Alabama Supreme Court's Frozen Embryo Ruling Explained: Impact On IVF, Parents, & Stem Cell Research

[@charlesbrightman4237]

Okay: Per Alabama's Supreme Court: Embryo's are 'children'. a. Were all those children entered into the US census? If not, why not? b. What about tax write-off for parents that have 'children'? c. What about all the social services available for 'children'? d. What about all the parental support required for those 'children'? * It appears that the Alabama Supreme Court has opened up a can of 'embryonic children'. QUESTION: Why do we have politicians and Supreme Court Justices who do not understand science and biology?

[@charlesbrightman4237]

QUESTION: Are they then conducting 'human trafficing of children' and/or 'child exploitation'?

[@targgthewise2892]

Well, we do have one that couldn’t define woman….. soooo?

[@charlesbrightman4237]

@@targgthewise2892 Well consider the following: Modern science claims that all matter is made up of quarks, electrons and interacting energy. 'Humans' are made up of matter and interacting energy. Do 'Humans' even actually exist OR do only quarks, electrons and interacting energy exist as 'humans'?

[@targgthewise2892]

@@charlesbrightman4237 male and female. Full stop. Prove me wrong.

[@charlesbrightman4237]

@@targgthewise2892 What is an embryo before it has it's private parts?

[@tdsoldier3198]

This is one of the stupidest rulings a court has ever made.

[@-TheOracle-]

Youy mean Red court ruling. Time to start a Froster Care Program for all the unwanted frosties!

[@luciedvorakova2167]

I think it is reasonable to expect that a contraception ban will come next. And after that, striping women of their voting right is the next logical step... If American women and men don't want this scenario, they should really consider who are they voting now.

[@pithagorian4394]

Why would you think women woyld need to lose their rights for us to protect unborn children

[@luciedvorakova2167]

@@pithagorian4394 Well, how do you keep a ban on contraception and abortion if women can vote? Of course majority of women is opposing such things because not only it violates their body autonomy. It also endangers their life because sometimes to save woman's life you have to do an abortion, and sometimes woman needs hormonal contraception in order to treat for example endometriosis. So logically you strip women of their voting right...

[@rachaelj7865]

@@pithagorian4394Because making medical decisions for yourself is a right. Whatever your belief on fetuses, some abortions are absolutely necessary for the health of the person pregnant, such as in the case of ectopic pregnancies. Similarly, contraceptives can be used to prevent a pregnancy in someone who couldn’t safely carry one or to treat conditions such as endometriosis and PMDD.

[@pithagorian4394]

@@rachaelj7865 life saving operarions such as that are not legally defined as abortion in any state where abortion is illegal so i dont see how thats relevant

[@sweetsugarjones]

@@natalybailey820Most people did not agree to make abortion illegal. Conservative legislators took it upon themselves and have even had their laws overturned by the voting populous in a few states. The god guns and maga crowd are a minority who want you to believe otherwise for the sake of power.

[@opm8191]

The validity of a ruling should be determined by the application of evidence and facts, not by invoking references to an unproved deity. Judges ought to base their conclusions on tangible and verifiable information, and arguments centered around gods lack the foundation of any empirical evidence or factual support. This ruling should be invalidated on the spot. we need judges, not bigots.

[@ajay.gillig]

As a catholic and I guess republican, this is the dumbest shit I've heard. (Not your comment, just the situation in Alabama)

[@OmniMale]

As an atheist and a republican, God is not needed to behave morally. Try again.

[@rosemariebredahl9519]

How will this effect the insurance rates & thus customer costs for storing embryos? How does it effect the "morning after" pill(s)? What is the law re treatment of a "corpse" now, since some late periods are spontaneous abortions? If a patient has an ectopic pregnancy, do Dr.s have to handle the embryo differently? What effect does this have on early abortions? What do folks do with "extra"/ unused frozen embryos? The precedent set by considering embryos to be human beings are far reaching!

[@Time_Is_Left]

I think it would have to impact all of that and more. Another example, how could you NOT investigate every miscarriage as a possible homicide? The potential for malicious compliance on this boggles the mind.

[@mattt9187]

You will be required to implant every embryo or it is murder.

