him about ESG scores produced by an unrelated company S&P Global. Not sure why Forbes doesn't identify him and covers his name up with their banner so it was difficult to figure this out. Instead of California's retirement system that obviously considers ESG scores quite a bit.

[@jasonhas7456]

All talk

[@therafter7494]

Esg is just code for social credit score

[@therafter7494]

The better the dei the better the esg

[@therafter7494]

If you aren't climate conscious enough you will get a low score

[@patricecomedy]

This is beautiful

[@ProTrump1966]

Stop funding the Swamp

[@dr.emilschaffhausen4683]

ESG scores are like something out of an episode of Black Mirror.

[@usafkevinls1]

Get rid of ESG!

[@cmvamerica9011]

Tobacco is a better investment than electric vehicles; people are addicted to cigarettes, but not to electric vehicles.😂

[@878Docto]

Does the president's fleet have EV cars?

[@themonsterunderyourbed9408]

I don't see why that matters. It could or couldn't.

[@ChristopherLoupe-hh6bj]

Because ESG scores aren’t about anything other than naked power and control.

[@johnb7794]

Thomas Massie is the man

[@parkerpkthn]

ESG demand management is nonsensical

[@cococali6589]

No they followed along bc their “image” they think matters. The f*ing PRODUCT should be center stage!! #makefreeenterprisefreeagain

[@sennlich]

catch them all this time. PLEASE

[@douglindberg1547]

I don't know i'm sooooo sick of these experts that don't know anything.

[@Maxaker]

How an ESG score is generated should be transparent.

[@ebewarrior]

Thomas is the man

[@Pehz63]

Nobody seems to understand what ESG is and they just assume it's a moral grading system and not a financial grading system, even though it's always been used in the financial investment context. ESG has never intended to score companies on their moral values, or real environmental impact. It has always intended to score companies on how likely they are to violate laws and get punished for that. If you have an oil company that obeys every law but still harms environment, then it gets a high ESG score because it has low risk. If you have a green energy company that breaks a lot of laws and isn't unionized, then it gets a low ESG score because there's a high risk of that company getting a fine or otherwise punished. The problem is that people conflated "conforms to environmental regulation" with "good for environment". But when you point this out, everyone realizes it's obvious that the regulation is insufficient and often counterproductive for the actual goals of minimizing environmental harm.

[@Pehz63]

Using this logic, the reason Tesla has a lower ESG is because Tesla is not unionized, which is causing a lot of backlash especially in Europe. Tesla also benefits a lot from EV subsidies which are fickle. Recently the new Model 3 stopped being eligible for the $7500 tax credit, which is a significantly bad thing for Tesla financially. I don't know anything about the tobacco company, but I highly doubt they have similar issues based on their high ESG score.

[@youdidntbuildthat47]

@@Pehz63 👈😂 you’re wrong. the only Model 3 that doesn’t qualify for the EV tax credit is the rear wheel drive variant (the cheapest of the three variants) because it uses battery cells from CATL, a Chinese battery producer. The Model 3 Performance and Long-Range do not use CATL battery cells. If you simply go to Tesla’s site and pretend as if you’re going to order a Model 3, you’ll see that the two aforementioned variants get the point of sale $7500 EV tax credit. Typical leftist … spreading misinformation.

[@youdidntbuildthat47]

@@Pehz63 👈😂 ESG = “Environmental, Social, Governance anyone with a frontal lobe knows ESG scores companies on metrics involving said company’s adherence to DEI, inclusivity of the 🌈 community - even to the point of providing for gender neutral bathrooms, internal policies and practices related to 🌈 issues, none of which have 💩 to do with the profitability of a company. Tell us you don’t understand the falsehoods about ESG/DEI without telling us.

[@Pehz63]

@@youdidntbuildthat47 I'm not wrong, I'm right. When the Model 3 was refreshed, the only 2 trims were short range and long range. Neither were eligible for the tax credit. Later, the performance trim came out and it was eligible. Only later did Tesla announce that the LR was eligible again. So yes, at some point recently the Model 3 was ineligible for the tax credit. Even today (as you pointed out) the standard range trim is still ineligible for the tax credit. Everything you just said confirms my core point. The EV subsidies are fickle. So fickle in fact that you just agreed with me that Tesla's Model 3 went out and back into eligibility in a matter of months. We saw the same thing happen last year. We'll see a similar thing happen next year. EV subsidies are fickle. Anyone who believes me will know to check at the time of their purchase.

[@youdidntbuildthat47]

@@Pehz63 👈😂 crickets 🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗

[@interman7715]

This is pure evil.

[@ObiePaddles]

How can a company that’s products kill its customers is rated high on anything other than the penal code.

[@JermaineMarcus]

Can somebody sue these firms showing how their collusion in mandating ESG has posed significant harm to the finances of us normal Americans?

[@automatemefirst]

That’s the funniest damn thing I’ve ever heard!

[@davidwilkie9551]

Wonder of wonders..

[@romanyrose4074]

Does Congress ever get a straight answer from any of these hearings?

[@amodernshaman4464]

You cannot have dei and spaceships. You cant even have dei and airplanes. Do you all know about Cargo Cults?

[@thefance4708]

Stronger example would have been South Africa.

[@randomxnp]

"We make investment decisions based on factors which we cannot judge because we have no idea how they are calculated" There, a translation for anyone whose prosperity is dependent on this buffoon's judgement or that of anyone in his company.

[@rep4irm4nman47]

Thomas Massie for President

[@mp-xt2rg]

They had this hearing and then did nothing. Because that's what they do.