[@lazyartist7682]

There are other issues that may need to be considered because of this ruling. 1. Is a restaurant owner liable for serving alcohol to a pregnant woman even if she didn’t know she was pregnant? Does this mean women should show a negative pregnancy test before being served any alcohol? 2. Coffee has been scientifically proven to be harmful to the embryo. Do women also have to show a negative pregnancy test before being served coffee? Caffeine is the main culprit in harming the embryo and caffeine is also present in tea, chocolate, soft drinks and other foodstuff. 3. How about pregnant women who have breast cancer or any cancer? Can they get treatment even if it will most probably harm if not kill the embryo? Any medical treatment on a pregnant woman will have to be reviewed to make sure it doesn’t affect the embryo. 4. Can pregnant women (at any trimester including first) still become nurses (exposing the embryo/child to harm) or police officers? 5. Driving can be very stressful for the embryo. Can pregnant women drive? So many unintended consequences from this ruling. 😂😮

[@pithagorian4394]

The mother in all of those cases is choosing to consume those things. The person who serves them or sells it to them is not responsibke for what they consume. This case is entirely different. An employee who was apparently in an area they were not allowed attempted to handle something they were not equipped properly to handle resulting in the death of living human embryos. Therefore the failure in this case is from the clinic not properly protecting the restricted area and the employee atempting to handle something theu were not meant to be without the proper care and protective equipment.

[@lazyartist7682]

@@pithagorian4394 Presently, the law will prosecute an establishment that sells alcohol to minors even if the seller didn’t know they were minors. To resolve the issue of determining the age of the patron, the seller usually requests for an ID which would state their age. Similarly, if a restaurant serves alcohol to a pregnant woman who does not disclose her pregnancy, the restaurant can still be held liable for serving alcohol to an embryo/minor. The best way to resolve this problem for restaurants is for them to ask for a pregnancy test before serving alcohol. Otherwise, the government of Alabama can close their business.

[@OmniMale]

You should look at the 2004 unborn victims of violence act.

[@-TheOracle-]

Time to start a Froster Care Program for all the unwanted frosties!

[@brentmiller2256]

I, for one, don't waste any Frosty's.

[@SweetCinnamonAlmond]

So they filed a suit to get paid out by the fertility clinic, and now they will likely not be able to get IVF in that state at all anymore.

[@user-vd2jk7dl3p]

No one has outlawed ivf. They can still get it. The ruling is about the negligence of the clinic.

[@SweetCinnamonAlmond]

@@user-vd2jk7dl3p I never said they did, but at the rate more fertility practices are starting to suspend their services, the same effect would be seen. These places aren't on every corner. Take a moment and think about it.

[@joemillz10]

@@user-vd2jk7dl3p No IVF provider in their right mind would continue IVF services after this ruling. There is too much uncertainty about what could land their employees in prison.

[@roseanneroseannadanna9651]

@@user-vd2jk7dl3p nobody cares about that part of the story. Just the headline! Just like Roe v Wade, it doesn't outlaw abortion or criminalize it, it just put the burden back to the states. And I am fine with that. Just like I'd be fine with getting rid of the federal dept of education and it's union and put education back to the states!

[@ecclairmayo4153]

While I can appreciate that these couples should have been able to bring a lawsuit against the lab...it should not have been a wrongful death suit. They lost their property.

[@denesechavez5581]

True maybe should have a lock on the door so random people can't get into freezer

[@ecclairmayo4153]

@denesechavez5581 - I agree. Maybe a lock or a codd that only authorized employees can enter. Maybe some security especially since this is a very emotional type of business.

[@bevjaugustin]

Thank you for this video! Conversations like these are important.

[@anitaroth6942]

Yes this is a politically motivated decision.

[@dmaze8457]

Poor bleeding Alabama. Doesn’t that state already suffer enough through various parameters that have it last to near last in the national without this latest embarrassment by its state Supreme Court?

[@hyperbunnygirl101]

Religion should NEVER BE IN POLITICS. Biology AND science should be the ONLY FACTORS.

[@pithagorian4394]

Im not religious and I agree life begins at conception. My parents are also not religious so my opinion is based on my reasoning, and I think its a conclusion that is fairly obvious

[@hyperbunnygirl101]

@pithagorian4394 if you are not religious then what is your opinion based off of?

[@pithagorian4394]

@@hyperbunnygirl101 its just an observable fact that when an egg and sperm meet they create a new and separate life from the mother meaning that life begins at conception and since that is the case we cannot just decide to end that life

[@hyperbunnygirl101]

@pithagorian4394 yet is life something that can live on its own? Is a tumor life in your view? These are cells that can't even be seen with the naked eye, how is that life? In my view anything that can not survive without a host body is not life

[@hyperbunnygirl101]

@pithagorian4394 but it's not simple. Science isn't simple. Beliefs are simple.. Im just asking what makes your reasoning different from religion. Is it based in fact, or is it based in pure beliefs.

[@tomlakosh1833]

The IVF clinics in Alabama should surrender their Dewer's bottles to the nearest fire station using their Infant Safe Haven Boxes so the governor can stuff the preserved humans.

[@sandranogueira8525]

Can you take life insurance out on an embryo?

[@Time_Is_Left]

And shouldn’t every miscarriage get a death investigation?

[@pithagorian4394]

Just because fetuses dont have some legal rights doesnt mean they have none. Im surr youve heard this before but it is in fact illegal to kill a baby in the womb such as in the case of late term intentional miscarriage and assaulting a pregnant womans stomach. There are particular laws around both of these cases which assume that the embryo has some right to life and against harm.

[@Time_Is_Left]

@@pithagorian4394 Shouldn’t every miscarriage get an investigation? Most miscarriages happen without the awareness of the mother, is desecration of a corpse something you care about? When will you be available to let us all know what rights we have and do not have? There are many implications for what is being said here that only have to do with personhood, which is what we’re actually talking about

[@pithagorian4394]

@@Time_Is_Left well investigations and autopsies are only performed when there is suspicion of foul play or if the death occurs in an unexpected way, and since miscarriage is a natural, common phenomenon there is no reason legal or otherwise for every miscarriage to be investigated

[@OmniMale]

​@@pithagorian4394the unborn child violence act.of 2004. For 20 years they have locked people up due to a fetuses person status...now it's not a person. Liberals can't keep their ideas striaght.

[@seanm2047]

I love seeing Maggie freak out about this knowing damn well that herself and other scam journalist at fbn have created the environment where this occurs. "Oh no! We didn't know that pushing right wing culture war stuff would have consequences for us!" -Maggie probably

[@creyes4182]

Hope the money is worth it. I wouldn’t be surprised if the family was blacklisted.

[@MrBeast-1]

I dont think Jesus even knew what an embyro is haha.

[@kennybachman35]

That’s not a real person.

[@joshuaerickson2458]

Wait who fertilized Mary's eggs? Without fertilization Jesus never was a person right?

[@DorothySanders-q2q]

Are you talking about Christ JESUS of Nazareth who created us ALL in the womb, to grow into either a man or a woman? Are you referring to Christ JESUS of Nazareth who holds your very last breath in HIS Hand? Are you referring to Christ JESUS of Nazareth who formed you in the womb, then brought you forth into HIS land? Are you talking about Christ JESUS of Nazareth, whose Grace and Mercy interceded, not allowing murder through abortion to strip you from the womb by man? Are you referring to Christ JESUS of Nazareth who is the strength that allows you to stand? Are you talking about the same Christ JESUS of Nazareth, before whom ALL creation, soon-and-very-soon, will stand! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

[@marydlutes1792]

Yes. That Jesus Christ.

[@kennybachman35]

@@marydlutes1792 no such person.

[@williamkelly1818]

Hip Hip Hooray Alabama. These are all precious unborn children created by Jehovah God.

[@scottcharney1091]

That's what the anti-choicers always say: "Embryos are babies." A few of them do in fact oppose IVF, and at least they're being consistent. Do the anti-choicers really want to save embryos, or do they just want to punish people for having sex?

[@OmniMale]

We want people to take accountability for their actions. Especially since we're talking the next generations of humans.

[@scottcharney1091]

@@OmniMale Having an abortion is one way to take accountability. Note that the biggest reason for the steep drop in the abortion rate is due to fewer pregnancies to begin with.

[@torturedsoul8066]

The Court held that basic rights listed in amendments to the constitution must be supported with the history and traditions of this nation in mind. This case asks what happens when this type of situation has never occurred in our history as it is a result of modern advancements in medical technology that brings the case before the Court. So what metrics apply to this type of situation?

[@OmniMale]

​@@natalybailey820can't have it both easy. I direct you to the unborn victims of violence act of 2004. So you're fine with l People being imprisoned because the fetus has rights but this is a no. I swear, liberals have such strange beliefs.

[@mdl8210]

Dear God, people sue and ruin everything good for other people. Tragic.

[@DisandDat-ht5os]

I'm going to check my wife for embryos, this clearly means you can claim them on your taxes. Thanks GQP deplorables!

[@bijbelevangelisatie4023]

Very right decision. The amount of babies murdered/discarded in IVF could be similar to the amount murdered in abortion. But few speak up for those babies. LORD HAVE MERCY!

[@jenniwolf]

Maybe "the Lord" never meant for them to have children and frozen embryos shouldn't exist. 🤔 Should IVF be banned now ..

[@maverick4022]

The US is apparently "The Wild West" in terms of the Invitro Industry. The # of embryos allowed to be produced and how many can be frozen is way more than other social democracies allow. In Europe, for example, there are far stricter rules regarding the #'s allowed to be produced and stored. In Italy, embryos must be implanted immediately, and they aren't allowed to keep any frozen. So, in a way, it is good that some ethical standards be brought in.

[@justinpaone2227]

the two are very different, however i would argue the non fertility clinic child while not the same, is replaceable. if this was these parents last ditch effort, its very likely, they cannot just simply make more, which in a way does make the ebryos more valuable. putting a value on any of this is sad, but its the reality we live in.

[@KDozie]

Suing the fertility clinic for negligence civilly is one thing. Saying embryos as children and suing for wrongful death is ridiculous. Preventing other Alabamians from having children because of a terrible mishap during your own fertility experience is just cruel. The families who brought this case should be ashamed of themselves.

[@terryfox5666]

Bull! If they are considered minors then freezing them is child abuse!

[@thisisfrusfratingyo]

So if parents divorce or couples split up, can they file for child support? If parents don't visit their embryos daily, can they be charged for child neglect. Or can they be charged for child abuse cuz kids are frozen. Can couples be forced to unfreeze the embros and raise them? So now a family has 100 childrens. Cam they live im a subzidized mansion cuz of all the rooms needed. Will this be state run housing? Supreme court justices, good job over turning Roe vs Wade. I see you're qualified medical doctors and legislator as well.

[@JamesDavid-yt4ec]

Start the process in Alabama? "voluntary manslaughter" ... wtf?

[@lyanna0330]

Should have not messed with the embryos in the first place! That could be the couple last chance at having kids

[@misanthropicmusings4596]

Genius, that is not the point.

[@CKPill]

That was their last chance what company would ever help them after this lawsuit

[@ginaphillips2180]

​@@CKPillthat's the whole point there is no other chance. The clinic was negligent and ended their chance.

[@CKPill]

@ginaphillips2180 Usually, they could have harvested more eggs. Hard to feal Sorry for their loss when they screwed over every other couple that needs that type of assitance in Taliban Alabama.

[@stringedaz]

I hope every doctor in that whole state leaves because of this moronic ruling.

[@genahebert5635]

How many people have actually read the SB159 😮It is not about abortion. Ignorance reasly abounds

[@HOHLfmly]

Really. They should work to remove a stupid religious right judge. Separation of church and state. That Judge violated the Johnson Act!

[@patriciajump9511]

Mother Nature ends way more embryos than people do. On a monthly basis, Mother Nature speaks, and says to countless women, "Whoosh, whoosh, nope, not that one, not that early embryo, please keep waiting." That's God talking. That's how God sends us babies. And God is fine with IVF and all the details involved, too. Please get out of God's way at the IVF clinics. He wants to grant people more babies, and he's proud of mankind's scientific focus to fulfill his wishes 💖

[@brentmiller2256]

Does the Alabama Supreme Court have a rule on how long extra embryos can remain frozen until they have to be trafficked to other people than the real mother?

[@filrabat1965]

I'll try to strike a balance here. At the end of the day, if something isn't feeling pain, nor has a concept of death, then it's difficult to see how it can have any moral standing. That's definitely the case for a lack of pain-sensing nervous system and a brain. As far as I can see, that doesn't happen until the 24th week of gestation. So the fetus has to be that far along before we can even argue whether it has rights.

[@captchompers6920]

Ok me if the poorest states with the lowest education. A third world country.

[@MToya-dv1xz]

Will Alabama child protective services pursue abuse/neglect claims against intended parents because they left their "children" in sub-zero temperatures?

[@joeharris3878]

The test tube baby idea was a terrible one . Doctors plus lawyers equals disaster. Adoption is and always will be the best decision. But it is pride that drives this, that and money.

[@claudiastrelow7959]

These ethical cases should have been addressed long ago 😒

[@vdquery6613]

That fucking Alito is drooling!

[@brentmiller2256]

Is there a "wall at the clinic border" if there's an immigrant embryo

[@jasminek5557]

It may not be exactly children, but it’s biological reproductive life from a human. The whole point is that it will lead to children. I don’t think the Supreme Court is that far off on this. But what occurred is horrific negligence by the clinic too. I hope the couple can still do more, otherwise it’s sad situation.

[@TheBrianRuby]

So is semen then.

[@jenniwolf]

The couple was able to have children but saved the leftover embryos for "later" in case they wanted them. So they were essentially unwanted children and belong in foster care... ? 😳

[@smarterwitheverystep]

A win for antinatalism

[@brentmiller2256]

Will Alabamans be able to get somebody else's extra embryo down at the Alabama Babies R Us?

[@bumpkinskill]

Sweet Home Alabama! God bless Alabama!

[@jefferyyounce5372]

Just proves what everyone else thinks of Alabama. The SC justices must have never attended a 6th grade science or Biology class Bumkin... I looked up what a bumpkin is to.

[@JennyJean.]

All humans were once at the stage of embryo! It angers me so very much that anyone can think that the accidental death of an embryo isn’t significantly damaging to the couple whom experienced the loss!!!

[@kennybachman35]

You’re right, that’s why no one should ever offer those services to the citizens of the state of Alabama. There is no incentive and the liability is far too high.

[@smarterwitheverystep]

A win for Antinatalism

[@CKPill]

Merican Taliban in action. Consequences Consequences. Too sad to be funny.

[@charlesbrightman4237]

QUESTION: Modern science claims that all matter is made up of quarks, electrons and interacting energy. "Humans" are made up of matter and interacting energy. Do even 'humans' exist or do just quarks, electrons and interacting energy existing as 'humans'?

[@RT710.]

Electrons are human life!

[@charlesbrightman4237]

@@RT710. Don't forget the quarks and interacting energy of which the electrons just by themselves would only be electrons.

[@reniaesaddler8632]

Human is a human no matter what age. Age doesn’t determine humanness or life. A two year old isn’t less human or less alive than a 20 year old.

[@Time_Is_Left]

There’s a fire. You can save either 100,000 embryos, or a newborn baby, otherwise all die. My question is, what will you have for dinner after saving the newborn?

[@pithagorian4394]

​@@jakemueller5009because we measure age from birth. How does that at all imply we measure life from birth

[@pithagorian4394]

​@@jakemueller5009famously they measure age from the new year in korea so if you were born in 2010 in korea no matter what daye you were born all people born that year turned 14 on january 1st this year. Not because that is exaclty how long they have been alove but because that js how they measure age in korea

[@embarq12]

If it’s a person, try getting a social security number and life insurance for an embryo.

[@pithagorian4394]

@@embarq12 you know who else cant get social security numbers? Tourists. So now I ask you, what does that tell you about whether they are human or living?

[@lizziehiggs5111]

Alabama decided right. Can't be replaced at all!

[@mmctest]

Sorry folks, life begins at conception, so says 95% of the clinical biologists across the world as well as God. They are life and need to be treated as such. My opinion

[@Red17Panda]

lol that "paper" is a joke 🤣 It has less than 10 citations after 5 years and it wasn't even published in a scientific journal. It's methodology is intentionally flawed AF because the author was trying to generate a headline to support his personally held belief rather than test or examine a legitimate hypothesis --AKA not good science. The biologists weren't even asked the existential question about when life begins as you're interpreting it, which is exactly the smoke and mirrors effect the author intended. Please do some critical thinking before perpetuating bad information. Also, sorry bub but my gods say life does not begin at conception, and since I got like 10 gods on my side and you only have 1 god, I guess you're wrong 😂

[@mmctest]

@@Red17Panda sorry, it was privately done and funded because the "school" refused to consider the subject for dissertation funding. So sorry it's an inconvenient truth. My opinion

[@Vic-Meow]

This attorney, Harry Nelson, has a voice that sounds exactly like Thomas Markle Jr. Does anyone else agree?

[@pithagorian4394]

I like this ruling because. im tired of people acting like we arent killing babies all the time cause thats what we are doing. If life doesnt start at conception and a potential life isnt valuable then I dont really see where that would start

[@ecclairmayo4153]

It needs a host (mother's womb/uterus) to start the life. Without it, it's just body parts that belongs to the couple. That's why they store it in a freezer just like you would freeze a heart or any other body part outside of a human body.

[@pithagorian4394]

@@ecclairmayo4153 i think they store it in a freezer cause its convenient notncause it isnt a human being. Also it has its own neural tissue and dna it isnt like a body part at all. A body part cant grow into a full autonomous human

[@pithagorian4394]

@@ecclairmayo4153 we grow whole babies outside of the womb. It doesnt need a mother also being reliant on tjings doesnt make you nonhuman or unimportant

[@marydlutes1792]

What stage of fertilization are we talking about zygote? blastula? gastrula? Deferentiation into 3 primary germ layers? IVF uses tissue at 5/ 6 days post fertilization or about 250-ish cells - blastula stage. There is no differentiation at this stage into eyes, toenails, or spinal column, etc. Just a ball of cells with the potential to develop further differentiation with addition of hormones, growth factors, blood supply. For that to happen those cells need a uterus. Otherwise the cells are in suspended animation.

[@pithagorian4394]

@@marydlutes1792 Its in the comment. The only real clear boundry between independent living being and "just a clump of cells" is upon fertilization when the two gametes meet and form a unique set of genes. There is no other stage of development where we can say definitively, okay now this fetus has become a human.

[@jpvoodoo5522]

Its not clear whether it was fertilized.

[@rfehr613]

By definition an embryo is fertilized

[@kennybachman35]

Embryos are by definition fertilized.

[@pithagorian4394]

I believe they refer to it as an embryo which essentially neans a fertilized egg

[@jpvoodoo5522]

@@pithagorian4394, It must be. It must be understood to be fertilized or the ruling can't make sense.

[@Victor-it6bv]

An Embryo is not a child. I see that argument all over the comment section. A catipillar isn't a butterfly, but it is still a life. It's technically the same situation here. An embryo is a life.

[@igit_7296]

Finally a court that acknowledges God’s will. We can only hope that this spreads to every state!

[@stephengrice1678]

Just how many people have died by the hands of people saying It God Will. What phrase or quote would you use to kill someone.

[@justintempus7406]

If embryos are people, then couples who continue trying to have children after multiple miscarriages are guilty of child endangerment correct? 40-60% of all fertilized embryos don't survive until birth, and that's not counting abortions. Humans just aren't that great at bearing healthy babies. That would make God the biggest killer of babies in history.

[@wishunter9000]

Damnit lady, any religion isn’t supposed to influence legislation…..

[@igit_7296]

@@stephengrice1678 look, mankind slaughtering one another and claiming it is being done in His name is a perversion. It reflects on the deceptive nature of man, not God. Life is precious. It’s sacred.

[@jefferyyounce5372]

Just proves what everyone else thought of Alabama. Dumb N Dumber.